[RBW] Re: In praise of gloves
Glad you are okay.did a similar thing a year ago wiped out on ice at about 1.3 mph. My shoulder has never been the same. Was wearing wool full fingered gloves and broke my fall judo style. I almost always wear leather finger less gloves in warmer weather. I also play the mandolin and am a jeweler by trade and can't afford my hands to be mangled. At 53 I don't heal so fast and the thought of a real crash is starting to concern me. On Saturday, August 4, 2012 6:45:54 PM UTC-7, EricP wrote: > > This morning, instead of going over the old-time jam I usually attend, > decided to head down to Jim Thill's shop for the Saturday morning ride. > Was a nice, relaxing ride with a great breakfast stop at Seward Cafe in > Minneapolis. What was left of the group decided to do some exploring. > Rode over to the Prospect Park water tower (aka witch hat tower) in > Minneapolis, MN. Everything was fine, and I even found a shortcut to avoid > a busy stretch of road. Just as we get to the tower, I start riding on a > path with a couple friends. Well, my SimpleOne decides to drift right off > the path, I correct and next thing you know, wham! Down on the ground. > Left knee really skinned. Hands stunned and left side hurting. Yeah, was > dumb and put the left hand out just like you're not supposed to do. > Luckily no collarbone break. Hands still hurting 10 hours later, but the > Rivendell summer gloves did their job. Prevented serious road rash. So I > should be able to attend the music festival later next week and play guitar > for hours and hours backing up fiddles and banjos. > > What was really bad is this took place at about 6 mph. Definitely feeling > old and dumb tonight. > > Except for a slightly shifted brake lever, the SimpleOne had no issues. > In fact, got me back to the shop where the ride started without any > complaint. It's a lot tougher than I am. > > Eric Platt > St. Paul, MN > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Mz_bjd51MxsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I'm slight-of-build like Jan Heine, and am sure he knows what he is talking about when that light springy tubing feels great when riding, but I also know I could dent a 7/4/7 tube by looking at it wrong, heat-treated or not. It's a trade-off between the fleeting bliss of floating up hills on your superlight steel bike and the cold reality of racking it among 20 other bicycles or riding it on ice. Any bike of mine gets commuting/grocery duty, even if i have multiple bikes. Luckily, I'm a bit taller than Mr. Heine, so a bike with heavier OS tubing in my size has some flex and I find them to ride nicely, especially for the long haul. Bikes should be tough and durable. I also think bikes are best when they are as non-integrated as possible, contrary to Jan Heine, but in agreement with Riv's philosophy. To me, having a single custom-made rack for your bike or integrated lighting is not as good as having a wide array of well-made adjustable racks with standard mounting provisions to choose from (tubus, nitto, or custom if you like), or the ability to ride your bike with lights or without, fenders on or off, single-speeded or with a touring triple etc. It's liberating. Bicycle companies such as Surly, Soma, or smaller companies like Rawland and of course Rivendell provide well-made platforms on which to hang whatever parts suit your needs. There is an advantage to that.Jan Heine likes to make comparisons to the integrated design of the modern automobile, and seems to think that the integrated fenders and lights of the modern sedan should be an obvious carry-over to the modern bicycle. However, what that misses is that bicycles are nothing like automobiles. Bicycles are open, while modern automobiles are black, disposable boxes. Anybody with some basic tools and basic experience can setup/tune/adjust a bicycle, and most of these adjustments take only a few minutes. The non-integrated, open, parts-agnostic nature of a well-designed bicycle frame is part of what gives it its agility, versatility and usefulness. On Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:46:12 PM UTC-4, Michael_S wrote: > > As much as I enjoy the technical content of BQ I often struggle with Jan's > "strong negative opinions" with most bikes/parts that are competition for > his products or what he rides. > He also suggests that we all would be happier on thin tubed standard > diameter frames, not offering the ideas that we are all not slight of build > like he is. Any of us who are larger in size but as fit will get the same > effect on larger/thicker tubes that are more proportionate to our size. > > ~mike > Carlsbad Ca > > On Sunday, August 5, 2012 12:29:18 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/riding-fast-is-fun/ >> >> I personally -- to quote one commentator -- would rather stab myself >> in the eye than ride 600 km, but this little essay has some good >> points about the joy of riding fast, but on intelligent bikes. Several >> RBW references in the correspondence, too. >> -- >> "When in Rome, do as they done in Milledgeville." >> >> Flannery O'Connor >> >> - >> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA >> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW >> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html >> - >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/y8FsUHUfXAgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] 64cm Sam on eBay
This auction ends today, reserve is $2000.00, so somebody get it, :)! Otherwise, we may just ride off into the sunset together Thanks to all who've looked. Sent from my iPad -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 01:56 -0700, Matt Beebe wrote: > Bicycles are open, while modern automobiles are black, disposable > boxes. How long do most riders keep the same bicycle? Looking at folks I know in the bike clubs I belong to, I get the feeling people keep their cars longer than their bicycles. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Should one grease between stem and handlebar?
try teflon tape On Monday, July 23, 2012 2:44:06 AM UTC-4, Donald Lee wrote: > > I installed a CroMo Albatross bar to my Nitto stem, but did not use grease > where the stem clamps to the handlebar. Thinking about it, I'm not sure > what is the best practice. What do you folks recommend? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ilT5R9opKFMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 20:46 -0700, Michael_S wrote: > As much as I enjoy the technical content of BQ I often struggle with > Jan's "strong negative opinions" with most bikes/parts that are > competition for his products or what he rides. If you are insinuating Jan disses products because they compete with things Compass sells, I would have to strongly disagree. He doesn't like things because Compass sells them; Compass sells things because he likes them, and often because there is no other source or similar product. > > He also suggests that we all would be happier on thin tubed standard > diameter frames, not offering the ideas that we are all not slight of > build like he is. Any of us who are larger in size but as fit will get > the same effect on larger/thicker tubes that are more proportionate > to our size. Not necessarily. At 200 lb, I am a LOT heavier than Jan, and anything but "slight of build". I've owned two OS-diameter Rivendells that I have sold and replaced with standard-diameter frames of the same tubing gauge, primarily because they were too stiff for me. The tubing is 1 size thicker than what Jan prefers; I believe the performance for me is similar, if not identical, to what Jan experiences. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 20:32 -0700, Anne Paulson wrote: > Replying to my own post: > > I was just reading the Bicycle Quarterly blog, noting that they say > that Paselas (which I was using) are fast-rolling tires, whereas > Schwalbes are both slow and harsh-riding. So maybe that's the > explanation of my riding companions' complaints. They were using > Schwalbes. Not all Schwalbes are the same. Echoing Patrick, the Kojak is a lively, fast-feeling tire (at least, in the 32-369 size I use). Schwalbe also sells super-heavy duty touring tires that could probably go around the world without wearing out and that likely would stop all small arms projectiles short of the Browning .50 cal.; I would not expect those tires to feel lively or fast. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Apologies if you don't like them....
Upon clicking the link, the first thing that popped in my head was USMC "silkies" (running shorts) which was part of the PT uniform way back in my ROTC days. Although skimpy, they were comfortable and my oh my, those undies look comfortable - and mossy wins! On Aug 3, 1:51 pm, William wrote: > One day a few months back I went into RBW HQ. I can't remember exactly > what I was getting. I think it was just a couple small things. Grant was > over on his computer. A conversation started: > > Grant: "Bill, if we were getting more wool underwear" > Me(interupting): "You mean like Devold?" > Grant: "Who said anything about Devold? If I meant Devold I'd say Devold" > Me: "Sorry. I'll try to stay focused" > Grant: "Good. OK, back to wool underwear, kind of boxerish. If we only > want to sell them in one color, should they be black, grey, or mossy?" > Me: "Um, I think mossy" > Grant: "Check! One less thing to worry about, now YOU have to worry about > it" > > So, if you hate the mossy color on the Riv wool boxers, it is all my fault, > apparently. > > http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/au4.htm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Growing Closer With Family + Understanding Exposure
My little brother has been generally immobile for the past month and a half due to dislocating his ankle from his foot ... SO, to get him moving on his crutches yesterday, I took him to the park with a few cameras and a Peterson book -- Understanding Exposure. We spent 4 hours (wow, getting either of us to sit for 4 hours to focus on anything is a BIG DEAL!) going through the book and learning. This was his first time playing with a SLR camera so there was the happiness reward for learning the ISO / Aperture / Shutter Speed triangle. He learned to shoot in manual and create his own images, so cool. He's excited about it and wants to continue. I'm happy because this helps our bond grow and we've found new stuff we can be passionate about together, cool ! :) I took the Bombadil, got some cool Erik Jensen (bikenoir.blogspot.com) inspired photo captures. Couldn't feel more perfect on the Bomba. Did some grown-over single track riding in the thick woods. Light, quick, super agile, carved when i wanted it to, well behaved, cut through the thick underbrush and over gravel. Was it the bike, maybe the tires, perhaps the bars, maybe it was me (ha, unlikely)? It was all together perfect. Pics to prove it happened: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/sets/72157630923220134/ Also -- I'm an American Sikh. Amit -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/2Mj2ei0FWL4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Shimano CX70s
Are they $129 good? :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/NkI_WLRroWAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I commend Jan for following his passion and making a very welcome business out of it. I'd urge every interested person to read his blog and his paper publication and carefully consider what he and his contributors have written. But after that, take what has been written with a grain of salt. I promise that every one of Jan's opinions is perfectly true - for Jan, for today. Some others may share aspects of Jan's body type, riding style, personality, or general preferences, and some chords may ring true. But for others, there's no need to wear Jan's clothes if they don't fit. I'm thinking of commuters and recreational riders who ride 6000+ miles per year on, say, a tire that Jan didn't review favorably or on a bike that doesn't have Jan's optimal steering geometry (i.e. most bikes). I'm thinking of people who ride relatively slowly for an hour or two most days taking pictures, but would never think PBP, or even a 200k, sounds like a good time. Jan is a sort of like a famous wine connoisseur. If he says Wine X is good but Wine Y is swill, and you try both and find your preferences are the exact opposite, then his opinion is worthless to you, and you shouldn't lose sleep worrying that you're not tasting your wines correctly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/O4bZhZMQThIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I keep the good ones forever. Still have my Dave Porter custom and that's over 20 years old. I'm keeping my Riv Custom until I wear out. The Riv is so good I've fantasized having a duplicate made as a backup. -JimD On Aug 6, 2012, at 4:53 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 01:56 -0700, Matt Beebe wrote: >> Bicycles are open, while modern automobiles are black, disposable >> boxes. > > How long do most riders keep the same bicycle? Looking at folks I know > in the bike clubs I belong to, I get the feeling people keep their cars > longer than their bicycles. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 07:41 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > > Jan is a sort of like a famous wine connoisseur. If he says Wine X is > good but Wine Y is swill, and you try both and find your preferences > are the exact opposite, then his opinion is worthless to you, and you > shouldn't lose sleep worrying that you're not tasting your wines > correctly. > I can't say much about wine critics, but a film critic whose preferences are exactly opposite to yours can provide some of the best film reviews. If I know reliably if he loves it I will hate it and if he hates it I will love it, I can go to the films he hates with great confidence I will have a wonderful time. > I'm thinking of commuters and recreational riders who ride 6000+ miles > per year on, say, a tire that Jan didn't review favorably or on a bike > that doesn't have Jan's optimal steering geometry (i.e. most bikes). > I'm thinking of people who ride relatively slowly for an hour or two > most days taking pictures, but would never think PBP, or even a 200k, > sounds like a good time. There is a trade-off with tires. The features that make a tire flat-resistant also make it slow, and the features that contribute to a tire being fast often result in a rapid wearing, vulnerable tire. If you ride slowly taking pictures and would rather get a root canal than a flat tire, the last thing you want is a fast, supple, rapid wearing expensive tire with no puncture resistance. > But for others, there's no need to wear Jan's clothes if they don't > fit. Certainly not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Well said Jim. I think BQ is an excellent publication, particularly the accounts of rides/events. I enjoy the product reviews-sometimes. But the rest? Sometimes I don't know. He seems to have gotten away from the "everything not made by the classic French builders-which by the way you probably never get your hands on-is somehow/way inferior" thing, but the various tests of tire rolling resistance, etc., are akin to a high school science project while others have the appearance of being self-serving whether they are or not. For example, there was a recent custom build for a 6'4" rider. He was put on a 59cm w/ 171mm cranks? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there, of course they would! Lastly, a bike with a big square box-shaped bag is more aero than a non-bag equipped bike? Maybe if Cadel evans had installed one in the Tour, he would've narrowed the gap in that crucial time trial. Again, a great publication that I look fwd to each and every month. RGZ On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > I commend Jan for following his passion and making a very welcome business > out of it. I'd urge every interested person to read his blog and his paper > publication and carefully consider what he and his contributors have written. > > But after that, take what has been written with a grain of salt. I promise > that every one of Jan's opinions is perfectly true - for Jan, for today. Some > others may share aspects of Jan's body type, riding style, personality, or > general preferences, and some chords may ring true. But for others, there's > no need to wear Jan's clothes if they don't fit. > > I'm thinking of commuters and recreational riders who ride 6000+ miles per > year on, say, a tire that Jan didn't review favorably or on a bike that > doesn't have Jan's optimal steering geometry (i.e. most bikes). I'm thinking > of people who ride relatively slowly for an hour or two most days taking > pictures, but would never think PBP, or even a 200k, sounds like a good time. > > Jan is a sort of like a famous wine connoisseur. If he says Wine X is good > but Wine Y is swill, and you try both and find your preferences are the exact > opposite, then his opinion is worthless to you, and you shouldn't lose sleep > worrying that you're not tasting your wines correctly. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/O4bZhZMQThIJ. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:51 -0400, robert zeidler wrote: > Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as > skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? > For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe > that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task > to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new > frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there, > of course they would! > This sounds like yet another iteration of the old "if wide tires were better than 700x23 clinchers the racers would use them." However, it turns out, those 700x23 clinchers you've been seeing the racers use are nothing of the sort: they are tubulars disguised to make them look like clinchers. (And it's well known, due to their construction and the shape of the rims for them, tubulars of a given size ride like clinchers that are several mm wider.) Do you see anybody actively marketing sew-ups to the recreational make-believe-they-are-racers community? Of course not. They simply perpetuate the lie that those narrow clinchers are what the racers are using. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I linked the tubing spec for the AHH to the comments section. I am curious if anyone reads it and what the ensuing discussion might be. I appreciate what Jan does for cycling and agree with quite a bit of what he says conceptually. As with any of the "bike personalites" I read what they think, try thier ideas, keep what I like and forget what I don't like. There is no right answer. Diffferent bikes for different likes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/1aFGc6brgwgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Biking incident on Seattle BGT...
