t-system
choice permanent, plus another to remount ro again before either reboot
or handing off to the chosen init-system, as deemed appropriate. These
would be issues likely to need addressed by all/most init-switcher
scripts, so a common solution is reasonable. Of course if the individual
scri
to an eselect module again.
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he alternative should we
have need of it, so let this be a thanks from all of us. It's projects
like yours, someone seeing a need and addressing it for themselves, then
simply making that work available for use by others, that form the
"grassroots" of FLOSS. =:^)
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ncluding that it's no longer
available to build in the first place), that's an entirely different
matter, but then there should be a reference to such bugs in the
announcement/mask, and there was no such reference in this case.
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"
Dennis Lan (dlan) posted on Sat, 08 Jun 2013 19:11:13 +0800 as excerpted:
>
ential devs away. Once it's git, that problem too will
disappear, and there will be less pressure to split off overlays than
there is now.
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packages that they'd
have otherwise caught in the last-rites announcement.
That request made, thanks for helping to de-cruft the tree. I'm glad
someone's putting in the effort. =:^)
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Pacho Ramos posted on Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:19:26 +0200 as excerpted:
> El dom, 16-06-2013 a las 12:42 +0000, Duncan escribió:
>> Pacho Ramos posted on Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:37:50 +0200 as excerpted:
>>
>> [Snipped as my comment refers to the subject]
>>
>> Coul
, etc-
update and revdep-rebuild/depclean, runs ~1 hour, often less, sometimes
more if there's a new mozilla-overlay firefox build or something in
addition to the kde-libs long-build update.
[3] Also relevant, 16 gigs RAM, PORTAGETMPDIR on tmpfs.
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se enough sounding/spelling to, to make sense as having the same
original root (which wikipedia traces to late Latin from ancient Greek).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/te%C3%B2ric
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that my sensitivity needs reset. I'm worried
about the latter, and an example or two (anyone who believes they might
have been out of line care to post a link/apology?) might help me with
that reset, or clarify that the triggers haven't been happening here, but
in IRC or on the blog
worrying about it, because even
responsible sysadmins fat-finger things, or simply forget about them,
once in awhile. THAT's our REAL weakness, and we know it all too well!
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ve to look for something else, if
it's avoidable. (razor-qt? enlightenment? Something else?)
Not that I expect it to change any decisions, but now you know the pain
it's causing here, at least. And I'd certainly be delighted if you /do/
reconsider. Otherwise... well, maybe t
Rich Freeman posted on Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:15:45 -0400 as excerpted:
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 3:49 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Semantic-desktop: Just so you guys know[...] I'm **VERY**
>> not happy with the 4.11 changes...
>
> I believe this was
Tom Wijsman posted on Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:24:27 +0200 as excerpted:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 19:33:53 + (UTC)
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> TL;DR: SSDs help. =:^)
>
> TL;DR: SSDs help, but they don't solve the underlying problem. =:-(
Well,
Tom Wijsman posted on Tue, 25 Jun 2013 01:18:07 +0200 as excerpted:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:27:19 + (UTC)
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Throwing hardware at the problem is usable now.
>
> If you have the money; yes, that's an option.
>
&
will be removed".
---
[1] deprecate/deprecation online references:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deprecate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprecation
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/deprecate
http://www.google.com/search?q=define:deprecate
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ing like
this? In-tree-but-masked is at least available for those who want it,
without having to load an overlay, but I don't see that discussed at all,
here.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program,
ay or even
full removal (I've never used the package and don't have that level of
interest). My question was real: Given the context discussing reasons
for removal but an intention to continue making it available in an
overlay, I simply wondered why the in-tree p.mask option that
clared
in the database, or they'd be declared dependencies not automagic
dependencies. (By the same token, it should catch dependencies for
independently compiled and installed packages that are obviously not in
the database except possibly via package.provided, as well. =:^)
But I do belie
Zac Medico posted on Mon, 29 Jul 2013 01:04:09 -0700 as excerpted:
> On 07/28/2013 05:39 PM, Duncan wrote:
>> [D]epclean now does [an elf-based dynamic deps scan] and will refuse to
>> remove a package [if that turns up a dependency], asking you to
>> rebuild the depending pa
e ebuild to be sure? IOW, are we basically treating it
as we would an ebuild for a proprietary binary, except here it does
happen to be building from source, but with NO changes at all? If that's
the case, then I see no problems with it.
