[sage-devel] 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

I know this is a modest laptop, but it seems to be in the tuning
section that the Atlas install fails after 12 hours or so.

Here is the last section (STAGE-2) of the install.log;


IN STAGE 2 INSTALL:  TYPE-DEPENDENT TUNING


STAGE 2-1: TUNING PREC='d' (precision 1 of 4)


   STAGE 2-1-1 : BUILDING BLOCK MATMUL TUNE
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dMMRES pre=d 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee
INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOG
  The best matmul kernel was ATL_dmm6x1x60_sse2_32.c, NB=60,
written by R. Clint Whaley
  Performance: 3776.81MFLOPS (179.85 percent of of detected clock
rate)
(Gen case got 1903.74MFLOPS)
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dNCNB pre=d 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee
INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOGmake -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dbestNN_60x60x60
pre=d nb=60 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOG
NCgemmNN : muladd=1, lat=4, pf=512, nb=60, mu=1, nu=5 ku=60,
 ForceFetch=0, ifetch=5 nfetch=1
 Performance = 415.11 (10.99 of copy matmul, 19.77 of
clock)
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dbestNT_60x60x60 pre=d nb=60 2>&1 | ./
xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOG  NCgemmNT : muladd=1, lat=4,
pf=512, nb=60, mu=1, nu=5 ku=60,
 ForceFetch=0, ifetch=5 nfetch=1
 Performance = 1525.73 (40.40 of copy matmul, 72.65 of
clock)
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dbestTN_60x60x60 pre=d nb=60 2>&1 | ./
xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOG  NCgemmTN : muladd=1, lat=4,
pf=512, nb=60, mu=1, nu=5 ku=1,
 ForceFetch=0, ifetch=5 nfetch=1
 Performance = 1799.89 (47.66 of copy matmul, 85.71 of
clock)
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dbestTT_60x60x60 pre=d nb=60 2>&1 | ./
xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dMMSEARCH.LOG  NCgemmTT : muladd=1, lat=5,
pf=512, nb=60, mu=1, nu=5 ku=1,
 ForceFetch=0, ifetch=5 nfetch=1
 Performance = 463.55 (12.27 of copy matmul, 22.07 of
clock)
make -f Makefile MMinstall pre=d 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/
dMMSEARCH.LOG


   STAGE 2-1-2: CacheEdge DETECTION
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/atlas_cacheedge.h pre=d 2>&1 | ./
xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dMMCACHEEDGE.LOG


   STAGE 2-1-3: LARGE/SMALL CASE CROSSOVER DETECTION


   STAGE 2-1-3: COPY/NO-COPY CROSSOVER DETECTION
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dXover.h pre=d 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee
INSTALL_LOG/dMMCROSSOVER.LOG
  done.


   STAGE 2-1-4: LEVEL 3 BLAS TUNE
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/atlas_dtrsmXover.h pre=d 2>&1 | ./
xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dL3TUNE.LOG
make -f Makefile dcblaslib 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee INSTALL_LOG/dL3TUNE.LOG
  done.


   STAGE 2-1-5: GEMV TUNE
make -f Makefile INSTALL_LOG/dMVRES pre=d 2>&1 | ./xatlas_tee
INSTALL_LOG/dMVTUNE.LOG
make[3]: *** [build] Error 255
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/spkg/build/
atlas-3.8.3.p16/ATLAS-build'
make[2]: *** [build] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/spkg/build/
atlas-3.8.3.p16/ATLAS-build'
Failed to build ATLAS.
ATLAS failed to build for the 1-th time, possibly because of a
loaded system, so we will automatically try again up to 4 more times.
Waiting 12 minutes...
ATLAS failed to build for the 2-th time, possibly because of a
loaded system, so we will automatically try again up to 3 more times.
Waiting 11 minutes...
ATLAS failed to build for the 3-th time, possibly because of a
loaded system, so we will automatically try again up to 2 more times.
Waiting 5 minutes...
ATLAS failed to build for the 4-th time, possibly because of a
loaded system, so we will automatically try again up to 1 more times.
Waiting 9 minutes...
Too many failures to build ATLAS.  Giving up!

real766m39.838s
user686m45.420s
sys 17m38.250s
sage: An error occurred while installing atlas-3.8.3.p16
Please email sage-devel
explaining the problem and send the relevant part of
of /home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/install.log.  Describe your computer,
operating system, etc.
If you want to try to fix the problem yourself, *don't* just cd to
/home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/spkg/build/atlas-3.8.3.p16 and type 'make
check' or whatever is appropriate.
Instead, the following commands setup all environment variables
correctly and load a subshell for you to debug the error:
(cd '/home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/spkg/build/atlas-3.8.3.p16' && '/
home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/sage' -sh)
When you are done debugging, you can type "exit" to leave the
subshell.
make[1]: *** [installed/atlas-3.8.3.p16] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/reg/Downloads/sage-4.6/spkg'

real790m11.981s
user702m18.290s
sys 20m48.510s
Error building Sage.
===
This is on Ubuntu 10.10 Linux that had been updated via Update Manager
and Synaptics Package manager only minutes earlier.
I think all the pre-reqs were met.

The whole install log is about 28Meg. can't see posting THAT (-:

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Re: [sage-devel] 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

WOW, that was quick - THANKS.
I reviewed all of those and while interesting/useful they seem to be
not applicable to this particular failure.

I had meant to say that on previous attempts I had discovered the need
for a fortran compiler and to disable cpu throttling.  Also the
desirability of installing LaTeX, so I did those.
This is a very lightly loaded system, i,e, it is my personal laptop
and about the only other thing it was doing at the time of failure was
running Firefox with 1/2 dozen tabs open.

Thanks again, I will try it all over again.

Minh Nguyen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:30 AM, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I know this is a modest laptop, but it seems to be in the tuning
> > section that the Atlas install fails after 12 hours or so.
>
> You might want to read this section of the Sage FAQ:
>
> http://www.sagemath.org/doc/faq/faq-usage.html#when-i-compile-sage-my-computer-beeps-and-shuts-down-or-hangs
>
> --
> Regards
> Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

Thanks,
I have ads blocked, fairly sure that none were playing any U-tube or
other graphics,
no adobe flash.
Looking at System monitor, barely a Gig of memory is being used and
swap is NOT
being used at all.  There is 4 Gig of ram.
CPU #2 is running at 100% most of the time during the atlas build, CPU
#1  sometimes
goes to 96% at the same time that #2 is at 100% - so I'm GUESSING that
Atlas is
CPU bound and I assume it SHOULD BE during the timing tests ?

I'm trying to find out what the Atlas build errors 2 and 255 mean,
hopefully that
will lead me somewhere ? (-:


On Nov 5, 1:38 pm, mhampton  wrote:
> Depending on what those Firefox tabs were, they could have put a
> significant load on your CPU (Flash ads for example) or used enough
> memory to make atlas work too hard.  It would be interesting to know
> if it works if you aren't running anything else.
>
> What is your processor and amount of RAM?
>
> -M. Hampton
>
> On Nov 5, 9:12 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > WOW, that was quick - THANKS.
> > I reviewed all of those and while interesting/useful they seem to be
> > not applicable to this particular failure.
>
> > I had meant to say that on previous attempts I had discovered the need
> > for a fortran compiler and to disable cpu throttling.  Also the
> > desirability of installing LaTeX, so I did those.
> > This is a very lightly loaded system, i,e, it is my personal laptop
> > and about the only other thing it was doing at the time of failure was
> > running Firefox with 1/2 dozen tabs open.
>
> > Thanks again, I will try it all over again.
>
> > Minh Nguyen wrote:
> > > Hi,
>
> > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:30 AM, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > I know this is a modest laptop, but it seems to be in the tuning
> > > > section that the Atlas install fails after 12 hours or so.
>
> > > You might want to read this section of the Sage FAQ:
>
> > >http://www.sagemath.org/doc/faq/faq-usage.html#when-i-compile-sage-my...
>
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > > Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

Well, I'm certainly under qualified to evaluate your thread (-:
It would SEEM that you were getting error messages that
said the flags to the compiler were wrong/inappropriate (GUESSING) ?
I got specific tune errors 2 and 255.
I'm not saying they don't have some common cause, just that the
symptoms
seem so different.
What little I've read over the last day or three (a long day) suggests
to me
that ATLAS is complex and requires quite a bit of specialised
knowledge about IT as well as all the tools that build it.
Thanks for the feedback, { I had meant to open with that comment (-:}

On Nov 5, 3:27 pm, Mike Witt  wrote:
> On 11/05/2010 11:23:01 AM, RegB wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > I have ads blocked, fairly sure that none were playing any U-tube or
> > other graphics,
> > no adobe flash.
> > Looking at System monitor, barely a Gig of memory is being used and
> > swap is NOT
> > being used at all.  There is 4 Gig of ram.
> > CPU #2 is running at 100% most of the time during the atlas build, CPU
> > #1  sometimes
> > goes to 96% at the same time that #2 is at 100% - so I'm GUESSING that
> > Atlas is
> > CPU bound and I assume it SHOULD BE during the timing tests ?
>
> > I'm trying to find out what the Atlas build errors 2 and 255 mean,
> > hopefully that
> > will lead me somewhere ? (-:
>
> > On Nov 5, 1:38 pm, mhampton  wrote:
> > > Depending on what those Firefox tabs were, they could have put a
> > > significant load on your CPU (Flash ads for example) or used enough
> > > memory to make atlas work too hard.  It would be interesting to know
> > > if it works if you aren't running anything else.
>
> > > What is your processor and amount of RAM?
>
> > > -M. Hampton
>
> > > On Nov 5, 9:12 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > WOW, that was quick - THANKS.
> > > > I reviewed all of those and while interesting/useful they seem to  
> > be
> > > > not applicable to this particular failure.
>
> > > > I had meant to say that on previous attempts I had discovered the  
> > need
> > > > for a fortran compiler and to disable cpu throttling.  Also the
> > > > desirability of installing LaTeX, so I did those.
> > > > This is a very lightly loaded system, i,e, it is my personal  
> > laptop
> > > > and about the only other thing it was doing at the time of  
> > failure was
> > > > running Firefox with 1/2 dozen tabs open.
>
> > > > Thanks again, I will try it all over again.
>
> I wonder if you might have run into whatever problem I had on
> my Acer machine. It's documented in:
>
> http://ask.sagemath.org/question/107/building-atlas
>
> I never did find out what the problem was.
>
> -Mike

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

I would like to try that.
I will report back results (good or bad).
Is there any info you would like me to collect from good/bad results ?
Thanks.