As a commuter, I'd like to think I'm pretty good about being safe, riding defensively, especially when it comes to using MUPs (multi-use paths), which brings me to an incident my wife and I had yesterday on the Burke-Gilman Trail just north of 70th Ave NE (or is it NE 70th?) in Seattle. The last days here have been pretty nice, although very hot, the trail tends to get very busy with cyclists, pedestrians, pedestrians with dogs, pedestrians with perambulators, and so forth. All good stuff; there's no denying that because one way or another, as individuals, we all use the trail system in a variety of those roles. But not everyone understands that this is a MUP, and that common sense dictates that everyone needs to look out for one another, especially when the trail gets congested along the way. Imagine taking a leisurely ride on your local MUP on a very nice weekend morning. The trail has its busy sections here and there. Cyclists and pedestrians are moving along pleasantly enough; lots of "on your left" and passing around people two, three abreast, cooperating with the riders. You're going along at a casual 9 to 10 mph. No biggy; safe enough. Everyone's enjoying their day on the tree-lined trail with a nice little breeze. You notice that there's a threesome of pedestrians abreast of each other, chatting, about 50 feet or so ahead of you. There are other cyclists "on your lefting" as they pass. The trail is getting a little congested, and your preparing to slow down as you approach the pedestrians to pass. "On your left," the pedestrian don't heed your warning and at the same time some rider goes zipping by you without any warning as you're making your move, oblivious of the situation, causing you to slam on your brakes in order to not run into the people in front of you, and causes you to jar your shoulder, and hit you pubic bone against the bike stem and cut your leg on the chain ring as you try to stabilize your bike without taking a full-on fall. And, your spouse who is riding behind you, swerves to the left across the trail and into the ditch that runs alongside it so that he/she doesn't rear-end you. Not a pretty scene. So here's the rant. These MUPs aren't high-speed highways for cyclists. I'm pretty sure there's a 15 mph speed limit on the BGT. Although, I really believe that most of the cyclist that use these trails are pretty sensitive to how they're used, they're a number of people who ride that have no clue, and do not know how to anticipate a situation before it happens, especially when the trail gets congested as traffic moves along. Riding a bicycle really isn't much different than driving a car when it comes to riding defensively. Yes, pedestrians, on and off the trail, have the right-of-way! And if we could all predict the future before it happens, wouldn't life be box of chocolates. It's not that way, especially in a traffic situation. We're not perfect, that's a given. But what happened to common sense, courtesy, and respect. Anyway, I landed safely in the ditch, nothing serious happened to me or my Atlantis, except for a little gouge I took in the calf from a pedal spike. The rider would've kept on riding if it weren't for my wife yelling at the rider to come back. Thankfully the rider did come back to listen to my wife's lecture, and then mine, as a few other riders sped by without a "on your left." It's too bad that the rider who caused this mess is most like not going to find this post. It would be good for her to see the grapefruit-sized hematoma on her upper inner thigh, and the cuts and bruises on her leg. Steve DeMont Seattle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ajEfWz1grbMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I'm in agreement with Jim Thill and Robert Zeidler on this. There's
been an interesting thread going on the Classics Rendezvous Google
Group ("Doing things the old fashioned way... -
http://groups.google.com/group/classic-rendezvous-lightweight-vintage-bicycles/browse_thread/thread/a0388964638f7ad3/4571c40974ec8067)
with some very active participation by some who have been builders and
designers of bikes since the 1970's (Jim Merz, Richard Sachs). I
would characterize those posts as bicycle design progress did not
"freeze" either with the classic Campy NR/SR racing bike era or the
French Constructeur touring bike.
I find some of the various modern Constructeur bikes, built with
French components from the 1960-1970's (e.g. Mafac brakes, Simplex
derailleurs, T.A. or Rene Herse modern manufacture cranks), to be a
little strange. Richard Sachs once characterized the modern
infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point of
touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. He
also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing group
of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that evoke
the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - they're
riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. I think this was a valid
observation.
Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ
On Aug 6, 8:51 am, robert zeidler wrote:
> Well said Jim.
>
> I think BQ is an excellent publication, particularly the accounts of
> rides/events.
>
> I enjoy the product reviews-sometimes. But the rest? Sometimes I don't know.
>
> He seems to have gotten away from the "everything not made by the
> classic French builders-which by the way you probably never get your
> hands on-is somehow/way inferior" thing, but the various tests of tire
> rolling resistance, etc., are akin to a high school science project
> while others have the appearance of being self-serving whether they
> are or not.
>
> For example, there was a recent custom build for a 6'4" rider. He was
> put on a 59cm w/ 171mm cranks? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
>
> Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as
> skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt?
> For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe
> that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task
> to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new
> frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there,
> of course they would!
>
> Lastly, a bike with a big square box-shaped bag is more aero than a
> non-bag equipped bike? Maybe if Cadel evans had installed one in the
> Tour, he would've narrowed the gap in that crucial time trial.
>
> Again, a great publication that I look fwd to each and every month.
>
> RGZ
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> wrote:
> > I commend Jan for following his passion and making a very welcome business
> > out of it. I'd urge every interested person to read his blog and his paper
> > publication and carefully consider what he and his contributors have
> > written.
>
> > But after that, take what has been written with a grain of salt. I promise
> > that every one of Jan's opinions is perfectly true - for Jan, for today.
> > Some others may share aspects of Jan's body type, riding style,
> > personality, or general preferences, and some chords may ring true. But for
> > others, there's no need to wear Jan's clothes if they don't fit.
>
> > I'm thinking of commuters and recreational riders who ride 6000+ miles per
> > year on, say, a tire that Jan didn't review favorably or on a bike that
> > doesn't have Jan's optimal steering geometry (i.e. most bikes). I'm
> > thinking of people who ride relatively slowly for an hour or two most days
> > taking pictures, but would never think PBP, or even a 200k, sounds like a
> > good time.
>
> > Jan is a sort of like a famous wine connoisseur. If he says Wine X is good
> > but Wine Y is swill, and you try both and find your preferences are the
> > exact opposite, then his opinion is worthless to you, and you shouldn't
> > lose sleep worrying that you're not tasting your wines correctly.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web
> > visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/O4bZhZMQThIJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:00 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote: > Richard Sachs once characterized the modern > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point of > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. Yes, that's very amusing, but one should also notice that as one of the best known builders of steel racing bikes, which have not been seen in the pro peloton for many years now, and which will certainly never be seen there again, he himself could be described as engaging in or fostering Civil War Re-enactment. > He also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing > group of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that > evoke the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - > they're riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
And Richard also failed to note the race bike riding PBP speedsters also skirt the rules. Many have support staff at the various rest stops with food, water bottle changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike for people who actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. Everything you need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. As for tires, Jan did not say large tires are faster. Rather he said on most road conditions well made tires wider than the average race clinchers have lower rolling resistance. And in fact, the width of race tires is increasing. Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen for what it is, but he does not think it would be the best choice of bikes to go out riding with a group of people with thin tube lbikes optimized for going fast. I doubt GP would argue the point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Cv5Z8_g0rd8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
And Richard also failed to note the race bike riding PBP speedsters also skirt the rules. Many have support staff at the various rest stops with food, water bottle changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike for people who actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. Everything you need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. As for tires, Jan did not say large tires are faster. Rather he said on most road conditions well made tires wider than the average race clinchers have lower rolling resistance. And in fact, the width of race tires is increasing. Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen for what it is, but he does not think it would be the best choice of bikes to go out riding with a group of people with thin tube lbikes optimized for going fast. I doubt GP would argue the point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/DC6gyuYwvq0J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
And Richard also failed to note the race bike riding PBP speedsters also skirt the rules. Many have support staff at the various rest stops with food, water bottle changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike for people who actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. Everything you need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. As for tires, Jan did not say large tires are faster. Rather he said on most road conditions well made tires wider than the average race clinchers have lower rolling resistance. And in fact, the width of race tires is increasing. Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen for what it is, but he does not think it would be the best choice of bikes to go out riding with a group of people with thin tube lbikes optimized for going fast. I doubt GP would argue the point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/jyT37FhNlhoJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I would hardly expect Richard Sachs to completely abandon his method of frame construction at this point in his career and begin making carbon fiber frames. The current demand for his bikes far exceeds his capacity (he has a seven-year backlog) and he no longer builds any frames except for previous customers of his frames. His bikes are still, in addition, quite competitive in cyclocross. He also builds bikes that are "Thoroughly Modern Millies" in terms of their equipment specifications, he isn't scouring the shelves looking for classic NOS Campy components from the NR/SR era. He has stated that every bike he produces in 2012 is a product of modern techniques and equipment, he does not build the bikes with the same exact methods and materials that he used 30 years ago. > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. I would also imagine that Sachs is aware that the P-B-P isn't a race for many who ride in the event. I still think it's a race for those who finish with the best times. Don't you? Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Aug 6, 11:09 am, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:00 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote: > > Richard Sachs once characterized the modern > > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point of > > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. > > Yes, that's very amusing, but one should also notice that as one of the > best known builders of steel racing bikes, which have not been seen in > the pro peloton for many years now, and which will certainly never be > seen there again, he himself could be described as engaging in or > fostering Civil War Re-enactment. > > > He also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing > > group of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that > > evoke the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - > > they're riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. > > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
Ann, of course there is the possibility that you are drawn into friendship with very sensitive people! It may also be bike set up and design - too much weight on the arms or too much on the touche. Bikes w/out much fork rake will be less happy on dirt roads, and despite claims and evidence to the contrary I find Al frames less forgiving. Dirt road riding requires a lighter touch, e.g. downhill calls for lifting the touche a bit and just holding the outside of the bars lightly enough for control. This will minimize the vibration that goes from the bike to the rider. if you don't do that you will be less happy. But, as has been pointed out there is a widespread bias against dirt and gravel roads. Here in VT. all the recommended routes avoid them even though they provide some of the most beautiful and enjoyable routes in the state. I live in a town with only one paved road so I do ride the dirt a lot. As for tires, at 195 lbs, I'm OK on dirt roads with Grand Bois Cerfs and regularly ride and enjoy the dirt roads on Jack Browns. I trade up to Avocet 38 mm for badly paved roads. Even on the loaded tandem with 400+ lbs marathon racers at 1.6 are just fine on gravel roads. I'm remembering a vacation two years ago at a B&B in rural Quebec. We headed out on the gravel roads for a 45 mile loop on the Marathon racers, while another couple loaded their tandem onto the car top to go search for paved roads. To each is own. Michael Westford, Vt, where it's not blistering hot today On Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:32:43 PM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: > > Replying to my own post: > > I was just reading the Bicycle Quarterly blog, noting that they say > that Paselas (which I was using) are fast-rolling tires, whereas > Schwalbes are both slow and harsh-riding. So maybe that's the > explanation of my riding companions' complaints. They were using > Schwalbes. > > On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Anne Paulson > wrote: > > I just last week got back from a 2500 mile tour, Mexico to Canada via > > the Sierra and the Cascades. Once again, as often happens, my riding > > companions sometimes complained that about rough roads. And once > > again, in the main I didn't notice the roads being rough, although the > > dirt detours that I took a time or two and my companions didn't were > > pretty bumpy in places. > > > > I'm at a loss to understand what I'm missing. This was a loaded tour. > > I was riding my Atlantis with 26 x 1.5 Panaracer Paselas, which should > > be comfortable tires, by my companions were riding fine touring bikes > > (Surly LHT, Co-Motion Americano, other touring bikes) with reasonable > > touring tires (mostly Schwalbe Marathons, one guy had Vittoria > > Randonneurs I think). Why are these fragile flowers noticing bad roads > > when I don't? What are they doing wrong, that they're riding touring > > bikes and complaining about chipseal? > > > > When I ride at home on unloaded bikes, my friends sometimes complain > > about bad roads when I don't, but I chalk that up to their insistence > > in riding 25 mm tires pumped up to 120 pounds while I'm happy on my > > Roadeo with 28 mm tires. > > > > -- > > -- Anne Paulson > > > > My hovercraft is full of eels > > > > -- > -- Anne Paulson > > My hovercraft is full of eels > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/6ZRtdgD1tlQJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] I've got a project bike. Do you want to do the conversion, or should I?
