On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Stefan Kaitschick
wrote:
>> 2010/1/19 terry mcintyre :
>> ( I recall a pro making
>>>
>>> such an observation; I was willing to accept his expertise on the matter.
>>> )
>>
>> Any pro making such a comment at move 10 is just grand-standing. I
>> have experienced pr
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Petr Baudis wrote:
> (i) IGS is derivation of NNGS, which is free software (GPLv2)! It has
> even seen some slight development in past few years.
> ...
As tempting as it is, I find it unlikely that incremental improvements
on the current crop of servers / server
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Dave Dyer wrote:
>
> Back up a bit - what's your primary interest ? I can readily believe that
> not many "near blind" play Go on the internet now, but what makes you believe
> a properly supportive server would bring them out of the woods, or that FSF
> would
(a) Much software downloadable from the internet is legal (think gGo,
GnuGo, linux, etc), therefore downloading it from the internet is not
necessarily piracy.
(b) Most of the sums of money I've seen for competitions are trivial
(except the Ing Prize). This might easily change if/when computer go
Mark,
Do you want to try playing with the "-target" option during
compilation of your next version, and we can see whether we can get
rid of the UnsupportedClassVersionErrors ?
While the code may run fractionally slower when compiled for a
previous version of class file, the UnsupportedClassVersi
I have a variety of java implementations installed, and here are are
results for all of them. My archiecture is:
more /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=8.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=hardy
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 8.04.1"
All java versions below are the complete output of "java -versio
Seems like we need a short introduction too:
"Go is a board game played on a rectangular grid, usually 19x19.
Pieces (or stones) are placed alternately by the black and white
players. Pieces are played onto empty vertexes with the aim of
surrounding and capturing the opponents pieces. The game con
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 10:05 AM, terry mcintyre
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I like the idea of a contest to determine the best ways to implement a
> particular problem ( generating light playouts ) in various languages.
>
> The Language Shootout is probably not the best forum, since they require
The topic of which programming language to use has been raised
innumerable times in the >5 years I've been on this list and I've been
backward about coming forward with an opinion because the conversation
seems to generate great deals of heat without much light.
The http://shootout.alioth.debian.o
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> When I first came across microcomputers, in 1981, there was a chess program
> that ran on them. It played so badly that even I could beat it; so I looked
> for other challenges, such as to stalemate it. I was surprised by i
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Hideki Kato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rémi Coulom: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>> The *paper* about MTD(f) is extremely interesting because it shows
>>> that many best-first algorithms can be rewritten as depth-first
>>> algorithms.
>>>
It is great to see computer players taking another step towards being
first-class citizens of the go-playing world.
cheers
stuart
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 3:37 AM, David Doshay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> While the mogo game and result is in the newspaper and keeping all of us
> talking, there wa
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Ray Tayek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:58 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote:
>>
>> ... had a burst of activity
>> related to the addition of new properties to the standard.
>>
>> The properties relate to the representation of common subtrees.
>
> i just dusted off an old
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Ross Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm looking for a nice Java SGF library that allows you to parse SGF files
> into a simple tree, and to serialize your own tree back to SGF. I've looked
> at a few of the open source Go projects currently out there, and I've
Hello
This is just a quick email to let you all know that the very low
volume sgf-std mailing list has recently had a burst of activity
related to the addition of new properties to the standard.
The properties relate to the representation of common subtrees. If you
externalise your search trees t
Various branches of the US government (including NIST) have developed
a very successful approach to funding research. Set up a measurable
competition (such as we already have with CGOS) and then fund research
groups through a series of rounds, with the results of each funding
round being influenced
I'd be very surprised if anyone was in a position to make a guarantee
about komi. There have been some many differing views for so long on
the issue...
cheers
stuart
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:00 PM, George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just wanted to confirm that there are no plans for chan
There is no forum that I know of.
All recent posts are archived at http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/
They can be searched using google by restricting search to a single
domain, a la http://www.google.co.nz/search?as_sitesearch=computer-go.org
The other issue is that the answers somet
On undefined, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In some of my pattern learning experiments, I discovered that only a
> very small subset of possible patterns occur on the real board, and yet
> for a game tree searcher it would be pretty important to understand
> those patterns that ar
My computer-go player is a single pattern system. It linearises
patterns and stores them in a very large suffix tree. At each node in
the tree counts are kept of the number of times the node has been
played or not played.
http://code.google.com/p/jgogears/
It's currently at the stage where it pla
Hello Everyone
I've been working for a while on a computer go player which takes a
rather different tack[0]. Rather than using embedded programmatic
domain knowledge (like GNU Go) or dynamic evaluation of board
positions (UCT etc), it uses domain knowledge inferred from game
records and a complex
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Raymond Wold
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It would be so much simpler if everyone used GTP directly on the server.
