Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Ray]

I'd 2nd using the Polaris and similar insulated block connectors.  Easy 
to make a good connection, easy to test voltage without disturbing the 
connection, easy to double check connection torque, and easy to 
reverse.  They are direct burial rated, although I've never actually 
felt that confident.


I've actually seen a couple of fires started with split bolts, so I feel 
those need to go the way of the dinosaurs.  That's probably a hundred 
year old connector, are very difficult to check after being taped, can't 
check voltage, and the sharp edges can short through the tape, if not 
really done well.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 4/26/21 11:16 PM, frenergy wrote:

Blake,

            Its great to get definitive clarification on this MC4/THHN 
issue, we've been using 4-14 Polaris connectors with good results.  
Being inside a Nema3 can and having silicone grease in the Polaris 
makes for a solid, durable connection.  Inspecting some of these that 
are now 17 years in the field shows very good condition for the wire 
landing in the Polaris and the condition of THWN-2 wire insulation.  
We haven't had the best of luck with Buchanans.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 4/26/2021 5:41 PM, Blake Gleason wrote:

Corey,

Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less 
confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to 
be solid vs stranded).


All -
What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 
inside a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an 
awesome electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily 
serviceable.  Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt 
reliable for that purpose. Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people 
using Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of 
crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only problem with 
using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression gland may not be as 
watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans certainly are not 
watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed, definitely 
aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so 
hard for me??


Best,
Blake
Thanks




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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[August Goers]

Hi Blake - Greetings from across the Bay! We've been using the
Buchanan/Ideal splice caps for approximately the last 5 years - they are
awesome. As you mention, there is a lot of grey area in exactly what is
appropriate in an outdoor box and rated for the various combos of wires we
use in solar. That said, the splice cap crimp is solid, easy to visually
inspect, and generally the most foolproof connection mechanism I've seen,
especially compared to wire nuts and MC4 connectors. We still use MC4
connectors in our J-boxes if we have a system rated over 600 volts, but in
that case we're not using THWN-2 anyway because we need wire with a higher
voltage rating. For larger wires or applications where we're combining more
wires, we're using the insulated multitap connectors such as those made by
Polaris.

August
Luminalt


On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:40 PM Blake Gleason 
wrote:

> Corey,
>
> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less
> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to be
> solid vs stranded).
>
> All -
> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 inside
> a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an awesome
> electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily serviceable.
> Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt reliable for that
> purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people using Buchanan splice
> caps, but I wonder about trading one set of crimping problems for another.
> And of course, the only problem with using THHN in an MC4 is that the
> compression gland may not be as watertight as it is with PVWire, and the
> Buchanans certainly are not watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't
> listed, definitely aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why
> is this so hard for me??
>
> Best,
> Blake
> Thanks
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:19 PM Corey Shalanski 
> wrote:
>
>> Blake,
>>
>> In addition to Bryan's notes, here is some unconfusing information
>> directly from Stäubli's engineering dept:
>>
>> The answer is categorically no: *you cannot use THHN wires with MC4
>>> connectors.*  There are several reasons for this:
>>> 1. *Certification*: our MC4 connectors are certified to UL6703,
>>> which only covers UL4703 PV wire or USE2 cable.  Any other wire type is not
>>> covered by our certification
>>> 2. *Internal validation*: we have no internal testing or validation
>>> of how MC4 or Evo2 connectors perform with THHN cables.  We therefore
>>> cannot warranty / accept the use of THHN cables with our PV connectors.
>>> The allowable cables and applications for our PV connectors is clearly
>>> stated in the assembly instructions.
>>> 3. *Construction*: THHN cables use very rigid PVC insulators, which
>>> behave very differently than XPLE or TPE insulators that are the most
>>> widely used on PV wires.  PVC has a very low elastic range and easily
>>> deforms permanently under load/thermal cycling.  It is not a well-suited
>>> cable for higher temperature or high temperature fluctuating applications
>>> where compression-type cable seals (i.e. cable glands) are used.  Also,
>>> THHN cables tend to be single-conductor solid core cables, which are
>>> absolutely not allowed with crimp terminations like the MC4 (or any other
>>> PV connector on the market for that matter).  They also are not allowed by
>>> UL6703.
>>
>>
>> These comments were forwarded to me by Jeff Wang, who works for Stäubli
>> North America.
>>
>> --
>> Corey Shalanski
>> Jah Light Solar
>> Portland, Jamaica
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 9:23 AM  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Bryan,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the "PVC" section you
>>> referenced.  Here's the complete text:
>>>
>>>   For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of PVC cables. Cables
 made from PVC can be connected to MC4-Evo 2 since the insulation material
 of the connector (Polyamide) is suitable to be connected to PVC. PVC cables
 usually have an upper limiting temperature of 70 °C, in fixed installations
 sometimes 80 °C.
>>>
>>>
>>> THHN/THWN-2 is made with PVC insulation, so I assume that it falls under
>>> the category of a "PVC cable."
>>>
>>> So, the first sentence seems to say that it's not allowed by Staubli.
>>> But then the second sentence seems to say that is IS allowed.  And then the
>>> third sentence doesn't seem to be contemplating the most common PVC wire
>>> type of all (in the US), which is THHN/THWN-2, which has a 90 degree
>>> rating?!
>>>
>>> Can you help un-confuse me?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> Blake
>>>
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[RE-wrenches] Mate 3s voltage off