I've gotten a hold of an early 80s Stumpjumper Sport that appears to be practically unridden. Deer head derailleurs, specialized cranks and hubs. Lugged at the headtube and lugged unicrown fork. Super long chainstays. I think it will make a great substitute for an Atlantis or Bombadil type of touring bike. I'm thinking the Compass 26" tires, or maybe Big Apples, with fenders, and drop bars. This came from the Harding Elementary School Dad's Club. I could do a conversion and then try to sell it, but first I wanted to float it here to see if anyone in the Bay Area was thinking of doing something like this and wanted to have the fun for themselves. Let me know if you think you'd like the shot at this. I'm thinking that $400 made out to Harding Elementary School would be enough to keep me from building a bombproof touring bike out of this. Let me know if you want a crack at it. Here's the photo set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/sets/72157630935094690/ I am especially interested in getting out of doing this conversion because I always get emotionally attached to these projects and want to keep them. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/yDAD6hZY3ywJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Sorry about multiple posts above. IPad Google Groups compatability issues. >I still think it's a race for those who finish with the best times. Don't you? I think if they thought of it as a race they would follow the rules. On Monday, August 6, 2012 1:50:01 PM UTC-5, Jim Cloud wrote: > I would hardly expect Richard Sachs to completely abandon his method > of frame construction at this point in his career and begin making > carbon fiber frames. The current demand for his bikes far exceeds his > capacity (he has a seven-year backlog) and he no longer builds any > frames except for previous customers of his frames. His bikes are > still, in addition, quite competitive in cyclocross. > > He also builds bikes that are "Thoroughly Modern Millies" in terms of > their equipment specifications, he isn't scouring the shelves looking > for classic NOS Campy components from the NR/SR era. He has stated > that every bike he produces in 2012 is a product of modern techniques > and equipment, he does not build the bikes with the same exact methods > and materials that he used 30 years ago. > > > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. > > I would also imagine that Sachs is aware that the P-B-P isn't a race > for many who ride in the event. I still think it's a race for those > who finish with the best times. Don't you? > > Jim Cloud > Tucson, AZ > > > On Aug 6, 11:09 am, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:00 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote: > > > Richard Sachs once characterized the modern > > > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point of > > > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. > > > > Yes, that's very amusing, but one should also notice that as one of the > > best known builders of steel racing bikes, which have not been seen in > > the pro peloton for many years now, and which will certainly never be > > seen there again, he himself could be described as engaging in or > > fostering Civil War Re-enactment. > > > > > He also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing > > > group of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that > > > evoke the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - > > > they're riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. > > > > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/_0NPRAgoJBMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I don't want to take this thread much more OT than it already is. There are a few things that I wanted to chime in on: I found Rivendell and the BOB philosophy by accident - experimenting with my own bike fit and style. In a sense I pre-screened many of the Rivendell ideals - find a bike that does this or fits this way - rather than find out about fit and utility from Rivendell. I mention this because I like the angle of Jan Heine's work that deals with riding style/ preference evolution. I don't ride in brevets or long events so much of the BQ work doesn't apply directly to me. That said, I do read BQ and take what I can from it - along with ideas from Riv, Dave Moulton, etc. As other people have said there are certain things about Jan's delivery that don't sit well with me. At times he can come across as dismissive and over simplifying things. The cranks for example: It seems to me that his decision to create a net forged replica of the famous Rene Herse crank in the traditional 171mm size is defended by claiming that longer cranks are not needed because it is only a 2% difference (or so, don't have the quote in front of me but i think we have all read it). I think it could be true that once set up well a bicycle with 171mm cranks could perform as well and as comfortably for the same rider as another bike with 175mm cranks - given that many other factors and components establish fit. However, I have not seen him explain it this way. I have seen him dismiss the size difference. I have also been taken aback by his comments on crank fitting: Grease the spindle, install the crank, tighten it up after a few miles then leave it alone... This set-it-up-then-leave-it-alone model of bicycling does not relate to me at all. I don't have the privilege to own several bikes that can be set up and left alone and I like to tinker. I am constantly changing/adjusting/altering and swapping parts to get better/ different rides from my bicycles. Perhaps that is another Riv philosophy thing more than a BQ ideal. His approach just bugged be because it was so foreign to my experience but I don't mean to say it was wrong. Backing up a bit it is too bad that he has to defend the crank size/design at all. Running a small wholesale/retail business is not a simple task and creating a boutique product like those cranks is a financial gamble. I am glad that he has done so much. The happy accident that became the Hetre is another example. They are my favorite tires and it all came about in such and interesting way. Bottom line: I would like to see Jan, etc. at BQ do more to relate the context specific to their opinions/findings about bicycles. JL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] FS:Phil,Carradice Super C rear Panniers,Smartwool, Topeak frame pump,Silver shifter pods
I have sold most of what was listed last month,this is what is left plus a few extras added. All include shipping. 1-pair of New Carradice Super C rear panniers in black canvas w. cloth patch. Hardware mounted to check fit but have never left the house. $155.00 Phil Wood JIS 111 BB Spins fine with a tad bit of roughness. $60.00 Shimano Exage sport aero brake levers white hoods and removal rubber tabs on levers, for that retro look. Nice levers, good functional condition, just cleaned the hoods $21.00 Topeak 4954 MasterBlaster frame pump silver and grey finish,fits frames 49-54cm. Excellent condition $21.00 Silver bar end shifter pods mounts pair. They have residual amber shellac at ends,should clean off easily. $23.00 Shimano Exage 500CX rear derailer long cage. quality vintage MTB cage. $20.00 Smartwool short sleeve t shirt 100% merino wool made in USA Greenish/Grey main color w. blue stripe accent across chest size medium. $22.00 Very well tailored 100% wool knickers hand made from a tailor in london. These fit me perfectly. Size 30-32 waist. I would say the color is a army military dress green wool from WWII. Velcro fastners at knee area, one rear button pocket,two front pockets. For a comparison as to how they fit take a look at Jitensha studios knickers,not the same color but overall fit and quality of workmanship is similar. $75.00 Email me for pics Thanks for looking have a good day. Hobie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/my1HbfKoLyIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
> It seems to me that his decision to create a net forged replica of the famous Rene Herse crank in the traditional 171mm size is > defended by claiming that longer cranks are not needed because it is only a 2% difference (or so, don't have the quote in front of me > but i think we have all read it). Gross oversimplification. Jan explained quite clearly his is a small operation. To make the Rene Herse to the best of standards he believes in he had a mold created to forge the cranks. Making molds is very expensive. Jan opted to have them made in what he believes is the most optimal size. If you want cranks in other sizes, there are many companies out thee. Expecting a one person operation - and one with a very tight focus - to match the offerings of the bigs is unfair. Look no further than the limits GP has to set with his Rivendell business- a business intended for a much wider market. On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:20:39 PM UTC-5, JL wrote: > I don't want to take this thread much more OT than it already is. There > are a few things that I wanted to chime in on: > It seems to me that his decision to create a net forged replica of the > famous Rene Herse crank in the traditional 171mm size is defended by > claiming that longer cranks are not needed because it is only a 2% > difference (or so, don't have the quote in front of me but i think we have > all read it). > I found Rivendell and the BOB philosophy by accident - experimenting with > my own bike fit and style. In a sense I pre-screened many of the Rivendell > ideals - find a bike that does this or fits this way - rather than find > out about fit and utility from Rivendell. I mention this The cranks for > example: I think it could be true that once set up well a bicycle with > 171mm cranks could perform as well and as comfortably for the same rider as > another bike with 175mm cranks - given that many other factors and > components establish fit.because I like the angle of Jan Heine's work that > deals with riding style/ preference evolution. I don't ride in brevets or > long events so much of the BQ work doesn't apply directly to me. That > said, I do read BQ and take what I can from it - along with ideas from Riv, > Dave Moulton, etc. As other people have said there are certain things > about Jan's delivery that don't sit well with me. At times he can come > across as dismissive and over simplifying things.However, I have not > seen him explain it this way. I have seen him dismiss the size difference. > I have also been taken aback by his comments on crank fitting: Grease the > spindle, install the crank, tighten it up after a few miles then leave it > alone... This set-it-up-then-leave-it-alone model of bicycling does not > relate to me at all. I don't have the privilege to own several bikes that > can be set up and left alone and I like to tinker. I am constantly > changing/adjusting/altering and swapping parts to get better/ different > rides from my bicycles. Perhaps that is another Riv philosophy thing more > than a BQ ideal. His approach just bugged be because it was so foreign to > my experience but I don't mean to say it was wrong. Backing up a bit it > is too bad that he has to defend the crank size/design at all. Running a > small wholesale/retail business is not a simple task and creating a > boutique product like those cranks is a financial gamble. I am glad that > he has done so much. The happy accident that became the Hetre is another > example. They are my favorite tires and it all came about in such and > interesting way. > > Bottom line: I would like to see Jan, etc. at BQ do more to relate the > context specific to their opinions/findings about bicycles. > > JL > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/wXAk0oplQcAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:44:22 PM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: > > Many have support staff at the various rest stops with food, water bottle > changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike for people who > actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. Everything you > need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. last i checked, bag drops and "support" at controls are within the rules . . . in fact, it's the norm, at least on the longer brevets I've done. even on the shorter brevets, people rely on cashiers at convenience stores (these often serve as controls) to buy food, supplies, etc., or have people meet them there with anything that might be needed. the faster riders want to be in and out of controls as quickly as possible - it saves a significant amount of time. and when your racing ... . errr, i mean randonneuring those precious minutes count. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/THF77_MW7_QJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
if they are breaking the rules then aren't they disqualified? Or listed as DNF? Or are they cheating in a way that isn't seen an only a few or is it an allegation that all top finishers are cheaters? Just curious I have no idea... just doesn't sound right. Kelly On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:14:48 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: > > Sorry about multiple posts above. IPad Google Groups compatability issues. > > >I still think it's a race for those who finish with the best times. > Don't you? > > I think if they thought of it as a race they would follow the rules. > > > On Monday, August 6, 2012 1:50:01 PM UTC-5, Jim Cloud wrote: > >> I would hardly expect Richard Sachs to completely abandon his method >> of frame construction at this point in his career and begin making >> carbon fiber frames. The current demand for his bikes far exceeds his >> capacity (he has a seven-year backlog) and he no longer builds any >> frames except for previous customers of his frames. His bikes are >> still, in addition, quite competitive in cyclocross. >> >> He also builds bikes that are "Thoroughly Modern Millies" in terms of >> their equipment specifications, he isn't scouring the shelves looking >> for classic NOS Campy components from the NR/SR era. He has stated >> that every bike he produces in 2012 is a product of modern techniques >> and equipment, he does not build the bikes with the same exact methods >> and materials that he used 30 years ago. >> >> > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. >> >> I would also imagine that Sachs is aware that the P-B-P isn't a race >> for many who ride in the event. I still think it's a race for those >> who finish with the best times. Don't you? >> >> Jim Cloud >> Tucson, AZ >> >> >> On Aug 6, 11:09 am, Steve Palincsar wrote: >> > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:00 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote: >> > > Richard Sachs once characterized the modern >> > > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point >> of >> > > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. >> > >> > Yes, that's very amusing, but one should also notice that as one of the >> > best known builders of steel racing bikes, which have not been seen in >> > the pro peloton for many years now, and which will certainly never be >> > seen there again, he himself could be described as engaging in or >> > fostering Civil War Re-enactment. >> > >> > > He also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing >> > > group of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that >> > > evoke the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - >> > > they're riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. >> > >> > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/5h4Oq12ZAiAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I meant to defend the 171mm crank design/sizing and only mention that I was want for a more clear explanation of why the size could still work given to those people who had commented in the past "I ride 175mm cranks these wont work for my other bike", rather than a defense of the manufacturing/design aspects Perhaps I wasn't clear. JL On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Matthew J wrote: > > It seems to me that his decision to create a net forged replica of the > famous Rene Herse crank in the traditional 171mm size is > > defended by claiming that longer cranks are not needed because it is > only a 2% difference (or so, don't have the quote in front of me > > but i think we have all read it). > > Gross oversimplification. > > Jan explained quite clearly his is a small operation. To make the Rene > Herse to the best of standards he believes in he had a mold created to > forge the cranks. Making molds is very expensive. Jan opted to have them > made in what he believes is the most optimal size. If you want cranks in > other sizes, there are many companies out thee. Expecting a one person > operation - and one with a very tight focus - to match the offerings of the > bigs is unfair. Look no further than the limits GP has to set with his > Rivendell business- a business intended for a much wider market. > > On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:20:39 PM UTC-5, JL wrote: > >> I don't want to take this thread much more OT than it already is. There >> are a few things that I wanted to chime in on: >> It seems to me that his decision to create a net forged replica of the >> famous Rene Herse crank in the traditional 171mm size is defended by >> claiming that longer cranks are not needed because it is only a 2% >> difference (or so, don't have the quote in front of me but i think we have >> all read it). >> I found Rivendell and the BOB philosophy by accident - experimenting with >> my own bike fit and style. In a sense I pre-screened many of the Rivendell >> ideals - find a bike that does this or fits this way - rather than find >> out about fit and utility from Rivendell. I mention this The cranks for >> example: I think it could be true that once set up well a bicycle with >> 171mm cranks could perform as well and as comfortably for the same rider as >> another bike with 175mm cranks - given that many other factors and >> components establish fit.because I like the angle of Jan Heine's work that >> deals with riding style/ preference evolution. I don't ride in brevets or >> long events so much of the BQ work doesn't apply directly to me. That >> said, I do read BQ and take what I can from it - along with ideas from Riv, >> Dave Moulton, etc. As other people have said there are certain things >> about Jan's delivery that don't sit well with me. At times he can come >> across as dismissive and over simplifying things.However, I have not >> seen him explain it this way. I have seen him dismiss the size difference. >> I have also been taken aback by his comments on crank fitting: Grease the >> spindle, install the crank, tighten it up after a few miles then leave it >> alone... This set-it-up-then-leave-it-alone model of bicycling does not >> relate to me at all. I don't have the privilege to own several bikes that >> can be set up and left alone and I like to tinker. I am constantly >> changing/adjusting/altering and swapping parts to get better/ different >> rides from my bicycles. Perhaps that is another Riv philosophy thing more >> than a BQ ideal. His approach just bugged be because it was so foreign to >> my experience but I don't mean to say it was wrong. Backing up a bit it >> is too bad that he has to defend the crank size/design at all. Running a >> small wholesale/retail business is not a simple task and creating a >> boutique product like those cranks is a financial gamble. I am glad that >> he has done so much. The happy accident that became the Hetre is another >> example. They are my favorite tires and it all came about in such and >> interesting way. >> >> Bottom line: I would like to see Jan, etc. at BQ do more to relate the >> context specific to their opinions/findings about bicycles. >> >> JL >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/wXAk0oplQcAJ. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this
[RBW] Re: splits in nifty swiftys. safe or not?
