Mary, I suppose this is because I've lived for many years in the sighted PC Windows environment, so I knew all the keyboard commands firstly, then installed JAWS when eventually I couldn't see the screen using built in inversion of colours etc...
so I have never particularly learnt JAWS key commands, more have continued to use the existing Windows ones I knew. which work just fine with JAWS. I think the issue here, and having discussed it with Cara yesterday for an hour or so, appears to be that Voice Over's manual pays little to no reference to the existing built in commands for OSx... so therefore I'm learning the more complex VO commands at the get go. now I understand that these commands are set to give universal control across any installed application, and this approach makes sense. however, if you're only ever using Mail, Safari and Pages, then you do not need such diverse assurances, as Apple's standard commands will not conflict. The idea of a second tear of commands for Vo is owing to the assurance that many third party applications native keyboard commands won't conflict with standard Mac OSx commands, this makes sense, but if you're only using the core products isn't necessary to know. so what it seems to need is a so to speak quick guide to be written, which has listed the native commands alongside the VO ones, and really pays attention to the quick nav feature etc. Moving to your point about JAWS and other PC based screen readers doing just the same, I cannot answer that question, I've never once read the manual for JAWS, I know I believe 4 key commands for JAWS, and using these and the arrow keys and the tab key enables me at this time to do everything I do with my PC. Thanks. Twitter @neilbarnfather Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: 10 October 2010 22:38 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Can keyboard only navigation ever be... Neal, you have a good point about the duplicate voiceover commands. I haven't used JAWS in a while, so things may have changed, but there was a time when JAWS did the same, taught special JAWS commands where Windows keyboard commands already existed. Your reference to sighted people using keyboard commands with a Mac and Windows and you wanting to be on equal footing with them is interesting. When somebody gives you a osX keyboard command, why not just try it? My experience with most sighted people, except really good keyboardists like those I use to work with or programmers who have been around for a while is that few know any keyboard commands, and most are totally dependent on the mouse and are lost without it. The fact that keyboard alternatives are poorly if at all documented in mainstream help whether for MS or Apple or 3rd party programs does not help. I have used Windows for a long time, and I have no idea what you are talking about when you say you do one finger navigation, unless you mean using the up and down arrows to navigate in a document. Get a keyboard that has a number pad and use the numpad commander that has been a part of voiceover for a while. There is also the keyboard commander and there are those built in keyboard commands some of which you can find and document by looking in the various menus. I agree that one of the areas where Apple's support for voiceover is lacking is compared with the documentation that comes with my Windows screen reader. Not many programs come with thorough manuals, probably because companies find that not enough people read them. For those of us who do prefer the written word to hours of podcasts or learning by exploration without an overview and examples, well, we're more or less out of luck. But I don't see a difference there between MS and Apple either. Indeed, when it comes to access-related documentation, Apple has it all over MS these days IMHO. Mary Otten motte...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
