Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-02 Thread Marc Lavallée
Just a thought: assuming that all multi-channel "audio nodes" (loudspeaker + amplifier + IP audio) are powered from a common AC circuit, you could try powerline networking. Marc Le 01/06/2019 à 17:25, Augustine Leudar a écrit : by line of sght - I mean we do installations that have walls , de

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-02 Thread Chris Woolf
On 01/06/2019 22:25, Augustine Leudar wrote: by line of sght - I mean we do installations that have walls , dence trees and foliage , all sorts of stuff in the way - so IR , though it looks like a neat idea and I think preferable to wifi in some ways - wouldnt work for us Even wifi fails in some

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Augustine Leudar
by line of sght - I mean we do installations that have walls , dence trees and foliage , all sorts of stuff in the way - so IR , though it looks like a neat idea and I think preferable to wifi in some ways - wouldnt work for us Even wifi fails in some situations where walls are thick. On Sat, 1 J

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Stefan Schreiber
Citando Augustine Leudar : sounds great  -  but can it reflect through castle walls ? - - I wouldn’t count on such effects... St. On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 at 19:50, Stefan Schreiber wrote: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi “Direct line of sight is not necessary for Li-Fi to transmit a

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Augustine Leudar
sounds great - but can it reflect through castle walls ? On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 at 19:50, Stefan Schreiber wrote: > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi > > “Direct line of sight is not necessary for Li-Fi to transmit a signal; > light reflected off the walls can achieve 70 Mbit/s[1].” > > It all

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Stefan Schreiber
Sursound does not get Swedish letters? I would say this is sursound’s fault; we have 2019... Stefan P.S.: ASCII 128 forever... Citando David Pickett : I am sure it is not Bo-Erik's fault, but I am still getting "highly encoded" words and odd passages in the middle of messages, see below!

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread David Pickett
I am sure it is not Bo-Erik's fault, but I am still getting "highly encoded" words and odd passages in the middle of messages, see below! David At 20:22 01-06-19, you wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hyunchae_Chun/publication/259889506_A_3-Gbs_singl

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Stefan Schreiber
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi “Direct line of sight is not necessary for Li-Fi to transmit a signal; light reflected off the walls can achieve 70 Mbit/s[1].” It all works in a very similar fashion as this “soundbar marketing B.S.“...  < g >  Best, Stefan P.S.: Hu? Eh?! 😉 Citand

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hyunchae_Chun/publication/259889506_A_3-Gbs_single-LED_OFDM-based_wireless_VLC_link_using_a_gallium_nitride_m_LED/links/577cd2f708ae355e74f2b06d/A-3-Gb-s-single-LED-OFDM-based-wireless-VLC-link-using-a-gallium-nitride-m-LED.pdf 3 Gb/s on common led... I Don't g

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread David Pickett
Eh? D :) At 19:01 01-06-19, you wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64Optical digital bandwidth using LED as a transmitter is without problem 1+ Mbit/s. Different designs have differet limits. B Den lör 1 juni 2019 13:49David Pickett skrev: > At 11:14 01-06-19, Chris Woolf wrote: ˆ•Ú[H

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
Optical digital bandwidth using LED as a transmitter is without problem 1+ Mbit/s. Different designs have differet limits. B Den lör 1 juni 2019 13:49David Pickett skrev: > At 11:14 01-06-19, Chris Woolf wrote: > > >While line-of-sight is a limitation I have been impressed by how > >well confe

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread David Pickett
At 11:14 01-06-19, Chris Woolf wrote: While line-of-sight is a limitation I have been impressed by how well conference translation systems using IR headphones have worked in practice, and can imagine that a little planning and elevation could overcome this issue. Yes, but dont forget, this i

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Augustine Leudar
"I'm deeply ~unimpressed~ by how poor 5GHz Wi-Fi signals are at penetrating solid walls and diffracting or reflecting round objects. " Thatss exactly the issues we found at several shows. We do a lot of stuff wher eline of site would simply be impossible though. On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 at 10:16, Chr

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-06-01 Thread Chris Woolf
On 31/05/2019 20:57, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote: https://fmarques.org/ronja-diy-optical-data/ If you want to diy instead of buying, seems like a complete design. Optical distribution of data/digital sound. Thanks for the link, and the research. While line-of-sight is a limitation I have been im

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-31 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
https://fmarques.org/ronja-diy-optical-data/ If you want to diy instead of buying, seems like a complete design. Optical distribution of data/digital sound. Den fre 31 maj 2019 21:22Bo-Erik Sandholm skrev: > Line of sight is necessary, but there is no bandwidth issues. > 10 years ago I built

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-31 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
Line of sight is necessary, but there is no bandwidth issues. 10 years ago I built a simple IR link kit for 16bit 44.1 kHz. Den fre 31 maj 2019 15:30Chris Woolf skrev: > > On 28/05/2019 13:34, David Pickett wrote: > > ... > > I tell myself that it should not be too difficult to make decent >

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-31 Thread Chris Woolf
On 28/05/2019 13:34, David Pickett wrote: ... I tell myself that it should not be too difficult to make decent hi-res transmit and receive modules. I could use these for links from spot mikes in concerts where these have to pass the audience to get to the recorder, and also between my monito

