Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Harry Mahon]

Marco -

The Sunny Boy Storage "Advanced Backup Unit" accessory or ABU will be discussed 
at SPI in a couple weeks - first units are being stocked now at our warehouses 
in US.  The ABU will allow the SBS to be a grid former in case of utility 
outage, however there are no plans to have any generator inputs/controls to 
allow for battery charging from generator.

And yes, BYD BBox HV 5.12/7.68/10.24 devices will be supported when available 
in US (will be this year I understand)

Mike

-


The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.



It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner rather

than later I hope, BYD package as well.



And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.



Ta-dah!



marco



On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>>

wrote:



> Hi Marco,

>

> I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and Pika

> options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for myself, and

> found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer really wanted a system

> that would be to be able to charge the batteries off a generator in an

> outage, understandably. But the extra thousands in cost for OB ended up

> being prohibitive. Add-on rapid shutdown is a killer. So he's opting for a

> nice modern high voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but

> when there's an extended outage, he'll have to hope the sun comes out right

> after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he'll end up in the dark

> again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there's a high voltage inverter

> that allows generator charging, or a third-party battery charger, that I'm

> not aware of. Otherwise high voltage systems are very limited for backup,

> at least in winter storm scenarios.

>

> *Bruce Erickson*

> Mendocino Solar Service

> PO Box 1252

> Mendocino, CA 95460

> 707-937-1701

> 707-937-1741 fax

> bruce at 
> mendocinosolar.com

>

> *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994*

>

>

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Harry Mahon]

Marco –

I will need to ask for information about the BYD availability.  Once those 
units have all required listings/certifications and are available in US, they 
should be ready to use with SBS.  The CANBUS comms to the BMS has already been 
vetted, and they are on the SMA Approved battery list already.  But I will get 
confirmation on the immediate usability.

Best regards –
Mike




SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html>

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 10:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

Mahalo Mike.

Can you tell us please when the SS will actually be able to integrate the BYD 
battery platform in the north American market?

marco

On Monday, September 17, 2018, Harry Mahon 
mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Marco and all – yes that is the correct spec sheet for the BYD batteries that 
will work with Sunny Boy Storage.

SMA strongly would recommend the Sunny Island for off-grid in general and 
certainly whole home backup.  See the attached from Home Power April/May 2011; 
quad stack of SIs acting as UPS for the home – just charging batteries when 
grid is present, powering home with batteries/PV when grid is gone.  A dual 
split phase cluster is almost 24,000 W continuous (!) capability and can handle 
crazy power factor loads with no issues.  Built in generator functions and two 
relay positions per Sunny Island allow for lots of redundancy and fail-safe 
load shedding to be built in.

The Sunny Boy Storage (SBS) is designed to be a grid-tied inverter to allow 
higher self consumption of local PV power.  Even with the ABU to allow off grid 
operation (grid forming on its AC outputs rather than just on the dedicated 
120VAC Secure Power Supply outlet), there can be a several second delay in the 
switch from grid power to microgrid as the ABU must signal the Sunny Boy 
Storage that it has disconnected from the grid and that it is safe for the SBS 
to form a grid on its output terminals.  Also be aware that there is no 
master-slave configuration ability with the SBS – they will always assume they 
are acting independently on their energy meter input information.

Best regards –
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Harry Mahon]

Tump - You are right about the large number of times that has been asked, and I 
wish I had a happy answer.

However, with all the work on Sunny Boy Storage and Sunny Central Storage (and 
even a Tripower storage), resources to develop and test a split phase Sunny 
Island are not available.  There is active work on updating the communications 
to support SMA’s Ethernet based communications.  Still, this may be months out.

With the Smartformer being discontinued, the MidNite MNX-240 is the recommended 
part to create 240 split phase from one Sunny Island.

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html>

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Tump
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

I bet Mike could retire from the industry if he had a nickel for every time he 
was asked for/about that. I’ve asked Santa for years…… still waiting. T
On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:21 PM, Chris Schaefer 
mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com>> wrote:

Hey Michael from SMA, any chance we can finally get an 240vac SI here in the 
states?

Christopher

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Harry Mahon 
mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Marco –

I will need to ask for information about the BYD availability.  Once those 
units have all required listings/certifications and are available in US, they 
should be ready to use with SBS.  The CANBUS comms to the BMS has already been 
vetted, and they are on the SMA Approved battery list already.  But I will get 
confirmation on the immediate usability.

Best regards –
Mike




SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html>

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


<http://www.facebook.com/pages/SMA-America/140290312717395> 
<http://twitter.com/SMA_America> 
<http://www.smainverted.com/> 
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/364675> 
<http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL840A5336CAC32332> 
<http://smaadvance.com/signup/>



This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
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delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 10:20 PM

To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC


Mahalo Mike.

Can you tell us please when the SS will actually be able to integrate the BYD 
battery platform in the north American market?

marco

On Monday, September 17, 2018, Harry Mahon 
mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Marco and all – yes that is the correct spec s

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Harry Mahon]

ments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Tump
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

I bet Mike could retire from the industry if he had a nickel for every time he 
was asked for/about that. I’ve asked Santa for years…… €¦ still waiting. T
On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:21 PM, Chris Schaefer 
mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com> > wrote:

Hey Michael from SMA, any chance we can finally get an 240vac SI here in the 
states?

Christopher

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Harry Mahon < 
michael.ma...@sma-america.com<mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Marco – <

I will need to ask for information about the BYD availability.  Once those 
units have all required listings/certifications and are available in US, they 
should be ready to use with SBS.  The CANBUS comms to the BMS has already been 
vetted, and they are on the SMA Approved battery list already.  But I will get 
confirmation on the immediate usability.

Best regards –
http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html>

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


<http://www.facebook.com/pages/SMA-America/140290312717395> 
<http://twitter.com/SMA_America> 
<http://www.smainverted.com/> 
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/364675> 
<http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL840A5336CAC32332> 
<http://smaadvance.com/signup/>



This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches < 
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 10:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches < 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC


Mahalo Mike.

Can you tell us please when the SS will actually be able to integrate the BYD 
battery platform in the north American market?

marco
On Monday, September 17, 2018, Harry Mahon < 
michael.ma...@sma-america.com<mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Marco and all – yes that is the correct spec ssheet for the BYD batteries that 
will work with Sunny Boy Storage.

SMA strongly would recommend the Sunny Island for off-grid in general and 
certainly whole home backup.  See the attached from Home Power April/May 2011; 
quad stack of SIs acting as UPS for the home – just charging batteries when 
grid is prresent, powering home with batteries/PV when grid is gone.  A dual 
split phase cluster is almost 24,000 W continuous (!) capability and can handle 
crazy power factor loads with no issues.  Built in generator functions and two 
relay positions per Sunny Island allow for lots of redundancy and fail-safe 
load shedding to be built in.

The Sunny Boy Storage (SBS) is designed to be a grid-tied inverter to allow 
higher self consumption of local PV power.  Even with the ABU to allow off grid 
operation (grid forming on its AC outputs rather than just on the dedicated 
120VAC Secure Power Supply outlet), there can be a several second delay in the 
switch from grid power to microgrid as the ABU must signal the Sunny Boy 
Storage that it has disconnected from the grid and that it is safe for the SBS 
to form a grid on its output terminals.  Also be aware that there is no 
master-slave configuration ability with the SBS – they will always assume 
they are acting independently on their energy meter input information.

Best regards –
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html<http://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html>

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


<http://www.facebook.com/pages/SMA-America/140290312717395> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lg chem

[Harry Mahon]

Jay (and list) - SolarEdge bought 75% of Kokam for $88 million.  

BYD is a $17 billion (2017) company, and is the largest battery cell 
manufacturer in the world.

The BYD Battery-Box HV is supported by the SMA Sunny Boy Storage (SBS), but not 
the StorEdge currently.  UL listing of the Battery Box HV is in process, and 
they should be available shortly as another option for the SBS in addition to 
the LG Chem RESU 10H (type C).

Best -
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


      



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-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 8:47 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lg chem

HI Kirk,

SE bought BYD battery and I expect you’ll see them and not LG Chem.
As to when, that I don’t know, but would expect pretty soon.

jay
peltz power

> On Dec 14, 2018, at 6:43 AM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
> 
> 
> Does anyone know when LG chem batteries for Storedge inverters are going to 
> be available? I’ve heard nothing new for months thanks.
> 
> Kirk Herander
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost of service upgrade vs Solar credits

[Harry Mahon]

William –

Not sure what array size you intend to use, but with the Sunny Boy 3.8-US unit 
at 208V the max output power is 3.33kW (as current is limited to 16A for 
breaker sizing at 240V).  So 3 of these units gives “balanced” 3 phase 10kW, 
but at the cost of three inverters.

Two input channels available for each inverter, so you could have an east/west 
oversized array.  Our datasheet specifies the max STC array for the 3.8 is 
5396Wp. (Each input cannot be exposed to more than 18A Isc ever, but each 
channel will draw max 10A in operation.)  Each input channel needs 125VDC to 
start making power, then will work down to 100V (may be lower than CEC 
efficiency though – I would go for higher voltage fewer strings).