On Nov 5, 7:24 pm, Volker Braun  wrote:
> You can try my new atlas spkg 
> athttp://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/10226
> if you have a minute.
>
> SAGE_ATLAS_ARCH=HAMMER,SSE3,SSE2,SSE1
> export SAGE_ATLAS_ARCH
> sage -f atlas-3.8.3.p17.spkg
>
> or just save the new spgk in SAGE_ROOT/spkg/standard/
>
> Volker

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

I get confused with the directions about running in virtual box (-:
I think  it should be OK and very possible to create virtual
machines, say within virtual box within Windows Vista and install
Linux in those VMs , then go ahead and install Sage on the Linux.
i.e. (Windows Vista (Virtual Box(UBUNTU 10.10(Sage
Now the Linux doesn't have anything LIKE a wall clock, so I
would have to ASSUME that Atlas would blow itself up
on the timing, other than that I see no GOOD reason to not put
ANY pre-built sage in a virtual machine within Virtual Box.
I may try that if/when I get a good build under UBUNTU 10.10

SO FAR my build with atlas-3.8.3.p17 is running successfully,
it has gone WAY past the Atlas install.


On Nov 6, 12:36 am, Andrey Novoseltsev  wrote:
> This may be related:
>
> I also regularly (although not deterministically) have troubles with
> ATLAS on a Turion x2 notebook. I has 4Gb RAM, but I am running Ubuntu
> 10.4 in VirtualBox with 1.5Gb and one CPU core accessible to it. It
> always takes forever to build ATLAS on it and often it crashes. Since
> I mostly work on other computers anyway, I don't get too concerned and
> just repeat make or sage -upgrade when it happens, usually it
> helps ;-) It also seems to me that mistakes happen only if I DON'T use
> the computer at all (including host OS) while the build goes, but I am
> not sure.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrey

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

So far that is working, i.e. Atlas has completed and no other packages
seem to have tripped over any side effects.
Thanks again.


On Nov 5, 7:24 pm, Volker Braun  wrote:
> You can try my new atlas spkg 
> athttp://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/10226
> if you have a minute.
>
> SAGE_ATLAS_ARCH=HAMMER,SSE3,SSE2,SSE1
> export SAGE_ATLAS_ARCH
> sage -f atlas-3.8.3.p17.spkg
>
> or just save the new spgk in SAGE_ROOT/spkg/standard/
>
> Volker

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[sage-devel] Re: Debian Version?

[RegB]

I have built Sage successfully on Debian 6.0.0 through 6.0.3 on AMD,
both in virtual machines (VirtualBox under Windows Vista with 1 Gig
memory)
and physical.  The most recent change to the Atlas package that allows
me to
specify architecture=fast has speeded things up considerably, i.e. it
takes
a reasonable set of tuning parameters and builds relatively quickly
instead
of striving for perfection and taking 3, 4 or 5 times as long and then
failing
due to what it perceives as an unstable system (unpredictable
performance).

As a newbie I have followed ALL the instructions in the installation
document
to the letter, so I have not had to chase down obsolete compilers,
libraries,
or anything like that.
A minor tip on the install/build manual, before you actually type
"make" DO
read on through the section on environment variables and set those,
then come
back and type "make", take a break, find other things to do for n
hours, etc.



On Nov 11, 3:59 pm, frosty  wrote:
> I have just discovered Sage & want to know if there are any folks here
> working on making a Debian version that would work without having to
> compile all the parts. i.e. use the needed files, apps & libraries
> that are already packaged in Debian.
> Secondly I have downloaded the binary for Linux and have it installed
> & runnimng: I want to actually compile Sage for my server which is an
> AMD 6 core based server with 8Gb of ram running Debian stable. I
> tried , but it errored out, error 1 showing a segmentation fault. I am
> including the message snippet part of the install log to this mail.
> Maybe it will help.
> Thanks!
> Frosty
>
> > sage/geometry/triangulation/base.cpp: In function ‘int 
> > __pyx_pf_4sage_8geometry_13triangulation_4base_31ConnectedTriangulationsIterator_1__init__(PyObject*,
> >  PyObject*, PyObject*)’:
> > sage/geometry/triangulation/base.cpp:3928: internal compiler error: 
> > Segmentation fault
> > Please submit a full bug report,
> > with preprocessed source if appropriate.
> > See  for instructions.
> > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> > sage: There was an error installing modified sage library code.
>
> > ERROR installing Sage
>
> > real  5m48.351s
> > user  31m10.961s
> > sys   0m55.679s
> > sage: An error occurred while installing sage-4.7.2
> > Please email sage-develhttp://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel
> > explaining the problem and send the relevant part of
> > of /home/frosty/sage-4.7.2/install.log.  Describe your computer, operating 
> > system, etc.
> > If you want to try to fix the problem yourself, *don't* just cd to
> > /home/frosty/sage-4.7.2/spkg/build/sage-4.7.2 and type 'make check' or 
> > whatever is appropriate.
> > Instead, the following commands setup all environment variables
> > correctly and load a subshell for you to debug the error:
> > (cd '/home/frosty/sage-4.7.2/spkg/build/sage-4.7.2' && 
> > '/home/frosty/sage-4.7.2/sage' -sh)
> > When you are done debugging, you can type "exit" to leave the
> > subshell.
> > make[1]: *** [installed/sage-4.7.2] Error 1
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/frosty/sage-4.7.2/spkg'
>
> > real  243m1.297s
> > user  263m5.531s
> > sys   13m38.279s
> > Error building Sage.

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[sage-devel] Re: Singular and Symmetric don't build on Ubuntu Oneiric (11.10)

[RegB]

It has worked for me too, on both VirtualBox in a 64 bit Vista host
and
on the same physical machine (AMD laptop) in its own partition.
I am currently trying to get a cantor front end working with
matplotlib,
but sage itself and the notebook work just fine.

I should add that as a total newbie I follow the install guide
TO THE LETTER !!! and don't skip any steps or make any assumptions.

I have had occasional hang ups, but overcame those by nullifying the
parallel build, I type;
  export MAKE='make -j1'


On Oct 15, 12:21 am, akm  wrote:
> On Sep 10, 9:58 pm, "john.hoebing"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:52 am, Dan Drake  wrote:
>
> > > I can confirm that by using the LDFLAGS workaround and fiddling with the
> > > Symmetrica makefile, both spkgs compile, and the resulting Sage build
> > > passes all tests on my Oneiric VM.
>
> > > ---  Dan Drake
> > > -  http://mathsci.kaist.ac.kr/~drake
>
> > I too can confirm that Symmetrica builds on amd64, gcc-4.6.2,
> > Ubuntu 11.10 64bit native with the '-lm' fix.
>
> > I sent an email to the maintainer of Symmetrica advising him of
> > the problem and of the fix.  He asked if he should make the change
> > to the downloadable version from his site and I said of course,
> > so soon we should have a new official Symmetrica.
>
> > Meanwhile I opened a trac for this 
> > issue,http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11788.
>
> > John Hoebing
>
> Worked for me on Ubuntu 11.10 amd64 by doing `export LDFLAGS="-ldl"`
> and swapping in the spkg found in this 
> trac:http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/10719
>
> Best
> Andrew Musselman

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.7.2 make failure on Thinkpad T-40 with Oneiric Ubuntu - maxima fails to build

[RegB]

WRT Memory - - It SEEMS that a Gig of RAM plus another Gig of Swap
is needed for Ubuntu 11.10   64 bit virtual machine.
I cannot say for sure that less will cause failures, only that this
config
runs close when building docs.  Best not to be running much else
at the same time that is memory intense .

On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, Jonathan Bober  wrote:
> I'm not really sure. I'm hoping that someone else might have some more
> advice. It would be easier to diagnose these failures if they could be
> replicated.
>
> Some other thoughts: More information about your machine might be useful,
> like the output from 'cat /proc/cpuinfo', and the amount of ram + swap that
> you have. Maybe the machine is running out of memory during the build and
> giving a strange error? Maybe you're having actually hardware failures? (If
> you try to build again, does it always fail in the same spot?)
>
> It also might be useful for someone else to see your install.log, if you
> send it to me I'll put it somewhere public if you don't mind, or maybe Dima
> can do that. (The missing files don't appear to be part of the maxima spkg
> before it is built, so if it is giving a missing file error, then maybe
> there was some earlier error?)
>
> (You might also check the md5 sum of your source download, and make sure
> that nothing went wrong there.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dale Amon  wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 04:04:48PM -0800, Jonathan Bober wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Jonathan Bober 
> > wrote:
> > > > Are other people really having problems building on Ubuntu 11.10? I've
> > had
> > > > no problems building sage 4.8.2 on 64-bit Ubuntu 11.10. Also, I just
> > tried
> > > > on 32-bit 11.10 in a virtual machine, and sage built without any
> > problems.
> > > > (Running make ptest now.)
>
> > > All tests passed!
> > > Total time for all tests: 1428.0 seconds
>
> > > (And, of course, I meant sage 4.7.2.)
>
> > Do you have a specific procedure you would like me to test
> > here on the T40?
>
> > --
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to
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> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel
> > URL:http://www.sagemath.org

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[sage-devel] Re: Ubuntu 11.10 testers needed

[RegB]

It ran straight through here.
DETAILS:  Toshiba Satellite P775 laptop, i7, 8 Gig Ram, Windows 7 Home
Premium,
Virtual Box allowed 4 Gig Ram and 95% of available processor(s), no
attempt made
to "throttle" the host machine, or the guest.
Almost 3 hours, but from the size of the Atlas
log file 15.7 Meg, I would guess it made at least 3 tuning passes,
despite setting  SAGE_ATLAS_ARCH=Corei7,SSE3,SSE2,SSE1
as documented, I copy/pasted that to be SURE that I got it right.
other env;
SAGE_PARALLEL_SPKG_BUILD="yes"
MAKE='make -j8'
SAGE_SPKG_INSTALL_DOCS="yes"

Yeah Earl, this thang is definitely faster than the PDP-8
prolly faster than the PDP-9 too (-:


On Jan 5, 9:35 am, Jeroen Demeyer  wrote:
> For those running Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot):
>
> Please test 
> sage-4.8.alpha6:http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/release/sage-4.8.alpha6/sage-4
>
> In some cases, R is known to fail to build because of a readline issue.
>  If you encounter this issue, please do the following (from ticket #11970):
> $ ./sage 
> -ihttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/palmieri/SPKG/readline-6.2.p3.spkg
>
> Then simply continue with
> $ make
>
> And report whether the build now works.
>
> Jeroen.

