[RE-wrenches] Inverter Harmonic Distortion

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,

Is anyone familiar with inverter Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) specs? I
see that SMA, Fronius, etc have THD listed on their spec sheets but I'm
looking for a spec that details requirements for grid tied inverters.

Thanks in advance.

Best,

August


August Goers


Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs

[August Goers]

All -

I guess my thought is a little off topic, but are lightning arrestors even
worth using at all? My logic has always been that if lightning does indeed
strike that it's likely going to blow the arrestor and and inverter. We
don't have much of a lightning issue issue in the Bay Area so I don't have
any direct experience.

Best,

August

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Kristopher Schmid
wrote:

> It is quite ironic that just a week after I posted a question to the group
> on testing the integrity of lightning arrestors, I had one apparently
> faulty
> out of the box.  The manifest of this was interesting: when the AC LA
> (LA302R) was connected in parallel on the AC input to a SB3000 inverter,
> there was 125vac neutral to L1, 125vac neutral to L2, and 1Vac L1 to L2.
> SMA tech support suggested the LA as the issue and sure enough, it was.
> Attempting to test good and faulty arrestors with an ohmmeter gave the same
> result - off scale open.
>
> Any thoughts or comments from the group?
>
> Kris Schmid
>
> Legacy Solar
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> 715-653-4295
> sol...@legacysolar.com
> www.legacysolar.com
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters

[August Goers]

; -Inline Attachment Follows-
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: 
> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<http://mc/compose?to=re-wrenc...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>


-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs

[August Goers]

Jay -

I can see that point, but does that really effect insurance payout? It seems
like one could argue that a properly installed system with proper grounding
inspected by a building official has a lot more clout than and little grey
cylinder next to the inverter or disconnect.

Please all wrenches, correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember a single
time when there was a post about an actual lightning strike and a lightning
arrestor actually doing its job - meaning that an arrestor took a hit and
protected the array and or inverter. I've heard plenty of stories about
blown lightning arrestors and good equipment but no one seems to know what
caused the situation. It might be that lightning is hard to track and I
agree with that. And lightning might have been the cause. It would be great
to track lightning-fried installations to see what happened and what could
be fixed. If lightning arrestors are the solution then by all means we
should install them. Most of the time I think that proper grounding is the
solution although I wish that field experience would prove the point.

What do you think?

-A

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:28 PM, jay peltz  wrote:

> I also live in a area without much lightning, however I install one in most
> systems for the simple reason of insurance.
> If there is lightning damage, the insurance company can't use that as a way
> to not pay any claims.
> ie cheap insurance.
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> On Sep 14, 2010, at 8:39 AM, August Goers wrote:
>
> > All -
> >
> > I guess my thought is a little off topic, but are lightning arrestors
> even worth using at all? My logic has always been that if lightning does
> indeed strike that it's likely going to blow the arrestor and and inverter.
> We don't have much of a lightning issue issue in the Bay Area so I don't
> have any direct experience.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > August
> >
>
>  ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs

[August Goers]

Joel -



I'm interested in seeing the archived discussion but I don't have your email
address to email you off list.



Thanks, August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com

*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Joel Davidson
*Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2010 6:26 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs



Wrenches,



Allan Sindelar's 2003 RE-Wrenches lightning discussion compilation was a
keeper. Email me off-list for a copy. (Thank you Allan).



Joel Davidson

 - Original Message -

*From:* August Goers 

*To:* RE-wrenches 

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2010 6:00 PM

*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs



Jay -



I can see that point, but does that really effect insurance payout? It seems
like one could argue that a properly installed system with proper grounding
inspected by a building official has a lot more clout than and little grey
cylinder next to the inverter or disconnect.



Please all wrenches, correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember a single
time when there was a post about an actual lightning strike and a lightning
arrestor actually doing its job - meaning that an arrestor took a hit and
protected the array and or inverter. I've heard plenty of stories about
blown lightning arrestors and good equipment but no one seems to know what
caused the situation. It might be that lightning is hard to track and I
agree with that. And lightning might have been the cause. It would be great
to track lightning-fried installations to see what happened and what could
be fixed. If lightning arrestors are the solution then by all means we
should install them. Most of the time I think that proper grounding is the
solution although I wish that field experience would prove the point.



What do you think?



-A

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:28 PM, jay peltz  wrote:

I also live in a area without much lightning, however I install one in most
systems for the simple reason of insurance.
If there is lightning damage, the insurance company can't use that as a way
to not pay any claims.
ie cheap insurance.

jay

peltz power

On Sep 14, 2010, at 8:39 AM, August Goers wrote:

> All -
>
> I guess my thought is a little off topic, but are lightning arrestors even
worth using at all? My logic has always been that if lightning does indeed
strike that it's likely going to blow the arrestor and and inverter. We
don't have much of a lightning issue issue in the Bay Area so I don't have
any direct experience.
>
> Best,
>
> August
>

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org




-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
 --

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] lifting shingles

[August Goers]

Hi Bennett/Bill -



A 2:12 roof is 9.5 degrees. You might consider the ChemCurb product which I
believe is good up to about 10 degrees:



http://www.chemlinkinc.com/docs/brochure/chemcurb_v5p4.pdf



We use these all the time and I feel that they provide a very robust seal.
I've never used them on comp shingles but I imagine that you could use a
little extra M-1 to glue them down to assure that the self-leveling one part
sealant doesn't leak out between the shingle layers.



-August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Bill Hoffer
*Sent:* Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:30 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] lifting shingles



Bennett
I have a roof similar to the one you described.   It was designed for
coastal regions of Alaska, heat-freeze cycling and high winds.  Roofer
warned me that I better plan my penetrations because after season in the sun
I would never be able to lift the shingle again!  That being said have you
tried a hot knife?  L feet seem like the way to go! Good luck!

Bill

On Oct 7, 2010 2:05 AM, "benn kilburn"  wrote:
>
> salute, i was inspecting a (~3yr old) 2/12 pitch roof for an upcoming
install that was going to have flashed roof connection points and noticed
that i could not lift up any of the shingles for installing the flashing.
the sealing strip that holds the upper shingle to the one below it, is
aggressively stubborn. i tried several in the area of the array location and
they are all sealed down very well, much better than any other comp shingle
i've come across, which typically lift and separate from the 'sticky strip'
with a careful little tug on the shingle. all the ones i tried began to tear
the back off the top shingle that i was trying to lift. i'm told these are a
higher quality comp shingle and are well suited for low pitch roofs, they
have a 35 yr warranty.
> i contacted the shingle mfg. tech support and after explaining what i was
doing his suggestion was literally "try lifting them when its warm out then
try when its cold out, see if that works." thanks tips!
> my first thought was to use a torch to heat and soften up the shingles'
sealing strips that i needed to lift. i'm not surprised that the shingle
tech did not endorse this method. i'm not thrilled about it either. just
having a propane bottle and torch on the roof, risk of overheating (burning)
the shingles, extra time to do this, are things i'd prefer to avoid.
> i'm sure if done carefully this method would work, but i'm a little more
cautious than just trying it without asking around so i've been contacting a
few roofers i've worked with, as well i'm wondering if any of you have come
across this issue of having to lift particularly well-sealed comp shingles
and how you have dealt with it.
> if the consensus is to stay away from the torch then i'm prepared to go
with the good ol' l-feet on this one.
> cheers,benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A
SUNNY DAY
>
>
>
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Code reference needed

[August Goers]

Allan -



I believe you are referring to NEC 110.26(A)(3) Height of Working Space.



They talk about the 6" plane in that section.



-August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Allan Sindelar
*Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 11:12 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Code reference needed



Wrenches, what's the actual Code reference location for the requirement that
service equipment be within 6" of the same plane? I couldn't find where I
expected it in Art. 110.
Thanks, Allan

-- 

*Allan** Sindelar*
*alla...@positiveenergysolar.com* 
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
*Positive Energy, Inc.*
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
*505 424-1112*
*www.positiveenergysolar.com* <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] small offgrid pv kit

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,



I have a DIY client who is looking for a small $10 to $15k complete off grid
battery backup kit he can install himself. Email me off list if you have any
sources or thoughts.



Thanks!



-August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] small offgrid pv kit

[August Goers]

Hi William,



Thanks for your input. We install all kinds of grid tied and battery backup
systems but we simply don't have time to deal with DIYers like this.



So, I thought I'd see if any Wrenches happen to be into selling kits
directly to home owners. It's definitely not my cup of tea - I can foresee
way too much technical support, code violations, etc for me to want to get
involved.



Best,



August



PS: I used to install off grid systems in the late 90s in your neck of the
woods (Atascadero, SLO County CA) too.





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:28 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] small offgrid pv kit



August:

Off-grid and battery back-up are redundant terms.  If this is for an on-grid
home wanting battery-back-up, the process of integration involves many
aspects of an electrical remodel intercepting circuits, possibly installing
a small load center in an existing structure).  This requires an enhanced
electrical skill set and may be even more unsuited for installation by a
semi-skilled home owner than a battery-less grid-tie system.

Kits are problematic in several regards:  Every battery system we install is
different in requirements and configuration from any other.  The components
are heavy and a pre-assembled back board can be quite heavy and difficult to
handle.

I discourage the "kit" approach for these reasons.  If I have qualified home
owners that want to participate, I suggest they do mechanical preparation,
i.e. install plywood back-board, build battery box, set pole for TOP mount,
dig trench, and, at most, run conduit , etc.  We have found rocks inside
home owner run conduit, so even this simple task requires some training-
training which is hard to verify.

William Miller




At 07:44 AM 10/28/2010, you wrote:

 Hi Wrenches,

I have a DIY client who is looking for a small $10 to $15k complete off grid
battery backup kit he can install himself. Email me off list if you have any
sources or thoughts.

Thanks!

-August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.448 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3223 - Release Date: 10/27/10
19:12:00

*Please note new e-mail address and domain:

*William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] low batteries with a sunny island

[August Goers]

Hi All Battery Friendly Wrenches -

We have a situation I haven't crossed yet - we have a Sunny Island grid tied
battery back system system with a 48 V battery bank consisting of eight 6
Volt AGM batteries. The charging breaker feeding the Sunny Island in the
main electrical panel was shut off by another contractor for about 3 months
which caused the Sunny Island to slowly drain the batteries until it fully
shutoff in order to protect the batteries. The bank now reads 24  Volts.
That's low! The Sunny Island is, according to SMA, powered directly from the
battery bank and won't even turn on. SMA tech support is recommending that
we charge the batteries and then turn the system back on.

Any ideas about the best way to charge a 48 V battery bank?

Thanks for your advice,

-August

-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] low batteries with a sunny island

[August Goers]

Thanks all, this is helpful stuff. We'll see if the batteries are dead or
not which would be a real shame since they're only 6 months old... -August

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Mick Abraham  wrote:

> Hello, August~
>
> Assuming that you don't want to buy a proper (but costly) 48 volt deep
> cycle battery charger, here are a few suggestions:
>
> Find this Craig's List seller in Redwood City:
>
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bfs/2059216588.html
>
> and ask if they'll rent their 60 volt variable power supply to you for
> a couple of days. OR maybe you can beg or borrow a similar DC power
> supply closer to home & set it for 60 volts constant voltage. The amps
> on this one are tiny...only 5 amps...but maybe that's just what you
> need to gradually wake up that battery string. OR:
>
> 
>
> Connect a string of 120 to 150 PV cells in right polarity to the
> battery...with nothing but a fuse or breaker and a watchful eye. As
> soon as things come up enough for the Sunny Island to go live, you'd
> want to disconnect the PV's then allow the SI to complete the
> recharge, since the unbridled PV string would have no voltage
> regulation. OR:
>
> +++
>
> The eight units could be temporarily unwired from the Sunny Island
> unit, then wired up series/parallel (2s4p) as a 12 volt pack. I advise
> that route instead of Ray's suggestion (about charging 12v increments
> within the 48v string) because you'll have fewer cell imbalance
> problems if you connect series/parallel so every two batts can level
> their combined voltage against the other pairs. If all eight units are
> wired series/parallel for 12 volt nominal, that pack could handle the
> output from a  60 amp 12v charger intended for deep cycle AGM's but if
> an automotive type 12v charger is all you can come up with
> readily...use that...since you're only trying to bootstrap the system.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving,
>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
>
> Voice: 970-731-4675
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:54 PM, August Goers  wrote:
> > Hi All Battery Friendly Wrenches -
> > We have a situation I haven't crossed yet - we have a Sunny Island grid
> tied
> > battery back system system with a 48 V battery bank consisting of eight 6
> > Volt AGM batteries. The charging breaker feeding the Sunny Island in the
> > main electrical panel was shut off by another contractor for about 3
> months
> > which caused the Sunny Island to slowly drain the batteries until it
> fully
> > shutoff in order to protect the batteries. The bank now reads 24  Volts.
> > That's low! The Sunny Island is, according to SMA, powered directly from
> the
> > battery bank and won't even turn on. SMA tech support is recommending
> that
> > we charge the batteries and then turn the system back on.
> > Any ideas about the best way to charge a 48 V battery bank?
> > Thanks for your advice,
> > -August
> > --
> > August Goers
> > VP, Engineering
> >
> > Luminalt Energy Corporation
> > 1320 Potrero Avenue
> > San Francisco, CA 94110
> > O: 415.641.4000
> > M: 415.559.1525
> > aug...@luminalt.com
> >
> > ___
> > List sponsored by Home Power magazine
> >
> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> > Options & settings:
> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> > List-Archive:
> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> > List rules & etiquette:
> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> >
> > Check out participant bios:
> > www.members.re-wrenches.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ++
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] low batteries with a sunny island

[August Goers]

Jay,

Roger that - we're giving it a go right now (assuming we can get into the
client's house). I'll let you know how it goes. -AG

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 3:01 PM, jay peltz  wrote:

> HI All,
>
> One thing that is very easy is to just charge each battery with a 12v
> charger.
> Cheap and easy.
> You can disconnect them, charge them each or in parallel, then reconnect
> them.
>
> I"ve had to do it more than once, although not for a sunny island,
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
August Goers
VP, Engineering

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter

[August Goers]

Hi Bill and Wrenches -



For ungrounded arrays what specific fusing and or DC disconnect requirements
are needed compared to grounded arrays?



I'm trying to sort through the code but nothing is popping out at me besides
what was already mentioned about needing to disconnect both the positive and
negative lines on the DC side. In SMA's case I'm guessing that their new
transformerless inverters with integrated DC disconnects and fuses may
already take of all the requirements?



Best,



August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com







*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Bill Brooks
*Sent:* Friday, October 01, 2010 8:29 AM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter



All,



Transformerless inverters are simply a subset of ungrounded or resistively
grounded PV systems covered by the NEC in 690.35 since the 2005 code cycle.
Power-One has been marketing their ungrounded inverter in the U.S. for
several years now. It was listed by CSA. The requirements for ungrounded
systems in 690.35 are as follows:



*  "Photovoltaic power systems shall be permitted to operate with
ungrounded photovoltaic source and output circuits where the system complies
with 690.35(A) through 690.35(G).

-  *(A) Disconnects. *All photovoltaic source and output circuit
conductors shall have disconnects complying with 690, Part III.

-  *(B) Overcurrent Protection. *All photovoltaic source and output
circuit conductors shall have overcurrent protection complying with 690.9.

-  *(C) Ground-Fault Protection. *All photovoltaic source and output
circuits shall be provided with a ground-fault protection device or system
that complies with (1) through (3):

*  (1) Detects a ground fault.

*  (2) Indicates that a ground fault has occurred

*  (3) Automatically disconnects all conductors or causes the
inverter or charge controller connected to the faulted circuit to
automatically cease supplying power to output circuits.

-  *(D) *The photovoltaic source and output conductors shall consist of
the following:

-  (1) Nonmetallic jacketed multiconductor cables

-  (2) Conductors installed in raceways, or

-  (3) Conductors listed and identified as Photovoltaic (PV) Wire
installed as exposed, single conductors.

-  *(E) *The photovoltaic power system direct-current circuits shall be
permitted to be used with ungrounded battery systems complying with
690.71(G).

-  *(F) *The photovoltaic power source shall be labeled with the
following warning at each junction box, combiner box, disconnect, and device
where the ungrounded circuits may be exposed during service:

WARNING

ELECTRIC SHOCK HAZARD

THE DC CIRCUIT CONDUCTORS OF THIS

PHOTOVOLTAIC POWER SYSTEM ARE

UNGROUNDED AND MAY BE ENERGIZED

WITH RESPECT TO GROUND DUE TO

LEAKAGE PATHS AND/OR GROUND FAULTS.

-  *(G) *The inverters or charge controllers used in systems with
ungrounded photovoltaic source and output circuits shall be listed for the
purpose.



We now have several products newly on the market to include on the list such
as the SMA and Exeltech products. Ungrounding the array requires additional
fusing and disconnects, but the most significant difference is that the
module wiring and all external cable must be PV Wire/Cable. Therefore only
modules with PV Wire/Cable can be used in these systems. You must confirm
from the manufacturer that they have made the switch. Hopefully all
manufacturers will be installing PV Wire/Cable soon so that this will not be
a problem anymore.



It is a good call to use up your USE-2 and order PV Wire/Cable from now on.



Bill.



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Exeltech
*Sent:* Friday, October 01, 2010 6:39 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter



Transformerless grid-tie inverters are permitted under the National Electric
Code as of 2008.  The Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories (UL,
ETL/Intertek, CSA, etc.) took a while to develop the testing procedures for
testing to UL1741, which was the basis for most of the delay.

SMA isn't the only company with transformerless grid-tie inverters.  I know
of one American manufacturer with transformerless models on the market as
well.

Transformerless inverters are smaller, much lighter, and tend to be more
efficient than transformer-based units.  No transformer also means lower
product cost, and less shipping expense.  Win-win-win.


Dan


--- On *Fri, 10/1/10, Drake * wrote:


From: Drake 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 6:58 AM

I also received this advertisement.  Previously I had

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter

[August Goers]

Thanks, Dave.

Anyone have clarification on what exact marks to look for in "PV Wire?"

For example, the cables I see on a batch of Suntechs I have in the shop are
listed as "H+S RADOX SMART cable 4.0 mm" on the spec sheet but the only
listing I see on the wire themselves is RHH/RHW-2.

NEC Table 310.13(1) doesn't seem to mention PV Wire.

Thanks again for all your help.