And this setup would give the customer three SPS outlets in case of utility 
outage.  Those outlets are 120V each, and cannot be synchronized.  Up to 2000W 
for each, subject to what the array attached to the inverter can produce at any 
given moment.

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 7:08 PM
To: Jerry Shafer ; RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost of service upgrade vs Solar credits

Jerry:

Thanks for the reply.  If we go three phase I believe we get to pick our 
voltage.  I understand the options are 120/208, 120/240 (open delta) or 
277/480.  277/480 won’t work for us because of existing equipment operating at 
240 VAC.  We have very few 120 loads so a stinger won’t hurt my feelings—I 
would pick the 120/240.

I can do an AB/AC/BC installation with many residential inverters, but at the 
less than 10K this become problematic:  We actually need to split the 10K 
system size into a 4K and a 6K to offset annual kWh on two meters.  By the time 
you divide these smaller systems into 3 inverters, you don’t have enough panels 
to meet the MPPT lower threshold.  This is where Enphase actually makes some 
sense.  Furthermore,  too many string inverters makes the job expensive.  It 
looks like there are real three phase inverter options and I will keep looking.

I won’t touch a Fronius.  The new equipment may be improved, but I am still 
burnt by a 500% failure rate of IG inverters and some serious character 
assassination by Fronius management in dealing with clients.

I misquoted the $20K cost to upgrade.  This number came from an earlier 
hypothetical scenario.  I need to get real numbers for this project to perform 
an accurate budget analysis.

Thanks for the great input, both online and offline.  I feel like we are 
family.  While the complexities of these projects can be a headache, they make 
the job interesting.

William

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA WLAN?

[Harry Mahon]

The WiFi on the Sunny Boy and Sunny Tripower CORE1 operates at 2.4 GHz.

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of AE 
Solar
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 9:48 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA WLAN?

Either but 5 is preferable.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 11:18 AM Kirk Herander 
mailto:vtso...@icloud.com>> wrote:
What frequency does the Sunnyboy Inverter (SB7.7-US) Wi-Fi use to 
connect-operate on? 2.4 or 5 GHz? Or both? Can’t find the answer anywhere in 
the SMA documentation. Thanks.

Kirk Herander


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Kiosk

[Harry Mahon]

William –
Likely the easiest way to do this is to get a Speedwire module for each 
inverter (SWDM-US-10). You can daisy chain the two inverters together with 
Ethernet cable once the modules are installed, and one output cable will come 
to a router/hub.

A windows based laptop/PC running the free Sunny Explorer software on the same 
local area network as the inverters can view the data locally.  This may be 
enough information for what you envision. More info here: 
https://www.sma-america.com/products/monitoring-control/sunny-explorer.html

If you have internet access from the router, you can also register the system 
on Sunny Portal.

Depending on the “kiosk” setup, you can do several things.  If no one can 
adjust the computer settings, you could just leave the display on the home 
screen of this plant on Sunny portal.  Also, the System overview page (or 
Energy and Power page) has a hyperlink that you can then embed in another 
webpage, so you could construct a Kiosk page as desired and embed the link as a 
image element.  This is a static image representation of the portal page when 
the request is sent, so you would want the page to re-load automatically at 
fixed intervals.

Feel free to contact me for more info.

Best regards –
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html

.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Kiosk

Friends:

I am in need of providing a public “kiosk”  to display the output of two SMA 
TL-22 inverters in a lobby.  I believe I need a web connect box, a data card in 
each inverter and that the system works through Sunny Portal.  I am reading up 
on the literature.

Sometimes the literature does not include the whole picture.  Does anyone have 
any experience with setting up a system like this?  Any words of advice?

Thanks in advance.

William Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] De- combining

[Harry Mahon]

Gary- I am assuming the array is 600v based on string length.  Perhaps a few 
more of the 33kW CORE1s might be a better design fit - could they be mounted 
off the ground at the combiner locations?  Then you utilize 8 of the 12 inputs 
of each inverter. This would require a couple more conductors go to each 
inverter location and become AC homeruns to an AC collection panel at Satcon 
location.
The CORE1s cannot run multiple inputs in parallel mode as the A and B channels 
of the current  Sunny Boys can, so I think what you are trying to do will not 
work.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to discuss further.
Best regards-
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer
SMA Solar Academy
916-918-9412
www.SMA-America.com/partners/SMA-Solar-Academy/overview.html

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of gary 
easton 
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 5:21 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] De- combining

Hello Wrenches
We have a project taking a 480kw carport array feeding a Satcon 500kw inverter 
and upgrading it to 8- 50 kw SMA inverters.   The SW 285's, in strings of 12, 
are combined in groups of 8 in the field then fed to the inverter DC input. In 
my experience SMA sells a rapid shutdown box with 4 inputs but only 2 outputs 
to pair with their Inverters that have 3 MPPT channels and they instruct you to 
combine the strings at the rapid shutdown box on the roof then install a 
pigtail on that wire at the inverter splitting it into two and sending the 
output of those two combined strings into two seperate MPPT channels.  We would 
like to do the same with combiner panels in reverse. I spoke with SMA and they 
are checking with Germany but I knew I would find info here.  Anyone with 
experience with this?

--
Gary Easton
Appalachian Renewable Power llc.  Proud to Celebrate over 10 years in business
Stewart, Ohio 45778
NABCEP Certified Solar PV #031508-29
T: 740-277-8498
 
www.arp-solar.com

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1naWgmhzXyvgE2nh4NH4Y9EBg5r5cUXUM&revid=0B9ql6_CVYv0OaHZQZDVDRUxSelVsZlIxOXNDYnNwejgwT01vPQ]
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) Product?

[Harry Mahon]

Wrenches – you are all correct about ensuring the surge rating. And now the 
battery + BMS must also be checked.  A few comments from SMA’s side:

The SBS must have the Automatic Backup Unit (ABU) accessory installed to 
function off-grid beyond the Secure Power Supply capability.
This unit includes (installed and internally wired): 200A contactor for grid 
isolation, control board to tell the SBS to become a grid former, a 5kVA 
autoformer, 50A breakers for 1 x PV AND 1 x SBS AC outputs, and Wattnode energy 
meter with CTS on conductors from 200A contactor.
Data sheet on webpage, listing** 60s and 100ms surge capability: 
https://files.sma.de/dl/30859/SBSABU-DUS185117.pdf

** Using a SBS 6.0 with battery whose BMS will allow that surge.  <-- Here the 
BYD Battery Box HV 10 would likely be best, as noted by many the battery BMS 
must also allow the DC power to meet this surge rating!  Eagle-eyed viewers 
will note this is slightly lower than one SI 4548-US surge.

The Sunny Boy Storage was built to be a grid-tied battery inverter, the Sunny 
Island to be an off-grid battery inverter.  Both CAN work well as grid-tied 
battery backup inverters, it depends on the customer needs.

Standard legal disclaimer – SMA never approves life-sustaining equipment be 
powered solely by our inverters.

Best-
Mike


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 12:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) 
Product?


Definitely agree with Kienan. The LG 48V project with Schneider failed because 
LG could not handle the surge of an XW6848. LG Chem indicated to me that the 
second half of 2019, they may announce something. I am working on a project 
that is running 17 Discover AES and 3 XW+. It has some issues but surge is not 
one of them.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 18:04:55 +, Kienan Maxfield 
mailto:maxfieldso...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Peter,

Just a quick word of caution... If you are going to need backup power then just 
double check that the surge capabilities of these inverters will work for you. 
I know nothing about the Tesla, but I do know that most of the newer battery 
inverters like the SMA Sunny Boy Storage, the Solar Edge StorEdge, Outback's 
Skybox, and others, often have pathetic surge capabilities. If Arbitrage and/or 
very small backup is your game then it's not a big deal, but for my projects, 
this instantly counts them out. Fronius was going to bring in a battery 
inverter (I don't know if or when) but their product was going to have the same 
problem according to the techs at Fronius that I know.

Now if you're comparing these against the SB "Secure Power Supply" then yeah, 
they can handle a lot of loads, but once you pay out all that money for the 
batteries, then most of my customers are going to expect a more substantial 
backup capacity.

Thanks,
Kienan

Maxfield Solar
maxfieldso...@hotmail.com
(801) 631-5584 (Cell)


From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 on behalf of Marco Mangelsdorf 
mailto:ma...@pvthawaii.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 10:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) 
Product?

Welcome back, Peter, to the Brave New World of grid-tie plus storage plus SGIP 
plus bulk services plus plus plus.

From my perspective, Tesla and LGC/SolarEdge are the furthest along in this new 
journey beyond the dinosaur designs and strategies of the 1980s to the early 
2000s.  At least if you look at the installation data from the two 
cutting/bleeding edge states of Hawaii and California.

SMA is somewhat late to this particular dance. That said, I find your comments 
below kinda shocking.