> I am aware that GTP lacks authentication features, but it should be
> simple enough to agree on a command and say that that's now the standard.
On Feb 12, 2008 2:10 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Andy wrote:
> > But the program isn't stronger than pros, so how can it give better
> > information about proper komi?
> Pro's cannot give you statistical information on komi unless you simply
> collate several thousand pro games.
I recommend "Mathematical Go: Chilling Gets the Last Point" by Elwyn
Berlekamp and David Wolfe. The book contains a number of such
positions, as well as an approach that allows to make as many more as
you need.
http://math.berkeley.edu/~berlek/cgt/gobook.html
cheers
stuart
On 08/01/2008, Michae
Probably the reason that it is so slow is that it's aiming for a
cryptographically random number sequence. These are usually derived
ultimately from kernel timings (often via /dev/random on linux
systems) and it can take a while to establish a degree of confidence
in the randomness of these bits.
On 16/12/2007, terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Intel makes compilers for C, C++, and Fortran. As far as I can tell, they do
> not make compilers for Lisp, Haskell, OCaml, or any other higher-level
> languages.
Intel also funds work (directly or indirectly) on the GCC suite, which
com
On 14/12/2007, Nick Apperson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> C++ is "faster" than C because the STL (and other generic code) allows the
> programmer to spend their precious time optimizing the bottleneck and using
> a very fast default for less critical places. For a sufficiently small
> program how
There are a bucket load of lisp and Scheme implementations for the JVM
at: http://www.robert-tolksdorf.de/vmlanguages.html
I work in Java, so anything that works with that good by me...
I'm personally a little disappointed that the effort to implement
emacs in Java hasn't really gathered steam.
I've not used scheme recently, but I certainly recall it fondly.
When I we were taught it, the language definition was famously shorter
than the index to the definition of the Common LISP.
cheers
stuart
On 12/12/2007, Peter Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chez Scheme is a good choice. For a
30 is not an id, command ids are at the start of lines
Does "= E3" work as a response?
cheers
stuart
On 27/11/2007, Harri Salakoski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> command genmove w 30
> reply=30 E3
> cgos replys gameover 2007-11-27 B+Illegal do not underst
On 27/11/2007, Dave Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Actually, I'm the main party responsible for propagating this technique
> on the web. The scanned pages were scanned by me. I use this Euler
> technique in my Lines of Action programs, where it is much more directly
> applicable to detecting
Could you give us a quick reference for exactly _which_ Euler numbers
you're using? Wikipedia has three separate ones and the MathWorld site
a similiar number.
Maybe I'm just being stupid.
cheers
stuart
On 26/11/2007, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> After reading the paper on solving g
On 21/11/2007, Adrian Grajdeanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nick, do you know for a fact that a C++ complier will optimize for the
> base case of a virtual function? I was under the impression that it
> doesn't know (as in can't determine at compile time) whether the
> function was overwritten or
On 21/11/2007, Dave Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Over the years I've had a dribble of requests for my collection
> of scored games. The most recent request inspired me to stop
> the water torture by just posting it for general use.
>
> The collection contains 600 professional games with
> a
On 21/11/2007, Stefan Nobis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's not an inherent feature of the
> language that allows JIT.
That's not entirely true.
There are some languages (such as Perl) which have language features
which absolutely precludes JIT as we know it.
In Perl you can have a line of co
On 20/11/2007, Colin Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 1:56 PM, Nick Apperson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 2007 12:48 PM, Stefan Nobis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Colin Kern" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > I think the reason fo
On 20/11/2007, Vlad Dumitrescu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 3:03 PM, Stuart A. Yeates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The logical (but worrying) conclusion I draw from that paragraph is
> > that you would like to see a language with
On 15/11/2007, steve uurtamo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the more i think about it, the more i love whatever language
> i'm using for whatever project i'm working on. some projects
> would be (or are) horrifying to try to implement in some languages
> [the matlab->C example springs to mind], so,
On 11/11/2007, Alain Baeckeroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Le dimanche 11 novembre 2007, Stuart A. Yeates a écrit:
> > Such a metric would actually benefit all players, by encouraging them
> > to play as many different other players as possible and avoid the
> > forma
On 10/11/2007, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Chris Fant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >> A beginner could easily run gnugo for a day or two, get a 7k rank for the
> >> gnugo account, then replace gnugo with an account that moves randomly for a
> >> few mov
On 29/10/2007, Ian Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day guys,
> I'm involved in the development of a very powerful and flexible grid
> software, which we plan to release in January. It is all java based.
