Hi John, I, too, have all cursors tracking each other, but use Grouping in web-pages. I do not use the Trackpad commander for any of this as I'm just too used to doing things the keyboard way on my Mac. I will change things to Dom navigation just for fun to see if that makes any difference.
Thanks for your response and insight. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On 2013-05-26, at 9:57 AM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Tim, > I have the standard view for Mail. I have all my cursors tracking one > another and I have nothing special changed in the Web category. I use DOM > order for navigation. I suggested the move window menu because many people > are not aware you can do this. I completely forgot about it until I stumbled > across those commands while training someone who asked me about VoiceOver's > ability to move objects and windows around the screen. > > Oddly enough, I spent some time messing with this and it's hit or miss. I > can consistently get it to work sometimes, but other times, I can't seem to > drop the mailbox onto the favorites bar. I need to try this with someone > sighted here so I can find out what might be going on. > > > Take Care > > John D. Panarese > Director > Mac for the Blind > Tel, (631) 724-4479 > Email, j...@macfortheblind.com > Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com > > APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION > > AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE > > MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT > > > > > On May 26, 2013, at 11:19 AM, Tim Kilburn <kilbur...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> John, >> >> I'm wondering >> >> • what your VO settings are, specifically navigation and web. >> • what view you're Mail is in. >> • Is your Preview pane active or not. >> >> I have made this work on occasion but after seeing others frustration in >> this thread was attempting to play with things a little to determine why >> things might be not working for them. In my testing, I was unable to make >> the Drag and Drop to Favourites work for me either. Kind of interesting >> considering that I did make it work in the past and have sent responses >> assisting others. Anyway, I'll put some notes below on my experiences: >> >> • You must Interact with the Mailbox to be able to mark it for Drag and Drop. >> • Items that are expandable usually cannot be dragged around. These are >> items such as Sent mail that is expandable due to the fact that you have >> multiple Mailboxes within the Mail app. >> • When I mark something to drag, focus moves to the Messages Table of that >> Mailbox, so extra steps of uninteracting must be performed prior to moving >> over to the Favourites bar. I tried changing VO cursor settings to affect >> this with no real success. >> • VO marks the item, drags it but then says that it was unable to drop it on >> the Favourites bar. >> • I already have eight items in my Favourite bar so thought that maybe that >> was a limit, so I pulled one item out. No change in behaviour although I >> did have to ask my daughter to put the item back in because I couldn't get >> the Drag and Drop to work properly. >> • No joy whether I use the old fashioned VO-cmd-space Drag and Drop method >> instead of the VO-comma/VO-period method. >> • In fact, I had to restart my MBP at one point as my daughter said that the >> Trackpad button wasn't responding properly even when she was trying things, >> probably got messed up with all my on/off playing. >> >> Any specifics that you have that could assist in this would be appreciated. >> >> Have a good one. >> >> Later... >> >> Tim Kilburn >> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >> >> On 2013-05-25, at 10:37 AM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> There are VO commands to move windows around. If you use VO-shift-accent >>> , you will access the menus for dong this. You might want to experiment >>> with them to see if it helps. >>> >>> >>> Take Care >>> >>> John D. Panarese >>> Director >>> Mac for the Blind >>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>> >>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION >>> >>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>> >>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:39 AM, Jürgen Fleger <apple-engl...@fleger.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Just for fun I tried again to move a mailbox to the favoritesbar in >>>> Mountain Lion OS X 10.8.3 by using VO + komma. I closed the preview pan, >>>> maximized the window and pressed VO + Shift + F2 to get the window even >>>> more to the foreground. It didn't help at all. The message: the window >>>> could be hidden by something. >>>> So Brian, unfortunately you are not alone. And I agree that Apple could >>>> have and should have fixed a whole bunch of issues which occurred since >>>> Lion and went on in Mountain Lion. >>>> The only way to bring Apple to see and fix these issues is to send e-mails >>>> to >>>> accessibil...