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eve they purchased it
rather than developing it "in-house"), superseding "Doublespace". For
people familiar with that, "drive space" has unwanted and possibly
trademarked associations.
OTOH, the "free space" or "space available" suggestions I saw
either there or in the stage3 that really needs the flag on.
As you mention, having the actual package on the install medium remains
useful, but that's an entirely separate question from what the USE flag
default should be.
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heads-up. I didn't realize -g/debug added THAT much! For
sure I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever decide to build llvm with
debug... and the general rule in mind for building anything else with
debug.
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"Every nonfree program
kmod package.provided, and USE=btrfs plus
adding it to the module config.
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Mike Gilbert posted on Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:32:10 -0400 as excerpted:
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Steven J. Long posted...
>>> you only really need an initramfs if [...]
>>
>> Or, unfortunately, for root on mult-dev
-tracing pretty much blind and that's no fun
at all!
So openrc- ends up being the perfect fit, here. =:^)
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Sven Vermeulen posted on Sat, 03 Aug 2013 18:51:02 + as excerpted:
> On Sat, Aug 03, 2013 at 04:44:52PM +0000, Duncan wrote:
>> I run openrc- because I guess my configuration's unusual enough to
>> trigger bugs once in awhile, and from experience once I do, it's
William Hubbs posted on Sat, 03 Aug 2013 11:57:20 -0500 as excerpted:
> On Sat, Aug 03, 2013 at 04:44:52PM +0000, Duncan wrote:
>> Running the ~arch release version, OTOH, doesn't appear to
>> significantly reduce the incidence of bugs compared to live-git, but
>> the
Michael Orlitzky posted on Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:01:40 -0400 as excerpted:
> Since it was pulled out of openrc, the name "netrc" also suggests
> itself.
I like it, if it's not taken elsewhere and will thus cause problems.
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Michael Orlitzky posted on Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:30:33 -0400 as excerpted:
> On 08/04/2013 06:20 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:15:35PM +0000, Duncan wrote:
>>> Michael Orlitzky posted on Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:01:40 -0400 as
>>> excerpted:
>>&
and have always been called the "rc" system, i think we should
> be safe using it)
Hmm... sounds like something the NSA could love if there's ever a
remotely exploitable vuln. Remote-control-net indeed! =:^(
Never-the less, it's still reasonable even if I like the net-rc ide
eam gnome's forcing it. Were that the case, semantic-desktop
wouldn't be forced by gentoo/kde in kde 4.11, where upstream still offers
the same options they did in 4.10, where gentoo/kde offered the option as
well.
Meanwhile, I guess I know what the kde-sunset users felt like now...
Daniel Campbell posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:26:47 -0500 as excerpted:
> [Duncan wrote...]
>> Gentoo/gnome is simply working with what upstream gnome gives them,
>> which for gentoo/gnome users now means a choice between gnome with
>> systemd and if no systemd, no gn
Duncan posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:27:58 + as excerpted:
> Daniel Campbell posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:26:47 -0500 as excerpted:
>
>> [Duncan wrote...]
Ooopps! That too... WAS intended to be sent privately.
I goofed! Sorry everyone!
(Note to self, change the followu
nger mix
> and match) it makes sense to wrap those into a profile or some sort of
> configuration that ensures they get what they need, by default
++
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eywords.
Arch specific profiles WILL HAVE features/rap as A parent and WILL APPEAR
AS default/linux/${ARCH}/13.0/rap
(Future tense "will", rewording.)
Meanwhile, thanks both to you and to everyone working on prefix in all
its forms, RAP (which sounds really good to me; I can envisi
able between PMs would definitely be useful, but
it's definitely not mandatory, and in fact, given that doesn't appear to
be doable in anything approaching a practical timeframe, forcing to wait
until that occurred would indeed seem to be letting the impossible
perfect be the enemy o
or a tool to 'uncruft'
> logs from escape sequences since many people actually benefit from them.
++
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.
Actually, presuming there's already a python implementation to parallel
that perl one, it's possible the only thing that would need changed would
be portage's default logging command. Pythonistas?
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"Every nonfree progra
Ulrich Mueller posted on Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:01:28 +0200 as excerpted:
> [Please check your e-mail agent. The "References:" header in your
> posting was broken.]
Thanks. Upstream is aware of the bug but hasn't patched it yet.