Best,

August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Click
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:11 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter

I believe it's just:
Fusing on the +/-
disconnects break both + and -
Need your modules to use PV wire
labeling per 690.35(F)

Square D discos are UL'd for ungrounded systems- and I just noticed that
there's a June 2010 revision of the Square D disconnect guide. A bit of
clarification since the 9/09 edition I had.
http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Electrical%20Distribution/Safety%20Switches/Solar%20Disconnect%20Switches/3110DB0401.pdf

August Goers wrote:
> Hi Bill and Wrenches -
>
> For ungrounded arrays what specific fusing and or DC disconnect
> requirements are needed compared to grounded arrays?
>
> I'm trying to sort through the code but nothing is popping out at me
> besides what was already mentioned about needing to disconnect both the
> positive and negative lines on the DC side. In SMA's case I'm guessing
> that their new transformerless inverters with integrated DC disconnects
> and fuses may already take of all the requirements?
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
> August Goers
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> 1320 Potrero Avenue
>
> San Francisco, CA 94110
>
> m: 415.559.1525
>
> o: 415.641.4000
>
> aug...@luminalt.com <mailto:aug...@luminalt.com>
>
> *From:*re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Brooks
> *Sent:* Friday, October 01, 2010 8:29 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter
>
> All,
>
> Transformerless inverters are simply a subset of ungrounded or
> resistively grounded PV systems covered by the NEC in 690.35 since the
> 2005 code cycle. Power-One has been marketing their ungrounded inverter
> in the U.S. for several years now. It was listed by CSA. The
> requirements for ungrounded systems in 690.35 are as follows:
>
> *"Photovoltaic power systems shall be permitted to operate with
> ungrounded photovoltaic source and output circuits where the system
> complies with 690.35(A) through 690.35(G).
>
> -*(A) Disconnects. *All photovoltaic source and output circuit
> conductors shall have disconnects complying with 690, Part III.
>
> -*(B) Overcurrent Protection. *All photovoltaic source and output
> circuit conductors shall have overcurrent protection complying with 690.9.
>
> -*(C) Ground-Fault Protection. *All photovoltaic source and output
> circuits shall be provided with a ground-fault protection device or
> system that complies with (1) through (3):
>
> *(1) Detects a ground fault.
>
> *(2) Indicates that a ground fault has occurred
>
> *(3) Automatically disconnects all conductors or causes the inverter or
> charge controller connected to the faulted circuit to automatically
> cease supplying power to output circuits.
>
> -*(D) *The photovoltaic source and output conductors shall consist of
> the following:
>
> -(1) Nonmetallic jacketed multiconductor cables
>
> -(2) Conductors installed in raceways, or
>
> -(3) Conductors listed and identified as Photovoltaic (PV) Wire
> installed as exposed, single conductors.
>
> -*(E) *The photovoltaic power system direct-current circuits shall be
> permitted to be used with ungrounded battery systems complying with
> 690.71(G).
>
> -*(F) *The photovoltaic power source shall be labeled with the following
> warning at each junction box, combiner box, disconnect, and device where
> the ungrounded circuits may be exposed during service:
>
> WARNING
>
> ELECTRIC SHOCK HAZARD
>
> THE DC CIRCUIT CONDUCTORS OF THIS
>
> PHOTOVOLTAIC POWER SYSTEM ARE
>
> UNGROUNDED AND MAY BE ENERGIZED
>
> WITH RESPECT TO GROUND DUE TO
>
> LEAKAGE PATHS AND/OR GROUND FAULTS.
>
> -*(G) *The inverters or charge controllers used in systems with
> ungrounded photovoltaic source and output circuits shall be listed for
> the purpose.
>
> We now have several products newly on the market to include on the list

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter

[August Goers]

Helpful points, thanks Glenn. -August

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Glenn Burt  wrote:

> I just did a review of the TL inverters by SMA for possible use.
>
> A few points that are relevant:
> They require the use of an external fused combiner (they also sell). It has
> support for up to 6 strings, with both + and – fuse positions provided.
>
> The integrated DC disconnect has no fusing – it will accept only two
> conductors
>
> The manual says these inverters are supposed to be installed in threes
>
> They only work on 208VAC
>
> Obviously they are lighter than their transformer based cousins
>
> There is a warning to beware of stray array capacitances in excess of 2
> micro Farads or more and 50mA from the cells to ground or the inverter will
> disconnect
>
> Obviously an EGC is still necessary from the frame of the array
>
> Required clearance around the inverter has been increased to 12” (36”
> below)
>
> Replaceable varistors are used to protect DC inputs from high voltages
> (inside DC disconnect)
>
> Still 600VDC upper limit
>
> AC max conductor diameter is 2AWG, min is #6
>
> DC conductors - #10 to #6
>
> They recommend operating the DC disconnect once a year, 10 times to keep
> the contacts clean
>
>
>
> FYI – thought I’d share.
>
>
>
> -Glenn Burt
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *August Goers
> *Sent:* Friday, December 10, 2010 3:50 PM
>
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter
>
>
>
> Hi Bill and Wrenches -
>
>
>
> For ungrounded arrays what specific fusing and or DC disconnect
> requirements are needed compared to grounded arrays?
>
>
>
> I'm trying to sort through the code but nothing is popping out at me
> besides what was already mentioned about needing to disconnect both the
> positive and negative lines on the DC side. In SMA's case I'm guessing that
> their new transformerless inverters with integrated DC disconnects and fuses
> may already take of all the requirements?
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
>
>
> August Goers
>
>
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> 1320 Potrero Avenue
>
> San Francisco, CA 94110
>
> m: 415.559.1525
>
> o: 415.641.4000
>
> aug...@luminalt.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Bill Brooks
> *Sent:* Friday, October 01, 2010 8:29 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tranformless inverter
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Transformerless inverters are simply a subset of ungrounded or resistively
> grounded PV systems covered by the NEC in 690.35 since the 2005 code cycle.
> Power-One has been marketing their ungrounded inverter in the U.S. for
> several years now. It was listed by CSA. The requirements for ungrounded
> systems in 690.35 are as follows:
>
>
>
> &bull  “Photovoltaic power systems shall be permitted to
> operate with ungrounded photovoltaic source and output circuits where the
> system complies with 690.35(A) through 690.35(G).
>
> &minus  *(A) Disconnects. *All photovoltaic source and output circuit
> conductors shall have disconnects complying with 690, Part III.
>
> &minus  *(B) Overcurrent Protection. *All photovoltaic source and
> output circuit conductors shall have overcurrent protection complying with
> 690.9.
>
> &minus  *(C) Ground-Fault Protection. *All photovoltaic source and
> output circuits shall be provided with a ground-fault protection device or
> system that complies with (1) through (3):
>
> &bull  (1) Detects a ground fault.
>
> &bull  (2) Indicates that a ground fault has occurred
>
> &bull  (3) Automatically disconnects all conductors or causes
> the inverter or charge controller connected to the faulted circuit to
> automatically cease supplying power to output circuits.
>
> &minus  *(D) *The photovoltaic source and output conductors shall
> consist of the following:
>
> &minus  (1) Nonmetallic jacketed multiconductor cables
>
> &minus  (2) Conductors installed in raceways, or
>
> &minus  (3) Conductors listed and identified as Photovoltaic (PV) Wire
> installed as exposed, single conductors.
>
> &minus  *(E) *The photovoltaic power system direct-current circuits
> shall be permitted to be used with ungrounded battery systems complying with
> 690.71(G).
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low grid voltage fix

[August Goers]

Hi Joel -

Have you tried getting PG&E out to check the line voltages? I believe they
need to be +/- 5% steady state (ANSI Range A) or possibly +/- 10% (Range
B) or they need to fix it. 105 V is way too low.

Here in the Bay Area I have found that PG&E is very receptive to resolving
line voltage issues. They normally have a tech out to the site within a
few hours after making a service call...

Best,

August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel
Davidson
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:25 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low grid voltage fix

Wrenches,

It's Christmas time again in Southern California Edison (SCE) territory
which means low insolation and high regional electric consumption. Every
night SCE voltage drops to around 105 VAC or lower. Our grid-tie SW4048
inverter sees SCE's low voltage as a brownout and switches to autonomous
mode which is normal. However, we have only 4 kWh of battery storage so
the
combination of nightly brownouts and a series of cloudy days eventually
depletes our battery bank causing the inverter to do a low-voltage shut
down
which is normal. Power goes off in our home and we have to switch over to
SCE power, reset the inverter, and wait until the battery bank is
recharged.
How do we set the SW4048 to accept as low as 100 VAC from the grid before
switching to autonomous mode?

Joel Davidson

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Xslent?

[August Goers]

Hi All -

Have any of you heard of the Xslent XPX-A1000 microinverter?

http://www.xetenergy.com/#Tab-2_link-1

We're going up against them on a 10 kW system and I'm trying to figure out
if their claims about producing reactive power mean anything to us in the
real world. They are saying that their 6 kW system will outperform our 10
kW system.

I also noticed that their CEC efficiency is only 89%...

Best,

August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?

[August Goers]

Hi All -

Thanks for the helpful info! We did a little more research on our end and
I guess Apparent is the new brand name for the Xslent product. What
baffles me is the chart where they show that they're producing power
before and after sunrise and sunset:

http://www.apparent.com/products/mgi.html

The system must include batteries? Someone on their marketing team is
really going to town...

Best, August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?

HI Peter,

I agree with you that for now on residential it makes no sense.
However for commercial that might have to pay extra for PF issues, to have
the inverter adjust for this makes sense.
Its the reason they( inverter companies ) are doing it.
I"ve heard a better more complete reason of course from Bill Brooks, who
maybe can chime in.

sorry got away from me,


jay
peltz power
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Peter Parrish wrote:

> I can't understand how any inverter WOULDN'T deliver its power with the
> voltage and current 100% IN PHASE.
>
> When the voltage and current are not 100% in-phase that represents
reactive
> power. Reactive power flows positive for a quarter of the AC cycle, then
> negative for a quarter of a cycle, then positive and then negative. The
net
> result over one AC cycle is ZERO power delivered to the load.
>
> So reactive power is worthless.
>
> Worse, it results in higher currents (and voltages) for the same amount
of
> in-phase power, putting additional stress on circuits.
>
> - Peter
>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parr...@calsolareng.com
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
>

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field

[August Goers]

Hi All -



My shiny new copy of the 2011 NEC handbook just came in the mail and I've
started reading through it trying to decipher what changes we should be
expecting in the future. Although California is now just adopting the 2008
NEC which I'm quite familiar with, many jurisdictions will honor the newer
version of the code if we provide a good argument for them.

That said, does anyone who's checked out the new code have any interesting
comments or advice on changes that might affect us out in the field? Section
690.31(E) is interesting in that it has quite a few detailed requirements
for running DC circuits inside the building. Now it looks like MC cable is
acceptable but that there are many more strict requirements about how the
conduit or cable must be run. Labeling the DC conduit and J-boxes is also
going to be a change we'll have to get used to. Hopefully there will be new
reasonably priced label sources available. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying
that it's always been hard to find cost effective labels which can hold up
through the elements.

The grounding section also looks substantially updated.

As always, fun new things coming our way.

Best,

August


August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field

[August Goers]

Mark -

Check out necplus:

http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?title=&category_name=2011+National
+Electrical+Code+(NEC)&pid=necplus&target_pid=necplus&src_pid=&link_type=c
ategory

http://www.necplus.org

This is a subscription based service from the NFPA and gives access to
both current code and a few previous cycles. It is searchable. We recently
signed up and we're liking it so far.

-August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:12 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field

Does anyone here have the 2011 Code available on CD in a searchable
format?
Know where to get it?

Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August
Goers
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 8:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field

Hi All -



My shiny new copy of the 2011 NEC handbook just came in the mail and I've
started reading through it trying to decipher what changes we should be
expecting in the future. Although California is now just adopting the 2008
NEC which I'm quite familiar with, many jurisdictions will honor the newer
version of the code if we provide a good argument for them.

That said, does anyone who's checked out the new code have any interesting
comments or advice on changes that might affect us out in the field?
Section
690.31(E) is interesting in that it has quite a few detailed requirements
for running DC circuits inside the building. Now it looks like MC cable is
acceptable but that there are many more strict requirements about how the
conduit or cable must be run. Labeling the DC conduit and J-boxes is also
going to be a change we'll have to get used to. Hopefully there will be
new
reasonably priced label sources available. I'm sure I'm not alone in
saying
that it's always been hard to find cost effective labels which can hold up
through the elements.

The grounding section also looks substantially updated.

As always, fun new things coming our way.

Best,

August


August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass

[August Goers]

Hi Kelly -

Sounds like a fun project. We've got a few 10+ kW grid tied Sunny Island
projects and although they are not with Enphase inverters I thought I'd
pass on how we've been wiring them up with good results.

We tie the solar inverters into the critical loads panel and then put a
transfer switch (either auto or manual depending on the client's choice)
between the main and critical loads panel. The Sunny Island(s) output
circuit (AC1) is also tied into the critical loads panel and the AC2
connection is tied into the main. During normal on-grid operation the PV
is tied directly to the main through the critical loads panel and transfer
switch so there are no losses through the Sunny Island. The Sunny Island
at that point is simply keeping the batteries charged though the AC2
connection and monitoring the grid. When the grid goes down the transfer
switch disconnects the critical loads panel from the main and the Sunny
Island kicks in. The PV inverters shut off immediately during the switch
but then kick into waiting mode once receiving the signal from the Sunny
Island. The PV stays on during the grid outage until the batteries are
fully charged then the voltage increases until the PV turns off, goes back
into waiting mode and the whole process repeats - this is assuming that
we're getting more PV than load. I've tested both scenarios and if the
load is larger than the PV then the inverters will stay on indefinitely.


What was your reasoning for tying the PV into the main and using a relay
to switch to the critical loads panel during a power outage?

Best,

August


August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly
Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:33 PM
To: RE Wrenches listserve
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor &
bypass

Wrenches,
We are including 2 Sunny Island inverters into a previously battery-
less grid tied design utilizing 20 kW of PV on Enphase micro inverters
and 2 SMA Windy Boy 6000 inverters (10 kW XZERES 442 turbine). Our
customer wishes to run his fuel generator as little as possible when
the grid goes down. Nothing is in the power room yet, the house is
under construction. Only the wind turbine is installed.

With a pass-through limit of 56A, the two Sunny Islands cannot conduct
the combined RE production to the grid. There is not enough critical
load demand to justify two more SI's, nor is there space for them. Our
plan is to connect the micro-inverters (84A, peak) directly to the
main service (grid) in normal mode, switching to the critical load
panel (SI AC output) when the grid goes down. The Windy Boys (56A)
would remain connected to the critical load panel.

I'm hoping that the frequency shifting control of the Windy Boys from
the SI's will allow the PV micro inverters to connect and stay
connected to the SI's while there is demand on the critical loads and
the batteries are charging. When there is more PV output than load
demand we expect that the SI frequency will rise to the point where
the micros will go out of spec and disconnect, maybe in a nicely
staggered pattern.

Questions:

1. Has anyone experience with this much grid-direct RE capacity and/or
micro-inverters AC coupled to Sunny Islands? I'm a little scared by a
previous post from Darryl wherein he found that the RE capacity from
the GD inverters should be 1/2 that of the battery-based inverters in
an AC coupled system. Please let me know if you are certain that this
is not going to work!

2. Any experience with specifying a contactor/relay to switch the PV
output? The contactor will be controlled by one of the SI relays.
Switching from the main panel (grid) to the critical load panel will
be during a grid outage, so doesn't need to be load-rated, but
switching back after the grid comes back up could be load-break. Our
current solution is to use two 80A contactors from Schneider
(#LC1D80G7) with an intertie kit.

3. Any suggestions for an inverter bypass (service disconnect) for the
two SI's? We're considering either a monster 2P2T 200A switch (100 A
would do), or using a gen-transfer type panel for the critical loads.

Comments and informed opinions quite welcome.

Thanks,
-Kelly

Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
Principal
Whidbey Sun & Wind
Renewable Energy Systems
ke...@whidbeysunwind.com
PH & FAX: 360.678.7131
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
WA Electrical Administrator







___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/piperm

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass

[August Goers]

Hi Kelly -

Yes, AC1 from the Sunny Island is always connected to the critical loads
panel. During on-grid operation the critical loads panel is fed solely
through the main panel and transfer switch, not through the Sunny Island.
I see your question about paralleling the critical loads panel through
both the external transfer switch and the Sunny Island. It's been a while
since I've contacted SMA about this but my understanding is that the Sunny
Island is "smart" and since it sees that there is already power on the
critical loads panel it will not backfeed the critical panel until it sees
that the main power goes down.

When the grid power goes down the automatic transfer switch flips very
quickly to backup mode and the Sunny Island immediately kicks in. It
happens so fast that the first few times I was testing it I was caught off
guard and thought that something was wrong. In fact it was flipping to
backup mode so fast that I didn't even see the lights flicker. Even though
this switch is really quick the grid tied inverters still trip off in my
experience.

Does this address your thoughts?

Best,

August



-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly
Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor
& bypass

Hi August,
To make sure I'm clear:
Does the Sunny Island output (AC1) stay connected to the critical load
panel while at the same time fed directly from the main panel?

If so, is there no issue with the critical loads being fed through
multiple paths? And, why, then, would the GD inverters switch off
during the switch if they continue to have an AC signal from the SI's.

If not, you must be switching the critical load panel feed between the
SI AC1 and main, via the transfer switch. And, the drawback would be
that the critical loads would not have an uninterruptible power supply
during a grid outage.

Thanks for your description. This certainly sounds simpler than my plan.

-Kelly

Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
Whidbey Sun & Wind
Renewable Energy Systems
ke...@whidbeysunwind.com
360-678-7131




On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:23 AM, August Goers wrote:

> Hi Kelly -
>
> Sounds like a fun project. We've got a few 10+ kW grid tied Sunny
> Island
> projects and although they are not with Enphase inverters I thought
> I'd
> pass on how we've been wiring them up with good results.
>
> We tie the solar inverters into the critical loads panel and then
> put a
> transfer switch (either auto or manual depending on the client's
> choice)
> between the main and critical loads panel. The Sunny Island(s) output
> circuit (AC1) is also tied into the critical loads panel and the AC2
> connection is tied into the main. During normal on-grid operation
> the PV
> is tied directly to the main through the critical loads panel and
> transfer
> switch so there are no losses through the Sunny Island. The Sunny
> Island
> at that point is simply keeping the batteries charged though the AC2
> connection and monitoring the grid. When the grid goes down the
> transfer
> switch disconnects the critical loads panel from the main and the
> Sunny
> Island kicks in. The PV inverters shut off immediately during the
> switch
> but then kick into waiting mode once receiving the signal from the
> Sunny
> Island. The PV stays on during the grid outage until the batteries are
> fully charged then the voltage increases until the PV turns off,
> goes back
> into waiting mode and the whole process repeats - this is assuming
> that
> we're getting more PV than load. I've tested both scenarios and if the
> load is larger than the PV then the inverters will stay on
> indefinitely.
>
>
> What was your reasoning for tying the PV into the main and using a
> relay
> to switch to the critical loads panel during a power outage?
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
>
> August Goers
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
> 1320 Potrero Avenue
> San Francisco, CA 94110
> m: 415.559.1525
> o: 415.641.4000
> aug...@luminalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly
> Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:33 PM
> To: RE Wrenches listserve
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island -
> contactor &
> bypass
>
> Wrenches,
> We are including 2 Sunny Island inverters into a previously battery-
> less grid tied design utilizing 20 kW of PV on Enphase micro inverters
> and 2 SMA Windy Boy 6000 inverters (10 kW XZERES 442 turbine). Our
> custo

[RE-wrenches] Sharp Warranty in Marine Environment

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,

I recently heard a rumor that Sharp modules may not be warranted in a
marine environment. This could be completely false but I thought I would
reach out and see if anyone on the list has any experience in this area.

Best,

August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips

[August Goers]

We cut the extensions too. What other options are there when you have
multiple sub arrays all over the place? Enphase told us not to cut the
inverter leads which makes sense but I don't see any problem in cutting the
extensions.



Best,



August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com





*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Chad Waits
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:33 AM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips



We cut the extensions all the time to jump from deck to deck. You used to
have to have the proper pin out schematic to pair the proper wires but now
they’re labeled L1,L2,L3, and then a green yellow wire for neutral. Just cap
the L3 if you’re not using it for 3 phase.



Best,



*Chad Waits*

*Net Zero **Solar***

*520.270.4873*

*chadwa...@netzerosolar.net*



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Eric Thomas
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:06 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips



I know its a funny title butwhy doesn't EnPhase make whips with male
connectors? We are having trouble laying out a system with multiple sub
arrays. We need to cable to sub arrays that are on different roof planes in
order to make up our circuits. From 5 micros on roof one, into attic, out of
SolaDeck on roof two, grab 3 more micros, back into SolaDeck, into attic for
home run. The whip from the SolDeck to the last 3 micros needs to be male...
any suggestions? EnPhase does not want us to cut an extension that has
connectors on both ends...

Thanks,
Eric Thomas
Solar Epiphany
Seattle
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches -

We were called out today to check out an under performing system installed
by another contractor. This is an odd case.

The system has 24 Suntech 180s in three strings of 8 and a SMA Sunnyboy
4000us. Open circuit voltage for each string was about 330 Volts and we
verified that everything appeared to be wired in correctly. There is no DC
side grounding at all. Just a positive and negative coming down off the roof
for each string.

With all modules in direct light the inverter is only pumping out about 250
Watts steady state. We noticed that when we turn it off and on again that
the power went up to about 1500 Watts as it started tracking the max power
point. Then it slowly veers off course and settles out at about 250 Watts
and is running very close to the open circuit voltage of about 330 volts. I
would expect the MPP voltage to be closer to ~280 Volts. The inverter MPP
tracking range goes down to 250 Volts so I don't think that's the problem.

Anyone ever seen anything like this before? What might be causing the
inverter to get confused? The only thing I can think of is that something
fishy is going on with the lack of a DC side ground and that certainly needs
to be fixed anyway.

All thoughts welcome.

Best,

August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior

[August Goers]

Hi All -



Thanks for the ideas. It definitely sounds like should trying wiring in at
least another module in series to see how it acts.



