I can think of two additional accessibility objectives but both only apply
in special cases. For a case of a program in which a user has the
opportunity to choose colors which will be used as part of the program's
hard copy output (stuff sighted co-workers or managers or clients) will
review a
Hi,
You asked what Kiwi Keys is? It is a typing tutor currently under
developement by VIPBC.org that can be compared most notably with
Talking Typer for Windows, but when finished it will have more
functionality.
Thanks,
Alex,
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You re
nding Blind User's Needs
Hi,
Except like in Kiwi Keys where you can use Voiceover, but the commands are
spoken by the Speech Manager.
Thanks,
Alex,
On 9-Mar-09, at 1:23 PM, Mark Baxter wrote:
>
> I've waited until now to put my bit in, but here it is:
> Using self-voi
pple has
> provided the tools to make an application completely accessible. A
> self
> voicing program normally should not be needed.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jacob Schmude"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Understanding B
sible. A
> self
> voicing program normally should not be needed.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jacob Schmude"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
>
>>
>> Hi Krister
>> I&#x
09 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
> Hi Krister
> I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac
> platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional
> program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the
He means individual program commands not VO commands.
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already
tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic
strip.
El 09/03/2009, a las 15:31, David Poehlman escribió:
>
> we can already bring up a list of key
we can already bring up a list of keyboard commands in voiceover.
On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:
I think there is some misunderstanding about what these descriptions
would be, but it seems the general consensus is that this sort of
thing is better left in the manual. Th
Hi,
Except like in Kiwi Keys where you can use Voiceover, but the commands
are spoken by the Speech Manager.
Thanks,
Alex,
On 9-Mar-09, at 1:23 PM, Mark Baxter wrote:
>
> I've waited until now to put my bit in, but here it is:
> Using self-voicing programs is sort of disrespectful to those
I think there is some misunderstanding about what these descriptions
would be, but it seems the general consensus is that this sort of
thing is better left in the manual. The ability to bring up a list of
all the keyboard commands would be extremely useful to all users so
I'll definitely lo
I wouldn't rely on the next cat for any of this.
You know we have had people commenting before that they would like
webpages to describe themselves like under win, (6 headings, 81 links,
2 frames" etc… maybe we could use something like this in an
application. What someone could suggest to
I think he's talking about a window description a bit more in depth
than just an inquiry into the name of the window/application in
focus. Like "tool bar with such and such buttons, side bar to the
left with source items, main view to the right with such and such."
Is that right? I thin
we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard
comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance vo.
On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:
Hi David,
Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current
application and how
Hi Martin,
Have you tried putting on headphones, and using the voiceover sounds
as you move around the screen? Voiceover has different audio queues as
you move from line to line. Also, as you go from left to right on a
single line, the effects for buttons and objects move from left to
right
9 mar 2009 kl. 21.45 skrev Martin Pilkington:
> I'm talking more about describing what UI elements are on the window
> and where they are. For example "On the left of the screen is the
> source list, it shows all your groups. In the top right in a list of
> all your items".
This sounds li
Hi David,
Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current
application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just
reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about
describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For
example "On t
I've waited until now to put my bit in, but here it is:
Using self-voicing programs is sort of disrespectful to those who
designed VoiceOver into Leopard in the first place. If someone has a
problem with the speech, then adjust VO settings. Self voicing is
like re-inventing the wheel; why
this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the
display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into
voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short
or long labels.
as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see
Hi Scott,
Here's my website URL for those who are interested: http://www.mcubedsw.com
. The blog post in which I first talked about accessibility is here:
http://www.mcubedsw.com/blog/index.php?/site/comments/the_accessible_mac/
Thanks
-
Martin Pilkington
Writ
Hi David,
Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What
I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than
what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection,
I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into
thi
El 08/03/2009, a las 23:34, David Poehlman escribió:
>
> look at firevox to understand this.
Or katie player.
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To post to this group, send email
Hi Krister
I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac
platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional
program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the fact
that Voiceover is right there for developers to test and with which
they can mak
isionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user
> is using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into i
Hi,
Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially
made program for the blind or an application that both blind and
sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes?
