Hi Ben, this is the Springfield school district, right next to Eugene, Oregon
where we live that uses all macs. what they use in their district offices, I
haven't a clue. but in the schools themselves, its mac all the way according to
my better half.
Mary
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Dear Mary,
What school district is this? This is fantastic!
Those lucky children. I hope you have a wonderful day.
Blessings,
Ben King
On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> the school system where my husband teaches here in Oregon uses all macs. I
> don't know if others do or not.
>
the school system where my husband teaches here in Oregon uses all macs. I
don't know if others do or not.
Mary
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Ah,
Ok. I guess this might have much to do with States or regions. At least in
NYC its rare to see a Mac in a school or library now a days
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> Well, I saw the macs in my own schools starting in about 1986 when I was in
> second grade. But as I s
Well, I saw the macs in my own schools starting in about 1986 when I was in
second grade. But as I said, my children, the oldest of whom is eight, use macs
in their school. I checked into it, and the entire district as well as several
surrounding it also use macs.
Friendly,
Chris
On Jun 23, 20
Hi,
I saw a Mack in school since 1997, when I was in first grade. They've been in
the schools in my county ever since. And they have them at the college that I'm
currently attending.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> I don't know,
>
> The last time I saw a Mac in a school I
I don't know,
The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old. This was in 1994.
all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one. The public
libraries all use windows PCs as well. How far back are you guys talking about
since you've seen Macs in schools? I don't mean to
om: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:39 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Not totally sure on that minority claim.
fro many many years, apple had the apple core program whe
I hate to say it this way, but I agree with you about the NFB. I don't think
you could have said it any better (smiley). All the school systems I have been
through had Macks, the first computer I ever started with was a Mack, I guess
it was an Apple 2, not sure though.
Courtney
On Jun 23, 2010,
Not totally sure on that minority claim.
fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated
apple computers to schools around the country.
I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers
we had were apple computers.
You might be surprised how many
that is why I can't stand the NFB but then again a rich attourney runs it, or
used to, so what do you expect. he has disposable income
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I
> was little, we had Apple 2E and 2
That's very interesting! I had never heard MS was interested in developing a
screen reader. I thought their position was always it was better left to third
party vendors.
Of course back then MS was also under pressure for forcing people to take
Internet Explorer as part of the OS. I wonder ho
every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh
computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority. It
> really has no baring on Br
at the risk of starting a blindness organization flame war, I respectfully
disagree with the assertion that the national Federation of the blind
supposedly did the blindest community harm in this area.
I think rather than involve ourselves and dedicated finger-pointing, we might
want to get bac
Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I was
little, we had Apple 2E and 2GS computers, and when I got to high school, we
had the mac SE and other models. Now that my own children are in school,
they're learning on iMacs. Apple has always been involved with k-12
oups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Rob Lambert
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high school's
library, as well as mobile la
Hi,
I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority. It
really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high
> school's library, as well as mobile labs
In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high
school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around
here, are Mac-based.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the
Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the
National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, they
were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind people
out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato wa
The largest contract available to the blindness industry is the Veterans
Administration; then on second tier come state agencies. On third
tier are all of the educational establishments that end up having to
comply with Section 508 and other Sections like 504 and finally After that
are the sel
> Lynn Schneider wrote:
>
> I purchased my first Apple computer about three months ago. I will never
> forget the feeling of complete surprise and joy at being able to just
> turn the iMac on and get it talking within minutes. Microsoft is not to
> blame
> for not h
PC . I doubt that I'm the only one who has done that. I
>> have linux on my laptop so that's another sale they missed out on in a way.
>> And while right now I have a Pac Mate, next time I'll probably go with an
>> Iphone.
>>
>> I don't know...
widget you could just use the google dashboard widget, f12, and there
you are then.
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I have an MBP15 with the glass track pad, and I was under the
impression I could use gestures and the commander with it, but I
haven't gotten SL yet, am still using the same old spotted kitty.
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don't know how you can say that jaws misses
>>>> more
>>>> than voiceover. You've given 3 significant examples of things voiceover
>>>> misses and just one fairly obscure thing for jaws and windows.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, it would
misses
>>> more
>>> than voiceover. You've given 3 significant examples of things voiceover
>>> misses and just one fairly obscure thing for jaws and windows.