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onable luck
simply searching/grepping for "error" here. Sure, a lot of packages
build *error* files of some sort and they're normally false-positives,
but it does cut down the search space considerably, and there's usually
only a couple such false-positives to worry about
ink I'd trust it, for the same reason
I don't trust the NSA doing similar things under "just trust us"
pretenses. Would YOU? (Granted, our implementation would presumably be
open, something the NSA most certainly is NOT, but still...)
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asional bisection to make
shallow clones something I don't want to even /think/ about. If I put
the magic incantation in make.conf now, I won't have to worry about it
when packages start switching over.
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"Every nonfree program has
to pay
for the "trivial" amount of space taken by such files, particularly so
when people who /really/ care about it already have the install-mask
solution available.
However, that totally skirts another problem as well. If one user on a
system wants completion and another doesn&#x
hat becomes the default, so
letting them know about it with a news item should help avoid at least
/some/ of the resulting bugs from such a default-change.
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er, 1.2.3 => 1.7.3, as well. Is that
still a trivial change?
Altho I'm not sure whether kensington changed the version number in his
example deliberately, or if that was just a typo, but never-the-less, as
posted, the version number changed too, and at least to me, that's not
th
e
first paragraph.
Talking about which... perhaps making it a general practice to make the
first sentence/paragraph either "notice only", or "user action required",
would be a good idea? Maybe even promote it to a general header
("Action status: Notice only", "Action status: Action required" ?), so
readers/tools that wish to can sort by it?
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he
packages in question means it's not hurting anything, and attempting to
optimize it out is likely to be far more trouble than its worth.
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Michael Palimaka posted on Sat, 21 Sep 2013 23:27:07 +1000 as excerpted:
> On 21/09/2013 10:49, Duncan wrote:
>> In addition to what the others have said, FEATURES= ?? AFAIK, FEATURES
>> is PM-implementation-specific and not part of PMS. It's not something
>> ebuilds/
ifference for gentooers this
time, as it's gentoo that's no longer going to be running interference
between upstream and gentoo users in this regard, and that's what has in
fact been keeping it working for many gentooers to this point.
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ustness
dramatically, likely saving a number of users the headache of having to
recover a screwed up root, simply because it was mounted writable and
didn't happen to be in a consistent state when the system crashed.
(Arguably that should be a (sub-)thread of its own, thus the retitled
s
nes
required by the license and thus the law would be included. And once
it's setup, there's actually little reason to limit it to GPLed packages
or to three years. Just make read-only access to that repo as public as
access to our normal sources, and we should be good to go... it'
ut non-
trivial space requirements, and any way you look at it, 30 gigs of
rainbow tables are both non-core and non-trivial, especially with the
split package and no-mirror on the big package solution, so...
Beyond that, I suppose it'd be a topic for the mirror list.
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;> The way our current portage tree is set up basically forces us into an
>> all-or-nothing security model for commit access - we don't have layers
>> of integration testing to protect users from errors or abuses.
>>
>> Proxy maintainership is one way around this.
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7;t been updated to cover sets
or the @world form at all, so the handbook (part 2, Working with Gentoo,
chapter 1, A Portage Introduction, doc_chapter 3, Maintaining Software)
still uses the bare world form, and there appears to be no discussion of
sets (presumably as a new "Portage Sets&qu
c to lookup changelogs, ept* for tree, and eal for @smart-live-
rebuild.
Completing the set are eup (etc-update) and envup (env-update).
I have a similar set, but starting with k* instead of e*, for automatic
mainline kernel fetching, building, etc. There are git-kernel commands
and tarball-kernel commands, tho I've not used the latter in a few years
so it could well be bitrotted.
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Martin Vaeth posted on Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:17:49 + as excerpted:
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> and the default is oneshot
>
> I would always recommend to put -1 into EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS;
> you can still use --select if you really want a new packa
x27;s fine, because it's
uniquely custom designed for me! =:^) But what makes Unix/Linux/Gentoo
great is that this same level of unique custom design is available and
exposed to everyone, for their own use as they see fit. =:^)
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Michael Orlitzky posted on Mon, 04 Nov 2013 20:23:17 -0500 as excerpted:
> On 11/04/2013 04:46 PM, Duncan wrote:
>>
>> I imagine were emerge being written today, -1 /would/ be the default,
>> and there'd be an option like --select to add to the @world file if
>>
x27;s thoughts.