Best, August







*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Warren Lauzon
*Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 5:55 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior



That 284 volt number is if the panel is at 25 degrees C. If the panels are
in full sun and with little wind, they can be higher temperature than that
even in cold weather.



An easy way to get a rough check on that is to disconnect the panels and
temporarily haywire an extra panel in series from another string. I suspect
the array might have to be rewired for 2 x 12.





*From:* August Goers 

*Sent:* Thursday, February 03, 2011 5:01 PM

*To:* RE-wrenches 

*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior



Hi Wrenches -



We were called out today to check out an under performing system installed
by another contractor. This is an odd case.



The system has 24 Suntech 180s in three strings of 8 and a SMA Sunnyboy
4000us. Open circuit voltage for each string was about 330 Volts and we
verified that everything appeared to be wired in correctly. There is no DC
side grounding at all. Just a positive and negative coming down off the roof
for each string.



With all modules in direct light the inverter is only pumping out about 250
Watts steady state. We noticed that when we turn it off and on again that
the power went up to about 1500 Watts as it started tracking the max power
point. Then it slowly veers off course and settles out at about 250 Watts
and is running very close to the open circuit voltage of about 330 volts. I
would expect the MPP voltage to be closer to ~280 Volts. The inverter MPP
tracking range goes down to 250 Volts so I don't think that's the problem.



Anyone ever seen anything like this before? What might be causing the
inverter to get confused? The only thing I can think of is that something
fishy is going on with the lack of a DC side ground and that certainly needs
to be fixed anyway.



All thoughts welcome.



Best,



August




--

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979

Online Solar Store <http://store.solar-electric.com/>
Free Solar Discussion Forum <http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/>

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing

[August Goers]

>
>
> My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a
> considerable "edge" over my competition because I have invested the time
> energy and went through the stress of taking the exam.  It is the same way
> with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and
> stress to get the qualification.  I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the
> time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and
> effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that
> away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a
> break!  You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see
> fit and so do I!  Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of
> course not.  If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the
> business.  Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we
> all are continually learning more and growing as an industry.  Otherwise
> there would not be much use in this blog at all.  All an exam really means
> is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the
> exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism.  It is about time our
> industry grows up!  Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the
> opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be.  I
> applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the
> considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off.  If you can
> do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being
> unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this
> industry!
>
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill Hoffer PE
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC
> 2504 Columbia Ave NW
> East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941
> suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762
> Cell(509)679-6165
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
>  --
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>  Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979
> 
> Online Solar Store <http://store.solar-electric.com/>
> Free Solar Discussion Forum <http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/>
> 
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>


-- 
August Goers


Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC Plus

[August Goers]

We subscribed to NECplus about a month ago. At the time they were giving a
free hard copy of the code book along with the subscription which is a great
deal. I would definitely recommend signing up if they are still offering
that deal. It's always nice being able to flip through a real book but the
online search capability is quite good. Searching for "disconnect" or
"ground electrode," for example brings up fast results which are easy to
hone in on.  I'm getting used to it now and I really like it. The benefit is
that you can login at any time wherever you have internet and check out the
code. Then you can print out relevant sections if needed.



Best, August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:09 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NEC Plus



Has anyone subscribed to the NEC Plus on line service?  The NFPA won't be
selling the NEC on the CD ROM this cycle.  They do have a pdf version, but
that doesn't seem as useful.  How does the NEC Plus work for a searchable
and printable NEC Handbook?

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC Plus

[August Goers]

Drake -



Yea, you can always cancel the subscription if it isn't to your liking. A
number of us use it around the office here and some are dead set on the hard
copy while others like the searchable online version... Good luck. -August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:41 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC Plus



Thanks August,

Based on your recommendation, I'm going to subscribe.  They do offer the NEC
book along with the deal.  This leaves me with an extra 2011, as I already
bought the spiral bound edition with tabs.

The CD ROM versions I've been getting for well over a decade were searchable
and printable.  The search feature of each new edition was of lower quality
than the previous.  With the NEC Plus, we will need to pay up each year
instead of every three.   Hopefully it has features that will make it worth
it.

Thanks,

Drake

At 02:27 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote:

We subscribed to NECplus about a month ago. At the time they were giving a
free hard copy of the code book along with the subscription which is a great
deal. I would definitely recommend signing up if they are still offering
that deal. It's always nice being able to flip through a real book but the
online search capability is quite good. Searching for "disconnect" or
"ground electrode," for example brings up fast results which are easy to
hone in on.  I'm getting used to it now and I really like it. The benefit is
that you can login at any time wherever you have internet and check out the
code. Then you can print out relevant sections if needed.

Best, August

*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:09 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NEC Plus

Has anyone subscribed to the NEC Plus on line service?  The NFPA won't be
selling the NEC on the CD ROM this cycle.  They do have a pdf version, but
that doesn't seem as useful.  How does the NEC Plus work for a searchable
and printable NEC Handbook?

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] (no subject)

[August Goers]

Hi Off Grid Wrenches,



Does anyone have any feedback on what brands and or models of small 12v
charge controllers they like? I'm looking at setting up a small emergency
power shed with a couple of PV modules and deep cycle batteries and perhaps
a Morningstar or Xantrex small charge controller. We just need something to
power a light or two and some cell phone chargers, etc.



Also, has any tried the Morningstar SureSine 300W inverter?



Thanks,



August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Small Charge controllers, WAS (no subject)

[August Goers]

Thanks, all, for the good info... Also, thanks Jason for adding a subject!
-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 12:21 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Small Charge controllers, WAS (no subject)



I like the Xantrex C12 for the night lighting control and LVD. It doesn’t
cost much more than the (admittedly great) Morningstar controllers, and has
many features and adjustments. It is a little larger in size, however.



Jason Szumlanski

Fafco Solar



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *August Goers
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 3:00 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] (no subject)



Hi Off Grid Wrenches,



Does anyone have any feedback on what brands and or models of small 12v
charge controllers they like? I'm looking at setting up a small emergency
power shed with a couple of PV modules and deep cycle batteries and perhaps
a Morningstar or Xantrex small charge controller. We just need something to
power a light or two and some cell phone chargers, etc.



Also, has any tried the Morningstar SureSine 300W inverter?



Thanks,



August
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Seam clamps with or w/o rails

[August Goers]

Drake -



We've done lots of systems both ways - using rails such as Unirac solarmount
or ProSolar is definately more forgiving compared to mounting directly on
the seams. The adjustability of the Unirac L-foot is particularly nice. If
you mount directly to the seams you need to mount in landscape orientation
and alignment can be tricky.



You still need to ground your array, however. Were you planning on using
weebs?



-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Friday, February 18, 2011 6:57 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Seam clamps with or w/o rails



Hello Wrenches,

We have a system to install on a roof with standing seams, and are planning
to use S-5 clamps.  The current plan is to use Solarmount rails. This seemed
to be a good solution for grounding, rather than putting lugs on every
module, and also would allow better air circulation under the array.

Would you agree with this concept, or would you recommend connecting the
modules straight to the seam clamps?  Are there any down sides to using the
rails with the S-5s?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Seam clamps with or w/o rails

[August Goers]

And I guess I should mention that the relatively new Unirac SolarMount-I
might be a good fit too. We just got our first set but haven't installed it
yet - my first impression is that it looks quick and simple but won't have
the same flexibility in adjustment compared to the Solarmount L-foot.
-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Friday, February 18, 2011 6:57 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Seam clamps with or w/o rails



Hello Wrenches,

We have a system to install on a roof with standing seams, and are planning
to use S-5 clamps.  The current plan is to use Solarmount rails. This seemed
to be a good solution for grounding, rather than putting lugs on every
module, and also would allow better air circulation under the array.

Would you agree with this concept, or would you recommend connecting the
modules straight to the seam clamps?  Are there any down sides to using the
rails with the S-5s?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter

[August Goers]

Hi Bill -

I see that you recommend that the GEC  between the micro inverters be run
in 6AWG before it enters the conduit and transitions to 8AWG. I assume
this is to meet the intent of 250.64(B) - Securing and Protection Against
Physical Damage?

Switching over to equipment grounding, it is very common in the industry
to run bare 10AWG between the modules and racks. Does this still seem
acceptable to you?

Best,

August


August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Brooks
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:48 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter

All,

While there is ambiguity in the 2008 NEC in 690.47(C) on the requirements
for system grounding of PV systems, the 2011 NEC in 690.47(C) clarifies
the intent.

While an application note from Enphase may state that WEEBs can be used as
part of the grounding electrode system, I disagree with this concept and
do not believe it meets the requirements or intent of the NEC as clarified
in the 2011 NEC. The problem with a grounded PV inverter is that it
requires a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) from the grounding point
(on the
inverter) to the grounding electrode. The 2008 and 2011 NEC allows for
that connection to be terminated at the grounding bar in the service panel
supplying the micro-inverters.

There is no problem with using the WEEB to bond the rails to the modules
and then to the Enphase Micro-inverter. From the micro-inverter, a bare
6AWG could be run to pick up each micro-inveter in each row of
micro-inverters with splices made to a single bare 6AWG made with
irreversible splices. At the rooftop junction box, the GEC could be
irreversibly spliced to an 8AWG green insulated conductor to run unbroken
to the grounding busbar in the service equipment.

While this may not be in agreement with the Enphase application note, I
believe it meets the intent and letter of the NEC as clarified in the 2011
NEC 690.47(C). While using the WEEBs in the GEC circuit may not cause a
life or death issue, it is absolutely open to being questioned by the
electrical inspector. If the electrical inspector decides it is wrong--it
is wrong. If you or the field inspector appeals to me or an expert like
John Wiles, we will state what I have stated above. Then you would have to
remove all the modules, throw away the WEEBs, put in new WEEBs with the
new bare copper 6AWG and reinstall the modules--it just ain't worth it.

690.47(D) was removed from the 2011 NEC because it was primarily for
lightning protection (not a safety issue according to the NEC) and was
ambiguously worded with respect to residential rooftop PV systems. If the
local jurisdiction requires the additional electrode, install a j-box at
the point near ground-level where the conduit transitions from vertical to
horizontal and install an irreversibly spliced bare 6AWG to run from the
j-box to a ground rod below the j-box--mildly painful, but very doable.

Bill.

Bill Brooks, PE
Principal
Brooks Engineering
873 Kells Circle
Vacaville, CA 95688
707-332-0761 (office and mobile)
707-451-7739 (fax)
b...@brooksolar.com (email)
www.brooksolar.com (web)



-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason
Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter

I don't see it in your comments. At least that wasn't clear. Anyway, in
that case there is absolutely no reason to use the inverter ground clip.
The whole purpose of the inverter-> rail WEEB is to eliminate the ground
wire.

Take a look at the Enphase App Note here:
http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/EnphaseAppNote_WEEB_Installation.
pdf

It starts out, "As an alternative to installing a continuous grounding
electrode conductor connected to each microinverter chassis, a grounding
washer may be used to ground the microinverter to grounded racking." It
couldn't be more clear for an inspector, but I understand that sometimes
it's hard to convince them. Hope this helps!

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk
Herander, VSE
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:46 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter

"As an aside, why didn't you use approved WEEB's to bond the inverters to
the rails? This eliminates the ground wire to each inverter. Simpler
IMHO."

I did. It is in my comments.

Kirk Herander
Vermont Solar Engineering
802.863.1202
NABCEP(tm) Certified

[RE-wrenches] Generators?

[August Goers]

Hi Off Grid Wrenches -

I need to select a propane generator to provide a steady state load of
approximately 8 kW for a offgrid Sunny Island system. The project is for
an art studio and the loads are primarily all lights.

I don't have much experience with generators so I thought I'd reach out
and see what products and manufacturers are popular out there.

Thanks,

August


August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
m: 415.559.1525
o: 415.641.4000
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire Access lane for ground mount

[August Goers]

This isn't just a matter of leaving a gap wide enough for a big fire truck
to drive on the grass or is the terrain not suitable to drive on? -August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Bill Brooks
*Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:39 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire Access lane for ground mount



Jim,



Having taught classes in New Jersey on the subject, I can tell you that the
fire service is looking into these types of requirements for ground-mounted
systems. The 2012 IFC only includes requirements for buffer areas around the
perimeter. Whether a fire truck needs to get around a facility is somewhat
based on local hazards and the size of the array. 800kW is a bit on the
small side for such requirements, but there are no hard and fast numbers.
However, if a PV system is the source of a large grass fire, getting access
to keep the fire from leaving the array area could be a critical need.



Bill.



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim MacDonald
*Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:33 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Fire Access lane for ground mount



A local FD in NJ is asking we build a road- a fire access lane (big enough
for fire truck) that will connect the main road to the north edge of a
proposed 800 kW ground mount.

The north edge of the ground mount is a good 500’ of grass from the road, so
this would be no cheap and easy task.



Has anyone come across a Fire Dept asking for such access?

Couldn’t find anything in old threads nor solar pro.



Thanks for any input



*Jim MacDonald***

Design + Engineering Dept.

Solar Energy Systems, LLC

www.solarEsystems.com 
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] FW: Fire Access lane for ground mount

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches -

See feedback below from fire Captain Matt Paiss of San Jose. Matt, thanks
for your input. Best, August

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Paiss [mailto:mpa...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 11:07 PM
To: aug...@luminalt.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire Access lane for ground mount

August,

Please feel free to post this:

As a firefighter, and one who has taught many firefighters PV Safety (some
co-taught with Bill Brooks), I believe I can offer some help here.  As
Bill stated, this as is often the case on many interpretation calls, will
depend on the AHJ.  However, I can tell you that when it comes to driving
on grass with a 60,000 lbs fire engine, getting stuck is not an option.
Therefore, departments that do not have 4wd apparatus may insist on "Fire
Access" roads.  I have worked with just this situation with another
integrator and a fire marshal.  The initial request was a 20' wide road
(Fire Access road requirement) around the entire plant (2 MW).  This was
ultimately revised to just one side, with a 12' wide "maintenance" road
the rest.

Of more concern is the vegetation management plan for any ground mount
site.  Please don't think just 2-3 years out, rather 10-15 years...as that
may be when a lack of regular and proper O&M will result in a visit from
the local fire department.

Regards,

Matt Paiss, Captain
San Jose Fire Department
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)

[August Goers]

You definitely have a point from a basic engineering point of view that
bolts through the module bottom holes is technically the most robust option.
However, the main racking companies have been selling top down clamps for a
very long time and the two big ones, Unirac and Pro Solar, haven't changed
their design for a long long time as far as I can tell. I tend to like Pro
Solar's clamps, especially the end clamps, a bit better than Unirac's but I
have to believe that if there was a problem that these companies would be
the first to change their design. Modules flying off the rack or roof is a
very bad thing. Some of you may recall the modified hex bolts that Unirac
was shipping for a little while a couple of years ago. They definitely
weren't good but Unirac got right on it and we had to switch out each and
every one that we had installed... That said, if you're talking about pole
mounts and other types of racking where you can get underneath easily then
why not just use the bottom holes.



-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:40 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)



I tend to agree about the clamps, and in a case like this where there is
little risk of an expensive mistake with a voided warranty, I would actually
drill holes in the frame and use bottom clamps in addition to top clamping.



Jason Szumlanski

Fafco Solar





*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:48 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)



Friends:

When installing modules on extruded rail systems, I worry that any vibration
or motion could loosen top-down clamps.  Unlike bottom-up systems that
install with tried-and-true bolts and lock washers through captive holes,
clamp systems seem less "positive" in holding capability.  If one rail in
the proposed design moves in relation to the other, the clamps could loosen
and the modules could eventually slide right off the rail.  It appears that
wind turbulence could rock the modules in the proposed design, there is a
lot of leverage for that.  This might loosen clamps.

I hesitate to design my own racking.  Small business management is all about
controlling risk.  I do not want to be responsible for damaged modules if my
design fails.

At least one local AHJ forbids home-brew racks for a permitted system.  I'm
not sure I support that restrictive approach.  I might suggest allowing them
for owner-builder systems where the home owner assumes the liability.  For
myself, the remaining tasks associated with installing a system properly
have enough pitfalls without me playing structural engineer.

And lastly, it is my understanding that Solar World had temporarily
abandoned mounting holes in the back rails of their new "Plus" modules (my
quotes) and even abandoned the flanges altogether.  According to what I
heard, industry pressure forced them to add them back in, but as an option.
This is third-hand knowledge, but I do know that removing the option to
mount panels with through bolts would be a big mistake.

William Miller




Here is my “cobulated” idea, admittedly done this way to take advantage of
parts in stock:

http://www.fafcosolar.com/download/402/Cobulate.pdf
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Panduit C-TAP (now crimping tools and taps)

[August Goers]

Hi Carl -



I've attached the Wrenches list here because it seems like info others might
be interested in



Yes, the CT-1700 is a good choice for smaller crimps common on most
residential work. Also, we've since switched over to sourcing Greenlee tools
because they are cheaper and easier to source. You might check out the
Greenlee K111:



http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-K111-Crimping-Tool-8-1/dp/B000LDNV1Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1301418941&sr=8-1



Also, for bigger more heavy duty crimps the K425 works great:



http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-K425O-Crimping-Tool-Grooves/dp/B00125IZJU



You need to purchase dies for the K425 whereas the K111 has a rotating die.
Also, the K425 works with aluminum to copper connections which come up from
time to time when you're trying to do an irreversible splice between the
solar GEC and the existing building GEC run in aluminum.



This Burndy connector catalog takes a while to load:



http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent//fci/documentation/2010_mc_section_c-compression_connectors.pdf<http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/fci/documentation/2010_mc_section_c-compression_connectors.pdf>



Page C-100 shows the thin wall taps compatible with the K111. Page C101
shows the thick wall taps compatible with the K425. Page C124 has copper to
aluminum taps - these will impress your inspector!



There are also other manufacturers but I've found that these parts are easy
to get a hold of and can at least be used for reference numbers if your
supplier carries another line. Any other wrenches out there like other
similar products?



Happy crimping!



-August



PS: once you start using these you won't believe you lived without them





August Goers





Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com









*From:* Carl Adams [mailto:cad...@sunrocksolar.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:04 AM
*To:* aug...@luminalt.com
*Subject:* RE: Panduit C-TAP



As to the tool it looks like the CT-1700 would be a good choice.  Is this
the one you are using?



With Regards

Carl Adams

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer

NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer

SunRock Solar

Cincinnati, Ohio

513.766.6025

www.sunrocksolar.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems

[August Goers]

Marco - I'd like to see the pdf as well if you don't mind. Thanks, August



aug...@luminalt.com



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Marco Mangelsdorf
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:31 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems



In the March issue of Photon magazine it’s being reported that Sanyo’s HiT
modules may be suffering from MWs worth of failures.



If you’re unable to track down the article on-line, let me know and I can
send you a PDF version.



marco
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems (now email etiquette question)

[August Goers]

Michael -

This has come up before. I'm probably missing something simple but the
problem for me is that Wrenches emails do not contain the senders original
address in a way that I've been able to find it. Any suggestions about
where I can find the senders email?

Best, August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Welch
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems

Just a reminder to all, please send requests and anything else intended
for an individual to that individual, and NOT the whole list.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me off list.

Thanks in advance.


___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny boy 1800

[August Goers]

Jesse -

Did you happen to measure the array voltage when the problem was occurring?
I ran into a sort of similar issue to this where the string voltage was just
a little too low and once the panels warmed up they would drop out of MPP
range. Just a thought. Any idea what the string configuration is?

Also, this might be a link to your manual, good 'ole Google:
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/sb1800_owner.pdf

And the spec sheet:
http://152.1.103.103/GRIDc/components/SunnyBoy1800spec.pdf

 -August

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Jesse Dahl  wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> I've been working on a sunny boy 1800 with some problems. There is no
> manual and SMA website does not have it available.  I need to watch the
> lights on the inverter to find the problem, but I'm not there now and I
> can't get this off my mind, so I will ask the esteemed members of this list.
>
> When it's cloudy, the inverter comes on and loads the array. I can watch
> the sunny keeper watts reading rise until it get around 1000w and full sun
> hits the array.  Once full sun hits the array, the inverter drops out.  It
> did it three times to me today, and the inverter will not come on during
> full sun. Grid volts and hz are okay durning this.
>
> I know it's impossible to troubleshoot like this, but anyone deal with
> problems like this?
>
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
>
> Jesse Dahl
>
> Sent from my iPad!!!
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
August Goers


Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Paint for Rubber Flashings

[August Goers]

Roofers often use this type of aluminum paint here in the Bay Area -



http://www.gardner-gibson.com/linedetails.aspx?id=57



I think a good quality outdoor latex paint works fine too.



