Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Sérgio Marques]

2014-12-11 19:28 GMT+00:00 Stanislav Horáček :
>
> Dne 11.12.2014 v 18:44 Sophie napsal(a):
>
>> Le 11/12/2014 18:01, Stanislav Horáček a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  So Cloph will create a master project for all the languages. You can
 choose where you want to translate, on master or on the next branch
 (4.5.0) when it will be created. Let see if it is better or not in our
 project :)

>>>
>>> the new workflow is a bit unclear for me. If I work only in branches,
>>> let's say in 4.5, does it mean that
>>> - changes from 4.5 branch will be ported back to master (if so, when?),
>>> or
>>> - changes in 4.5 branch will not affect the next 4.6 branch?
>>>
>>
>> It will be exactly as it is now for the work on 4.4, the template will
>> be updated in 4.6 branch between beta1 and RC1. 4.5 and 4.6 branches
>> will be maintained independently, just like now for 4.3 and 4.4.
>>
>
> Sorry, I don't get it. Now: 4.4 was created and translations from 4.3
> appeared there.
> Future: Which translations will appear in 4.5 when it is created - from
> 4.4 or from master? Translations of the same strings can differ between
> them.


Yes me too. Shopie´s explanation make it even more difficult to understand
the procedure.



>
>
>  Btw, it's a bit ironic that the new workflow is introduced just after
>>> conversion to .ui format is finally completed which should result in a
>>> substantially lower translation workload for 4.5:)) I would tend to
>>> continue with working on branches because master will bring only more
>>> (wasted) work...
>>>
>>
>> Did you suggest the idea then ;) I didn't have it either :)
>>
>
> I was absolutely happy with working on branches, this was not complaint,
> just a side note:))
>
>  P. S.: Any news about Amagama update? It would be extremely handy for
>>> current help translation.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately Dwayne was traveling. I'll ping him again tomorrow. And
>> yes, it would make a lot of people happy.
>> Cheers
>> Sophie
>>
>>
> OK, thanks!
>
> Stanislav
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Olivier Hallot]

On 12/12/2014 08:18, Sérgio Marques wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't get it. Now: 4.4 was created and translations from 4.3
>> > appeared there.
>> > Future: Which translations will appear in 4.5 when it is created - from
>> > 4.4 or from master? Translations of the same strings can differ between
>> > them.
> 
> Yes me too. Shopie´s explanation make it even more difficult to understand
> the procedure.
> 
> 
> 

Since I do my own compilation, for me it will mean that all strings will
be updated periodically in pootle under the "master" branch. So I will
get the updates once in a day/week/month, for example.

The number of strings on a monthly basis are expected to be lower than
on updated once in a half-year for a major release.

Those who will translate the master branch can check the results with
the nighly builds.

when it comes to branch for a new release, a snapshot of the master
translation will be taken and named release X.Y. Then all translation of
the release follows. Like with developers, a fix in a translation on a
branch shall be fixed also in master branch.

This scheme does not means we will get less work, it means we will get
more time to translate a big, hopefully incremental, chuck of new strings.

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Comunidade LibreOffice
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

That's great, people which use master for translation will be our canary 
birds!
If devs start changing caps, ', ... etc, please warn us so we can spam 
them. :)



12.12.2014 u 11:54, Olivier Hallot je napisao/la:


On 12/12/2014 08:18, Sérgio Marques wrote:

Sorry, I don't get it. Now: 4.4 was created and translations from 4.3

appeared there.
Future: Which translations will appear in 4.5 when it is created - from
4.4 or from master? Translations of the same strings can differ between
them.

Yes me too. Shopie´s explanation make it even more difficult to understand
the procedure.




Since I do my own compilation, for me it will mean that all strings will
be updated periodically in pootle under the "master" branch. So I will
get the updates once in a day/week/month, for example.

The number of strings on a monthly basis are expected to be lower than
on updated once in a half-year for a major release.

Those who will translate the master branch can check the results with
the nighly builds.

when it comes to branch for a new release, a snapshot of the master
translation will be taken and named release X.Y. Then all translation of
the release follows. Like with developers, a fix in a translation on a
branch shall be fixed also in master branch.