Meanwhile, I like that last subsentence. Maybe time for a new Gentoo
slogan?
Gentoo: Where doing things differently is the norm!
Hey, Apple can "think different", we can "DO different!" =:^)
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"Every nonfree pro
statement uncommented, because
> from my knowledge this is wrong/you are hiding important information
> everyone should know about:
Thanks. I was going to reply with something like this, but your reply
was far better than mine would have been. =:^)
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d
the certs for their own sites into chrome as shipped itself, effectively
hard-coding them, NOT as google handling its own OCSP requests, as OCSP
cert stapling does. So now I'm wondering if I interpreted wrong then, or
if there's actually two different things being referred to as certif
Thomas D. posted on Thu, 07 Nov 2013 02:00:29 +0100 as excerpted:
> Duncan wrote:
>> Meanwhile, another question for Thomas. Is this "certificate stapling"
>> the same thing google chrome is now doing for the google site, that
>> enabled it to detect the (I think
dependencies.
And similarly, there WILL be more headaches with stuff like
package.stable.use overrides, etc, because by domain definition, that
sort of additional manual maintenance burden and responsibility comes
with the mixed stable/~arch domain.
But whether that's considered "un
;s installation model already involves chroots, so
bugs involving chroots in @system at least, by /definition/ involve the
affected arch, and should be caught and worked out by releng as a result.
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r not.
However, given the above 3a clause and gentoo's efforts to comply with
it, I suppose the whole question of triviality becomes moot.
> At least, that's my understanding of copyright.
Likewise mine. =:^)
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is arguably similar, tho s// regex replacement can
certainly be borderline, but for the triviality test.)
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Ian Stakenvicius posted on Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:30:56 -0500 as excerpted:
> On 15/11/13 06:08 AM, Duncan wrote:
>> [2] 32-bit for amd64, but could be the reverse, 64-bit for x86, or
>> either one for x86-32, or some other combination for other archs.
>
> Well, not really -- a
r. AFAIK
> multilib-portage can do this.
I'm not sure about multlib-portage, but the chroot option certainly
treats them as separate packages, each with its own config, because
that's exactly what they are, there! =:^)
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"Every
e risk I took when unmasking that ebuild. Now I'd be rather more
annoyed if the ebuild pulled a trick like I did in one of my own scripts
a few years ago, such that I used the wrong variable name as the absolute
prefix to a rm command run as root, and said mis-named variable ended up
null...
I w
ourse, with gentoo's inittab, init then simply calls rc, but if rc is
called directly, how does init know to change its runlevel, as seen as if
it were passed on its commandline in top, etc? And what about additional
wait/once/respawn entries? How will init know to take care of them?
--
Dunca
William Hubbs posted on Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:03:57 -0600 as excerpted:
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 07:53:59PM +0000, Duncan wrote:
>> William Hubbs posted on Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:23:07 -0600 as excerpted:
>>
>>> There are reasons to run the rc binary directly; this i
rt of
confusion.
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ctivated. I could try
installing an audit tool and configure it to turn that off specifically,
but meh, just set a syslog filter for it; the effect is the same either
way.
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Daniel Campbell posted on Thu, 26 Dec 2013 22:02:31 -0600 as excerpted:
> On 12/25/2013 08:43 AM, Duncan wrote:
>>
>> I [replaced vixie-cron with cronie] too, a few days ago.
>>
>> TL;DR: Drop-in but for the log-spamming. =:^(
>>
>> While cronie itself wa
ow, gentoo needs to
figure out how to get past that 250-350 developer threshold, and until/
unless we do, we'll "stagnate" in at least active developer numbers. IOW,
it's primarily a social/organizational problem, not a technical problem,
tho as with the kernel and bitkeeper a
ther gentoo users and devs, will find something else to
replace it. But gentoo didn't die when zynot was saying those things
(ultimately, zynot did), and pardon me for saying so, but I don't see it
dieing now, when you're saying them. Instead, the risk of death is if we
belief and follow them now, just as it was then.
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declared by
council to be a defining guideline for in-tree ebuilds. And both those
projects are originally/primarily exherbo authored/contributed.
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heroxbd posted on Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:36:57 +0900 as excerpted:
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> writes:
>
>> Meanwhile, you might try googling Zynot. That was one early, perhaps
>> the first, Gentoo fork.
