Absolutely. The prior generation was driven by what they witnessed. The
latter generation aw their dreams crushed and their government give
up.Which is odd, because the prior generation drove the decisions made
after the challenger. It may have been that their sails didnt just have
the wind taken, but burned off the ship. I guess its about the perspective
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:14 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
I think that those two events seriously altered the attitude of their
respective generations. Thoughts?
On 05/06/2020 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> I would have loved to have grown up during that time, i grew up
with the
> challenger, quite a different feel
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 12:50 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>> wrote:
>
> Corona has a higher case fatality rate than the ‘68 Hong Kong
flu.
> 1.1% so far world wide.
> Spanish flu was 2.5%
> 1968 flu was only .5%
> And it was a big deal.
> All the grups were conclaving on what to do about it.
> Lots of consternation. There was talk of extending xmas school
> break which I thought was pretty nice.
> But I was more interested in the Apollo program and chasing
girls.
> And most of the sites I have looked at show the HK flu killing
> 38,000 in the US
> *From:* Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:04 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> Woodstock happened in the middle of a pandemic. Whats the
> difference now?
> t was the summer of love: in 1969 a half a million people
gathered
> together to listen to music, take drugs, have sex, roll around in
> the mud, and share a densely populated area for one long weekend.
> And guess what? The whole thing happened during a health
pandemic.
> In 1968 the H3N2 pandemic came to the US from Hong Kong.It killed
> more than 100,000 Americans, mostly over the age of 65, which was
> more combined fatalities than both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.
>
<https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html>Schools,
> movie theaters, bars, tattoo parlors, restaurants, and, of
course,
> concerts venues stayed open. The stock market didn’t crash,
Congress
> didn’t issue a lock down order, the Federal reserve had no
> involvement, there was no spike in the suicide rate, violent
> criminals weren’t freed from jail, and nobody arrested surfers or
> hair stylists.
>
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org
<mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>
> <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>>>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:28:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> Swiss Doctor the FACTS about Covid19
> https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
> Fact #1 is disturbing already.
> According to data from the best-studied countries and
regions, the
> lethality of Covid19 is on average about 0.20%
>
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC3kW1sMu0sjnT_vP1sh4zL0tF6fIHbA6fcG5RQdqSc/>,
> which is in the range of a severe influenza
> <https://www.ebm-netzwerk.de/en/publications/covid-19>(flu) and
> about twenty times lower than originally assumed
>
<https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-age-countries-2020-3>by
> the WHO.
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org
<mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>
> <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>>>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:12:52 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> More interesting reading.
> Here is an interesting site I've been following that shows the
> mutations, and branches of mutations and their genomes.
> https://nextstrain.org/ncov
> Lets take all the figures into proportion. Is this worse than
> previous bad years?
> http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/
> Are shutdowns really having any tangible effect? Several medical
> papers have been submitted, here is just one.
> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1
> *"Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no
evident
> impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic."*
> The 6 foot rule effective?
>
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/
>
>
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256109/Social-distancing-two-metres-apart-based-figure-says-government-adviser.html
>
> " Social distancing orders for people to keep two metres apart to
> stop the spread of coronavirus
> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html>is not
> based on any scientific research, a government adviser has said."
> The Brits had a similar health crisis in 68'
>
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/02/britain-handled-1968-flu-epidemic-shutdown-avoided-second-wave/
>
>
>
> I've also attached a picture that was leaked early on when it was
> detected(of a piece of the actual genome). It shows some
> interesting differences that don't adhere to the normal mutation
> process of a corona virus. They are claimed to be "insertions".
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:50:24 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Cats are trouble.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG5mOd8Ubsk
>
> *From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>>
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:29 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Utah cats are easier to herd than NY cats.
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
>
> On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
>
> We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.
>
> *From:*Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM
>
> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about
all the
> different strains of the virus they've identified? If we
get a
> vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end up being only
> useful for a strain of the virus that has died out by then.
>
> I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I
> digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R
nought),
> and other variations of R. The point being is that I
> misunderstood the concept of "flattening the curve". I had
> thought that reducing the spread would end up infecting
the same
> number of people over a longer period of time (so that we
don't
> overwhelm the health system). Turns out, that if it's done
> right, you don't flatten the curve, but you crush the
curve. I
> also believe that the widely varied infection/death rates
comes
> from a wide variety of factors; population density,
version of
> the virus(es) that are "local", extent of social distancing,
> etc. etc. However, getting 330 million Americans to follow a
> plan is way, way worse than herding cats.
>
>
https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I assume everyone saw the news item today about
researchers
> saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more
contagious
> strain that has pushed out its less aggressive
predecessor
> in Europe and the US east coast. That certainly
throws cold
> water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
starting to
> build.
>
> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate
> change before it) is starting to make me think we are no
> better at handling new threats than the dinosaurs
were when
> an asteroid triggered an ice age. And that we may
all (not
> just the weak and old among us) go the way of the
dinosaurs.
> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and
we’re
> turning on each other and shooting guards at Family
Dollar
> and talking about gutting and eating our neighbors. (and
> their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>
> *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
> *ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Need to see if they will float first.
>
> *From:*James Howard
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> *To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can
even
> agree on what they agree about.
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2. It is most
certainly WAY
> more contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but
until
> we’ve gone a full year we won’t know what the actual
% death
> rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates
about
> what is counted).
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that
> this is about 300 times more contagious than “the
flu” but
> the actual rate of death to cases is lower. What is the
> definition of being “more deadly”?
