Thank you for the clarification Chris
Take care
James
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: OSM Screen Reading was: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must
get this off my chest
>
> If JAWS or a
know if JFW was reading in the Desktop user area and
> what is
> it? Also, where would JFW write the file?
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Hofstader"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:07 PM
> Subject: OSM Screen Reading was: Re: Vo
How would we know if JFW was reading in the Desktop user area and what is
it? Also, where would JFW write the file?
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:07 PM
Subject: OSM Screen Reading was: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts
The way to break away from MSAA is far simpler than one would think.
A developer can switch to iAccessible2 (an API made by IBM for
Windows) which is a superset of MSAA so they can migrate without
throwing away usable code.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
> I'm not a prog
Quite the contrary, the existence of a scripting language takes away
the excuse from mainstream developers as they can now manipulate their
program via scripts and cannot tell the Access Board that they cannot
do Section 508 compliance. At FS, we forced a number of big players
to either w
Hi,
Yes, it is indeed true that NVDA is the only Windows based screen
access utility that has no Off Screen Model (OSM) in any traditional
sense of the word. On GNU/Linux, orca functions without an OSM but
mouse cursor (review cursor) mode using a simulated OSM acts kind of
strange somet
st a they do for Orca which is also an
>> extensible
>> scriptable Screen Reader.
>>
>> Perhaps others who are more informed on these subjects could add to
>> or
>> corect me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Take care
>>
>> James
>>
>>
Here's my take on the whole script thing, while it does cause a bit of
concern, I certainly have no plans to ask apple to remove this or any
other voice over feature, that would be silly. Admitedly, I have no
interest in using scripting at this point, but for those who want to
try it, go f
I'm not a programmer, but I'll hazard a guess that maybe the issue now
is that MSAA has become such a heavily used facility for windows-based
screen readers, that now it would take an amazing amount of work to
break away from that. So, it in other words in for a penny in for a
pound.
On Se
atures to VO just a they do for Orca which is also an
>> extensible
>> scriptable Screen Reader.
>>
>> Perhaps others who are more informed on these subjects could add to
>> or
>> corect me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Take care
>>
>> James
&
Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
>
> Hi,
> I don't know if this is strictly a script issue, but as i wrote in a
> mail earlier in this thread, i'm afraid that making more and more
> "wild" things with the screen reader is forcing us to u
ject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
Thank you, all for your comments. That really puts my mind at ease. I
was not trying to complain, I was just trying to get some concerns out
there. IF people felt like I was complaining, that was not my
intention. So sorry if it ca
I think there is no reason to ever fear that VOiceOver would become
like JAWS, Window-Eyes, or any other screen reader. I don't know
that I myself have much use for scripting, but it is an option that
software vendors are going to use as an excuse to avoid making their
apps accessible. I
Hi,
I don't know if this is strictly a script issue, but as i wrote in a
mail earlier in this thread, i'm afraid that making more and more
"wild" things with the screen reader is forcing us to use one and only
one developers programs. Of course we should be able to use Apples own
programs,
Thank you, all for your comments. That really puts my mind at ease. I
was not trying to complain, I was just trying to get some concerns out
there. IF people felt like I was complaining, that was not my
intention. So sorry if it came out like that.
Jes
On Sep 7, 2009, at 11:24 PM, Cara Quin
I'd need to agree with this.
It's ridiculous to encourage the abandonment of a feature simply
because you yourself might not like it or want to use it.
As long as it's not interfering with your use of the product,
complaining about it is really moot at best, and detrimental at wors
Hello. Thank you for the explanation about apple script.
On Sep 7, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Greg Kearney wrote:
>
> Well built Macintosh applications should support scripting.
> AppleScript is a core service of the OS and I and other VoiceOVer
> users and developer were asking for AppleScript support f
Maybe it is good I have not yet written apple.
On Sep 7, 2009, at 1:39 PM, Barry Hadder wrote:
>
> I think it sounds like a bad idea.
>
> I don't think that this something to bother Apple accessibility over.
> I think it's worth pointing out that many apps on the Mac are
> scriptable and I think
informed on these subjects could add to or
> corect me if I'm wrong.
>
> Take care
>
> James
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ryan Mann"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, mu
Well built Macintosh applications should support scripting.
AppleScript is a core service of the OS and I and other VoiceOVer
users and developer were asking for AppleScript support from the very
start of VoiceOver and well before the NFB ever heard of VoiceOver.
