Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> That was actually what I had originally proposed. My role format was > stop:+00:32, though, which is only slightly different. People in this list > noted that it would corrupt existing relation roles, so I redesigned the > proposal to have no effect on existing data. The way I think it I cannot

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi Leif, Am 16/02/2019 um 15.04 schrieb Leif Rasmussen: > Here is a link to the current proposal, which everyone with a wiki account > can now vote on: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Departures Please mind the rules documented at https://wiki.op

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> I didn't follow the discussion but this proposal is at least > helpful. > Why not map xx:xx in the same route relation? Role > examples: > stop@00:20, stop_exit_only@03:45, > stop_entry_only@00:25-00:31, and for > bus stops where the timetable is approximated (like in > Brazil) use "~" > for the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical > to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM. Well, this is not a so simple question. There're many countries around the world that have no GTFS. And, it's just what happens to us in Brazil. We are mapping intercity bus r

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Regarding the proposal, feel free to try and apply it on your bus routes. And if you mapped say a hundred, you can even change the proposal's status and bring it up for a vote. Be prepared for quite a bit of resistance though, but for what it's worth, I'm likely to vote in favour. The main point pe

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I think most people will be against having variable roles in the route relations. Polyglot On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 8:04 PM santamariense wrote: > > I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical > > to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM. > > Well, this is not a

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_timetables I'm creating this proposal, which does have information about the operators / agencies, which we

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> The last edit on that proposals says > > 'Made this proposal abandoned and noted that it has been replaced by the > proposed key "departures"' So look there? Yup. I've already read all proposal and it's no too clear for me where departures=* and interval=* go. I've understood that they go in the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 14/02/19 11:05, santamariense wrote: Why did you abandon this proposal (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Timetable_relations)? It seems to have never been voted. And, I support it. The last edit on that proposals says 'Made this proposal aban

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Why did you abandon this proposal (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Timetable_relations)? It seems to have never been voted. And, I support it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lis

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, Thanks for bringing up this discussion again! I have now opened up the departures tag proposal for voting, so please feel free to vote on the proposal if you would like. I had been tweaking it for a while, and it seems ready now. Thanks again, Leif Rasmussen On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 4:54 PM Tijme

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Jo, Leif, My sincerest apologies. I couldn't find a request to vote on this list's archives. Must have overlooked it. Tijmen On 11-02-19 22:51, Jo wrote: The proposal was voted upon. On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam > wrote: On 31-10-18 00:54,

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 21:54, Tijmen Stam wrote: > > On January 3rd this year, Leif added the "Interval" and "duration" tags > to the wiki for bus route: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aroute%3Dbus&type=revision&diff=1767271&oldid=1684316 > > I have sideways followed this

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Wasn't that only for the currently abandoned parts? 在 2019年2月12日週二 05:52，Jo 寫道： > The proposal was voted upon. > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam wrote: > >> On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: >> > Hello everyone! >> > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

The proposal was voted upon. On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam wrote: > On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. > > This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about > >

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: Hello everyone! I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about when or how often certain buses or trains arrive at a platform. https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Pro

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen wrote > On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:43 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick < > graemefitz1@ > > > wrote: > >> Simple way may just be multiple timetable tags - >> "timetable:red_busline=URL*" "timetable:blue_busline=URL*" >> > > That was a suggestion I made earlier in the thread, but nobody responded

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:21 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 08:02, Paul Allen wrote: > >> If I understand it correctly (quite possibly not) your examples are not >> GTFS feeds but timetables >> derived from them. >> > > Ugh, now you're asking questions that are way, way b

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Le 08. 11. 18 à 23:03, Jo a écrit : > an object that 'represents' an operator the operator's headquarters seems appropriate. but the question remains open for networks. that being said, I have the impression that we could start already with what doesn't need it (the interval proposal, add the GT

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 08:02, Paul Allen wrote: > If I understand it correctly (quite possibly not) your examples are not > GTFS feeds but timetables > derived from them. > Ugh, now you're asking questions that are way, way beyond me! Any thoughts, anyone (& does it make any difference?) Simple

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 10:00 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 07:53, Paul Allen wrote: > >> >> Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago >> which apparently drew straight >> lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

One thing that I found while trying this 'little' exercise is that it would be good to have an object that 'represents' an operator or a network. I was using this to keep track of holidays with Sunday schedule and when school vacations are, because that influences the timetables, but it could defi

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:43 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:28, Paul Allen wrote: > >> >> All of them. :) >> >> Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances. >> > > Agree with you, but I don't think we need to provide all those options, > just get the v

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 07:53, Paul Allen wrote: > > Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago which > apparently drew straight > lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather > than following a road between > them. > I was wondering whether yo

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:27 PM Andy Townsend wrote: > > FWIW I've just used https://www.traveline.info/ to find journey between > Porthmadog and Criccieth and Bearsden and Milton of Campsie (yes! There > are ones at this time of night!) so the main site does indeed work in > Wales and Scotland.