>>>
>>> Plus, it would seem to me that if you can use the jaws cursor to get
>&g
*whimper* I have *GOT* to get SL.
Mark BurningHawk Baxter
AIM, Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969
MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
My home page:
http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
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On some machines, like my spanking new MacBook Pro for instance, F4 (or if
you've set up function keys for software, FN+F4) also brings up the dashboard.
It's interesting to note that my old macBook has a couple keyboard differences.
(This is the 2007, pre-Leopard MacBook, Core2 Duo 2.16 GHz, 2G
omething done, that's a point in favor of jaws, not against it.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Chris Hofstader"
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>>
&g
jaws, not against it.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Hofstader"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> I actually think VO provides much better support for the stuff that ships
ll probably go with an
> Iphone.
>
> I don't know... Maybe FS can afford to lose all that business as long as I
> still have jaws on my work computer.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Hofstader"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2
02, 2009 3:14 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> Why not just do
> for windows:
> Alt CTRL I to bring up Explorer, which you've conveniently assigned to
> that hot key and which conveniently comes up with Google as your home
&g
Sorry, I mean F12.
Mark BurningHawk Baxter
AIM, Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969
MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
My home page:
http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
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F11.
Mark BurningHawk Baxter
AIM, Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969
MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
My home page:
http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
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> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> Why not just do
> for windows:
> Alt CTRL I to bring up Explorer, which you've conveniently assigned to
> that hot key and which conveniently comes up with Google as your home
> page.
> I don'
What's the command to brinb up the dashboard again?
-Original Message-
From: Mark BurningHawk Baxter [mailto:markbaxte...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Why not just do
for windows:
Alt
many keystrokes it takes to do
> certain common tasks in voiceover & MacOS vs jaws & windows. I already
> posted on googling "wikipedia". Other ideas:
>
> 1. Send an email message
> 2. Connect to a samba share
> 3. Create a text file and save it to your desktop
t if you can use the jaws cursor to get
> something done, that's a point in favor of jaws, not against it.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Hofstader"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the M
Why not just do
for windows:
Alt CTRL I to bring up Explorer, which you've conveniently assigned to
that hot key and which conveniently comes up with Google as your home
page.
I don't recall what took the place of F for forms mode, but that's a
keystroke, enter your search term, enter. press
ba share
> 3. Create a text file and save it to your desktop
>
>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Just a very quick comment. I don't disagree with the some of the
>&g
and I've always
>>>> been disappointed with jaws support for excel. In a professional
>>>> environment I encounter spreadsheets almost daily that uses vba buttons
>>>> embedded in cells that jaws cannot see. this has been a problem forever
&g
nclude accessibility of third party applications even if you have to
>>>> download add-ons to make them accessible. After all, who cares where the
>>>> accessibility features come from as long as they work?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'm not necessar
s the ones it takes to enter the URL and the search term.
> But that is definately taking advantage of the operating system. I do not
> know if there is an equivalent feature in MacOS.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Howell"
> To:
> Sent: We
- Original Message -
From: "Esther"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
> Hi John,
>
> John G. Heim wrote:
>>
>> Actually, in Windows, there is a quicker way to get to a web site
>> than the
>&
something done, that's a point in favor of jaws, not against it.
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
I actually think VO provides much better support for the stuff that ships
inst
ght now I have a Pac Mate, next time I'll probably go with an
Iphone.
I don't know... Maybe FS can afford to lose all that business as long as I
still have jaws on my work computer.