This scheme does not means we will get less work, it means we will get
more time to translate a big, hopefully incremental, chuck of new strings.




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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Stanislav Horáček]

Dne 12.12.2014 v 11:54 Olivier Hallot napsal(a):



On 12/12/2014 08:18, Sérgio Marques wrote:

Sorry, I don't get it. Now: 4.4 was created and translations from 4.3

appeared there.
Future: Which translations will appear in 4.5 when it is created - from
4.4 or from master? Translations of the same strings can differ between
them.


Yes me too. Shopie´s explanation make it even more difficult to understand
the procedure.





Since I do my own compilation, for me it will mean that all strings will
be updated periodically in pootle under the "master" branch. So I will
get the updates once in a day/week/month, for example.

The number of strings on a monthly basis are expected to be lower than
on updated once in a half-year for a major release.

Those who will translate the master branch can check the results with
the nighly builds.

when it comes to branch for a new release, a snapshot of the master
translation will be taken and named release X.Y. Then all translation of
the release follows. Like with developers, a fix in a translation on a
branch shall be fixed also in master branch.


This workflow means that everyone is forced to work on master - 
otherwise it is needed to translate the same strings again and again in 
branches which makes no sense.


And that's why I am confused - because we were assured that it will be 
possible to choose between working on master and working on branches.




This scheme does not means we will get less work, it means we will get
more time to translate a big, hopefully incremental, chuck of new strings.



Keeping master updated always means more work and it is the reason why I 
think that each team should decide if they want to use master or not.


Best regards,
Stanislav

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Michael Bauer]

Could someone please explain what's currently proposed in terms that 
avoid terms like 'master' There are a lot of localizers who work on the 
basis of 'I see a string, I translate it' who aren't necessarily 
familiar with masters and branches and whatnots but since this will 
affect localizers, this should be explained in simple terms. A lot of 
the people I support off-list wouldn't be able to make that choice 
knowing what they're getting themselves in for.


Or let me rephrase that as a question. Does the current proposal
- minimize retranslation work by not presenting localizer with hundreds 
of retranslations when the English source goes from a formatted 
something to an unformatted something or back again?
- present the localizers with stable strings i.e. strings which are 
likely in their final form for use in the UI?


Michael

Sgrìobh Stanislav Horáček na leanas 12/12/2014 aig 11:45:


Keeping master updated always means more work and it is the reason why 
I think that each team should decide if they want to use master or not.


Best regards,
Stanislav 



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

12.12.2014 u 12:45, Stanislav Horáček je napisao/la:


This workflow means that everyone is forced to work on master - 
otherwise it is needed to translate the same strings again and again 
in branches which makes no sense.


And that's why I am confused - because we were assured that it will be 
possible to choose between working on master and working on branches.





In my head is like this:
- Master is updated every day in pootle, but only source strings. If you 
translate something, it will stick, but only if dev doesn't change 
source string again (which is possible since it's work in progress).
- When 6 months passes, everything is moved to "stable" branch, 
including translations.


This is where is gets tricky. How do you transfer translations between 
master and stable?
What if I updated some translations only in stable? Do they get 
backported to master?


Anyway, as long as they don't delete my translations in stable, I don't 
have anything against master branch, but I will probably not use it.


Mihovil

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

12.12.2014 u 12:53, Michael Bauer je napisao/la:


- minimize retranslation work by not presenting localizer with 
hundreds of retranslations when the English source goes from a 
formatted something to an unformatted something or back again?


No. But you will see it before anyone else. :)

- present the localizers with stable strings i.e. strings which are 
likely in their final form for use in the UI?



No, quite oposite. More unstable strings since master is "work is 
progress" branch, lots of changes.


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Michael Bauer]

Then what on earth do we gain by this 'new' approach? Is the idea that 
some very active locales like German will spot problems on master fast 
and maybe raise the issue before it hits stable strings?