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[sage-devel] Re: Ubuntu 11.10 testers needed

[RegB]

Bahh, disappointed (-:
Using 'make ptestlong' I just got;

=
sage -t  --long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/modular/modform/
cuspidal_submodule.py
 [7.3 s]
sage -t  --long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/modular/modform/element.py
 [25.9 s]
sage -t  --long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/modular/modform/space.py
 [14.6 s]

--
The temporary doctesting directory
   /root/.sage/tmp/aandr_2-2686
was not removed: it is not empty, presumably because doctests
failed or doctesting was interrupted.

--

The following tests failed:

sage -t  --long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/structure/sage_object.pyx
# 1 doctests failed
sage -t  --long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/tests/cmdline.py # 1
doctests failed
--
Total time for all tests: 2080.3 seconds
make: *** [ptestlong] Error 128
root@aandr-2:/usr/local/sage-4.8.alpha6#
=

Running it again, it seems to take up 50% of available CPU(s),
according to Windows 7 task manager.

Thanks,

\R

On Jan 8, 2:38 pm, Adam Webb  wrote:
> On Jan 7, 5:39 am, John Cremona  wrote:
>
> > (24 hours later)
>
> > Successfully built 4.8.alpha6 
> > withhttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/palmieri/SPKG/readline-6.2.p3.spkg
> > put into spkg/standard before starting to build.  All long tests pass
> > and there is no warning about readline, and history etc all works
> > normally.
>
> > John
>
> I did a similar build on a virtual machine (given half the resources
> on a Gateway PC, i7, 8 GB Ram, Windows 7 Home Premium)). I had had
> problems with readline previously with this setup so I used the new
> spkg. Atlas reported errors as it always does but continued anyway. I
> used make -j4 for the build and the test. using 'make ptestlong'
> resulted in:
> All tests passed!
> Total time for all tests: 1639.2 seconds
>
> Adam

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[sage-devel] Re: Ubuntu 11.10 testers needed

[RegB]

PS to earlier post;
My build was with the p2 version of the readline package.
FWIW, but I still have the same failure with; "make ptestlong"

I tried again after a; "make clean", but got the same failure.
Will play around with it later, but I think readline.p2 is OK on
my Ubuntu 11.10 and on my Kubuntu 11.10 virtual machine as well,
which is just about all Ubuntu under the hood.

On Jan 9, 8:36 am, John Cremona  wrote:
> On 9 January 2012 13:25, Jeroen Demeyer  wrote:
>
> > On 2012-01-07 12:39, John Cremona wrote:
> >> (24 hours later)
>
> >> Successfully built 4.8.alpha6 with
> >>http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/palmieri/SPKG/readline-6.2.p3.spkg
> >> put into spkg/standard before starting to build.  All long tests pass
> >> and there is no warning about readline, and history etc all works
> >> normally.
>
> > Great news.  I guess this qualifies as positive review to #11970.
>
> I think so (but I think I did not change the ticket, I only posted
> here). Other people were testing different configurations too, but for
> me this fixes it.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to 
> > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel
> > URL:http://www.sagemath.org

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[sage-devel] Re: Trac Accounts...

[RegB]

As  a very much below average user I will try that right now.
Windows 7, new Laptop, previous laptop was Vista based, so this could
take a bit of time.
Now 9:16
Going into Windows control panel first;
Troubleshooting>Network & Internet>Incoming connections  gets to
some sort of automated troubleshooter script, nothing asking me what I
am trying to do, no clues about what is being blocked or where.
Interesting... If I click on the advanced button it asks if I want to
run as administrator, which I then clicked and one of the network
adapters that it offered to diagnose is "Virtual Box Host-Only
Network".
OK, that didn't find a problem, but of course there isn't one, I am
looking for a way through a block that the troubleshooter probably
regards as "good".
I got a network troubleshooting log file, it has details of the
connection as a header, then all the usual MS nonsense about trying a
different cable, switching things off, waiting 30 seconds, switching
back on, etc.
I think this is going nowhere.

Ahh, Windows Firewall>Allowed Programs :::brings me to a window that
offers
"Allow another Program" in the bottom right corner, I clicked on that
and selected "Oracle  VM Virtual Box" which then appeared in the table
with local checked and public unchecked.
If this is all I need - now 9:43 (with commentary 27 minutes).

This might be useful to me, it might even get the shared folders thang
to work (-:
As I said, this is a NEW laptop and I am new to Windoze7.
I shall now go into my virtual machines to see if they can see the
host's shared folders.

FWIW, etc.

On Jan 10, 7:41 am, mmarco  wrote:
> I have no contact with windows systems at all, so i don't know how is
> the real situation right now.
>
> Is it usual that windows systems come with port 8000 firewalled? How
> hard would it be for an average user to open that port?
>
> And also, does the port forwarding method work even if there is no
> network connection in the host system?

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage build time

[RegB]

Do you have a (good) idea of where diminishing returns cuts in ?
I imagine the number of cores (threads) doesn't help much above a
fairly small number due to sequential dependencies ?
More memory is always "nice to have" but does it really help HERE ?

Did you set the atlas_architecture environment variable to cut down on
tuning time ?


On Jan 20, 8:25 am, Jeroen Demeyer  wrote:
> Some observations from building sage-4.8 on a very fast system (32
> cores, 512G RAM) using "make -j64 -l32".
>
> First of all, apply the patch from #12329 to prune many unneeded
> dependencies of the Sage library (needs_review by the way...):
>
> Total time for "make build" was 27 minutes, total time for "make doc" 14
> minutes, for a grand total of 41 minutes.
>
> The critical path to build all of Sage is as follows (every package
> depends on the one just above it):
>
> (base)
> patch
> iconv
> libgpg_error
> libgcrypt
> opencdk
> gnutls
> python
> fortran
> lapack
> atlas
> r + rpy2
>
> The 10 slowest packages to build (slowest first):
> r
> atlas
> scipy
> polybori
> maxima
> ntl
> singular
> ecl
> sage
> libm4ri

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6 build - Atlas fails on Ubuntu 10.10 on amd turion X2 laptop

[RegB]

Update:
Since my last update;
The Atlas problem seemed to have been fixed with the atlas-3.8.3.p17
spkg, however I ran into more trouble later with matplotlib-1.0.0
and that sent me off on a course of enquiry that led me to try
building
each component separately; BLAS, NUMPY, PYTHON,  ATLAS, etc.
At one point I gave up and downloaded a pre-built binary.

I got back to building on friday and I am HAPPY to announce that
I have successfully built and tested SAGE in the Linux partition AND
in a virtual box under Windows Vista.
This is with the original atlas-3.8.3.p16 from the tarball.

This is probably documented somewhere and in any case I should
have taken it as implicit that one needs to be ROOT to do the build.
{perhaps in formal terms I should say one needs to have root acting
on one's behalf, i.e. $sudo su on Ububtu/Debian}
That was sufficient on the standalone Linux partition.

In the Virtual box it SEEMS to be necessary to give the virtual
machine
more than 1 Gig of memory.
Although I haven't found the limit 2,961 Meg has worked here.
Virtual Box would not allow me to devote more than 75% of the physical
machine's memory and I only have 4 Gig.

Also it is not necessary to disable CPU throttling in the virtual
machine.
I can speculate why, but Atlas reports that it cannot detect
throttling.

On Nov 6, 10:45 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I get confused with the directions about running in virtual box (-:
> I think  it should be OK and very possible to create virtual
> machines, say within virtual box within Windows Vista and install
> Linux in those VMs , then go ahead and install Sage on the Linux.
> i.e. (Windows Vista (Virtual Box(UBUNTU10.10(Sage
> Now the Linux doesn't have anything LIKE a wall clock, so I
> would have to ASSUME that Atlas would blow itself up
> on the timing, other than that I see no GOOD reason to not put
> ANY pre-built sage in a virtual machine within Virtual Box.
> I may try that if/when I get a good build underUBUNTU10.10
>
> SO FAR my build with atlas-3.8.3.p17 is running successfully,
> it has gone WAY past the Atlas install.
>
> On Nov 6, 12:36 am, Andrey Novoseltsev  wrote:
>
> > This may be related:
>
> > I also regularly (although not deterministically) have troubles with
> > ATLAS on a Turion x2 notebook. I has 4Gb RAM, but I am runningUbuntu
> > 10.4 in VirtualBox with 1.5Gb and one CPU core accessible to it. It
> > always takes forever to build ATLAS on it and often it crashes. Since
> > I mostly work on other computers anyway, I don't get too concerned and
> > just repeat make or sage -upgrade when it happens, usually it
> > helps ;-) It also seems to me that mistakes happen only if I DON'T use
> > the computer at all (including host OS) while the build goes, but I am
> > not sure.
>
> > Thank you,
> > Andrey

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[sage-devel] Re: building sage took more then 24h now

[RegB]

I have a similarly modest system and my experience with UBUNTU 10.10
has been that the standard set of packages takes about 8 hours, maybe
6 1/2
of build and 1 1/2 of testing and document building.
Anecdotal ? Yes, but 24h + to build some unknown package(s) is no
surprise to me (-:

You could monitor the log(s) as this build progresses.
You MIGHT see some re-curing error that is causing numerous re-tries,
etc.
Same comment on the scripts, they may retry without limit on
(partial)failure.
It might be worth editing to limit the re-tries, example Atlas gives
up after 5.

Disclaimer; I am a newbie, regard my input as NOT advice (-:

On Nov 16, 3:21 am, Johannes  wrote:
> hi list,
> On Sunday started to install all experimental packages by
> sage -experimental | grep --color -vE 'INSTALLED|NOT|Type' | xargs sage -i
> and it's still building.
> Is this normal, or did i run into a endless loop?
>
> my configuration:
> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T8100  @ 2.10GHz
> 2GB Ram
> Linux neo 2.6.32-25-generic #44-Ubuntu SMP Fri Sep 17 20:26:08 UTC 2010
> i686 GNU/Linux
>
> greatz Johannes

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[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

The .exe version appeared to install and detect my grub loader, which
I was told to edit a file for.  I was "paperless" at the time, so
didn't write
anything down.  I wasn't remembering the specific instructions the
next time I booted.

The .iso file booted OK from a CD and the browser came up fine.
The notebook APPEARED to connect to port 8000, but 
didn't
cause the cells to be evaluated.

I hope to have more time to put to it tomorrow - in the mean time, I
agree
it could pose reputation risk if folks get their MBR corrupted, or
similar.


