On Fri, Aug 1, 2025, 10:01 Greg Troxel wrote:
> Michael Tsang writes:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > If there is way which intersects the end of a linear barrier (for
> example, a
> > chain), are you expected to be able go to through it?
> >
> > For example, if a chain has 3 nodes, A-B-C, and a highway g
county (or larger local area) than have a few city blocks that are perfect.
I don't have the time to do both.
The real North America is messy and inconsistent. Europe has been urbanized
and enclosed for a couple of thousand years longer than the US and has had
a lot more time to tidy up the messes in the field - making it much easier
to keep them neat on the map.
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This proposal aims to clarify and formalize some elements of the drive-through
used in fast food, banks, pharmacies, liquor stores, and elsewhere to execute
sales without the customer leaving their vehicle.
Tags: board_type=menu, man_made=speaker_box, speaker_box=yes,
window=drive_through. park
The voting period for the sensory_friendly proposal has begun and will end
April 11, 2025.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Sensory
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Tobias,
Hm, I am not quite sure about the name being support. Not because it would be
worse, on the contrary, it is most assuredly better. Only because we already
have a key `support=*` so widely used. Making this relation support as well
would mean `support` in OpenStreetMap can mean a tag pla
Yo,
Thanks for your kind words! I think I disagree a layer tag should be
encouraged. The main issue when I think of this is layers tend to go
sequentially, without a common definition of height.
If I have a post with a pedestrian crossing instructions
(traffic_sign=US:R10-3b), what level woul
Apologies for the uppercase, I initially typed it in LibreOffice and should
have converted to sentence case.
Martin's proposal is something this is based off of and expanded upon. It seems
the need for this type of relation is apparent.
-- GA_Kevin (everywhere)
Hi Christian,
I'd like to continue this discussion. I agree, lat/long information should not
be duplicated. Ideally, this would exist as a list of elements (each with their
own tag) within a single database entry for the relation (and it's lat/long.)
To my knowledge (admittedly little) of OpenS
> As one of the few data consumers who is already evaluating whether
> objects are attached to other objects (for 3D rendering purposes), I'm
> naturally interested in the topic.
You are exactly the kind of person I wanted to hear from!
> Your approach does seem narrow in that it only works for
Clean-up and Standardization of Electric Vehicle Charging Tagging
The tagging system for electric vehicle charging connectors within
OpenStreetMap exhibits considerable inconsistency and confusion.
This proposal aims to clarify and standardize the tagging system to
reflect current standards and
st Adirondack 46'rs also climb Mt MacNaughton,
which was not on the list, but was revealed in a 1953 survey to exceed 4000
feet. But then the change of vertical datums to NAVD88 put it below the
4000 foot threshold again, and it's listed as 3,983 feet. Four of the
original list also fall short of 4000 feet but are still required for the
award.
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d appears to deprecate route and way names of a
form that are common around here for what I consider to be good reasons.
(In any case, 'description' appears to be an inappropriate tag for whatever
it is you are proposing.) More details on the talk page.
--
wrong. There's little harm done by the occasional redundant name. I
suspect a general rule like what Warin proposes might work well in a tidier
country than the US. Unlike some places, our places and names have grown
organically and chaotically. We don't have everything all neatly catalogued
back to the year 1086.
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nderstand the OP you can hike there. Someone would have to make a
> router that is smart enough to know that despite being legal, hiking on a
> downhill mtb trail is not a good idea.
> Mike
>
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It makes sense to me if the feature is clearly intended to be a
BBQ/grilling one, but the grill is missing. One such example that comes to
mind is a state park with picnic tables and grill boxes where 1/3 of the
latter are missing the grills.
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 08:14 Matija Nalis <
mnalis-opens
to raise issues with the
various editors, since JOSM at least has never warned me of underspecified
tagging on these.
