a release check list would be nice
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:01 AM, ant elder wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> ant elder wrote:
>>
>>> > - make complying with "best practices" a graduation requirement not a
>>> > release requirement
>>
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> ant elder wrote:
>
>> > - make complying with "best practices" a graduation requirement not a
>> > release requirement
>
>> This sounds silly as complying with best practices is neither a graduation
>> requirement n
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, ant elder wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Niall
> Pemberton wrote:
>> If there are improvements that can be made to policy/docs then great,
>> but complaining about feedback rather than appreciating that someone
>> took the trouble to review a release is
- Original Message
> From: Noel J. Bergman
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:50:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Making up policy on the fly
>
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > ant elder wrote:
>
> > > - make complying with "bes
- Original Message
> From: Noel J. Bergman
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:50:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Making up policy on the fly
>
> Ted Leung wrote:
>
> > Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > > If we tell you something i
Joe Schaefer wrote:
> ant elder wrote:
> > - make complying with "best practices" a graduation requirement not a
> > release requirement
> This sounds silly as complying with best practices is neither a graduation
> requirement nor a release requirement.
The pejorative aside, I concur that Ant
Ted Leung wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > If we tell you something is best-practice, why do *we* have to
> > defend ourselves?
Who is WE and YOU? WE the ASF? WE the Infra Team? YOU a podling? YOU a
fellow ASF Member?
> > Shouldn't people *know* what the actual position of the foundation
> >
On 21/08/2009, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> - Original Message
>
> > From: sebb
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
>
> > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:15:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
> >
>
> > On 21/08/2009, J
- Original Message
> From: sebb
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:15:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
> On 21/08/2009, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > - Original Message
> >
> > &
On 21/08/2009, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> - Original Message
>
> > From: ant elder
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
>
> > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:32:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> > Several improvements h
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> - Original Message
>
>> From: ant elder
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:32:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>> Several improvements ha
- Original Message
> From: ant elder
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:32:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
> Several improvements have been suggested on this thread so far, the
> two mains ones are:
>
> - hold
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:32 PM, ant elder wrote:
> - hold the release votes on the poddling mailing lists not general@
> - make complying with "best practices" a graduation requirement not a
> release requirement
+1, with a big IF; there are no legal requirements (which needs to be
well defined)
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Niall
Pemberton wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:12 AM, ant elder wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand
>> Delacretaz wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote:
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Marcel
Offermans wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:12 , ant elder wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand
> Delacretaz wrote:
>
> I agree with Bill that it's a good thing for the Incubator to clarify
>
> best practices, and teach podlings to follow them
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:12 AM, ant elder wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand
> Delacretaz wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote:
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>>
Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when
On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:12 , ant elder wrote:
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand
Delacretaz wrote:
I agree with Bill that it's a good thing for the Incubator to clarify
best practices, and teach podlings to follow them even if older
projects sometimes don't. We tend to do the same for
Hi,
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:12 AM, ant elder wrote:
> I think a big cause of frustration for poddlings and mentors is the
> unpredictable nature of release reviews with each vote for a release
> or RC respin getting a different set of best practice requirements
> depending on who is around to r
I think a big cause of frustration for poddlings and mentors is the
unpredictable nature of release reviews with each vote for a release
or RC respin getting a different set of best practice requirements
depending on who is around to review.
Yes. If knowing about the policy means wading through
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> - Original Message
>
>> From: Ted Leung
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:34:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>>
>>
>>
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand
Delacretaz wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are poorly
>>> documented or incomplete, and discuss
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>
>> Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are poorly
>> documented or incomplete, and discusses why they should be normalized.
>
> And how is this PMC supposed
On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
How's this for writing down the rules:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#best-practice-license
I'd rearrange the wording of the second paragraph:
All the licenses on all the files to be included within the package
- Original Message
> From: Ted Leung
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:34:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > Why do we need someone to d
On Aug 19, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
- Original Message
From: Ted Leung
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:06:08 PM
Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
when we can't even
- Original Message
> From: Ted Leung
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:06:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> >> when we can't even agr
Hi Ted,
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Ted Leung wrote:
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are
poorly
documented or incomplete, and discusses why they should be
normalized.
And how is this PMC supposed
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
when we can't even agree / document what that *right* way is.
We who? Robert has done an outstanding job of documenting what the
right
way is. The only people who can't agree to it are people who refuse
to
acknowledge his work on this is
- Original Message
> From: Ted Leung
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:15:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>
> > Exactly. The incubato
Ted Leung wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>
>> I have a lot of problems with saying
>
>> In the meantime, we have dozens of projects who are here to learn the
>> *right* way to build code and communities
>
> when we can't even agree / document what that *rig
- Original Message
> From: "William A. Rowe, Jr."
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:01:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
> Craig L Russell wrote:
> >
> > On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:23 AM, a
On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are
poorly
documented or incomplete, and discusses why they should be normalized.
