Neil, thats is a mouthful. I too am more than a little frustrated with how apple setup voiceover's keys. I had to learn this blind with no support and with a mouse I don't use. its slow going for right now.
as a refrain: I have not used window eyes or jaws. I used to use windows on a separate machine but cannot use that anymore (for now) as I don't have the funds to buy/install JAWS or Windows Eyes. so I have nothing to compare to. the fact that I am typing so soon after complete visual loss is a testament to the technology (and my inability to give up). -Eric On Oct 10, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > Dear All, > > Many of you will have seen me around before on the various lists so no need > for introductions, I've been a PC user now for in excess of 20 years, and > have attempted to make the switch to Mac now 3 times without success. > > The first point I want to make is that this is not for lack of desire upon > my behalf, rather it is my hope that I am simply missing an essential piece > of the puzzle. this missing part though appears, to me at least, to be the > key, the magic link between making a successful jump or not. > > I've heard all the usual shpeal about, it's not like a PC, so you cannot > think of it like that, put everything you've ever learned about screen > readers aside and think differently or a fresh, it's just the learning > curve, stick with it and you'll get there... > > All of which I've tried and failed at... and when I asked an Apple Genius to > watch over me in a store to analyse where I was going wrong, his response, I > don't understand, you've mastered OSx, it has to be Voice Over... > > So here it is, wide open for you, the cream of the switching community to > hopefully answer once and for all. > > In an e-mail to Apple's illusive Accessibility team, I once commented that > if you took 2 PC users, one sighted and one not, removed the mouse from the > sighted user, that the 2 PC users would both use their computers in the same > way. i.e. that the key strokes / commands are all the same. > > However, get 2 Mac users, one sighted one not, remove the mouse from the > sighted user, the 2 users both use the keyboard differently. > > This thus forcing the Mac Voice Over user to learn the screen reader either > before, or alongside, the actual computer and the OS itself. > > This of course not being so, from my perspective anyhow, on the PC, where > both users, keyboard exclusive or not, both use the machine in the same way. > > My biggest hurdle to date is the keyboard commands and their implementation > on the Mac, it's not that they are different, as I can live with that, it's > the same as buying a new HiFi system, the buttons are in different places > and of a different design. > > What I cannot seem to get over is that with a PC, 95% of what I do is one > handed and in 95% of those instances can be achieved with one finger. > leaving my left hand free to handle papers, telephones etc, etc. > > comparatively, with Voice Over and the Mac, I am finding that I have to use > both hands for the most basic level of navigation, and also that many > commands are as a minimal 3 keys to implement. > > Many have suggested work around such as the Magic Track Pad, indeed, this > would in effect make the Mac behave similarly to the iPhone, iPod Touch, and > iPad, all 3 of which I own. > > However, one cannot get over the fact that this detracts from productivity, > or on the surface of it seems to, this being brought about by the user > moving their hand(s) from the keyboard to the track pad and back again. > > *Note* I understand that Mac Book's have the track pad built in, but it's > still relocating your hands from one input device to another and back again. > > So here's the question which really appears to be the initial clincher for > me, is it possible to use a Mac with essentially one hand and even more > importantly one finger for most commands and navigation. > > I would say, to be fair, that' it's the navigation with one hand or one > finger that is the most important thing. all of JAWS commands require two > fingers or more, but it's the navigation that I just cannot get myself > passed. On my PC using JAWS virtually everything I'm doing is one fingered. > > So, is this possible on the Mac...? the caveat to this should be, that I do > not see the point of spending countless hours re-allocating or arranging > existing commands / navigation commands. It seems to me that Voice Over's > biggest hurdle is the Voice Over command keys, Control + Options key, please > forgive me if I missed up Control and Command. > > Please no-one, this is not a that's JAWS this is Voice Over question, this > is a... Can I use Voice Over and the Mac with one hand or better still one > finger for navigation of the Mac itself? > > Setting the record straight at the get go, this is not an Apple slating, I > wish to make the switch, but it has to be because it's as easy or easier, > the fact that Voice Over is more stable is a factor, but not a huge one. > > I do not buy all the security hype, nor the OS enhancements or stability > front. Yes Voice Over is more stable than JAWS / Window Eyes, but > principally because it is part of the operating platform, and not because > its superior or that Mac OSx is. > > This statement about operating platforms may have held some degree of water > back in the days gone by, but with Windows 7, and a decent PC specification, > one can get as much performance and stability out of a PC as a Mac. > moreover, in terms of security, I've never known anyone I know who has a > brain using a PC to get a virus, the problem is that the PC world is where > the masses are, and many of those masses are nits, and they do stupid > things... when the PC pops up asking if they wish to install and download a > virus to delete all their data, they um, then ah, and then click OK. well > that's stupidity and not Windows being vulnerable. > > *Note* I do accept that if you introduce JAWS or Window Eyes to a PC that > this can affect OS performance and stability. Indeed, my technical support > staff have many a time commented, how to watch an amazing machine, filled > with the latest technology, working like a dream turn to treacle, install > JAWS. > > this is true, and is a significant factor to me wishing to jump ship, of > course if FS did what Microsoft did with Windows 7, i.e. dropped the whole > program and started a fresh, I believe that JAWS could seriously give Voice > Over a run for its money on the stability front. as it happens this move is > highly unlikely. > > So there it is folks, what do you Apple wizards think? > > best regards. > > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > Neil Barnfather > Talks List Administrator > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Eric Oyen - N7ZZT Phoenix Arizona Geocode: 33.488462 -112.234926 N33° 29.3077', W112° 14.0956' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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