On Nov 24, 12:41 pm, David Kirkby  wrote:
> On 23 November 2010 23:56, emil  wrote:
>
> > I am proud to announce sagelive-511-46.exe, which will install the
> > Sage system on Windows systems.
>
> 
>
> > cheers
> > emil
>
> > Disclaimer: this hooks into the windows boot process, so use at own
> > risk! If you are cautious maybe test on an oldha machine first ...
>
> I have never come across this before, but it strikes me as potentially
> a risky process, which could break with updates from Microsoft.
>
> Incorrect results are bad for Sage's reputation, but screwing up users
> systems would probably do even more damage.
>
> I only have my laptop with me which has Solaris 11 Express. I'm not
> going to run a Windows Virtual machine, then inside that run a Linux
> system inside that!!.I think that will be asking too much for a
> machine with 2 GB RAM.
>
> I'll give it a try on my Ultra 27 in the next few days with a Windows
> Virtual machine. But I'm quite weary of programs that fiddle at such a
> low-level with Windows.
>
> Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

Emil,
I am the ABSOLUTE NOVICE here, so wherever is deemed appropriate
to hold it is fine with me.
If there is a sage-pre-alpha-test discussion group that would probably
be most appropriate (-:

By the way, I do TRUST Virtual Box. (VMware player ?, not so much)
It has provided very good isolation of UBUNTU virtual machines under
Windows Vista
and I have been able to build Sage from source within one.
It just needs enough memory, I am using 2900 or so meg and Vista
isn't running TOO badly.

My keyboard is generic USA, locale settings USA, std defaults.

My comment about MBR corruption was inappropriate at best.

On Nov 25, 4:29 am, emil  wrote:
> Hello RegB,
>
> thank you for testing!
>
> On Nov 25, 5:05 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > The .exe version appeared to install and detect my grub loader, which
> > I was told to edit a file for.  I was "paperless" at the time, so
> > didn't write
> > anything down.  I wasn't remembering the specific instructions the
> > next time I booted.
>
> About the editing a file: this happens if you already have grub
> installed as your bootloader.
> In this case it is easier to add the system to your existing menu.lst
> file. But that just involves to copy the lines
>
> title Sage Live
> find --set-root --ignore-floppies /Sage Live 511.46/initrd.gz
> kernel /Sage Live 511.46/vmlinuz psubdir="Sage Live 511.46"
> initrd /Sage Live 511.46/initrd.gz
>
> into it.
>
>
>
> > The .iso file booted OK from a CD and the browser came up fine.
> > The notebook APPEARED to connect to port 8000, but 
> > didn't
> > cause the cells to be evaluated.
>
> About the browser not evaluating with shift-enter - this is completely
> new to me, it had always worked so far. What are your keyboard
> setting? [Menu]->[Desktop]->[Country Settings]
>
> A small quirk of the "notebook Icon" is, that the browser starts some
> (i think 6) seconds after the sage server, so eventually if the sager
> server is to slow to start up you will get a "page not found" error.
> In that case just hit the "Reload" button.
>
>
>
> > I hope to have more time to put to it tomorrow - in the mean time, I
> > agree
> > it could pose reputation risk if folks get their MBR corrupted, or
> > similar.
>
> Hm, it is a missconception that the programm alters the mbr, that is
> exactly not what the programm does  (thats why it stopped in your case
> and you have to edit your grub menu.lst by hand).
>
> If there is the original Windows bootloader than it just adds the
> entry to that bootloader (thats what I mean with: "hooks in"). In
> Windows XP it will create an entry in the file boot.ini.
> it will look like (example)
>
> [boot loader]
>
> timeout=5
>
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
>
> [operating systems]
>
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
>
> c:\grldr="Start Sage Live"
>
> in Windows 7 the following commands are executed:
>
> bcdedit /export "C:\BCD Backup"
>    (backs up the BCD, for safety)
>
> bcdedit /create /d "Start Puppy Linux" /application bootsector
>    (Adds the puppy entry)
> This command returns an ID, The installer gets the ID.
>
> bcdedit /set {ID} device "partition=C:"
> bcdedit /set {ID} path \grldr.mbr
>
> bcdedit /displayorder {Insert ID here} /addlast
>   (adds it to the menu)
>
> bcdedit /timeout 10
>   (sets the timeout to 10 seconds)
>
> So there is not really something *very* dangerous happening in the
> code. NO repartitioning and NO messing with the mbr.
>
> The grub is installed "after" the windows bootloader, so if you add
> entries to the menu.lst you get a second boot menu.
>
> In fact this can be used to very easily have several versions of the
> system running. Just make a new folder and copy the files over. You
> could make a "Sage Live Dev" Folder. And do your experimental work in
> it. Or if the next version comes out, and you can spare 600 MB of
> diskspace, keep the old sage version on the computer (its just +1
> folder).
>
> Do you want to move this discussion over to sage-windows or do you
> want to discuss it here on sage-devel?
>
> kind regards,
> emil
>
>
>
> > On Nov 24, 12:41 pm, David Kirkby  wrote:

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[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

OK, I found the lack of evaluation on .
On a "FRESH" system when sage notebook() is entered
on the terminal screen a requester pops up asking for
a new password and VERY SOON after that
the browser window overlays it.
It is easy to miss the new password requester,
obviously I did on Friday.
Newbies are tempted to quickly make a new worksheet,
type 2+2 into a cell, press  to see if it works, etc.

Is there a way to make the password requester pop up in
some opposite corner of the screen and/or make the browser
avoid that screen space ?

Also, the first example of 3d plotting in the tutorial is my
quick and dirty little test of the java run time environment.

x, y = var('x,y')
plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))

It throws a yellow background with a link to the java site.
Once I got my network connection set up that worked,
but on my standalone UBUNTU (and those within Virtual Box)
I have found it simplest to install the weird package with
synaptic package manager - icedtea, etc.
I think it would be good if you could include a jre.

I need to put the .iso image onto a USB memory
card so I can write back my setup.


On Nov 25, 4:29 am, emil  wrote:
> Hello RegB,
>
> thank you for testing!
>
> On Nov 25, 5:05 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > The .exe version appeared to install and detect my grub loader, which
> > I was told to edit a file for.  I was "paperless" at the time, so
> > didn't write
> > anything down.  I wasn't remembering the specific instructions the
> > next time I booted.
>
> About the editing a file: this happens if you already have grub
> installed as your bootloader.
> In this case it is easier to add the system to your existing menu.lst
> file. But that just involves to copy the lines
>
> title Sage Live
> find --set-root --ignore-floppies /Sage Live 511.46/initrd.gz
> kernel /Sage Live 511.46/vmlinuz psubdir="Sage Live 511.46"
> initrd /Sage Live 511.46/initrd.gz
>
> into it.
>
>
>
> > The .iso file booted OK from a CD and the browser came up fine.
> > The notebook APPEARED to connect to port 8000, but 
> > didn't
> > cause the cells to be evaluated.
>
> About the browser not evaluating with shift-enter - this is completely
> new to me, it had always worked so far. What are your keyboard
> setting? [Menu]->[Desktop]->[Country Settings]
>
> A small quirk of the "notebook Icon" is, that the browser starts some
> (i think 6) seconds after the sage server, so eventually if the sager
> server is to slow to start up you will get a "page not found" error.
> In that case just hit the "Reload" button.
>
>
>
> > I hope to have more time to put to it tomorrow - in the mean time, I
> > agree
> > it could pose reputation risk if folks get their MBR corrupted, or
> > similar.
>
> Hm, it is a missconception that the programm alters the mbr, that is
> exactly not what the programm does  (thats why it stopped in your case
> and you have to edit your grub menu.lst by hand).
>
> If there is the original Windows bootloader than it just adds the
> entry to that bootloader (thats what I mean with: "hooks in"). In
> Windows XP it will create an entry in the file boot.ini.
> it will look like (example)
>
> [boot loader]
>
> timeout=5
>
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
>
> [operating systems]
>
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
>
> c:\grldr="Start Sage Live"
>
> in Windows 7 the following commands are executed:
>
> bcdedit /export "C:\BCD Backup"
>    (backs up the BCD, for safety)
>
> bcdedit /create /d "Start Puppy Linux" /application bootsector
>    (Adds the puppy entry)
> This command returns an ID, The installer gets the ID.
>
> bcdedit /set {ID} device "partition=C:"
> bcdedit /set {ID} path \grldr.mbr
>
> bcdedit /displayorder {Insert ID here} /addlast
>   (adds it to the menu)
>
> bcdedit /timeout 10
>   (sets the timeout to 10 seconds)
>
> So there is not really something *very* dangerous happening in the
> code. NO repartitioning and NO messing with the mbr.
>
> The grub is installed "after" the windows bootloader, so if you add
> entries to the menu.lst you get a second boot menu.
>
> In fact this can be used to very easily have several versions of the
> system running. Just make a new folder and copy the files over. You
> could make a "Sage Live Dev" Folder. And do your experimental work in
> it. Or if the next version comes out, and you can spare 600 MB of
> diskspac

[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

Thanks,
A correction to the failure to evaluate.
On a "FRESH" system, such as a windoze user might try this on.
When sage is started a pop up requester appears asking for a new
password, but it is quickly overwritten by the browser image, so
it can be easily missed by someone not looking/waiting for it.
Of course I rushed into typing 2+2  without being
logged in.

Another thing is that there appears to be no jre - I suspect you
are trying to stay within a single CD ?
My "quick and dirty jre test is the first 3d plot in the tutorial.
This;
x, y = var('x,y')
plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))

throws a yellow background and a link to the java web site.
Once I set up my networking I was able to get there, but on my
standalone UBUNTU (as well as the ones in Virtual Box) I have
found it quicker/simpler/easier (for newbie me) to use synaptics
package manager to install "weird" - icedtea, etc.

I need to put the .iso file on a USB memory card so I can write out
my config and changes.  Tomorrow, a feast is calling me.