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:28, Paul Allen wrote: > > All of them. :) > > Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances. > Agree with you, but I don't think we need to provide all those options, just get the viewer to the right website, because once they're there, there are links pr

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On 08/11/2018 20:24, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes > wrote: In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map. See http://www.travelinemidlands

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, 2018-11-08 at 20:24 +, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes > wrote: > > In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In > > fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map. > > See > > http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XS

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes wrote: > In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they > are part of the OSM community and update the map. > See > http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&timeOffset=15 > Erm, nope. See htt

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map. See http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&timeOffset=15 Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 5:07 PM Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote: > Integrating GTFS seems like a much better idea than adding actual > schedules to OpenStreetMap. I had not considered this previously because I > did not understand how GTFS is used worldwide. Perhaps it would be > possible

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Integrating GTFS seems like a much better idea than adding actual schedules to OpenStreetMap. I had not considered this previously because I did not understand how GTFS is used worldwide. Perhaps it would be possible to start something like a new gtfs.openstreetmap.org (which would be similar to

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:01 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Which page would we prefer - the current departures or the full day? > All of them. :) Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances. For planning a journey at some as-yet-undecided point in the future I'd want to see

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 10:36, Paul Allen wrote: > > I think that, unless there are serious flaws with GTFS, we should figure > out a way to tag it. Another > problem I thought of is whether it should go on individual stops or route > relations. Simplicity and > data integrity says on route relat

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 12:07 AM OSMDoudou < 19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: > > Even if you can make it fit, it's not necessarily a good idea to do it. > > I'm thinking of the Hoover Dustette. > > Excuse my ignorance. You’re thinking to what ? > The Hoover Dustette was a cyli

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

> Even if you can make it fit, it's not necessarily a good idea to do it. > I'm thinking of the Hoover Dustette. Excuse my ignorance. You’re thinking to what ? > I'm not sure that a wiki would be the optimal architecture for this if we > ended up with many GTFS feeds that were interrogated frequ

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 11:31 PM OSMDoudou < 19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: Just a quick web search, but it appears there exist GTFS editors and there > is an entire ecosystem around creating and hosting GFTS files. > One thought just occurred to me. It looks like whatever t

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 11:20 PM OSMDoudou < 19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: > > We should think one step further than the tagging and figure a solution > for maintaining and hosting GTFS files in case the PT organization doesn’t > publish one. If we can resolve the issue of ho

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

(Re-posting because I accidentally dropped talk-transit) On Nov 8, 2018, at 00:30, OSMDoudou <19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: Just a quick web search, but it appears there exist GTFS editors and there is an entire ecosystem around creating and hosting GFTS files. Here is on

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

(Re-posting because I accidentally dropped talk-transit) On Nov 8, 2018, at 00:18, OSMDoudou <19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: > And it's re-inventing the wheel. GTFS already exists. > Could we do better? Maybe, maybe not. Indeed. If someone determines GTFS needed improvem

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Just a quick web search, but it appears there exist GTFS editors and there is an entire ecosystem around creating and hosting GFTS files. Here is one editor, for example: https://conveyal-data-tools.readthedocs.io/en/latest.___ Tagging mailing list Tagg

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

> And it's re-inventing the wheel. GTFS already exists. > Could we do better? Maybe, maybe not. Indeed. If someone determines GTFS needed improvement, it’s best to work in that community to improve it instead of inventing another standard. This xkcd comic is particularly well suited for this s

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:08 PM Jo wrote: > (started writing this several hours ago) > > And another that goes into full detail, listing all the departures at the > first stop and then lists all stops, with the most common times between > stops as roles. For this we would need separate public_tran

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

(started writing this several hours ago) The way this proposal is evolving, there will be 2 versions. One that gives an approximate idea of how much time there is between 2 buses for a given time of day/day of week. Those can be added as tags on the route relations. That one should not be dismis