[frenergy]

We're setting up charge points for a new pack of SimpliPhi 3.8 
batteries.  Needed to use the voltage  "offset" function in the FM80's a 
bit to jive with the 2, Fluke 87 meters we got testing the actual 
voltage at the battery bus bars.  However. the Mate3s is reading .6 
volts high and can't find an offset function in the Mate's menus.  
Anybody familiar with the path to get there, if its there?  Assuming the 
Mate uses the voltage readings its showing on the display, this could 
have a significant impact on battery health.  Do I need to calibrate 
both my Flukes?...or buy a new Fluke that's not 22 years old?


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3s voltage off

[Dan Fink]

Bill; The Mate 3s has calibration offset screens for both the inverter(s)
and charge controller(s).

Main menu -> Settings -> Inverter -> Calibrate (#13)
Main menu -> Settings -> Charge Controller -> Calibrate (#8)

Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342




On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 8:39 AM frenergy  wrote:

> We're setting up charge points for a new pack of SimpliPhi 3.8
> batteries.  Needed to use the voltage  "offset" function in the FM80's a
> bit to jive with the 2, Fluke 87 meters we got testing the actual
> voltage at the battery bus bars.  However. the Mate3s is reading .6
> volts high and can't find an offset function in the Mate's menus.
> Anybody familiar with the path to get there, if its there?  Assuming the
> Mate uses the voltage readings its showing on the display, this could
> have a significant impact on battery health.  Do I need to calibrate
> both my Flukes?...or buy a new Fluke that's not 22 years old?
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ___
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>
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> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3s voltage off

[Mac Lewis]

Do you have a flexnet DC? I believe that is the master voltage indicator
that's displayed on the mate. There is an adjustment potentiometer for that
in the flexnet. Search for flexnet DC calibration and you will see a
document from outback for that.

This can make a huge difference for accurate soc calcs for lithium.





On Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:00 AM Dan Fink  wrote:

> Bill; The Mate 3s has calibration offset screens for both the inverter(s)
> and charge controller(s).
>
> Main menu -> Settings -> Inverter -> Calibrate (#13)
> Main menu -> Settings -> Charge Controller -> Calibrate (#8)
>
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> d anbo...@gmail.com
> 970-672-4342
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 8:39 AM frenergy  wrote:
>
>> We're setting up charge points for a new pack of SimpliPhi 3.8
>> batteries.  Needed to use the voltage  "offset" function in the FM80's a
>> bit to jive with the 2, Fluke 87 meters we got testing the actual
>> voltage at the battery bus bars.  However. the Mate3s is reading .6
>> volts high and can't find an offset function in the Mate's menus.
>> Anybody familiar with the path to get there, if its there?  Assuming the
>> Mate uses the voltage readings its showing on the display, this could
>> have a significant impact on battery health.  Do I need to calibrate
>> both my Flukes?...or buy a new Fluke that's not 22 years old?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049
>> www.frenergy.net
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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>> other:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3s voltage off

[Chris Sparadeo]

https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/fndc_field_cal_app_note.pdf


