Yeah I think 6 years of max would help a lot for puredata. I've used puredata for network 3d audio stuff its great but I think going from a Daw to something like max or puredata might be a bit much with a project time limitation.
On Tuesday, 27 March 2018, Marc Lavallée <m...@hacklava.net> wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:22:38 +0100 > Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > 16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots > > of cash > > - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally > > bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I > > dont know waht the spatialisation tools are like. > > The VBAP plugin for Puredata is the same than the one for Max/MSP, and > was written by Ville Pulkki who created the VBAP method: > https://puredata.info/downloads/vbap > > I don't think that Puredata was difficult to learn; that said I started > in 1997 after 6 years of Max (from its beta version). PD is still being > used, even by younger adopters; I saw a data sonification demo last > week made by students in AI (who are not more intelligent than sound > designers). It lacks the shiny user interface of DAWs (and Max/MSP). > > -- > Marc > > > On 27 March 2018 at 13:17, søren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks > > > And impressive work! > > > Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of > > > amplitude panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..) > > > BR > > > Søren Bendixen > > > > > > Sendt fra min iPad > > > > > > > Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds < > > > jackreynolds...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea. > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/ > > > papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar > > > > <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar > > > >> project > > > with > > > >> two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice > > > >> would > > > be > > > >> to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning > > > >> - sweet spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around > > > >> installations and occasionally for museums, > > > >> best, > > > >> Gus > > > >> > > > >> On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds > > > >> <jackreynolds...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has > > > >>> a quite confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics > > > >>> produce an in > > > phase > > > >>> and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you > > > >>> pan a > > > signal > > > >>> towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce > > > >>> a lower level antiphase signal, which will work when you are > > > >>> positioned > > > >> equidistant > > > >>> from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the > > > >>> air > > > >> pressure > > > >>> at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 > > > >>> mic > > > >> pattern. > > > >>> So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change > > > >>> because of > > > >> the > > > >>> opposite pairs of speakers. > > > >>> It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single > > > >>> speaker, unless you are working at seventh order ambisonics, > > > >>> with a 64 channel signal. So I am wondering why you are > > > >>> considering ambisonics over vbap? > > > >>> > > > >>> I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in > > > >>> Reaper > > > and > > > >>> have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins > > > >>> which > > > >> could > > > >>> be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only > > > >>> DAWs which > > > >> will > > > >>> give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just > > > >>> launched a customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can > > > >>> also try MATHIAS Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural > > > >>> decoding at the same > > > time. > > > >>> They also free, so you could experiment for nothing! > > > >>> PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only > > > >>> do 8, so first order only, which won’t give you much positional > > > >>> accuracy. > > > >>> > > > >>> Hope this helps! > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers > > > >>> > > > >>> Jack > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Sent from my iPhone > > > >>> > > > >>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen > > > >>>> <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Hello > > > >>>> I need some advice! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now > > > >>>> (read: > > > >>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ < > > > >>> https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next > > > >>> project could be the one using ambisonics!… > > > >>>> I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a > > > >>>> lot > > > lately, > > > >>> and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting > > > >>> stuff > > > to > > > >>> binaural. > > > >>>> And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my > > > >>>> speakers. I > > > >>> did that a while back and it sounded very cool. > > > >>>> I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but > > > >>>> hope I can > > > >>> get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and > > > >>>> Reaper. I do > > > >>> most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic > > > >>> - the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging > > > >>> deep into another > > > >> DAW > > > >>> is difficult. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to > > > >>>> use > > > >>> standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, > > > >>> some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and > > > >>> arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in > > > >>> different ways - and I > > > >> started > > > >>> out working this way because I was asked to do 3 > > > compositions/sounddesign > > > >>> playing in the same room - (please read the article from > > > >>> asoundeffect). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is > > > >>>> speaker > > > >>> placement. > > > >>>> But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and > > > >>>> this is > > > >>> what want to do: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> - Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one > > > >>>> related to > > > >>> the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two > > > >>> other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> - Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 > > > >>>> meters up > > > >>> pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This > > > >>> sounddesign > > > >> will > > > >>> consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this > > > >>> part of > > > >> the > > > >>> exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this > > > >>> sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can > > > >>> be two different > > > >> audiofiles > > > >>> (managed by Qlab). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> - Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is > > > >>>> square > > > but > > > >>> we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by > > > >>> projecting > > > >> movies > > > >>> on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of > > > >>> mainly > > > season > > > >>> related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and > > > >>> just the sound of a cold cold morning..). > > > >>>> his sounddesign should be ambisonics too. > > > >>>> If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people > > > >>>> walking or > > > >>> wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle > > > >>> circle and > > > >> into > > > >>> headphones. and back. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer > > > >>>> circle will > > > >>> blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you > > > >>> will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so > > > >>> you never leave > > > what I > > > >>> call the overall sounddesign. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> So how do I do that..? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim > > > >>>> for” a > > > >>> sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www. > > > >>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > > > >>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www. > > > >>> creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of- > > > >>> ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..? > > > >>>> It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition > > > >>>> crowd > > > >>> walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go. > > > >>>> And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it > > > >>>> is the > > > >>> best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the > > > >>> middle > > > of > > > >> a > > > >>> storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also > > > >>> like > > > the > > > >>> idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker > > > >>> configuration..right? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs > > > >>>> both > > > >>> overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific > > > position)- > > > >>> and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an > > > >>> overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds > > > >>> in the same > > > >> design…? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> And what software do I need? > > > >>>> I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files > > > >>>> and make > > > >>> ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files > > > >>>> and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural > > > >>>> sound for > > > >>> headphones. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I´m testing > > > >>>> Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in > > > >>>> logic > > > too) > > > >>>> DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics > > > >>>> output) - > > > >>> (sounds great and the panner is very good) > > > >>>> And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but > > > >>>> misses some > > > >>> automation) > > > >>>> Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I’m about to test > > > >>>> Waves ambisonics B360 + NX > > > >>>> Rondo360 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab > > > >>>> can > > > handle > > > >>> ambisonics, right? > > > >>>> I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper > > > >>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 < > > > >>> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in > > > >>>> different > > > >>> sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try > > > >>> and > > > make > > > >>> all three in the same session…in logic. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might > > > >>>> use for > > > >>> some odd stuff. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> So - what do you recommend? > > > >>>> And what do see as problems/issues? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone > > > >>>> to says: > > > >>> Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-) > > > >>>> And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people > > > >>>> how does > > > >> far > > > >>> more weird stuff than this :-) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Søren Bendixen > > > >>>> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition > > > >>>> “Gladiator”, > > > >> At > > > >>> Moesgaard Museum > > > >>>> > > > >>>> New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag > > > >>>> soerenbendi...@gmail.com > > > >>>> +45 60624394 > > > >>>> www.soerenbendixen.com > > > >>>> Facebook > > > >>>> Soundcloud > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > >>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.html> > > > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > >>>> Name: Musicforexhibitions_2x32cm.jpg > > > >>>> Type: image/jpeg > > > >>>> Size: 61248 bytes > > > >>>> Desc: not available > > > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > >>> attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.jpg> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> Sursound mailing list > > > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > >>>> unsubscribe > > > >> here, > > > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Sursound mailing list > > > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > >>> unsubscribe > > > here, > > > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Dr. Augustine Leudar > > > >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > >> Company Number : NI635217 > > > >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > >> Belfast BT88LL > > > >> www.magikdoor.net > > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > >> attachments/20180327/8d98ceee/attachment.html> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Sursound mailing list > > > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > >> unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so > > > >> on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > 07889727365 > > > > > > > > 02036861372 > > > > > > > > 3 Swimmers Lane > > > > Haggerston > > > > London > > > > E2 8FR > > > > > > > > > > > > www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones > > > > > > > > www.sohovr.co.uk > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > attachments/20180327/6dd24adf/attachment.html> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > > > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL www.magikdoor.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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