All Mac application should
Hey Chris, it's interesting that you mention the whole off screen
model, actually I'm amazed that voice over does as well as it does
without one, I wonder if windows screen readers will ever be able to
move away from this approach, I think the only screen reader that does
not have one is N
Scripts are usually an extension to a given program, those of whom
want to customize their own experience further. It's part of the tools
that people use to make their lives easier, and more efficient when
encountering redundancy or other such issues. I think that Apple is
well aware of th
I'm possibly being nit picky, but I wanted to correct a particular
choice of words I used.
I said that some people wore raising valid concerns in regards to vo
becoming like Jaws. I will change that to possible concerns. At the
moment they are only possible in that "anything is possible".
Bar
creen Readers -
can only increase their power. You only need to look at what is being done
with Orca on Linux to see how this can work.
Take care
James
- Original Message -
From: "Barry Hadder"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Sc
;m wrong.
>
> Take care
>
> James
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ryan Mann"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
>
> > I think that if yo
I think it sounds like a bad idea.
I don't think that this something to bother Apple accessibility over.
I think it's worth pointing out that many apps on the Mac are
scriptable and I think it is a mistake to read to much into why it was
added to vo. This only adds to the power of Voiceov
Two thunbs up!!!
On Sep 7, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Ryan Mann wrote:
>
>
> I think that if you don't like using scripts with screen readers, then
> don't use them. It's silly to ask Apple to take out a feature of
> VoiceOver that some people might want. If the mac gets more popular,
> some blind peopl
The major reason between JAWS and its scripting facility is that it
*must* have scripts to function. Just making VO scriptable doesn't
make it any more reliant on scripts than it is today but with
something like AppleScript, one can add some finesse to how VO
interacts with certain applic
nday, September 07, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
>
>
> I think that if you don't like using scripts with screen readers, then
> don't use them. It's silly to ask Apple to take out a feature of
> VoiceOver that
I think that if you don't like using scripts with screen readers, then
don't use them. It's silly to ask Apple to take out a feature of
VoiceOver that some people might want. If the mac gets more popular,
some blind people might have to use an application for a job. If that
application
That sounds like a good idea.
On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:58 PM, dannyboy wrote:
>
> I am in full agreement that voice over needs not to be full of scripts
> to do everything for us. Maybe we could write to accessibil...@apple.com
> and share our thoughts on this.
> On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Jes
I am in full agreement that voice over needs not to be full of scripts
to do everything for us. Maybe we could write to accessibil...@apple.com
and share our thoughts on this.
On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Jes Smith wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am greatly concerned that voice over now has support
I am not sure what people are thinking about for AppleScript since I
have not read how it will integrate with VO yet. but since OS9 one
could use apple script to read out loud the subject line of all unread
e-mail messages. Sure you could not use Alex, but fred and bells have
been around s
Another thing to consider, besides voiceover turning into bloatware as
Jfw already has done is that if you script or develop special features
too hard, you risk getting stuck with software from one developer and
one alone. I don't know how conserned you should be on the Macintosh
platform,
Hi, I agree with both points of view to some extent. If the api
remains as tight as it has been for voiceover, less need for scripting
will be required. I doubt seriously that we can eliminate the need for
it altogether as the very nature of screenreading technology is
prosthetic rather th
Thank you for this information and clarification
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
>
> Hi,
>
> Probably because I was once a VP at Fre
Thanks for that reassurance that voice over will not become like jaws.
Jes
On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Probably because I was once a VP at Freedom Scientific, I see the
> value in and strongly support adding scripting to VO.
>
> I agree that using scripts to
Hi,
Probably because I was once a VP at Freedom Scientific, I see the
value in and strongly support adding scripting to VO.
I agree that using scripts to launch applications from within a screen
reader should be discouraged and I agree that some other things you
mention in your email shoul
Yes indeed Greg. I only hope that Apple continue to develop VO and that they
don't stop here.
- Original Message -
From: "Greg Kearney"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Voice Over with Apple Scripts, must get this off my chest
>
>
All well writen Mac applications should support AppleScript.
Sent from my iPhone
Greg Kearney
Association for the Blind of Western Australia
On 07/09/2009, at 8:52 PM, Jes Smith wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am greatly concerned that voice over now has support for scripting.
> Especially now that
Hi Jes,
I've not installed Snow Leopard yet, but I do understand your concerns. I
would just like to say though, that you can use shortcut keys in Windows to
launch applications. I'm sure you know this smile.
I do understand your concerns about the ability to script taking the onis
away from
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