Michael

Sgrìobh Mihovil Stanic na leanas 12/12/2014 aig 11:58:


12.12.2014 u 12:53, Michael Bauer je napisao/la:


- minimize retranslation work by not presenting localizer with 
hundreds of retranslations when the English source goes from a 
formatted something to an unformatted something or back again?


No. But you will see it before anyone else. :)

- present the localizers with stable strings i.e. strings which are 
likely in their final form for use in the UI?



No, quite oposite. More unstable strings since master is "work is 
progress" branch, lots of changes.




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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Sérgio Marques]

2014-12-12 11:56 GMT+00:00 Mihovil Stanic :
>
>
> 12.12.2014 u 12:45, Stanislav Horáček je napisao/la:
>
>>
>> This workflow means that everyone is forced to work on master - otherwise
>> it is needed to translate the same strings again and again in branches
>> which makes no sense.
>>
>> And that's why I am confused - because we were assured that it will be
>> possible to choose between working on master and working on branches.
>>
>>
>>
> In my head is like this:
> - Master is updated every day in pootle, but only source strings. If you
> translate something, it will stick, but only if dev doesn't change source
> string again (which is possible since it's work in progress).
> - When 6 months passes, everything is moved to "stable" branch, including
> translations.
>
> This is where is gets tricky. How do you transfer translations between
> master and stable?

What if I updated some translations only in stable? Do they get backported
> to master?
>


That is exactly my problem. How do they get merged?

Let´s see. I don´t want to work on master so I don´t. But between releases,
let´s assume 4.5 and 4.4, I´m working on 4.4 only. But there is a master
project in pootle. So if 4.5 is built upon master, changes I´ve made in 4.4
branch will not be in 4.5. And I will have to do it all and over again? But
I don´t keep a journal with changed strings and I supposed not many people
do. And even if I manage to keep a journal, which i don´t want,isn´t this
worse than what we have right now?

On the other hand, if changes made on 4.4 branch make it their way to
master and back to 4.5 branch that´s ok.

But, to make it even more complicated, what happens if we work on master
and 4.4 branch? I change on master some strings that are from 4.4 branch
and don´t update 4.4? When strings from 4.4 make their way to master
(assuming 4.4->master->4.5), strings changed in master will be replaced by
ones in 4.4 or won´t they. I don´t know, it´s very unclear to me.




>
> Anyway, as long as they don't delete my translations in stable, I don't
> have anything against master branch, but I will probably not use it.
>
> Mihovil
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Sérgio Marques]

2014-12-12 11:45 GMT+00:00 Stanislav Horáček :
>
> Dne 12.12.2014 v 11:54 Olivier Hallot napsal(a):
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/2014 08:18, Sérgio Marques wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, I don't get it. Now: 4.4 was created and translations from 4.3

> appeared there.
> Future: Which translations will appear in 4.5 when it is created - from
> 4.4 or from master? Translations of the same strings can differ between
> them.
>

>>> Yes me too. Shopie´s explanation make it even more difficult to
>>> understand
>>> the procedure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Since I do my own compilation, for me it will mean that all strings will
>> be updated periodically in pootle under the "master" branch. So I will
>> get the updates once in a day/week/month, for example.
>>
>> The number of strings on a monthly basis are expected to be lower than
>> on updated once in a half-year for a major release.
>>
>> Those who will translate the master branch can check the results with
>> the nighly builds.
>>
>> when it comes to branch for a new release, a snapshot of the master
>> translation will be taken and named release X.Y. Then all translation of
>> the release follows. Like with developers, a fix in a translation on a
>> branch shall be fixed also in master branch.
>>
>
> This workflow means that everyone is forced to work on master - otherwise
> it is needed to translate the same strings again and again in branches
> which makes no sense.
>
> And that's why I am confused - because we were assured that it will be
> possible to choose between working on master and working on branches.
>
>
>> This scheme does not means we will get less work, it means we will get
>> more time to translate a big, hopefully incremental, chuck of new strings.
>>
>>
> Keeping master updated always means more work and it is the reason why I
> think that each team should decide if they want to use master or not.
>


I tottaly agree with you. In fact, a while ago Shopie asked us if we wanted
a master branch for our language. And my reply was very clear. NO.