On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 11:38 AM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Do you have a flexnet DC? I believe that is the master voltage indicator
> that's displayed on the mate. There is an adjustment potentiometer for that
> in the flexnet. Search for flexnet DC calibration and you will see a
> document from outback for that.
>
> This can make a huge difference for accurate soc calcs for lithium.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:00 AM Dan Fink  wrote:
>
>> Bill; The Mate 3s has calibration offset screens for both the inverter(s)
>> and charge controller(s).
>>
>> Main menu -> Settings -> Inverter -> Calibrate (#13)
>> Main menu -> Settings -> Charge Controller -> Calibrate (#8)
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
>> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
>> NABCEP PV Associate
>> d anbo...@gmail.com
>> 970-672-4342
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 8:39 AM frenergy  wrote:
>>
>>> We're setting up charge points for a new pack of SimpliPhi 3.8
>>> batteries.  Needed to use the voltage  "offset" function in the FM80's a
>>> bit to jive with the 2, Fluke 87 meters we got testing the actual
>>> voltage at the battery bus bars.  However. the Mate3s is reading .6
>>> volts high and can't find an offset function in the Mate's menus.
>>> Anybody familiar with the path to get there, if its there?  Assuming the
>>> Mate uses the voltage readings its showing on the display, this could
>>> have a significant impact on battery health.  Do I need to calibrate
>>> both my Flukes?...or buy a new Fluke that's not 22 years old?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Feather River Solar Electric
>>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>>> 4291 Nelson St.
>>> 
>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>>> 
>>> 530.284.7849
>>> CA Lic 874049
>>> www.frenergy.net
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
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>> other:
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>> ___
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Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
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Check out o

[RE-wrenches] My Kingdom for an ET Solar ET-P660230 230Wp module

[Paul Lyons]

Dear RE-Wrenches -

King Richard the Third had an otherwise good life because he did not have to 
track down a very specific PV module - just a new horse.

Do any of you know where I can find an ET Solar ET-P660230 230Wp module?

Thank you,

Paul



Paul Lyons, P.E.
Zapotec Energy Inc.
26 Glenwood Ave
Cambridge, MA 02139-4708
Tel: 617-547-5900
Fax: 617-547-5901
Mobile: 617-285-0634
Email: ly...@zapotecenergy.com
Web: www.ZapotecEnergy.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Jason Szumlanski]

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Wago 221-6XX series connectors,
specifically for THWN to Enphase IQ/DG/TC conductor transitions or just
THWN splices.

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 8:40 PM Blake Gleason 
wrote:

> Corey,
>
> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less
> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to be
> solid vs stranded).
>
> All -
> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 inside
> a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an awesome
> electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily serviceable.
> Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt reliable for that
> purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people using Buchanan splice
> caps, but I wonder about trading one set of crimping problems for another.
> And of course, the only problem with using THHN in an MC4 is that the
> compression gland may not be as watertight as it is with PVWire, and the
> Buchanans certainly are not watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't
> listed, definitely aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why
> is this so hard for me??
>
> Best,
> Blake
> Thanks
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:19 PM Corey Shalanski 
> wrote:
>
>> Blake,
>>
>> In addition to Bryan's notes, here is some unconfusing information
>> directly from Stäubli's engineering dept:
>>
>> The answer is categorically no: *you cannot use THHN wires with MC4
>>> connectors.*  There are several reasons for this:
>>> 1. *Certification*: our MC4 connectors are certified to UL6703,
>>> which only covers UL4703 PV wire or USE2 cable.  Any other wire type is not
>>> covered by our certification
>>> 2. *Internal validation*: we have no internal testing or validation
>>> of how MC4 or Evo2 connectors perform with THHN cables.  We therefore
>>> cannot warranty / accept the use of THHN cables with our PV connectors.
>>> The allowable cables and applications for our PV connectors is clearly
>>> stated in the assembly instructions.
>>> 3. *Construction*: THHN cables use very rigid PVC insulators, which
>>> behave very differently than XPLE or TPE insulators that are the most
>>> widely used on PV wires.  PVC has a very low elastic range and easily
>>> deforms permanently under load/thermal cycling.  It is not a well-suited
>>> cable for higher temperature or high temperature fluctuating applications
>>> where compression-type cable seals (i.e. cable glands) are used.  Also,
>>> THHN cables tend to be single-conductor solid core cables, which are
>>> absolutely not allowed with crimp terminations like the MC4 (or any other
>>> PV connector on the market for that matter).  They also are not allowed by
>>> UL6703.
>>
>>
>> These comments were forwarded to me by Jeff Wang, who works for Stäubli
>> North America.
>>
>> --
>> Corey Shalanski
>> Jah Light Solar
>> Portland, Jamaica
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 9:23 AM  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Bryan,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the "PVC" section you
>>> referenced.  Here's the complete text:
>>>
>>>   For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of PVC cables. Cables
 made from PVC can be connected to MC4-Evo 2 since the insulation material
 of the connector (Polyamide) is suitable to be connected to PVC. PVC cables
 usually have an upper limiting temperature of 70 °C, in fixed installations
 sometimes 80 °C.
>>>
>>>
>>> THHN/THWN-2 is made with PVC insulation, so I assume that it falls under
>>> the category of a "PVC cable."
>>>
>>> So, the first sentence seems to say that it's not allowed by Staubli.
>>> But then the second sentence seems to say that is IS allowed.  And then the
>>> third sentence doesn't seem to be contemplating the most common PVC wire
>>> type of all (in the US), which is THHN/THWN-2, which has a 90 degree
>>> rating?!
>>>
>>> Can you help un-confuse me?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> Blake
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[William Miller]

