JCL is comparable to the US Postal Service's terminology involved in mailing a
letter or shipping a package. Mail sending has words like sender, recipient,
postage, postage due (this one is more of an artifact now), telephone number of
recipient, etc. JCL tells the operating system how to exec
Steff Gladstone <05c5038228fa-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 1:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
External Message: Use Caution
Ok. Let me make my question clearer. I am talking about modification
before execution
On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 20:15:15 +, Schmitt, Michael wrote:
>...
>Submit the submitter job (e.g. SUBPRODA) instead of the final job.
>
The OP required "modifying JCL after the job has been submitted."
--
gil
--
For IBM-MAIN
On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 20:52:57 +0200, Steff Gladstone wrote:
>Ok. Let me make my question clearer. I am talking about modification
>before execution of the job-step begins. There is a list (either in a VSAM
>file or in common memory, and constantly changing) of batch jobs (actually
>the key would
f
> of Allan Staller <0632b4c7ca99-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 10:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
>
> Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do
> not click
רָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf
> > of Allan Staller <0632b4c7ca99-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 10:04 AM
> >
requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 10:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
>
> Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz
Since you asked me, I respond: I DON'T CARE.
Personally I would say "DFSORT command syntax". Not even script.
However it doesn't matter. I wouldn't be going to correct anyone saying
"I wrote a program in DFSORT".
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
W dniu 13.11.2024 o 09:17, Jack Zukt pisze:
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Joel Ewing <070400eb8eab-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 9:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
External Mess
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 9:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
External Message: Use Caution
Script … I would think t
Discussion List on behalf of
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 10:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
External Message: Use Caution
OTOH the various GML implementations built on top of DCF ar
: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Script … I would think the control statements more clearly align with scripting
than a full fledged language / runtime that is extensible.
--
Matt Hogstrom
“To achieve great things two things are needed: a plan, and
Script … I would think the control statements more clearly align with scripting
than a full fledged language / runtime that is extensible.
--
Matt Hogstrom
“To achieve great things two things are needed: a plan, and not quite enough
time.”
- Leonard Bernstein
> On Nov 13, 2024, at 03:17, Jack
קֵּ֖ר
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Jack Zukt
<059cd493dd41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 3:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL
Hi
Would you call DFSORT a programing language? It has conditional logic,
variables, it can compute, change data...
Regards
Jack
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024, 00:16 Phil Smith III wrote:
> Radoslaw Skorupka wrote, in part:
> >Short answer: NO WAY.
> >However you can use some *programming* language for t
edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 3:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
External Message: Use Caution
Hi
Would you call DFSORT a programing language? It has conditional logic,
variables, it can comp
n List On Behalf Of
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2024 5:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
To complement: MS-DOS .bat had both conditional logic (errorlevel) and loop
(for) I can't remember dat
On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 2:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on
the fly
My recollection is that BAT had conditional logic since the original
PC-DOS; I don't recall what it was
See "The Sachertorte Algorithm and Other Antidotes to Computer Anxiety" by John
Shore
Viking 1985 (ISBN 0-670-8541-6)
Radoslaw wrote (snipped);
Of course first answer may rise another question: what is a program?
And the second one may rise: Who said that?
However such discussion may lead to in
equ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2024 9:33 AM
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Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
click links or open attach
I could see a way of distinction in this area as something like this, with
"element" equal to something like a "program statement":
* Can not set a condition as a separate element = A command.
* Can set a condition as a separate element but not set an arbitrary (more or
less) variable as a
id isn't right, of course.
(And I'm NOT sorry that I don't remember those details--best forgotten!)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 2:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
My recollection is that BAT had conditional logic since the original PC-DOS; I
don't recall what it was like in CP/M. CLIST, OTOH, became a programming
language in OS/VS3 3.8, as I reca
I explain it as simply a table of things to do, and I try not to use the
L-word.
On 11/11/2024 6:39 PM, Don Leahy wrote:
When explaining it to newcomers I describe JCL as a special type of
scripting language where the logic flows in just one direction. No loops,
no backwards branching, etc. i
When explaining it to newcomers I describe JCL as a special type of
scripting language where the logic flows in just one direction. No loops,
no backwards branching, etc. ironically, JCL’s limitations in that regard
make it easier to develop scheduling and restart management software.
Being user
Hm, I may have to cede this point. It's why I like these discussions.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire */
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Schmitt, Mic
C certainly run without stdlib. I spent a few years developing embedded
systems in C with no stdlib.
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 2:45 PM Phil Smith III wrote:
> Continuing this Socratic discussion, Michael Schmitt wrote, in part:
> >It can't even run without reference to other programs, which are /n
onday, November 11, 2024 2:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Continuing this Socratic discussion, Michael Schmitt wrote, in part:
>It can't even run without reference to other programs, which are /not/
Continuing this Socratic discussion, Michael Schmitt wrote, in part:
>It can't even run without reference to other programs, which are /not/
>part of JCL or JES. It can't do input or output.
Neither can C without stdlib, right? Just sayin'...
--
I could see a way of distinction in this area as something like this, with
"element" equal to something like a "program statement":
* Can not set a condition as a separate element = A command.
* Can set a condition as a separate element but not set an arbitrary (more
or less) variable as a separ
Unless I missed it, has anyone spoken of Clem Clarke's JOL? This is not a
product which has official support.
https://hercules-os380.yahoogroups.narkive.com/6Q2YsqGZ/jol-next-generation-jcl-was-jcl-what-is-it-and-what-could-it-be
"Confidentially doc, I am the wabbit."
Bugs Bunny
Sent with P
I plant my stake firmly in the "JCL is not a programming language" camp. It is
a /control/ language.
