sure On 27 March 2018 at 13:38, Søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> now? > > > Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.37 skrev Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com>: > > > > Actually I've ehad a thought about how you could do it in Logic. Give me > a > > bell +44 (0) 7719456112 > > best > > Gus > > > > On 27 March 2018 at 13:36, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Learning Max would take much longer than learning Nuendo. Its not max > for > >> live perse but the standalone software max msp which predated max for > live > >> Im suggesting. > >> I wouldnt try and use live for this and Logic doesnt have enough busses. > >> What you are describing is the kind of work I do very often - Im afraid > the > >> learning curve would be quite steep as you need to learn new software. I > >> would learn reaper. > >> > >> On 27 March 2018 at 13:32, Søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning. > >>> Max—is it max for live? > >>> I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing. > >>> Logic has 8 ch busses. > >>> > >>>> Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.25 skrev Augustine Leudar < > >>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>: > >>>> > >>>> PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price > concerns > >>> - > >>>> reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus > >>> system in > >>>> Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact > >>> the > >>>> balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a > >>> really > >>>> irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it > >>> (theres > >>>> possibly other software available - thats just what I use) > >>>> > >>>> On 27 March 2018 at 13:22, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com > >>> <mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> 16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots > of > >>>>> cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its > totally > >>>>> bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I > >>> dont > >>>>> know waht the spatialisation tools are like. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 13:17, søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> And impressive work! > >>>>>> Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of > amplitude > >>>>>> panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..) > >>>>>> BR > >>>>>> Søren Bendixen > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sendt fra min iPad > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds < > >>>>>> jackreynolds...@gmail.com>: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> J > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape > >>>>>> rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar < > >>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar > project > >>>>>> with > >>>>>>>> two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice > >>> would > >>>>>> be > >>>>>>>> to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - > >>>>>> sweet > >>>>>>>> spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations > >>> and > >>>>>>>> occasionally for museums, > >>>>>>>> best, > >>>>>>>> Gus > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds < > jackreynolds...@gmail.com > >>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a > >>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>>> confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an > in > >>>>>> phase > >>>>>>>>> and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan > a > >>>>>> signal > >>>>>>>>> towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a > >>>>>> lower > >>>>>>>>> level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned > >>>>>>>> equidistant > >>>>>>>>> from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the > air > >>>>>>>> pressure > >>>>>>>>> at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic > >>>>>>>> pattern. > >>>>>>>>> So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change > >>> because of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> opposite pairs of speakers. > >>>>>>>>> It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, > >>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>>> you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel > >>> signal. > >>>>>>>>> So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in > >>> Reaper > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins > >>> which > >>>>>>>> could > >>>>>>>>> be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs > >>> which > >>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just > >>> launched a > >>>>>>>>> customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try > >>> MATHIAS > >>>>>>>>> Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the > same > >>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>> They also free, so you could experiment for nothing! > >>>>>>>>> PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do > >>> 8, so > >>>>>>>>> first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hope this helps! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Jack > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen < > >>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hello > >>>>>>>>>> I need some advice! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now > >>> (read: > >>>>>>>>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ < > >>>>>>>>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next > >>> project > >>>>>>>>> could be the one using ambisonics!… > >>>>>>>>>> I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot > >>>>>> lately, > >>>>>>>>> and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting > >>> stuff > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> binaural. > >>>>>>>>>> And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my > >>> speakers. > >>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> did that a while back and it sounded very cool. > >>>>>>>>>> I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but > hope I > >>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>> get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and > Reaper. > >>> I > >>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>> most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into > >>>>>> another > >>>>>>>> DAW > >>>>>>>>> is difficult. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use > >>>>>>>>> standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, > >>> some > >>>>>>>>> sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging > >>> every > >>>>>>>>> sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - > and I > >>>>>>>> started > >>>>>>>>> out working this way because I was asked to do 3 > >>>>>> compositions/sounddesign > >>>>>>>>> playing in the same room - (please read the article from > >>>>>> asoundeffect). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker > >>>>>>>>> placement. > >>>>>>>>>> But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and > >>> this is > >>>>>>>>> what want to do: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one > >>> related > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two > other > >>>>>>>>> circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 > meters > >>> up > >>>>>>>>> pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This > >>> sounddesign > >>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this > >>> part of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this > sounddesign > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different > >>>>>>>> audiofiles > >>>>>>>>> (managed by Qlab). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is > >>> square > >>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>> we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by > projecting > >>>>>>>> movies > >>>>>>>>> on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of > mainly > >>>>>> season > >>>>>>>>> related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and > just > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> sound of a cold cold morning..). > >>>>>>>>>> his sounddesign should be ambisonics too. > >>>>>>>>>> If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people > >>> walking or > >>>>>>>>> wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle > >>> and > >>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>>> headphones. and back. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer > circle > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will > >>> hear > >>>>>>>>> layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never > leave > >>>>>> what I > >>>>>>>>> call the overall sounddesign. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> So how do I do that..? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim > >>> for” a > >>>>>>>>> sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www. > >>>>>>>>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > >>>>>>>>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www. > >>>>>>>>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > >>>>>>>>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..? > >>>>>>>>>> It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition > >>> crowd > >>>>>>>>> walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go. > >>>>>>>>>> And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is > >>> the > >>>>>>>>> best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the > >>> middle > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also > >>> like > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker > >>>>>>>>> configuration..right? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs > both > >>>>>>>>> overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific > >>>>>> position)- > >>>>>>>>> and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an > >>>>>> overall > >>>>>>>>> ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the > same > >>>>>>>> design…? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> And what software do I need? > >>>>>>>>>> I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and > >>> make > >>>>>>>>> ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files > >>>>>>>>>> and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural > sound > >>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> headphones. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I´m testing > >>>>>>>>>> Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in > logic > >>>>>> too) > >>>>>>>>>> DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics > >>> output) > >>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>> (sounds great and the panner is very good) > >>>>>>>>>> And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but > misses > >>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>> automation) > >>>>>>>>>> Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’m about to test > >>>>>>>>>> Waves ambisonics B360 + NX > >>>>>>>>>> Rondo360 > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can > >>>>>> handle > >>>>>>>>> ambisonics, right? > >>>>>>>>>> I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper > >>>>>>>>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 < > >>>>>>>>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different > >>>>>>>>> sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try > and > >>>>>> make > >>>>>>>>> all three in the same session…in logic. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might > use > >>> for > >>>>>>>>> some odd stuff. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> So - what do you recommend? > >>>>>>>>>> And what do see as problems/issues? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to > >>> says: > >>>>>>>>> Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-) > >>>>>>>>>> And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how > >>> does > >>>>>>>> far > >>>>>>>>> more weird stuff than this :-) > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Søren Bendixen > >>>>>>>>>> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition > >>> “Gladiator”, > >>>>>>>> At > >>>>>>>>> Moesgaard Museum > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > >>>>>>>>>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>> +45 60624394 > >>>>>>>>>> www.soerenbendixen.com > >>>>>>>>>> Facebook > >>>>>>>>>> Soundcloud > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>>> Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > >>>>>>>>>> Type: image/jpeg > >>>>>>>>>> Size: 61248 bytes > >>>>>>>>>> Desc: not available > >>>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.jpg> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > >>>>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > >>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>>>> www.magikdoor.net > >>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/8d98ceee/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 07889727365 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 02036861372 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 3 Swimmers Lane > >>>>>>> Haggerston > >>>>>>> London > >>>>>>> E2 8FR > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> www.sohovr.co.uk > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>>>>> nts/20180327/6dd24adf/attachment.html> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>>>>> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>> here, > >>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>> www.magikdoor.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>> www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/b6e8b70c/attachment.html <https://mail.music. > >>> vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180327/ > >>> b6e8b70c/attachment.html>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <https > >>> ://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, > edit > >>> account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > >>> > >>> Søren Bendixen > >>> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > >>> > >>> Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, > At > >>> Moesgaard Museum > >>> > >>> New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > >>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com > >>> +45 60624394 > >>> www.soerenbendixen.com > >>> Facebook > >>> Soundcloud > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/7e9b94aa/attachment.html> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >>> Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > >>> Type: image/jpeg > >>> Size: 61248 bytes > >>> Desc: not available > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/7e9b94aa/attachment.jpg> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >> Company Number : NI635217 > >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >> Belfast BT88LL > >> www.magikdoor.net > >> > >> > >> > >> On 27 March 2018 at 13:32, Søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> 👍 > >>> > >>>> Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.28 skrev Augustine Leudar < > >>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>: > >>>> > >>>> PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying > to > >>>> keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon. > >>>> > >>>> On 27 March 2018 at 13:25, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com > >>> <mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price > >>> concerns - > >>>>> reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus > >>> system in > >>>>> Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact > >>> the > >>>>> balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a > >>> really > >>>>> irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it > >>> (theres > >>>>> possibly other software available - thats just what I use) > >>>>> > >>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 13:22, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com > >>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> 16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots > of > >>>>>> cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its > totally > >>>>>> bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and > I > >>> dont > >>>>>> know waht the spatialisation tools are like. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 13:17, søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>> And impressive work! > >>>>>>> Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of > amplitude > >>>>>>> panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..) > >>>>>>> BR > >>>>>>> Søren Bendixen > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sendt fra min iPad > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds < > >>>>>>> jackreynolds...@gmail.com>: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> J > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape > >>>>>>> rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar < > >>> augustineleu...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar > >>> project > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>> two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice > >>>>>>> would be > >>>>>>>>> to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning > - > >>>>>>> sweet > >>>>>>>>> spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations > >>> and > >>>>>>>>> occasionally for museums, > >>>>>>>>> best, > >>>>>>>>> Gus > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds < > >>> jackreynolds...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has > a > >>>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>>>> confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an > >>> in > >>>>>>> phase > >>>>>>>>>> and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you > pan a > >>>>>>> signal > >>>>>>>>>> towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce > a > >>>>>>> lower > >>>>>>>>>> level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned > >>>>>>>>> equidistant > >>>>>>>>>> from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the > air > >>>>>>>>> pressure > >>>>>>>>>> at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 > mic > >>>>>>>>> pattern. > >>>>>>>>>> So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change > >>> because > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> opposite pairs of speakers. > >>>>>>>>>> It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, > >>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>>>> you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel > >>>>>>> signal. > >>>>>>>>>> So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in > >>> Reaper > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins > >>> which > >>>>>>>>> could > >>>>>>>>>> be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs > >>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just > >>> launched > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try > >>> MATHIAS > >>>>>>>>>> Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the > >>> same > >>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>>> They also free, so you could experiment for nothing! > >>>>>>>>>> PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do > >>> 8, > >>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>>>> first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jack > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen < > >>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello > >>>>>>>>>>> I need some advice! > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now > >>> (read: > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ < > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next > >>> project > >>>>>>>>>> could be the one using ambisonics!… > >>>>>>>>>>> I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot > >>>>>>> lately, > >>>>>>>>>> and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting > >>>>>>> stuff to > >>>>>>>>>> binaural. > >>>>>>>>>>> And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my > >>>>>>> speakers. I > >>>>>>>>>> did that a while back and it sounded very cool. > >>>>>>>>>>> I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but > hope > >>> I > >>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>> get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and > >>> Reaper. I > >>>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>>> most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic > - > >>> the > >>>>>>>>>> exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into > >>>>>>> another > >>>>>>>>> DAW > >>>>>>>>>> is difficult. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to > use > >>>>>>>>>> standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, > >>> some > >>>>>>>>>> sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging > >>>>>>> every > >>>>>>>>>> sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - > and > >>> I > >>>>>>>>> started > >>>>>>>>>> out working this way because I was asked to do 3 > >>>>>>> compositions/sounddesign > >>>>>>>>>> playing in the same room - (please read the article from > >>>>>>> asoundeffect). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker > >>>>>>>>>> placement. > >>>>>>>>>>> But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and > >>> this > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>> what want to do: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> - Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one > >>> related > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two > >>> other > >>>>>>>>>> circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> - Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 > >>> meters up > >>>>>>>>>> pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This > >>>>>>> sounddesign > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this > >>> part > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this > sounddesign > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different > >>>>>>>>> audiofiles > >>>>>>>>>> (managed by Qlab). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> - Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is > >>> square > >>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>> we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by > >>> projecting > >>>>>>>>> movies > >>>>>>>>>> on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of > mainly > >>>>>>> season > >>>>>>>>>> related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and > >>> just > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> sound of a cold cold morning..). > >>>>>>>>>>> his sounddesign should be ambisonics too. > >>>>>>>>>>> If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people > >>> walking > >>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>> wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle > circle > >>> and > >>>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>>>> headphones. and back. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer > circle > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will > >>> hear > >>>>>>>>>> layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never > leave > >>>>>>> what I > >>>>>>>>>> call the overall sounddesign. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So how do I do that..? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim > >>> for” > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www. > >>>>>>>>>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > >>>>>>>>>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www. > >>>>>>>>>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > >>>>>>>>>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..? > >>>>>>>>>>> It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition > >>> crowd > >>>>>>>>>> walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go. > >>>>>>>>>>> And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it > is > >>> the > >>>>>>>>>> best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the > >>>>>>> middle of > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also > >>> like > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker > >>>>>>>>>> configuration..right? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs > >>> both > >>>>>>>>>> overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific > >>>>>>> position)- > >>>>>>>>>> and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an > >>>>>>> overall > >>>>>>>>>> ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the > >>> same > >>>>>>>>> design…? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> And what software do I need? > >>>>>>>>>>> I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and > >>> make > >>>>>>>>>> ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files > >>>>>>>>>>> and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural > >>> sound > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>> headphones. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I´m testing > >>>>>>>>>>> Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in > >>> logic > >>>>>>> too) > >>>>>>>>>>> DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics > >>>>>>> output) - > >>>>>>>>>> (sounds great and the panner is very good) > >>>>>>>>>>> And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but > misses > >>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>> automation) > >>>>>>>>>>> Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I’m about to test > >>>>>>>>>>> Waves ambisonics B360 + NX > >>>>>>>>>>> Rondo360 > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab > can > >>>>>>> handle > >>>>>>>>>> ambisonics, right? > >>>>>>>>>>> I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper > >>>>>>>>>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 < > >>>>>>>>>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in > different > >>>>>>>>>> sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try > >>> and > >>>>>>> make > >>>>>>>>>> all three in the same session…in logic. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might > use > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>> some odd stuff. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So - what do you recommend? > >>>>>>>>>>> And what do see as problems/issues? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to > >>>>>>> says: > >>>>>>>>>> Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-) > >>>>>>>>>>> And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how > >>> does > >>>>>>>>> far > >>>>>>>>>> more weird stuff than this :-) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Søren Bendixen > >>>>>>>>>>> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition > >>>>>>> “Gladiator”, > >>>>>>>>> At > >>>>>>>>>> Moesgaard Museum > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > >>>>>>>>>>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>> +45 60624394 > >>>>>>>>>>> www.soerenbendixen.com > >>>>>>>>>>> Facebook > >>>>>>>>>>> Soundcloud > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>>>> Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > >>>>>>>>>>> Type: image/jpeg > >>>>>>>>>>> Size: 61248 bytes > >>>>>>>>>>> Desc: not available > >>>>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.jpg> > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > >>> unsubscribe > >>>>>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > >>>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>>>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>>>>> www.magikdoor.net > >>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>>>> attachments/20180327/8d98ceee/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > >>>>>>> here, > >>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 07889727365 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 02036861372 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 3 Swimmers Lane > >>>>>>>> Haggerston > >>>>>>>> London > >>>>>>>> E2 8FR > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> www.sohovr.co.uk > >>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>>>>>> nts/20180327/6dd24adf/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>>>>>> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>> here, > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>> www.magikdoor.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>> www.magikdoor.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>> www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/a7f3960f/attachment.html <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mai > >>> lman/private/sursound/attachments/20180327/a7f3960f/attachment.html>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > >>> > >>> Søren Bendixen > >>> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > >>> > >>> Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, > At > >>> Moesgaard Museum > >>> > >>> New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > >>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com > >>> +45 60624394 > >>> www.soerenbendixen.com > >>> Facebook > >>> Soundcloud > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/b5af65e6/attachment.html> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >>> Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > >>> Type: image/jpeg > >>> Size: 61248 bytes > >>> Desc: not available > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>> nts/20180327/b5af65e6/attachment.jpg> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dr. Augustine Leudar > >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >> Company Number : NI635217 > >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >> Belfast BT88LL > >> www.magikdoor.net > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Augustine Leudar > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > Company Number : NI635217 > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > Belfast BT88LL > > www.magikdoor.net > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20180327/dd68a3d9/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > > Søren Bendixen > Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > > Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At > Moesgaard Museum > > New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > > > > > > Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > soerenbendi...@gmail.com > +45 60624394 > www.soerenbendixen.com > Facebook > Soundcloud > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20180327/f39507b5/attachment.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 61248 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20180327/f39507b5/attachment.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - 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