Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

> > Please consider adding the result of your hard work to the wiki. > > If you ended up using modules a natural place to put them would be > http://wiki.lyx.org/Layouts/Modules > > -- > Julien > > Thanks for the suggestion. Sure I will. Actually, I am wondering a more ambitious project. The curre

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 8:13 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: Everything is working like a charm. I also included the Requires natbib, which forces the inclusion of natbib in the UI. That is, I force the inclusion of natbib then I say that I'm already providing it. lol The last thing I wasn't able to avoid is the

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Le 26/04/2011 10:13, Jürgen Spitzmüller a écrit : At any rate, at least 90% of the bibliography gui stuff will have to be completely redone for biblatex. That's for sure. I do not deny it's a major task. I just think it will get better the more we try to abstract from a concrete package (biblat

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > Ok, some parts of the gui for bibtopic support may be reusable then. But > the bibtex-commands involved are different and the latex-commands are > different and the gui will have to give different options. So in the end I > really don't think it makes sense to try to mix the

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/26/2011 10:11 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what Lyx-developers choose to decide in 3-7 years, when LyX3.0 comes out. Make it 10 ;

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: >> I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what >> Lyx-developers choose to decide in 3-7 years, when LyX3.0 comes out. > > Make it 10 ;-) I like your optimism. Vincent

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what Lyx-developers choose to decide in 3-7 years, when LyX3.0 comes out. Make it 10 ;-) Some of us will be retired by then... Abdel.

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > ... > > > This is very rough and not very precise. So basically when you click on a > > bibliography in a file that is natbib based, it should ask you for what > > database file it is supposed to use. When you do the same in a biblatex

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Johannes Wilm wrote: > > > No, vice versa. A proper biblatex implementation will have to set the > > > correct > > > option depending on the selected processor. > > > > you can do that as long as biblatex still supports the bibtex execu

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what Lyx-developers choose to decide in 3-7 years, when LyX3.0 comes out. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Johannes Wilm wrote: > > This decision really doesn't have to be taken now. > > I really do not s

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > This decision really doesn't have to be taken now. I really do not see why we should postpone this decision. It's pretty clear to me that this is not matching our philosophy. Jürgen

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > > No, vice versa. A proper biblatex implementation will have to set the > > correct > > option depending on the selected processor. > > you can do that as long as biblatex still supports the bibtex executable. > As I understand it, this will not be much longer. Well, then t

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

This decision really doesn't have to be taken now. If/when TexLive decides to kick out natbib, there likely will be a good reason for it. That reason may or may not be good enough for LyX to follow suit. No-one stops anyone from using an older LyX-version of course. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:07 AM

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Johannes Wilm wrote: > > >> You can already choose custom processors. > > > > yes, but in this case it would have to be automatically chosen when a > > certain biblatex option is chosen. > > No, vice versa. A proper biblatex implementa

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > I understand your concerns. Maybe one way of doing it is to simply support > as much as one can of what is in TexLive. Once Jurabib and natbib are > removed from texlive then one can start to think about retire the function > from Lyx as well. This only shifts the problem. T

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > >> You can already choose custom processors. > > yes, but in this case it would have to be automatically chosen when a > certain biblatex option is chosen. No, vice versa. A proper biblatex implementation will have to set the correct option depending on the selected proce

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

I understand your concerns. Maybe one way of doing it is to simply support as much as one can of what is in TexLive. Once Jurabib and natbib are removed from texlive then one can start to think about retire the function from Lyx as well. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > Yes, well currently LyX is severely limited in the use of biblatex, the > system that has been the most popular for the past 5 years or so. The first officially stable biblatex version (1.0) is not even half a year old. The first to be declared "production ready" (0.7) is ~

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Richard Heck wrote: > On 04/24/2011 10:33 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: > >> >> Yes, this would maybe and partially work for citation commands. but just >> look at \parencites in biblatex and the use of normal () parenthesis. >> Programming something like this could be

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Yes, well currently LyX is severely limited in the use of biblatex, the system that has been the most popular for the past 5 years or so. Somewhere one has to make the cut-off, else LyX will just become gigantic and bloated. But anyways, I would be for keeping legacy support around until at least

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 10:33 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: Yes, this would maybe and partially work for citation commands. but just look at \parencites in biblatex and the use of normal () parenthesis. Programming something like this could be more complex than programming biblatex or natbib itself. And tha

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > 3. other systems -- such as the ABNTstyle stuff which seem to have gone > > out of production (latets update I can find is from 2003) could then be > > reimplemented in Biblatex. > > I do not think it is right. And, of course, this would break support for many clas

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > Do we actually know for sure whether natbib is meant to survive or > > whether its author is planning to just maintain it until everyone has > > converted to biblatex? Maybe we should ask the author directly? > > The whole point of LaTeX and LyX is that I can compil

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Le 25/04/11 04:33, Johannes Wilm a écrit : Do we actually know for sure whether natbib is meant to survive or whether its author is planning to just maintain it until everyone has converted to biblatex? Maybe we should ask the author directly? The whole point of LaTeX and LyX is that I can comp

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Le 25/04/11 02:26, Johannes Wilm a écrit : Yes, if that is possible at all. The Lyx-file would have to be fundamentally different for biblatex files (all bibliography databases go into the header + the bibtex executable may soon no longer work with it). This is not fundamentally different from

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Johannes Wilm wrote: > biblatex only works so far as one doesn't do anything beyond what natbib > can do, and also then it hardly works. I think "it hardly works" is an exaggeration. I use biblatex intensely and successfully for a large project (with natbib mode). Jürgen