Friends:



The information from the manufacturer seems entirely untrustworthy for
these reasons:



1.   The representative is mis-informed about the prevalence of stranding
of THHN.

2.   It is my understanding the all THHN on the market is now THWN so this
designation should be used (I am ready to be corrected on this point as my
information is anecdotal).

3.   The representative focuses on the sealing of the gland portion of the
cable on the THWN insulation which ignores the existence of bulkhead mount
MC connectors (I think the nomenclature in the manufacturer’s brochure is
“receptacle”).  If you are using a bulkhead connector the gland does not
exist and any discussion of said gland is therefore irrelevant.



When I observe the conductor in a 10 AWG building wire and the conductor in
a 10 AWG PV wire I detect absolutely no difference.  I firmly believe that
you can wire-nut PV wire to building wire in a weatherproof junction box.
Gland connectors (by Heyco and others) are readily available so one can run
PV wire in a box, strip and connect.  Keep in mind weatherproof boxes are
hard to hermetically seal so a weep hole in a low point keeps them from
filling with rain water or condensate.  Weep holes are specifically allowed
in the NEC.



I detect no difference when observing an MC pin crimped on both PV wire or
THWN.  See this link

for an example of how we recommend transitioning from PV cable to building
wire.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Blake Gleason
*Sent:* Monday, April 26, 2021 5:41 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?



Corey,



Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less
confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to be
solid vs stranded).



All -

What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 inside a
junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an awesome electrical
connection, but are time-consuming and not easily serviceable.  Wire nuts
(the right ones) are Listed, but never felt reliable for that purpose.
Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people using Buchanan splice caps, but
I wonder about trading one set of crimping problems for another.  And of
course, the only problem with using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression
gland may not be as watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans
certainly are not watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed,
definitely aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this
so hard for me??



Best,

Blake

Thanks



On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:19 PM Corey Shalanski  wrote:

Blake,



In addition to Bryan's notes, here is some unconfusing information directly
from Stäubli's engineering dept:



The answer is categorically no: *you cannot use THHN wires with MC4
connectors.*  There are several reasons for this:
1. *Certification*: our MC4 connectors are certified to UL6703, which
only covers UL4703 PV wire or USE2 cable.  Any other wire type is not
covered by our certification
2. *Internal validation*: we have no internal testing or validation of
how MC4 or Evo2 connectors perform with THHN cables.  We therefore cannot
warranty / accept the use of THHN cables with our PV connectors.  The
allowable cables and applications for our PV connectors is clearly stated
in the assembly instructions.
3. *Construction*: THHN cables use very rigid PVC insulators, which
behave very differently than XPLE or TPE insulators that are the most
widely used on PV wires.  PVC has a very low elastic range and easily
deforms permanently under load/thermal cycling.  It is not a well-suited
cable for higher temperature or high temperature fluctuating applications
where compression-type cable seals (i.e. cable glands) are used.  Also,
THHN cables tend to be single-conductor solid core cables, which are
absolutely not allowed with crimp terminations like the MC4 (or any other
PV connector on the market for that matter).  They also are not allowed by
UL6703.



These comments were forwarded to me by Jeff Wang, who works for Stäubli
North America.



--

Corey Shalanski

Jah Light Solar

Portland, Jamaica





On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 9:23 AM  wrote:



Bryan,



Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the "PVC" section you
referenced.  Here's the complete text:



  For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of PVC cables. Cables made
from PVC can be connected to MC4-Evo 2 since the insulation material of the
connector (Polyamide) is suitable to be connected to PVC. PVC cables
usually have an upper limiting temperature of 70 °C, in fixed installations
sometimes 80 °C.



