I can't speak for 37R or XL models, but the 30-2 is another contemporary Ball
design that caries her beam well aft. We used to surf easily on the wavelets
that formed easily in Barnegat Bay NJ where the average depths were 6 to seven
feet and the heat machine built winds up to 20 knots for the second race every
Saturday. Made up a lot of lost time going downwind that way.
Allen Miles
S/V Septima 30-2
Hampton, VA
From: Dave Moore via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 3:20 PM
To: Robert Mazza ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: C&C Mailing List
Subject: Stus-List Surfing C&C hulls 37R, plus or XL?
Any 37R, Plus or XL skippers like to comment on the willingness of their boats
to surf waves?
Thank you
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 31, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Robert Mazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
As long as we are comparing "war stories", despite previously maligning IOR
hulls, the fastest I've gone in a keel boat was on Marauder in the long
distance race of the 1975 Canada's Cup on Lake St. Clair, when it was blowing
the shingles off the roof, and we had a #2 on the spinnaker pole. The bow wave
was breaking at the chain plates, and the speedo was pegged at it's max reading
of 12 Kts for a long time. That was before GPS, so we really had no idea how
fast we were going. And that was with a tiller steered boat. Marauder could out
reach Golden Dazy easily, but couldn't touch her upwind. Dazy took the
series,3-2, winning all the "inshore" races.
Rob Mazza
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
The 35 MK I does not come close to planning like a modern sport boat.
The best I have done in flat water is 11 knots boatspeed with 50-60 knots
on the stern and the working job up. At that speed the stern is sunk nearly to
water level. In any kind of the waves the boat will surf/plane DOWN the waves,
but you drop speed on the upside. Max speed I think I have ever seen is 15-16
knots surfing down 20 footers . The only C&C I have ever seen plane like a
Laser would be the SR-21. I think the only true “planing” C&C s would be the SR
series and maybe the newest 30 foot model.
Joe Della Barba
Coquina C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Mazza via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 12:08 PM
To: Dave Moore
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Planing/Surfing C&C hulls?
Not a definitive analysis, but my recollection is that the older CCA type
hulls, C&C 35s, 43s, and certainly the 61s were better off the wind than the
later IOR influenced hulls, which were better upwind than the older boats.
However, it would be interesting to hear from owners on that subject.
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Dave Moore <drolfmo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Rob and Hank,
Did any of the C&C models have a particular strength in surfing (or
planing) down wind in 15 to 20 knots true wind speed? Years ago I recall
talking to Rob Ball about the importance of prismatic coefficient in surfing
performance but I was remiss in not asking what C&C models have the strongest
surfing potential.
Thank you
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 30, 2014, at 3:14 PM, henry evans via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
Your knowledge of the history of C&C designs is truly amazing. I
enjoyed reading your tutorial.
I never knew Eric was in the kitchen business. After I and a bunch of
others left the faltering C&C, I spent 10 years in brick manufacturing which
landed me in Des Moines, Iowa. Exiting that business, I bought an
Architectural Millwork company and two years later a kitchen cabinet
manufacturing and remodeling company. We ran those two for 20 years, quadrupled
their size and sold them to retire on our trawler. And we did a few boat
interior remodels as well, both power and sail. Our C&C 29 "Illusion" is still
winning races on Lake Rathbun, in SE Iowa.
We are docked at the Naval Air Station Marina in Jacksonville, FL where
Ann has been undergoing tests at Mayo Clinic. As I look out into the mooring
area I can see the distinctive lines of a C&C 35 MK I. A few docks is a
Landfall 38. It is amazing how many C&C's we see as we travel up and down the
ICW each year. They are still the best looking boats on the water !
Cheers from Queen Ann's Revenge,
Hank
On Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:32 PM, Robert Mazza via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Hi John,
Another interesting mid Cuthbertson and Cassian design, before the
creation of C&C Yachts. Big George tells me that Psyche II, designed for Bob
Grant, a future Commodore of RCYC, was essentially a sister to Ivanhoe II which
proceeded Psyche by a couple of years. Ivanhoe II was design number 64-4 for
Comm. Ray Engholm, also of RCYC. She was built in aluminium at Engholm's
aluminium fabrication company Macotta. In actual fact Erich Bruckmann installed
the interior in Ivanhoe after he left Metro Marine and had gone into the
kitchen installation business. It was probability the building the interior on
Ivanhoe which kept him in the boat business. The building of the interior at
the same time as the hull led to all sorts of problems with the aluminium welds
in the hull, but that's another story! Psyche was design number 66-4, and
followed the Redwing 30, Inferno II, and Red Jacket, and immediately preceded
the Redline 41 and the Whitby 45. Therefore, unlike Ivanhoe, Psyche was
designed with a separate keel and rudder. She was also built in aluminium by
Enholm's company Macotta, but I'm not sure who installed the interior. Possibly
Dick Kneulman at Ontario Yachts. Ivanhoe, which had a full keel and attached
rudder was also later modified to the separate keel and rudder configuration.
Neither boat was specifically successful on the race course, since the Ivanhoe
hull lines preceded Red Jacket, and Engholm himself was a tad more conservative
then Perry Connolly in the type of boat he wanted. The Ivanhoe/Psyche "sisters"
were part of the transition in yacht design taking place in the 1960s. It's
great to see Psyche still looking so good. A remarkable boat.
Bob Grant would be part of a number of Canada's Cup syndicates, and
later owned a C&C 48, one of George's last designs at C&C, before he handed
design responsibilities over to Rob Ball. Bob Grant also bought an Aurora 40, I
believe, Mark Elis' first design after parting company from C&C Custom Sales.
Rob
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 10:20 PM, J Roger <johnbobro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The 1968 43' Aluminum PSYCHE II:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f152/43-aluminum-c-and-c-custom-sloop-1968-42-000-florida-132804.html
Would be grand to learn more about the history, building techniques
and sailing characteristics.
Cheers
J
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Robert Mazza via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
The first six were built by Kurt Beister, on the East Frisian
Islands in northern Germany. Most likely designed by Henry Gruber, but modified
for North American requirements by Cuthbertson and Cassian with the addition of
a CCA type yawl rig and the modification of the ballast casting to add more
lead. CN35 Hull #1, Ca Va, was owned by Ian Morch, who would go on to found
Belleville Marine and become the first President of C&C Yachts. Ian just passed
away about two weeks ago. Hull #6, Carousel. the first to be built by Cliff
Richardson in Ontario, but finished by Dick Kneulman at Ontario Yachts, was
owned by Perry Connolly, who, of course would soon commission Cuthbertson and
Cassian to design a 40 footer named Red Jacket. Amazing to see hull #10
available. A truly historic vessel.
Rob Mazza
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
And I thought some of us had "old" boats. Take a peek at this:
<http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1962/C%26C-Canadian-Northern-Hull-%2310-2743930/Mobile/AL/United-States#.VE7zJhZNfh8>
Note the "Star" on the bow cove stripe.
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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