Thanks to all of you for the info and advice. Retailer is taking it back and ordering another. They cannot decide if safe or not so they are erring on the safe side. Very nice of them. If the next one turns up the same, I will return that and maybe get some over-the-top-bombproof Schwalbe Marathon Green Guards. Though I like the look of the Nifty treads and narrower width of the Niftys. For now, I'll just sit on my Rumpkins. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/MEUMPxVP2XgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] School me on the virtues of keeping my Nitto seatpost over...
...a seatpost that has the pump built in, so no need to strap on a pump on the frame and that means less clutter on the bike, which I like. http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/postpump-seatpost I just feel wierd taking off the Nitto. I just like Nitto stuff. It's nice. Maybe I am wierd to even waste time thinking about this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/8Dpo8V2aR8cJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
Same story, different bike shop. The clerk was going over what was included in the assembly fee and mentioned that they had inflated the tires to 70 psi - was that okay? The best I could manage was, "I can always let some air out." Tony On Sunday, August 5, 2012 2:05:57 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote: > > I agree with everyone about air pressure. I shipped my bike tomA > Alaska and when I went to get the bike they had inflated my 700z50's to 60 > psi. > Because that was max inflation listed on the side. I notice most everyone > on the tour riding gravel was riding almost mad pressure and weren't > comfortable reducing that pressure. > > Kelly > > > On Sunday, August 5, 2012 2:57:01 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: > > I just last week got back from a 2500 mile tour, Mexico to Canada via > > > > the Sierra and the Cascades. Once again, as often happens, my riding > > > > companions sometimes complained that about rough roads. And once > > > > again, in the main I didn't notice the roads being rough, although the > > > > dirt detours that I took a time or two and my companions didn't were > > > > pretty bumpy in places. > > > > > > > > I'm at a loss to understand what I'm missing. This was a loaded tour. > > > > I was riding my Atlantis with 26 x 1.5 Panaracer Paselas, which should > > > > be comfortable tires, by my companions were riding fine touring bikes > > > > (Surly LHT, Co-Motion Americano, other touring bikes) with reasonable > > > > touring tires (mostly Schwalbe Marathons, one guy had Vittoria > > > > Randonneurs I think). Why are these fragile flowers noticing bad roads > > > > when I don't? What are they doing wrong, that they're riding touring > > > > bikes and complaining about chipseal? > > > > > > > > When I ride at home on unloaded bikes, my friends sometimes complain > > > > about bad roads when I don't, but I chalk that up to their insistence > > > > in riding 25 mm tires pumped up to 120 pounds while I'm happy on my > > > > Roadeo with 28 mm tires. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- Anne Paulson > > > > > > > > My hovercraft is full of eels > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/2bwCOR2QwFIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] FS: Nitto bullmoose bars from riv 150mm $120 shipped conus
I also have a set of IRC mythos cx 700x 42 knobby tires in great shape i can throw in the box for $25 pair or ill sell them seperate for $32.50 shipped conus. thanks for your time joe kelly columbus ohio -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/M5nzeEYxKsAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] rear 120 mm 5speed freewheel hub for my quickbeam?
hi everyone im looking for a rear hub to be made into a wheel for my quickbeam. i am currently running it as a 5sp freewheel with clamp on derailer via a cheap 126mm wheel sourced from my lbs. we "respaced" it to about 122mm with slimmer nuts and it works quite well. im convinced i want to keep it this way. so now i want to have a nicer wheel built up to be permanent. the trouble is the paul or phil hubs that fit my needs are about $190. i was hoping to get the whole wheel for around that. any thoughts as to an alternative hub or do any of you out there have a 120mm 5 speed freewheel hub youd sell? i have seen a freewheel hub branded quando in 126mm. they have sealed bearings and sell for around $30. the guy at the lbs said i could change out the freewheel spacer to a 5sp one from a 6sp one and grind of 3mm on each side of the axle and id be right there. it would work out ok too since id have that done before the wheel was built to get the dish right easier. a wheel with that hub and a sun cr18 rim @36 spokes works out to be about $150. that dosent sound too bad to me for a hand built wheel. any thoughts as to the positive/negative ramifications of doing this? thanks for your time joe kelly columbus ohio -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/xlUorU0bkekJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Apologies if you don't like them....
Nice lookin' underwear. Nice color. On Friday, August 3, 2012 4:51:30 PM UTC-4, William wrote: > One day a few months back I went into RBW HQ. I can't remember exactly > what I was getting. I think it was just a couple small things. Grant was > over on his computer. A conversation started: > > Grant: "Bill, if we were getting more wool underwear" > Me(interupting): "You mean like Devold?" > Grant: "Who said anything about Devold? If I meant Devold I'd say Devold" > Me: "Sorry. I'll try to stay focused" > Grant: "Good. OK, back to wool underwear, kind of boxerish. If we only > want to sell them in one color, should they be black, grey, or mossy?" > Me: "Um, I think mossy" > Grant: "Check! One less thing to worry about, now YOU have to worry > about it" > > So, if you hate the mossy color on the Riv wool boxers, it is all my > fault, apparently. > > http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/au4.htm > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/xJoGYEwPjP4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Apologies if you don't like them....
What's a 280 pound guy supposed to wear? :-D Obviously the weight is not from being a super weight lifter... but rather located where these mossy beauties would be worn... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 12:29 -0700, Matthew J wrote: > Jan explained quite clearly his is a small operation. To make the > Rene Herse to the best of standards he believes in he had a mold > created to forge the cranks. Making molds is very expensive. Jan > opted to have them made in what he believes is the most optimal size. > If you want cranks in other sizes, there are many companies out thee. > Expecting a one person operation - and one with a very tight focus - > to match the offerings of the bigs is unfair. Look no further than > the limits GP has to set with his Rivendell business- a business > intended for a much wider market. So, in other words, it's a case of he can't afford to make cranks in different sizes and this size ought to work for most people, especially since the next larger size is only a tiny percentage longer; and for those who can't make that size work, there are plenty of other cranks on the market they can buy. Looking for some kind of theory of crank length that would explain why 171 is the "perfect size" is a mistake. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 14:32 -0700, Tony wrote: > Same story, different bike shop. The clerk was going over what was > included in the assembly fee and mentioned that they had inflated the > tires to 70 psi - was that okay? The best I could manage was, "I can > always let some air out." You may be entertained by the following thread http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fat-soft-tires-28345.html from the Velocipede Salon forum, a place largely populated by racing fans and very strong riders, where Campagnolo is the dominant group and tubulars are the tyre of choice. 'It all started when I got lazy, and quit checking the pressure in my tires; I inadvertently quit adhering to the "110 psi" (or whatever) rule, and every so often would find that I had done my last ride at fifty or sixty. I was in Colorado, climbing constantly and riding lots of dirt roads. Lower was just more awesomer. 'That was six or eight years ago. I haven't put more than 90 psi in a tire in that time, and I tell my customers I'm part of a new wave. Mostly, they buy it. A few know that my compressor is at 88 psi, and I just don't feel like dragging out a floor pump for fatty. A select few truly appreciate this fact, and take my lower-is-better-and-here's-how-I-know story at face value. Many, perhaps most, chuff quietly to themselves that they'll ride them low for this ride, and fix it before leaving the house next time - and certainly before coming back to see their lazy, know-it-all mechanic.' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
> last i checked, bag drops and "support" at controls are within the rules My reference was intended to be PBP exclusively - I see the way I wrote that is not clear. As I understand the PBP rules, bag drops are not allowed. On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:39:10 PM UTC-5, Patrick in VT wrote: > On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:44:22 PM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: >> >> Many have support staff at the various rest stops with food, water bottle >> changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike for people who >> actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. Everything you >> need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. > > > last i checked, bag drops and "support" at controls are within the rules . > . . in fact, it's the norm, at least on the longer brevets I've done. even > on the shorter brevets, people rely on cashiers at convenience stores > (these often serve as controls) to buy food, supplies, etc., or have people > meet them there with anything that might be needed. the faster riders want > to be in and out of controls as quickly as possible - it saves a > significant amount of time. and when your racing ... . errr, i mean > randonneuring those precious minutes count. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/NOSJhiXl1KoJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] School me on the virtues of keeping my Nitto seatpost over...
On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 14:53 -0700, lungimsam wrote: > ...a seatpost that has the pump built in, so no need to strap on a > pump on the frame and that means less clutter on the bike, which I > like. > > http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/postpump-seatpost > > I just feel wierd taking off the Nitto. I just like Nitto stuff. It's > nice. Maybe I am wierd to even waste time thinking about this. Look at how much trouble you went through to accurately set your seat height. Care to go through all that again just because you had a flat? A properly installed seat post has grease on it [unless it's carbon in which case it has something else smeared on it, "paste" of some kind] and when you start pumping with that seatpost with pump built in you are going to get grease on your hands. Not only will that add nastiness to the grime you've already gotten on your hands, you will also likely transfer grease on the brake tracks on your rims when you replace the wheel; that will make your brakes squeal, shudder and stop poorly. Then there's the matter of the seat clamp. My Nittos have more offset than the average post, and this one looks as though it might be a zero offset. And my Nitto posts are two-bolt models, with micro-adjustment. I doubt this one has a micro-adjusting two-bolt head. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] School me on the virtues of keeping my Nitto seatpost over...