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread David Pickett
At 16:48 28-05-19, you wrote: We have good, full-bandwidth solutions for wireless microphones. Also for wireless performance monitors. Nothing that combines these functions. Yes, I know about such things, but standard wireless mics dont use the AKG C12 capsules that I build into my mics, dont

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread mgraves mstvp . com
t.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S. Last year I hacked a "low latency" (~100ms) stereo RTP streaming software between OSX and a Raspberry Pi. A possible solution would be, as Bo Erik suggested, to stream 4-channel on a musticast wifi network, then decode it

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread David Pickett
At 14:19 28-05-19, you wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64Last year I hacked a "low latency" (~100ms) stereo RTP streaming software between OSX and a Raspberry Pi. A possible solution would be, as Bo Erik suggested, to stream 4-channel on a musticast wifi network, then decode it on 4 RPIs (

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Marc Lavallée
Last year I hacked a "low latency" (~100ms) stereo RTP streaming software between OSX and a Raspberry Pi. A possible solution would be, as Bo Erik suggested, to stream 4-channel on a musticast wifi network, then decode it on 4 RPIs (or similar boards), making sure they are in sync (using PTP).

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Augustine Leudar
This looks really cool Bo- Erik On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 11:11, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote: > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301482315_Improving_Indoor_Localization_Using_Bluetooth_Low_Energy_Beacons > > This is from 2016 , I belive there have been progress since then... > So we can get lo

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Augustine Leudar
Weve tried local wifi networks at shows before but it was a bit unreliable for droppouts etc then again so is Bluetooth. FOr home us it would be fine. Four plug sockets might be a bit more doable than audio cables as well. Wasn't there someone on here who was doing something DIY with the rasberry

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301482315_Improving_Indoor_Localization_Using_Bluetooth_Low_Energy_Beacons This is from 2016 , I belive there have been progress since then... So we can get localisation info, next step ? Bo-Erik Den tis 28 maj 2019 kl 10:56 skrev Richard Dobson : > > >

Re: [Sursound] Sursound Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Dave Hunt
Dave Hunt On 27 May 2019, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: > From: Augustine Leudar > Subject: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S. > Date: 27 May 2019 14:44:28 BST > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > > /beginrant : According to the arti

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Richard Dobson
On 28/05/2019 08:49, Augustine Leudar wrote: wow : .. It would be great if someone could just invent bluetooth quad (or more) then you could happily just deposit four cable free bluetooth speakers around the room and be done with all this nonsense. ... Slightly a propos to this: in his 2

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
The Speakers won't be wireless as you probably want them to be powered. But it should be easy with bluetooth 4.0 or Wi-Fi direct to create a solution. Normal Wi-Fi could be used. The low cost esp8266 makes this possible in a diy setup... Stream a 4 channel audiostream to the 4 speakers. Have a s

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Augustine Leudar
wow : https://youtu.be/KrVGTqRftKY Problem is as most engineers know the result of room reflections is generally comb filtering not increased spatialisation. Even if you could somehow get this to work the time of the reflections would depend on room size, the materials on the wall etc etc. It wou

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-28 Thread Augustine Leudar
Thats interesting - ive always wanted to hear transaural actually working - I've only tried Spat. However this would require the content producers (sound designers) to actually add HRTFs and use software to render trnasaural filters the same as binaural - and most d not , genrally its just the same

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Marc Lavallée
Le 27/05/2019 à 20:55, Aaron Heller a écrit : The soundbars I've heard sound like they use crosstalk cancellation (aka transaural stereo) to achieve surround effects. I believe the work of Edgar Choueiri and his students at Princeton represents the state of the art in that area. https://www.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Aaron Heller
The soundbars I've heard sound like they use crosstalk cancellation (aka transaural stereo) to achieve surround effects. I believe the work of Edgar Choueiri and his students at Princeton represents the state of the art in that area. https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/index.html Also Ralph Glasgal,

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Augustine Leudar
Hi Douglas - I dont think he was referring to Atmos soundbars just Atmos in general . Atmos will of course work nicely being a 9.1 (or is it 11.1 ?) bed with objects operating within that over an unlimited number of speakers (or is it 128 max) - as such its true surround (in that the speakers od

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Douglas Murray
> On May 27, 2019, at 12:09 PM, mgraves mstvp.com wrote: > > See also Dolby Atmos. Yet another triumph of marketing over reality. Dolby is > especially good in that arena. > > Michael Graves Michael, Are you referring to the Dolby Atmos sound bars and ceiling bouncing speakers? If so I agre

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Augustine Leudar
round Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S. > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 02:44:28PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > > /beginrant : According to the article below soundbars work not as any > > kind of knockoff WFS but by "

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread mgraves mstvp . com
Fons Adriaensen Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 1:45 PM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S. On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 02:44:28PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: > /beginrant : According to the article below soundbars work not as any >

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Fons Adriaensen
On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 02:44:28PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: > /beginrant : According to the article below soundbars work not as any kind > of knockoff WFS but by "bouncing" sound off the walls tro get it to appear > to be behind you. How can it be that this actually sells and is endorrsed >

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Justin Bennett
/ > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 14:44:28 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S. > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=&q

[Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

2019-05-27 Thread Augustine Leudar
/beginrant : According to the article below soundbars work not as any kind of knockoff WFS but by "bouncing" sound off the walls tro get it to appear to be behind you. How can it be that this actually sells and is endorrsed by industry "proffesionals" and "experts" ? when anyone can quite clearly