> http://www-nereus.physics.ox.ac.uk/ (bear in mind you can't download
> it yet and the w
On 23/10/2007, Gunnar Farnebäck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A potential problem with an XML library is the internal representation
> of the game tree. For debugging purposes it's not unusual to dump
> reading trees containing literally millions of moves, sometimes up to
> the limit of the availab
int boardsize;
> char **Moves;
> };
>
>
> There would have to be some agreement on what to call the names of the
> various elements.
>
> Variations can be expressed rescursively with
gt; particular, they have the problem that they hang information such as
> commentary and diagrams off the game tree. What we need is a new format
> defined ground-up from an XML perspective. Realistically, putting up
> white-tower proposals is not going to be successful. What is needed
I sat down and read the DTD and the documentation and have some direct
feedback on it. I'm aware that the DTD is quite old, and some of the
ideas and solutions I'm going to suggest might not have been available
(or as popular) when the DTD was written. Lines starting with
Referencing HTML in t
I've been looking further at the jago xml format, and for a very
simple game it looks like:
Jago:Version 4.7
19
cheers
stuart
___
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@computer-go.org
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/compu
Much of the discussion in this thread has focused very narrowly on
using an XML format to replace SGF, I believe that if an XML format is
to take off, it should offer capabilities beyond what are possible in
SGF, conversion to XML for XMLs sake is pointless. Possibilities
include:
* A person namin
On 9/10/07, h.l.s.t <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As the theme says,I wanna some advise of how could I judge the
> situation/circumstances?Just like ,How could I know how many crosses/mu each
> player has?
>
> Appreciate for any answer.
If I understand your question correctly, you are asking how to
On 7/10/07, Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joshua Shriver wrote:
>Any help is appreciated, trying to write a parse in C
There is free source code for that:
http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/sgfc/index.html
and GnuGo http://www.gnu.org/software/gnugo/
If you want to do something minima
When writing C/C++ for multi-platform student assignments using gcc,
we always used the args:
-ansi -Wall -pedantic
Literally "use the ANSI standard" "turn all warnings on" and "be
pedantic about warnings." This, of course, won't help with libraries
not being found.
cheers
stuart
__
On 5/24/07, Chaslot G (MICC) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Question for native English speakers: do you think this technique is best
described by "progressive unpruning" or "progressive widening"?
Widening and pruning have different implications, at least to me (a
native English speaker).
Wideni
A couple of quick observations:
In java it's usually faster on modern hardware to pipe serialised
objects through a gzip filter before you serialise them to disk.
Compression effort is more than offset by reduced disk bandwidth,
which is often bottleneck.
"The Orego code should be of use to anyo
I have a computer-go player under development that uses some of these
techniques.
It's still not very far along, however. There are very significant challenges.
cheers
stuart
On 5/16/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To:
On a related note, does anyone know of a collection of games, boards
or positions with moves annotated with their weights (a la
Mathematical Go[1]) ? Or even a format for representing games which
allows reliable annotation of the same?
cheers
stuart
[1] http://math.berkeley.edu/~berlek/cgt/gobo
On 3/19/07, Roland Illig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Peter Christopher wrote:
> Taking a look at computer go documentation, I see that there are (at
> least) three pages that exist in wiki format for top level "computer go"
> wiki pages-
>
> wikipedia.org - computer go
> sensei - computer go
> se
On 3/8/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Regex'like, pattern maching, a lot have been done on
this direction. The most complex pattern db / engine
is not good enough to beat the modest, simple MC
engine.
I'm aware of the challenges.
cheers
stuart
__
On 3/8/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Oh! Great!
Can you give us some info about it ?
Are you using MC ?
I'm using static analysis of game records to build patterns of what
"good" moves look like. I have a compiled-regexp-like data-structure
which I'm using train to recognis
On 3/8/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why do you want 1000 rules ? perhaps 200GB of rules is
better. ;-) (I couldn't get time to try my idea of a
big big big hash)
Stranglely enough, that's pretty much how my go-player works. I'm
limiting mine so it fits on a DVD, so I can di
From my point of view GTP has two primary virtues:
(a) ease of implementation
(b) widespread support and interoperability
Anything that undermines these two is unwelcome.
If you need to do things that GTP doesn't (currently) do, (and i agree
that there are many things that it doesn't do that a
On 2/23/07, Heikki Levanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sure, but not all such boards are equivalent anyway!