You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's
relevant since what i'
, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user
> is using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into it.
> If OS X doesn't
Ryan, excellent description and you are right on target, that was the
point I was trying to make. :)
On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Ryan Dour wrote:
> As a great example, an app like Boxee would be amazing with self
> voicing menus. Boxee is a media center app like FrontRow, but able
> to do mu
Chris, you make some good points, but self-voicing applications, no,
that would realy be unnecessary. VoiceOver does a fine job of handling
the text to speech function, I see no value in making applications
self-voicing in most cases and nor is it typically a good investment
for the return
Martin, you have certainly covered a number of areas and I am sure you
have already been to Apple's accessibility site,
http://www.apple.com/accessibility
. You can bet this list will be a valuable resource for getting your
questions answered. I will say that it is folks like yourself that ca
Martin,
I'd be happy to test any vo compatible apps you develop or that you
know of that are developped. this is 100 ercent accessibility. I
don't know what software you write or have written but would encourage
youto stick to apple accessibility apis and work with apple if
something is
self voicing should never be needed and in all 3rd party cases I've
seen it implemented for the mac os it is disasterous. you only need
look at firevox to understand this.
On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:41 PM, Michael Babcock wrote:
very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option isn'
You should be talking to greg kearny.
On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Ryan Dour wrote:
As a great example, an app like Boxee would be amazing with self
voicing menus. Boxee is a media center app like FrontRow, but able to
do much more. However, that doesn't help any of us, as it doesn't have
h
it is not possible to do braille display detection for your purposes
on the mac os.
On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:
Hi Chris,
I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user is
using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into it. If
OS
then, I'd love! for you to follow me. My
twitter URL is:
http://twitter.com/chris28210
- Original Message -
From: Martin Pilkington
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi Chris,
I'
Pilkington
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
>
> I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user
> is
> using a braille display
we already have this in vo.
On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:
Hi Tiffany,
This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview
giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at
any point and have it read to you. It would be written spec
Self voicing defeats the purpose of Voice-over and causes undo work on the
part of the developer. What Ryan was saying about Boxy makes sense, but to
self-voice an app that can already be used by voiceover seems almost
overboard. Also, if you selfvoice an app, how do you account for dynamic
text th
Hi Martin,
First, thank you for making your programs accessible.
Second, I would like to share my brief thoughts on the subject. I like
your five objectives a lot. I think that if you can achieve all five
of them, no further work will be necessary on your part.
Some others have encouraged you t
Well, it seems to me that VoiceOver does a fine job. There is no need
for each developer to rewrite a screen reader in to every application.
Rather than make an application self-voicing, write hooks for
voiceover, or use standard controls. I hate configuring each
application's self-voicing
--
From: Martin Pilkington
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hmm, I guess I'm just a little confused about what benefit this would have
over voice over. Voice over is on every mac so it&#
Hi Tiffany,
This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview
giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at
any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically
for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where when
Hmm, I guess I'm just a little confused about what benefit this would
have over voice over. Voice over is on every mac so it's not like
you'd ever been in a situation where you don't have voice access.
Unless there's something I'm not understanding it seems like it would
be an awful lot of
> http://twitter.com/chris28210
> - Original Message -
> From: Martin Pilkington
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
>
> I'm not
al Message -
From: Martin Pilkington
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi Chris,
I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user is using
a braille display or not, but
Hi Chris,
I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user is
using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into it. If
OS X doesn't allow me to give different descriptions to braille
devices I'll try and get in touch with developers at Apple to see if
they ca
As a great example, an app like Boxee would be amazing with self
voicing menus. Boxee is a media center app like FrontRow, but able to
do much more. However, that doesn't help any of us, as it doesn't have
hooks for Voiceover. The interface is not one that uses standard
windows and objects.
08, 2009 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option isn't a 100%
thing, in some apps it would truly be nice.
mike
On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
I think it would be cool to use t
very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option isn't
a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice.
mike
On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system
> preferences and make it where the program can be
I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system preferences
and make it where the program can be self voiceing if needed. Also provide an
option to turn on, or off the self voicing feature, this way if a user wants to
use voice over, great, if not, he or she still can do what n
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