This sounds to me like a huge solution desperately looking for a tiny problem. Me, I'd hate to have to re-adjust my saddle/post after every flat. On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:53 PM, lungimsam wrote: > ...a seatpost that has the pump built in, so no need to strap on a pump on > the frame and that means less clutter on the bike, which I like. > > http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/postpump-seatpost > > I just feel wierd taking off the Nitto. I just like Nitto stuff. It's nice. > Maybe I am wierd to even waste time thinking about this. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/8Dpo8V2aR8cJ. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- "When in Rome, do as they done in Milledgeville." Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
> if they are breaking the rules then aren't they disqualified? Or listed as DNF? > Or are they cheating in a way that isn't seen an only a few or is it an allegation that all top finishers are cheaters? It is a big race with thousands or participants and spectators. Believe the organization is the French equiavalent of a not for profit. Enforcement is not easy under any circumstances - nigh impossible in PBP. And of course the idea is those who participate do so within the spirit of the event. Obviously there are those who don't care. On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:40:47 PM UTC-5, Kelly wrote: > > if they are breaking the rules then aren't they disqualified? Or listed > as DNF? > Or are they cheating in a way that isn't seen an only a few or is it an > allegation that all top finishers are cheaters? > > Just curious I have no idea... just doesn't sound right. > > Kelly > > On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:14:48 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: >> >> Sorry about multiple posts above. IPad Google Groups compatability >> issues. >> >> >I still think it's a race for those who finish with the best times. >> Don't you? >> >> I think if they thought of it as a race they would follow the rules. >> >> >> On Monday, August 6, 2012 1:50:01 PM UTC-5, Jim Cloud wrote: >> >>> I would hardly expect Richard Sachs to completely abandon his method >>> of frame construction at this point in his career and begin making >>> carbon fiber frames. The current demand for his bikes far exceeds his >>> capacity (he has a seven-year backlog) and he no longer builds any >>> frames except for previous customers of his frames. His bikes are >>> still, in addition, quite competitive in cyclocross. >>> >>> He also builds bikes that are "Thoroughly Modern Millies" in terms of >>> their equipment specifications, he isn't scouring the shelves looking >>> for classic NOS Campy components from the NR/SR era. He has stated >>> that every bike he produces in 2012 is a product of modern techniques >>> and equipment, he does not build the bikes with the same exact methods >>> and materials that he used 30 years ago. >>> >>> > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. >>> >>> I would also imagine that Sachs is aware that the P-B-P isn't a race >>> for many who ride in the event. I still think it's a race for those >>> who finish with the best times. Don't you? >>> >>> Jim Cloud >>> Tucson, AZ >>> >>> >>> On Aug 6, 11:09 am, Steve Palincsar wrote: >>> > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:00 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote: >>> > > Richard Sachs once characterized the modern >>> > > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point >>> of >>> > > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. >>> > >>> > Yes, that's very amusing, but one should also notice that as one of >>> the >>> > best known builders of steel racing bikes, which have not been seen in >>> > the pro peloton for many years now, and which will certainly never be >>> > seen there again, he himself could be described as engaging in or >>> > fostering Civil War Re-enactment. >>> > >>> > > He also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing >>> > > group of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes >>> that >>> > > evoke the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - >>> > > they're riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. >>> > >>> > He also seems to be unaware that PBP is not a race. >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/xqITYN7ug84J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:48 -0700, Matthew J wrote: > It is a big race with thousands or participants and spectators. > Believe the organization is the French equiavalent of a not for > profit. Enforcement is not easy under any circumstances - nigh > impossible in PBP. And of course the idea is those who participate do > so within the spirit of the event. Obviously there are those who > don't care. And it's not a race. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] School me on the virtues of keeping my Nitto seatpost over...
Two of my Dahon folders have pumps built into the seatpost. Nice to have a pump with me all the time. On my "road-ish" folder, I carry a minipump because I use Presta tubes and the built-in pump is for Schrader valves. However, I was able to help out another rider recently (while on the Dahon) because I was the only cyclist in the vicinity with a Schrader-compatible pump. --Eric N On Aug 6, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 14:53 -0700, lungimsam wrote: >> ...a seatpost that has the pump built in, so no need to strap on a >> pump on the frame and that means less clutter on the bike, which I >> like. >> >> http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/postpump-seatpost >> >> I just feel wierd taking off the Nitto. I just like Nitto stuff. It's >> nice. Maybe I am wierd to even waste time thinking about this. > > > Look at how much trouble you went through to accurately set your seat > height. Care to go through all that again just because you had a flat? > > A properly installed seat post has grease on it [unless it's carbon in > which case it has something else smeared on it, "paste" of some kind] > and when you start pumping with that seatpost with pump built in you are > going to get grease on your hands. Not only will that add nastiness to > the grime you've already gotten on your hands, you will also likely > transfer grease on the brake tracks on your rims when you replace the > wheel; that will make your brakes squeal, shudder and stop poorly. > > Then there's the matter of the seat clamp. My Nittos have more offset > than the average post, and this one looks as though it might be a zero > offset. And my Nitto posts are two-bolt models, with micro-adjustment. > I doubt this one has a micro-adjusting two-bolt head. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Shimano CX70s
There is a cheaper version, cx50, I think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/uj8yXyRHkmUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Shimano CX70s
The CX50 doesn't use standard interchangeable road pads. Art's Cyclery has the CX50 on clearance for $20. http://www.artscyclery.com/Shimano_CX50_Cantilever_Brake/descpage-SHBRCX50.html?crumb=RDMCOMPS Mitch Browne San Luis Obispo, CA Shimano CX50 Cantilever Brak On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:10:36 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > > There is a cheaper version, cx50, I think? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/hWXfn9hk_lcJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: rear 120 mm 5speed freewheel hub for my quickbeam?
So I guess you don't have the stock wheelset? I don't know Quando, but Formula, Origin8 and Surly make good but less expensive 120mm hubs. RBW has a budget wheelset with a flip/flop 120 rear hub for $250, and they have a "fancier" flip/flop 120 rear wheel for $250 made by Rich Lesnik. jim m wc ca On Monday, August 6, 2012 10:19:49 AM UTC-7, rex wrote: > hi everyone > im looking for a rear hub to be made into a wheel for my quickbeam. i am > currently running it as a 5sp freewheel with clamp on derailer via a cheap > 126mm wheel sourced from my lbs. we "respaced" it to about 122mm with > slimmer nuts and it works quite well. im convinced i want to keep it this > way. so now i want to have a nicer wheel built up to be permanent. the > trouble is the paul or phil hubs that fit my needs are about $190. i was > hoping to get the whole wheel for around that. > any thoughts as to an alternative hub or do any of you out there have a > 120mm 5 speed freewheel hub youd sell? > i have seen a freewheel hub branded quando in 126mm. they have sealed > bearings and sell for around $30. the guy at the lbs said i could change > out the freewheel spacer to a 5sp one from a 6sp one and grind of 3mm on > each side of the axle and id be right there. it would work out ok too since > id have that done before the wheel was built to get the dish right easier. > a wheel with that hub and a sun cr18 rim @36 spokes works out to be about > $150. that dosent sound too bad to me for a hand built wheel. any thoughts > as to the positive/negative ramifications of doing this? > thanks for your time > joe kelly > columbus ohio > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/DbepO9FC_E4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: rear 120 mm 5speed freewheel hub for my quickbeam?
you could play around with something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Specialized-Sealed-Bearing-Track-Hub-Set-Front-Rear-110mm-Rear-Spacing-/221082986281?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337992a729#ht_500wt_1128 On Monday, August 6, 2012 10:19:49 AM UTC-7, rex wrote: > > hi everyone > im looking for a rear hub to be made into a wheel for my quickbeam. i am > currently running it as a 5sp freewheel with clamp on derailer via a cheap > 126mm wheel sourced from my lbs. we "respaced" it to about 122mm with > slimmer nuts and it works quite well. im convinced i want to keep it this > way. so now i want to have a nicer wheel built up to be permanent. the > trouble is the paul or phil hubs that fit my needs are about $190. i was > hoping to get the whole wheel for around that. > any thoughts as to an alternative hub or do any of you out there have a > 120mm 5 speed freewheel hub youd sell? > i have seen a freewheel hub branded quando in 126mm. they have sealed > bearings and sell for around $30. the guy at the lbs said i could change > out the freewheel spacer to a 5sp one from a 6sp one and grind of 3mm on > each side of the axle and id be right there. it would work out ok too since > id have that done before the wheel was built to get the dish right easier. > a wheel with that hub and a sun cr18 rim @36 spokes works out to be about > $150. that dosent sound too bad to me for a hand built wheel. any thoughts > as to the positive/negative ramifications of doing this? > thanks for your time > joe kelly > columbus ohio > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/AKTFiPPbkOwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
> How long do most riders keep the same bicycle? Looking at folks I know > in the bike clubs I belong to, I get the feeling people keep their cars > longer than their bicycles. seems to me its a lot like cars. Some folks trade em every year (or even faster), others run em till they are dust, and lots of folks fall somewhere in between. On Aug 6, 4:53 am, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 01:56 -0700, Matt Beebe wrote: > > Bicycles are open, while modern automobiles are black, disposable > > boxes. > > How long do most riders keep the same bicycle? Looking at folks I know > in the bike clubs I belong to, I get the feeling people keep their cars > longer than their bicycles. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: HOLDSWORTH ???
Hi Kelly - Can you tell us what the spacing is on the rear dropouts? Thanks, Corwin On Friday, August 3, 2012 9:19:36 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote: > > > I picked up this frame for my wife because it was in such great / new / > can't find a ding scratch etc condition then she decided she wants a betty > foy. > I don't know what it's worth or if anyone would be interested in building > it up.. open for discussion I guess. > > Comes with headset, bottom bracket, stem, and rear derailur > > Kelly > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708313956/in/photostream > http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708306394/in/photostream/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708295672/in/photostream > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/H8SBSei5DYIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: PlatRack and Tubus?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/set-72157623199721925/lightbox/ It'll work! No, the Tubus doesn't have the eyes that a Marks Rack has, but the rear eyes line up w/ the Tubus' struts (actually wants to land on top of them, but they have enough play to let them slide down alongside). I can get another pair of capture/pinch bolts to grab those struts. At the front, the Platrack's vertical plate will line up directly above the Tubus' vertical plate; I can make a linking plate to tie 'em together easy enough. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/J4zD6kqB2kgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: HOLDSWORTH ???
Standard road wheel fits so 130 Kelly On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:42:36 PM UTC-5, Corwin wrote: > > Hi Kelly - > > Can you tell us what the spacing is on the rear dropouts? > > Thanks, > > > Corwin > > On Friday, August 3, 2012 9:19:36 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote: >> >> >> I picked up this frame for my wife because it was in such great / new / >> can't find a ding scratch etc condition then she decided she wants a betty >> foy. >> I don't know what it's worth or if anyone would be interested in building >> it up.. open for discussion I guess. >> >> Comes with headset, bottom bracket, stem, and rear derailur >> >> Kelly >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708313956/in/photostream >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708306394/in/photostream/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7708295672/in/photostream >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/XGDXy4M_w_oJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
> Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen for > what it is, ... But I don't think Jan knows what a Hilsen is. I am also skeptical about his notions regarding oversized main triangle tubes. I have an old Gios race bike that has what I think Jan calls thin tubes. I also have a AHH with, of course, oversized tubes. If I was going on a hard ride with a race club, or doing a criterium, I would ride (and have ridden) the Gios. But thats not because the Hillsen lacks "performance" if we are using that as short hand for easy to go fast on. I just love the way the Gios handles when riding in a pack. I very much doubt that the Hillsen is slower than the Gios, unless of course those GB cerf tires I have on it aren't all they'r cracked up to be (As best I can tell they are). Despite all his talk of experimental basis and evolving views he frequently strikes me as rather dogmatic, and prone to leaping to conclusions. On Aug 6, 11:44 am, Matthew J wrote: > And Richard also failed to note the race bike riding PBP speedsters also > skirt the rules. Many have support staff at the various rest stops with > food, water bottle changes, change of clothes, etc. Jan is promoting a vike > for people who actually rando the ways the rules intend - unsupported. > Everything you need for 1200k is on the bike at the start. > > As for tires, Jan did not say large tires are faster. Rather he said on most > road conditions well made tires wider than the average race clinchers have > lower rolling resistance. And in fact, the width of race tires is increasing. > > Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen for > what it is, but he does not think it would be the best choice of bikes to go > out riding with a group of people with thin tube lbikes optimized for going > fast. I doubt GP would argue the point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Growing Closer With Family + Understanding Exposure
> Also -- I'm an American Sikh. > > Amit Amit, My condolences... I'm sorry that there are nut job idiots in the world. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/5YjdWz_jsR0J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
Ah yesss. Mushy tubulars. The first time (and several times thereafter) I rode up the dirt to the ridge near home I used an old road bike sporting conti tubulars at ~50 or 60 psi. Tires worked fine. Low gear of 39-28 less fine. One great thing with tubulars was I only ever pinch flatted one once, and that time I broke the wheel too. On Aug 6, 1:37 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 14:32 -0700, Tony wrote: > > Same story, different bike shop. The clerk was going over what was > > included in the assembly fee and mentioned that they had inflated the > > tires to 70 psi - was that okay? The best I could manage was, "I can > > always let some air out." > > You may be entertained by the following > threadhttp://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fat-soft-tires-28345.html > from the Velocipede Salon forum, a place largely populated by racing > fans and very strong riders, where Campagnolo is the dominant group and > tubulars are the tyre of choice. > > 'It all started when I got lazy, and quit checking the pressure > in my tires; I inadvertently quit adhering to the "110 psi" (or > whatever) rule, and every so often would find that I had done my > last ride at fifty or sixty. I was in Colorado, climbing > constantly and riding lots of dirt roads. Lower was just more > awesomer. > > 'That was six or eight years ago. I haven't put more than 90 psi > in a tire in that time, and I tell my customers I'm part of a > new wave. Mostly, they buy it. A few know that my compressor is > at 88 psi, and I just don't feel like dragging out a floor pump > for fatty. A select few truly appreciate this fact, and take my > lower-is-better-and-here's-how-I-know story at face value. Many, > perhaps most, chuff quietly to themselves that they'll ride them > low for this ride, and fix it before leaving the house next time > - and certainly before coming back to see their lazy, > know-it-all mechanic.' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Not talking about a few centimeters. That's never even been suggested. I'm talking about 12 or 20 mm bigger. You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and measuring with a stop watch. On Monday, August 6, 2012, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:51 -0400, robert zeidler wrote: > > Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as > > skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? > > For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe > > that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task > > to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new > > frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there, > > of course they would! > > > > This sounds like yet another iteration of the old "if wide tires were > better than 700x23 clinchers the racers would use them." However, it > turns out, those 700x23 clinchers you've been seeing the racers use are > nothing of the sort: they are tubulars disguised to make them look like > clinchers. (And it's well known, due to their construction and the > shape of the rims for them, tubulars of a given size ride like clinchers > that are several mm wider.) > > Do you see anybody actively marketing sew-ups to the recreational > make-believe-they-are-racers community? Of course not. They simply > perpetuate the lie that those narrow clinchers are what the racers are > using. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Complaints about bad roads