On Nov 25, 10:27 am, emil  wrote:
> > Emil,
> > I am the ABSOLUTE NOVICE here, so wherever is deemed appropriate
> > to hold it is fine with me.
> > If there is a sage-pre-alpha-test discussion group that would probably
> > be most appropriate (-:
>
> I think it is a different matter. It is not about pre-alpha. Because
> sage -testall
> passes on the system (it throws one error from the preparser, but this
> is because
> gcc is not included in the base distribution). Anyway the included
> sage consists just of the current
> ubuntu binaries, so this should be fine.
>
> It's more about politics. And which distribution methods to support
> and
> which not. I agree - its a bit "out of the box". Maybe its for sage-
> marketing?
>
>
>
> > By the way, I do TRUST Virtual Box. (VMware player ?, not so much)
> > It has provided very good isolation of UBUNTU virtual machines under
> > Windows Vista
> > and I have been able to build Sage from source within one.
> > It just needs enough memory, I am using 2900 or so meg and Vista
> > isn't running TOO badly.
>
> Well I use Sage live with 1 GB Ram, and it runs smoothly.
>
>
>
> > My keyboard is generic USA, locale settings USA, std defaults.
>
> I reallz don't know whats wrong here. I tried the us setting, but shift
> +enter works flawlesslz on my install.
> Does the evaluate link work though?
>
> > My comment about MBR corruption was inappropriate at best.
>
> I think the comments were perfectly appropriate and valid, because I
> didn't really stated what method I use.
> And I think the worries about breaking an existing system are serious
> concerns.
> I am just 1 person and it worked for me (on 2 different machines now).
> My opinion is that this is a very
> easy possibility and that it works fine. You may have different
> opinions and they may be equally well, or even better founded. All I
> do is to ask and invite the sage community to test this, maybe on some
> older boxes. At least I got 1 additional successfull installation
> (from Bill Hart at sage-windows  :D)!
>
> I may quote:
> "It works great on my Vista 32 bit machine. That's actually the first
> time I've had a notebook running locally on a laptop! "
>
> emil

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[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

Thanks,
A correction to the failure to evaluate.
On a "FRESH" system, such as a windoze user might try this on.
When sage is started a pop up requester appears asking for a new
password, but it is quickly overwritten by the browser image, so
it can be easily missed by someone not looking/waiting for it.
Of course I rushed into typing 2+2  without being
logged in.

Another thing is that there appears to be no jre - I suspect you
are trying to stay within a single CD ?
My "quick and dirty jre test is the first 3d plot in the tutorial.
This;
x, y = var('x,y')
plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))

throws a yellow background and a link to the java web site.
Once I set up my networking I was able to get there, but on my
standalone UBUNTU (as well as the ones in Virtual Box) I have
found it quicker/simpler/easier (for newbie me) to use synaptics
package manager to install "weird" - icedtea, etc.

I need to put the .iso file on a USB memory card so I can write out
my config and changes.  Tomorrow, a feast is calling me.

On Nov 25, 10:27 am, emil  wrote:
> > Emil,
> > I am the ABSOLUTE NOVICE here, so wherever is deemed appropriate
> > to hold it is fine with me.
> > If there is a sage-pre-alpha-test discussion group that would probably
> > be most appropriate (-:
>
> I think it is a different matter. It is not about pre-alpha. Because
> sage -testall
> passes on the system (it throws one error from the preparser, but this
> is because
> gcc is not included in the base distribution). Anyway the included
> sage consists just of the current
> ubuntu binaries, so this should be fine.
>
> It's more about politics. And which distribution methods to support
> and
> which not. I agree - its a bit "out of the box". Maybe its for sage-
> marketing?
>
>
>
> > By the way, I do TRUST Virtual Box. (VMware player ?, not so much)
> > It has provided very good isolation of UBUNTU virtual machines under
> > Windows Vista
> > and I have been able to build Sage from source within one.
> > It just needs enough memory, I am using 2900 or so meg and Vista
> > isn't running TOO badly.
>
> Well I use Sage live with 1 GB Ram, and it runs smoothly.
>
>
>
> > My keyboard is generic USA, locale settings USA, std defaults.
>
> I reallz don't know whats wrong here. I tried the us setting, but shift
> +enter works flawlesslz on my install.
> Does the evaluate link work though?
>
> > My comment about MBR corruption was inappropriate at best.
>
> I think the comments were perfectly appropriate and valid, because I
> didn't really stated what method I use.
> And I think the worries about breaking an existing system are serious
> concerns.
> I am just 1 person and it worked for me (on 2 different machines now).
> My opinion is that this is a very
> easy possibility and that it works fine. You may have different
> opinions and they may be equally well, or even better founded. All I
> do is to ask and invite the sage community to test this, maybe on some
> older boxes. At least I got 1 additional successfull installation
> (from Bill Hart at sage-windows  :D)!
>
> I may quote:
> "It works great on my Vista 32 bit machine. That's actually the first
> time I've had a notebook running locally on a laptop! "
>
> emil

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[sage-devel] Re: NEW: Sage Windows installer.exe (577 MB): it's a 1-click install !!!

[RegB]

There is a practical issue with having to edit the menu.lst
file from within windows.
It is at least IMPLIED that the user should do this before
re-booting and of course it would be NICE to do it while
the instructions are still displayed.
The puzzle of course is how to find and edit menu.lst
while still in the Windows environment.
One could argue that anyone with a grub loader should
know Linux/Unix well enough to do that outside of the Windows
environment, but I am reading an implicit goal to be
inclusive of the Windows and "less than expert" Linux user
community.
IOW; We're not all expert Unix hackers out here (-:

I suggest some detailed instructions in the readme.txt,
including a line to say "Print this before shutting down windows".
A short "How To" in the readme on creating a bootable
USB memory stick would also be useful in helping the first
time user achieve a working set-up.
I know you can't make it the total manual about anything
and everything, but I think these items are "needed".

Best,

\R

On Nov 25, 3:44 pm, emil  wrote:
> Hi RegB,
>
> thanks for extremly valuable feedback!
>
> > Thanks,
> > A correction to the failure to evaluate.
> > On a "FRESH" system, such as a windoze user might try this on.
> > When sage is started a pop up requester appears asking for a new
> > password, but it is quickly overwritten by the browser image, so
> > it can be easily missed by someone not looking/waiting for it.
> > Of course I rushed into typing 2+2  without being
> > logged in.
>
> This is a slight problem, I might reconsider the standart "popping"
> place of the notebook.
> I will mention it prominently, that one has to wait for sage server to
> start, and also wait at first start for the password creation.
> But I think once it is accepted that it should work people will be
> able to find those loggins.
>
> > Another thing is that there appears to be no jre - I suspect you
> > are trying to stay within a single CD ?
>
> I am a bit ashamed that I forgot that sage needs Java for 3d graphics.
> I briefly considered
> to include it by default, but than I decided to leave it out because
> JRE is listed in the "quickpet" installer. The size would be no
> problem because it takes ~35 MB in the compressed filesystem. This
> should definitly be included in the next version (maybe even a full
> java)
>
> > My "quick and dirty jre test is the first 3d plot in the tutorial.
> > This;
> > x, y = var('x,y')
> > plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))
>
> > throws a yellow background and a link to the java web site.
> > Once I set up my networking I was able to get there, but on my
> > standalone UBUNTU (as well as the ones in Virtual Box) I have
> > found it quicker/simpler/easier (for newbie me) to use synaptics
> > package manager to install "weird" - icedtea, etc.
>
> great, you managed it -
>
> I didn't test the quickpet install,so I just now realised that jre is
> broken there, I have to report upstream!
> However there is a solution :D! I quickly made a package for the
> latest Java runtime environment. This should work:
> boxen.math.washington.edu/home/emil/sagelive/jre_1.6.0_22.pet
> download and klick it to install.
>
> Ok thanks very much for the feedback
> Emil

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[sage-devel] Re: LaTeX font issue with notebook

[RegB]

Your example works on my virtual box encased
UBUNTU 10.10, Sage 4.6.
Without knowing exactly which ones do what, I offer the list of mine;
dpkg -l|grep texlive|grep ^ii|awk '{print $2}'
texlive
texlive-base
texlive-binaries
texlive-common
texlive-doc-base
texlive-extra-utils
texlive-font-utils
texlive-fonts-recommended
texlive-fonts-recommended-doc
texlive-generic-recommended
texlive-latex-base
texlive-latex-base-doc
texlive-latex-extra
texlive-latex-extra-doc
texlive-latex-recommended
texlive-latex-recommended-doc
texlive-luatex
texlive-pictures
texlive-pictures-doc
texlive-pstricks
texlive-pstricks-doc


On Nov 27, 2:04 am, Carlo Hamalainen 
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I can't render a LaTeX cell in the notebook. I am running Sage 4.6 on
> Ubuntu 10.10 64bit. I made a cell in the notebook that just says
>
> --
> %latex
>
> boo
> --
>
> When I try to evaluate the cell I get an error:
>
> --
> File: t1enc.def 2005/09/27 v1.99g Standard LaTeX file
> LaTeX Font Info:    Redeclaring font encoding T1 on input line 43.
> )
> ! Font T1/cmr/m/n/10=ecrm1000 at 10.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not 
> fou
> nd.
> 
>                    relax
> l.100 \fontencoding\encodingdefault\selectfont
>
> I wasn't able to read the size data for this font,
> so I will ignore the font specification.
> [Wizards can fix TFM files using TFtoPL/PLtoTF.]
> You might try inserting a different font spec;
> e.g., type `I\font='.
> --
>
> Here is the full 
> output:http://carlo-hamalainen.net/sage/full_output_ubuntu1010_sage4.6.txt
>
> And here are the installed texlive packages on my system:
>
> ca...@r500:~$ dpkg -l|grep texlive|grep ^ii|awk '{print $2}'
> texlive-base
> texlive-binaries
> texlive-common
> texlive-doc-base
> texlive-extra-utils
> texlive-font-utils
> texlive-fonts-extra
> texlive-fonts-extra-doc
> texlive-fonts-recommended
> texlive-fonts-recommended-doc
> texlive-generic-extra
> texlive-generic-recommended
> texlive-latex-base
> texlive-latex-base-doc
> texlive-luatex
> texlive-math-extra
> texlive-pstricks
> texlive-pstricks-doc
>
> Am I missing another texlive package? Or some other kind of preamble
> for my LaTeX cell?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Carlo Hamalainenhttp://carlo-hamalainen.net

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[sage-devel] Re: #9940: need help with parents and comparisons (and additive abelian groups)

[RegB]

I got
G < H
to alternately evaluate to true/false, for maybe half dozen trials,
then it went to many true.
My GUESS is that it is either due to some"residue" in something
uninitialized,
or a bug - which could also be an uninitialized issue ...somewhere.


On Nov 28, 1:35 am, Simon King  wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> On 27 Nov., 22:37, John H Palmieri  wrote:
>
> > I'm completely confused about the following behavior:
>
> So am I. I only found an __eq__ method, but no __cmp__ or __richcmp__,
> even though there is a _richcmp and _richcmp_helper. Can you test if
> these _rich... methods are called?
>
> Cheers,
> Simon

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[sage-devel] Re: Could you please clarify terms of use for WolframAlpha

[RegB]

Disclaimer; I am not a bar room lawyer, etc.