Best,



August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake
*Sent:* Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:33 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Paint for Rubber Flashings



Hello Wrenches,

We had a discussion on the list previously concerning degradation of rubber
boots on flashings due to UV exposure.  Apparently painted boots will hold
up much better than non painted.  Can anyone recommend an appropriate paint
to use?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
ATHENS ELECTRIC
OH License 44810
CO license 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches -



Most of you already know this, but California solar data, including
installed costs, is public information found here:



http://www.californiasolarstatistics.org/current_data_files/



Searching for data on other ~ 1MW systems will help you hone in on at least
a ballpark figure but there are many variables - labor wage rates,
electrical service provisions, other job difficulties, ownership/loan
structure, etc . And looking at reputable companies helps too.



You don't want to get your price wrong when 1 MW is at stake! I've seen
installers go out of business on much smaller systems...



Good luck! -August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *wire...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 10, 2011 12:59 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Ballpark Cost/Watt



Hello Wrenches,

My employer has the inside track on a 1MW install on .5/12 standing seam
metal roofs (two separate roofs).  This is by far larger than anything we've
designed so I am looking for a ballpark cost/watt. I'm at around $4/watt. I
realize there are lots of variables and I am looking for help on this but
just wondering if I am in the ballpark?

Thank you.

Larry Liesner
Design and Installations
Elektron Solar, LLC
16 Ketchum St.
Westport, CT 06880
203-557-3127 (office)
203-644-2404 (cell)
203-549-0977 (fax)
wire...@gmail.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer (# 032611-184)
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] smart meters/bidirectional

[August Goers]

Hi All -

We run into smart meters before we install PV here in CA all the time. The
smart meter hardware is typically bidirectional in that the arrow on the
display will indicate which direction power is flowing. I say "typically"
because there seems to be several meter brands that the utility is using
and I haven't necessarily verified all of them.

However, in PG&E territory some stage of the software processing doesn't
seem to register negative kWh readings properly. In other words, if the PV
system produces more power than used in the billing period then the bills
get wonky. We've seen bills skyrocket because the negative reading is read
as a complete reset of the meter which would indicate that nearly 100,000
kWh were used. That's one reason why it is best to keep the system off
until official interconnection occurs.

Lastly, I've verified with PG&E that the bidirectional solar meters
currently used for net metering are the same as the standard smart meters
but just have different programming. Smart meter programming is not
currently active for net metered solar clients in the PG&E territory.
That's a mouthful!

Best,

August

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:14 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] smart meters/bidirectional

Jay,

I recently ran a smartmeter prior to changing out to a NEMS meter here in
California (PG&E). 

I saw the energy flow indicator reverese direction and after a period of
time, the kWH reading also decreased so I was pretty confident that the
smartmeter was behaving the same as to old dics meters.

Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] smart meters/bidirectional

HI All,

Say are the new California smart meters bi-directional?

A recent install "test" showed the meter resister a negative watt
indication, but I couldn't run it long enough to see if the KWH went
backwards.

thanks,

jay

peltz power

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stiebel Eltron SHW Collector condensation issue

[August Goers]

Hi David -



Doesn't sound fun. We experienced a similar problem with a 10-collector
system with Schuco Slim-Vs about 3 years ago. The collectors had lots of
condensation build up in them, especially during the rainy season. Schuco
stepped up and gave us new 2nd generation collectors under warranty. The new
collectors do not have the condensation problem. Apparently they redesigned
the ventilation method. Generally speaking I like the Schuco product
although now we're noticing a browning effect occurring near the in inlet
and outlet pipes on the absorber plate on Slim Vs installed a few years ago.
I have yet to deal with this issue.



It sounds like Stiebel is still working out their design. You'll probably
want to make sure that they have it fully figured out before replacing the
old collectors under warranty otherwise you might have the same problem!



Good luck with it.



Best, August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dave Palumbo
*Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 12:58 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Stiebel Eltron SHW Collector condensation issue



SHW Wrenches,



Our first experience with SHW flat plate collectors with a condensation
issue on the inside of the collectors’ glass cover. The system has two
Stiebel Eltron Sol 25 collectors (88” x 48” each) with a 82 gallon single
heat exchanger insulated tank in the basement of the home, with a SOM 6
solar loop controller. System installed fall of 2008.



Condensation problem was first noticed by homeowner late last December. The
collectors’ manufacturer, Stiebel Eltron, instructed us to watch and see if
the problem resolved on its own. It did not. Stiebel then instructed us to
drill small holes through the sides of the collectors near the top for
venting and more holes through the sides near the bottom for draining the
collector (see attached pdf for Stiebel’s venting advice). We did that in
early May of this year. The homeowner called us back with the same
condensation issue.



Stiebel then sent a bag of plastic insert venting plugs that required us to
drill out larger holes in the side of the collectors and pop these vent
plugs in. Plugs appear to be an attempt at making more venting area while
trying to keep the rain out. After we installed these plugs we still have
the same issue, homeowner still sees condensation and poor performance from
the SHW system.



The homeowner is now asking for new collectors under warranty.  Have others
experienced a similar SHW collector problem? And have collector
manufacturers stepped up with new collectors?



Thanks,



David Palumbo

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655**

*www.independentpowerllc.com *

NABCEP Certified PV Installer

Vermont Solar Partner

23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG vs IG Plus inverters

[August Goers]

Hi Howe,



Why are you still interested in the original IG? We've had a fairly high
failure rate with the original IG and I wouldn't recommend going back to
them unless you're getting some sort of amazing inventory clearance price...
We have over 100 IG+s in the field with only two failures to date. Both just
wouldn't turn on at all.



-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Philip Boutelle
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:44 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG vs IG Plus inverters



I replaced the IG at my house 5 times under warranty (the circuit board
failure that William described, no fires just some internal melting) before
finally getting them to give me an IG+, which has been working flawlessly
now for almost 2 years.

As a company we replaced all of the IGs we installed--a dozen or so--many
repeatedly. We never got an IG+ upgrade for our customers.

-Phil

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Jimmy Thompson 
wrote:

All



I have had good experiences with the IG Plus. It is easy to work with and
the different power stages make for a more efficient inverter. The IG
however is not very good in my opinion. The groundfault cards tend to go bad
due to poor ventilation. Dust and dirt tends to get trapped inside the
inverter. With that being said, Fronius always sent a replacement and was
very helpful anytime I called.



On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Howie Michaelson 
wrote:

William,
Thanks for the clarification on the disconnect - I vaguely remember this
issue with Fronius we used in the distant past.  As I remember, several
manufacturers' early integrated disconnects were this way.

All,
Anyone else have a particularly poor track record with Fronius?  Worse
with the IG vs. the Plus?


Howie
--
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004


On Tue, June 28, 2011 1:21 pm, William Miller wrote:
> Howie:
>
> The IG has an integrated disconnect section, but it the electronics are
> not
> removable from the disconnect.  Therefore it is not safe to replace an IG
> unless it is dark or you can tarp the modules.
>
> The Plus series has two chassis that mate.  You can turn of the DC and
> remove the electronics for repair, which we have had to do all too often.
>
> We had an IG burst into flames and scared the heck out of the widow who
> was
> home alone.  She called the fire department and then called us.  Sure we
> get replacement inverters for the asking, but we get tired of asking.
>
> Wm
>
>
>
> At 10:14 AM 6/28/2011, you wrote:
>>Thanks for the feedback Kistopher.  1 question:  I thought that the IG
>>also came with the integrated AC/DC disco as well as the IG Plus.  I know
>>the IG doesn't come with the string fusing.  Am I missing something here?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Howie
>>--
>>Howie Michaelson
>>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>>
>>Catamount Solar, LLC
>>Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
>>VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
>>http://www.CatamountSolar.com
>>802-272-0004
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, June 28, 2011 1:00 pm, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
>> > I have used both recently.  The IG Plus is nice for two reasons: the
>> > integrated DC disconnect and the onboard string fusing/combining
>> > capability.  Their tech support has been easy to work with and have
>> > reimbursed me for labor when needed with no questions asked.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Howie Michaelson
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> Anyone care to relate the differences (pros/cons) of the Fronius IG
>> vs.
>> >> IG
>> >> Plus inverters?  Haven't used either and haven't dealt with Fronius
>> in 5
>> >> or 6 years.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Howie
>> >> --
>> >> Howie Michaelson
>> >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>> >>
>> >> Catamount Solar, LLC
>> >> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
>> >> VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner
>> >> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
>> >> 802-272-0004
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>> >>
>> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> >>
>> >> Options & settings:
>> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> >>
>> >> List-Archive:
>> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> >>
>> >> List rules & etiquette:
>> >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> >>
>> >> Check out participant bios:
>> >> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks,
>> > Kris Schmid
>> >
>> > Legacy Solar, LLC
>> > 864 Clam Falls Trail
>> > Frederic, WI 54837
>> > 715-653-4295
>> > www.legacysolar.com
>> > sol...@legacysolar.com
>> > ___
>> > List sponsored by Home Pow

Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches -



I posted this original thread a ways back but we've now had the opportunity
to fix the problem...



What I had failed to mention in my original post (below) is that this is an
off grid Sunny Island based system. The Sunny Island wasn't properly setup
and thought that the battery bank was full so it was telling the Sunny Boy
to throttle back (I believe by adjusting the AC frequency). Anyway, we
reprogrammed the Sunny Island with the correct battery setup and the system
is now cranking. Once the battery bank is full and if the loads go down the
Sunny Boy will in turn crank down its output which is just what we want it
to do.



Thought I'd let you know - I guess that goes to show that I haven't done any
off grid work for a long time (since the late 90s)! -August



-- Forwarded message --
From: *Darryl Thayer* 
Date: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior
To: RE-wrenches 

I have seen that behavior almost.  if open cirucit is 330 then MPPT should
be about 264 which is to close to bottom of the window.  Last summer a sunny
boy in a similar situation of 8 modules in string was droping out on MPPT
tracking.  The inverter had additional module added and started to behave
correctly.  Sometimes the manufacture wants the sale and some inverters
might not be in spec, so becarful of string sizing calculators.

Another case the tracking algorithm was defective and the modules were
operated at to high a voltage above the Vmp voltage, I replaced the inverter
and problem fixed.


------

*From:* August Goers 
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Sent:* Thu, February 3, 2011 6:01:11 PM
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Odd Inverter Behavior


Hi Wrenches -



We were called out today to check out an under performing system installed
by another contractor. This is an odd case.



The system has 24 Suntech 180s in three strings of 8 and a SMA Sunnyboy
4000us. Open circuit voltage for each string was about 330 Volts and we
verified that everything appeared to be wired in correctly. There is no DC
side grounding at all. Just a positive and negative coming down off the roof
for each string.



With all modules in direct light the inverter is only pumping out about 250
Watts steady state. We noticed that when we turn it off and on again that
the power went up to about 1500 Watts as it started tracking the max power
point. Then it slowly veers off course and settles out at about 250 Watts
and is running very close to the open circuit voltage of about 330 volts. I
would expect the MPP voltage to be closer to ~280 Volts. The inverter MPP
tracking range goes down to 250 Volts so I don't think that's the problem.



Anyone ever seen anything like this before? What might be causing the
inverter to get confused? The only thing I can think of is that something
fishy is going on with the lack of a DC side ground and that certainly needs
to be fixed anyway.



All thoughts welcome.



Best,



August








___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org




-- 
August Goers


Luminalt Energy Corporation
1320 Potrero Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94110
O: 415.641.4000
M: 415.559.1525
aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] working spaces for disconnects and meter sockets

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches -



Does anyone know what the specific working clearance requirements are for
disconnects switches (there might be a difference between fused and
non-fused) and meter sockets?



I've historically gone by the typical conservative approach found in NEC
110.26, ie 3' in front and 30" wide for typical applications.



However, it is often tempting to try to stretch these rules for standard
utility required disconnects or meter sockets. For example we might have a
utility disconnect over a flower bed that technically doesn't allow for a
full 3' in front or maybe the switch needs to be mounted above a sloped
driveway.



Any opinions and interpretations would be appreciated.



Thanks,



August





August Goers



Luminalt Energy Corporation

1320 Potrero Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

m: 415.559.1525

o: 415.641.4000

aug...@luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] SHW collector absorber plate issue

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,



We have several installations from a few years ago where we're noticing
strange discoloration around the corners of the absorber plate:





I'll keep the manufacturer anonymous at this point but I'm wondering if any
of you have experience with this and if so what the problem might be.



Thanks in advance for your wealth of knowledge.



Best,



August
<>___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] under performing Enphase inverters

[August Goers]

We have over 1000 Enphase units installed of multiple types - mostly M210s
and M190s. We just had our first overt failure of an M190. It just went
dead after a couple of months of operation. I'll keep my eye out for
underperforming units but haven't noticed any yet.



-August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
*Sent:* Friday, November 04, 2011 6:26 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] under performing Enphase inverters



I’ve never installed a M210, but we have had dozens of M190 failures,
mostly within a short period of time after installation but a few older
failures have trickled in lately. On one job with 236 208V M190’s, we have
replaced about a dozen. To date we have not had a single M215 failure,
including one job with 164 inverters. Anecdotally, it seems that the M215
is much more reliable. Hopefully that will hold!



Out of all the swaps we’ve done, I’ve never observed one where the power
output was lower compared to adjacent modules. In almost every case there
was zero AC output or a GFDI fault.



And yes, Enphase has paid $150 per swap, although you have to remember to
go through the RMA registration process online. Overall they have been
excellent about honoring the product warranty with few questions asked.
That being said, I do have better things to do than swapping inverters!



Jason Szumlanski

Fafco Solar





*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Frye
*Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:23 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] under performing Enphase inverters



I have a fleet of 43 - 190's and 39 - 380's.



To date I have replace 3 - 190's and 2 - 380's.



All have been identified by close review of the display data and variation
in performance relative to adjacent units.



Each has been replaced under warranty with a service fee reimbursement of
$150.


Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com




--

*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Marco
Mangelsdorf
*Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:27 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] under performing Enphase inverters

For the first time, several weeks ago, after 40-50 Enphase installs, we’ve
come across at least two M210s that we putting out consistently lower
outputs than their immediate neighbors.



We replaced the two mods first, which made no difference.  Then, in
consultation with Enphase, replaced the M210s.  After replacing them, the
power output was as it should be.



Now I’ve got another suspect system with several underperforming mods out
of (36).



Has anyone else had this experience?



Thanks,

marco
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

[August Goers]

As other Wrenches have noted, there are UV paints available as well as UV
rated insulation itself:

http://www.armacell.us/products/armaflexwbfinish/

http://www.armacell.us/products/utsolaflex/

The problem with both of these solutions is that few folks keep up with the
required maintenance over the life of the system. I've inspected many
systems where the insulation is falling apart. Critters will chew the
insulation and use it for nest material, even with UV paint.

August

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Dana  wrote:

> As we build our latest off grid home we are living in a Yurt. The exterior
> roof is a vinyl product.
> A neighbor complained to the county about our white roof this summer & we
> offered to paint it to be neighborly.
> The manufacturer had us use a latex/acrylic paint on the roof. It has
> worked well. I assume that there are definitely paints that would work on
> the various pipe insulations at a much lower cost than aluminum coverings.
> All it took was a call to the manufacturer.
>
> I wonder now that snow has started if our neighbor will want the roof
> white again
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of cwarfel
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 4:52 AM
> To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org' <
> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> I thinkthis problem is really only "solved" by using the coverings
> suggested, especially it seems, aluminum jacketing.  I will be going off
> island in a week and I will have the chance to go to a store that sells
> these products. I am hoping to put this system into HomePower, so, this
> will be part of the article. Thanks for everyone's responses. I hopefully
> responded to everyone off line. Stay tuned.  Chris
>
>
> On 11/6/2017 4:57 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> > Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses.
> > While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and
> > had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis.
> > There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so
> > perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help
> > there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an
> > inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution
> > stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when
> > unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten
> > year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit
> > and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more
> > involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers
> > that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific
> > problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a
> > shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill
> >
> > -
> >
> > From: "cwarfel"
> > To:
> > Cc:
> > Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> > Water Heating Systems
> >
> > Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near
> > that long.  Chris
> >
> >
> > On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One
> of
> > my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
> > paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
> > take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
> > big time. As I remember they used white paint.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Bill Loesch
> > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> > 314 631 1094
> >
> >   -From: "Glenn Burt"
> > To: "RE-wrenches"
> > Cc:
> > Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for
> Solar
> > Water Heating Systems
> >
> >   How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
> > and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
> > blend into location.
> >
> >   List-Archive:
> >   List-Archive:
> > ___
> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> >
> > List Address:RE-

Re: [RE-wrenches] Breaker trip

[August Goers]

Hi Mac,

What size breaker is tripping? I assume you are running at 48 v?

August



On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:18 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hello wrenches,
>
> I've got a mysterious breaker tripping that I need some ideas on how to
> fix.
>
> Original system:
> Array 6 x 235W Kyocera modules
> 1 x Outback FM60 charge controller
> 1 x Magnum MS 4024 PAE inverter
>
> Upgraded system we stacked a second inverter to accommodate an air
> compressor:
> Array 6 x 235W Kyocera modules
> 1 x Outback FM60 charge controller
> *2 x Magnum MS 4024 PAE inverter*
>
> There have been no changes to the solar array, just to the inverter side of
> the system.  We have been getting intermittent breaker tripping (a couple
> of weeks between) on the battery breaker side of the charge controller.
> The basics have been checked and rechecked.  Torque is good on all sides of
> the breaker all the way to the battery bussing.
>
> The only thing that I can think of is that during a surge on the AC side
> its sucking enough current out of the charge controller caps to trip this
> breaker occasionally.
>
> Has anyone experienced this?  The only way I can see to fix it is to go
> with a larger breaker ampacity, but maybe there is something better.  Does
> anyone no how quickly the max current setting in the Outback can respond,
> would dropping this help?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements

[August Goers]

Kirpal,

Specialized structural engineering really shouldn't be required for a
standard flush mount tile project. If it is, I have a few PE structural
contacts who typically do this kind of work for closer to $200, contact me
off list if you're interested.

Secondly, I agree with William to be weary of tile roofs! The biggest issue
we've found besides fragile tile is worn underlayment. The underlayment,
typically felt paper, needs to be in good condition or the roof will leak
sooner or later. Assessing roof age really helps to get an idea of how the
underlayment might be. Anything over 10 years old should be inspected by a
roofer. The best bet is to have a roofer waterproof your stanchions.

August


*August Goers*

Luminalt Energy Corporation


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Fellow Wrenches
> Some time back we were doing concrete tile install all the time. We
> approched it somewhat different. We removed all the tiles on the area for
> the array, preped the area and installed installed comp with quick mount
> afterwords we reinstalled the tile around the modules. The profile was far
> better, overall look was better and we will never get a cracked tile under
> the array cause a leak. We did not need any engineering on this either as
> we reduced the loading by installing modules.
> Jerry
>
> On Dec 19, 2017 6:53 AM, "William Miller"  wrote:
>
> > Kirpal:
> >
> > It seems to me this is a matter of defining "Flush-mount."  I would call
> > any installation where-in the panels are within the perimeter of the
> roof,
> > parallel with the surface and not more than 10 or so inches from the
> > surface of the roofing material a flush-mount.  A proper tile roof
> > installation satisfies this and should be allowed without engineering.
> >
> > Here in smoky California we have lots of tile roofs.  We have tried or
> > reviewed all of the tile mount solutions.  We rejected Quickmount as
> > poorly designed and fabricated.  The posts are hollow and the threads
> fail
> > much too easily.  Hooks are out of the question for lack of uplift
> > resistance.  Snap-N-Rack posts and flashings are too weakly built and
> > don't look like they will seal well. Our preferred roofer rejected them.
> >
> > We settled on the robust DPW "Power Post" stanchions with two levels of
> > flashing.  On these we set Snap-n-Rack 100 series rail.  The Power Posts
> > are solid aluminum and allow two lags.  However DPW had such a huge lead
> > time for Power Posts that we tooled up to fabricate our own.  You could
> > check with DPW or Solar Rack Works.
> >
> > The biggest weatherproofing complexity is the sub-roof--the paper under
> > the tile.  It is the actual rain barrier while the tile is the UV barrier
> > and aesthetic treatment.  Over time, the sub-roof will become brittle.
> It
> > is fine as long as you don't touch it.  We try to never rely on caulk for
> > the rain barrier and caulk won't stick to old sub-roof anyway.  Instead
> we
> > lap good quality paper under the next layer above and over the flashing
> > below.  This means we would be lifting the existing paper and it tears.
> > Therefore we have a licensed roofer remove tile from eave-to-ridge and
> > rake-to-rake and install new sub-roof.  We use Oatey 11830 flashings over
> > Power Posts, overlapping each course of paper.  This requires some short
> > courses, but felt is cheap.  Over the tile we use a wide base galvanized
> > flashing interleaved with flat tile or wide based aluminum flashing with
> > curved tile.  The roofer replaces the tile after we set stanchions.
> >
> > The licensed roofer adds thousands of dollars to any tile job but without
> > this process a roof leak is likely.  I figure a roof leak could cost tens
> > of thousands of dollars so the arithmetic is pretty easy.
> >
> > By the way, these are trade secrets so don't tell anyone.
> >
> > William Miller
> >
> >
> > Lic 773985
> > millersolar.com
> > 805-438-5600
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> > Behalf Of Kirpal
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:26 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches
> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon -
> > Engineering requirements
> >
> > Hi Folks!  We don't get many jobs installing solar on concrete tile
> > roofsthere aren't many around here.  In Oregon we are allowed to do
> an
> > engineer-less installation on metal and comp roofs when the array is
> flush
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge change over with SunPower Modules??