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Mapping, for example, buildings is feasible as it is possible to map the faster that they change. Doing that for timetables is not going to work. In addition, OSM data format is optimized for mapping buildings and horrible for mapping timetables. I hope that in my mapping I will not encounter p

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Then, why OSM as they are some competent national geographic societies ? ;-) Julien « djakk » Le mer. 7 nov. 2018 à 16:19, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit : > 7. Nov 2018 16:15 by djakk.dj...@gmail.com: > > Only a independent and crowdsourced database can handle that. > > > Competent public transport

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Hi, On 07.11.2018 14:35, Jonathon Rossi wrote: > I've been following along the few threads to better understand this > topic, however I'm still feeling that mapping complex timetables is a > bit like mapping the full menu of a cafe or restaurant, or the room > options at a hotel. These things vary

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

7. Nov 2018 16:15 by djakk.dj...@gmail.com : > Only a independent and crowdsourced database can handle that. Competent public transport company also can do it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https:

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I do not agree with your last argument, it is like « do not add residential roads before primary roads are all mapped » ;-) GTFS can have errors (I’ve worked with Paris’ GTFS, bus stops names in caps locks, sometimes misplaced), plus, as I said, does not reflect the reality (there was this train

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 2:15 PM OSMDoudou < 19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: > > including the GTFS endpoints and license info as tags, and maybe then > adding the ability to discover the GTFS Realtime extension would be the way > to go > > +1 > Although I've never used AOL, I

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

> including the GTFS endpoints and license info as tags, and maybe then adding the ability to discover the GTFS Realtime extension would be the way to go +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tag

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

That is something that OSM should map instead of the official timetable :) In Paris it is almost the same case, the bus does not follow their official timetable due to grid locks. Julien « djakk » Le mer. 7 nov. 2018 à 00:16, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 6. N

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

For example in Japan transit companies sells their timetable for about 1000€ ... maybe copying the timetable is forbidden but Osm can have at least an opening hour and a frequency for a line in Japan. An other example, the city of Accra (Ghana) : only share taxis, no transit authority, lines are al

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I've been following along the few threads to better understand this topic, however I'm still feeling that mapping complex timetables is a bit like mapping the full menu of a cafe or restaurant, or the room options at a hotel. These things vary whenever the service business chooses and it is close t

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

sent from a phone > On 6. Nov 2018, at 15:41, djakk djakk wrote: > > Martin, maybe locals do know their bus stop timetable, as they always use the > service they may memorize the schedules ... ? there are no timetables and the service is notoriously bad and infrequent, while management sca

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

:) Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 20:55, Yves a écrit : > Are you looking for a general transit feed specification? > :) > > Yves > > Le 6 novembre 2018 20:22:18 GMT+01:00, djakk djakk > a écrit : >> >> Ok I see. >> >> I am still a bit reluctant to your proposal since the travelling time >> between 2 st

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Indeed, a mapper who wants to add this and who can't find the information on the internet or in a booklet, would have travel to the first stop, take note of all the departure times and then establish the deltas between all the stops of the itinerary. If that's the case, such a mapper would probably

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Are you looking for a general transit feed specification? :) Yves Le 6 novembre 2018 20:22:18 GMT+01:00, djakk djakk a écrit : >Ok I see. > >I am still a bit reluctant to your proposal since the travelling time >between 2 stops can vary during the day, especially for train routes. >Ok there is

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Ok I see. I am still a bit reluctant to your proposal since the travelling time between 2 stops can vary during the day, especially for train routes. Ok there is the possibility of adding a new timetable relation ... Moreover, I think that data inputs from the ground can not be done with your pro

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Yes, very hard to debug and we already established some change every few months. So after a change from the operator. One traveler will update one of those schedules, Another may do so for 3 stops down the line, in the mean time the stops in between and after are not updated yet. A maintenance nigh

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I don’t get it ... With my point of view, one route with 15 stops has 15 timetables, each timetable describes the arrival time and the departure time of several trips at the stop. There must be the same number of trips along the stops’ timetables. (Otherwise this is an other route). You mean, if

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

If you have a single one for a stop/route pair, no problem. As soon as you have a few hundred and the information in them starts to conflict with other another timetable relation for the same route it will be extremely hard to figure out where it went wrong. Polyglot Op di 6 nov. 2018 om 17:08 sc

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

In which case a timetable per stop and per route is unmaintable ? Julien “djakk” Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:59, djakk djakk a écrit : > I think it is important to have an osm object describing the timetable > user-oriented for simple editing without any tool. > The mapper is at a bus stop, takes