I think this phrase may be key;
"...incidental results or small groups of results from Wolfram|Alpha
on non-commercial websites and blogs..."
It depends on one's working definition of "small", maybe they are
deliberately ambiguous here.
"A dozen or so..."   is also vague, although a little more precise.

Also, my "commercial" days suggest that endorsement of results by
comparison to results from a competing product would be viewed
as part of the qualification phase of the development of a product.
(whether commercial or not).

Come to think of it, what is the accuracy/precision standard to which
Wolfram|Alpha claims to match and how closely ?


On Dec 1, 9:40 pm, David Kirkby  wrote:
> I'm sure you are aware of the Sage open-source mathematics software
>
> http://www.sagemath.org/
>
> which has a mission of creating a viable free open source alternative
> to Magma, Maple, Mathematica and MATLAB.
>
> Obviously Sage has a test suite where results from Sage are compared
> to a set of known results. For example, one test for the factorial()
> function is:
>
> sage: factorial(10)
> 3628800
>
> As you are no doubt aware, all non-trivial software contains bugs. It
> would be very useful to compare the result from Sage to that of other
> software which is developed independently.
>
> One way, which could be used in some circumstances, is to compare the
> Sage result to that obtained from Wolfram Alpha. For example
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10!
>
> shows 10 factorial is 3628800, so there is a very high probability
> that WolframAlpha and Sage are both correct.
>
> It would sometimes be useful to add a comment to the Sage test suite
> that the result has been compared to that obtained by WolframAlpha. So
> we could write something like:
>
> ---
> WolframAlpha gives the same result as Sage - 
> see:http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10!
>
> sage: factorial(10)
> 3628800
> -
>
> Sage has tens of thousands of tests and that number is increasing all
> the time. Only a fairly small fractions of those tests could be
> computed with WolframAlpha, and even in cases where they could, we
> might not chose to do so.
>
> Looking at the terms of use of WolframAlpha,
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/termsofuse.html
>
> I personally can't see anything that would suggest that comparing
> results with Wolfram Alpha, and documenting this  would breach the
> terms of use. But when I suggested we could verify a result in
> WolframAlpha
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=N[Integrate[+Sin[x]%2Fx^2%2C{x%2C1%2CPi%2F2}]%2C50]
>
> one Sage developer questioned whether this would be within the terms
> of use. See:his comments at:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/msg/1f8af294fbf40ccc?hl=en&;
>
> One section in particular of your terms of use says::
>
> "You are not allowed to use Wolfram|Alpha to create something that is
> likely or intended to be reused as a data source for further
> processing, or that in some other way serves as a replacement or
> alternative to using Wolfram|Alpha itself. This applies whether what
> you create is in electronic or print form."
>
> Sage, has a web based interface that allows one to perform advanced
> mathematical calculations. Clearly there are some calculations that
> could be performed in WolframAlpha, but which could also be performed
> in Sage. If you try Sage  - you can get a free account at
>
> http://t2nb.math.washington.edu:8080/
>
> you will soon realise that Sage is quite different to WolframAlpha.
> Sage is certainly not intended to be a replacement for WolframAlpha -
> in fact, Sage existed several years before WolframAlpha.
>
> Sage has its own language, which is based on Python. Sage can only
> process input using that syntax. It does not attempt to process
> questions the way WolframAlpha does.
>
> To save any further discussions on the Sage developers list about
> whether the use of WolframAlpha in the way I explained would be
> permissible, could you please clarify the matter.
>
> Obviously using WolframAlpha to compare results with Sage would be of
> benefit to the Sage project. But it would also benefit Wolfram
> Research too. In the event that comparisons with WolframAlpha showed
> different results, and we concluded WolframAlpha had a bug, we would
> out of politeness let you know. In fact, only recently I made your
> technical support team aware of a documentation error in PrimePi[] and
> PrimeQ[], which I understand will be fixed. This documentation error
> was discovered when some comparisons were made between Sage and
> Mathematica.
>
> Dr. David Kirkby (a developer of the Sage mathematics software).

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage-enhancing textbooks

[RegB]

Thank you SO MUCH for this.
I am a code hack from way back, with very poor math.
In fact I got into SAGE primarily to learn the math that has been so
lacking for far too long.
I keep getting distracted with the code though (-:

Here is a thought - probably not new to you;
How practical would it be to adapt the tools you have assembled to
enable a user to do the following.
1) Drag mouse over an expression to highlight it, I am thinking about
text in an unprepared document.
2) Right click to open a drop down menu that offers "edit in SAGE
notebook cell"  (approx).
3) (User edits to SAGE syntax, etc.)
4) Hit shift/enter, or click on evaluate.
5) All the usual things happen from the notebook server.
This would be so much easier/better than the Wolfram Alpha tool bar I
currently have in my browser,
that I have to copy/paste into.


On Dec 14, 5:07 pm, Rob Beezer  wrote:
> After months of threats, I finally have a toolchain of conversion
> software working acceptably and have begun adding actual Sage content
> to open source textbooks.  At
>
> http://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/LatexToWorksheet
>
> you will find:
>
> 1.  In the Examples section, the first chapter of my linear algebra
> textbook as a zip file of Sage worksheets with advice and examples for
> using Sage in the study of linear algebra.
>
> 2.  Corresponding PDF with Sage code rendered by SageTeX.
>
> 3.  A table tracking the necessary or desirable Sage patches to
> support this project.  Thanks to the folks who have been helping with
> these.
>
> I also have Tom Judson's abstract algebra text totally converting to
> Sage worksheets, and in a month or so will probably begin adding in
> Sage code to that.  Find the whole book as worksheets in a zip file in
> the Examples section.
>
> I'll try to update the status of the tickets regularly and will update
> the textbook as I complete chapters.
>
> (I've cross-posted to sage-devel from sage-edu, sorry for the noise.)

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage-enhancing textbooks

[RegB]

That appears to be very similar to what (I believe) I am thinking of.
The difference is that I am wish-dreaming a plug-in for Firefox, which
more of us use more generally more of the time than TeXMacs.
I am imagining the situation where we come across an expression and
would like to see a plot of it, perhaps experiment with it in various
ways.
With such a plug-in one would highlight the expression, right click,
drop down to "open in SAGE worksheet cell" (perhaps hit shift/enter
and get a traceback error), edit the cell to wrap plot syntax around
it, experiment, etc,

I think the tools probably exist, I just don't know where they are or
how to tie them together (-:


On Dec 18, 11:15 am, Jason Grout  wrote:
> On 12/18/10 9:50 AM, Jason Grout wrote:
>
> > It seems like something like this should be possible in TeXMacs, which
> > includes a Sage plugin (except I think Sage has to be installed
> > locally). Seehttp://www.texmacs.org/
>
> Some more details:http://wiki.sagemath.org/TeXmacs(apparently you have
> to install the Sage plugin.  I tried it quickly, and something didn't
> seem to be working right, as I didn't see the Sage session in the menu...)
>
> Or maybe I'm completely misunderstanding what you are suggesting.
>
> Jason

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage-enhancing textbooks

[RegB]

Yes, in a browser, most likely Firefox.
"Unprepared document" could be anything anywhere, including
a displayed .pdf file (within a browser tab).
The file that it is in shouldn't matter, it is just highlighted text
and I think once it is highlighted it is in the (OS's) clipboard.
I am not sure if it would be a browser plug-in or whatever it is
that tools attach to to use the clipboard (in M/S Windows) contents.

On Dec 19, 12:38 am, Rob Beezer  wrote:
> On Dec 18, 7:04 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I keep getting distracted with the code though (-:
>
> Me too.  ;-)
>
> > Here is a thought - probably not new to you;
> > How practical would it be to adapt the tools you have assembled to
> > enable a user to do the following.
> > 1) Drag mouse over an expression to highlight it, I am thinking about
> > text in an unprepared document.
> > 2) Right click to open a drop down menu that offers "edit in SAGE
> > notebook cell"  (approx).
> > 3) (User edits to SAGE syntax, etc.)
> > 4) Hit shift/enter, or click on evaluate.
> > 5) All the usual things happen from the notebook server.
>
> I guess it depends on where you would be reading an "unprepared
> document," and therefore where the drop-down menu would come from.
> Sounds like you mean from a browser?  There's been some discussion of
> making it possible to run interacts independent of the notebook.  If
> we had this capability, it'd be easy I would think to have a very
> simple, general interact that behaved like a toolbar (Sage code in,
> output back out), but it sounds like you want something better than
> that.
>
> Jason's suggestion of using TeXmacs is a good one.  Offray Vladimir
> Luna Cardenas was using the combination of Sage and TeXmacs heavily
> with his students, but I can't recall if something like this was
> possible.  Maybe searching through his posts or website might yield
> some ideas.
>
> Rob

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[sage-devel] Re: Error building sage-4.6.2.alpha1

[RegB]

4.6.1  built on a virtual machine here as an upgrade,
the 4.6.0 base was built on the same virtual machine.
Linux UBUNTU 10.10 within Oracle VirtualBox 4.0

Unfortunately the docs don't seem to have connected properly,
e.g. I can bring up the doc browser from the help link, but just about
every link
(e.g. tutorial) leads to a  "document does not exist" message.

I tried re-building the docs with;
sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E
which appeared to do a lot, but the linkages are still broken.

=
On Jan 16, 2:22 am, Simon King  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I tried to build sage-4.6.2.alpha1, but without success. The
> install.log is 
> athttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/SimonKing/logs/install.log
>
> My machine:
> $ uname -a
> Linux mpc622 2.6.34.linuxpool #0 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 19 16:32:19 CEST
> 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> It has four Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU         530  @ 2.93GHz
>
> $ gcc --version
> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5
>
> Best regards,
> Simon

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[sage-devel] Re: Error building sage-4.6.2.alpha1

[RegB]

"My BAD", as the colloquial saying goes.

For others who lose the web site docs when upgrading;
Type './sage -docbuild -D' to see the list of documents.

Then; sage -docbuild tutorial html -S -a,-E
and
sage -docbuild website html -S -a,-E
to get the tutorial back up.

Same for whatever else you notice as missing after the uograde.
I don't know if this should have been automatic with the upgrade,
but in my case it appeared to not happen.

