As an IT guy, I tend to agree with Paul, but I don't fully know
how training works in the telecom world fully. I went to college for
Networking & IT (BS & MS respectively), and got a "Certification" from
their telecom department on Voice Comms. (www.rit.edu) In the IT
field, most IT certifications just SHOW you know SOME of what it takes,
and does not necessarily prove anything (ex, Cisco Certified Networking
Associate). So, I understand what Paul is going for...I've sat next to
people who have gone through CCNA training, and blew through configuring
a switch/router while they were still scratching their head asking "why
did you do that?" and "wait, go back...how did you setup that vlan?".
However, having gone through basic telephony classes, and
installed several PBX/Key Systems in the past, I'm fairly confident that
given some time, a set of manuals, and a support person (be it this
list, the dealer I buy from, a friend, whatever) I could do a fine job
installing a Panasonic system that sounds like they claim "needs"
someone who has been certified to install. (PLEASE correct me if I am
wrong here, since that's kind of the vibe I'm getting from this thread)
Some of us just can't afford both the equipment and installation &
programming charges.
I'm curious though, as someone who is interested in the
Panasonic training programs, what do you learn in the Certification
program that you can not get out of the manual? Don't get me wrong, I
understand and back Panasonic's reasoning for limiting sales of the TDA
to certified dealers, but not selling them on the web, IMHO, is silly.
A close friend of mine is building a new store over the next year, and I
plan on buying a TDA from someone on this list if they are local to
me...because I know what I get when I buy from a real dealer. And not
that any of this hasn't been said before, but if someone looks for a
cheaper price from a shotty "dealer", chances are they know what they
are getting into.
Just another voice in the crowd.
--Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Harry S.
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:51 AM
To: 'Paul H. Gusciora'; 'KX-T Help'
Subject: RE: RE: KX-T: Low Low Fraudulent Prices
Paul wrote:
"but I do not need certification of any kind. However, if I were hiring
someone to configure my switch I might want them to be certified in the
basics.".....Come on Paul would you want a company that was certified on
the basics, Or a well rounded experienced certified company. Most
customers out there want their switch configured to it's maximum
potential and be trained on how to do this and how to do that, there are
some customers who don't care what the system can do they just wanna
pick up the phone and dial out To do the BASICS you do not have to be
certified for, but if you want to take that customer to a higher level
and solve, or implement a particular Application that the client has
challenged you with......you better be certified.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Paul H. Gusciora
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:44 AM
To: KX-T Help
Subject: Re: RE: KX-T: Low Low Fraudulent Prices
Certifications are neither necessary nor sufficient to assure a good
installation or configuration.
If I buy a Cisco (or other high-end) switch, used or new, I am free to
configure or not any way I want. I might have to pay Cisco if I wanted
the latest software image for the switch, but I do not need
certification of any kind. However, if I were hiring someone to
configure my switch I might want them to be certified in the basics.
It is my responsibility to inform myself about the workings of the
product so that I can assure that it is installed properly. If I screw
things up (or my contractor does) it is my fault. No one blames Cisco
for bad product.
I have found that by the time I figure out what I need to know to ask
for what I need, I have the knowledge to configure the thing myself.
I think that most of this thread is about dealers railing about how to
protect their monopoly access to the product, the configuration tool,
and the software updates. Enjoy it while you have it. Asterisk and
OpenPBX (and others) are coming.
Paul H. Gusciora
San Rafael, CA
BTW: networking since 1982 (first DecNet, then others).
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