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Another exception in New England, particularly, is that some states
(especially New Hampshire and Vermont) have a non-trivial number of
driveways that are privately maintained but in whole or part legally public
right of ways. In some cases, three public right of way continues past the
maintained p
d `sac_scale=no` for `paved path in a city park`?
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ale." I don't usually bother breaking up a way by scale if there are
no intersections or PoI's along it. There may be flat spots in among the
scrambles, and I generally don't bother trying to distinguish them.
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_
ike me.
Whose definition of 'scramble' should prevail?
Disclaimer. I'm terrible at climbing. I decided a long time ago that I was
going to stay terrible at climbing because the folks who get good at
climbing seem to have an unfortunate habit of winding up dead. I have a
good time Out There limiting myself to 'technical hiking' as opposed to
'real climbing.'
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en't to fish. (Note the adjacent presence
of https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/429194108.)
I can easily see how 'access=private', 'access=fee' and so on would apply
to fishing spots. I just haven't had occasion to map any.
You're right that I haven't ma
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 1:08 PM Paul Allen wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 17:28, Kevin Kenny wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:17 AM Paul Allen wrote:
>>
>> British anglers must be different from American ones. Most fishermen that
>> I know don't want
mapping outdoor recreation. Note that this particular
project is very much US-specific, owing to the fact that I'm building it
from US-specific data sources, and its iconography is also distinctly
USAian, but I think the principles could apply anywhere.
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ag added in order not to break routing and navigation
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e solution must be to foist the problem
off on an external database. All geodata are approximate. To say that
anything with imprecision doesn't belong in OSM is to open the door to
endless haggling over how good the survey must be before data meet OSM's
standards. Is that the path we wan
f fresh water, navigable by pleasure
boats. If someone else wants to try to fill in the geologic details, be my
guest!
I might tag as `waterway=riverbank` (the commonest usage around here) if
there's no good reason not to keep the plunge pool separate from the river,
as at
ing into OSM. I've
managed imports before. I might again. I'm not going to attempt one on this
scale, particularly when I'm not certain about the data quality.
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cause the previous discussion had
caused me to label this feature mentally as, "OSM doesn't want this mapped."
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rendering.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.4601/-74.4525
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.4769/-74.4393
Many smaller reservoirs have artificially hardened shorelines completely
surrounding them, which could be why you thought that the symbology
distinguishes 'lake' from 'rese
derstand it, don't map it." I understand it well enough to
know that as a greenwater canoeist, I'll want to portage around it. I can
see the whitewater. I cannot grade it safely. Here, however, the community
consensus appears to have settled on the perfectionist approach, so I don't
map rapids.
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. I'm not going to change it back. But I'm not going to accept
that the original tagging was "incorrect" or "deprecated". I mapped what I
saw. You can go there and see it too.
To continue the classification of waterbodies, this argument to me is a
tempest in a teapot.
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7;t think there would be much controversy
that the hazard exists, signed or not - and probably ought to be indicated.
The place is close to the city of Schenectady, and many people come out
unprepared for the conditions. Technical rescues are common, and every few
years someone suffers a f
On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:54 PM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> I am not exactly happy about "rock slide" as it seems weird to use it where
> danger is primarily about individual rocks dropping, not about full scale
> rock slide.
>
> Personally I would prefer "f
om) that I'm
advancing this argument to justify in retrospect damage that I've already
done to the map does not hold water.
So, how do we move forward? Dismissing the Red Sea as a mere social
construct is unlikely to achieve consensus. Moreover, social constructs are
part of what we map; we
fix your world view (or the world view of
your users).'
At the very least, document that the creation of large multipolygons for
indefinite features is considered inappropriate, and why, and enlist the
aid of the maintainers of the editors to warn about the issue. Otherwise,
you'll conti
ine -
it's never complete and consistent, so the generalization of the coastline
never seems to happen.
Apologies to the 'tagging' mailing list in that I'm wandering off into data
storage, data retrieval, editing and rendering technology, none of which
really bears on how the ob
t;
>
> Surface has no place in a route relation as it refers diectly to the path,
> not the multiple relations passing along it. Similar for the source tag.
