I would consider a functional language, with selection and recursion but no variables, to be a programming language. Not a convenient one IMHO.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of Joel Ewing <0000070400eb8eab-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 9:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly External Message: Use Caution Clearly any language that has enough features to write the logic to implement a Universal Turing Machine should be called a programming language, since only the hardware speed and memory limitations and limitations of specific implementations of the language on hardware, not the language itself, limits what can be computed. I would argue that any language that lacks the capability to save and manipulate variable values clearly is not a programming language. A language with that capability but without some ability for repetition (loops or recursion) or without conditional logic might be a programming language, but its usefulness would be extremely limited. In between? If you can pick multiple simple algorithms that can be implemented in some form in all the commonly-known programming languages and none of thos algorithms can be expressed in a language in question, then pretty good odds that language shouldn't be called a programming language. JC Ewing On 11/13/24 6:42 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > What about loops or recursion? > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר > > > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of > Jack Zukt <0000059cd493dd41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 3:17 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: What is a "programming language"? Was:: Modifying JCL on the fly > > External Message: Use Caution > > > Hi > Would you call DFSORT a programing language? It has conditional logic, > variables, it can compute, change data... > Regards > Jack > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2024, 00:16 Phil Smith III <li...@akphs.com> wrote: > >> Radoslaw Skorupka wrote, in part: >>> Short answer: NO WAY. >>> However you can use some *programming* language for that, including REXX. >>> Simple explanation: >>> JCL is *not* a programming language. >>> JCL "piece of code" is called job, not program. >> First, I'm not disagreeing with you here. But this does make me wonder one >> more time, as I have in the past: "Just what IS required for something to >> be a 'programming language'"? >> >> Does it have to have loops? Variables? A compiler (I'd say "no, or various >> scripting languages might not qualify", and I don't think anyone would buy >> that)? Does HTML qualify? It has the L-word but that doesn't prove >> anything. Etc. I know people who think JCL does count. Can we prove them >> right or wrong by some objective definition? >> >> Thoughts? >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Joel C Ewing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
