----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Moved into the ex-ip of a spammer
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:02:45PM -0500, Thomas Cameron wrote: > > Good luck. SPEWS completely sucks - I have a client in a very similar > > situation, and my requests on news.admin.net-abuse.email only got me called > > all kinds of nasty names. The gist of the responses I got was "If you do > > business with an ISP that allows spam, allowed spam, or had anything to do > > in any way, shape or form with a spammer, then screw you - you've gotten > > what you deserve." > > > > While I have no doubt that you got called all sorts of nasty names on n.a.n.e, > your characterization of how SPEWS operates is completely inaccurate and I > suspect deliberately disingenous. Um, which description was that? I don't see *any* description of SPEWS other than my *opinion* that it sucks. You actually help make my case - you are a SPEWS supporter and you call me a liar (and it's "disingenuous") for no reason. > SPEWS is NOT a list of spammers. It is a > partial and flexible list of address space assigned to ISP's who support > spammers. Yeah, and every customer of those ISPs - even those customers who don't spam. Customers are not in the technology business and have never heard of SPEWS or DNSBLs so didn't know that they could/should check. So those well-intentioned folks who are getting service from names they typically would trust (SBC in my client's case) only find out about SPEWS when their e-mail starts bouncing. The net result is that a lot of innocent people are having their e-mail and therefore their business interfered with because of SPEWS inflexibility. > SPEWS initially lists the IP addresses used by spammers. If their complaints > to the ISP go unanswered, then, over time, those listings expand. If an ISP is > particularly unresponsive or is actively hosting a great number of spammers, > that listing will eventually expand to cover the entire ISP. The punitive > nature of this listing seems to be deliberate (although no one who is SPEWS > has ever admitted to it or really described how exactly they operate). Exactly - no matter how many times you call it "flexible," SPEWS is not. There is no way to appeal a listing. Hell, there's no way to contact anyone at SPEWS. That's BS. > It does rather suck for the non-spamming customers of the ISP's who are > actively assisting in network abuse. "Rather suck?!?!" Good Lord, there is enough working against the small businesses who use services like SBC DSL without the idiots at SPEWS jacking with their e-mail flow. I have tried unsuccessfully to explain the concept of "reasonable" on that list and just been insulted over it. It is not reasonable to expect the owner of a small non-tech company to even know that there is such a thing as SPEWS. It is a fairly small company, and he's just a regular guy with a mortgage and kids to feed. He needs every financial break he can get, so he signs a long term contract with a well-known company (SBC) to get a price break on commercial DSL. He has me set up a Linux web and mail server for him to save on licensing dollars. The Linux box is tight, no open relay or anything. They get a new client and can't communicate with that client via e-mail because SPEWS lists an entire /24 subnet even though the ISP has it carved into /29s. So my client gets dinged, and can't do anything about it. The contract he signed with SBC guarantees connection to their border, so there is no way to terminate the contract. My client is screwed. > However, for the rest of the Internet it > works very well and is the only active tool that is forcing ISP's to stop > taking spammer money. As long as it continues to work, I'm happy to support > SPEWS. Lesser measures have failed to be effective. It doesn't work - SBC doesn't give a damn about SPEWS - I've sent over a dozen e-mails and made countless calls to various customer service and abuse contacts. They just don't respond. So your lofty SPEWS doesn't hurt the ISP, doesn't hurt the spammers, but hurts the little guy trying to make a living. That's just plain wrong. Thomas ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