Could be, because of my weight (230ish) I prefer slightly firmer rear tires. Running 65psi in my skinny 700x38 Marathon Racers. At least on the rear. Front I can go cushier with about 50psi. Otherwise the tires squirm too much. Especially on corners. Some folks just are more sensitive to road chatter. I've even had hands go numb on my upright bike which has very little weight up front. Oh, and bars like the Albatross seem to make it worse. A combination of angle and needing to twist the arm too much. Figure my years of keyboarding (typing) and playing guitar have made me like the princess and the pea. And the 100 mile gravel century last year didn't help thing. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN and a confirmed wimp in the hands. On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:15 PM, ted wrote: > Ah yesss. Mushy tubulars. The first time (and several times > thereafter) I rode up the dirt to the ridge near home I used an old > road bike sporting conti tubulars at ~50 or 60 psi. Tires worked fine. > Low gear of 39-28 less fine. > > One great thing with tubulars was I only ever pinch flatted one once, > and that time I broke the wheel too. > > On Aug 6, 1:37 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 14:32 -0700, Tony wrote: > > > Same story, different bike shop. The clerk was going over what was > > > included in the assembly fee and mentioned that they had inflated the > > > tires to 70 psi - was that okay? The best I could manage was, "I can > > > always let some air out." > > > > You may be entertained by the following threadhttp:// > www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/fat-soft-tires-28345.html > > from the Velocipede Salon forum, a place largely populated by racing > > fans and very strong riders, where Campagnolo is the dominant group and > > tubulars are the tyre of choice. > > > > 'It all started when I got lazy, and quit checking the pressure > > in my tires; I inadvertently quit adhering to the "110 psi" (or > > whatever) rule, and every so often would find that I had done my > > last ride at fifty or sixty. I was in Colorado, climbing > > constantly and riding lots of dirt roads. Lower was just more > > awesomer. > > > > 'That was six or eight years ago. I haven't put more than 90 psi > > in a tire in that time, and I tell my customers I'm part of a > > new wave. Mostly, they buy it. A few know that my compressor is > > at 88 psi, and I just don't feel like dragging out a floor pump > > for fatty. A select few truly appreciate this fact, and take my > > lower-is-better-and-here's-how-I-know story at face value. Many, > > perhaps most, chuff quietly to themselves that they'll ride them > > low for this ride, and fix it before leaving the house next time > > - and certainly before coming back to see their lazy, > > know-it-all mechanic.' > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Now, I don't ride fast. And because of that, rarely ride with others. And the skinniest tire I have is a 700x37. But if wider is always faster, then the Surly Moonlander with the 4.5 inch wide, incredibly supple tires must the the fastest bike out there. (As Jim Thill can attest, we rode with a guy on a Surly Pugsley last year who could keep up with anyone. He passed me at nearly 40mph on one downhill and later chased and caught up with a tandem during some rolling hills.) Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:16 PM, robert zeidler wrote: > Not talking about a few centimeters. That's never even been suggested. I'm > talking about 12 or 20 mm bigger. > > You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and > measuring with a stop watch. > > > On Monday, August 6, 2012, Steve Palincsar wrote: > >> On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:51 -0400, robert zeidler wrote: >> > Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as >> > skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? >> > For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe >> > that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task >> > to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new >> > frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there, >> > of course they would! >> > >> >> This sounds like yet another iteration of the old "if wide tires were >> better than 700x23 clinchers the racers would use them." However, it >> turns out, those 700x23 clinchers you've been seeing the racers use are >> nothing of the sort: they are tubulars disguised to make them look like >> clinchers. (And it's well known, due to their construction and the >> shape of the rims for them, tubulars of a given size ride like clinchers >> that are several mm wider.) >> >> Do you see anybody actively marketing sew-ups to the recreational >> make-believe-they-are-racers community? Of course not. They simply >> perpetuate the lie that those narrow clinchers are what the racers are >> using. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I keep thinking how nice if would be if folks would use numbers (and units if course) more often. You know, like how many mm wider, or how many mph faster etc. Even better folks could also state a base state they are comparing to. Like 1 mph faster at 20 mph. On a related note, with curves of optimal tire pressure vs. weight being out there, does anybody else wonder when somebody is going to put forward an "optimal" tire width vs. weight curve to go with it? Maybe with different curves for different surfaces? On Aug 6, 5:16 pm, robert zeidler wrote: > Not talking about a few centimeters. That's never even been suggested. I'm > talking about 12 or 20 mm bigger. > > You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and > measuring with a stop watch. > > > > > > > > On Monday, August 6, 2012, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 11:51 -0400, robert zeidler wrote: > > > Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as > > > skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? > > > For sure. Not faster. If that were the case, does anyone believe > > > that the entire bicycle, and tire industry would not jump at the task > > > to supply the entire racing/fast recreational community with new > > > frames and rubber? Come on all you anti-corporate people out there, > > > of course they would! > > > This sounds like yet another iteration of the old "if wide tires were > > better than 700x23 clinchers the racers would use them." However, it > > turns out, those 700x23 clinchers you've been seeing the racers use are > > nothing of the sort: they are tubulars disguised to make them look like > > clinchers. (And it's well known, due to their construction and the > > shape of the rims for them, tubulars of a given size ride like clinchers > > that are several mm wider.) > > > Do you see anybody actively marketing sew-ups to the recreational > > make-believe-they-are-racers community? Of course not. They simply > > perpetuate the lie that those narrow clinchers are what the racers are > > using. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > . > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:16:03 PM UTC-7, z-man wrote: > > You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and > measuring with a stop watch. > Um, why not? Assuming one is rigorous with the measuring, ie. calm wind, repeat roll-downs, same bike & rider, etc. Have you read the test procedure they used? Seemed solid to me, which is why I'm asking. Thx. -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/IqLWKSTUP_QJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Monday, August 6, 2012 4:59:06 PM UTC-7, ted wrote: > > > Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen > for what it is, ... > > But I don't think Jan knows what a Hilsen is. I am also skeptical > about his notions regarding oversized main triangle tubes. > Just curious, are you a magazine sub (or once were) or basing this on his blog and things he's written on various list-serves? Regards, -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/a4jRCYZ8vOgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I too am a big Jan Heine admirer. He is a very bike smart guy, but he is confused about two things, not evident in the posted blog. First, riding fast and riding far are two different things. Both can be fun, but as you combine the two, fewer and fewer people actually enjoy it. Second, bikes and components are not necessarily faster or better because they were first made in France. I would be happy to put my Ram, with mostly USA made components, up against any bike costing not more than twice as much on any two to four hour ride, which is about all that I or most riders actually enjoy. michael On Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:29:18 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: > > http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/riding-fast-is-fun/ > > I personally -- to quote one commentator -- would rather stab myself > in the eye than ride 600 km, but this little essay has some good > points about the joy of riding fast, but on intelligent bikes. Several > RBW references in the correspondence, too. > -- > "When in Rome, do as they done in Milledgeville." > > Flannery O'Connor > > - > Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA > For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW > http://resumespecialties.com/index.html > - > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/QrCuxJO-1FwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Not a sub. My remark about him not knowing what a hillsen is stems from enquiring on his blog about his reasoning for characterizing it as he did and then reading his response of "It’s not an issue of comfort, but of performance. Whether the A. Homer Hilsen is overbuilt or not is hard to say without having ridden one." My skepticism about the importance of main triangle tube diameter is based on my impressions of a Gios and a Hillsen's ride qualities and some simplistic mechanics based theorizing. I also enquired about that but I don't think he responded on that aspect of the thing. If you can point me to any open source description of the basis for his views on tube diameter, or even a more complete explanation of what those views are, I would appreciate it. My other remarks are just how his presentation in his blog strikes me. Not just the one thread but still I was likely being overly snarky and ought to take a chill pill or something (like maybe go ride a bike). On Aug 6, 5:51 pm, Allan in Portland wrote: > On Monday, August 6, 2012 4:59:06 PM UTC-7, ted wrote: > > > > Finally, on the linked comments section, Jan says he likes the Hilsen > > for what it is, ... > > > But I don't think Jan knows what a Hilsen is. I am also skeptical > > about his notions regarding oversized main triangle tubes. > > Just curious, are you a magazine sub (or once were) or basing this on his > blog and things he's written on various list-serves? > > Regards, > -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Growing Closer With Family + Understanding Exposure
> Also -- I'm an American Sikh. > > Amit > Amit, I am so sorry about the catastrophe that has hit your community. I pray we can all find a way to transformation this evil and pain into a deeper sense of care for one another. Perhaps somehow the joy of cycling that you share can create more connected communities. Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/_ZffsIjUihEJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 2012, at 10:51 AM, robert zeidler wrote: > Or the endless opinion that fatter tires are every bit as fast as > skinny tires. No way. More comfortable? Absolutely. Better on dirt? > For sure. Not faster. This is measurable. Avocet did testing on this in the 80s, and others have more or less duplicated, and found that up to about 25 mm wider was faster but this effect dropped off due to the necessity to change to a coarser fabric for the casing due to- if I recall correctly- hoop stress increasing faster than the minor diameter increases. Basically a casing made from the fine high-TPI fabric possible at 18-25 mm is prone to failure at widths of 28-35 mm. This may have been for cotton casings and I don't know if the same holds true for synthetic casing fabrics. I have found that wider tires are more prone to casing failures, less prone to pinch flats and about the same for punctures. At 6'4" and 230 lbs, I also find I have to inflate all tires to the rated pressure with the result that differences in comfort are not really all that noticeable. A little, maybe. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] fs: Platrack + Slickersack (olive)
For sale... (1) Nitto Platrack for sale. Struts are uncut & mounting hardwear is included. (2) Slickersack in Olive. New, never used. I purchased both when they were clearing them out. I never used the bag but the rack I mounted. Each are $115 shipped from Chicago,IL *http://tinyurl.com/9kn5tha **http://tinyurl.com/8dnhfzj* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/wBaAlVvwFR8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Jim Cloud wrote: > I find some of the various modern Constructeur bikes, built with > French components from the 1960-1970's (e.g. Mafac brakes, Simplex > derailleurs, T.A. or Rene Herse modern manufacture cranks), to be a > little strange. Richard Sachs once characterized the modern > infatuation with the French Constructeur era bike, as the end-point of > touring bike design, as being in the vein of Civil War enactors. He > also made the point that most of the riders in the top finishing group > of classic brevets, such as the P-B-P are not riding bikes that evoke > the Rene Herse or Alex Singer randonneur bikes of the past - they're > riding modern carbon fiber frame bikes. I think this was a valid > observation I am reminded of Dr. Clifford Graves's story of PBP, in which the technical inspector told him that his Rene Herse was "too heavy" and that most of the other riders were on race bikes (I'd bet that the difference was probably all of 2 kg or so). Of course, my Rivendell All-Rounder has fenders, 32 mm tires, lights, front rack, Berthoud bag, Mafac tandem cantis, etc... And did before Jan started publishing VBQ. My inspiration was the old Guinness book. Initially I saw Jan as a sort of like-minded fellow, but he has gone far beyond me in that direction. One of my other favorite bikes is a 3 speed "club racer" type bike (I designed and built the frame) with a Carradice Nelson that I bought from Riv at least 15 years ago. And my other favorite bike is my old Ritchey from my racing days, with 25s on it. I much prefer Jan's event reports, interviews and histories to the tech articles. I have never liked bike test reports in any magazine. At least Jan makes no bones about his very specific preferences and standards, which makes it easier to interpret his evaluations. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:18:41 PM UTC-7, ted wrote: > > Not a sub. Don't have time to track down any blog posts on it, but the triangle stoutness is in the magazine quite a bit, both how he came to discover it, and how he went on to qualitatively measure it. In short, and taking liberties with Jan's description the frame is a spring. With the right amount of flex in the spring, energy can be absorbed on the down stroke and released as the pedal crest in rotation. Too much flex and the bike bobs, too little and the spring isn't stretched any. There's plenty of quantitative questions still open, but qualitatively "planing" as he calls it is pretty well settled, unless one thinks Jan is a complete kook. As he said in the blog, he's ridden some 50 bikes in the last 10 years like a borrowed mule. (OK, I added the second part.) I'm inclined to believe him on this point. Regards, -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/_7NJRZ5rIHIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