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > On 04/24/2011 08:58 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: > > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > >> On 04/24/2011 08:30 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: >> >>> Yes, I wrote a small patch earlier. I thought I would try to refine it >>> an

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 08:58 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Richard Heck > wrote: On 04/24/2011 08:30 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: Yes, I wrote a small patch earlier. I thought I would try to refine it and develop it more once 2.0

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > On 04/24/2011 08:30 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: > >> Yes, I wrote a small patch earlier. I thought I would try to refine it and >> develop it more once 2.0 is out the door. The most difficult piece it seems >> to me would be to provide for a fai

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 08:30 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: Yes, I wrote a small patch earlier. I thought I would try to refine it and develop it more once 2.0 is out the door. The most difficult piece it seems to me would be to provide for a failure free switch back and forth from and to Biblatex. I doubt

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Yes, I wrote a small patch earlier. I thought I would try to refine it and develop it more once 2.0 is out the door. The most difficult piece it seems to me would be to provide for a failure free switch back and forth from and to Biblatex. On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: > >

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 8:17 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: It has earlier been discussed to try to work on Biblatex support for Lyx2.1. I suggest to go for that. Biblatex seems much better than any of the legacy systems. Jurabib has not been developed for years (I believe). I am not so sure about natbib. but it

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

> It has earlier been discussed to try to work on Biblatex support for Lyx2.1. I suggest to go for that. Biblatex seems much better than any of the legacy systems. Jurabib has not been developed for years (I believe). I am not so sure about natbib. but it also seems on its way out. Hmm, yeah I see

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Yes, if that is possible at all. The Lyx-file would have to be fundamentally different for biblatex files (all bibliography databases go into the header + the bibtex executable may soon no longer work with it). Another way of doing it would be to: 1. isolate the natbib code and keepmit until at l

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 8:13 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: Everything is working like a charm. I also included the Requires natbib, which forces the inclusion of natbib in the UI. That is, I force the inclusion of natbib then I say that I'm already providing it. lol The last thing I wasn't able to avoid is t

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 08:20 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Richard Heck > wrote: On 04/24/2011 03:06 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: I am currently working on a layout for use the ABNT style with LyX (ABNT stands for "Brazilian Nati

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 08:13 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: Everything is working like a charm. I also included the Requires natbib, which forces the inclusion of natbib in the UI. That is, I force the inclusion of natbib then I say that I'm already providing it. lol Yes, that's exactly what it's for: "Prov

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 08:17 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: It has earlier been discussed to try to work on Biblatex support for Lyx2.1. I suggest to go for that. Biblatex seems much better than any of the legacy systems. Jurabib has not been developed for years (I believe). I am not so sure about natbib. but

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Richard Heck wrote: > On 04/24/2011 03:06 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: > >> I am currently working on a layout for use the ABNT style with LyX (ABNT >> stands for "Brazilian National Standards Organization"). >> >> To achieve this, I have three things to handle: >> 1

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

It has earlier been discussed to try to work on Biblatex support for Lyx2.1. I suggest to go for that. Biblatex seems much better than any of the legacy systems. Jurabib has not been developed for years (I believe). I am not so sure about natbib. but it also seems on its way out. On Sun, Apr 24, 2

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Everything is working like a charm. I also included the Requires natbib, which forces the inclusion of natbib in the UI. That is, I force the inclusion of natbib then I say that I'm already providing it. lol The last thing I wasn't able to avoid is the \bibliographystyle command. My package sets i

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Now I got it. Julien, your suggestion is really good. Actually, my workaround with a new format and a script to parse and change the file was really terrible. I was reading the documentation for "Provide" and it really appear to do what you said. If such a feature is provided (a way to remove the

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 4:47 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: Ah, there's something specific. So, without touching the code, you could fake to use natbib for the UI part, and reimplement natbib's commands as you do in your python script. Except that I would just do it in a .module file instead of a python script.

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

> Ah, there's something specific. So, without touching the code, you could fake to use natbib for the UI part, and reimplement natbib's commands as you do in your python script. Except that I would just do it in a .module file instead of a python script. I confess I never used modules in LyX, but

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 4:07 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: Oh, just to know how I am handling things right now: * I created a new format called "pdfLatex + ABNT" * Then I created a new conversor "TeX> pdfLatex + ABNT", that runs a Python script that: removes package natbib include my package (eg. ab

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

Oh, just to know how I am handling things right now: * I created a new format called "pdfLatex + ABNT" * Then I created a new conversor "TeX > pdfLatex + ABNT", that runs a Python script that: removes package natbib include my package (eg. abntcite) insert some commands that maps na

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

> I'm puzzled what you mean here. People have successfully used biblatex with LyX---though complete and proper support isn't there, to be sure. And there are other BibTeX styles, such as apalike, that require (or strongly prefer) some external package to be loaded (apalike.sty, in that case), which

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 24/04/2011 3:06 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: I am currently working on a layout for use the ABNT style with LyX (ABNT stands for "Brazilian National Standards Organization"). To achieve this, I have three things to handle: 1. The document style (*.sty) 2. The bibliography style (*.bst) 3. The cit

Re: Feature: Support for other citation styles

On 04/24/2011 03:06 PM, Diego Queiroz wrote: I am currently working on a layout for use the ABNT style with LyX (ABNT stands for "Brazilian National Standards Organization"). To achieve this, I have three things to handle: 1. The document style (*.sty) 2. The bibliography style (*.bst) 3. The c

Feature: Support for other citation styles

I am currently working on a layout for use the ABNT style with LyX (ABNT stands for "Brazilian National Standards Organization"). To achieve this, I have three things to handle: 1. The document style (*.sty) 2. The bibliography style (*.bst) 3. The citation style (*.sty) The first and second topi