THHN/THWN-2 is made with PVC insulation, so I assume that it falls under
the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[drake . chamberlin]

On a practical note, MC-4 functions fine with THHN inside a weather 
proof enclosure. It will not seal, due to the smaller overall diameter 
of the cable.


THHN is rated for 90C. It is not sunlight resistant, and should never be 
used exposed.


---


On 2021-04-26 23:16, frenergy wrote:

Blake,

            Its great to get definitive clarification on this MC4/THHN
issue, we've been using 4-14 Polaris connectors with good results. 
Being inside a Nema3 can and having silicone grease in the Polaris
makes for a solid, durable connection.  Inspecting some of these that
are now 17 years in the field shows very good condition for the wire
landing in the Polaris and the condition of THWN-2 wire insulation. 
We haven't had the best of luck with Buchanans.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 4/26/2021 5:41 PM, Blake Gleason wrote:

Corey,

Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less 
confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to 
be solid vs stranded).


All -
What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 
inside a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an 
awesome electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily 
serviceable.  Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt 
reliable for that purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people 
using Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of 
crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only problem with 
using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression gland may not be as 
watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans certainly are not 
watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed, definitely 
aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so 
hard for me??


Best,
Blake
Thanks



--
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Glenn Burt]

However if it is not listed as compatible with it, why use it?-GlennSent from 
my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.-- Original 
message--From: drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.orgDate: Tue, Apr 27, 2021 
1:42 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, 
right?On a practical note, MC-4 functions fine with THHN inside a weather 
proof enclosure. It will not seal, due to the smaller overall diameter 
of the cable.

THHN is rated for 90C. It is not sunlight resistant, and should never be 
used exposed.

---


On 2021-04-26 23:16, frenergy wrote:
> Blake,
> 
>             Its great to get definitive clarification on this MC4/THHN
> issue, we've been using 4-14 Polaris connectors with good results. 
> Being inside a Nema3 can and having silicone grease in the Polaris
> makes for a solid, durable connection.  Inspecting some of these that
> are now 17 years in the field shows very good condition for the wire
> landing in the Polaris
 and the condition of THWN-2 wire insulation. 
> We haven't had the best of luck with Buchanans.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
> On 4/26/2021 5:41 PM, Blake Gleason wrote:
>> Corey,
>> 
>> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less 
>> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to 
>> be solid vs stranded).
>> 
>> All -
>> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 
>> inside a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an 
>> awesome electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily 
>> serviceable.  Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt 
>> reliable for that purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people 
>> using Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of 
>> crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only
 problem with 
>> using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression gland may not be as 
>> watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans certainly are not 
>> watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed, definitely 
>> aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so 
>> hard for me??
>> 
>> Best,
>> Blake
>> Thanks
>> 
> 
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Bryan Norkunas]

Surprised to read no one mentioning the Wiley Pass Thru boxes.

That is what I used on my house, though I had a cranky inspector and wanted to 
avoid any conflicts.

Yes, they are expensive, but they are UL and easy.

 

Bryan Norkunas

.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Glenn Burt
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 11:01 AM
To: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

However if it is not listed as compatible with it, why use it?

 

-Glenn

Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

 

-- Original message--

From: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org

Date: Tue, Apr 27, 2021 1:42 PM

To: RE-wrenches;

Cc: 

Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

On a practical note, MC-4 functions fine with THHN inside a weather 
proof enclosure. It will not seal, due to
 the smaller overall diameter 
of the cable.
 
THHN is rated for 90C. It is not sunlight resistant, and should never be 
used exposed.
 
---
 
 
On 2021-04-26 23  :16, frenergy wrote:
> Blake,
> 
> Its great to get definitive clarification on this MC4/THHN
> issue, we've been using 4-14 Polaris connectors with good results. 
> Being inside a Nema3 can and having silicone grease in the Polaris
> makes for a solid, durable connection.  Inspecting some of these that
> are now 17 years in the field shows very good condition for the wire
> landing in the Polaris and the condition of THWN-2 wire insulation. 
> We haven't had the best of luck with Buchanans.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
> On 4/26/2021 5:41 PM, Blake Gleason wrote:
>> Corey,
>> 
>> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less 
>> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to 
>> be solid vs stranded).
>> 
>> All -
>> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 
>> inside a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an 
>> awesome electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily 
>> serviceable.  Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt 
>> reliable for that purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people 
>> using Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of 
>> crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only problem with 
>> using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression gland may not
 be as 
>> watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans certainly are not 
>> watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed, definitely 
>> aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so 
>> hard for me??
>> 
>> Best,
>> Blake
>> Thanks
>> 
> 
> --
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[August Goers]