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1
& MacOS vs jaws & windows. I already
posted on googling "wikipedia". Other ideas:
1. Send an email message
2. Connect to a samba share
3. Create a text file and save it to your desktop
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
> Hi
t; can be a subjective measurment. Does the same keystroke move from one
>>>>> input
>>>>> field to the next? And finally, you can get an idea of the percentage of
>>>>> inaccessible controls in operating system applications. In fact, you
>>
ailto:jh...@math.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:37 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> Well, you're all over the place in terms of the debate itself here. Do you
> think this is a matter of personal pref
d finally, you can get an idea of the percentage of
>>>> inaccessible controls in operating system applications. In fact, you could
>>>> even include accessibility of third party applications even if you have to
>>>> download add-ons to make them accessible. After all, who
Hi John,
John G. Heim wrote:
>
> Actually, in Windows, there is a quicker way to get to a web site
> than the
> way I've mentioned above. You can press windows+r, enter a URL, and
> press
> enter. That could take the place of steps 1 & 2 and leaves us at 8
> keystrokes besides the ones it take
the market.
>>>
>>> Obviously, that decision was somewhat controversial at the time. I argued
>>> that it made no sense to think that narrator could be at once too crummy
>>> to
>>> be used and at the same time good enough to drive jFS and GWM out of
>
s almost daily that uses vba buttons
>>> embedded in cells that jaws cannot see. this has been a problem forever and
>>> fs has never done anything to solve this issue thru out office not just
>>> excel.
>>>
>>> I believe web 2.0 is going to reek havoc for
ng to reek havoc for screen reader users for
> many years regardless of the screen reader.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Hofstader [mailto:c...@hofstader.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:22 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subj
e the
>>> accessibility features come from as long as they work?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying that my opinion is right. But your
>>> contention that its impossible to compare jaws and voiceover is incorrect.
>>>
>>> -
ember 02, 2009 1:37 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Well, you're all over the place in terms of the debate itself here. Do you
think this is a matter of personal preference or not? If so, you shouldn't
say I'm being unfair.
Anyway, lets do a test.
o enter the URL and the search term.
But that is definately taking advantage of the operating system. I do not
know if there is an equivalent feature in MacOS.
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Howell"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Eco
ownload add-ons to make them accessible. After all, who cares where the
>> accessibility features come from as long as they work?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying that my opinion is right. But your
>> contention that its impossible to compare jaws and voiceover is inco
of business if they'd
> improved narrator, FS and GWM are facing that same pressure as a result of
> voiceover and nvda anyway.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Hofstader"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Economic
this issue thru out office not just excel.
>>
>> I believe web 2.0 is going to reek havoc for screen reader users for many
>> years regardless of the screen reader.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:
ur
> contention that its impossible to compare jaws and voiceover is
> incorrect.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Howell"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> John, I think that is a v
;>> readers, voiceover, nvda, and orca. But certainly, that's another point
>>> against the NFB position.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I don't think I'd like to switch to voiceover or nvda
>>> full-time. They are not quite up to the standar
> Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying that my opinion is right. But your
> contention that its impossible to compare jaws and voiceover is incorrect.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Howell"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:19 PM
>
access to Windows operating system functions
than
voiceover does for macos. For example, try configuring ldap/
ActiveDirectory
authentication on a Mac.
- Original Message -
From: "James & Nash"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the
quot;Chris Hofstader"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Ted Henter, at the 1996 NFB convention made the argument in a speech he
delivered that an MS solution would never be as comprehensive as JAWS or one
of the other screen access tools
mber 01, 2009 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
John, I think that is a very unfair statement. To say that VoiceOver is not
up to the standard set by JAWS is inaccurate. That is like comparing windows
and the Mac OS. Sure, they both are operating systems, but they are very
different
Nash"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Hi,
I'm not looking to upset anyone, but can I ask why do you think that VO and
NVDA are not quite up to the standard set by JFW and We?
Mac OS X 10.6 set the VO bar extremely high. This release h
ge-
> From: Chris Hofstader [mailto:c...@hofstader.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:22 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
> I think VO does a poor job with spreadsheets, containing none of the semantic
> navigation features
many years
regardless of the screen reader.
-Original Message-
From: Chris Hofstader [mailto:c...@hofstader.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:22 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
I think VO does a poor job with spreadsheets, containing n
, nvda, and orca. But certainly, that's another point
>> against the NFB position.
>>
>> On the other hand, I don't think I'd like to switch to voiceover or nvda
>> full-time. They are not quite up to the standard set by jaws yet.