Blair Reynoldsare you out there?  I've found him to be one of the most 
knowledgeable SMA guys on the Sunny Storage front. If he doesn't respond, let 
me know and I'll get you two together.

Aloha,
marco

On Wednesday, April 3, 2019, Peter Parrish 
mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com>> wrote:

When I was a C-46 contractor in California from 2000 to 2012, I used to do 
about 1/3 of my business as grid-tied battery backup and off-grid. I came to 
focus on the Outback solutions in general, and later the Radian 8048 and 240 
A-hr AGM batteries.



That was obviously a while ago. I became an educator and a consultant helping 
California K-12 school districts become more energy efficien

Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt

[Harry Mahon]

Bill – A couple items:

  1.  The 3TL-US (along with all the STP TL-US line) has been discontinued, 
and I believe this particular model has been completely sold out.  Some 
Distributors may have stock remaining or you may have already obtained the 
unit.  As Blake noted, if you use this model, it is critical to pay attention 
to service connection requirements.  See technical document: 
https://files.sma.de/dl/7418/STP-US_MV_Trafo-TI-en-13.pdf and particularly the 
table and notes below on page 3.
  2.  Not sure where the array is located on this residential property, but 
single family dwelling roofs are limited to 600V (2014 NEC 690.7(C) or 2017 NEC 
690.7).  If that is where the array is, perhaps the 33kW CORE1-US-41 inverter 
would be an option – it is designed to work with high efficiency down to the 
350VDC level.  The 50kW and 62.5kW units are designed to work best with arrays 
closer to the 1000VDC limit – ok if the array is a large ground mount or 
possibly non-dwelling unit roof. This inverter family requires a 277/480 wye 
service, so a transformer would be required.  Transformer requirements for the 
CORE1 family can also be found in the above linked document.
Best-
Mike

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Blake Gleason
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 5:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt

Bill,

Watch out for the 480 delta with the SMA inverter.  Even though the product 
literature says it works, it doesn't.  If there's ever a ground fault (PV 
system or customer facility wiring) on one of the 480 legs, the other two legs 
will jump to 480V to ground (with much higher spikes along the way) and blow up 
the varistors on the inverter output stage which are not rated for this 
condition.  We learned this the hard way with 10 out of 24 inverters suffering 
complete failures on one project shortly after they were installed.  We're 
talking catastrophic component failure with bits of varistor all over the 
inverter boards and adjacent components scorched.  In the end, we installed a 
750kVA 480 wye to 480 delta isolation transformer to provide a reliable ground 
reference for the inverters.  In the process of solving this problem, we 
learned of several other sites with the same issue...

Best,
Blake
Sun Light & Power

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 3:44 PM frenergy 
mailto:frene...@psln.com>> wrote:

Wrenches,

I'm tackling a huge residential system that requires back-feeding 
the grid at 480 volts, delta (no neutral, right?). We're going to GT 30-50 KW.  
The SMA SB3TL-US-10 is one of the few inverters (apparently) that can do 
this, which I'm planning to use.  The inverter can be fed up to 1,000 vdc,OC. 
1,000 volt array is new to me.  I assume they have to accept the high voltage 
because its a 30K inverter with only 2 MPPT strings.  My question: Other than 
not getting fried during installation, what's different about wiring the array 
or anything else on the DC side?  I don't see anything in our current (2014) 
code cycle on this that's different than 600 volt.  Tips, advice?

Any links, past webinars, whatever else also helpful would be 
welcome.

Thanks,

Bill
On 4/18/2019 2:32 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
Hi Chris,

SWRC is the remote part name. SW-4024 is the inverter/charge.
I believe all the Trace products from that era use the same BTS with RJ11 plug 
so that should not be a problem.

Larry

[cid:16a32b673f0cc3c664a1]

On Apr 18, 2019, at 10:33 AM, 
ch...@oasismontana.com wrote:

Hi Folks:

Does anyone have a line on a remote option and battery temp sensor for a 
SW-RC4024 (in a customer’s motor coach)?  If so, please contact me off list.   
Thanks.

Sincerely,

Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309
406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com





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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

[Harry Mahon]

William –
Waiting mode means the DC voltage is below the inverter start.  For SB 4000-12, 
that would be 285 VDC (and will work to 250VDC once that is hit).

If you knock on the inverter lid, the display will cycle and you will see the 
DC voltage displayed.

If the yellow LED is not on, this should not be an AC side issue.

I do not think the “Backup Mode” parameter would be the cause, but if the 
voltage check shows well above PVstart, it would be worth a call to service.  
If the inverter was left in on grid mode, then it will work when the SI is 
creating a micro-grid with frequency within UL1741 limits.  If the system is 
off-grid, I would think the SB would have been set to off-grid mode rather than 
enabling Backup Mode to “on all” that allows switching from on-grid to off-grid 
parameter sets by RS485 command.

Best-
Mike

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:54 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

Friends:

I am working on an AC coupled SMA system in an off-grid setting.  We have an 
SB4000-12 that was disconnected for a number of years and we reconnected it.  
The inverter is stuck in the waiting mode and  will not generate power.  The 
Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys are connected via an RS485 communication system.

I suspect there is a programming step I have not yet accomplished.  I recall 
some years ago I programmed the other Sunny Boys for off-grid operation.  I 
can’t find anything in any of the manuals about how to check the programming.  
I also suspect SAM tech support talked me through this and the information may 
not be published.

Does this ring a bell with any of you?  Any advice?

Thanks in advance.

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985

Quote of the day:  “If there is a job you hate, get really,
really good at it. Maybe you will hate it less.“ W. Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

[Harry Mahon]

William - yes, waiting is usually waiting for grid to come back within spec or 
for DC voltage to get to start.  260 should be plenty.  208V with neutral 
should be fine without adjusting the jumpers.  Have you measured the AC voltage 
at the inverter terminals?

May want to contact service for this one.  1-877-697-6283.

Best regards –
Mike

From: William Miller 
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:40 PM
To: Harry Mahon 
Cc: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

Mike:

Thanks for the reply. Good information.

The AC system is 208. The data sheet indicates that for 208 the PV startup is 
220. Today we have 260 VDC. That should be enough!?

I checked EMT he AC frequency in case it was on shift mode. It is right at 
60.00.

Still in waiting mode. I had always thought “waiting” was for grid reconnect 
timeout...

William

On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Harry Mahon 
mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
William –
Waiting mode means the DC voltage is below the inverter start.  For SB 4000-12, 
that would be 285 VDC (and will work to 250VDC once that is hit).

If you knock on the inverter lid, the display will cycle and you will see the 
DC voltage displayed.

If the yellow LED is not on, this should not be an AC side issue.

I do not think the “Backup Mode” parameter would be the cause, but if the 
voltage check shows well above PVstart, it would be worth a call to service.  
If the inverter was left in on grid mode, then it will work when the SI is 
creating a micro-grid with frequency within UL1741 limits.  If the system is 
off-grid, I would think the SB would have been set to off-grid mode rather than 
enabling Backup Mode to “on all” that allows switching from on-grid to off-grid 
parameter sets by RS485 command.

Best-
Mike

From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:54 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

Friends:

I am working on an AC coupled SMA system in an off-grid setting.  We have an 
SB4000-12 that was disconnected for a number of years and we reconnected it.  
The inverter is stuck in the waiting mode and  will not generate power.  The 
Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys are connected via an RS485 communication system.

I suspect there is a programming step I have not yet accomplished.  I recall 
some years ago I programmed the other Sunny Boys for off-grid operation.  I 
can’t find anything in any of the manuals about how to check the programming.  
I also suspect SAM tech support talked me through this and the information may 
not be published.

Does this ring a bell with any of you?  Any advice?

Thanks in advance.

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Bonding battery systems

[Harry Mahon]

Wrenches – I am no code expert, but wanted to chime in to this important 
discussion.

Rapid shutdown (690.12) does not deal (directly) with arc faults at all.  The 
initiation of rapid shutdown is generally a manual process that a first 
responder triggers to reduce shock hazard. The RS system is not required to 
monitor the system for any faults on the DC side.

690.11 (DC arc faults) requires a system to “detect and interrupt arcing faults 
resulting from a failure in the intended continuity of a conductor, connection, 
module or other system component”(2017)  (by definition a series arc) – and 
note that this has nothing necessarily to do with a ground fault. A PV module 
connector that is being pulled apart and the current is arcing across the gap 
between pins is exactly what this is for – a very good chance that arcs create 
high enough temperature – even at low current – to start a fire.

A ground fault does not need to generate an arc (though likely will).  A ground 
fault is the unintentional electrical connection of a conductor to the 
grounding system.  Removal of insulation of a conductor that is resting on a 
grounded piece of metallic racking will do.  The conductor does not need to be 
physically compromised, just exposed.

Back to the original thread point - I agree that the sudden change in voltage 
state of the conductors is not optimal, but the delta between DC pos and DC neg 
will not change.  And the intent is that the GFDI fuse will blow when part of 
that conductive path has been referenced to ground (by the fault) out in the 
array anyway.  So nominal voltage would not be measured out in the array when 
the ground fault system is needed, right before and after the fuse blows.