[August Goers]

Tom - I was just asking a SunPower rep about this. My understanding is that
a PID (Potential Induced Degredation) discharge device is required to use
SunPower positively grounded modules with a transformerless inverter. These
are expensive and not listed for the US market. Long story short, I don't
think you can do it. You need to find a transformer based inverter for your
project if you're going to stick with those modules. There is a company or
two selling refurbished Sunny Boys on the market.

August

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 6:15 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> I have a Postive grounded SunPower System with two private labeled SMA 6000
> watt Inverters installed in 2009 and want to use SolarEdge 7600 and their
> optimizers at least for half the array ?  Modules are SunPower 210 watt
> modules -  how do I work this out ? GatorTom PS : 48 modules ground mounted
> in two arrays of 24 modules . Thanks
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote monitoring via landline

[August Goers]

William,

Can the phone company install a DSL modem to get your equipment regular
internet?

August

*August Goers*

Luminalt


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:49 PM, William Miller 
wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am designing a remote off-grid system to run some traffic lights.  Due to
> the critical nature of this traffic control function, remote monitoring is
> desirable.  There is apparently a landline on site.  I don’t imagine the
> S/N is very high.
>
>
>
> Do any of you now a way to monitor and control a remote system using a
> dial-up landline?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wire management with S5! Railless System

[August Goers]

Ray - I agree with the others that S5 clamps with rails is the way to go on
standing seam roofs. We buy our S5 clamps through LMCurbs and I've found
their pricing and service to be good: http://www.lmcurbs.com/

We go though a good deal of effort to determine the exact standing seam
make/model and then procure the S5 clamps that are specifically designed
for the roof. Even then, sometimes the seams need to be compressed a bit to
slip the clamp over. You can squeeze the seams with a large pair of channel
locks with a piece or cardboard to protect the channel lock teeth from
marring the metal standing seam coating.

If you still need to run PV wires along modules frames without rails,
HellermannTyton might make a product that will work for you:
http://www.hellermanntyton.us/industry.aspx?id=3132
You might be able to get a solar sampler kit from them to find a good fit.

Best,

August
Luminalt


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Ray  wrote:

> Hi All;
>
> I was wondering what folks were doing these days for wire management on
> Standing seam roofs with the S5! clamps and no rails. I'm at a loss (once
> again) for how to secure the home runs without a rail.  I have some of
> those module edge clips, but those only hold one wire, and I've had them
> slip off (wire dangling visible from ground.)
> Also most suppliers seem to only carry the universal S5! clamps, but I
> have found those to really bend up the metal on certain types of standing
> seam roofs.  I wanted to order the recommended model for the particular
> roof.  AEE quit carrying S5 altogether.
> Give me your Standing seam wisdom.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or
> g/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] 1,000V combiners

[August Goers]

Chris -

Two ideas: One, call Fronius to see what they recommend. We haven't used
this particular inverter, but we've used lots of the smaller Symos and
Pirmos and with some of them you can fit fuse holders right in the wire box
onto a din rail. Otherwise, I've had good results working with SolarBOS.

August
Luminalt



On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

> We are looking at Fronius Symo  24.0-3 480 for a 120KW rooftop project but
> I am having problems identifying a 1,000V fused disco combiner for the six
> strings. I'm looking for suggestions for suitable products.
>
> --
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Marco,

Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.

We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
up with this type of design.

Best,

August

*August Goers*

Luminalt Energy Corporation

o: 415.641.4000

www.luminalt.com



On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

>
>
> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>
>
> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>
>
> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>
>
> *marco *
>
> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>
>
>
> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>
>
>
> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
> electric loads.*
>
>
>
> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>
> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
> loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
> overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
> especially at night.*
>
> *· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too much
> techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting.  Normal utility
> frequency is 60 hertz (Hz).  PV inverters require the utility frequency to
> be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate.  During a grid outage, Powerwall
> effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz),
> allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house
> loads (during daylight hours) and charge Powerwall as needed.  During the
> day with the loads being met by your PV system and Powerwall being at or
> near full state of charge (97-100 percent), Powerwall will shift the
> frequency from 60 to 66 Hz i

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Hi Dave -

I keep hearing that Tesla is having a hard time keeping up with demand, so
they may not be very motivated to add more dealers at this point. Just
speculation.

Yes, the max continuous and peak powers add as you add up as you add more
powerwalls. Energy capacity adds too. Yes, Powerwall has liquid cooling - I
don't know what type of fluid it is. According to the Powerwall newsletter
I received, the Powerwall will heat itself with the liquid cooling/heating
system to deal with sub-freezing conditions. This will use some energy.

August

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> The AC powerwall has cooling, it is a liquid? Anyone know if the 5kw
> continuous and 7kw peak limits change with multiple units?
>
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> > I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
> > being a resolution:
> > Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
> > about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
> > We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
> > expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
> > have something to do with it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > *--*
> >
> >
> > *Dave Tedeyan*
> > *Senior Engineer*
> >
> > *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> > 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> > Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> > www.taitem.com
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Marco,
> >>
> >> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
> >> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
> >> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but
> >> are
> >> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long
> >> time.
> >> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
> >> For the most part, our experience has been good although the
> >> commissioning
> >> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
> >> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had
> >> the
> >> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both
> >> Solaredge
> >> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
> >>
> >> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
> >> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
> >> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
> >> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
> >> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to
> >> catch
> >> up with this type of design.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> August
> >>
> >> *August Goers*
> >>
> >> Luminalt Energy Corporation
> >>
> >> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
> >>
> >> www.luminalt.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf
> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
> >>> company
> >>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the
> >>> vast
> >>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
> >>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line
> >>> and
> >>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *marco *
> >>>
> >>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> >>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make
> >>> sure
> >>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> >>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and
> >>> testing
> >>> it during normal grid-on and gr

Re: [RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Yes, PG&E. The Self Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) created a flood of
applications and PG&E is having a hard time keeping up. Hopefully it will
get easier.

We are enabling self-consumption and backup modes. The Powerwall charges
daily from the solar and then discharges to a owner-set minimum reserve
capacity.

August

*August*

Luminalt Energy Corporation

o: 415.641.4000

www.luminalt.com



On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Hey August.
>
> By utility I assume that you are talking about PG&E.
>
> What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode or
> daily cycling mode?
>
> In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating capacity
> of the solar facility.
>
> marco
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Marco,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>
>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>> up with this type of design.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>
>>>
>>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>>
>>>
>>> *marco *
>>>
>>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
>>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
>>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
>>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
>>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
>>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
>>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
>>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
>>> electric loads.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>>
>>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
>>> dryer and electri

Re: [RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

The solar self consumption mode is a requirement in order to qualify for
the SGIP incentive for PV-paired systems. For residential systems, the
storage system must discharge a minimum of 52 full cycles per year which
equates to once per week on average.

In addition, solar self consumption mode can save a little money by a)
reducing the non-bypassable charges associated with NEM2
<https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/green-energy-incentives/solar-and-renewable-metering-and-billing/net-energy-metering-program-tracking/net-energy-metering-and-tracking-faq.page>
and b) potentially reduce some Time Of Use (TOU) peak rate energy
consumption. It's a particularly good choice for folks who have electric
vehicles on the EV
<https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf> rate
where the peak rates go to 9:00 pm and part peak goes to 11:00 pm.
Generally speaking, we're seeing TOU peak periods shift later and later in
California.

August

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Is there a financial benefit to the customer-generator to choose the
> self-powered mode, August?
>
> marco
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Yes, PG&E. The Self Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) created a flood
>> of applications and PG&E is having a hard time keeping up. Hopefully it
>> will get easier.
>>
>> We are enabling self-consumption and backup modes. The Powerwall charges
>> daily from the solar and then discharges to a owner-set minimum reserve
>> capacity.
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey August.
>>>
>>> By utility I assume that you are talking about PG&E.
>>>
>>> What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode
>>> or daily cycling mode?
>>>
>>> In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating
>>> capacity of the solar facility.
>>>
>>> marco
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marco,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>>>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>>>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>>>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>>>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>>>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>>>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>>>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>>>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
>>>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>>>
>>>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>>>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>>>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>>>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>>>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>>>> up with this type of design.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> August
>>>>
>>>> *August Goers*
>>>>
>>>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>>>
>>>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>>>
>>>> www.luminalt.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf <
>>>> ma...@pvthawaii.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
>>>>> company is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since
>>>>> the vast majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid
>>>>> goes down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB 
>>>>> line
>>>>> and their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Powerwall and other Li

[August Goers]

Hi Hilton,

We've done the math for our installed cost on the Powerwall 2. Certainly,
it wouldn't make sense to purchase it just for energy savings alone with
current California residential electricity tariffs. However, most folks are
buying it primarily for backup purposes and then a little bit of utility
savings is just icing on the cake or what storage folks are calling
"stacked benefits." The SGIP for many of our clients is over $5k per
Powerwall (now a little lower) and many clients are pairing with PV and
taking the 30% Fed tax credit. All in all, it is a very good deal.

August

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Hilton Dier  wrote:

> Has anyone calculated a lifetime cost per stored and delivered kWh for any
> of these lithium battery systems?
>
> From the rough numbers I’ve come up with in the past it seems like daily
> cycling to avoid grid use would be a dead loss. The capital cost vs
> capacity and cycle life doesn’t add up.
>
> Also, I know mentioning this is out of line per list etiquette, but could
> people refrain from including 20 preceding messages in their posts? I tend
> to read this on my phone and my scrolling finger is getting shorter. Thanks!
>
> Hilton
>
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank

[August Goers]

As I mentioned on a related post, Tesla's Powerwall has an active heating
feature where it will use some of its own energy to raise cell temperature.
Obviously this means that it will need to be charged throughout the cold
season using some amount of PV energy to do so (I think I heard 250 Wh per
heating cycle depending on temps?). I understand that Tesla's offgrid
Powerwall isn't ready for prime time yet.

August

*August Goers*

Luminalt Energy Corporation


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Bill Hoffer  wrote:

> Daniel
>
> Why are we having to deal with low temp charging?  Litium batteries
> already have cell temp monitoring and relays to shut down individual cells
> when they over temp.  How hard would it be to open the relay at low temps
> too?  Seems like something the lithium battery folks should have already
> thought of?
>
> Bill hoffer
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2018 8:15 AM, "Daniel Young"  wrote:
>
> These issues are not lost on me for sure. I have to plan out a new
> protective setup to try to ensure that if the temperatures drop and the
> battery bank hits LVD, that the array cannot just charge the battery back
> up
> on it's own. Possibly some sort of temperature dependent relay or shunt
> trip
> breaker on the battery bank to ensure that below 35F the battery must be
> manually warmed to resume operation, or the system waits until the battery
> warms on it's own before allowing the CC's or even a generator to charge
> them.
>
> My understanding is that the lithium's can go below freezing easily, but
> they just cannot be charged when below freezing. They can sit down to -5F
> if
> not being charged, they can even be under discharge down to that in some
> cases. But adding controls to allow discharge, but not charge is likely a
> bit too much, best to just isolate the battery bank if below 32-35F in my
> opinion, which is what I plan to try to accomplish.
>
> Ideally someone is there to watch the batteries, but that simply is not an
> option. And the client is not likely to want a new AGM bank. But they will
> have to decide between the pro's and con's. All I can do is give them the
> info, and the choice.
>
> With Regards,
>
> Daniel Young,
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:14 PM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank
>
> The LG RESU series will trip it's breaker at around 10% Soc. It will
> require
> a human unless the LVD on the inverter is set higher than the battery. Yes
> Sir it is our responsibility to educate our users or have plane tickets (:
>
> Will be installing the Discover battery soon into Xanbus.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> > Hi Drake,
> >
> > I agree. Li-ion batteries, like lead batteries, should always have a
> > human overseer. This is a difficult reality to convey in our
> > set-it-forget it, automated world.
> >
> > One function of a Li-ion battery EMS or BMS is to prevent over discharge.
> > Once any battery cell reaches the lower limit, the battery will turn off.
> > For many systems, once charge current is again detected, the battery
> > will turn on. Some will not and require a user to turn the battery
> > back on. You can also install an external LVD device to stop power use at
> a higher SoC.
> >
> > As wrenches, its our responsibility to know our product and educate
> > the customer. Too often, this does not happen.
> >
> > Larry Crutcher
> > Starlight Solar Power Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 27, 2018, at 7:11 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> >
> > Snow on the array could be a very big problem with the heater load,
> > inverter idle current and anything else that might be left on.
> > Extended periods of heavy clouds can reduce power generation to be
> > less than system's internal losses. It seems like a pretty big gamble
> > to leave an expensive battery bank unattended, that can not go below
> > freezing, and is dependent on array power to prevent freezing.
> >
> > If AGMs survive in this application, it might be better to stay with
> > this technology.
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: offgridso...@sti.net "RE-wrenches"
> > 
> > To

Re: [RE-wrenches] TJI rafters

[August Goers]

Hi All - We tie into TJIs commonly, if you Google "TJI solar" you'll find
manufacturer docs on how to properly lag in.

August

On Mar 2, 2018 1:24 PM, "Jerry Caldwell"  wrote:

> Dear Wrenches,
>
> I have a customer with a low slope roof supported by TJI beams. Does
> anyone have experience permitting and installing on TJIs? I'm curious if
> jurisdictions are requiring Structural Engineer stamps.
>
> Since the top chord of the beams is only 1 3/8" thick should we be using
> shorter lag bolts for these installations? It also seems that it would be
> undesirable to penetrate into the web of the beam.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated here.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jerry Caldwell
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Clearance clarification please

[August Goers]

Hi All in California -

New intervening codes in California are on their way effective July 1, 2018:

   - https://cdn-web.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/errata_
   central/2016CA-IRC-070118.pdf
   - https://cdn-web.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/errata_
   central/2016CA-IFC-070118.pdf

It's a long story, but the IRC applies to R3 (single family and duplex)
buildings and allows for 18" ridge clearance. The IFC is intended to follow
the same 18" clearance but mistakenly the 36" smoke ventilation language
was not removed. Apparently this was an administrative error that is
supposed to be corrected.


August


*August Goers*

www.luminalt.com



On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:36 PM, William Miller 
wrote:

> Darryl:
>
>
>
> If you are talking about California, I must respectfully disagree.  If you
> are not talking about California, I am ignorant.
>
>
>
> California Fire Code, 2016 version, states the following for group R-3
> buildings (which I am fairly certain includes single family homes).  This
> includes provisions for pitched roofs.  Upon first reading, I do not see
> any improvements over the previous version (2012) except that it appears
> clearance from valleys has reduced from 36” to 18”.
>
>
>
> These regulations are implemented by local fire Marshalls in California
> (sometimes the same person as the Chief, sometimes not).  This gives the
> Marshalls complete discretion.  I have had good luck negotiating with
> Marshalls and finding good compromises.
>
>
>
> Excerpt from 2016 California fire code.
>
>
>
> *605.11.1.1 Roof access points. Roof access points*
>
> *shall be located in areas that do not require the placement*
>
> *of ground ladders over openings such as windows*
>
> *or doors, and located at strong points of building construction*
>
> *in locations where the access point does not*
>
> *conflict with overhead obstructions such as tree limbs,*
>
> *wires or signs.*
>
>
>
> *605.11.1.2 Solar photovoltaic systems for Group R-3*
>
> *buildings. Solar photovoltaic systems for Group R-3*
>
> *buildings shall comply with Sections 605.11.1.2.1*
>
> *through 605.11.1.2.5.*
>
> *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to*
>
> *structures designed and constructed in accordance*
>
> *with the California Residential Code.*
>
> *605.11.1.2.1 Size of solar photovoltaic array. Each*
>
> *photovoltaic array shall be limited to 150 feet (45*
>
> *720 mm) by 150 feet (45 720 mm). Multiple arrays*
>
> *shall be separated by a 3-foot-wide (914 mm) clear*
>
> *access pathway.*
>
> *605.11.1.2.2 Hip roof layouts. Panels and modules*
>
> *installed on Group R-3 buildings with hip roof layouts*
>
> *shall be located in a manner that provides a 3-*
>
> *foot-wide (914 mm) clear access pathway from the*
>
> *eave to the ridge on each roof slope where panels*
>
> *and modules are located. The access pathway shall*
>
> *be at a location on the building capable of supporting*
>
> *the fire fighters accessing the roof.*
>
> *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to*
>
> *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units*
>
> *horizontal (2:12) or less.*
>
> *605.11.1.2.3 Single-ridge roofs. Panels and modules*
>
> *installed on Group R-3 buildings with a single*
>
> *ridge shall be located in a manner that provides two,*
>
> *3-foot-wide (914 mm) access pathways from the*
>
> *eave to the ridge on each roof slope where panels*
>
> *and modules are located.*
>
> *Exception: This requirement shall not apply to*
>
> *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units*
>
> *horizontal (2:12) or less.*
>
> *605.11.1.2.4 Roofs with hips and valleys. Panels*
>
> *and modules installed on Group R-3 buildings with*
>
> *roof hips and valleys shall not be located closer than*
>
> *18 inches (457 mm) to a hip or a valley where panels/*
>
> *modules are to be placed on both sides of a hip or*
>
> *valley. Where panels are to be located on only one*
>
> *side of a hip or valley that is of equal length, the*
>
> *panels shall be permitted to be placed directly adjacent*
>
> *to the hip or valley.*
>
> *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to*
>
> *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units*
>
> *horizontal (2:12) or less.*
>
> *605.11.1.2.5 Allowance for smoke ventilation*
>
> *operations. Panels and modules installed on Group*
>
> *R-3 buildings shall be located not less than 3 feet*
>
> *(914 mm) from the ridge** in order to allow for fire*
>
> *department smoke ventilation operations.*
>
> *Exception: Panels and modules shall be permitted*
>
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Chevy Bolt

[August Goers]

As a separate item to check, make sure the grounding electrode system and
neutral are all up to shape at the site. We've had problems with this with
various EVs giving an error when atempting to charge.

August
Luminalt

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Ray  wrote:

> Pretty sure the Magnum will work, since I have a customer with a Chevy
> Volt running on old Trace SW4024 inverters.  Not mod sine, but they're not
> near as clean as the Magnums either.
>
> -Ray
>
>
> On 4/23/18 12:33 PM, RE Ellison wrote:
>
>> I have a customer with a 20-year-old modified sine wave inverter that has
>> been no issue at all until recently when he arrived from New York City with
>> his Chevy bolt
>>
>> Obviously the Bolt will not tolerate the modified sine wave and we’re
>> discussing upgrading and we were wondering if the magnum inverter charger
>> would work in this situation?
>>
>> Thought that I would check with the knowledge base !
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bob Ellison
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>> -wrenc...@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or
> g/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Painting anodized rails?