@apple.com >>>> as often as we can and describe the issues as detailed as we can. That's >>>> my opinion. >>>> All the best >>>> Jürgen >>>> >>>> Am 25.05.2013 um 01:39 schrieb Ricardo Walker <rwalker...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Just curious, do you have the preview pane open in Mail? I don't, I'm >>>>> wondering if this might be why your having difficulty moving a mailbox to >>>>> favorites, an I'm not? >>>>> >>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>> >>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey John, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I did exactly what you said to do, and yes, the favorites bar was >>>>>> showing, spent hours on this trying everything VO comma, and the old way >>>>>> VO shift space bar, and couldn't get anything to work. Finally, I gave >>>>>> up and had a sighted person come over and do it in 2 seconds. These are >>>>>> the frustrating things with VO, and would be nice if Apple would >>>>>> address. As far as I believe, there hasn't been one single improvement >>>>>> to VO since Mountain Lion rolled out, and I can only get the same answer >>>>>> from Apple accessibility so many times on several issues. We are aware >>>>>> of the problem, but can't say when it will be fixed. Something so simple >>>>>> as them reversing the web spots so when you click VO command right >>>>>> bracket takes you right instead of left, would have been nice. If they >>>>>> can't fix that which to me seems something very basic to fix, and worked >>>>>> correctly in Lion, I don't put a lot of stock in any VO improvements >>>>>> until the next operating system comes out. I get that only a very small >>>>>> percentage of people use VO, and that Apple cannot commit a great number >>>>>> of resources to it, but just be honest, instead of treating us like >>>>>> idiots waiting for a fix. Don't get me wrong I do appreciate Apple's >>>>>> commitment to accessibility, it's the leading us to think there will be >>>>>> improvements that annoys me. >>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 4:05 PM, John Panarese <jpanar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Brian, >>>>>>> It isn't easy, but adding mailboxes to the favorites bar is doable with >>>>>>> VoiceOver. You must be sure the favorites bar is showing first off, >>>>>>> and then, be sure you mark the mailbox for drag and drop and then >>>>>>> navigate to the favorites bar itself to drop the mailbox. I don't >>>>>>> think you need to interact with the favorites bar though to drop the >>>>>>> mailbox. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take Care >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John D. Panarese >>>>>>> Director >>>>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>>>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX Mountain Lion and LION >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey Nicholas, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You must be one of the very few lucky ones to never have had an I hate >>>>>>>> my mac day. I tried exactly what you suggested, even quit every >>>>>>>> application closed everything and restarted my mac, then opened mail >>>>>>>> first after a restart, and still got the message VO cannot drag the >>>>>>>> item as the item might be hidden. I then did everything the old >>>>>>>> fashioned way called someone who could see and had them come over. >>>>>>>> They confirmed that nothing was blocking the mailbox I was trying to >>>>>>>> move, and I was still getting the same message. I had them drag and >>>>>>>> drop the mailbox using the mouse, and they were able to do it in 2 >>>>>>>> seconds, so yes, this is obviously a bug with Voiceover which leads to >>>>>>>> having a I hate my mac day, as I hate not being able to do something >>>>>>>> so simple that should take me two seconds. >>>>>>>> On May 24, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Nicholas Parsons >>>>>>>> <mr.nicholas.pars...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've never had an "I hate Mac day" myself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When it says something is hidden, I think it usually means there's >>>>>>>>> some other window or application blocking that item on the screen. >>>>>>>>> Using VoiceOver it is of course very difficult to get an idea of what >>>>>>>>> this might be. So what usually works for me is just closing that >>>>>>>>> window or application and opening it again. Also try closing any >>>>>>>>> other windows you might have open. Use the windows chooser (VO-F2 >>>>>>>>> twice quickly) to see if there are any other windows or notifications >>>>>>>>> open. Try quitting all other applications before you try dragging and >>>>>>>>> dropping again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The commands you're using should work. VO-COMMA and VO-PERIOD in full >>>>>>>>> screen mode nearly always works for me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best of luck. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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