>
> DaveF
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e of historical data to inform our mapping).
>>
>> Maybe we need an artificial=yes/no.
>>
>> --
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tuation was a
stand-alone shared-use foot/cycleway crossing a tertiary highway. Single
carriageway, but with a way segment added to the cycleway to carry the
signed `bicycle=dismount` restriction. No kerbs anywhere.
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On Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 17:41 Volker Schmidt wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 22:16, Emvee via Tagging
> wrote:
>
I changed the crossing to the way we do it in many parts of Europe, i.e. a
> crossing node *and* a crossing way. This was described as an option on
> the highway=crossing wiki page
foot-and-cycleway. I tried once, after a scolding
here, retagging it as `highway=cycleway foot=designated shared=yes`. Other
locals reverted.
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taken root” and after living most of my life here,
>> that sounds about right.
>
> It was I who said that. I don't have your personal experience, but in a
> "seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" kind of way I have come to know a
> group of people on Facebook who avidly hike
faults (such as in the US where
> bicycle=* and foot=* varies a lot on highway=motorway)
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the warming up of a discussion about the words used in the
> main tags.
>
> Cheers Martin
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, but not
> motorcycles, but the tag motor_vehicle=yes implies motorcycle=yes.
>
> Mike
>
>>
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either in a dense
geographic area or along a linear feature.)
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s seen water only in geologic time, eventually disappearing
entirely into a salt flat.
It's relatively rare to find a fan that's still actively depositing
sediment. One example is that Mòlèqiē Hé (莫勒切河) in Xinjiang forms an
enormous and nearly unique one near 37.4° north, 84.3° east.
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73
tion=drive
aerialway:station=mid
aerialway:station=return
would be appropriate.
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uggestions instead of
> explicit tagging?
>
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> l
gt;
> That's true but I think it would be very hard for consumers to extract
> this information (think of an overpass-query to find all mid stations).
> Would there be any advantage in following your suggestions instead of
> explicit tagging?
>
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On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:16 PM Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 8/4/20 18:28, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> > In actual practice, in the estuaries of rivers, the 'coastline' is very
> > seldom tagged that far upstream.
>
> From my Chesapeake Bay example, in OSM,
ates to 'the river flows both ways.' The division in the
flow lies less in the fraction of the tidal cycle than the speed of the
current. It flows 'upstream' for half the time, 'downstream' for half, but
the downstream curre
ime'. Even there, the 'Estuaire fluvial' does not extend nearly to the
tidal limit.
The locals certainly make a distinction between the waters of the
Sacramento and American rivers and those of San Pablo and San Franscisco
Bays, or those of Puget Sound and the many rivers that empt
f the
mapped water surface by one centimetre. It's simply saying that for any
indefinite boundary, there is no single right answer. Deference to the
local cultural definitions, provided that they don't warp the indefinite
boundary beyond any reasonable physical
suggest
that a peak should not have its name in OSM unless someone can find a sign
with the name on it, because asking locals and consulting reference works
is not 'verifiability in the field.')
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and where mapped in New York are unsigned_ref) show
'915G'.
Finally, 'State Highway', as far as I know, is not an official designation
of any road in New York: the state DOT uses 'State Route' consistently for
its numbered routes. Pedantically, there's also
afield, the Amazon is tidal at least as far as Óbidos,
Brasil, nearly a thousand km from the river's mouth.
As a practical matter, given the woes of coastline maintenance, pushing the
coastline for tens or hundreds of km up most of the world's rivers would be
a disaster.
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smaller communities, have significant non-Haudenosaunee populations
and stand on reservation land that is leased from the Seneca Nation.)