Whether it could be considered a scripting language or not depends on your
definition. I'll say /yes/: some scripting languages are also programming
languages but not all.
For example, you can
s a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 19:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz wrote
On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 19:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>Why would you consider lamba to be self modifying? Isn't it just a procedure
>definition?
>
Isn't procedure definition at runtime self-modification?
ALTER?
--
gil
--
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the
> > fly
> >
> > "So, unless it support the generally considered poor practice of self
> > modifying
> > code at runtime, it's not a p
lf of
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 2:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail
Yes, I see I misread his statement
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 11:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifyi
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 2:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
My recollection is that BAT had conditional logic since the original PC-DOS; I
don&#
On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 19:04:02 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>"So, unless it support the generally considered poor practice of self
>modifying code at runtime, it's not a programming language?" is totally
>unrelated to anything he wrote.
>
Should LISP's LAMBDA be considered "self modifying"? Like
ry that I don't remember those details--best
forgotten!)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 2:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifyin
Oops, I didn't notice that Bob had changed the thread name to "What is a
'scripting language'?" My bad. Can we have one thread, though? They're at least
adjacent...
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructio
: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
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I've thought about this question ("can
To Bob's point about scripting languages--I like his definition and agree with
him from a purist perspective, but suspect that a practical definition of
"scripting language" simply means it has good OS integration, i.e., it's easy
to do a bunch of commands, maybe get back results in program vari
לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Dave Gibney <06fb76de82cb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 1:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"?
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 10:42 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the
> fly
>
&
scussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 1:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
I've thought about this question ("can JCL be considered a programming
language?&qu
I've thought about this question ("can JCL be considered a programming
language?") for some years. I usually include it in my list of languages, but
I almost always add "sort of". Still, during my most recent job interview, my
potential boss definitely agreed with me: It counts.
So did it co
On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 10:20:47 -0600, Joel Ewing wrote:
>And if you really need variable behavior requiring complex logic at
>execution time that is beyond the limited capability of JCL, the
>simplest solution is batch execution of a scripting language that
>supports dynamic allocation and I/O, like
nal Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 8:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 6:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote, in part:
>Short answer: NO W
10:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
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Classification: Confidential
OOPs! Exit 4 may
Classification: Confidential
OOPs! Exit 4 may be Simpler, not similar
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 8:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
[CAUTION: This Email
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
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Subject: Re: Modifying JCL on the fly
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may
to manipulate the INTERPRETER internal text
(very similar in concept to dynamic allocation).
HTH,
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Steff Gladstone
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Modifying JCL on the fly
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Steff Gladstone
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Modifying JCL on the fly
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it
I had to do this with COBOL programs. Initially, the person(s)
who set this up long before I got into that shop, had written an
SVC 99 routine (some serious developer type) that the COBOL
program(s) would call, passing it parms. This went back to an
MHTRAN migration from DOS/VSE to MVS/XA.
Bu
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 22:51:22 +0200 Steff Gladstone
<05c5038228fa-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
:>What is the best way of modifying JCL after the job has been
:>submitted, in order to conditionally add another DDNAME to a JOB STEP? Or
:>perhaps adding parameters to the PARM string on
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 10:51:22PM +0200, Steff Gladstone wrote:
> What is the best way of modifying JCL after the job has been
> submitted, in order to conditionally add another DDNAME to a JOB STEP? Or
> perhaps adding parameters to the PARM string on the EXEC statement.
questions:
1. When is
Hi Steff,
Please look at JES2 Exit 4 (There is a sample in CBT File 122) and (SMF
Exit) IEFUJV (There is a sample in CBT File 573).
Regards,
David
On 11/10/2024 15:51, Steff Gladstone wrote:
What is the best way of modifying JCL after the job has been
submitted, in order to conditionally add
W dniu 11.11.2024 o 01:16, Phil Smith III pisze:
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote, in part:
Short answer: NO WAY.
However you can use some *programming* language for that, including REXX.
Simple explanation:
JCL is *not* a programming language.
JCL "piece of code" is called job, not program.
First, I'm
On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 00:21:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>Turing complete?
>
Requires infinite storage, otherwise some computable
functions will fail for resource exhaustion.
>From: Phil Smith III
>Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 7:16 PM
>...
>Does it have to have loops? Variables?
> LISP
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
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Radoslaw Skorupka wrot
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote, in part:
>Short answer: NO WAY.
>However you can use some *programming* language for that, including REXX.
>Simple explanation:
>JCL is *not* a programming language.
>JCL "piece of code" is called job, not program.
First, I'm not disagreeing with you here. But this does m
Short answer: NO WAY.
However you can use some *programming* language for that, including REXX.
Simple explanation:
JCL is *not* a programming language.
JCL "piece of code" is called job, not program.
The job could be compared to a command entered from command line.
Indeed, simple single-jobstep
On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 22:51:22 +0200, Steff Gladstone wrote:
>What is the best way of modifying JCL after the job has been
>submitted, in order to conditionally add another DDNAME to a JOB STEP? Or
>perhaps adding parameters to the PARM string on the EXEC statement.
>
Why?
Must the job be submit
28fa-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 3:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Modifying JCL on the fly
>
> Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you re
Steff Gladstone <05c5038228fa-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 3:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Modifying JCL on the fly
Caution: This email did not originate from George Mason’s mail system. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you re
What is the best way of modifying JCL after the job has been
submitted, in order to conditionally add another DDNAME to a JOB STEP? Or
perhaps adding parameters to the PARM string on the EXEC statement.
We were thinking of using the IEFUSI exit point, allocating a file
dynamically before the mai
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