The Bakersfield fire was the result of many faults occurring due to improper 
installation techniques, but led to the acknowledgement that the fuse grounding 
method presents a “blind spot” – the inability to detect a ground fault on the 
grounded conductor itself.  That fault will not necessarily present a hazard 
(no change in voltage and thus current of the already grounded conductor) but 
it also will NOT trigger the ground fault detection system.  Another fault 
occurring in the array then may have a return fault path for current that the 
GFDI fuse blowing cannot stop.  Much better summary than I can give here:
http://www.solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/blindspot/

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Darryl Thayer
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:18 PM
To: William Miller ; RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Bonding battery systems

Hi Bill, I have thought about it also.  The ground fault detection interruption 
system does elevate one of the conductors to voltage.  This makes it hazardous. 
 However, it also protects from a PV hot to ground arc fault.  There are three 
types of arc faults in PV systems, the ground fault arc, the series arc fault, 
and the parallel arc fault.  It is the parallel arc that was addressed in the 
2017 NEC via module-level shutdown.  The intent of 690.11 can not be addressed 
without 2017 690.12.b(2) where the detection of an arc must shutdown the array 
currents.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 3:42 PM William Miller 
mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
Wrenches:

Here is a question that has bothered me for some time:  If one is using a GFD 
(ground fault detection) breaker on a PV feeder(s) to a battery inverter 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Anyone try the new SMA battery inverter with Automatic Backup Unit? Couple of questions.

[Harry Mahon]

Howard - Some information related to your questions:

Yes, with AC coupling the output of the Sunny Boy Storage 6.0  (6.0kW) plus PV 
system is available.  For example, 13.7kW with SBS 6.0 at full output and Sunny 
Boy 7.7 also at full output (obviously daytime).  With 3 of the BYD Battery Box 
 10kWh units, SBS system scales up to slightly more than 30kWh usable storage.  
Yes, understanding and planning to customers loads is very important and will 
determine the customer's happiness with their system. The 50A breaker for PV on 
the ABU is appropriate for 40A continuous, or 240Vx40A = 9,600W.  The PV can be 
attached via breaker in protected loads panel downstream, but to ensure the SBS 
can throttle the PV production rapidly enough when offgrid, there still IS a PV 
size limit. If considering having more than 9.6kW of PV, please contact SMA 
Applications Engineering group.

When offgrid, the Sunny Boy Storage uses Frequency Shift Power Control (FSPC, 
like the Sunny Island). Some newer inverters will have Freq-Watt features 
enabled, "older" inverters will stop exporting power when frequency goes above 
60.5Hz.  Best to check with manufacturer on how any non-SMA inverter will 
respond - throttle or turn off.  The datasheet is showing a Sunny Boy with the 
hardwire communications as this provides for faster transition/smoother 
throttling and also supports the zero-export (grid-tied) use case.  For zero 
export, the SBS cannot adjust frequency and it requires a communication signal 
to control the PV power.  This requires a current Sunny Boy (likely possible 
with TL-US-22 as well, but I have not seen an example of this).

Feel free to contact me at 
train...@sma-america.com for any more 
information.

Best regards - Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Howard Arey
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 12:37 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Anyone try the new SMA battery inverter with Automatic 
Backup Unit? Couple of questions.

Excited to use this and even more excited that one of our sales reps with a SMA 
system has offered to be our guinea pig!

The ABU looks great - just got one to the shop today - it has transfer switch 
with full 200A capability, auto-transformer, easy inputs for BB-inverter, PV 
inverter, and smart meter with CTs built for smart energy management.

Couple of questions for those that might know, but does the AC coupling of the 
PV inverter plus the 6.0 BB-inverter mean I might possibly push their combined 
full output to downstream loads. Even though 200-amp capable ABU, hard to see 
how I do whole-house backup. We think we get to "inside the walls backup only" 
which is good except during middle of summer. A bit more than StorEdge power 
output.

Does anyone know the protocol for decreasing the output of the PV inverter when 
batteries are full? I think it is freq shifting but the diagram does show 
communication via the home router between the PV inverter and the BB-inverter. 
I'd think if this was a necessary communication, then SMA would have insisted 
on a hard-wire connection. Any ideas on what might be shared and for what 
purpose.

This also leads to last question and if freq shifting is the mechanism for 
throttling back PV inverter output, then I'm thinking that using any brand 
inverter would work.

Look forward to answers and to sharing more as I put this at the home of our 
Guinea pig...I means sales rep!

Howard "Scot" Arey
Owner, Solar CenTex
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
254-300-1228
scot.a...@solarcentex.com

www.solarcentex.com
https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex
Top-Rated Solar Installer in Texas by Solar 
Reviews

Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

[Harry Mahon]

Dave – how is Rapid Shutdown being complied with?  And what load requires 240V 
– or is that needed to “fool” the PV inverters?

With two SB-40s, you have the ability to wire for the homeowner two Secure 
Power Supply circuits – and get up to 2000W (at 120VAC) from each when sun is 
up and grid is down, no batteries or extra inverter needed.

This is exactly the “simple industry solution” you mention, and it has been 
available in US from Sunny Boys only since 2013.

Best regards -
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 7:41 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

Hi all,

I get asked this question frequently, as I am sure many others do, and of 
course the first answer is "it cannot be done". But can it? I have a customer 
who is very keen on trying to make this happen. After a few lengthy 
conversations, he still wants to try it, even after understanding the 
limitations (i.e. a cloud passes by and now you cannot power loads...)

I have some thoughts on how to make this work, and thought I would post it here 
to get others comments who I am sure have more experience in something like 
this than I do.

-PV system would have to be backfed, so that they can turn off the main breaker 
to disconnect from the utility entirely (and then have to look at the 
neighbors, or guess when the grid comes back)
-Have a fairly small 12V off grid inverter/charger than can be powered by a 
single 12v battery. This inverter would have to be manually turned off until 
after the grid is down and the main breaker is disconnected.
-Would also need an auto transformer to bump up the voltage to 240V. Something 
like the Outback PSX240.
-Once the main breaker is off and the off grid inverter is on, would it be able 
to wake up the grid tied inverters? On this project, there are two SMA SB-40 
inverters.
-There would need to be some kind of dump/diversion load to deal with excess 
power coming from the GT inverters. I have not used these in the past, but are 
the controllers smart enough to just deal with any excess power in the system?
-Have a trickle charger on the battery to keep it topped off most of the time.

-Another thought would be to DC couple. This would involve having a DC switch 
in one of the strings going to the GT inverter, such that when the house is 
islanded from the grid, they can flip the switch and have that one string go to 
a high voltage CC. Then they could just run some small loads off the power from 
that one string, or maybe we could allow it to try to wake up the GT inverters 
as well.

This particular homeowner specifically does not want much in the way of 
batteries and has a smaller budget than will allow something sensible like a 
Sunny Island.

At least in upstate NY, there are many people who would like to be able to take 
advantage of their solar when the sun is shining, but who just do not have the 
budget for a legit battery system. I am somewhat surprised that there is no 
simple industry solution for this yet, although ma

Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

[Harry Mahon]

If using SMA’s Rapid Shutdown System, the SPS function is available as RS is 
initiated in the manner you described.  If using the TS4 units for 2017 690.12 
compliance, the SPS function is not available on the SB US-40.

Each SPS circuit is independent – there is no way for two Sunny Boys to 
synchronize their SPS waveforms.

One SPS output can be wired to safely power existing circuits to avoid having 
to swap plug location for loads to be run by SPS. A small 120VAC circuit 
transfer switch like the unit from Reliance that Goal Zero shows in REIs can do 
the trick (link below).  The one shown by Goal Zero shows a NEMA 5-15 plug 
installed but since the SPS can provide 2000W, you would want to hardware the 
SPS into the similar hardwire Reliance unit rather than the unit with 15A plug. 
This transfer switch allows homeowners to swap up to four exiting home circuits 
from grid to SPS power should the grid fail.  The SPS switch for the Sunny Boy 
is still required in addition to this transfer switch
https://www.goalzero.com/shop/yeti-accessories/yeti-home-integration-kit/

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 8:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

Hi Brad,
Not a bad idea with this one to run the loads off the SPS's. Has anyone ever 
tried wiring these directly into a panel, rather than into an outlet? And do 
you know if the 120V signal from each one would match up, or do they work 
independantly? In other words can you wire both SPS into the same panel either 
on different legs, or on the same leg and use an autoxfr?

And with the Rapid shutdown and SPS. Does it not work with SMA's rapid shutdown 
box? I thought with those, the grid going down would not affect the rapid 
shutdown, and that it needs the signal from the controller to initiate RSD. So 
this way it will continue to work with the grid down.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:33 AM Bradley Bassett 
mailto:bbasse...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you're not using the SB -40 inverter's rapid shutdown system, it has the SPS 
Secure Power Supply which does just what your customer wants.