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rained from trying to map the situation, not being qualified. (I'm
an Old White Guy with a trace of Six Nations ancestry,)
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On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 4:28 PM Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 3:16 PM Kevin Kenny
> wrote:
>
>> The reductio-ad-absurdum would be to argue that 42nd Street in Manhattan
>> should be `noname=yes ref=???` and participate in a route relation with
>> `ne
me', not 'name' and 'ref'; Sixth Avenue was there
first. (Also see Seventh Avenue/Fashion Avenue - only in the Garment
District; Fourth Avenue/Park Avenue South - the segment south of Union
Square)
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in their own nation, requiring customs and imposts every time
the US-Canadian border is crossed.
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e is /vəˈleɪ.ʃə/,
or Cairo is /ˈkeɪɹ.oʊ/. You're an Upstater, so you know what I'm talking
about! (For those who aren't, the voice of Salli on
http://ipa-reader.xyz/?text=v%C9%99%CB%88le%C9%AA.%CA%83%C9%99 is pretty
close to the local pronunciation, although her intonation isn't quite right
on 'Schoharie'.)
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open to the public.
>
> For example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/378672974.
>
> --
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t; very idiosyncratic.
>
>>
>> > Was there through traffic in the parking lane itself in the above video?
>>
>> I can state with some confidence that there isn't *intended* to be.
>>
>
> I don't recall seeing any. I don't want
e local authorities give me a less ambiguous 'green
light' that it's OK to travel there.)
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tones to build a cairn or natural surfaces to paint a
blaze, a trail will be marked using posts with the blazes marked on them.
Confusingly, the word 'guidepost' is also used in common speech for these,
but I wouldn't use the 'guidepost' tag for them!
I don't thin
y, not the ultimate
destination. Is there a way to give a node ref for what the 'destination'
corresponds to? On the sign in question, it might be nice to be able to
indicate where Wawayanda Shelter is, since it's about 40 km distant. On my
screen, you have to go out to z12
the parapet of the bridge:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/50076407291 There are even a few
stray blades of grass taking root in the concrete.
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the article
you cite mentions areas eroded to bare rock. These values are all
available for tagging a mineral surface.
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. Way seems to get little traffic, even foot
> traffic.
>
>
> Mike
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>>
>> Thanks in advance for your input.
>>
>> Mike
>>
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>
With that said, extraneous data in OSM are Mostly Harmless.
Deleting unneccessary (as opposed to incorrect) data is never
something that I'd demand. (It would be good to request that any
further import from NHD - which would have to be done with careful
conflation - refrain from including the
e aerials)?
I see no poles, no wires, no markers warning people not to dig. If
there's still a cutline visible, I might tag `man_made=cutline`.
Otherwise, the power company might own the right-of-way, but we
ordinarily don't map that sort of cadastre.
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the OSM wiki.
>> I assume mapping a crossing twice is incorrect?
>
>
> I don't know if it is "correct" or not, but the footway=crossing tagging is
> part of the Sidewalk as separate way proposal
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sidewalk_as_s
hat motor vehicles use it occasionally, but only for
official purposes.
The locals near me seem to use 'service' or 'unclassified' if you can
drive on it in a regular car (at least in summer) and 'track' if you
are likely to need a four-wheeler or at least a high
Indian Reservation as
part of its domain. No Town crosses a county line, and the instances
where a City or Indian Reservation does can be counted on the fingers
of one hand.
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Taggi
ts were to be included, the
hierarchy would be broken all over the place. And that only scratches
the surface of special-purpose administrative districts. As I said, go
ahead and map them, but don't try to make admin_level fit.
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ing on it.
In the ruts, I'll see at least some hard material because the soil
around here is stony. (Around here, too, grade1 is likely to be at
least `highway=service`, since nobody troubles to seal a track that's
used just for tractors or logging trucks.) I also don'
king trail nuance
is also not something that needs to inform routing decisions made by a
computer; at least to me, the idea of using an autorouter to plan a
hike boggles the mind! We have abundant ways already to tag specific
hazards and conditions. I can read.
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imple invasion of unposted land.
