Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

A goal and a function is implied by the physical composition of each type of machine. Understand that composition from the bottom-up for all machines, and the rest is a matter of making a simulation with enough physical fidelity. The goals and functions aren’t first class things, they are de

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Marcus, Would require a conversation. The chance that you and I use either of those words in the same sense is vanishingly small. Both Jon and EricC understand both senses and could mediate, if, and when, anybody has time. Briefly, to me, a goal is that object or state of affairs toward

Re: [FRIAM] The power of polarization

Jochen, Great article. Thanks for finding it and posting the link. -- Russ Abbott Professor Emeritus, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 2:49 PM Jochen Fromm wrote: > New PNAS article from M. Mitchell Waldrop about modeling polarization > https:/

Re: [FRIAM] Islamic Enlightenment?

There were parallel enlightenment/renaissance periods in India and China that I know about. I will try to post some references later in the weekend. I have heard about similar periods in sub-Sahara Africa but know little about them. Archeology suggests that there might have been a very advanced,

Re: [FRIAM] Islamic Enlightenment?

I think you can make the case that Islamic people partly enabled the European Renaissance. There was a library in Alhambra (?) that preserved original Greek and Christian writings. I wonder if they were copied by hand in order to make them more widely available. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle O

Re: [FRIAM] Islamic Enlightenment?

Yeah, I thought that, too. But either way, this is the only recent article I've found that talks about how the enlightenment isn't a Western Exceptionalist thing. I've heard some black radicals claim that several other cultures have had something similar at other times and to other extents. But

Re: [FRIAM] Islamic Enlightenment?

It seems somewhat limiting to, even partially, equate 'enlightenment' with critical philosophy as this article does. The efflorescence of ideas, of sciences (especially astronomy, math, and medicine), and arts that occurred in the Islamic world long before the European Renaissance would seem a b

[FRIAM] The power of polarization

New PNAS article from M. Mitchell Waldrop about modeling polarization  https://www.pnas.org/content/118/37/e2114484118Reminds me of "High Conflict" from Amanda Ripley, "The Righteous Mind" from Jonathan Haidt and Axelrod's model for dissemination of culture (by local convergence and global polar

[FRIAM] Islamic Enlightenment?

Are Islamic philosophers critical of authority? https://www.newstatesman.com/international/2021/09/are-islamic-philosophers-critical-authority "All this sheds an interesting light on a frequently asked question, which is why the Islamic world never experienced something like the European Enligh

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

😁 --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:22 PM Marcus Daniels wrote: > I should have known to hide the drugs from the addicts. > > -Original Message- > From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Friday, September

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

I should have known to hide the drugs from the addicts. -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 12:16 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur It's your fault for focusing on reading ability instead of some less subjective tra

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

It's your fault for focusing on reading ability instead of some less subjective trait. Had you focused on, say, tool use or somesuch, then we may not have gone there. ... A, who am I kiddi

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

How did we get started on consciousness again? The thread started with some snark about the power of GWAS associations.. From: Friam On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 11:56 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur Wimbe

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Wimberly's Conjecture: There is no correct, reductionist explanation of consciousness. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 11:44 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > It's no more profound than any other multi-order composition. It's pa

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

It's no more profound than any other multi-order composition. It's part of the work we have to do for mechanistic modeling of higher order constructs. What galls me is that we can talk about it so much without discussing the mechanisms of construction. The details of composing from genes, throu

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Fine, the goal is some composition of functions and it is all interdependent. Sure. Of course. Why is this so profound to y’all? From: Friam On Behalf Of thompnicks...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 10:20 AM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' Subject: Re: [FRI

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Which takes us back to thermostats, intentionality, intensional inexistence, Sober’s epiphomenator, spandrels, and Lorenz’s law: The goal is never the function. If you build a bird that measures competing male robins in terms of “brown stick with red fluff” you eventually get an ethologist who

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Sometimes all you need is a good aphorism https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law or maybe boost it up with a cartoon https://sketchplanations.com/ > I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law lurking, here. > > > On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniel

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Excellent! So we're back to discussing inter-species mind-reading, the similarities between the cognition/emotion of animals with those of humans and the false dichotomy between [in|de]duction. And on that note, I gandered this article while not sleeping this morning: The Hard Problem of Consci

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

A GWAS scan that revealed a correlation for reading ability could be in a context that had a clear analog in monkeys or was already a known signature for more fundamental biology. Then an experiment is possible that may elaborate connection in a knowledge graph. Monkey becomes an astute obse

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Well, both the animal studies *and* those suffering from debilitating conditions *fail* to cover the case for "reading ability". I'm sure some of us would edit our genes in order to, say, make fat stacks of cash by increasing our "entrepreneurial" tendency to take risks. But such studies seem un

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Much of the genome will be conserved across species, so animal models are one way to establish causation. Another way is with motivated audiences, people that will suffer without an intervention. They may still suffer (there is no causation) but at least with, say, gene therapy they have some

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

No, I'm not trying to suggest that gen-phen relations are special, only that the call to *write* segments previously shown through GWAS to be predictive might demonstrate a lack of causality ... a necessary experiment for the hypothesis that's ethically problematic. But more abstractly, as we've

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

Guidance could have been to first vaccinate younger adults rather than older adults? That statistical regularity is predictive of infection and of death. Other statistical regularities are just correlations and the causality is not clear. Are you saying there is something special about gen

Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur

I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law lurking, here. On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels wrote: >Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter! >(Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.) > >Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is