>>
>> I remember back in early 2004
>
> Wow...
k
settings pre-cleared as "safe" by gentoo devs, who in turn now get the
ability to change what's in those safe settings (but not whether the user
has them activated) as upstream moves things around, making formerly safe
and effective values either no longer safe, or no longer eff
logs simply aren't
detailed enough and it's too difficult to track down the bugs when they
inevitably appear. Git log and if the commit log is interesting enough,
git show , is far *FAR* better! =:^)
Unfortunately, while it might have been useful for devs, git-r3 has sure
been a h
usly and was done with kde
with semantic-desktop, period, but fortunately that migration didn't have
to happen either. =:^)
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ists all these no-stable packages, such that the PM can
(perhaps optionally, I could imagine a setting in make.conf...) list all
~arch versions of those packages on an otherwise stable system as if they
were stable, tho possibly marked in some way to indicate that this
package isn't a st
t would be roughly an update every two weeks, or twice
a month, at which point just downloading a new full squashfs would be
easier, at about the same bandwidth.
> What do you think?
How does this, particularly the metadata cache, interact with overlays?
That's /my/ big question.
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Michał Górny posted on Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:30:00 +0100 as excerpted:
> Dnia 2014-01-17, o godz. 19:19:14 Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net>
> napisał(a):
>
>> Michał Górny posted on Fri, 17 Jan 2014 17:27:30 +0100 as excerpted:
>>
>> > 96Mpo
-right, when I was seeing it below-top,
left, on the gentoo homepage.
Thanks.
Nothing like a real crisis to school people in what was missing from
their backups and emergency-preparedness planning. It's easy enough to
say "why wasn't...?", from AFTER the fact. =:^\
--
Duncan
question, with now a reasonable answer. =:^)
Thanks again. That's a vital bit of gentoo that got stuck for a bit, and
I'm very appreciative that /someone/ is doing that hard and unglamorous
work without a lot of thanks. =:^)
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But certainly, in a thought experiment, gentoo without the stable tree
would be at least as useful as it is now, for some of us, were it not for
the practical effect I mention above.
---
[1] I remember that I tried with 2004.0, but didn't actually get switched
until 2004.1, thus... early 20
Rich Freeman posted on Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:59:19 -0500 as excerpted:
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>> I've often wondered just how much faster gentoo could move, and how
>> much better we could keep up with upstream, if we weren
Duncan posted on Sun, 26 Jan 2014 22:56:24 + as excerpted:
> Tho AFAIK both Ubuntu and Fedora have an arm variants...
Ugh! Incomplete editing! Me ungrammatical caveman!
s/have an arm variants/have arm variants/
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a biohazard
the rest of the community is now threatened as well and something must be
done, thus this thread.
[OK, the analogy triggered my imagination and I went with it...]
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
action-wrap=Chart+This+List
>
> Notice how the graph goes down near the dates the threads were made;
> although, if you would draw an average it would appear to be growing.
Both those links give me this:
Sorry, you aren't a member of the 'editbugs' group, and
so you are n
s lacking with the supposedly stable
keyworded version he'd be using now.
The only other alternative I can see would be effectively forking the
gentoo tree into an arm-overlay, where all those stale arm keyworded
packages can live on, supported by the people, including or even
explicitly users,
above link before repetitive use in the future, and at
least make it a useful sentence, not simply the one word, because
especially when repeated, that single one word really does look childish
and tends to increase frustration and reduce the quality of the
discussion.)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
Tom Wijsman posted on Thu, 06 Feb 2014 11:10:53 +0100 as excerpted:
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:07:48 + (UTC)
> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom Wijsman posted on Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:58:22 +0100 as excerpted:
>>
>> > Can we do something ab
William Hubbs posted on Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:26:08 -0600 as excerpted:
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.dgi?id=487332
s/dgi/cgi/ Try this one:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487332
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord,
f
respect and appreciation for their work. Now, every time I install a
package [...] I pause and think:
"Thank you to the person who spent many hours configuring and building
this application so that I didn’t have to."
End quote.
So here I am. Thanks! =:^)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred
asn't
complaining, as a user who doesn't yet have gtk3 installed and who hopes
to convert all my installed gtk dependers to gtk3 at once and kill gtk2
at the same time I install gtk3 when the time comes, I do appreciate the
new policy, as it'll be that much easier to track what
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