The systems aren't all that different.
A man's home is his castle, and his land is his kingdom. Cuius est
solum, eius est usque ab inferos et ad coelum. But the king in modern
law may not be an absolute monarch.
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On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 6:32 AM Colin Smale wrote:
> In the UK (especially Scotland) land ownership is pretty absolute. Every bit
> of land is owned by someone, even if that owner is The Crown. The owner has
> an absolute right to determine who has right of access, except for certain
> cases, l
'Empire State Trail (also rcn)' depending on where you are in
the hierarchy. It's signed for all of them.
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I think we're here
>> talking about the way (that has certain physical characteristics), not the
>> route, however people may use them (anyone can hike on a path, whether it's
>> part of a route or not). And if we can't organize paths hierarchically like
>> roads, then also
ke. (I _am_ an
engineer by training. I can state with absolute certainty that
assessing a footpath for compliance with applicable standards of
construction and accessibility is outside my professional competence,
and I am not licensed to certify plans in that domain.) But most of us
can make a roug
' as well as 'this is a relatively unimproved trail'. It's
true at the start that providing such a thing will leave most
`highway=path` features ambiguous, but it at least would open a way
forward for disambiguating them. `path=trail` will NOT accomplish that
goal, because it still leaves two choices: 'this is a trail', and
'this is unknown/ambiguous'.
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odel of the
territory. To quote George Box: "All models are wrong. Some models are
useful." Tagging should be objective, but no matter how hard we try,
we cannot remove the subject entirely from the object. I'm loath to
dismiss a tag as 'subjective'
ho aren't skilled hikers - at least to the
extent that urban footways usually are.
The absence of a tag `potrzebie=*` doesn't mean 'there's no potrzebie
here'; it means only `the mapper didn't say anything about potrzebie.'
Drawing the conclusion that 'th
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 5:42 AM Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 09:58:50PM -0400, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> [Australian grading of hiking trails]
> > And all five of those grades are sac_scale=hiking, which is why I say
> > that's an impossible scale to us
27;re considering.
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t, so it's still
demanding_mountain_hiking in OSM. One of the guidebooks reads. "the
rock is sound, holds are plentiful and route-finding is
straightforward. Nevertheless, the exposure is dramatic, and less
confident parties may wish to employ a rope" - which sounds l
of technical
equipment (at least snowshoes or skis, ski poles, crampons, ice axe).
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73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
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> For now, I just want an alternative for the section/segment/leg numbers or
> refs that are often in the name tag now.
> They are there to get neat ordered lists in tools and applications. That
> seems to work fine, but it abuses the name tag, which I am told is a problem
> for searching routin
ypical SUV can handle. (No, they don't get Amazon
deliveries.) I also don't want to say that a logging track is a
residential driveway just because there's one guy with a parcel
somewhere fifteen miles off the highway, when the only other traffic
on the
On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 1:46 PM Yves wrote:
> While the original question was about a good tag to record the section
> number, whick look like a reference, I would be tempted to answer Jo that to
> know which country you're in, you should look at Your OSM Database!
> Joke aside, such a cross bor
ittle (~10 cm) marker disks bearing the appropriate icon:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/10282365273
Given the statement of purpose, the locals will know what to do, and
the non-locals will argue here on the tagging list about whether a
'properly' tagged object must fol
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 10:55 AM Volker Schmidt wrote:
> There is at least one other scale: cai_scale which is similar in concept to
> sac_scale,but is applied to hiking relations. It's increasingly used in Italy.
The problem with both of these is that they're _alpinism_ scales, not
_hiking_ sca
bit of a force-fit. Here, it's all organized
bottom-up.
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ld of a New York route and
not the square of a Connecticut one.
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wouldn't be tricky at all if
the route were a single segment, like
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3122185 - but why add a corner
case rather than treating all routes uniformly? So I'm of the opinion,
"if it would need a route relation if something else were concurrent,
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