Hi Jason - I noticed that Tesla is using the Wago connectors in their
Powerwalls. They only go up to #10, but they certainly appear to have some
advantages such as easy QC inspection, compactness, and price. We are in
the process of trying a batch of these out, but I hadn't considered using
them in exterior J-boxes.

https://www.wago.com/global/electrical-interconnections/discover-installation-terminal-blocks-and-connectors/221

August


On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:42 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Wago 221-6XX series connectors,
> specifically for THWN to Enphase IQ/DG/TC conductor transitions or just
> THWN splices.
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 8:40 PM Blake Gleason 
> wrote:
>
>> Corey,
>>
>> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less
>> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to be
>> solid vs stranded).
>>
>> All -
>> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 inside
>> a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an awesome
>> electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily serviceable.
>> Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt reliable for that
>> purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people using Buchanan splice
>> caps, but I wonder about trading one set of crimping problems for another.
>> And of course, the only problem with using THHN in an MC4 is that the
>> compression gland may not be as watertight as it is with PVWire, and the
>> Buchanans certainly are not watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't
>> listed, definitely aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why
>> is this so hard for me??
>>
>> Best,
>> Blake
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:19 PM Corey Shalanski 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Blake,
>>>
>>> In addition to Bryan's notes, here is some unconfusing information
>>> directly from Stäubli's engineering dept:
>>>
>>> The answer is categorically no: *you cannot use THHN wires with MC4
 connectors.*  There are several reasons for this:
 1. *Certification*: our MC4 connectors are certified to UL6703,
 which only covers UL4703 PV wire or USE2 cable.  Any other wire type is not
 covered by our certification
 2. *Internal validation*: we have no internal testing or
 validation of how MC4 or Evo2 connectors perform with THHN cables.  We
 therefore cannot warranty / accept the use of THHN cables with our PV
 connectors.  The allowable cables and applications for our PV connectors is
 clearly stated in the assembly instructions.
 3. *Construction*: THHN cables use very rigid PVC insulators,
 which behave very differently than XPLE or TPE insulators that are the most
 widely used on PV wires.  PVC has a very low elastic range and easily
 deforms permanently under load/thermal cycling.  It is not a well-suited
 cable for higher temperature or high temperature fluctuating applications
 where compression-type cable seals (i.e. cable glands) are used.  Also,
 THHN cables tend to be single-conductor solid core cables, which are
 absolutely not allowed with crimp terminations like the MC4 (or any other
 PV connector on the market for that matter).  They also are not allowed by
 UL6703.
>>>
>>>
>>> These comments were forwarded to me by Jeff Wang, who works for Stäubli
>>> North America.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Corey Shalanski
>>> Jah Light Solar
>>> Portland, Jamaica
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 9:23 AM  wrote:
>>>

 Bryan,

 Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the "PVC" section you
 referenced.  Here's the complete text:

   For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of PVC cables. Cables
> made from PVC can be connected to MC4-Evo 2 since the insulation material
> of the connector (Polyamide) is suitable to be connected to PVC. PVC 
> cables
> usually have an upper limiting temperature of 70 °C, in fixed 
> installations
> sometimes 80 °C.


 THHN/THWN-2 is made with PVC insulation, so I assume that it falls
 under the category of a "PVC cable."

 So, the first sentence seems to say that it's not allowed by Staubli.
 But then the second sentence seems to say that is IS allowed.  And then the
 third sentence doesn't seem to be contemplating the most common PVC wire
 type of all (in the US), which is THHN/THWN-2, which has a 90 degree
 rating?!

 Can you help un-confuse me?

 Thank you!
 Blake

>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn'

Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Sindelar Solar]

August,

Thank you for this suggestion. I went to the site, and under "Two Sizes 
for All Conductor Types" on that page it appears that there's a model 
that'll work with 2-10AWG conductors:


   "With the 6 mm2 (10 AWG) variant, you can connect all conductor
   types – with cross sections from 0.5 to 6 mm2 (2−10 AWG)".