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though. I think we
> should all be burned at the stake. This of course
leads to
> arguments about what kind of fuel to use and how to
ignite it…….
>
> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
<af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if
> nobody steps up, ill argue it
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of
> science
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got
nothing to
> do with the disease, we should just all be shot. a
whole lot
> less disagreement that way. Would never work though, we
> would never get past the caliber argument to even get to
> shooting
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews
> <i...@avantwireless.com
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4. I don't think Hong Kong, South
> Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere
else but
> that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about. Hong Kong
> stands out the most.
> Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today
and you
> will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up? Could be, but most think
> they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew
> what they were
> doing more than any other country. 4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily. These are
facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly
like an
> exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it
to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has
similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be
safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can
say with
> absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or
may not be
> specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for
deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate. There are cases all over of under
reporting and over reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com
<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> >
> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how
many deaths there have
> > been in excess of what the average was for the
same period in previous
> > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking
about in the NYT article,
> > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how
much detail they go into).
> > We can argue all day about whether somebody
that died of a heart attack
> > died because they had covid19 or whether they
just had an unrelated
> > heart attack and just happened to have a mild
case of covid, and whether
> > they should be counted, but in the end, it
doesn't really
> matter. If
> > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in
> April for the past 5
> > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can
pretty safely blame 5,000
> > of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really
matter if 6,000 people
> > actually died of covid, but 1000 of them
would've died of flu anyway,
> > and it just happened to be covid that finished
them off instead, or if
> > 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv
that they jumped off a
> > bridge and were never infected.
> > I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate
> numbers of how many
> > people directly died of the infection (other
than maybe in Utah), but in
> > a few months we should have pretty accurate
numbers of how many excess
> > deaths there were.
> >
> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof
<af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
> > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Those who suspect an “agenda” will
immediately dispute these graphs
> > because the source is NYT which they will
perceive as biased. But
> > if you read the article, they go out of
their way to point out
> > possible errors in the data, as well as
other influences like
> > overloaded healthcare system led to people
dying of other causes,
> > but also less deaths due to traffic and
violence. And the data as
> > Bill says is from other sources, the paper
didn’t make them up to
> > suit a political agenda or bias.____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> >
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > In other countries like Italy, no doubt the
deaths were undercounted
> > because the system was overwhelmed. Even
in NYC, the morgues and
> > crematories are overloaded, they are
stuffing bodies in refrigerated
> > semis, you can’t possibly claim these are
just the normal deaths
> > being mislabeled as Covid related to suit
an agenda. Then you have
> > all the prison and nursing home deaths.
OK, sure, elderly
> people
> > croak all the time, it’s a hoax.____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
> > *To:* af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > The numbers posted on various web sites are
neither government
> > sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals,
clinics, and morgues are
> > supplying the numbers. There is a level of
uncertainty because of
> > different criteria. That is true for the US
cases, but probably not
> > for other countries. For example, the
numbers coming from China (and
> > several other countries) are by design
government based. But to
> > brush them all off as "government or
corporations" is being naive at
> > least.____
> >
> > I would not say that "most" patients have
pre-existing conditions.
> > Maybe a high percentage, but it does not
explain why such a large
> > number of otherwise healthy people are
being infected
> the way they
> > are. At some point, we will figure out that
there is a genetic or
> > environmental factor that we just do not
understand yet.____
> >
> > I (for one) do not believe the numbers are
100% accurate, but I also
> > do not believe the numbers are 100%
fictitious either. Where
> you cut
> > off is probably a personal thing.____
> >
> > bp____
> >
> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:____
> >
> > You guys work with statistics much?
You think the numbers are
> > accurate? At what point have you ever
seen government or
> > corporations represent 100% accurate
numbers?____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > I'll let you do your own homework. But
I've seen hundreds of
> > reports from all over the place of
deaths of natural causes
> > being classified as covid deaths.
Since most patients have
> > existing conditions and many were
already dying and died of
> > those conditions (heart attack, cancer
etc) are being
> > attributed to covid. Some people have
estimated that upward of
> > 20% misrepresented. So as long as
there is 1 case that is
> > questionable - the statistics are not
accurate. ____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From: *"Bill Prince"
<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > The numbers are not "completely" false,
but it's the best we can
> > do when we don't actually test all the
suspected infections. It
> > also (probably) missed a whole lot of
the early deaths, as they
> > were miss-classified. If you think
under-ground near-do-wells
> > are planted in all the hospitals around
the country and are
> > coordinating false numbers on all the
rest of us, then I have a
> > tin hat that might fit real well.____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > bp____
> >
> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney
wrote:____
> >
> > Numbers are completely false. Even
with that taken into
> > regard it still is just as lethal
as the regular flu. While
> > it is way more harsh on people if
they get it, most people
> > have underlying conditions, or
didn't know they had them, or
> > didn't take it serious when they
got it. ____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > Unfortunately politicians never
waste a crisis to further
> > their agenda. ____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From: *"chuck" <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> > *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> > *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > image____
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Every time I get my hopes up this
curve breaks my heart...
> > Let’s hope we are on the tail of a
normal curve. ____
> >
> > 6 days in a row decline. But it
has done this cycle 3 times
> > before with a huge spike after. ____
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
> >
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
> >
> >
> >
> > ____
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
> >
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
> >
> >
> >
> > ____
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
> >
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> >
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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