[August Goers]

Aluminum takes well to spray paint primer followed by a coating of exterior
spray paint such as Rust-Oleum. As I'm sure others will point out, I'm not
sure how long it actually lasts.

August
Luminalt

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 8:10 AM cwarfel 
wrote:

> A customer has asked that I look into painting the exposed parts of the
> anodized rails on their roof mounted system to more closely match the
> shingles. (New construction, we did not know what the shingle color was
> going to be, and I have to say, I did not ask).  Has anyone any experience
> with this?  Thank you for any help. Chris
>
> --
>
>  Christopher Warfel, PE
>ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>(401)466-8978
>
> [image: EEI logo] 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] 208V single-phase inverter options

[August Goers]

Hi Andrew,

Fronius Primo inverters go up to 15 kW 208 v single phase, but are limited
to 13750 VA output in 208 volt operation. I'm not aware of larger single
phase 208 v inverters, although it is certainly possible that they are out
there.

http://www.fronius.com/en-us/usa/photovoltaics/products/all-products/inverters/fronius-primo/fronius-primo-15-0-1-208-240

August




On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 6:18 PM Andrew Truitt  wrote:

>
> I'm in the hunt for a 208V single-phase inverter in the 15-30kW range for
> installation at an RV park.  Various manufacturers have solutions below
> 12kW, but this project will involve multiple sites in the 30-80kW range and
> wall space is limited.  Anyone ever seen this illusive animal?
>
>
> *Regards, *
>
> *Andrew Truitt | DRV *
> www.dr.ventures
> d: 202.486.7507
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132
>
>
>
> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion
> to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor
> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"
>
> ~William McDonough
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] M210 Enphase

[August Goers]

We have many M210 and M190 micros installed and deal with replacements
frequently. If you're seeing physical signs of oozing or swelling, it's
only a matter of time before they stop working. Enphase should replace them
under warranty, especially if you explain that now is the time to get them
swapped and show them the pics.

August
Luminalt

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 8:08 AM Bill Hennessy  wrote:

> Ron, Give Enphase a call; replacements are usually sent without a hassle.
> They have a lot of experience replacing their older inverters.
>
> regards, bill
>
> Bill Hennessy
> Berks Solar, LLC
> 371 Centennial Rd
> Mertztown, PA 19539
>
> o 610 682 4300
> c 484 560 4666
> NABCEP certified installer
> PA contractor #44411
> www.berkssolar.com
>
>
> --
> *From:* RM You 
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 27, 2018 9:46 PM
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] M210 Enphase
>
> Anyone have a source of M210 Enphase inverters? I have a customer who has
> 3 out of 12 that are leaking and as he is getting his roof re-done would
> like to replace those before problems occur. They are still working
> properly but I don’t know the likelihood of failure. I could replace them
> with 215’s but the trunk cable plugs are different so would have to run a
> separate trunk cable for just those 3 unless there is an adapter. Any
> suggestions wildly appreciated ;) !
>
> Ron
> earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Bi-Directional / Netmetering question

[August Goers]

Jason,

In our territory the utility (PG&E) starting switching to digital smart
meters five to ten years ago. In order to function properly with a PV
system, meters need to be programmed for Net Energy Metering (NEM). If you
run a PV system prior to receiving Permission To Operate (PTO) from the
utility, backfed energy may actually register as energy consumed by the
property. The meter will still show a little arrow to the left (meaning
backfeeding to grid) but they will bill you as if that energy was being
consumed. I can't say that all meters work this way, but I can verify that
it has happened when some of our customers jumped the gun and turned on
their system prior to receiving PTO. This could be a totally separate issue
from what you're seeing, but thought I'd just chime in.

Best,

August




On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 2:44 PM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I did a little test today and it looks like everything was reading
> correctly. Really strange. I took meter readings and times, so I'll go back
> in a week or so and compare the meter readings to Enlighten monitoring. All
> CTs are correct (I've corrected so many wrong ones at this point that I'm
> definitely expert level on that). On this site I actually have two
> conductors per CT because there is a meter/main combo feeding both a main
> panel inside the garage and a pool subpanel (3/0 and #6 conductors). I
> triple checked directionality and line matching. I removed the CTs, checked
> for the magnetic inserts, and reinstalled them. Everything checked out. I
> considered putting in parallel CTs, but it shouldn't be necessary.
>
>
> To Dave Tedeyan's point, line-to-line matching results in the most errors
> we see in the field now. For example, Eaton main breakers criss-cross
> inside, so the lugs top and bottom are reversed. I always check the
> voltage across the line to load side of the main to double check.
>
> Now if Enphase would just change the wording of the CT measurement options
> in the Installer Toolkit we could all avoid those annoying errors. It
> should simply ask if the consumption CTs are on the load or line side of
> the interconnection point (breaker or tap). And while on the subject, let
> installers change the setting in the Toolkit!
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:53 AM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>> I have seen utilities misappropriate values from their meter to the
>> billing. That might explain your discrepancies.
>>
>> William
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2018, at 7:57 AM, Lorenzo Ortiz  wrote:
>>
>> Fun fact: Sometimes the stickers on the CT's are incorrect too. Had that
>> happen and took forever to figure out...
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Kirpal  wrote:
>>
>>> Jason...not sure about the Enphase consumption monitoring, if it is done
>>> with CT's confirm that your CT's are facing the right direction.  Some CT's
>>> are directional and perhaps your consumption monitoring could be backwards
>>> instead of the utility meter wiring backwards.Seems like the utility
>>> would have noticed incorrect wiring in their can.
>>> We use the E Gauge CT clamps for some monitoring and they are
>>> directional.  I am not familiar with the Enphase versions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sunny Regards,
>>> Kirpal Khalsa
>>> Oregon LRT#25
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>>> 541-299-0402
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
 Is it possible for a utility meter to be programmed/wired backward? I
 have a client on an Enphase system with production and consumption
 monitoring, and the Enphase monitoring is showing solar production exceeded
 consumption by 400 kWh for a billing period. However, the meter is reading
 almost exactly the opposite. It seems too coincidental.

 I'm going to go out to the site tomorrow to shut down all of the loads
 and see what happens when solar is only backfeeding the meter, but I'm
 curious how the meters are "programmed" or set up to work.

 Note that the meter was zeroed to start and the initial billing period
 readings show DEL exceeded REC by 400 kWh, which matches what was billed
 (net usage of positive 400 kWh).

 Jason Szumlanski

 ___
 List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

 Change listserver email address & settings:
 http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

 List-Archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

 List rules & etiquette:
 www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

 Check out or update participant bios:
 www.members.re-wrenches.org



>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Allia

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tapping Parallel Conductors

[August Goers]

Hi Garrison,

This is a new one for me - normally we always balance everything when
dealing with paralleled conductors. NEC 310.10(H) talks about conductors in
parallel and I can't see anything the explicitly forbids what you
explained. To be safe, I think it is worth contacting the PE to double
check that they were aware that there are three sets of parallel conductors
on each phase.

August
Luminalt


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:09 AM Garrison  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> When making a supply side connection on parallel sets of conductors is it
> required to tap all conductors on each phase?
>
> I have a set of plans with an 800A interconnection on a 1200A service.
> Service has three parallel sets of 500MCM. Plans call for tapping just two
> conductors on each set of three. Plans are stamped by an EE.  I had been
> working under the assumption that if tapping parallel sets all conductors
> must be tapped.
>
> Any issues with not tapping all sets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Garrison Riegel
> Rethink Electric
> 630-998-3629
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing graffiti from modules

[August Goers]

If your modules don't have anti reflective coating then you can scrape them
with a sharp razor blade scraper. Goo Gone or one of the similar products
might help at well.

August
Luminalt




On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 8:30 AM frenergy  wrote:

> Help us with this Benn.  Are we talking spray paint, airgun, acrylic,
> crayon, lipstick..?  Recently, due to not having any rain for 3.5
> months in  smokey with ash No. California, I referred to the REC website
> for cleaning PVs and they didn't suggest anything stronger than  a solution
> of "*a mild biological and biodegradable washing-up liquid may be used on
> the panels*".  They did go on to say for stubborn areas that 10%
> iso-propyl alcohol could be used.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
> On 9/9/2018 6:55 AM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
> Do any of you have experience removing graffiti from solar modules?
> Any tips for do’s and dont’s?
> Thanks
>
> Benn Kilburn
> SkyFire Energy
> 780-906-7807
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-260660901124567865_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Bending

[August Goers]

Don't forget about YouTube - a quick search for "conduit bending" yields
dozens of helpful videos, some professionally produced.

August
Luminalt


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:00 PM Dana  wrote:

> I too have been perplexed on the art of conduit bending. One of my
> favorite master electricians in CO suggested that I go online & get a DVD &
> book with tips & calcs that he makes available to his apprentices.
>
> Relatively cheap compared to experimenting/guessing - time & a pile of
> odd-looking material attempts.
>
>
>
> It was completely worth the $100+/- I spent.
>
> I checked on Amazon & it looked like it was there still there.
>
> *Conduit Bending Program with DVD AND Bending Charts Book Supplement –
> 2016 *
>
> I am still learning but it’s lots easier.
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *toddc...@finestplanet.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2018 2:56 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Bending
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 2, 2018 12:40pm, "Michael Morningstar" <
> mjmornings...@gmail.com> said:
>
> William,
>
>
>
> When one is doing a lot of bending of rigid conduit, where the finished
> length of pipe needs to be determined, after all bends are made, and
> threading happens first due to bends interfering with the threading
> machine, one develops a DOPE sheet. The term being borrowed from long
> distance marksmanship, Data On Previous Engagements. One bends scrap pipe
> to various angles, and by making marks where the bender makes contact with
> both stub marks, and the 45 degree and saddle marks, a cheat sheet can be
> developed to help with arriving at desired stub lengths and calculating
> “shrink”, the amount that a length of pipe shortens after bends are made.
> Similarly a DOPE sheet can be made, or trigonometry can be used when making
> concentric bends and segmented bending.
>
> That was the world I inhabited for a decade and a half. Now days, if I get
> into that situation, bend and cut : )
>
> Michael
>
> On Nov 2, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Ray  wrote:
>
> I usually do the bend and cut method, because it really is faster and EMT
> is cheap.  Look how much time you are already cooking doing research and
> exploring various apps, etc?  I too have wanted to be the cool pro, and
> bend to exact measurements, but alas, the sun is setting much sooner now,
> and I need to get the job done.  Also, I recently picked up a nifty reamer
> attachment that chucks up in a cordless drill and finishes the cut end
> nicely.  Between that and my porta band saw,  the bend and cut method is
> faster and the finished job is just as good.  Actually I just switched to
> Metal Clad 6-3 for my PV runs, and it seems better as well.
>
> I look forward to hearing what other more accomplished conduit smiths have
> to offer, though.
>
> Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760
>
> On 11/2/18 12:18 PM, William Miller wrote:
>
> Colleagues:
>
>
>
> I am always trying to improve my conduit bending skills.  I came upon this
> scenario and need some input:
>
>
>
> I am bending stubs at less than 90 degrees.  How do I calculate stub
> heights at less than 90 degrees?  I am using the old
> bend-it-longer-and-cut-it-to-length method but that does not suit my
> personal style.  I want to make a mark, bend from it and have it fit.
>
>
>
> I have searched on line and purchased several IOS apps for conduit
> bending.  None of my research has turned up an answer.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com 
> 805-438-5600
>
>
>
>
>
> ___ List sponsored by Redwood
> Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change
> listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or
> update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update

[RE-wrenches] Equipment ideas for very large residential PV and battery backup

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,

We have a new potential client who wants a 60 kW PV system and a battery
backup system with 200 kWh of storage. The system will be grid tied and the
client insists on some sort of lithium battery technology and doesn't want
Tesla. For such a ridiculously large system, what kind of equipment would
you recommend? I'm thinking maybe Sunny Islands with Blue Ion LiFePO4
batteries?

Best, August

*August Goers*

Luminalt Energy Corporation
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Equipment ideas for very large residential PV and battery backup

[August Goers]

Thanks All for the ideas. For the battery inverters, I'm most interested in
sticking with SMA or Schneider which I've had good experience with in the
past. Over the past year and a half our experience has been focused on the
Tesla Powerwall with SGIP  <http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/sgip/> incentivized
projects. Tesla is now allowing up to ten Powerwalls per Gateway which is
about 135 kWh of storage - more than enough for most folks! But this
particular client doesn't want Tesla and insists on wanting more the 200
kWh of storage. As many of your know, SGIP is not for backup purposes but
rather for advanced grid support functionality. I'm curious whether we can
program with Schneider XW to meet SGIP requirements and I've been under the
impression that we can't with the SMA Sunny Island. Regardless, it might be
easiest to just program the inverters for backup only operation and just
skip the SGIP all together.

Best, August


On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 7:17 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

> Hi, my supplier, just today introduced us to a new product they are
> selling.  This is Werner Electric supply in MN  the product is Energport
> i...@energport.com  or www.energport.com  They have models up to 60 kW
> and 120 kWh
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 2:49 PM August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>> We have a new potential client who wants a 60 kW PV system and a battery
>> backup system with 200 kWh of storage. The system will be grid tied and the
>> client insists on some sort of lithium battery technology and doesn't want
>> Tesla. For such a ridiculously large system, what kind of equipment would
>> you recommend? I'm thinking maybe Sunny Islands with Blue Ion LiFePO4
>> batteries?
>>
>> Best, August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Equipment ideas for very large residential PV and battery backup

[August Goers]

Hi Jay - The battery kW rating isn't necessarily set. Assuming a 60 kW-DC
PV system, we might have about ~50 kW (or a bit more) of PV inverter rating
so I'd by default match the battery inverter rating to that (about 50 kW)
if it was AC coupled. If, for example, we go with four SMA 6048-US Sunny
Islands as our constraint then we might need to split up some of the PV to
be solely grid tied. Long story short, I'm not sure yet.

August


On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 10:09 AM Jay  wrote:

> Hi August
> Did you tell us how many kW of battery inverter you needed?
>
> Jay
>
> On Jan 11, 2019, at 6:40 AM, August Goers  wrote:
>
> Thanks All for the ideas. For the battery inverters, I'm most interested
> in sticking with SMA or Schneider which I've had good experience with in
> the past. Over the past year and a half our experience has been focused on
> the Tesla Powerwall with SGIP  <http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/sgip/> incentivized
> projects. Tesla is now allowing up to ten Powerwalls per Gateway which is
> about 135 kWh of storage - more than enough for most folks! But this
> particular client doesn't want Tesla and insists on wanting more the 200
> kWh of storage. As many of your know, SGIP is not for backup purposes but
> rather for advanced grid support functionality. I'm curious whether we can
> program with Schneider XW to meet SGIP requirements and I've been under the
> impression that we can't with the SMA Sunny Island. Regardless, it might be
> easiest to just program the inverters for backup only operation and just
> skip the SGIP all together.
>
> Best, August
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 7:17 PM Darryl Thayer 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, my supplier, just today introduced us to a new product they are
>> selling.  This is Werner Electric supply in MN  the product is Energport
>> i...@energport.com  or www.energport.com  They have models up to 60 kW
>> and 120 kWh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 2:49 PM August Goers  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>>
>>> We have a new potential client who wants a 60 kW PV system and a battery
>>> backup system with 200 kWh of storage. The system will be grid tied and the
>>> client insists on some sort of lithium battery technology and doesn't want
>>> Tesla. For such a ridiculously large system, what kind of equipment would
>>> you recommend? I'm thinking maybe Sunny Islands with Blue Ion LiFePO4
>>> batteries?
>>>
>>> Best, August
>>>
>>> *August Goers*
>>>
>>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Curved solar mounting

[August Goers]

Hi Jason - We've used Unirac SunFrame for similar applications. I'm not
certain that the shared rail can accommodate the slight different in angle
between module rows due to the curve, but it might be worth checking out if
you haven't already:

https://unirac.com/sunframe/

August


On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 6:06 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some ideas for attaching modules to a curved carport
> system. I attached a concept drawing. I'm pretty dead-set on through
> bolting to the frames, but bottom clips would probably work if using an
> off-the-shelf rail system. Any products or picture you can supply would be
> very helpful.
>
> The uprights pictured are already determined. It's a 20' radius curve. I'm
> assuming it will be steel tube bent to that radius. The total length will
> be much longer than what is pictured. The general contractor is willing to
> entertain any welded or bolted solution for the structure.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Curved solar mounting

[August Goers]

Some more ideas:

If you want to go custom, you should be able to through-bolt to the bottom
of the module frame with standard stainless hardware per the manufacturer
instructions. Here is an example from SunPower's installation guide
<https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpower/files/media-library/manuals/mn-sunpower-solar-panels-safety-installation-guide-na.pdf>
:

"Frame Holes: Secure the module to the structure using the factory mounting
holes. Four 1/4″ stainless steel bolts, with nuts, washers, and lock
washers are recommended per module; tightened to a min. torque of 10 inlbs.
Refer to Table 4 for the module dimensions and hole locations. This method
has been certified by a third-party organization according to UL 1703. For
frame hole mounting, modules must be secured using the holes located at
322mm from the short end of the module for 72 and 96 cell modules and 433mm
from the end of the module for 128 cell modules. For carport installations
the supporting structure has been pre-drilled. For 128 cell modules for
carport assembly, modules must be secured using only the holes located
433mm from the ends of the module and hardware described above in Section
4.1, Item 5. See Figure 2 for carport assembly details."

We typically spec out an EPDM pad or washer between the module, rail, and
or sub rack system to avoid dissimilar metal corrosion unless the materials
are all the same.

For wire management, there are more and more clips available on the market
designed to secure wiring without needing classic zip ties. Maybe your AC
module manufacturer has accessories? When cable ties are needed, I always
like using the Heyco Sunbundler
<https://www.heyco.com/Solar_Power_Components/pdf/SunBundler-Cable-Ties.pdf>
.

Just some thoughts,

August

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:37 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I don't think I'm going to get the spans I need in this high wind area
> with an off-the-shelf aluminum solar rail. I think the purlins will need to
> be steel. I'm thinking either Z-purlins or I-beams. I have to mount the
> modules in landscape. I guess what I'm really looking for is standard
> hardware that I can bolt to the purlins/beams and bolt or clip to the
> module frame.
>
> These will likely be AC modules, so I also need to consider wire
> management.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:54 AM August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason - We've used Unirac SunFrame for similar applications. I'm not
>> certain that the shared rail can accommodate the slight different in angle
>> between module rows due to the curve, but it might be worth checking out if
>> you haven't already:
>>
>> https://unirac.com/sunframe/
>>
>> August
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 6:06 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for some ideas for attaching modules to a curved carport
>>> system. I attached a concept drawing. I'm pretty dead-set on through
>>> bolting to the frames, but bottom clips would probably work if using an
>>> off-the-shelf rail system. Any products or picture you can supply would be
>>> very helpful.
>>>
>>> The uprights pictured are already determined. It's a 20' radius curve.
>>> I'm assuming it will be steel tube bent to that radius. The total length
>>> will be much longer than what is pictured. The general contractor is
>>> willing to entertain any welded or bolted solution for the structure.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archiv

Re: [RE-wrenches] Multiple inverters

[August Goers]

Hi Chris,

For string inverters, the OCPD is sized per 705.60(B) which will specify
the minimum breaker rating you need. Then, you can't go above the maximum
OCPD specified by the manufacturer. For most string inverters that I can
think of, this limits us to one breaker (OCPD) per inverter. I recall
bumping into a string inverter without a maximum specificed OCPD rating,
but I don't recall which one at the moment.

However, for microinverter based systems it is standard to install multiple
inverters on one branch circuit with one OCPD.