This would contradict what you wrote below, so I'm just checking whether 
I missed something.


Thanks, Allan

On 4/27/2021 12:55 PM, August Goers wrote:
Hi Jason - I noticed that Tesla is using the Wago connectors in their 
Powerwalls. They only go up to #10, but they certainly appear to have 
some advantages such as easy QC inspection, compactness, and price. We 
are in the process of trying a batch of these out, but I hadn't 
considered using them in exterior J-boxes.
https://www.wago.com/global/electrical-interconnections/discover-installation-terminal-blocks-and-connectors/221 


August

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:42 AM Jason Szumlanski 
> wrote:


I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Wago 221-6XX series
connectors, specifically for THWN to Enphase IQ/DG/TC conductor
transitions or just THWN splices.

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 8:40 PM Blake Gleason
mailto:bl...@sunlightandpower.com>>
wrote:

Corey,
Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is
much less confusing (with the exception of the statement about
THHN tending to be solid vs stranded).
All -
What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to
THHN/THWN-2 inside a junction box?  We used to use split
bolts, which make an awesome electrical connection, but are
time-consuming and not easily serviceable.  Wire nuts (the
right ones) are Listed, but never felt reliable for that
purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people using
Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of
crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only
problem with using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression
gland may not be as watertight as it is with PVWire, and the
Buchanans certainly are not watertight.  Terminal blocks
generally aren't listed, definitely aren't watertight, and
raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so hard for me??
Best,
Blake
Thanks

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:19 PM Corey Shalanski
mailto:coreso...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Blake,
In addition to Bryan's notes, here is some unconfusing
information directly from Stäubli's engineering dept:

The answer is categorically no: *you cannot use
THHN wires with MC4 connectors.*  There are
several reasons for this:
1. _Certification_: our MC4 connectors are
certified to UL6703, which only covers UL4703 PV
wire or USE2 cable. Any other wire type is not
covered by our certification
2. _Internal validation_: we have no internal
testing or validation of how MC4 or Evo2
connectors perform with THHN cables.  We therefore
cannot warranty / accept the use of THHN cables
with our PV connectors.  The allowable cables and
applications for our PV connectors is clearly
stated in the assembly instructions.
3. _Construction_: THHN cables use very rigid PVC
insulators, which behave very differently than
XPLE or TPE insulators that are the most widely
used on PV wires.  PVC has a very low elastic
range and easily deforms permanently under
load/thermal cycling.  It is not a well-suited
cable for higher temperature or high temperature
fluctuating applications where compression-type
cable seals (i.e. cable glands) are used.  Also,
THHN cables tend to be single-conductor solid core
cables, which are absolutely not allowed with
crimp terminations like the MC4 (or any other PV
connector on the market for that matter). They
also are not allowed by UL6703.

These comments were forwarded to me by Jeff Wang, who
works for Stäubli North America.
--
Corey Shalanski
Jah Light Solar
Portland, Jamaica

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 9:23 AM
mailto:bl...@sunlightandpower.com>> wrote:


Bryan,
Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the

[RE-wrenches] Schneider XW shutting down at the same time every night

[Laura Conchelos]

I have two Schneider XW 6848s in an off-grid system. I've had some issues I
think we've gotten figured out in relation to the configuration of the
inverters as master/slave.

Now it seems the inverters shut down for ten seconds or so in the evening
at 7:59. It doesn't seem to have done it last night. Though every other
night since I reconfigured them it's done this. The reconfiguring might be
a red herring, who knows.

Anyone else run into something like this?

Laura
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW shutting down at the same time every night

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Laura,

Yes, we encountered something similar but not the same.  It was a single
XW+5548.  It would, very briefly, lose power occasionally, nothing at a
specific time, but consistently, a few times per week.  I fixed it by
reinstalling the latest firmware.  Its been fine for about a year now so it
must have had a bit of corrupted code.

Good luck!

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 8:43 PM Laura Conchelos 
wrote:

> I have two Schneider XW 6848s in an off-grid system. I've had some issues
> I think we've gotten figured out in relation to the configuration of the
> inverters as master/slave.
>
> Now it seems the inverters shut down for ten seconds or so in the evening
> at 7:59. It doesn't seem to have done it last night. Though every other
> night since I reconfigured them it's done this. The reconfiguring might be
> a red herring, who knows.
>
> Anyone else run into something like this?
>
> Laura
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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