\R



On Jan 17, 7:11 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 4.6.1  built on a virtual machine here as an upgrade,
> the 4.6.0 base was built on the same virtual machine.
> Linux UBUNTU 10.10 within Oracle VirtualBox 4.0
>
> Unfortunately the docs don't seem to have connected properly,
> e.g. I can bring up the doc browser from the help link, but just about
> every link
> (e.g. tutorial) leads to a  "document does not exist" message.
>
> I tried re-building the docs with;
> sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E
> which appeared to do a lot, but the linkages are still broken.
>
> =
> On Jan 16, 2:22 am, Simon King  wrote:
>
> > Hi!
>
> > I tried to build sage-4.6.2.alpha1, but without success. The
> > install.log is 
> > athttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/SimonKing/logs/install.log
>
> > My machine:
> > $ uname -a
> > Linux mpc622 2.6.34.linuxpool #0 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 19 16:32:19 CEST
> > 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> > It has four Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU         530  @ 2.93GHz
>
> > $ gcc --version
> > gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5
>
> > Best regards,
> > Simon

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[sage-devel] Re: documentation rebuild - how to force?

[RegB]

I tried this following an upgrade to 4.6.1.
The help link from the start page to the doc browser worked, but links
from there (e.g. tutorial) appeared to be broken.
Running  sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E  seemed to do a lot,
but made no difference to the broken links.
Then I did some more looking around and figured out the -D option.
sage -docbuild -D
which displays the document sets available.
I re-built all of them.

I feel that it should have been automatic with the upgrade to 4.6.1.
==

On Jan 13, 3:41 pm, John H Palmieri  wrote:
> On Jan 13, 11:25 am, kcrisman  wrote:
>
> > I think you have to use
>
> > ./sage -docbuild reference html
>
> > or some similar syntax.  This should force it.  
>
> This will build anything it thinks has changed since the last time.
> To force rebuilding the whole manual, the easiest (and most
> destructive) thing to do is to delete the entire directory SAGE_ROOT/
> devel/sage/doc/output/.  There is also a command which forces it which
> I always have to look up.  I think this should do it:
>
> sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E
>
> "-S" passes the rest of the argument to Sphinx, and "-a" builds all
> files (not just changed ones) while "-E" tells it to ignore old builds
> and build from scratch: see
>
> 
>
> --
> John

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[sage-devel] Re: documentation rebuild - how to force?

[RegB]

I tried this following an upgrade to 4.6.1.
The help link from the start page to the doc browser worked, but links
from there (e.g. tutorial) appeared to be broken.
Running  sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E  seemed to do a lot,
but made no difference to the broken links.
Then I did some more looking around and figured out the -D option.
sage -docbuild -D
which displays the document sets available.
I re-built all of them.

I feel that it should have been automatic with the upgrade to 4.6.1.
==

On Jan 13, 3:41 pm, John H Palmieri  wrote:
> On Jan 13, 11:25 am, kcrisman  wrote:
>
> > I think you have to use
>
> > ./sage -docbuild reference html
>
> > or some similar syntax.  This should force it.  
>
> This will build anything it thinks has changed since the last time.
> To force rebuilding the whole manual, the easiest (and most
> destructive) thing to do is to delete the entire directory SAGE_ROOT/
> devel/sage/doc/output/.  There is also a command which forces it which
> I always have to look up.  I think this should do it:
>
> sage -docbuild reference html -S -a,-E
>
> "-S" passes the rest of the argument to Sphinx, and "-a" builds all
> files (not just changed ones) while "-E" tells it to ignore old builds
> and build from scratch: see
>
> 
>
> --
> John

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[sage-devel] Re: FAQ suggestion: I'm a programmer, how can I contribute to Sage?

[RegB]

I respectfully disagree with some of the comments about copy editors.
One doesn't need to be a mathematician or an entry level programmer
to recognize that the installation guide is;
a) one of the first documents that many SAGE users use.
b) in need of some edits, particularly with respect to the sequence of
operations.
A good, even fair, copy editor would recognize this and could produce
a much more usable guide with little more than copy/paste.
Even I am able to point to passages that need to be moved before other
passages, e.g. setting environment variables PROBABLY needs to be
moved
earlier.
.
{Just a non-programmer, non-mathematician's opinion}
PS Not a copy editor either (-:


On Jan 30, 10:13 am, Niles  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm glad we've had a chance to think about this, and I hope we keep
> thinking about it, but I hope we can also *take action!*  The current
> status is this:
>
>  * The sage add on Meta Stackexchange exists -- go vote for it if you
> want to :)
>    http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/74983/open-source-advertising...
>
> * The add points to a wiki page which aims to address programmers
> interested in contributing:
>    http://wiki.sagemath.org/StackOverflowLanding
>
> * Now that we've thought about whether, and what kind, of programmers
> may or may not be useful, and what they may or may not be good at,
> what should appear on that page?  Currently it gives an organized list
> of links for learning about sage, and another about the development
> process.  What's missing, I think, is a list of suggestions, or
> specific ideas, which are interesting and appropriate.  Clearly we
> won't agree perfectly on this, but maybe there are some generally good
> ideas which can emerge anyway?
>
> thanks everyone!
> Niles

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[sage-devel] Re: Support contracts for commercial customers.

[RegB]

I don't know free market theory at all well - at all for that matter.
It would SEEM that if market pull exists it would have shown itself
by now, e.g. enterprising (3rd party) individuals would be selling
per incident and/or per year contracts to do little more than
search the docs and forums for answers to users' questions
and difficulties.
I know this became a cottage industry with Microsoft Windows
somewhen around Win95 and the small ads for Win7 persist.

Sage IS much more specialized and a much smaller market,
but surely SOMEONE would be offering installation support
and 1st tier answers quite independent of the sage group
if a market for it existed (?).
Perhaps the docs and forums are just too good (-:

I understand the "policy" issues of commercial IT groups, but
in reality they don't actually get much "fixed" (off-shore or on-
shore).
Promises of a fix in the next release maybe, but that usually just
brings a new batch of bugs and they DO know this.


On Feb 25, 6:16 am, David Kirkby  wrote:
> On 24 February 2011 17:28, William Stein  wrote:
>
> > I'm also curious about honest *opinions* about how people in the Sage
> > community would feel about a company making potentially gobs of money
> > selling support contracts?   What balance between profit and giving
> > back to the community would be appropriate?  What services might be
> > offensive, and what would be OK?
>
> People are going to make money from Sage. There is as you know a book
> being published on Sage. Both the publisher and the author will make
> money from it. Yet personally I see that as the best thing that could
> happen to Sage.
>
> As for the issue I raised as support contracts, then the following
> might be a method which would not irritate anyone, so has almost zero
> probability of losing any Sage developers. Use the money only to
>
> 1) Pay for extra hardware. I don't know if you have UPSs, but that
> would increase the uptime.
> 2) Pay for advertising Sage in maths journals, New Scientist, or if
> deemed appropriate, anywhere where the 4 M's are advertised.
> 3) Pay for targeted advertisements on Google - Mathematica, MATLAB,
> Maple might be nice keywords.
>
> Do *not* pay any individual Sage developer or a mathematician to work
> on some aspect of Sage, as that could potentially cause a bit of bad
> feeling.
>
> One could sink an endless amount of money into advertising.
>
> Make the "accounts" public. State the number of contracts sold
> (obviously not to who), and disclose how the money has been spent - X
> to Google, Y for hard disks, Z for UPS's etc.
>
> Personally, I don't feel the amount of money raised would be huge. But
> the fact commercial support was available, could make Sage more
> attractive to commercial customers.
>
> I believe if the money was not payed to any individual developer, then
> other developers would not mind providing the support for no cost.
> (Count me as one).
>
> >  * I'm curious if something like sagenb.org, but with Google ads,
> > would be offensive.   I could see somebody starting a small business
> > that is just public notebook servers that also have ads.
>
> Personally I have no objection. Even a "Paypal donate" button might be
> a good idea.
>
> > I haven't personally made up my mind about any of this.
>
> It's not an easy one. You need to be careful not to let it appear one
> or two developers are making money from the support contracts, while
> others contribute and get zero in return.
>
> But on the other side of the coin, you should realise that some
> companies will never use software that has no commercial support. I've
> also met companies that will not use free software, and critise those
> that do. They see "free" as "inferior".
>
> I once had a discussion with a sales rep from National Instruments.
> They were willing to give Labview to the university for a very modest
> cost. I pointed out to the sales rep that even a small amount of money
> was sometimes difficult to raise as the money was already allocated
> for something else. When I asked her why they would not simply give it
> free, her response was that something that if something is given free,
> it is often perceived as having little value, or of low quality.
>
> Sage remains free, but if commercial support contracts were available,
> it might help get Sage into industry.
>
> It strikes me Sage has many features mathematicians want, but less so
> what industrial users might want, so it might be hard to get much
> take-up in industry.
>
> >  -- William
>
> Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: Windows port status

[RegB]

Perhaps even farther off topic;
I doubt that Cygwin (Cygwin/X) is in any case a good path for many/
most MS_Windows
folk - from THEIR point of view.
The path to getting Cygwin/X up and running "usefully" on a MS_Windows
platform
is long and arduous for the naive user, e.g. it was so for me.

Oracle (Sun) VM_VirtualBox  installs as a MS_Windows program.
It is "culturally compatible" with everything the user is used to.
The learning curve to then install a standard Linux distro, e.g.
Ubuntu or Debian, then Sage within that is quite trivial.
VMware is another possibility, although I think that isn't "free".

For Sage to be adopted WIDELY by windows users the path
to getting it up and running needs to be simple and reasonably quick.
Cygwin /X does not (yet) offer that.

For my very simple needs/wants there has not been a performance
issue with Vista->VirtualBox->Debian->Sage, although it would seem
that Vista->Cygwin/X->Sage may perform better simply by having
one fewer layers  - Yes/No ?

On Apr 19, 7:27 am, Keshav Kini  wrote:
> Perhaps a bit off topic, but is there any possibility of Sage ever being
> ported to Windows natively, i.e. without cygwin dependencies? We have a
> couple thousand lines worth of shell scripts currently underpinning Sage,
> and we'd probably have to convert those to Python or something to make them
> portable to Windows, right? Does anyone know what benefits we would gain
> from not using cygwin?
>
> -Keshav
>
> 
> Join us in #sagemath on irc.freenode.net !

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[sage-devel] Re: 4.6.2 build on Ubuntu 11.04 alpha 3 fails on crypt.so

[RegB]

I had (what appeared to me to be) same/similar problems with UBUNTU
11.04
I had NOT attempted to install flask.
The "sage -fhttp://users.aims.ac.za/~jan/python-2.6.4.p10.spkg";
appeared to resolve that,
but I had to re-build docs to get the help and the tutorial up.
I run the plot3d examples as a check that the Firefox  java plugin
icetea is working,
it was not, so I had to install that via Synaptic package manager,
etc.