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I think it is important to have an osm object describing the timetable user-oriented for simple editing without any tool. The mapper is at a bus stop, takes a picture of the timetable, can import it later in osm without the need of any extra tool. Validator can be inside a tool. Julien « djakk »

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Almost that ! Sometimes bus stops does not have their official timetable, the user have to refer to the closest previous bus stop having an official timetable. So this kind of bus stop may not have a timetable in osm (except an osm mapper really wants to put it into osm, knowing per habits the sche

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

You mean per stop/route pair? That's an incredible s amount of relations! It seems to me that it would be a nighmare to try and maintain it that way. At first sight it seems simpler, but with the new proposal i came up with, you can see how the stops of a variation in itinerary tie together. If th

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

... and/or an abbreviation with the frequency : departures=5:15 - 1:25 every 1:30 ~ 3 minutes (This is for Rennes’ subway line) Julien « djakk » Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:07, djakk djakk a écrit : > I’ll agree with Leif, having a timetable relation per stop is better. > > > Yes Leif, there can

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I’ll agree with Leif, having a timetable relation per stop is better. Yes Leif, there can be a delay expressed in minutes instead of an arrival-departure pair of time. Julien « djakk » Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:04, djakk djakk a écrit : > In order to reduce the length of the value of the dep

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

In order to reduce the length of the value of the departures= tag, should we allow this kind of abstraction level : departures=5:35 ; 6:35 ; [7-19]:[05;35] ; 20:35 ; 21:35 ? Julien « djakk » Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 15:41, djakk djakk a écrit : > Martin, maybe locals do know their bus stop timet

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Martin, maybe locals do know their bus stop timetable, as they always use the service they may memorize the schedules ... ? Julien Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 à 17:08, Jo a écrit : > Hi Leif, > > You made me do it! :-) I sort of stole your proposal and started creating > a new one. It differs in rathe

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Hi Leif, You made me do it! :-) I sort of stole your proposal and started creating a new one. It differs in rather important ways from your proposal, so I preferred not modifying your wiki page. I also think it's important to decouple the (voting for a) full timetable solution from the solution wh

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

You are right, for the concrete case of De Lijn it will be better to link to their realtime data from the stops and add a url to the route relations for the timetables. I'm merely using these as a test case, a proof of concept. I'm not planning to add all of them. I think it does make sense for the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

sent from a phone > On 3. Nov 2018, at 16:24, Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Polyglot: > I think that having a timetable relation for each stop is less complicated > than having one per route. In Rome there are no timetables for bus stops, there are theoretical departure times

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Considering De Lijn may share their data as GTFS, isn’t it a better effort to integrate instead of duplicate existing data? https://www.delijn.be/en/zakelijk-aanbod/reisinfodata/gebruik-onze-data.html___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org ht

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

I'm mostly experimenting to figure out what can work. My initial though was a relation per route/stop pair, but that means a lot of relations. Then I was thinking: it would be nice to have an idea about the approximate time to get to the next stop, which led to what I did now. Taking that idea a bi

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables

Polyglot: I think that having a timetable relation for each stop is less complicated than having one per route. There are several advantages to this: 1) People can easily add a single relation at a time, rather than having to do the entire line at one time. This could make it much easier to, for

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I have been using commas between the times, maybe semicolon would be better (not for readability though). Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 14:01 schreef djakk djakk : > Maybe we can put that optional piece of information inside the departures > key : departures=7:40,7:45 ; 8:40,8:45 -> means the train or the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I created a few more for a more 'complicated' line, which changes in length. Normal northbound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8886015 Shortened northbound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8886014 I used the same route relation twice, because for telescopic lines I only mapped the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Maybe we can put that optional piece of information inside the departures key : departures=7:40,7:45 ; 8:40,8:45 -> means the train or the bus arrives at the stop at 7:40 or 8:40 and leaves 5 minutes later. Arrival and departure time are separated by a comma, and different departures are separated

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

For buses it's exceptional they stay at a stop longer than strictly necessary, so I think the arrival times should be optional. If the tag is added, it should have the same amount of entries as the departures though. Sometimes I do see buses that 'linger' at stops, but that's usually because they

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Jo, I did not try yet, but I think there should be a departure timetable AND an arrival timetable (trains often stop several minutes). And this, per stop. The mapper sees a timetable at a bus stop, he puts it directly into a relation associating the bus stop and the route. This enables to partiall