My understanding from talking to inverter mfg, is that trying to do AC coupling 
with a smaller battery inverters does not work because the anti-islanding in 
the grid tie inverter will be able to push the frequency off too easily.

Morningstar makes a 600 VDC charge control that has an array tran

Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

[Harry Mahon]

I replied to another message about code/RS.

Each SPS circuit is independent, so no 240V waveform possible.

And as was mentioned by Dave, be careful about planning to have motors or pumps 
be started  by the SPS.  The array cannot provide surge current like a battery, 
so the inverter is limited too.  So check the specs of heat pump…

Best-
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

Solar Academy: 
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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 9:07 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down

Hi Mike,
For rapid shutdown, we are on NEC2014 in NY. So module level is not necessary.

And the SPS is a huge reason for the SB inverters on this one. And in this 
case, it is almost exactly what the homeowner is looking for. But with the two 
inverters, can those SPS be wired into a panel rather than just into an outlet? 
So far, this customers house has not even been built yet. The barn is up, which 
is where the solar is going. So I am not 100% sure about loads, but there will 
likely be heat pumps.

So if the SPS's can put power the same panel, then that might be just what I am 
looking for in this particular case.

Although I am still curious if others have retrofitted other systems with 
something like I was initially talking about for an inverter that does not have 
a SPS. I think that at least in this market a low end 3rd party solution could 
gain a lot of traction.

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
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Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:58 AM Harry Mahon 
mailto:michael.ma...@sma-america.com>> wrote:
Dave – how is Rapid Shutdown being complied with?  And what load requires 240V 
– or is that needed to “fool” the PV inverters?

With two SB-40s, you have the ability to wire for the homeowner two Secure 
Power Supply circuits – and get up to 2000W (at 120VAC) from each when sun is 
up and grid is down, no batteries or extra inverter needed.

This is exactly the “simple industry solution” you mention, and it has been 
available in US from Sunny Boys only since 2013.

Best regards -
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SPR-5200 inverter parts

[Harry Mahon]

Dave – Definitely hard to find a transformer based inverter these days.

If looking for a SB 6000US (this is not an endorsement by SMA), you can look at 
Solar Cowboyz and their new division, You Love Solar. They have SB 6000US 
listed on the website:
https://you-love-solar.myshopify.com/

Please pay attention to their note that the unit DOES NOT have AFCI and does 
not include a DC disconnect (though they appear to have those as well)

If you go that route, and if the SP modules require positive grounding, ensure 
you swap the GFDI fuse holders and set the jumper correctly as negative 
grounding was the factory default setup.

Best regards –
Mike


SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: 
www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html

Full training schedule: 
https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html


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attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 12:21 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SPR-5200 inverter parts

Hi All,
I believe this was also a PV Powered rebranded inverter.
I have someone with one of these inverters which has stopped working. It 
appears that when it has AC voltage on the terminals in the inverter, there is 
no voltage on the wires that go to the transformer in the upper part of the 
inverter. Has anyone experienced this, and would a replacement board fix the 
issue? And would anyone have anything like that available?

And if not, can anyone even get a grounded inverter these days? Sunpower tells 
me to get a SB6000US, but I cannot even find one of those.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBX.X Warranties

[Harry Mahon]

Peter – The standard warranty on Sunny Boy US, Sunny Boy Storage US (and ABU) 
and CORE1 US inverters (installed anywhere in north america) is 10 years, and 
can be extended to 15 or 20 total years. The TS4 devices we sell are warrantied 
for 25 years. While promotional stock lasts, we have SI 6048-US units offered 
at a discount with 10 year standard warranty as well (please contact your SMA 
sales rep or Authorized Distributor to verify they are still available).

Please note that the warranty is also transferrable, so a Sunny Boy warranty 
can transfer to a new homeowner should the house it is installed on be sold 
within the warranty period.

Your SMA sales rep or Authorized Distributor can give you current warranty 
extension prices – it is based on device size and extension period.

Here is the current (effective July 1) warranty document outlining all of this:
https://files.sma.de/dl/2580/COM-RES-GB-en-54.pdf

Best regards –
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html

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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
peter...@pobox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 4:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Cc: peter...@pobox.com
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBX.X Warranties

I installed a lot of Sunny Boy, Xantrex GT, Outback GVXT, Fronius IG and IG 
Plus, and re-branded SunPower inverters over the many years, and I have 
promoted the SB line to both the in-warranty and out-of-warranty clients whose 
inverters have failed. I especially like the multiple MPPT inputs and the SPS.

What bothers me, though, is the 5-year product warranty. What happened to the 
10-year product warranty? Does one have to pony up $$$ to get a 10-year 
warranty for SMA. What about the the other manus?

I would like to stick with the SBX.X even if the -41 version does not come with 
a back plate.

So, is the std warranty for SBX.X products 5-years? Is there an  "upgrade" to a 
10 -year warranty, and what is the cost? What about about Solar Edge, Fronius 
IG Plus?

Any help would be appreciated

Peter Parrish, Ph.D.

President, SolarGnosis
1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351
South Pasadena, CA 91030
(323) 839-6108
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High Power Split phase inverter/chargers

[Harry Mahon]

Wes – Indeed, max Sunny Island 240VAC cluster is 4 units, so 23kW max BATTERY 
power.

Limit of roughly 27kW of PV (4x 120V x 56A relay limit = 26,880W) with that 
cluster if grid-tied with backfeed, so around 50kW max daytime load offset per 
cluster.  That may help if peak loads are always daytime?

Are you trying to take these systems off-grid, or just reduce peak load?

Best regards –
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html

SMA America Solar Academy webinars: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html
Choose "United States"

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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of wes 
kennedy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:38 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; Jeff Clearwater 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Power Split phase inverter/chargers

Hi Jeff,

I think the biggest split phase sunny island system is 4 units, so that's 24KW.

What do you do for larger systems? Segment the loads? Not always very practical.

This latest opportunity is for an agricultural building that peaks at 75KW.



-Wes Kennedy 303-653-3073


On Friday, February 21, 2020, 12:47:39 PM MST, Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> wrote:


All of my SMA Sunny Island Sunny Boy AC coupled systems greater than 12 KW have 
worked flawlessly and delivered reliable power and good monitoring for years.  
Less excited about my Schneider and Outback systems due to callbacks and 
hassles.  a bit more expensive but worth it IMHO.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

wes kennedy wrote on 2/21/20 9:41 AM:

Hi friends,

I keep running across opportunities with 50KW-300KW peak load requirements, on 
split phase services. Big homes, agriculture etc.

Outback, Schneider, SMA can all gang/stack into the 30-50KW range, but north of 
there, I am not finding many (any?) options?

Just found Aims Power 50 KW split phase unit with claims of higher power 
offerings by special order. Even the 50KW unit is $20K, so quite spendy. Any 
experience with these guys?
50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc TO 
220/230/240 
Vac

50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc TO ...

50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc Split 
Phase 220/230/240


Thanks for any input!

-Wes Kennedy 303-653-3073
on this list since the 90's



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Re: [RE-wrenches] High Power Split phase inverter/chargers

[Harry Mahon]

Wes & all – I want to clarify my prior post

If off-grid, the rule of thumb is no more than 2W PV per W of Sunny Island.  So 
that would be up to 46kW PV for 23kW SI capacity – there is no concern of 
backfeeding the SI relay when off grid, even with generator.

But if grid tied, the relay limit comes into play, and the 26.9kW PV size limit 
is correct.  But to clarify, when grid-tied the SI does not discharge battery 
to meet load, it lets the grid do that along with PV. Not built for peak 
shaving! When this setup is in backup mode, then it will provide battery power 
along with PV to offset load.

So it does really depend if this would be an offgrid setup or if the goal is 
peak shaving for a grid-tied system.

Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html

SMA America Solar Academy webinars: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html
Choose "United States"

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recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of wes 
kennedy
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:38 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; Jeff Clearwater 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Power Split phase inverter/chargers

Hi Jeff,

I think the biggest split phase sunny island system is 4 units, so that's 24KW.

What do you do for larger systems? Segment the loads? Not always very practical.

This latest opportunity is for an agricultural building that peaks at 75KW.



-Wes Kennedy 303-653-3073


On Friday, February 21, 2020, 12:47:39 PM MST, Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> wrote:


All of my SMA Sunny Island Sunny Boy AC coupled systems greater than 12 KW have 
worked flawlessly and delivered reliable power and good monitoring for years.  
Less excited about my Schneider and Outback systems due to callbacks and 
hassles.  a bit more expensive but worth it IMHO.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

wes kennedy wrote on 2/21/20 9:41 AM:

Hi friends,

I keep running across opportunities with 50KW-300KW peak load requirements, on 
split phase services. Big homes, agriculture etc.

Outback, Schneider, SMA can all gang/stack into the 30-50KW range, but north of 
there, I am not finding many (any?) options?

Just found Aims Power 50 KW split phase unit with claims of higher power 
offerings by special order. Even the 50KW unit is $20K, so quite spendy. Any 
experience with these guys?
50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc TO 
220/230/240 
Vac

50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc TO ...