Add a stone to the board. Add another stone to one of its liberties. Add
a third stone to any (empty) liberty of the last stone. There are three
possibilities. Choose the one that maximises
On 2/22/07, Unknown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 17:50 +, Stuart A. Yeates wrote:
> Does anyone know of a document outlining the IGS protocol?
>
> There are a number of programs and servers which support the IGS
> protocol, including the IGS server. I
Does anyone know of a document outlining the IGS protocol?
There are a number of programs and servers which support the IGS
protocol, including the IGS server. I am trying write a tool to
interact with these servers and would prefer not to have to reverse
engineer the protocol from the programs,
On 2/22/07, steve uurtamo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree with this. I hypothesize that 2d, 3d, 4d, torus,
> or any other shape is completely irrelevant with regard to game play.
> The only thing that matters is the graph topology.
it is true that the only thing that matters i
On 2/21/07, alain Baeckeroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Le mercredi 21 février 2007 02:10, Antonin Lucas a écrit:
> No need for those difficulties, you can play along this board :
>
> http://www.youdzone.com/go.html
I think this is not a torus, even if each vertice has 4 neighbours.
I can easil
I serialised some very large Markov models (tens to low hundreds of
megabytes) for my PhD using java serialisation. A couple of hints:
*) they can be faster if you compress them (I used the standard Java
libraries). Disk access was the limiting factor in my case and
compression (I got 80% compres
On 1/31/07, Tapani Raiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I imagine that the most significant intransitivity would be would be in
> relation to the bots (principally GnuGo?), because some players have
played
> dozens (maybe hundreds) of games against these bots and their playing
style
> is likely to
On 1/31/07, Tapani Raiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Even if each player's performance is asymmetrical but identical, the
difference of performance becomes symmetrical again. But still,
intransitivity can be seen from results of matches. If one has enough
results of N people playing against each
On 1/25/07, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I also had a difficult time producing a player that was less than
200 ELO stronger than a random player. Even a single play-out,
which seems hardly enough to discriminate between moves, is
enormously stronger than a random player.It was pr
If god is building it, does it need to be in the universe?
cheers
stuart
On 1/24/07, alain Baeckeroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 19:56, Stuart A. Yeates a écrit:
> Since no one has mentioned bounding memory, a complete lookup table (a
> complete tabl
r) would be able to beat a human." (from my original post)
So it sounds to me like most people think that if we had a perfect
program, computers would be able to win. So at this point hardware will
only allow us to get away with writing less perfect code.
On 1/24/07, Stuart A. Yeates <[EMAI
On 1/24/07, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am fairly sure a perfect program would be impossible, even among
the set of all possible programs that could find a move within let's
say 60 seconds per move.
Since no one has mentioned bounding memory, a complete lookup table (a
complete ta
More correctly, a planet aggregates RSS feeds (rather than blogs).
This means that you can add things like the the RSS feeds from version
control systems, wikis, mailing lists, etc, etc
Have you trawled through http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoBlogs ?
cheers
stuart
On 1/17/07, Urban Hafner <[EMAIL PR
A closely related question:
Is there a test suite for GTP, other than using the various forms of TwoGTP?
I've got a computer-go player for which I'm currently writing an interface
to GTP, and would like to test it comprehensively, including the moves that
TwoGTP doesn't seem to use. I'm not aver
Is there a reason why we need to decide, in advance, which of these many
candidates should be the anchorman? If we set up a whole swathe of them,
surely a week of random even games answers many of these questions and gets
us well on our way to a stable basis for a 19x19 competition? Maybe after
th
On 12/21/06, Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Handicap play is a *different* problem.
The rules of go include rules for handicapping.
It seems to me that this implies that a complete solution for the game of go
must include the ability to play such games.
cheers
stuart
__
Increasing komi is much easier than placing stores, but a much weaker
representation of how go games are actually played in the real world.
cheers
stuart
On 12/15/06, Hideki Kato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Increasing KOMI is much easier than placing stones, right?
Jacques Basaldúa‚³‚ñ <[EMAIL
On 12/14/06, Chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you had such annotated games, wouldn't you also need an impressive
> English language parser? Even more impressive if you consider the
> task of parsing English-as-a-second-language dialects.
>
>
I do not understand the meaning of this sent
On 12/4/06, Peter Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The three most important things seem to be:
1) Run java in -server mode. This appears to double speed for no effort
I understand this is largely the old optimize for processing or optimize for
interactivity trade off. It's almost as old as m
Other tricks for faster java include ensuring that, wherever possible, you
use the final, static and private keywords. This enables the compiler to
apply more compilation tricks in more places. Obviously there are places
where you sholdn't use these (think interfaces), but in the inner loop they
c
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