The first example merely paints the light blue rectangular background,
displays "jsMath" in the bottom right hand corner and "starting
applet..."
in the bottom left hand corner.
As I remember things JMOL is the display applet, but that doesn't
show its title.
BTW, the 2D plot examples in the same tutorial all work.

Any ideas ?

On May 13, 5:59 am, Jan Groenewald  wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 09:28:38AM -0700, Lilavati wrote:
> > On 24 Kwi, 15:26, pipedream  wrote:
> > > We expect below spkg to be in sage 4.7.1. In the meantime, if you 
> > > runUbuntu11.04(Natty)
> > > and stable sage 4.6.2, you can replace SAGE_ROOT/spkg/standard/
> > > python-2.6.4.p9.spkg
> > > with this:
>
> > >http://users.aims.ac.za/~jan/python-2.6.4.p10.spkg
> > However, I then installed the flask notebook (as 
> > onhttp://code.google.com/r/rkirov-flask/
> > ) and I get the error again:"
> > ImportError: No module named crypt
>
> The last command there is sage -br, and it perhaps rebuilt the p9 spkg?
>
> Try just do again
>
>   sage -fhttp://users.aims.ac.za/~jan/python-2.6.4.p10.spkg
>
> (I don't know flask, but I don't think this will affect it)
>
> Regards,
> Jan
>
> --
>    .~.
>    /V\     Jan Groenewald
>   /( )\    www.aims.ac.za
>   ^^-^^

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[sage-devel] Re: ImportError: No module named glib

[RegB]

Exactly that happens here too, although I am running 11.04 in a
virtual machine under VirtualBox 4.0.6

My other problem appears to be a regress of the jmol bug that
fails to plot3d.
Does your machine successfully plot3d ?
e.g. the simplest example from the tutorial;
x, y = var('x,y')
plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))

May or may not be related...


On May 11, 3:44 am, Jan Groenewald  wrote:
> Hi
>
> A One Time Error with Work Around...
>
> On Ubuntu 11.04, sage 4.6.2, plus python-2.6.4.p10.spkg
> to fix the crypt module, I start sage -notebook while firefox
> is NOT running, and get this:
>
> administration@aims-ethiopia-laptop:~$ sage -notebook
> --
> | Sage Version 4.6.2, Release Date: 2011-02-25                       |
> | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.        |
> --
>
> Please wait while the Sage Notebook server starts...
> ...
> The notebook files are stored in: sage_notebook.sagenb
> **
> *                                                *
> * Open your web browser tohttp://localhost:8000*
> *                                                *
> **
> 2011-05-11 09:37:11+0200 [-] Log opened.
> 2011-05-11 09:37:11+0200 [-] twistd 9.0.0 
> (/usr/local/src/sage-4.6.2/local/bin/python 2.6.4) starting up.
> 2011-05-11 09:37:11+0200 [-] reactor class: 
> twisted.internet.selectreactor.SelectReactor.
> 2011-05-11 09:37:11+0200 [-] twisted.web2.channel.http.HTTPFactory starting 
> on 8000
> 2011-05-11 09:37:11+0200 [-] Starting factory 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/usr/lib/firefox-4.0.1/xulapp-profilemigrator", line 22, in 
> importglib
> ImportError: No module namedglib
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Quitting all running worksheets...
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Saving notebook...
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Notebook cleanly saved.
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] (Port 8000 Closed)
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Stopping factory 
> 
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Main loop terminated.
> 2011-05-11 09:37:40+0200 [-] Server Shut Down.
> administration@aims-ethiopia-laptop:~$
>
> Then I open firefox separately, and run sage -notebook
> and it opens without error. This has to be done only once,
> thereafter sage -notebook will open firefox and the notebook
> without error. This has happened on four new laptops.
>
> Regards,
> Jan
> --
>    .~.
>    /V\     Jan Groenewald
>   /( )\    www.aims.ac.za
>   ^^-^^

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[sage-devel] Re: No plot with plot3d

[RegB]

This looks at least a LITTLE BIT like the trouble I am having under
UBUNTU 11.04
I am running within VirtualBox under Windows Vista on an amd64 laptop,
which has worked very well previously.
Plot3d has worked for me in previous releases of SAGE and VirtualBox
with various distros of Linux, mostly Debian and UBUNTU (Debian
based).
The applet seems to be JMOL (?) but I get lost when I try to trace
through what makes up the calls and what is passed in the process.

Oracle(/Sun) just released VirtualBox 4.0.8, which I am downloading
NOW.
I doubt that updating from 4.0.6 will have any effect on THIS problem.
Point is the success of plot3d DOES seem to be platform dependent.

No difference on VB 4.0.8


On May 19, 5:47 am, Ari  wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>                  I know that it is a topic already discussed earlier
> but
> I didn't find the solution to my problem. I am working with sage
> from the terminal and whenever I use the function plot3d, nothing
> happens. It was not working under sage-4.2, and it is not working
> neither with the  pre-compiled version of sage-4.6.2 I just
> downloaded.
> There is no error message, there is a small delay when using the
> plot3d
> function as if there is something in process, but then nothing
> happens.
> I am working on a MacBook Mac OS X 10.5.8, Intel.
> Is anyone can help me?
> Thanks,
> Ari

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[sage-devel] Re: No plot with plot3d

[RegB]

Although I have only been running UBUNTU 11.04 for a week or two
there are about 112 meg of updates outstanding, at least two of which
are to Firefox.
I am updating in the hope that java MIGHT be incidentally fixed and
will
try again.
Failing that I will probably try 4.7 - might even wait for the
"official" release.


On May 19, 9:01 am, kcrisman  wrote:
> Often problems with plot3d boil down to Java issues.  There is also
> another issue that has been fixed in the 4.7 series 
> (seehttp://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/9232) that had to do with
> this; 4.7.rc2 (which will probably be nearly identical to the released
> 4.7) has this fix.  Or you could just import the patches from that
> ticket.
>
> Also, you can always use (the not as well documented as should be)
>
> plot3d().show(viewer='tachyon')
>
> or use  viewer='canvas3d' when you are in the notebook.   (I think
> that's the right syntax.)
>
> - kcrisman

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[sage-devel] Re: No plot with plot3d

[RegB]

Thanks, I tried that and it is no better.
I would REALLY like to help with this IF it is a bug, but there is
at least a chance that I have some other system problem(s)
and/or that have a bad build.
Since 4.7 is "imminent" it probably isn't worth re-building
4.6.2, trying to re-create the problem, wading through logs, etc.
So I think I will shelve this for now and report back if it is still
present with 4.7.


On May 19, 12:31 pm, kcrisman  wrote:
> On May 19, 11:18 am, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Although I have only been running UBUNTU 11.04 for a week or two
> > there are about 112 meg of updates outstanding, at least two of which
> > are to Firefox.
> > I am updating in the hope that java MIGHT be incidentally fixed and
> > will
> > try again.
> > Failing that I will probably try 4.7 - might even wait for the
> > "official" release.
>
> You could try starting Sage and then doing
>
> sage: hg_sage.apply('http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/raw-attachment/
> ticket/9232/trac_9232_call_jmol_correctly.patch')
>
> then quitting, doing
>
> sage -br
>
> and then seeing what happens.
>
> - kcrisman

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[sage-devel] Re: No plot with plot3d

[RegB]

>From the fact that plot3d worked previously from the terminal and that
2d plots still work from the terminal with UBUNTU 11.04
I think we are still on track, i.e. in my case it is plot3d specific
and fails whether called from a terminal or a notebook.


On May 19, 5:46 pm, Kelvin Li  wrote:
> Please excuse me for pulling the subject of this discussion back to
> what I think the original post meant...
>
> On May 19, 2:47 am, Ari  wrote:
> ...
>
> > I am working with sage
> > from the terminal and whenever I use the function plot3d, nothing
> > happens.
> ...
> > Ari
>
> As far as I know, the usual "jmol" and "canvas3d" rendering engines
> will not work from the command line. But, you can save your plot as a
> PNG, as rendered by Tachyon:
>
> sage: var('x y')
> (x, y)
> sage: plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x, -1, 1), (y, -1, 1)).save("test.png")
>
> The above example will save "test.png" to your current working
> directory.
>
> As an aside, you can also export your 3d object in various formats.
> One example is the "obj" method, whose output can be viewed in Blender
> (www.blender.org).
>
> sage: var('x y')
> sage: a = plot3d(x^2 + y^2, (x, -1, 1), (y, -1, 1))
> sage: f = open("dump.obj", "w")
> sage: f.write(a.obj())
> sage: f.close()
>
> After downloading and installing Blender (which is very easy to do),
> do "File > Import > Wavefront (.obj)" and select the file "dump.obj".
>
> -- Kelvin

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage-4.7 VirtualBox image

[RegB]

I tried the .ova file with VirtualBox and it worked perfectly.
I tried it with VMware Player and it refused to load.

It is probably a likes/dis-likes personal preference thing, but I
liked
using just another tab in my already running browser on the host
machine.


n Jun 7, 4:54 pm, "Nicolas M. Thiery" 
wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 10:02:08PM -0700, Volker Braun wrote:
> >    You just have to quit Sage in the virtual machine and you'll drop into 
> > the
> >    Sage user's shell.
> >    E.g. press Ctrl-C, and run "./sage -combinat install"
> >    Should be documented, of course.
>
> Ah ok. I thought I had tried Ctrc-C to at least stop the notebook; but
> maybe I screwed up. I'll try again next time I get an occasion.
>
> >    Not setup yet but shouldn't be hard.
>
> Please :-)
>
> Cheers,
>                                 Nicolas
> --
> Nicolas M. Thi�ry "Isil" http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/

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[sage-devel] Re: sage -upgrade aborts - uncommitted changes

[RegB]

Thanks,
That appeared to work for me on all the repositories except local/bin
in that one I got the dreaded message;
"Not trusting file /usr/local/sage-4.7/local/bin/.hg/hgrc from
untrusted user xyz, group root"
I tried all the usual chown, chmod things on everything from sage_root
and down.


On Aug 22, 10:55 am, Maarten Derickx 
wrote:
> Dear Kevin,
>
> In the sage source tree there are multiple repositories, so you probably
> fixed it for one repository but still have uncommitted changes in others.
> Below is a list of the 5 repositories relatively to SAGE_ROOT (the . one is
> SAGE_ROOT itself)
>
> ., data/extcode, devel/sage/, devel/sagenb/, and local/bin/
>
> To check if there are uncommitted changes in one of these repositories you
> should cd to the directory an then execute
> sage -hg diff
> there

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