>>
>> - Or
quite up to the standard set by jaws yet.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Lynn Schneider"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> I purchased my first Apple computer about three months ago. I wil
- Original Message -
> From: "Lynn Schneider"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> I purchased my first Apple computer about three months ago. I will never
> forget the feeling of complete sur
nst the NFB position.
On the other hand, I don't think I'd like to switch to voiceover or nvda
full-time. They are not quite up to the standard set by jaws yet.
- Original Message -
From: "Lynn Schneider"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Econ
e up to the standard set by jaws yet.
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Schneider"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
>
>
> I purchased my first Apple computer about three months ago. I will n
That's why I'm able to sit here and write this;My employer changed its software
and I've had nothing but problems since. I won't go into details, but for the
most part, I've been out of work for months now. I've often commented that if
they only had Apple based software, I don't think we would
yet another problem for blind and visually-impaired workers is,
technology is changing so rapidly, by the time you getsaid
screenreader, or even hardware, your machine is either outdated or the
technology for it becomes obsolete, and companies pull support without
notice which, leaves sort
t: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
Hi Lynn,
Well-said. There are many blind individuals who wish to keep the status
quo, and anybody who suggests otherwise is often criticized. I've been on
enough lists to see that happen. It's a pleasure being
d, I don't think I'd like to switch to voiceover or nvda
full-time. They are not quite up to the standard set by jaws yet.
- Original Message -
From: "Lynn Schneider"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac
I purchased my fi
One thing that needs to be addressed here is that there are employers who can't
afford to provide the necessary items needed for their visually impaired
employees to do the job. Whether you think that's just an excuse for them or
not, The bottom line is that I didn't have access to computers e
mark, that is a very good question and one if I can find sufficient time, I'd
like to dig into. I think it would make sense that a product such as the Mac
fit into this category because of the universal access. I think you could argue
either way, but likely the argument would still lean more tow
Okay, so I let my disgust for the governments' disregard for women
spill over onto the list, but having seen far too many women scarred
by abuse and saddled with kids they didn't want because of ... well,
let's just say I land on the feminist side of this one all the way.
But, that having
This touches on something I neglected to say (shocking, isn't it? :) )
yesterday: Thinking outside the box, especially when around the
sighted, often creates jealousy. This creates even more alienation;
if you threatened the power elite by showing them that their power is
at best illusory
The Windows AT vendors and to a large extent some of the advocacy groups argue
that MS should not try to include accessibility out of the box. The AT vendors
want, of course to protect their turf, but do so with the notion that MS will
screw it up and cannot be relied upon to actually make it w
I CC'd the bs list on this post and I think we should probably move it there...
The operative phrase in your post is "from your employer" which points us to a
chicken and egg problem - people can't get jobs until they learn to use a
screen reader and they can't really get a screen reader (or com
Senators Harkin, Hagel, the late Kennedy and Feingold (perhaps others) did
discuss an access technology provision but got slapped down by both parties for
adding cost to the bill. Some might argue that the ADA restoration act of 2008
(signed by President Bush in August of last year without muc
Ah lets not mix issues here. I think there is a good argument to an insurance
company paying some portion of a screen reader if they cover things like
wheelchairs etc. At the risk of spinning this into an issue of politics, one is
something you have no control over and the other you do to a larg
Hi Lynn,
Well-said. There are many blind individuals who wish to keep the status quo,
and anybody who suggests otherwise is often criticized. I've been on enough
lists to see that happen. It's a pleasure being on this list, as the intent of
the list has really been maintained, to help each o
and we are supposed to have less access to a computer than the sighted because
it would be something in the platform just for us? That makes no sense. If I
ever need another Windows computer I hope that this group will buy me the
software needed as I can't afford it. What are they thinking?
I purchased my first Apple computer about three months ago. I will never
forget the feeling of complete surprise and joy at being able to just turn the
iMac on and get it talking within minutes. Microsoft is not to blame for not
having default Windows access out of the box, blind people are to
Are you kidding? they won't even pay for abortions for women who
really need them, I doubt anything funded by *our* government will pay
for a screen reader.
Mark BurningHawk Baxter
Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969
MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
My home page:
http://MarkBurningHawk.net
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