August


On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 10:43 AM Christopher Warfel <
cwar...@entech-engineering.com> wrote:

> I know I keep popping up on this, but 2014 makes no sense if it is saying
> to connect multiple inverters to one disconnect. It would be difficult and
> dangerous to take one out of service for any reason including replacement.
> I would that that you'd have to shut down all the inverters just to replace
> one. Some of the large commercial/industrial/utility systems have hundreds
> of inverters and there is no way they would install a system to this
> interpretation of the NEC.
> On 2/27/2019 12:22 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
>
> William,
>
> It seems this question needs to be addressed: What is the intended meaning
> of “installed in one system” in 2014? If you have separate “systems”, they
> should not be governed by 705.12. So, at what point does a “system” begin
> and end? PV modules to the disconnect? ...to the load panel? ...to the
> service entrance?
>
> Larry
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2019, at 10:42 PM, William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> August:
>
>
> The 2014 code, which the AHJ for this project is using, states the
> following:
>
>
> (*1) Dedicated Overcurrent and Disconnect. The source*
> *interconnection of one or more inverters installed in one*
> *system shall be made at a dedicated circuit breaker or fusible*
> *disconnecting means.*
>
>
> Note that the language says, “The source interconnection…” (singular), and
> “at a dedicated circuit breaker…”(again singular).  This makes it obvious
> to me that the language says that the outputs of multiple inverters need to
> be aggregated and connected via *one* OCPD.  I think the other wrenches
> missed this point.
>
>
> Your input is valuable by contrasting the language of the 2014 code with
> that of the 2017 version.  The inclusion of the phrase “Each source…” in
> the 2017 code completely changes the meaning.  Some AHJs will look to
> future code versions for clarity even if they are not yet adopted.  I think
> this is a good thing, and I really appreciate you bringing up the new
> language.
>
>
> The article from AEIA magazine ratifies the conclusion I drew from the
> 2014 code.  Fortunately the AHJ is misinterpreting the section to allow the
> more liberal interpretation, the one that the 2017 code reflects.  I find
> it best to contact the plan checker directly, which I did, and we are
> approved for multiple OCPDs.  By the way, I think that article is well
> written and I have book marked it.
>
>
> I don’t know if the 2014 language was a mistake corrected in 2107, or what
> the thinking was of the authors.  Regardless, we live by the language, not
> the intent.
>
>
> Thank you as well to all who responded.
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* August Goers [mailto:aug...@luminalt.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 25, 2019 9:07 AM
> *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Multiple inverters
>
>
> Hi William -
>
>
> In this case, it is helpful to look forward to the 2017 NEC for guidance:
>
>
> 
>
>
> I believe it's perfectly fine to have multiple inverter breakers in your
> main.
>
>
> August
> Luminalt
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:42 AM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
> I have an NEC code question on an upcoming project.  It is a home that has
> an existing 8 kW ground-mounted grid-tied system.  The owner wants to add
> another 10 kW of grid-tied PV.  My question is about 705.12, point of
> connection.  Specifically section (D)(1).  That section states:
>
>
> *The source interconnection of one or more inverters installed in one
> system shall be made at a dedicated circuit breaker or fusible
> disconnecting means.*
>
>
> So if there are going to be two inverters on premise, do the outputs have
> to be aggregated to connect via one circuit breaker?  This might be
> difficult to do as the exiting inverter is connected via a different
> sub-panel than the one that is planned to receive the new inverter output.
>
>
> This article
> <https://iaeimagazine.org/mag

Re: [RE-wrenches] Plated versus unplated eyelets

[August Goers]

Hi William -

I would stick with tin coated copper battery cable lugs. The tin coating
adds corrosion resistance to the copper - this is especially important for
battery connections which already have a tendency to corrode. The ground
lugs we all historically used on our racking systems should have been all
tin coated copper (or now there are some tin coated aluminum) lugs with
stainless hardware for the same reason.

August

Luminalt


On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 8:21 PM Kienan Maxfield 
wrote:

> William,
>
> The plain copper can corrode much faster. I like the tinned ones made by
> Quick Cable. You can get them from PV Cables. pvcables.com
>
> I really like PV Cables. They always treat me really well and their prices
> are great.
>
> Thanks,
> Kienan
>
> Mayfield Solar
> (801) 631-5584
> maxfieldso...@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2019, at 10:28 PM, William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> Just wondering if anyone of you have a preference of finish on copper
> battery lead eyelets.  I have always used tinned.  I notice the plain
> copper are half the cost.  I never really looked into this.  Has anyone
> else?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
> Quote of the day:  “If there is a job you hate, get really,
>
> really good at it. Maybe you will hate it less.“ W. Miller
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cutting rail

[August Goers]

I'll chime in on the cordless bandsaw revolution - they're the best! We
have been using DeWalt 20v products and they make both a large deep-cut
version and a smaller version. The large bandsaw is great for the roof and
the small one is great for electrical work such as cutting conduit (like
butter). Each of our crews has one of each.

Best,

August
Luminalt


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 9:48 AM Ray  wrote:

> We love our cordless Milwaukee Portaband.  We've cut Schedule 80 6" pipe
> with ours, just working around a bit at a time.  We got the 10 to 14
> variable tooth blade, cuts incredibly fast, but leaves a cleaner edge.
>
> Once you use a Portaband cordless, you are never going to use a sawzall or
> circ. saw for cutting rails unless you have to.  Safety is vastly improved,
> and you can't argue safety.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 6/12/19 11:24 PM, Kirpal wrote:
>
> Just like the other gents mentioned...but I would add...get the saw blade
> with 10 teeth per inchwill not clog up with the soft aluminum.   You
> will love the saw for cutting conduit too.  All done relatively quietly
> without all the jarring.
> Kirpal
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 9:32 PM frenergy  wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions for cutting rail with a Sawzall?  Many times at the end
>> of a run of PVs there could be 5-6" of rail (in this case DPW P8).  I
>> like to use a circular saw but sometimes I don't have enough clearance
>> once the rail and panels are installed.  The sawzall works but I'm
>> looking for a blade that doesn't load up with aluminum too fast and cuts
>> without too much vibration.  Other ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049
>> www.frenergy.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

[August Goers]

Andrew - I imagine you've already considered a StorEdge and LG Chem battery?

August
Luminalt


On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 11:18 AM Andrew  wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> I got a situation where I got a client who wants to get
> solar with battery backup but where he is located the grid cannot currently
> accept incoming solar, but we can buy from them. I was thinking about doing
> an conext xw system and then solaredge ac coupling for module level
> shutdown but I don’t know how well that would be on the conext side of
> things for charging some discover lithium ion batteries? I would rather do
> standard DC coupled system but not familiar with any of those 3rd party
> rapid shutdown devices(fire raptor and midnite?), has anyone used any
> before?
>
>
>
> Andrew Perkins
>
> Greenwired
>
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> www.greenwired.com
>
> [image: Description: signature]
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

[August Goers]

Andrew -

With the StorEdge and LG Chem product, the StorEdge inverter (DC coupled
inverter for both PV and the battery) is the brains of the system and can
be programmed to your liking. If you are not familiar with the product, you
should check it out.

https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/storedge#/

August


On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 9:14 AM Andrew  wrote:

> I would love to use that setup but I cant export any power, I can buy it
> but nothing can go back to the grid. Can the LG Chem be programmed to do
> that? I havent put one in yet but really want too.
>
>
>
> Andrew Perkins
>
> Greenwired
>
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> www.greenwired.com
>
> [image: Description: signature]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *August Goers
> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 3:29 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext
>
>
>
> Andrew - I imagine you've already considered a StorEdge and LG Chem
> battery?
>
>
>
> August
>
> Luminalt
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 11:18 AM Andrew  wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
>
> I got a situation where I got a client who wants to get
> solar with battery backup but where he is located the grid cannot currently
> accept incoming solar, but we can buy from them. I was thinking about doing
> an conext xw system and then solaredge ac coupling for module level
> shutdown but I don’t know how well that would be on the conext side of
> things for charging some discover lithium ion batteries? I would rather do
> standard DC coupled system but not familiar with any of those 3rd party
> rapid shutdown devices(fire raptor and midnite?), has anyone used any
> before?
>
>
>
> Andrew Perkins
>
> Greenwired
>
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> www.greenwired.com
>
> [image: Description: signature]
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] spaghetti mat

[August Goers]

Hi Bruce,

Yes, we use yellow spaghetti mat daily to protect the roof. Carpet scraps
available from flooring dealers also work well. Both are good for up to
about 30 degrees (7/12 roof). Spaghetti mat can be reused many times but
can be slippery when wet. Thermo-ply or some other relatively thin board
type materials can be really helpful for roof staging areas.

August
Luminalt


On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 6:05 PM Bruce Erickson 
wrote:

> Does anyone have any experience to share about using spaghetti mat for
> protecting comp or other roofs? Safety? Maximum pitch, etc?
> Or any other good roof protection techniques, now that we’re getting into
> hot weather season again.
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>
> *Bruce Erickson*
> Mendocino Solar Service
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
> 707-937-1701
> 707-937-1741 fax
> br...@mendocinosolar.com
>
> *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Bonding battery systems

[August Goers]

Hi William -

This article is a few years old, but I think describes ground fault
detection issues well:
http://www.solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/blindspot/pdfs/inverter_groundfault-2013.pdf


I don't have experience (at least since the late 90s) with the type of GFD
breaker you describe on the DC-side PV circuit. We switched to AC coupled
systems with standard grid tied inverters (transformerless non-isolated)
years ago. What kind of setup are you referring to?

Best,

August

Luminalt



On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:42 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Wrenches:
>
>
>
> Here is a question that has bothered me for some time:  If one is using a
> GFD (ground fault detection) breaker on a PV feeder(s) to a battery
> inverter system, the state of the industry is to use a breaker with an
> extra 0.5 or 1 amp pole.  This section of the breaker connects, or bonds
> the DC negative, or grounded conductor, to the grounding system.
>
>
>
> In order for the GFD breaker to work one needs to isolate the grounded bus
> bar (negative).  If there is a ground fault the breaker opens and breaks
> the bond.
>
>
>
> This goes very much against my conceptualization of how a bonding system
> should work.  The bond should never be broken, particularly when there is a
> fault in the system.  When this breaker opens, either manually or by an
> overcurrent condition on any pole, the DC bond is removed for all portions
> of the DC system.
>
>
>
> There is a prominent personality in the industry that often presents
> academic opinions on solar related electrical issues in articles and in
> seminars.  This person claimed to have invented this GFD system, but when
> pressed to comment on the concerns mentioned above, changed the subject.
>
>
>
> I believe ground fault protection is important.  I just don’t believe the
> method the industry has offered is really effective in solving the issues
> presented in a ground fault scenario.
>
>
>
> I believe similar issues present on non-battery PV systems with the simple
> fuse in the ground system found on many inverters.  I know some
> troubleshooting guides warn of energized parts in ground fault conditions.
>
>
>
> Have any of you thought about these concerns?  Are my concerns valid?
> What are your policies on this subject?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
> Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy
>
> storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Bonding battery systems

[August Goers]

Hi William -

Check out the Solarpro Magazine archive May/June 2017 issue page 34: it
addresses "functional grounded PV systems."

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d49ff9_ccc99efe7b344f6a945ca2e00f8a71d8.pdf

And the definition found in 2017 NEC 690.2:

[image: image.png]
Yes, the normally grounded white conductor might be hot during a fault
condition. Is it safe? Well, it's not that great of a setup but I think
it's the lesser of all evils constrained by the relatively old school
inverter technology. I'm a huge believer in the benefits in the new high
voltage batteries such as the LG Chem product that can be wired up with
#10s and have integrated safety features built in to the battery enclosure.
Surely this must be the future.

To answer your question, we do almost all grid tied systems up here in the
San Francisco Bay Area. We've been installing the Tesla Powerwall 2 with
about 50% of our PV systems - it's been a widely popular product.
Historically, we installed a few Sunny Island AC coupled (and a few Outback
and Schneider XW) systems annually.

August
Luminalt


On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 10:22 AM William Miller 
wrote:

> August:
>
> I read the referenced report. It does not address the concern I raised—
> that is the breaker specified unbonds a system that I believe is supposed
> to be bonded.
>
> William
>
> On Jul 23, 2019, at 8:38 AM, August Goers  wrote:
>
> Hi William -
>
> This article is a few years old, but I think describes ground fault
> detection issues well:
> http://www.solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/blindspot/pdfs/inverter_groundfault-2013.pdf
>
>
> I don't have experience (at least since the late 90s) with the type of GFD
> breaker you describe on the DC-side PV circuit. We switched to AC coupled
> systems with standard grid tied inverters (transformerless non-isolated)
> years ago. What kind of setup are you referring to?
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
> Luminalt
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:42 PM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches:
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is a question that has bothered me for some time:  If one is using a
>> GFD (ground fault detection) breaker on a PV feeder(s) to a battery
>> inverter system, the state of the industry is to use a breaker with an
>> extra 0.5 or 1 amp pole.  This section of the breaker connects, or bonds
>> the DC negative, or grounded conductor, to the grounding system.
>>
>>
>>
>> In order for the GFD breaker to work one needs to isolate the grounded
>> bus bar (negative).  If there is a ground fault the breaker opens and
>> breaks the bond.
>>
>>
>>
>> This goes very much against my conceptualization of how a bonding system
>> should work.  The bond should never be broken, particularly when there is a
>> fault in the system.  When this breaker opens, either manually or by an
>> overcurrent condition on any pole, the DC bond is removed for all portions
>> of the DC system.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a prominent personality in the industry that often presents
>> academic opinions on solar related electrical issues in articles and in
>> seminars.  This person claimed to have invented this GFD system, but when
>> pressed to comment on the concerns mentioned above, changed the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe ground fault protection is important.  I just don’t believe the
>> method the industry has offered is really effective in solving the issues
>> presented in a ground fault scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe similar issues present on non-battery PV systems with the
>> simple fuse in the ground system found on many inverters.  I know some
>> troubleshooting guides warn of energized parts in ground fault conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you thought about these concerns?  Are my concerns valid?
>> What are your policies on this subject?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any insight.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>> Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy
>>
>> storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrench

Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off-Grid Residential System and ciculating currents

[August Goers]

Hi William - Yea, your kWh calculation is correct. However, the 16 kWh Blue
Ion is comparable to eight L16 (6 volt x 333 Ah each) batteries, not one -
nameplate rating. Typically you can go way deeper discharge with the
lithium products, so the Blue Ion might be more comparable to sixteen (or
even more) L16 batteries in the real world.

I can't speak to the parallel battery issue you raise with Blue Ion or
other similar batteries such as Discover - it would seem like their
engineering team could help with that.

August

Luminalt


On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 4:59 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am a complete newbie to any lithium technologies, so please forgive some
> newbie questions:
>
>
>
> I am used to working in amp hours.  If we are looking for a battery bank
> in the range of 100 kWh, this converts to about 2,083 amp/hours at 48 VDC.
> Is my arithmetic correct?  An on-line calculator seems to confirm this.
>
>
>
> The biggest Blue Ion 2 battery is 16 kwh.  At 48 VDC this is about 333
> amp/hours.  This is like an L16.  To get 100 kwh you would need to parallel
> 6 strings of the 16 kWh batteries.  I would never do this with L-16s.  Is
> anyone worried about circulating currents in this type of installation?  Is
> there technology to prevent one string from cannibalizing another?
>
>
>
> Here is another, more academic question below:
>
>
>
> In case I am using a term I made up (which is often the case), I define
> circulating currents as currents flowing between parallel strings without
> any outside influence.  For example, if you disconnected all charging and
> loads from an array with two parallel strings, unless the strings were
> absolutely identical in electrical characteristics, there would be some
> current flowing between the two strings.  In my opinion this is the
> Achilles heel in parallel strings.  Also my opinions:  2. The more strings
> you have the more chance there will be debilitating circulating currents.
> 3. The older the batteries, the more the electrical characteristics will
> vary and the more likely you will get higher circulating currents.
>
>
>
> It is my theory that if you can measure the circulating currents, or the
> difference between parallel battery strings at any point in the operation
> of same, you can get a read on the health of the strings.  The more the
> operating or idle currents diverge, the more one string will discharge the
> other string.  I guess this is some part of a battery management system.  I
> am guessing for the Blue Ion 2 to work in 6 parallel strings, they need to
> monitor and control this difference in currents.
>
>
>
> We just installed a flooded battery array (2 strings of 4 Deka M6100-33
> batteries).  My plan is to retrofit the installation with a 1000A/100mv
> shunt in the negative leads of both strings.  With a DVM I can spot check
> the circulating currents to learn about the battery health.  In fact I have
> a remote monitoring system
> 
> with some spare ports that can log these values.  Might be an interesting
> experiment.
>
>
>
> I appreciate any input on the viability of the Blue Ion 2 or other small
> battery systems in multi-string installations.  My customers are asking for
> new technology, but I instinctively avoid parallel battery strings.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
> Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy
>
> storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Lou Russo
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 20, 2019 1:50 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off-Grid Residential System
>
>
>
> Blue Ion 2.0 with Outback or SMA. Works every time.
>
> Blue Planet's tech support is great, the warranty is even better.
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
>
>
> Lou Russo
>
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
>
> 808 345 6762
>
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>
> CT-34322
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 10:36 AM Jay  wrote:
>
> Hi Marco,
>
>
>
> Is the max surge 7kw, which is what is listed on line?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz Power
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2019, at 3:10 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
> Seven to eight Tesla Powerwalls will get you that assuming that the
> service entrance is no bigger than 200A.
>
>
>
> marco
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2019, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> What are current popular options for battery based systems in the 100kWh
> range? Preferably Lithium.
>
>
>
> Also, what inverter pairing is suggested with total stacked capacity of
> 36kW, 120/240V?
>
>
>
> This is slightly larger than some of the systems I have worked with
> recently. I'm a bit out of the loop, particularly on the battery side of
> things.
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlan

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Hi Marco - We have dozens of systems with this combo, so far no problem.
Tesla's AC coupling mechanism in general seems to be very robust - we've
paired them with many inverter types and brands, and they always seem to
couple up during our grid-off tests. Since the vast majority of our systems
are grid tied, the real test will be how they will work over the long haul
if we have major grid outages - who knows if and when that might happen.
I've been in PG&E territory in the Bay Area for about 15 years and can only
recall one or two short (less than one hour) power outages.


August




On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
> Powerwall or two.
>
> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>
> Mahalo,
> marco
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system

[August Goers]

Many appliances, motors, AC units, etc are rated for 230 volts, but really
they work for our modern 240 volt services. If you do a quick web search,
it appears that US standard voltages over the years have morphed from 110
to 115, to 120 volt:

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/difference-between-220v-and-240v

-August


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:11 PM David Palumbo 
wrote:

> The heat pump is a made for USA product that operates on 1ph 60Hz and with
> an acceptable voltage range of 210 to 253Vac. I don’t know why they list it
> as 230Vac, could have listed it as 240Vac. Same thing as loads that are
> either listed as 115Vac or 120Vac, not much real world difference. With
> typical utility voltages and with line loss going out to the heat pump
> actual voltage at the load is more likely closer to 230Vac than to 240Vac.
>
> Dave Palumbo
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Glenn Burt 
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 25, 2019 1:53 PM
> *To: *'RE-wrenches' 
> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> If you are talking about two 120VAC legs, then the split phase voltage is
> 240V, not 230V which is what you would see as a standard in Europe not here.
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *David Palumbo
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:48 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> It is a standard 60Hz 230Vac unit
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Kirpal 
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:45 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches 
> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] 230Vac load on OB FX2524T system
>
>
>
> Is the mini split European voltage where it is 230v line 1 to
> neutral..Outback makes inverters for that too 50 hz?
>
> Kirpal
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 11:06 PM David Palumbo 
> wrote:
>
> I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, but in all my years I have
> never had to power a 230V load with an OutBack system before.
>
> A couple of quick questions. It is a 8 year old OutBack system with two
> FX2524T’s presently powering two 120Vac legs with no 240Vac output.
>
>- Homeowner is adding a Fujitsu mini split heat pump for air
>conditioning the home (summers are getting hot enough for AC even in
>northern Vermont).
>- It uses 7.9 Amps @ 230Vac
>- I have a OB PSX-240 Autoformer manufactured in 2008 in my inventory
>here. Should I use it for this application?
>- Do I wire it up just like in this schematic?
>- If so, what do I change in the programing on the Mate?  Presently it
>is ADV/FX/STACK  stack 1-2ph Master. Do I simply change it to  ADV/FX/STACK
> stack Classic Slave?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Palumbo, Independent Power, Hyde Park, VT
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image003.jpg@01D54135.D30AA520]
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

No, we haven't done any zero export. I guess both the Powerwall and Enphase
systems would need to be independently programmed for zero export? I should
add a caveat - all of our IQ7 systems have been the SunPower branded
Equinox type, not Enphase. The main difference being that Enphase would use
their envoy box and SunPower uses the PV Supervisor 6.