50kw - 50,000 WATT DC TO AC PURE SINE POWER INVERTER CHARGER 384 Vdc Split 
Phase 220/230/240


Thanks for any input!

-Wes Kennedy 303-653-3073
on this list since the 90's



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stackable Battery-Based systems complying to IEEE 1547-2018 standard

[Harry Mahon]

Mac – what utility is this?

My understanding is that IEEE 1547.1-2020 contains the details of the testing 
protocol so that devices CAN be listed to 1547-2018.  It got published in late 
May 2020.

Are ANY inverters listed yet?  My understanding is testing is a months long 
process and that would if the testing facilities have finalized the process 
they will use.

Sounds like a way to force the transformer choice on you…

Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html

SMA America Solar Academy webinars: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html
Choose "United States"
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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stackable Battery-Based systems complying to IEEE 
1547-2018 standard

Hi Wrenches,

I am working on a design for an all-electric home whole-house backup.  The 
utility is requiring either an inverter listed to IEEE 1547-2018 or utilize an 
effective grounding transformer with associated relay control system.  Im 
unclear whether the grounding transformer is on the customer side or on the 
utility side, but I'd prefer to avoid this if possible.

I probably need ~20kW of continuous backup in this case.  I prefer to have 
everything stacked if possible, but I may be able to split up my critical load 
panels.

Has anyone worked through this issue?  I was planning on Sol-Ark but they don't 
comply with the IEEE 1547-2018 quite yet.  I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks

--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stackable Battery-Based systems complying to IEEE 1547-2018 standard

[Harry Mahon]

Dave –
Related but different.

CA Rule 21 and HECO Rule 14H and NE-ISO require equipment tested to UL1741 SA 
(which outlines what additional functions beyond UL1741 inverters must be 
capable of) utilizing the appropriate utility Source Requirement Document 
(SRD).  The SRD spells out which UL 1741 SA additional functions  -with set 
point values-  each utility wants enabled .  This allows for “smart inverter” 
functionality to prevent undesirable behavior.

The objective of the IEEE 1547.x updates is to harmonize testing across the 
industry to provide a uniform baseline for “smart” inverter 
functionality/capability.  I believe there will still be specific SRDs – that 
is, not all tested IEEE 1547-2018 functionality will be enabled by default.

I vaguely remember hearing of deadline for certification being at most 18 
months after publishing of the standard (which I think means the 
IEEE1547.1-2020 standard as that actually outlined the testing procedures for 
listing), which would very roughly be Jan 2022.

Also, I think “Hawaii” is being very aggressive with this deadline  – I think 
they (HECO?  HELCO? Other?) have set July 1, 2021 as testing deadline?  Anyone 
have more details?

Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765
U.S.A.
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com

Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html

SMA America Solar Academy webinars: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html
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delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 8:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Stackable Battery-Based systems complying to IEEE 
1547-2018 standard


Is IEEE 1547.1-2020 related to the issue in Hawaii  (HEICO) too much solar and 
cloud events that cause the transients? RULE 21 in California kind of thing? 
Or, it it different please?



Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall

[Harry Mahon]

Jon – if you are installing in PG&E territory, the Sunny Boys (with CA Rule 21 
settings enabled) will have freq-watt enabled, so they will reduce power 
linearly when the PW begins to increase frequency in backup mode as well.

As Jerry mentioned, this has been a required function that must be enabled in 
all grid interactive PV inverters in the IOU territories of CA for a couple 
years now, so not unique to the Sunny Boy.  Not sure how the PW moves 
frequency, but Rule 21 inverters will be at 0 power at least by slightly above 
62Hz.  The ramp is percentage of nameplate not actual production when ramp 
starts, so can be at zero production at lower frequency.

PG&Es required freq-watt: “When system frequency exceeds 60.036 Hz, the active 
power output produced by the Smart Inverter shall be reduced by 50% of real 
power nameplate rating per hertz (5% of real power nameplate rating reduction 
per 0.1 hertz)”
Page 196 of   
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_RULES_21.pdf

The Sunny Boy put into Offgrid mode has a linear power ramp of 100%/Hz starting 
at 61 Hz, so will be at zero by 62Hz as well.  This freq-watt is how the Sunny 
Island has been intelligently throttling Sunny Boys for many years.

Best –
Mike


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
August Goers
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 8:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall

Hi Darryl -

Yea, you have a good point. We have recently used the SMA freq/watt curtailment 
feature on a bigger off grid system with SMA Tripower inverters and a Tesla 
Powerpack. We programmed a curve into the SMA inverters so that the Powerpack 
can throttle SMA PV production on a smooth curve, rather than just binary 
on/off. We've done this with Sunny Island based systems too. I don't know about 
the ability of the Powerwall to do this. It's a good question. It gets tricky 
trying to meet the utility-approved grid tied settings while optimizing offgrid 
settings, especially when AC coupling different inverter manufacturers. So, 
we've been leaving all of our Powerwall and PV systems in the normal ongrid 
mode. The only real downside is that when the grid is down, and PV is producing 
more than the battery needs, it will just turn off, wait, and then back on over 
and over, rather than throttle. It is nice to have it just throttle, but not 
really a big deal for most applications that are primarily grid tied. I have to 
think manufacturers are thinking about getting that freq/watt curtailment to 
work across different AC coupled applications. That would be cool. That is a 
potential benefit of a all-one-manufacturer AC-coupled solution such as 
Enphase's Encharge or SunPower's new SunVault system. However, I don't know 
they're implementing that feature either, yet.

August

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:59 AM Darryl Thayer 
mailto:darylsol...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Here is my two cents worth.  the PW is "grid following" and so is the sunny boy 
when the grid is up.  When the grid fails the PW becomes grid forming, 
bi-directional, inverter charger with frequency shift to control charging.  The 
newer SBs will accept frequency shifts and be controlled.  So yes it should 
work, but I have not tried this, and someone with experience should answer.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:19 AM Jerry Shafer 
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Mr Hill
The PW is AC coupled so any inverter but the newer the better with Freq shift 
capable may take programming to work best.
Jerry

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, 10:03 AM Jonathan Hill 
mailto:solar...@gmail.com>> wrote:
So it can be used with a Sunnyboy, correct? Have you ever installed one?
Jon Hill
Solar design engineer
530-559-3781
solar...@gmail.com



On Jan 31, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Jerry Shafer 
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Tesla is ac coupled  you need the tesla transfer switch and a sub panel, 
everything into and out of that. But its AC coupled so there is that too.
Jerry

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 3:18 PM Jonathan Hill 
mailto:solar...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have experience combining some Tesla Powerwalls with Sunnyboy inverters 
ro other string inverters?
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racking identifaction request

[Harry Mahon]

Something like the T-slot railing?

https://www.mcmaster.com/t-slot-rails/


Michael Mahon
Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
SMA America
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com
Solar Academy 
website
Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: 
English
 and 
Spanish
[cid:image001.jpg@01D79414.78E9BD40]
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   [cid:image003.jpg@01D79414.78E9BD40] 

[cid:image004.jpg@01D79414.78E9BD40]
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confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Coxon
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 9:21 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Racking identifaction request

Strange request here.  I’m trying to identify the type of racking shown in the 
attached picture.  I have an application for an aluminum rail that is slotted 
on all 4 sides.  Basically need to have a rail that allows a bolt head to slide 
on any of the 4 sides so that I can make a box/table structure.


[cid:image007.jpg@01D79414.78F6B590]

Best Regards,
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
MWBE Certified

[cid:image006.jpg@01D79414.78E9BD40]

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA AFCI events and ferrite cores

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Bill - 
SMA is continuously working to improve the accuracy of our AFCI detection and 
minimize impacts on system operation of this important safety function.

Intentionally degrading the signal coming into the Sunny Boy for the AFCI 
detection to act on is not recommended.

The most up to date FW for both the US-40 and US-41 lines provide for automatic 
restarts from AFCI events.  An error message will be logged for each event and 
feed-in will be suspended, but the inverter will go back into production.  If 
these events occur with high regularity, PLEASE treat this as a true arc fault 
and carefully investigate the system.

The SMA Online Service Center hosts a large number of articles in the knowledge 
base for perusal (login is not required, but some articles will be hidden 
without login).

Please contact the SMA America Service Line for inverter/site specific 
troubleshooting recommendations and or login to the Online Service Center to 
view Knowledge Articles:
https://my.sma-service.com

SMA-America service line: serv...@sma-america.com  and 1-877-697-6283 (6am-5pm 
PT, Mon-Fri)

Best regards - 
Mike


Michael Mahon
Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
SMA America 
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com
Solar Academy website
Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish
 


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recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
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intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
frenergy via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:49 AM
To: Tump via RE-wrenches 
Cc: frenergy 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA AFCI events and ferrite cores

Wrenchers,

             In searching the list I saw ferrite cores discussed for EMP and 
Enphase but a tech at SMA just told me I can put the DC conductors through 
ferrite cores to prevent false AFCI events in their SB-40 and
-41 inverters.  Is this a thing? are folks doing this with success? Any tricks 
to installation?...seems straight forward.

Thanks,

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Dave - Unfortunately the SPS feature is not "back" fully.  Choosing "yes" 
during commissioning for the SPS feature allows for it to work (with switch and 
outlet installed) but ONLY for the same solar day as an outage occurs.

When the Sunny Boy goes to sleep, the sunspec transmitter will stop and the 
array will be in shutdown the next day.

Apologies for any confusion, as this is not the "same" SPS that we have been 
talking about since 2013

Please also note that choosing "yes" for the SPS feature during commissioning 
means the DC disconnect must be the Rapid Shutdown initiator, as the SunSpec 
signal must be disconnected from the array when the grid fails to trigger 
shutdown.  If the AC breaker or other AC disconnect is to be used as the RSI, 
"no" should be chosen for that second menu choice after "Sunspec" is chosen for 
shutdown method on tab 4 of the Install Assistant.

It is unlikely that this generation of Sunny Boy will improve the SPS 
situation, but SMA is working to fully reintroduce the SPS feature with the 
next gen Sunny Boy.  Stay tuned...

Best regards -
Mike


Michael Mahon
Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
SMA America
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com
Solar Academy 
website
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Installers in Nazareth, PA?

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Nik - Paradise Energy Solutions would be a good choice for that area.

https://www.paradisesolarenergy.com/

Best regards -
Mike


Michael Mahon
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
+1 916 918 9412
www.SMA-America.com
Solar Academy website
Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: 
English
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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Nik 
Ponzio, Building Energy via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2023 6:00 PM
To: RE Marketing for home scale RE industry ; 
RE-wrenches 
Cc: Nik Ponzio, Building Energy 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Installers in Nazareth, PA?

My cousin lives in Nazareth, PA and is ready to go solar. Any reputable 
installers serve that area?

Thanks in advance,
Nik




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Nicholas Ponzio
Building Energy
1570 South Brownell Road
Williston, VT 05495
npon...@buildingenergyus.com
http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com


"Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future"


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Overpowered mppt landing in a SMA-41?

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Bill - you got it - the inverter will hold at the 10A limit. When this limit is 
achieved, you will see a log entry for "derating mode"

The Isc limit for the US-41 is 18A per channel, this is the limit you cannot 
exceed.

Not sure if the US-41 is installed already? If you think you will have good 
conditions often, the SBSE US-50 line has 15A operating current limit per 
channel.

Best regards -
Mike


Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America website
Solar Academy website
US English 
TechTip
 channel
Upcoming SMA America trainings: 
English

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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Bill 
Battagin via RE-wrenches
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2024 7:17 PM
To: Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches 
Cc: Bill Battagin 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Overpowered mppt landing in a SMA-41?


Hey folks,

A customer I installed a system for 18 years ago now wants an 
upgrade, partly due to the Mitsubishi 170's high failure rate and the purchase 
of an EV.  The Mission PVs I'm looking at (at a deal I 'can't' refuse) have a 
rated current of just over 13 amps, a string of 10 is easily below the Voc 
limit.  The specs for the SB6.0-1SP-US-41 show a max current per mppt of 10 
amps.  I've never "pushed" this max amps limit quite this much, is there a 
problem?  I assume the inverter will just clip the input to 10 amps midday.

Would love some input, thanks,

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

Bill Battagin, owner

4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)

5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)

Taylorsville, CA  95983

530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)

CA. C10 Lic # 874049

Solar Powered since 1982

Home of the Sunny Side Up

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Re: [RE-wrenches] APS rapid shutdown

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Dave – w.r.t #3, I think this is mostly a requirement from the inverter 
manufacturer.

For SMA, there is a minimum DC voltage required in shutdown (when there is also 
no AC voltage).  This minimum can come from one string, that is, only the 
longest string needs to be over the minimum, the others can be shorter.

For the SBSE -US, Section 7.6 “Rapid Shutdown Equipment) (pg 28-29) of the 
System Manual contains this minimum (3.6 Vdc) along with other system 
requirements. So for the APsmart devices, this would be 6 or more devices 
required on one string, from the 0.6V minimum shutdown voltage APsmart states.

System manual link: 
https://files.sma.de/downloads/Home-Storage-Solution-BackupStart-US-SH-en-10.pdf

Please note SMA  commercial inverters may have a larger minimum standby voltage 
requirement, thought very short strings are not as common as in residential.

Best regards –
Mike

Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
3925 Atherton Rd
Rocklin, CA 95765
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America website
Solar Academy website
US English 
TechTip
 channel
Upcoming SMA America trainings: 
English

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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 8:03 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Brian Mehalic 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] APS rapid shutdown

Not sure about #2 or #3, but 100% yes on #1, which quite a few people 
(including the mfg?) “learned the hard way.”
Brian


On Oct 31, 2024, at 6:57 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Hi All,

I am about to use the AP systems rapid shutdown units for the first time 
(pairing with SMA inverters). I was reading through the manual and came across 
a couple things that I am wondering if others have noticed issues with:

1. The manual states that you need to keep the PV conductors from each inverter 
(there are two in this system) separate, or else there may be crosstalk. So 
this would imply that you need to have two separate DC conduits from the roof 
to the inverters, rather than one. Has anyone noticed if this is truly a 
concern?

2. The manual also states that there needs to be at least 20cm (or ~8") from 
the RSD-S-PLC to another piece of equipment (other than the module it is 
mounted on). I am attaching a diagram from the manual, but it sounds like if 
you have three rows of modules, the RSD's need to be installed on the top of 
the top row, the bottom of the bottom row, and you need an 8" gap between the 
rows for the middle row. The diagram in the manual makes this more clear than 
my words can. But has anyone not installed this large gap and had issues, or 
did it still work just fine?

3. Lastly, I don't see a mention in the manual, but is there a string length 
minimum? For some reason I thought with some of the older Tigo RSD units you 
needed at least 5 or 6 in a string, or maybe I am thinking of SolarEdge 
optimizers. I just want to make sure there is no minimum, since another job 
coming up will have a string of 3 panels.

I appreciate your experience!
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV watts question

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Are they adjusting the DC system size field along with the DC to AC ratio?  If 
not, they are just changing the inverter size without changing array size, and 
then at 1.5 the clipping is coming in to reduce the yield at the highest ratio.

Mike


Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America | Solar Academy | TechTip Channel | Upcoming Academy Trainings

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-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2025 12:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: jay 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV watts question

HI All

I'm working with a customer who's pretty savvy and is using PV watts for his 
design.

What I can't figure out is the kwh/year goes down if he uses dc/ac ration of 
1.5 instead of 1.2 which is the default.

Hes in Santa Fe NM.

.8   ratio=  1663 kwh/yr
1.0 ratio = 1668 kwh/yr
1.2 ratio =  1671 kwh/yr
1.5 ratio = 1623 kwh/yr

I was expecting that more PV = more kWh/yr.

What am i missing?


standard module
fixed roof mount
14.08 loss's
10 degree tilt
180 degrees



jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV watts question

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Most modern string inverters have a DC-DC boost phase to allow a wide DC 
voltage operation. Whatever voltage the inverter side works at is where the 
inverter will be most efficient, and thus generate less heat.

So it is not really accurate to say high voltage is worse than low voltage for 
the “heat kills” concern (which I agree with).  The same is true for DC-DC 
optimizers – they contain a boost/buck circuit that has an optimum efficiency 
point in the midrange of the DC operating voltage...

Current a bit more complicated but generally efficiency curves for inverters 
are pretty flat above 10-15% loading.   Obviously the same efficiency operation 
generates more heat when processing more power – so good thermal design 
matters.  And removing as much power conversion equipment from under the array 
should help reduce thermal load and cycling too (but that is definitely a 
biased opinion =)  )

Mike

Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America | Solar 
Academy | TechTip 
Channel
 | Upcoming Academy 
Trainings
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This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2025 10:21 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jerry Shafer 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV watts question

Wrenches,
So MPPT,s working at high voltage high and high current with even with the 
electronic switching you will generate heat and over time heat kills
Fun times

On Mon, Jan 27, 2025, 8:04 PM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Ahh I see the light now on the inverter size point. Still I wonder if all MPPts 
are made equal in terms if they ability to clip high ratios with no ill-effects.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 27, 2025, at 7:55 PM, Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> wrote:
Yes I’ve wondered about this too and there is much debate on forums etc about 
exactly how this works.

Large PV plants have long used 1.4 order of magnitude ratios to maximize 
economics (but much of that was under “per watt” incentives rather than 
performance based incentives).

However I’ve long wondered what the true effect of red-lining MPPTs is. I’ve 
seen it as more of a lifetime issue but I wonder that if you consider 
overheating of the circuit if we might actually be clipping more than just 
squaring the top off the curve.   Perhaps PVWatts modeled this?  They are 
pretty thorough there at NREL.   Or perhaps they have a bug or sloppy 
programming. It would be worth asking them. Anyone got a buddy at NREL we can 
ask?










Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 27, 2025, at 12:43 PM, jay via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
HI David,

My point exactly.




On Jan 27, 2025, at 1:35 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Jay you are right - that doesn’t make sense because with more PV, the system 
will reach “max AC out“ power sooner every morning and hold it longer into the 
evening




On Mon, Jan 27, 2025 at 12:20 PM George McClellan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Probably due to clipping.  The panels are generating more energy than the power 
electronics can process, so that excess energy gets cut off (or clipped).  It 
looks like a 1.2 ratio is optimal.

George McClellan | Senior Manager, Technical Sales | REC Americas LLC
735 Tank Farm Rd Ste 130 | San Luis Obispo, CA 
|93401
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
www.recgroup.com | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com




-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of jay via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2025 11:56 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Cc: jay mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV watts question

Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care when 
clicking links or opening attachments.


HI All

I’m working with a customer who’s pretty savvy and is using PV watts for his 
design.

What I can’t figur

Re: [RE-wrenches] PG&E Nem3

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

William - I believe the chart you included is EXPORT rate only.  So customer 
will not PAY > $3/kWh from 6-8 pm in Sep but whatever the TOU rate is as I 
think NEM3 customers are forced onto TOU - I think somewhere from 
$0.55-$0.60/kWh.  (If they can dump their battery into the grid from 6-8 every 
evening in Sep, they can bank a lot of credits!)

This hour by hour breakdown of export rates (and the fact the chart will change 
year to year, only get the value for year when interconnection approved) makes 
accurate calculation of return on investment in the system very difficult

And the credit amount I believe can only be applied to the energy cost, it 
cannot offset some other bill categories, like meter charge or distribution I 
think.  Again, making accurate financial calcs very hard...

Best -
Mike


Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America | Solar 
Academy | TechTip 
Channel
 | Upcoming Academy 
Trainings
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Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 2:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] PG&E Nem3

Colleagues:

I will be creating a Case Study web-page on this subject.  I have found this to 
be the most efficient way to present an issue to those that are involved, 
including manufacturers, service providers, and industry colleagues.  This 
prevents me from repeating my story over and over and allows me to easily 
present documentation.

In the meantime, attached is one of the most telling documents that pertains 
and below are some details.

The document outlines the NEM3 rate plan and lists hour-by-hour, month-by-month 
the rates that PG&E will charge and credit their grid-tie customers under NEM3. 
 Direct your attention to the "Delivered" columns.  This is the rates at which 
export is credited.  Note that there are many hours that the utility will 
credit you zero dollars for the energy you deliver to them.  Note also that in 
September I will be paying up to $3.84/kWh to purchase utility-provided energy.

An example of the "net" result of NEM3 billing in my case is this:  During the 
billing period that straddled the end of October and the beginning of November 
(refer to the attached chart for rates during that period) I exported 666+ kWh 
to the utility.  For my efforts I was rewarded with a whopping credit of $6.41. 
 This is from a non-battery system rated at about 11 kW, STC.

In PG&E territory NEM3 will be in effect for all applications received after 
4/15/23.  For all existing customers, their rates will be pushed to NEM3 after 
20 years from date of system commission.  The latter case applies to me. These 
are the early adopters that paid a premium and helped jump-start the industry.

I live in an unincorporated area of San Luis Obispo County.  Fortunately for me 
we recently elected a liberal majority on our governing body, a Board of 
Supervisors.  That majority allowed the introduction of an alternative energy 
provider (3CE Energy) in the unincorporated area after it was rejected for 
years by the previous conservative majority.  With 3CE I have been assured I 
will return to the retail-for-retail credit on exported energy.  My billing 
went on to the NEM3 rate in September 2024 and transitions to 3CE in late 
January 2025.  This means I will be in NEM3 purgatory for only about 4 months.  
Others in PG&E territory will not be so lucky.

More later.

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Is there a domestic content reqt for batteries effective now? For Residential?

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

This might be related to the technical correction to wording of 48E on 
percentages of domestic content??


  *   Correction to Domestic Content Percentages Under 48E: The domestic 
content applicable percentage under 48E for qualified facilities and energy 
storage technology would be revised to match current 45Y as follows:
 *   40% (or 20% for offshore wind) if construction begins before June 16, 
2025;
 *   45% (or 27.5% for offshore wind) if construction begins after June 16, 
2025, and before Jan. 1, 2026;
 *   50% (or 35% for offshore wind) if construction begins during 2026; and
 *   55% if construction begins after Dec. 31, 2026.


This content percentage wont matter to residential system owners - 25D still 
goes away at EOY, no domestic content requirements...
Only folks leasing systems can get the credit, THEN domestic content matters.  
PV Magazine has good summary article.
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2025/07/10/what-the-budget-bill-means-for-energy-storage-tax-credit-eligibility/

Wannabe residential battery owners will likely feel the most immediate impact 
of the OBBB.
Updates to the 25D residential solar tax credit, which covers solar panels, 
solar water heaters and related property like home battery storage systems, 
have significantly shortened the timeline for homeowners to access the credit.
Now, home batteries will only qualify for the 30% tax credit if they're 
purchased and installed by the end of the year before the credit phases out 
entirely.
There is a bright spot: residential systems leased from third parties will 
remain eligible for tax credits beyond 2025, as they rely on 48E instead of 25D.





Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America | Solar 
Academy | TechTip 
Channel
 | Upcoming Academy 
Trainings
[cid:image001.jpg@01DBF6F8.3FEB9E50]
This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2025 8:11 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: scot.a...@solarcentex.com
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is there a domestic content reqt for batteries effective 
now? For Residential?



I consider myself mostly pretty aware of policy issues that effect business but 
this paragraph in a Seeking Alpha investment article caught my eye.  Is there a 
new domestic content reqt for batteries in residential installations?

"The higher domestic content batteries comply with the new requirement in the 
U.S. federal budget law, which retroactively enforces a 45% U.S.-sourced 
materials threshold for solar and battery products starting June 16, 2025." 
https://seekingalpha.com/news/4468352-enphase-energy-begins-shipments-of-iq-battery-5p-with-higher-domestic-content#source=first_level_url%3Aportfolio%7Ccontent_type%3Aall%7Csection%3Aportfolio_content_unit%7Csection_asset%3Alatest%7Cline%3A1
[https://static.seekingalpha.com/assets/og_image_1200-29b2bfe1a595477db6826bd2126c63ac2091efb7ec76347a8e7f81ba17e3de6c.png]
Enphase Energy begins shipments of IQ Battery 5P with higher domestic content - 
Seeking 
Alpha
Discover Enphase Energy's new IQ Battery 5P with increased U.S.-sourced 
materials, complying with updated federal standards.
seekingalpha.com

Wanting to make sure I'm not setting up this years customers for issues getting 
the 30% Federal tax credit/


Howard "Scot" Arey
Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
TECL 29755
254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hybrid inverter with no battery

[Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches]

Sam - the SMA Backup Select is available for order from Authorized 
Distributors, but has not begun shipping (will likely be closer to Q4). Should 
be well under $1000.

Sunny Boy Smart Energy had the Backup Secure (old SPS) function to provide 
120Vac power to dedicated outlet(s), requires manual operation with dedicated 
switch.
Can use Backup Secure with or without battery connected to inverter, up to 
1,920W. Can also use with rapid shutdown on array, requires SMA Backup Start 
card accessory 9installs inside inverter) in that case.

The new SMA Backup Select is an accessory that is an MID with included backed 
up loads panel.  Still only 120Vac power in an outage, but automatic switching 
and powers up to 7 circuits in house (no need to move plugs).  Also can operate 
with or without battery, with or without rapid shutdown, up to 3,840W for 
3.8-7.7kW SBSE inverter, up to 5,760W for the 9.6/11.5kW SBSE models.
Datasheet: https://files.sma.de/downloads/BU-SLCT-US-50-DS-en_us-11.pdf
Installation Manual: https://files.sma.de/downloads/SMABackupSelect-IA-en-10.pdf

SMA Backup Home (full power of inverter in outage, 240Vac backed up loads) is 
likely not going to be available this year unfortunately.

Best regards -
Mike


Michael Mahon (he/him)
Solar Academy Manager  |  SMA America
+1 916 918 9412
SMA America | Solar 
Academy | TechTip 
Channel
 | Upcoming Academy 
Trainings
[cid:image001.jpg@01DC02BF.AA7F70C0]
This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC 
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended 
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any 
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently 
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. 
Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Sam 
Haraldson via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 7:09 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Sam Haraldson 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hybrid inverter with no battery

I have installed two of the SMA Sunny Boy Smart Energy hybrid inverters but 
only in a conventional solar-only, grid-tied design without batteries.

https://www.sma-america.com/products/hybrid-inverters/sunny-boy-smart-energy

There is a separate SMA Backup Select box required for off-grid backup 
operation and I have not laid eyes on it in person.

- Sam

[OnSite Energy]
Sam Haraldson
Operations Specialist
(406) 551-6135
1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715
Locally owned and operated since 2012
[B Corporation]

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