So why the hell someone decided to ignore what I and others told her?

Where is the need to create a master branch for ALL languages even If we
don´t want it? That will give more work to Cloph to create it and probably
Christian will also have more work this way. And from what I can understand
from this messages is that most of the translators don´t want a master
branch.


>
> Best regards,
> Stanislav
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

12.12.2014 u 15:04, Sérgio Marques je napisao/la:

So why the hell someone decided to ignore what I and others told her?


Because you should be against something upfront. If it doesn't affect 
your current workflow, why do you care?

As I understood it, you will have option to use it or not use it.
Don't use it.

Mihovil


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Sérgio Marques]

2014-12-12 14:11 GMT+00:00 Mihovil Stanic :
>
>
> 12.12.2014 u 15:04, Sérgio Marques je napisao/la:
>
>> So why the hell someone decided to ignore what I and others told her?
>>
>
> Because you should be against something upfront. If it doesn't affect your
> current workflow, why do you care?
>

I care because I still didn´t understood how the merge between branches
will be. So, for that reason, I´m still unsure if it will affect my work or
not.


As I understood it, you will have option to use it or not use it.
> Don't use it.
>
> Mihovil
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

12.12.2014 u 16:00, Sérgio Marques je napisao/la:

Because you should be against something upfront. If it doesn't affect your
current workflow, why do you care?


I care because I still didn´t understood how the merge between branches
will be. So, for that reason, I´m still unsure if it will affect my work or
not.


As I understood it, you will have option to use it or not use it.


Oh, that was meant to be "Because you shouldn't..." :)
Anyway, I think they will take your concerns into account when they 
decide to implement master branch on pootle.


Mihovil

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Stanislav, *,

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Stanislav Horáček
 wrote:
>
> the new workflow is a bit unclear for me. If I work only in branches, let's
> say in 4.5, does it mean that
> - changes from 4.5 branch will be ported back to master (if so, when?),

No. Nothing will be merged to master from the other branches. And
nothing will be merged from master to the other branches.

> or
> - changes in 4.5 branch will not affect the next 4.6 branch?

Yes. 4.2 translations don't affect 4.3 translations, 4.3 translations
don't affect 4.4 translations, and 4.4 translations won't affect 4.5

> Btw, it's a bit ironic that the new workflow is introduced just after
> conversion to .ui format is finally completed which should result in a
> substantially lower translation workload for 4.5:)) I would tend to continue
> with working on branches because master will bring only more (wasted)
> work...

You can think of master as translation for 4.5 There's nothing special
about master.

regular code workflow:
 __ master
\  \  \  \
 \  \  \  \__libreoffice-4-5
  \  \  \__libreoffice-4-4
   \  \__libreoffice-4-3
\__libreoffice-4-2

All branches were once "master", and then were split up to refine stuff.

Translations were special project, as basically there was no "in
between" updates. Translations did jump from 4-2 to 4-3, from 4-3 to
4-4 without any intermediate updates in between.

Master based workflow would mean that when libreoffice-4-5 is created,
the translations of master will be copied over and reused for that,
and master then would be ongoing for libreoffice-4-6

What is benefit for translators?
No rush needed when libreoffice-4-5 is about to be released, as you
have all the time preparing the translations on master. All you have
to translate when 4-5 is about to released is the changes that are
done very late in the release-process.
Having translations for master also allows to create daily builds with
the translations more easily, so you can check translations in the
daily builds more easily.

Drawback for translators:
If you have rather incomplete translations for 4-4, then you need to
do the changes in both 4-4 and in master. Or just ignore master and
only focus on 4-4 - but then of course you have to translate all the
stuff that changed in between when the 4-5 release is split-off.
translating both shouldn't be too much work, as you can just reuse the
proposals of the translation-memory.

And all those *##* who keep ranting about the changing caps and
similar: It has been made pretty clear already that any such change
would be handled automatically with no need for retranslating. Shut
the f* up/write your stuff in other threads if you don't want to
participate in the current topic.