August




On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:53 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Sounds encouraging, August. Mahalo.
>
> Are any of those systems zero export by any chance?
>
> marco
>
> On Thursday, July 25, 2019, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Hi Marco - We have dozens of systems with this combo, so far no problem.
>> Tesla's AC coupling mechanism in general seems to be very robust - we've
>> paired them with many inverter types and brands, and they always seem to
>> couple up during our grid-off tests. Since the vast majority of our systems
>> are grid tied, the real test will be how they will work over the long haul
>> if we have major grid outages - who knows if and when that might happen.
>> I've been in PG&E territory in the Bay Area for about 15 years and can only
>> recall one or two short (less than one hour) power outages.
>>
>>
>> August
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:58 AM Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha,
>>>
>>> I’m thinking about combining the Enphase IQ 7 micros with a Tesla
>>> Powerwall or two.
>>>
>>> Anyone out there try this?  With bueno or not so bueno results?
>>>
>>> Mahalo,
>>> marco
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] remote project in northeast India

[August Goers]

Hi Wrenches,

I've been contacted by the director of a school located in the remote
foothills of the Himalayas in northeast India near the Bhutan and Tibet
borders. If any of you are interested in pursuing an offgrid type system in
this remote area, please contact me off list and I'll connect you.

Best,

August

*August Goers*

Principal

Luminalt Energy Corporation

o: 415.792.

www.luminalt.com
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power wall

[August Goers]

Hi Jay - We are a Tesla Powerwall/Powerpack dealer. We buy equipment direct
from Tesla just like any normal vendor relationship and then sell a
complete turnkey installation for our customers. Our customers don't buy
equipment directly from Tesla. Tesla allows customers to place a deposit
for Powerwalls on their website, but then those clients get their
installation by Tesla direct. It may work differently in different markets
- we work in the SF Bay Area.

Tesla does not control our installed cost. They attempted to influence our
pricing a while but we didn't budge. Energy storage installation requires a
lot of tricky electrical work, so don't go too low on your pricing!

August
Luminalt


On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 9:21 PM Jay  wrote:

> A question for the power wall installers out there
>
> If I understand correctly, the customer buys the powerwall from Tesla
> directly and then pays you for the install?
>
> Does Tesla have any control or influence over the install cost?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[August Goers]

Jason - I'm curious about your statement on cutting off module connectors.
Can you elaborate?

Best,

August
Luminalt


On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:52 AM Jason Fisher (STC) 
wrote:

> Kent, I don’t see an answer to Brian’s question about the LG module’s
> original connector configuration. We’re these modules actually factory
> shipped with one H4 and one MC4 connector on different polarities? That
> would be bizarre.
>
> Otherwise to back up Brian’s point about Intermatability, this is a UL
> 6703 term that was added in NEC2020 to specifically address this question,
> how can installers have confidence when they are asked to connect two
> different manufacturer’s mating connectors. Bottom line is don’t connect
> “mismatched” connectors, ever. Only connect different manufacturers, and/or
> different models of mating connectors if at least one of the companies
> produces proof of evaluation of that combination by an NRTL. Warning that
> this is rare at this point (those wouldn’t therefore be “mismatched”).
>
> This is a very important issue so my advice to Wrenches is to keep firm
> and don’t budge on this one.
>
> Also curious if you all still think you can’t cut off module connectors?
> We need to correct that if so.
>
> Jason Fisher
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Jerry Shafer 
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:25 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
> Brian
> Missing the point, yes they are compatible but as we have seen in the real
> world there are issues. This can give module and micro inverter
> manufacturers an out regarding failures and responsibility
> Jerry
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 1:41 AM Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>
>> I don’t think “some white paper” is sufficient based on Code
>> requirements, UL standards (6703), and verified field failures. Also see
>> 2020 NEC® 690.33(C) - now requiring intermatability.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Jerry Shafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Wrenches
>> Per some white papers connectors are interchangeable, this being said l
>> have had arc issues as a result. FYI there are knock-offs out there to.
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:42 PM Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>>
>>> Are you saying each module has, for example, a positive factory H4 lead
>>> and a negative factory MC4 lead?
>>>
>>> I definitely know of H4 problems, both mated with H4s and mismatched.
>>>
>>> Brian Mehalic
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
>>> National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
>>> (520) 204-6639
>>>
>>> Solar Energy International
>>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>>
>>> SEI Professional Services
>>> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:22 PM Kent Osterberg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've recently been looking for the cause of random power drop offs to
 zero in an Enphase M215 system with LG260 PV module that was installed
 in 2013. Just one inverter in a system of fourteen has been doing this.
 Enphase suggested moving the inverter to a different PV module and sure
 enough doing that proved the problem wasn't with the inverter.
 Intermittent zero output was being caused by the PV module.  In making
 the inverter/module change I found that all the LG 260 modules in this
 system have one MC4 connector and one H4 connector. At present I'm
 convinced the mismatched connector is the actual cause of the problem.
 Anyone else ever notice find PV modules with mixed MC4 and H4
 connectors?

 Kent Osterberg
 Blue Mountain Solar
 ___
 List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

 Change listserver email address & settings:
 http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

 List-Archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

 List rules & etiquette:
 www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

 Check out or update participant bios:
 www.members.re-wrenches.org

 ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[August Goers]

eged
> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *August Goers
> *Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2019 6:34 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
>
>
> Jason - I'm curious about your statement on cutting off module connectors.
> Can you elaborate?
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
> Luminalt
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:52 AM Jason Fisher (STC) 
> wrote:
>
> Kent, I don’t see an answer to Brian’s question about the LG module’s
> original connector configuration. We’re these modules actually factory
> shipped with one H4 and one MC4 connector on different polarities? That
> would be bizarre.
>
>
>
> Otherwise to back up Brian’s point about Intermatability, this is a UL
> 6703 term that was added in NEC2020 to specifically address this question,
> how can installers have confidence when they are asked to connect two
> different manufacturer’s mating connectors. Bottom line is don’t connect
> “mismatched” connectors, ever. Only connect different manufacturers, and/or
> different models of mating connectors if at least one of the companies
> produces proof of evaluation of that combination by an NRTL. Warning that
> this is rare at this point (those wouldn’t therefore be “mismatched”).
>
>
>
> This is a very important issue so my advice to Wrenches is to keep firm
> and don’t budge on this one.
>
>
>
> Also curious if you all still think you can’t cut off module connectors?
> We need to correct that if so.
>
>
>
> Jason Fisher
> --
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Jerry Shafer 
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:25 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
>
>
>
> Brian
>
> Missing the point, yes they are compatible but as we have seen in the real
> world there are issues. This can give module and micro inverter
> manufacturers an out regarding failures and responsibility
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 1:41 AM Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>
> I don’t think “some white paper” is sufficient based on Code requirements,
> UL standards (6703), and verified field failures. Also see 2020 NEC®
> 690.33(C) - now requiring intermatability.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
>
> Wrenches
>
> Per some white papers connectors are interchangeable, this being said l
> have had arc issues as a result. FYI there are knock-offs out there to.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:42 PM Brian Mehalic  wrote:
>
> Are you saying each module has, for example, a positive factory H4 lead
> and a negative factory MC4 lead?
>
>
>
> I definitely know of H4 problems, both mated with H4s and mismatched.
>
>
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
>
> National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
>
> (520) 204-6639
>
>
>
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
>
>
> SEI Professional Services
>
> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:22 PM Kent Osterberg  wrote:
>
> I've recently been looking for the cause of random power drop offs to
> zero in an Enphase M215 system with LG260 PV module that was installed
> in 2013. Just one inverter in a system of fourteen has been doing this.
> Enphase suggested moving the inverter to a different PV module and sure
> enough doing that proved the problem wasn't with the inverter.
> Intermittent zero output was being caused by the PV module.  In making
> the inverter/module change I found that all the LG 260 modules in this
> system have one MC4 connector and one H4 connector. At present I'm
> convinced the mismatched connector is the actual cause of the problem.
> Anyone else ever notice find PV modules with mixed MC4 and H4 connectors?
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.or

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good Tablets for the Solar Installer

[August Goers]

We've experimented around with various devices, and I'll agree that the
Microsoft Surface line is a good choice. You can find 3rd party heavy duty
protective cases on Amazon that are worthwhile if you plan on using it in
the field. Also note that the current Surface Pro 6th gen product only has
one USB type A port so you'll likely need a few dongles to get your work
done. I also have a Surface Go and like it. It is small, light, has a USB C
port, and gets most of my work done BUT it is slow. Microsoft is holding a
product release event on October 2nd that will likely have new surface
products. I would wait for that if you want to either get the latest and
greatest or wait for the older generation to go on sale. Costco had a good
deal for a Surface Pro 6 with pen and keyboard not too long ago.

August
Luminalt




On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Kelly
> By the time you buy all the extras vs a basic laptop fewer items to carry
> and loose.
> I do programming in Hawaii and California and my Dell still can do e
> everything needed and a lot less money but that's just me "KISS"
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:02 PM James Rudolph 
> wrote:
>
>> We are transitioning from Dell laptops to Surface Pro's with cell
>> service.
>> The flexibility of these units in the field seems to be unrivaled.
>>
>>
>>
>> *James B. Rudolph*
>>
>> *Hawai'i Unified*
>>
>> *Director of  Energy*
>>
>> *ES Electrician # 10816*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*
>>
>> *808.594.9969*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:14 AM Kelly Larson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Esteemed wrenches,
>>>
>>> I am looking to buy a PC tablet/laptop for testing in the field.  I will
>>> be using a Solmetric PVA, Seaward 210 and Survey, excel spreadsheet,
>>> internet, and email.
>>>
>>> I also would like to be able to read and annotate pdfs.
>>>
>>> Suggestions?  What do you use?  What are the advantages and shortcomings
>>> of your device?
>>>
>>> Thank you for your response in advance!
>>>
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~
>>> Kelly Larson
>>> Electrical Engineer
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™
>>> IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV
>>> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189
>>> SolarKelly.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarReady Service Panel vs adding Supply Side connection?

[August Goers]

Replying on list, I had mistakenly only replied to Jeff off list. -August

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 6:26 AM August Goers  wrote:

> Hi Jeff - I think technically you can try a supply side connection per NEC
> 705.12(A) if you can find equipment with provisions to both feed your
> existing service and then the solar. Sometimes a splice box is required.
>
> Without knowing the configuration of the existing equipment, it's hard to
> understand if that will be easier overall compared to just going the route
> where you supply a 200 A rated meter socket (maybe you already have this?)
> and 200 A main breaker panel (with no loads) and then a 400 A bused panel
> to connect both your loads and the PV system.
>
> August
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:52 AM Jeff Clearwater <
> je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey August, Jay, and Burt and all,
>>
>> Thanks for the great input! and I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer.
>>
>> They are not asking for 400 Amps - I suggested it as that was the rating
>> of the solar ready panel I specified.
>>
>> They are just saying IF it's 400 Amps then they need room for CTs cause
>> it's a shop and hence residential equipment is not approved.
>>
>> So as August and Glenn indicate below - perhaps the easiest is a 200 AMP
>> meter can with a Supply side line.  That does throw it back to my AJH to
>> approve but that is pretty standardI would hope.  It also requires the
>> variance letter from PG&E.
>>
>> I'm running 5 SB7.7s at 32 Amps each - so 160 AMPS of solar input.
>>
>> So If I supply a 200 A meter can with supply side lugs that I can feed
>> into a 200 A fused disconnect and solar distribution panel and keep the
>> existing 200 Amp panel box fed by the 200 Amp main breaker - any reason
>> that won't work?
>>
>> OR does anyone know of a commercial 400 AMP solar ready meter base with 2
>> 200 Amp feeds - one for solar and one for loads that does allow room for
>> CTs?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> August Goers wrote on 10/17/19 4:35 PM:
>>
>> Hi Jeff -
>>
>> PG&E defines the service rating amperage based on the enclosure rating of
>> the first piece of equipment the service hits. See section 1.14 in the
>> Greenbook:
>>
>>
>> https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf
>>
>>
>> This might be why they insist that you need a 400 A service just because
>> you want a 400 A rated bus. The easy way around it is to supply a 200 A
>> rated meter socket and main disconnect, then feed a 400 A sub panel.
>>
>> A meter/main like the Eaton MBEB200BTS might also work for you:
>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-200-Amp-BR-Type-Main-Breaker-Meter-Breaker-without-Distribution-EUSERC-MBEB200BTS/100555147
>>
>>
>> August
>> Luminalt
>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems to me if allowed in your jurisdiction, you might be best served by
>> installing a new 200A fused service disconnect ahead of the existing main
>> service panel. Or even a 400A one to allow for additional work inside
>> (CT’s), then perform a supply side connection in it. Some manufacturers of
>> switchgear have an option for lugs that accept multiple conductors, so no
>> piercing of conductors needs to happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Glenn
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:19 PM Jeff Clearwater <
>> je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Esteemed Wrenches,
>>>
>>> I am in need of changing out an existing 200 Amp service entrance in
>>> order to accommodate a bus capable of handling a a 200 Amp Solar backfeed
>>> (41 KW system) .
>>>
>>> PG&E is upgrading the transformer to handle the backfeed but when I
>>> proposed a Siemens SolarReady 400 Amp service entrance they couldn't
>>> approve it cause since the building is a shop - they classify it as
>>> commercial and require a panel that can handle CTs when there is a 400 Amp
>>> service involved.
>>>
>>> Anyone else faced with this have solutions?  What is the cheapest
>>> equipment I can provide to satisfy all requirements?
>>>
>>> We don't need to upgrade the existing 200 amp service entrance equipment
>>> for load purposes - only to meet the bus requirements of backfeed.
>>>
>>> Would it be cheaper and easier to use the existing (or new) 200 Amp

Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 2020 not available as a portable PDF?

[August Goers]

I've heard from multiple sources and confirmed myself that you can't get
the portable pdf of the NEC starting with the 2020 edition. The link that
Lorenzo shared seems to indicate that older versions including 2017 edition
are available in a digital format.

[image: image.png]

August
Luminalt


On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 12:35 PM Christopher Warfel <
cwar...@entech-engineering.com> wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> I was told that the NEC 2020 will not be available as a file. You can
> only access on line, or via the book.  Has anyone confirmed this?  It
> seems pretty certain.   How many times is one out in the field and needs
> to reference the NEC?  Now to do so, you will need the book or a
> connection to the Internet.  I am having a hard time believing that NFPA
> would be this short-sighted.  Chris
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter Output Circuit OCPD Meltdown

[August Goers]

Hi Jason -

It certainly appears that there was some sort of surge or short. We've had
a few cases where microinverter branch circuit end termination caps were
left off or fell off and shorted out during rain storms. You might want to
double check that those are all in place. We've also had cases were
microinvers themselves developed internal shorts. This third comment is
only anecdotal - I've been in touch with a couple of other installers that
have had back-fed breaker issues specifically with Eaton brand breakers
burning up the bus stabs. Our company has had one unexplained issue where
the inverter output breaker bus stabs were burned up with Eaton breakers. I
have no idea whether the breakers were faulty or what, but thought I'd just
mention it in case there is a pattern.

Best, August
Luminalt


On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:10 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> (System installed by another contractor...)
>
> I have been tasked with assisting in the investigation of damage in a
> subpanel used to combine inverter output circuits (5 strings of
> microinverters). There appears to be no damage to conductors or other
> system components. It looks like the damage started at the stabs of the bus
> bar where the breakers connect. Picture attached. Here are a few clues:
>
>- Monitoring indicates that damage occurred overnight a few weeks ago.
>That night we had rain as a winter front came through Florida, possibly
>lightning. The prior day everything was fine.
>- The next morning, only 2 of 5 strings started producing power, but 4
>of 5 strings were reporting data to the Envoy. The two strings that were
>reporting but not producing power reported 0Vac and Voc on the DC side of
>the microinverters.
>- A couple of weeks later, 1 of the 2 strings that was producing power
>quit doing so, but continued reporting data.
>- Customer discovered damage yesterday.
>- About a week before the initial damage apparently manifested itself,
>another contractor installed a whole house generator transfer switch on the
>line side of the PV interconnection. The generator has never been run
>(there is not even a LP fuel source on site yet). I pointed out that the
>solar interconnection, which was previously on the supply side, would need
>to be moved to the supply side of the generator transfer switch's main
>breaker before operation. During the transfer switch installation, the
>contractor also switched line 1 and line 2, but that shouldn't
>really matter, except for Enphase consumption monitoring, which was messed
>up by the swapping of the lines.
>
> So I'm looking for ideas. I'm wondering if the OCPD would be a likely
> place for lightning damage to manifest itself. I can't visually detect any
> other damage anywhere else. I can't imagine that the transfer switch
> installation would have anything to do with it, but the timing is
> interesting. Other than replacing the subpanel and OCPD and firing it back
> up (no pun intended), I'm not sure how to approach further investigation.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter Output Circuit OCPD Meltdown

[August Goers]

Jason -

Thanks for sharing - this is a good lesson for all Wrenches. Years ago we
had a dual string inverter installation where the DC positives and
negatives were mixed between the two interters. String 1 positive went to
inverter 1, string 1 negative went to inverter 2 and vice versa. The
inverters tested out and ran for about two weeks and then one of them
literally caught on fire. Since then, we implemented a policy of checking
wiring coming from the roof down individually. In the case of microinverter
branch circuits, this means checking each branch circuit voltage on the
roof with the other breakers off one branch at a time.

Not to get too far off on a tangent, but as we're installing more and more
energy storage with lots of onsite wiring work, it is clear that fully
testing wiring is of utmost importance. We have a procedure for checking
voltage at each piece of equipment (such as a backup loads panel, etc)
prior to turning on branch breakers. We've run into a couple of
scenarios where hots and neutrals were mixed up causing 240 v to go to a
120 v circuit. Not good.

August

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 2:58 PM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I discovered the issue I believe, so I thought I'd update all of you who
> gave me ideas on what to look for (thank you).
>
> And this is something that I stress the importance of all the time...
>
> The branch circuit pairs were not properly paired up! All of the L1
> conductors went to L1 on the bus and all of the L2 to L2. However, for
> example, circuit 1 L1 and circuit 2 L2 were on a single 2-pole breaker. And
> circuit 2 L1 and circuit 1 L2 were on another breaker. Everything worked
> because it was electrically connected to the right bus bar. However, when
> there was a previous fault one of the breakers probably didn't trip when it
> should have as a result of the improper pairings. It was reset a few times
> and just kept heating up and heating up.
>
> This isn't conclusive, but it sure makes sense. It wasn't fun tracking
> this down with 5 strings and 5 junction boxes on the roof, but once we
> started continuity testing and finding strange results, it became clear.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:10 PM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> (System installed by another contractor...)
>>
>> I have been tasked with assisting in the investigation of damage in a
>> subpanel used to combine inverter output circuits (5 strings of
>> microinverters). There appears to be no damage to conductors or other
>> system components. It looks like the damage started at the stabs of the bus
>> bar where the breakers connect. Picture attached. Here are a few clues:
>>
>>- Monitoring indicates that damage occurred overnight a few weeks
>>ago. That night we had rain as a winter front came through Florida,
>>possibly lightning. The prior day everything was fine.
>>- The next morning, only 2 of 5 strings started producing power, but
>>4 of 5 strings were reporting data to the Envoy. The two strings that were
>>reporting but not producing power reported 0Vac and Voc on the DC side of
>>the microinverters.
>>- A couple of weeks later, 1 of the 2 strings that was producing
>>power quit doing so, but continued reporting data.
>>- Customer discovered damage yesterday.
>>- About a week before the initial damage apparently manifested
>>itself, another contractor installed a whole house generator transfer
>>switch on the line side of the PV interconnection. The generator has never
>>been run (there is not even a LP fuel source on site yet). I pointed out
>>that the solar interconnection, which was previously on the supply side,
>>would need to be moved to the supply side of the generator transfer
>>switch's main breaker before operation. During the transfer switch
>>installation, the contractor also switched line 1 and line 2, but that
>>shouldn't really matter, except for Enphase consumption monitoring, which
>>was messed up by the swapping of the lines.
>>
>> So I'm looking for ideas. I'm wondering if the OCPD would be a likely
>> place for lightning damage to manifest itself. I can't visually detect any
>> other damage anywhere else. I can't imagine that the transfer switch
>> installation would have anything to do with it, but the timing is
>> interesting. Other than replacing the subpanel and OCPD and firing it back
>> up (no pun intended), I'm not sure how to approach further investigation.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & e