Thanks for the info Brian. I'll keep digging. Later...
Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On 2013-05-26, at 9:09 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey guys, Just wanted to chime in as I am having the problem of moving a > mailbox on the iMac. Not sure why this would be related to a desktop or > laptop, but stranger things have occurred with VO. > On May 26, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbur...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> Just for fun, I went downstairs and tried this on my iMac server. The iMac >> is running the same fully updated version of MacOS, same fully updated >> version of Mail and has the Magic Trackpad instead of a mouse. Low and >> behold, it worked like a charm on the iMac. All my testing over the last >> while was on my 15" MacBook Pro where it wasn't working properly. I'll try >> again at work tomorrow on my MacPro to see if the problems are more related >> to the MBP/laptop but not so present on the Desktop units. Then comes >> trying to figure out why. >> >> I'll let you know how things go. >> >> Have a good one. >> >> Later... >> >> Tim Kilburn >> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >> >> On 2013-05-26, at 10:10 AM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tim, >>> I don't use Trackpad commander either. I'd love to get to the bottom of >>> this as it's baffling me as to the hit or miss nature of this process and >>> how some folks just can't get it to work at all. >>> >>> >>> Take Care >>> >>> John D. Panarese >>> Director >>> Mac for the Blind >>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>> >>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION >>> >>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>> >>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 26, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi John, >>>> >>>> I, too, have all cursors tracking each other, but use Grouping in >>>> web-pages. I do not use the Trackpad commander for any of this as I'm >>>> just too used to doing things the keyboard way on my Mac. I will change >>>> things to Dom navigation just for fun to see if that makes any difference. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your response and insight. >>>> >>>> Later... >>>> >>>> Tim Kilburn >>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >>>> >>>> On 2013-05-26, at 9:57 AM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Tim, >>>>> I have the standard view for Mail. I have all my cursors tracking one >>>>> another and I have nothing special changed in the Web category. I use >>>>> DOM order for navigation. I suggested the move window menu because many >>>>> people are not aware you can do this. I completely forgot about it until >>>>> I stumbled across those commands while training someone who asked me >>>>> about VoiceOver's ability to move objects and windows around the screen. >>>>> >>>>> Oddly enough, I spent some time messing with this and it's hit or >>>>> miss. I can consistently get it to work sometimes, but other times, I >>>>> can't seem to drop the mailbox onto the favorites bar. I need to try >>>>> this with someone sighted here so I can find out what might be going on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take Care >>>>> >>>>> John D. Panarese >>>>> Director >>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>> >>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION >>>>> >>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>> >>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 26, 2013, at 11:19 AM, Tim Kilburn <kilbur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm wondering >>>>>> >>>>>> • what your VO settings are, specifically navigation and web. >>>>>> • what view you're Mail is in. >>>>>> • Is your Preview pane active or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have made this work on occasion but after seeing others frustration in >>>>>> this thread was attempting to play with things a little to determine why >>>>>> things might be not working for them. In my testing, I was unable to >>>>>> make the Drag and Drop to Favourites work for me either. Kind of >>>>>> interesting considering that I did make it work in the past and have >>>>>> sent responses assisting others. Anyway, I'll put some notes below on >>>>>> my experiences: >>>>>> >>>>>> • You must Interact with the Mailbox to be able to mark it for Drag and >>>>>> Drop. >>>>>> • Items that are expandable usually cannot be dragged around. These are >>>>>> items such as Sent mail that is expandable due to the fact that you have >>>>>> multiple Mailboxes within the Mail app. >>>>>> • When I mark something to drag, focus moves to the Messages Table of >>>>>> that Mailbox, so extra steps of uninteracting must be performed prior to >>>>>> moving over to the Favourites bar. I tried changing VO cursor settings >>>>>> to affect this with no real success. >>>>>> • VO marks the item, drags it but then says that it was unable to drop >>>>>> it on the Favourites bar. >>>>>> • I already have eight items in my Favourite bar so thought that maybe >>>>>> that was a limit, so I pulled one item out. No change in behaviour >>>>>> although I did have to ask my daughter to put the item back in because I >>>>>> couldn't get the Drag and Drop to work properly. >>>>>> • No joy whether I use the old fashioned VO-cmd-space Drag and Drop >>>>>> method instead of the VO-comma/VO-period method. >>>>>> • In fact, I had to restart my MBP at one point as my daughter said that >>>>>> the Trackpad button wasn't responding properly even when she was trying >>>>>> things, probably got messed up with all my on/off playing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any specifics that you have that could assist in this would be >>>>>> appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a good one. >>>>>> >>>>>> Later... >>>>>> >>>>>> Tim Kilburn >>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2013-05-25, at 10:37 AM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There are VO commands to move windows around. If you use >>>>>>> VO-shift-accent , you will access the menus for dong this. You might >>>>>>> want to experiment with them to see if it helps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take Care >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John D. Panarese >>>>>>> Director >>>>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>>>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:39 AM, Jürgen Fleger <apple-engl...@fleger.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just for fun I tried again to move a mailbox to the favoritesbar in >>>>>>>> Mountain Lion OS X 10.8.3 by using VO + komma. I closed the preview >>>>>>>> pan, maximized the window and pressed VO + Shift + F2 to get the >>>>>>>> window even more to the foreground. It didn't help at all. The >>>>>>>> message: the window could be hidden by something. >>>>>>>> So Brian, unfortunately you are not alone. And I agree that Apple >>>>>>>> could have and should have fixed a whole bunch of issues which >>>>>>>> occurred since Lion and went on in Mountain Lion. >>>>>>>> The only way to bring Apple to see and fix these issues is to send >>>>>>>> e-mails to >>>>>>>> accessibil...@apple.com >>>>>>>> as often as we can and describe the issues as detailed as we can. >>>>>>>> That's my opinion. >>>>>>>> All the best >>>>>>>> Jürgen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 25.05.2013 um 01:39 schrieb Ricardo Walker <rwalker...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just curious, do you have the preview pane open in Mail? I don't, >>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if this might be why your having difficulty moving a >>>>>>>>> mailbox to favorites, an I'm not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>>>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>>>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey John, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I did exactly what you said to do, and yes, the favorites bar >>>>>>>>>> was showing, spent hours on this trying everything VO comma, and the >>>>>>>>>> old way VO shift space bar, and couldn't get anything to work. >>>>>>>>>> Finally, I gave up and had a sighted person come over and do it in 2 >>>>>>>>>> seconds. These are the frustrating things with VO, and would be nice >>>>>>>>>> if Apple would address. As far as I believe, there hasn't been one >>>>>>>>>> single improvement to VO since Mountain Lion rolled out, and I can >>>>>>>>>> only get the same answer from Apple accessibility so many times on >>>>>>>>>> several issues. We are aware of the problem, but can't say when it >>>>>>>>>> will be fixed. Something so simple as them reversing the web spots >>>>>>>>>> so when you click VO command right bracket takes you right instead >>>>>>>>>> of left, would have been nice. If they can't fix that which to me >>>>>>>>>> seems something very basic to fix, and worked correctly in Lion, I >>>>>>>>>> don't put a lot of stock in any VO improvements until the next >>>>>>>>>> operating system comes out. I get that only a very small percentage >>>>>>>>>> of people use VO, and that Apple cannot commit a great number of >>>>>>>>>> resources to it, but just be honest, instead of treating us like >>>>>>>>>> idiots waiting for a fix. Don't get me wrong I do appreciate Apple's >>>>>>>>>> commitment to accessibility, it's the leading us to think there will >>>>>>>>>> be improvements that annoys me. >>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 4:05 PM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Brian, >>>>>>>>>>> It isn't easy, but adding mailboxes to the favorites bar is doable >>>>>>>>>>> with VoiceOver. You must be sure the favorites bar is showing >>>>>>>>>>> first off, and then, be sure you mark the mailbox for drag and drop >>>>>>>>>>> and then navigate to the favorites bar itself to drop the mailbox. >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you need to interact with the favorites bar though to >>>>>>>>>>> drop the mailbox. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Take Care >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese >>>>>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>>>>>>>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and >>>>>>>>>>> LION >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Nicholas, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You must be one of the very few lucky ones to never have had an I >>>>>>>>>>>> hate my mac day. I tried exactly what you suggested, even quit >>>>>>>>>>>> every application closed everything and restarted my mac, then >>>>>>>>>>>> opened mail first after a restart, and still got the message VO >>>>>>>>>>>> cannot drag the item as the item might be hidden. I then did >>>>>>>>>>>> everything the old fashioned way called someone who could see and >>>>>>>>>>>> had them come over. They confirmed that nothing was blocking the >>>>>>>>>>>> mailbox I was trying to move, and I was still getting the same >>>>>>>>>>>> message. I had them drag and drop the mailbox using the mouse, and >>>>>>>>>>>> they were able to do it in 2 seconds, so yes, this is obviously a >>>>>>>>>>>> bug with Voiceover which leads to having a I hate my mac day, as I >>>>>>>>>>>> hate not being able to do something so simple that should take me >>>>>>>>>>>> two seconds. >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Nicholas Parsons >>>>>>>>>>>> <mr.nicholas.pars...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had an "I hate Mac day" myself. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When it says something is hidden, I think it usually means >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's some other window or application blocking that item on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the screen. Using VoiceOver it is of course very difficult to get >>>>>>>>>>>>> an idea of what this might be. So what usually works for me is >>>>>>>>>>>>> just closing that window or application and opening it again. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also try closing any other windows you might have open. Use the >>>>>>>>>>>>> windows chooser (VO-F2 twice quickly) to see if there are any >>>>>>>>>>>>> other windows or notifications open. Try quitting all other >>>>>>>>>>>>> applications before you try dragging and dropping again. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The commands you're using should work. VO-COMMA and VO-PERIOD in >>>>>>>>>>>>> full screen mode nearly always works for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best of luck. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an 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