I don't know what z-man's objection is but the annals of science are full of wrong or overstated conclusions based on seemingly solid approaches. I believe Jan concedes, or even boasts, that his methodology is different that what pretty much the entire tire engineering and testing industry does. If I were going to give it a critical evaluation I would want a very detailed definition of the testing methodology, all the raw data, and complete documentation of the data reduction and analysis. Since I am not inclined to buy the relevant issues of BQ I don't have access to that information. Even if I did buy the articles the info I would want may not be there. For me, Jan's assertions about tires are more persuasive than many, but still way short of proven scientific fact. Naturally others may give them more (or less) weight. On Aug 6, 5:41 pm, Allan in Portland wrote: > On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:16:03 PM UTC-7, z-man wrote: > > > You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and > > measuring with a stop watch. > > Um, why not? Assuming one is rigorous with the measuring, ie. calm wind, > repeat roll-downs, same bike & rider, etc. Have you read the test procedure > they used? Seemed solid to me, which is why I'm asking. Thx. > > -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Allan in Portland wrote: > > > On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:16:03 PM UTC-7, z-man wrote: > You're not going to determine what rolls faster by rolling down a hill and > measuring with a stop watch. > > Um, why not? Assuming one is rigorous with the measuring, ie. calm wind, > repeat roll-downs, same bike & rider, etc. Have you read the test procedure > they used? Seemed solid to me, which is why I'm asking. Thx. While Jan et al made a lot of efforts to minimize the variables- the goal of experimental design being to eliminate all fariables except the one you want to measure- doing a coast down ride with a live human on board, outside, etc., has too many variables that may intrude. They worked hard but the design of the experiment doomed it to having too much noise, even with careful statistical analysis, to produce reliable and valid results. I have much preferred the tests Jan has done using a power meter, which also has uncontrolled variables but seems to me to be a more direct way to measure the feature of interest: how efficient the bike is with product A vs. product B. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:37 -0500, Eric Platt wrote: > Now, I don't ride fast. And because of that, rarely ride with others. > And the skinniest tire I have is a 700x37. But if wider is always > faster, then the Surly Moonlander with the 4.5 inch wide, incredibly > supple tires must the the fastest bike out there. Nobody has ever made either claim. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 12:20 pm, J L wrote: > The cranks for example: It seems to me that his decision to > create a net forged replica of the famous Rene Herse crank in the > traditional 171mm size is defended by claiming that longer cranks are not > needed because it is only a 2% difference (or so, don't have the quote in > front of me but i think we have all read it). It would have been very easy to make multiple crank lengths from the same forging. All small crank makers do this (unless they don't even forge their cranks at all, and just machine them from billet). We chose to make a single length, so we can make stronger cranks. We don't save any money by doing this, and we get a lot of flak. Why do we don't we just do it the easy way, like everybody else? Because we think it is better to have a stronger crank that can pass EN standards for fatigue resistance. (Ask the other small makers whether theirs have passed the EN standards.) Next thing, people might say that Grant Petersen only likes lugged frames because all his frames are lugged. Self-serving, isn't it? Of course, it's utter nonsense: It would be easy for Rivendell to sell TIG-welded frames - they'd save tens of thousands of dollars they invest in lug molds along the way. So Grant doesn't like lugged frames because Rivendell sells them, but Rivendell sells lugged frames because Grant likes them. The liking came first, the selling second. > The happy accident that became the Hetre is another > example. They are my favorite tires and it all came about in such and > interesting way. The only accident part in the Hetre was that it turned out 2 mm wider than planned. The fast-rolling, super-comfortable nature of the tire was no accident, but based on careful research both by Bicycle Quarterly and Panaracer. I bet that even if the Hetre had been a 38 mm tire as planned, it still would be your favorite tire. If you want to see what we have to say about some products we sell that didn't meet expectations, you can read that here: http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/mounting-tires-on-rims-with-deep-wells/ I don't think we are prone to making excuses for things that don't turn out right. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly http://www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 6:53 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > While Jan et al made a lot of efforts to minimize the variables- the goal of > experimental design being to eliminate all fariables except the one you want > to measure- doing a coast down ride with a live human on board, outside, > etc., has too many variables that may intrude. They worked hard but the > design of the experiment doomed it to having too much noise, even with > careful statistical analysis, to produce reliable and valid results. The statistical analysis is a tool to determine how much "noise" you have. If the same tires always score the same in repeat experiments, but other tires always score differently, then you have shown that the tires are different. If there is too much noise, you will find that the differences between repeat tests of the same tire are greater than the differences between different tires. The statistics are just a formalized way of evaluating that. So to say that "the results are flawed despite the statistical analysis" doesn't make sense. What it comes down to is both the amount of external variables and the size of the differences in tire performance. In an extreme example, if you measured a square wheel vs. a round one, you could have all kinds of wind and other variables, yet you would show conclusively that the round wheel is faster. (The square one doesn't turn at all.) What surprised us with our testing was that the performance differences between tires are huge - large enough to measure even in a test that has some (albeit small) amount of noise. I had hoped that with the recent trend of even pro racers to wider tires at lower pressures, the tire discussion was finally over. Yes, we did use methods that were different from the industry standard. However, the industry (at least in North America, where Bicycle Quarterly is mostly read) has since accepted our results, which means that a) they found our methods credible and b) they were able to replicate our results with whatever testing methods they chose. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly http://www.bikequarterly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Thanks for the synopsis. It sounds like you may be conflating two phenomena. Flexy main triangles exhibit bottom bracket motion under strong pedaling (mostly sideways and rotating). Since metal has quite low elasticity losses energy you put in mostly comes back out. Wether or not that energy release sends a particular rider down the road faster or not is a bit harder to pin down. You may find reading about the early Vitus fames and Seaun Kelly interesting on this point. I think its fair to say that how much of this is how good a thing is debatable. I thought when Jan talked about "planing" he was referring to how the bike interacted with road irregularities. This is about in plane deformations. In that mode the main triangle is so much stiffer than the fork, and probably the rear triangle, not to mention the tires and wheels that I find it hard to credit the suggestion that a stiff main triangle presents a problem there. I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant group except perhaps BQ subscribers). On Aug 6, 6:45 pm, Allan in Portland wrote: > On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:18:41 PM UTC-7, ted wrote: > > > Not a sub. > > Don't have time to track down any blog posts on it, but the triangle > stoutness is in the magazine quite a bit, both how he came to discover it, > and how he went on to qualitatively measure it. In short, and taking > liberties with Jan's description the frame is a spring. With the right > amount of flex in the spring, energy can be absorbed on the down stroke and > released as the pedal crest in rotation. Too much flex and the bike bobs, > too little and the spring isn't stretched any. > > There's plenty of quantitative questions still open, but qualitatively > "planing" as he calls it is pretty well settled, unless one thinks Jan is a > complete kook. As he said in the blog, he's ridden some 50 bikes in the > last 10 years like a borrowed mule. (OK, I added the second part.) I'm > inclined to believe him on this point. > > Regards, > -Allan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 18:14 -0700, Michael Hechmer wrote: > I too am a big Jan Heine admirer. He is a very bike smart guy, but he > is confused about two things, not evident in the posted blog. First, > riding fast and riding far are two different things. Both can be fun, > but as you combine the two, fewer and fewer people actually enjoy > it. > Second, bikes and components are not necessarily faster or better > because they were first made in France. Do you honestly think he believes that? You don't think there's any chance at all that it's simply that he likes the sort of things the French made? > I would be happy to put my Ram, with mostly USA made components, up > against any bike costing not more than twice as much on any two to > four hour ride, which is about all that I or most riders actually > enjoy. I'll happily take that challenge, having been the owner of a Ram which I sold because it was too stiff for me, and replaced with a Johnny Coast-built Velo Orange Randonneur (just like the one BQ tested) with all the other components except the headset swapped over. Two hour, four hour, ten hour ride, in every case the VO performs differently in a way that I would characterize as "better". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: > > I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he > even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these > topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of > those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant > group except perhaps BQ subscribers). > > Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] rear 120 mm 5speed freewheel hub for my quickbeam?
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/grand-cru-freewheel-rear-wheel-126mm-700c.html That looks right up your alley. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/FqrlE3dTbp4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Jan writes: "It would be easy for Rivendell to sell TIG-welded frames" Not to dispute Jan's assertion that he and riv both sell what they sell because they like it and not the other way around (ie liking what they sell because they sell it), I buy that hook line and sinker for both businesses, but I think Grant has said that Riv would not be successful selling such bikes because other larger well established firms with cost advantages are already covering that. On Aug 6, 7:03 pm, Jan Heine wrote: > On Aug 6, 12:20 pm, J L wrote: > > > The cranks for example: It seems to me that his decision to > > create a net forged replica of the famous Rene Herse crank in the > > traditional 171mm size is defended by claiming that longer cranks are not > > needed because it is only a 2% difference (or so, don't have the quote in > > front of me but i think we have all read it). > > It would have been very easy to make multiple crank lengths from the > same forging. All small crank makers do this (unless they don't even > forge their cranks at all, and just machine them from billet). We > chose to make a single length, so we can make stronger cranks. > > We don't save any money by doing this, and we get a lot of flak. Why > do we don't we just do it the easy way, like everybody else? Because > we think it is better to have a stronger crank that can pass EN > standards for fatigue resistance. (Ask the other small makers whether > theirs have passed the EN standards.) > > Next thing, people might say that Grant Petersen only likes lugged > frames because all his frames are lugged. Self-serving, isn't it? Of > course, it's utter nonsense: It would be easy for Rivendell to sell > TIG-welded frames - they'd save tens of thousands of dollars they > invest in lug molds along the way. So Grant doesn't like lugged frames > because Rivendell sells them, but Rivendell sells lugged frames > because Grant likes them. The liking came first, the selling second. > > > The happy accident that became the Hetre is another > > example. They are my favorite tires and it all came about in such and > > interesting way. > > The only accident part in the Hetre was that it turned out 2 mm wider > than planned. The fast-rolling, super-comfortable nature of the tire > was no accident, but based on careful research both by Bicycle > Quarterly and Panaracer. I bet that even if the Hetre had been a 38 mm > tire as planned, it still would be your favorite tire. > > If you want to see what we have to say about some products we sell > that didn't meet expectations, you can read that here: > > http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/mounting-tires-on-rims-with-... > > I don't think we are prone to making excuses for things that don't > turn out right. > > Jan Heine > Editor > Bicycle Quarterlyhttp://www.bikequarterly.com > > Follow our blog athttp://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
So what is the obsession with stiffer tubing, in all seriousness? The only bike I can remember flexing under me so much I noticed it was my Look KG96 and it was CF which is supposedly super stiff, but it was more that I was afraid at 250lbs of destroying it rather than being bothered by the flexiness. I can remember back in the day reading about how pros loved 531 due to its "springiness" while climbing, is the trend towards super stiff just yet another marketing ploy? I wish I had the money to have 4 totally different bikes to be able to ride them all back to back but at my weight and riding conditions I rock the bombadil which while stiffer than my old Raleigh International is certainly not dead feeling, then again I only have one top tube, thankfully. On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: > > > > I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he > > even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these > > topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of > > those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant > > group except perhaps BQ subscribers). > > > > > > > Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. > A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: > they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the > day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
"... in every case the VO performs differently in a way that I would characterize as "better"." Here Here. Surely some bikes behave differently than others, and informed people develop preferences. A difference in preferences doesn't make one party right and the other wrong. On Aug 6, 7:26 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 18:14 -0700, Michael Hechmer wrote: > > I too am a big Jan Heine admirer. He is a very bike smart guy, but he > > is confused about two things, not evident in the posted blog. First, > > riding fast and riding far are two different things. Both can be fun, > > but as you combine the two, fewer and fewer people actually enjoy > > it. > > Second, bikes and components are not necessarily faster or better > > because they were first made in France. > > Do you honestly think he believes that? You don't think there's any > chance at all that it's simply that he likes the sort of things the > French made? > > > I would be happy to put my Ram, with mostly USA made components, up > > against any bike costing not more than twice as much on any two to > > four hour ride, which is about all that I or most riders actually > > enjoy. > > I'll happily take that challenge, having been the owner of a Ram which I > sold because it was too stiff for me, and replaced with a Johnny > Coast-built Velo Orange Randonneur (just like the one BQ tested) with > all the other components except the headset swapped over. Two hour, > four hour, ten hour ride, in every case the VO performs differently in a > way that I would characterize as "better". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
"So what is the obsession with stiffer tubing," Hmmm. Sorry cant really say, find it a bit much myself. I have noticed differences, particularly climbing standing and "jumping". With a stiff bottom bracket there is an immediacy of forward response when you stomp a pedal, which I might characterize as "responsive". With a more flexible one the chain may intermittently rum on the fd cage as you climb out of the saddle. Some folks say a bike feels "dead" if nothing moves when they shove or pull on it. If you ride a loaded bike and the seat tube and head tube don't stay in plane, handling can suffer. I think its mostly stuff like that. Perhaps somebody who feels stronger about it can give a better answer. On Aug 6, 7:42 pm, Peter Morgano wrote: > So what is the obsession with stiffer tubing, in all seriousness? The only > bike I can remember flexing under me so much I noticed it was my Look > KG96 and it was CF which is supposedly super stiff, but it was more that I > was afraid at 250lbs of destroying it rather than being bothered by the > flexiness. I can remember back in the day reading about how pros loved 531 > due to its "springiness" while climbing, is the trend towards super stiff > just yet another marketing ploy? I wish I had the money to have 4 > totally different bikes to be able to ride them all back to back but at my > weight and riding conditions I rock the bombadil which while stiffer than > my old Raleigh International is certainly not dead feeling, then again I > only have one top tube, thankfully. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: > > > > I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he > > > even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these > > > topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of > > > those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant > > > group except perhaps BQ subscribers). > > > Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. > > A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: > > they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the > > day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: PlatRack and Tubus?