I'm puzzled where the perception comes from that on master you
suddenly have thousands of additional strings that you wouldn't have
to translate in the current process as well.

To ask some of the on-topic questions:
* why all languages, not just some
   → less work. It's lot easier to just process all languages at once
and don't need to think about picking individual languages.
   → that being said: You're not forced to use it. If you don't
translate on master, then you'll just have to translate all at once
shortly before release (like it's the case currently).

* master translations will only be used for the daily/snapshot builds,
not for releases. No migration from master to 4-4 or 4-3 will happen.
If you want to have the change in the release-branches, you need to
update the 4-4/4-3 translation yourself.
* master translations will be copied to 4-5 when it is due, and then
4-5 will be used for the 4.5.x release builds, and master will become
the ongoing translation for 4.6

* how frequent will there be updates
  → no more than once a moth
   Translations/dialogs/etc don't change so frequently, so there won't
be changes all over the place.

* what if I don't want to use master
  → then make sure you don't actually do stuff in master, as then it
will be overriden when 4-5 is branched off
  → for those languages who chose not to make use of master, shortly
before the branch-off of 4-5 the translations of 4-4 will be copied to
master (override current master translation) and updated against
templates.
In other words: If you don't want to use master: Don't use master.
Changes you do on master will be overridden when you request copying
from 4-4. So either do any merges yourself, or don't complain
afterwards.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Questions about strings

[Jesper Hertel]

I believe the strings can be found by everybody using a search in the
Comments field for the codes given below. Check "Comments" and "Exact
match" when searching. The search is very fast when Exact match is checked.

But yes, it would be easier if everybody just had access to the greek
translation at https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/  :-)

2014-12-11 13:50 GMT+01:00 ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ Σ :
>
> High,
>

Hi Δημητρησ (Dimitrio, right?),


> The questions are:

a) The string ? in (String 29043393
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/source/ui/misc.po#unit=29043393
> >)
> (glossary.src STR_QUERY_DELETE_GROUP2 string.text)

is used as the simple
> question mark or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?


This is code 8aDAD


b) The Semicolons in (String 29044489
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=29044489
> >
> ) (converttexttable.ui semicolons label string.text) is used as the simple
> semicolon or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code D4FLM



> c) The . in (String 40059917
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=40059917
> >)
> (insertcaption.ui num_separator_edit text string.text) is used as the
> simple full stop or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code 8aDAD



> d) The . in (String 48071054
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=48071054
> >)
> (optcaptionpage.ui numseparator text string.text) is used as the simple
> full stop or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code cAQbj


> e) There are, too, two-three cases - I don't recall now - for the separator
> of thousounds and decimals, where in French it is used the same symbol as
> in English (, .) and in German (. ,). What is the right?
>

As Sophie already mentioned,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark#Examples_of_use mentions the use
in different countries. Note that several different notations can be valid
for the same country.

According to that source, it seems like the French version of the SI style
is valid in both Germany and France:

1 234 567,89

But this is also valid in Germany:

1.234.567,89

f) I think that those cases should be more clear.
>

I think it would be easier to do something about with if you could mention
the specific cases when you see them again. :-) Searching for either "." or
"," would give too many results.


> Regards
>
>
Regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Mihovil Stanic]

12.12.2014. u 21:42, Christian Lohmaier je napisao/la:
In other words: If you don't want to use master: Don't use master. 
Changes you do on master will be overridden when you request copying 
from 4-4. So either do any merges yourself, or don't complain 
afterwards. ciao Christian 


Since I didn't understand this part, can you please dumb it down for me, 
please.


1. I work on 4.4 and not on master - what happens when 4.5 becomes stable?
2. I work on master and not 4.4 - what happens when 4.5 becomes stable?
3. I make changes to both master and 4.4 - what happens when 4.5 becomes 
stable?


