Definitely, I think that what is called for, and Cara seemed to agree, is a quick start guide written by the user for the user, gosh I sound like a politician.
a few pages long, nothing heavy, just something which gets over the basics. Twitter @neilbarnfather Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eleni Vamvakari Sent: 11 October 2010 15:06 To: MacVisionaries Subject: Re: Can keyboard only navigation ever be... This morning, I discovered that, in the digest mode, I could just go to a particular thread, have it displayed on the page and reply individually to posts. That makes things much easier. At any rate, I think that writing up this quick guide is an excellent idea. Perhaps, we can work on it as a group effort and have it published somewhere so that all VoiceOver users could have it as a resource. I'm one of those who only uses the core programs and I could certainly do with making my time on the Mac more productive and less complicated. Thanks, Eleni Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Mary, > > I suppose this is because I've lived for many years in the sighted PC > Windows environment, so I knew all the keyboard commands firstly, then > installed JAWS when eventually I couldn't see the screen using built in > inversion of colours etc... > > so I have never particularly learnt JAWS key commands, more have continued > to use the existing Windows ones I knew. which work just fine with JAWS. > > I think the issue here, and having discussed it with Cara yesterday for an > hour or so, appears to be that Voice Over's manual pays little to no > reference to the existing built in commands for OSx... > > so therefore I'm learning the more complex VO commands at the get go. now I > understand that these commands are set to give universal control across any > installed application, and this approach makes sense. however, if you're > only ever using Mail, Safari and Pages, then you do not need such diverse > assurances, as Apple's standard commands will not conflict. > > The idea of a second tear of commands for Vo is owing to the assurance that > many third party applications native keyboard commands won't conflict with > standard Mac OSx commands, this makes sense, but if you're only using the > core products isn't necessary to know. > > so what it seems to need is a so to speak quick guide to be written, which > has listed the native commands alongside the VO ones, and really pays > attention to the quick nav feature etc. > > Moving to your point about JAWS and other PC based screen readers doing just > the same, I cannot answer that question, I've never once read the manual for > JAWS, I know I believe 4 key commands for JAWS, and using these and the > arrow keys and the tab key enables me at this time to do everything I do > with my PC. > > Thanks. > > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > Neil Barnfather > Talks List Administrator > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten > Sent: 10 October 2010 22:38 > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Can keyboard only navigation ever be... > > > Neal, you have a good point about the duplicate voiceover commands. I > haven't used JAWS in a while, so things may have changed, but there was a > time when JAWS did the same, taught special JAWS commands where Windows > keyboard commands already existed. Your reference to sighted people using > keyboard commands with a Mac and Windows and you wanting to be on equal > footing with them is interesting. When somebody gives you a osX keyboard > command, why not just try it? My experience with most sighted people, except > really good keyboardists like those I use to work with or programmers who > have been around for a while is that few know any keyboard commands, and > most are totally dependent on the mouse and are lost without it. The fact > that keyboard alternatives are poorly if at all documented in mainstream > help whether for MS or Apple or 3rd party programs does not help. I have > used Windows for a long time, and I have no idea what you are talking about > when you say you do one finger navigation, unless you mean using the up and > down arrows to navigate in a document. Get a keyboard that has a number pad > and use the numpad commander that has been a part of voiceover for a while. > There is also the keyboard commander and there are those built in keyboard > commands some of which you can find and document by looking in the various > menus. > > I agree that one of the areas where Apple's support for voiceover is lacking > is compared with the documentation that comes with my Windows screen reader. > > Not many programs come with thorough manuals, probably because companies > find that not enough people read them. For those of us who do prefer the > written word to hours of podcasts or learning by exploration without an > overview and examples, well, we're more or less out of luck. But I don't see > a difference there between MS and Apple either. Indeed, when it comes to > access-related documentation, Apple has it all over MS these days IMHO. > > Mary Otten > motte...@gmail.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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