Do the platrack struts interfere with panniers? On Monday, July 9, 2012 11:59:07 AM UTC-7, Leslie wrote: > > I know the PlatRack was designed specifically to go with Mark's Rack; > > but I'd be curious to know if anyone has seen if it would happen to mate > up to a rack like the Cosmo... > > Anyone tried such? > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kNLtxT6KQ9UJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: >> >> I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he >> even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these >> topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of >> those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant >> group except perhaps BQ subscribers). > > > Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. > A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: > they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the > day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. True enough. Various aspects of bike frame design have been serially overemphasized over the course of decades, including BB stiffness, chainstay length, chainstay and seatstay diameters, etc. The power loss from BB flex is probably close enough to nil as makes no difference, even with "noodly" frames. I like mine to be stiff enough to make derailleur rub rare because it's annoying, but I've never actually been able to feel any power loss from frame flex. Someone already mentioned Sean Kelly who won monuments and Classics, the maillot vert, the Vuelta a Espana, etc., on one of the most notoriously noodly frames ever made, the Vitus 979. If the frame flex handicapped him, well that's actually just kind of frightening... Allan referenced the idea of a bike frame as a spring which is actually correct. It is a spring. There are several springs on a bike- the frame, the handlebars, the wheels (especially laterally but also radially), the saddle, etc. In the case of bars, frame and radial wheel flex the distances involved are tenths to hundreds of an inch. Lateral wheel flex, especially the rear wheel, can be relatively large (e.g., 1/8 to 1/4 inch) under normal use. A lot of these can be quantified with strain gauges, which might be an interesting study. Can "planing" be objectively measured and compared to the subjective experience? Can all those things affect how a bike feels to ride? Maybe. I think that most are like the princess and the pea, but some people may be more sensitive to these sorts of inputs than me. We all have had the experience of "I like this bike and I don't like that bike." There are a lot of variables that go into that. Some of those might be exactly the kinds of thing Jan writes about, some may not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Certainly fads or styles or whatever have ebbed and flowed over whether or not a noodly frame is undesirable, or how stiff is stiff enough, or if stiff is harsh and uncomfortable, or whatever, but I think Jan is fairly unique in claiming categorically that the right flex is faster, and enough faster that a stiff bike can't be a good "performance" bike. Im still not quite sure exactly what he is advocating. If its about beneficial interaction between pedaling action and bb flex I don't get why thats called planing. Does somebody here know? On Aug 6, 8:55 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Aug 6, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: > > >> I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he > >> even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these > >> topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of > >> those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant > >> group except perhaps BQ subscribers). > > > Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. > > A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: > > they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the > > day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. > > True enough. Various aspects of bike frame design have been serially > overemphasized over the course of decades, including BB stiffness, chainstay > length, chainstay and seatstay diameters, etc. The power loss from BB flex > is probably close enough to nil as makes no difference, even with "noodly" > frames. I like mine to be stiff enough to make derailleur rub rare because > it's annoying, but I've never actually been able to feel any power loss from > frame flex. Someone already mentioned Sean Kelly who won monuments and > Classics, the maillot vert, the Vuelta a Espana, etc., on one of the most > notoriously noodly frames ever made, the Vitus 979. If the frame flex > handicapped him, well that's actually just kind of frightening... > > Allan referenced the idea of a bike frame as a spring which is actually > correct. It is a spring. There are several springs on a bike- the frame, > the handlebars, the wheels (especially laterally but also radially), the > saddle, etc. In the case of bars, frame and radial wheel flex the distances > involved are tenths to hundreds of an inch. Lateral wheel flex, especially > the rear wheel, can be relatively large (e.g., 1/8 to 1/4 inch) under normal > use. A lot of these can be quantified with strain gauges, which might be an > interesting study. Can "planing" be objectively measured and compared to the > subjective experience? > > Can all those things affect how a bike feels to ride? Maybe. I think that > most are like the princess and the pea, but some people may be more sensitive > to these sorts of inputs than me. We all have had the experience of "I like > this bike and I don't like that bike." There are a lot of variables that go > into that. Some of those might be exactly the kinds of thing Jan writes > about, some may not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] School me on the virtues of keeping my Nitto seatpost over...
I'm not sure you can even fit one in a regular frame (note the page says "built for Tern", a folder). I have one on my Dahon, and it's very long and quite heavy. A Nitto post and minipump is a better option. in my opinion. Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Monday, August 6, 2012 2:06:37 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote: > Two of my Dahon folders have pumps built into the seatpost. Nice to have a > pump with me all the time. > > On my "road-ish" folder, I carry a minipump because I use Presta tubes and > the built-in pump is for Schrader valves. However, I was able to help out > another rider recently (while on the Dahon) because I was the only cyclist > in the vicinity with a Schrader-compatible pump. > > --Eric N > > On Aug 6, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 14:53 -0700, lungimsam wrote: > >> ...a seatpost that has the pump built in, so no need to strap on a > >> pump on the frame and that means less clutter on the bike, which I > >> like. > >> > >> http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/postpump-seatpost > >> > >> I just feel wierd taking off the Nitto. I just like Nitto stuff. It's > >> nice. Maybe I am wierd to even waste time thinking about this. > > > > > > Look at how much trouble you went through to accurately set your seat > > height. Care to go through all that again just because you had a flat? > > > > A properly installed seat post has grease on it [unless it's carbon in > > which case it has something else smeared on it, "paste" of some kind] > > and when you start pumping with that seatpost with pump built in you are > > going to get grease on your hands. Not only will that add nastiness to > > the grime you've already gotten on your hands, you will also likely > > transfer grease on the brake tracks on your rims when you replace the > > wheel; that will make your brakes squeal, shudder and stop poorly. > > > > Then there's the matter of the seat clamp. My Nittos have more offset > > than the average post, and this one looks as though it might be a zero > > offset. And my Nitto posts are two-bolt models, with micro-adjustment. > > I doubt this one has a micro-adjusting two-bolt head. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/LwIX2V-oImUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
On Aug 6, 7:37 pm, ted wrote: > Jan writes: "It would be easy for Rivendell to sell TIG-welded frames" > > I think Grant has said that Riv would not be > successful selling such bikes because other larger well established > firms with cost advantages are already covering that. When you look at Surly's success with taking many Rivendell designs and ideas and replicating them in TIG, it seems that there is a very ready market for those bikes. Knowing the economics of the bike business, I suspect that the Surly brand is more profitable than Grant's bike lines. But I also suspect that Grant doesn't care - he makes the bikes he makes not because they are the most profitable, but because they are the bikes he loves. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly http://www.bikequarterly.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting blog entry (and comments/replies) from Jan Heine's blog
Jan has tried to explain that, mainly he came up with the term when he was first thinking about the issue, IIRC. He borrowed the term from boating. One problem is that what's stiff to Jan and Mark might be noodly to me, since I am probably 60 lbs heavier and 6" taller than they are. My "fastest" bike (according to my average speeds, anyway, but again there are too many uncontrolled variables) is my Ritchey, which also has the stiffest BB due to the ovalized seat tube. On Aug 6, 2012, at 11:42 PM, ted wrote: > Certainly fads or styles or whatever have ebbed and flowed over > whether or not a noodly frame is undesirable, or how stiff is stiff > enough, or if stiff is harsh and uncomfortable, or whatever, but I > think Jan is fairly unique in claiming categorically that the right > flex is faster, and enough faster that a stiff bike can't be a good > "performance" bike. > > Im still not quite sure exactly what he is advocating. If its about > beneficial interaction between pedaling action and bb flex I don't get > why thats called planing. Does somebody here know? > > On Aug 6, 8:55 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: >> On Aug 6, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 19:21 -0700, ted wrote: >> I wouldn't say a complete kook, but a bit kooky maybe. Certainly he even describes himself a well outside of mainstream thought on these topics. I suspect that "planing" is only mostly settled in the view of those who believe Jan (which I doubt is a majority of any relevant group except perhaps BQ subscribers). >> >>> Well outside the "stiffer is always better" school of thought, for sure. >>> A downright heretic in that respect. As for the rest, don't be so sure: >>> they referred to what he calls "planing" as "a lively ride" back in the >>> day, and bikes that had it were highly respected and enjoyed. >> >> True enough. Various aspects of bike frame design have been serially >> overemphasized over the course of decades, including BB stiffness, chainstay >> length, chainstay and seatstay diameters, etc. The power loss from BB flex >> is probably close enough to nil as makes no difference, even with "noodly" >> frames. I like mine to be stiff enough to make derailleur rub rare because >> it's annoying, but I've never actually been able to feel any power loss from >> frame flex. Someone already mentioned Sean Kelly who won monuments and >> Classics, the maillot vert, the Vuelta a Espana, etc., on one of the most >> notoriously noodly frames ever made, the Vitus 979. If the frame flex >> handicapped him, well that's actually just kind of frightening... >> >> Allan referenced the idea of a bike frame as a spring which is actually >> correct. It is a spring. There are several springs on a bike- the frame, >> the handlebars, the wheels (especially laterally but also radially), the >> saddle, etc. In the case of bars, frame and radial wheel flex the distances >> involved are tenths to hundreds of an inch. Lateral wheel flex, especially >> the rear wheel, can be relatively large (e.g., 1/8 to 1/4 inch) under normal >> use. A lot of these can be quantified with strain gauges, which might be an >> interesting study. Can "planing" be objectively measured and compared to >> the subjective experience? >> >> Can all those things affect how a bike feels to ride? Maybe. I think that >> most are like the princess and the pea, but some people may be more >> sensitive to these sorts of inputs than me. We all have had the experience >> of "I like this bike and I don't like that bike." There are a lot of >> variables that go into that. Some of those might be exactly the kinds of >> thing Jan writes about, some may not. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Growing Closer With Family + Understanding Exposure
Amen on all three counts. Philip On Monday, August 6, 2012 6:22:08 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote: > > > > >> Also -- I'm an American Sikh. >> >> Amit >> > > Amit, I am so sorry about the catastrophe that has hit your community. > I pray we can all find a way to transformation this evil and pain into a > deeper sense of care for one another. > > Perhaps somehow the joy of cycling that you share can create more > connected communities. > > Michael > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4pcsTRdJ89cJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: rear 120 mm 5speed freewheel hub for my quickbeam?
I'd ride the setup you have now until the bearings failed or it took a lot of maintenance to true. But I'm notoriously cheap. Iro Cycles (down for maintenance right now) had super cheap track hubs, rims and spokes for a while. Formula/Velocity, I think. The rims build up easily, and have been solid for me. Someone on this list has a freewheel hub they can sell you for $5-$20. Fixie wheelsets are $100-$150 on eBay. You can (probably) just spin a freewheel on there. Philip biketinker.com On Monday, August 6, 2012 10:19:49 AM UTC-7, rex wrote: > > hi everyone > im looking for a rear hub to be made into a wheel for my quickbeam. i am > currently running it as a 5sp freewheel with clamp on derailer via a cheap > 126mm wheel sourced from my lbs. we "respaced" it to about 122mm with > slimmer nuts and it works quite well. im convinced i want to keep it this > way. so now i want to have a nicer wheel built up to be permanent. the > trouble is the paul or phil hubs that fit my needs are about $190. i was > hoping to get the whole wheel for around that. > any thoughts as to an alternative hub or do any of you out there have a > 120mm 5 speed freewheel hub youd sell? > i have seen a freewheel hub branded quando in 126mm. they have sealed > bearings and sell for around $30. the guy at the lbs said i could change > out the freewheel spacer to a 5sp one from a 6sp one and grind of 3mm on > each side of the axle and id be right there. it would work out ok too since > id have that done before the wheel was built to get the dish right easier. > a wheel with that hub and a sun cr18 rim @36 spokes works out to be about > $150. that dosent sound too bad to me for a hand built wheel. any thoughts > as to the positive/negative ramifications of doing this? > thanks for your time > joe kelly > columbus ohio > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/XAemRzWK-L4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Biking incident on Seattle BGT...
Sorry to hear about your BGT incident! I like how nice you are about it but I yell at three abreast every time. If your crowd of peds take over half the trail you are going to hear it from me. Unrelated sort of: The one time I was hit was when I stopped to investigate a fender rub and a MTBer with those evil ergo things slammed right into the back of me, scraped up my new Brooks, then poked me in then kidney. I have never looked at those dang things the same since. Bike traffic does get serious in Seattle though Just today there was over 30 bikes in front of me on the Fremont bridge. It felt like a critical mass rally minus the beer. Don't worry there will be plenty of room in a month or so! -Ryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/8TzoNwb0i68J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