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I took it from the official timetables and generally this line doesn't suffer too much from congestion. But yes. If the timetable shows bigger variation in delay between stops over the day, then another method would be necessary. Obviously this is what the operator plans to happen. In practice bus

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

So this assumes that bus travels for the same time between stops both during night andduring rush hour? 3. Nov 2018 11:19 by winfi...@gmail.com : > When done this way, the departures in the tags are for the stop with role > 00:00. > Jo > Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 11:09 sc

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

When done this way, the departures in the tags are for the stop with role 00:00. Jo Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 11:09 schreef Jo : > Hi, > > I'm looking into this timetable relation and how it could be implemented: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8885374/history > > This is for a simple line

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, I'm looking into this timetable relation and how it could be implemented: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8885374/history This is for a simple line... I added all the stops of the route relation and added the most common times to get from one to the next. I realise things can get eve

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

3. Nov 2018 05:55 by djakk.dj...@gmail.com : > I do not see why timetables are hard to maintain ? Most bus lines do not > change their schedules for years (even in big cities, Paris for example).   In my city (Kraków, Poland) schedules are changed multiple times

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 03/11/2018 04:55, djakk djakk wrote: I do not see why timetables are hard to maintain ? Most bus lines do not change their schedules for years (even in big cities, Paris for example). Because changing the schedule means buy a new bus and hire new drivers. OSM has been described as a "do

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Moreover, timetables in OSM can be useful even incomplete : a mapper can map only timetables of 2 bus stops, its local bus stop’s and the main stop of the line (downtown’s bus stop), then you can tell users the timetable between the bus stops of this suburb and downtown. Julien « djakk » Le sam.

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Yes I trust you ;) But where the bus network does not revolutionate (that exists) every 6 months, timetables and bus stops can be in OSM ... Julien « djakk » Le sam. 3 nov. 2018 à 06:20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> a écrit : > On 03/11/18 15:55, djakk djakk wrote: > > No : bus relations are b

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 03/11/18 15:55, djakk djakk wrote: No : bus relations are broken because of the way part, not because of the node part. And detailed timetables will be associated with the nodes. Breaking a bus relation by cutting a street way in half does not implies that the osm timetable breaks too. I

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

No : bus relations are broken because of the way part, not because of the node part. And detailed timetables will be associated with the nodes. Breaking a bus relation by cutting a street way in half does not implies that the osm timetable breaks too. I do not see why timetables are hard to maint

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

It sounds like we agree: detailed timetables for every bus stop are too much to maintain, but simple service hours and intervals assigned to a route are reasonable. This would be very useful for map rendering, because an intercity bus that runs every 10 minutes is quite different than one that run

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I'm siding with the idea of linking to an external data-base, as maintaining this in OSM is going to be a nightmare :-( On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 08:45, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > Sure! But how many GTFS feeds are there in the whole world, compared to > the number of towns with public transit? > > I’

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

“In cities that publish their GTFS timetables under free licenses which are kept current I don't see the point in duplicating this into OSM” Sure! But how many GTFS feeds are there in the whole world, compared to the number of towns with public transit? I’m guessing that in Europe perhaps the maj

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 at 19:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: > also burdens OSM with dead data that will not be properly maintained. This is my experience too, I've seen people add bus routes from their surveys into OSM but they quickly become out of date and aren't maintained. Some roads can have 100+ bu

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Impossible to maintain ? Maybe but let’s give a try ! djakk Le ven. 2 nov. 2018 à 08:23, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 1. Nov 2018, at 21:19, Roland Olbricht > wrote: > > > > opening_hours=... > >for the operation times > > > I’d suggest to use service_ti

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

sent from a phone > On 1. Nov 2018, at 21:19, Roland Olbricht wrote: > > opening_hours=... >for the operation times I’d suggest to use service_times which has the same syntax as opening hours but seems semantically more precise. Cheers, Martin _

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I do not agree with adding schedules of departures to OSM, where I live would be almost impossible to maintain, more than 200 bus routes, most with frequencies less than 20 minutes, with more than 50 stops each route, stops with 15 different routes , the frequencies vary according to the time of d

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

The timetable proposal would not affect existing OSM data. It would simply add new relations having existing features as members of those relations. If timetables are out of date for a certain route, a contributor could simply delete all of the timetable relations that are parents of that route.

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, Hint: you may get more qualified feedback if you use the talk-transit@ mailing list. This tagging@ list is a generalist mailing list intended to gather people with a passion to write mails. One thing we could investigate is some sort of indication whether a bus or train route tagged in O

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