And how is this PMC supposed to enforce something which might be
incomplete or contra
On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:23 AM, Bernd Fondermann wrote:
Anyone who easily gets frustrated with objections and confrontations
should not be here at the Incubator anyway, that's my advice.
I'm disappointed by this attitude. We should not be giving podlings
a pass on violations of policy. Bu
Craig L Russell wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:23 AM, ant elder wrote:
>>
>> +1. And i'd go further and say while the ASF does not have a clear
>> policy on something that is an ASF issue then the IPMC should not be
>> trying to make up our own, and, we should be trying to shield
>> poddlings f
ect: Re: Making up policy on the fly
On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
So I found it: http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
Please take a look at
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#distributing-code-under-several-licenses
[1]
If this document is not normative, please
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:52 AM, sebb wrote:
>>> And I don't mean to imply that you are suggesting that a
>>> release should be blocked due to that.
>>>
>>
>> Not quite, but I am saying that the release should be blocked until
>> the LICENS
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Bernd
Fondermann wrote:
> Anyone who easily gets frustrated with objections and confrontations
> should not be here at the Incubator anyway, that's my advice.
Interesting viewpoint. I think it was such that led to Avalon's collapse...
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman,
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:52 AM, sebb wrote:
>> And I don't mean to imply that you are suggesting that a
>> release should be blocked due to that.
>>
>
> Not quite, but I am saying that the release should be blocked until
> the LICENSE file either contains a copy of each different licence or
> has
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
>
>>> I remember when the policy regarding @author tags was set several years
>>> ago. Plenty of projects were using them to identify developers.
>>
>> Is this documented anywhere? All I cou
On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
I remember when the policy regarding @author tags was set several
years ago. Plenty of projects were using them to identify developers.
Is this documented anywhere? All I could find was a number of
discussions referencing such a decision
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 17:53, ant elder wrote:
> For a while now on general@ we've had people come along during a
> poddling release votes and raise issues about things that aren't
> backed up by clear ASF policy or reasonably obvious consensus in
> behaviour of existing TLPs. Often poddlings just
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> - Original Message
>>
>>> From: Ralph Goers
>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:00:00
I remember when the policy regarding @author tags was set several
years ago. Plenty of projects were using them to identify developers.
Is this documented anywhere? All I could find was a number of
discussions referencing such a decision, but I could not find an
actual document which state
- Original Message
> From: Ralph Goers
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > - Original Message --
On Aug 18, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
- Original Message
From: Ralph Goers
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:00:00 PM
Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
So I found it: http
- Original Message
> From: Ralph Goers
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:00:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>
> > So I found it: http://w
On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
So I found it: http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
Please take a look at http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#distributing-code-under-several-licenses
[1]
If this document is not normative, please let me know. Granted, it
says "sho
On 19/08/2009, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:11 PM, sebb wrote:
>
>
> > On 18/08/2009, Ralph Goers wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Ant,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't intend to make up stuff on the fly, especially
On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:11 PM, sebb wrote:
On 18/08/2009, Ralph Goers wrote:
On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
Hi Ant,
I didn't intend to make up stuff on the fly, especially policy.
After having been through the fine points of LICENSE vs. NOTICE so
many
times, I thou
So I found it: http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
Please take a look at http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#distributing-code-under-several-licenses
[1]
If this document is not normative, please let me know. Granted, it
says "should" and not "must", so if there is a discussion presum
On 18/08/2009, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>
>
> > Hi Ant,
> >
> > I didn't intend to make up stuff on the fly, especially policy.
> >
> > After having been through the fine points of LICENSE vs. NOTICE so many
> times, I thought the consensus was t
On Aug 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
Hi Ant,
I didn't intend to make up stuff on the fly, especially policy.
After having been through the fine points of LICENSE vs. NOTICE so
many times, I thought the consensus was to put *all* licenses into
the top level LICENSE file. Bu
Hi Ant,
I didn't intend to make up stuff on the fly, especially policy.
After having been through the fine points of LICENSE vs. NOTICE so
many times, I thought the consensus was to put *all* licenses into the
top level LICENSE file. But having just scoured the official public
pages promul
- Original Message
> From: Craig L Russell
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:19:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Making up policy on the fly
>
> Hi Ant,
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:53 AM, ant elder wrote:
>
> > For the recent L
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
> Hi Ant,
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:53 AM, ant elder wrote:
>
>> For the recent LICENSE and NOTICE file issues the current policy
>> allows for the different approaches, different TLPs use different
>> approaches, there's not been consensus on
Hi Ant,
On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:53 AM, ant elder wrote:
For the recent LICENSE and NOTICE file issues the current policy
allows for the different approaches, different TLPs use different
approaches, there's not been consensus on a single approach, and there
are relevant JIRAs open with legal that
- Original Message
> From: ant elder
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:53:25 AM
> Subject: Making up policy on the fly
>
> For a while now on general@ we've had people come along during a
> poddling release votes and raise issues about things that ar
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