Mihovil

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh Christian Lohmaier na leanas 12/12/2014 aig 20:42:

And all those *##* who keep ranting about the changing caps and
similar: It has been made pretty clear already that any such change
would be handled automatically with no need for retranslating. Shut
the f* up/write your stuff in other threads if you don't want to
participate in the current topic.
Errr... please calm down? Given that this seems to have grown out of the 
issue around precisely that, you can't blame people for thinking these 
are connected. I am certainly one of those who participated in the 
original complaint about the way those were handled and as best as I can 
tell, this seemed to be (Sophie's) propsed solution. Suddently it isn't. 
So fine, maybe this is just a topic that coincides with that other 
debate and has nothing at all to do with the solution to the nonsense 
around cosmetic changes to en-US but that *certainly* did not come 
across clearly in that case.

In other words: If you don't want to use master: Don't use master.
Changes you do on master will be overridden when you request copying
from 4-4. So either do any merges yourself, or don't complain
afterwards.
How are we going to clearly explain this to all the translators on 
Pootle within the Pootle interface because not all of them are on this 
list? Never mind the issue of how many of them understand this discussion.


Michael

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes? (was Workflow based on master)

[Khaled Hosny]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:00:45PM +, Michael Bauer wrote:
> the nonsense around cosmetic changes to en-US

As a localiser, I find it worrying that “localisers” think that using
correct capitalisation or punctuation marks “nonsense cosmetics”, really
scary. I can understand people being annoying about changes in source
that does not affect the final translation, but the apparent total
disregard of those “cosmetics” (they are not) is not something I except
from people whose job is to adapt software interface to the proper rules
and costumes of there languages and should generally know better.

Regards,
Khaled

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes? (was Workflow based on master)

[Michael Bauer]

True but what gets my goat is that many of these are *totally* 
arbitrary. Case in point, sentence case vs title case. Unfortunately 
this debate comes at a time when Microsoft has gone *exactly* 180° the 
other way (going forward) compared to LibreOffice. So that makes it 
arbitrary.


That's even without considering the fact that Nagari, CJK and so on 
don't even have case...


If Gaelic has to implement a change in convention then I implement that 
without affecting 100 locales. Would be nice if the source for projects 
like LO worked the same way because whether English uses formatted or 
unformatted quotes or sentence vs title case does not affect how the 
other 100 locales localizer. That's not disregard for conventions. It's 
disregard to the time I donate as a localizer.


Michael

Sgrìobh Khaled Hosny na leanas 13/12/2014 aig 00:22:

As a localiser, I find it worrying that “localisers” think that using
correct capitalisation or punctuation marks “nonsense cosmetics”, really
scary. I can understand people being annoying about changes in source
that does not affect the final translation, but the apparent total
disregard of those “cosmetics” (they are not) is not something I except
from people whose job is to adapt software interface to the proper rules
and costumes of there languages and should generally know better.

Regards,
Khaled


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Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes? (was Workflow based on master)

[Yury Tarasievich]

Those changes, while possibly worthwhile from 
en_US perspective, are not related to what 
localised interface looks like. Since version 2 
the workload in ui strings might easily 
constitute +100% of initial 25k. Did the ui 
change that much? No.


Yury

On 12/13/2014 03:22 AM, Khaled Hosny wrote:

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:00:45PM +, Michael Bauer wrote:

the nonsense around cosmetic changes to en-US


As a localiser, I find it worrying that “localisers” think that using
correct capitalisation or punctuation marks “nonsense cosmetics”, really
scary. I can understand people being annoying about changes in source

...

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes? (was Workflow based on master)

[Yury Tarasievich]

Not so feasible, I think.

Work based on another translation would very 
likely mean missing important nuances. 
Ironically, this was the case with English (!) 
in times of OO 2.0, when it was somewhat more 
instructive to look into German strings 
(originating from StarOffice) for the precise 
meaning of some financial maths terms.


Yury

On 12/13/2014 08:35 AM, Tom Davies wrote:


Earlier there was a suggestion of creating some
sort of buffer-language between English (US) and
all the other languages.

Is there a language that doesn't have so many
'little' changes that affect so much?  One that
gets all the translations done really fast?
Perhaps Spanish, Portugese (Br), German, French,
Italian?

If so might that be a better language to use as
the base-line to translate from?

...

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