[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 10, 2006 5:42 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>Well, D# may not occur as the tonal center of a key, but it occurs as a
>horizontal scale step in some keys (E Minor, F# Minor). Anyway, it's a
>rather
On Sun 13 August 2006 17:10, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> Absolutely. But all of this was before the developers from the beginning.
> How can you expect a different result from the same input? daveA
1. A unanimous storm of discontent, big enough to overshadow petty
disagreements over triangle
harmonic points in the future.
-Original Message-
>From: Kieren MacMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 12, 2006 8:56 AM
>To: Paul Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: Chord naming conventions (was: triangle chord notation)
>
>Hi, y
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:25:58 +0200, Eyolf Ostrem wrote:
> On Fri 11 August 2006 16:47, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 00:59:10 +0200, eyolf ostrem wrote:
>
>> > I read though your old posts on this matter, and I agree on many of
>> > your points. Your syntax scheme for chord n
Jon Wild wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Andre Schnoor wrote:
Oops, thanks. How could I ... it seems I got used to using the wrong
symbol all the time. Diminished chords have a minor 3rd anyway, so
the additionam "m" not necessary. But what's the other one?
C E Gb Bbb (or in G melodic minor: C
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006, Andre Schnoor wrote:
Oops, thanks. How could I ... it seems I got used to using the wrong symbol
all the time. Diminished chords have a minor 3rd anyway, so the additionam
"m" not necessary. But what's the other one?
C E Gb Bbb (or in G melodic minor: C E Gb A)
This s
Hi, y'all:
We'll see who else jumps in here.
Thought I'd add my 2¢, after lurking a while...
C E Gb Bbb (or in G melodic minor: C E Gb A)
(In G melodic that would be written F#)
Here's my experience:
1. In analysis (i.e., the "classical" tradition), the chord is
written out (enharmo
Andre Schnoor wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
Andre Schnoor wrote:
Er, no. These are three distinctive chords:
Xdim = 1, b3, b5
Xm.dim7= 1, b3, b5, b7
Xdim7= 1, 3, b5, b7
One may argue that "m.dim7" is a weird exception in that is uses
that fancy dot. Alternatively "X(b5,b7)" wo
Paul Scott wrote:
Andre Schnoor wrote:
Er, no. These are three distinctive chords:
Xdim = 1, b3, b5
Xm.dim7= 1, b3, b5, b7
Xdim7= 1, 3, b5, b7
One may argue that "m.dim7" is a weird exception in that is uses that
fancy dot. Alternatively "X(b5,b7)" would be more precise, b
Andre Schnoor wrote:
Er, no. These are three distinctive chords:
Xdim = 1, b3, b5
Xm.dim7= 1, b3, b5, b7
Xdim7= 1, 3, b5, b7
One may argue that "m.dim7" is a weird exception in that is uses that
fancy dot. Alternatively "X(b5,b7)" would be more precise, but nobody
uses tha
rds, I would go with
dim
dim7
C Eb Gb A (Bbb)
instead of
m.dim7
unless you are wanting to spell C Eb G A
-Original Message-
From: Andre Schnoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Aug 8, 2006 1:54 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Chord naming conven
On Fri 11 August 2006 16:47, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 00:59:10 +0200, eyolf ostrem wrote:
> > I read though your old posts on this matter, and I agree on many of your
> > points. Your syntax scheme for chord naming is admirably precise:
> >
> > root [m] [farthest unaltered
r correcting me,
tiM
-Original Message-
From: Anthony Youngman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: vrijdag 11 augustus 2006 9:38
To: tiM Sportny
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: RE: triangle chord notation (bit of toppic: why c != b sharp)
Actually, that bit about "all instru
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:48:54 +0200, Eyolf Ostrem wrote:
> On Sat 05 August 2006 09:22, you wrote:
>> > I'm tempted to suggest a sponsorship for a revision of the chord name
>> > system - any takers?
>>
>> i would support it with some amount of money.
>>
>> here is a pdf i posted some time ago on t
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 21:05:53 +1000, Cameron Horsburgh wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:40:08AM +0200, "Johannes Schöpfer" wrote:
>>... it is maybe not useful that lilypond plays the chords in the
>>midi-files. "band-in-a-box" is a program only for this reason and has
>>also problems to do it co
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 09:40:08 +0200, Johannes Schöpfer wrote:
>
>> So if the given notes generated a name like "Em7add11add13" now, I would
>> prefer to see "Em7(11 13)" (where the 11 and 13 are stacked vertically
>> with one set of parenthesis).
>
> it would be great if th input-syntax would be
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 00:59:10 +0200, eyolf ostrem wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:39:19 -0400
> David Raleigh Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> As I wrote years ago, the best thing to do is to adhere to that strictly
>> limited symbol set, and always to base spelling on quick recognition
>> r
truments which is forced to play in "well
tempered" mode. Pretty much every other instrument can be played with
proper harmonic tuning.
Cheers,
Wol
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.org] On Behalf Of tiM Sportny
Sent: 11 August 2006 02:24
To: [EM
in the middle are equally tuned.
Still, for the people who say a b# and a c chord is the same. I must admit
that using chords as we do are relatively new in the music world were
pitching isn't really an issue anymore.
gr. tiM
From: Andre Schnoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: lilypond
The root of a chord symbol and is related more to the the momentary tonal (key) center, not necessarily the written key signature.
-Original Message-
From: Andre Schnoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Aug 9, 2006 5:02 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: triangle chord not
of a chord symbol and
is related more to the the momentary tonal (key) center, not necessarily the
written key signature.
-Original Message-
>From: Andre Schnoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 9, 2006 5:02 AM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord no
t;accidentals" rather than key signature changes.
We are discussing traditional diatonic harmony
http://www.malletjazz.com/lessons/cho_symb_les.html
-Original Message-
>From: Michael J Millett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 8, 2006 6:01 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
&
27;s in the chord is completely diatonic - using only
notes of the F major scale.
lilypond-user@gnu.org
-Original Message-
>From: Michael J Millett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 8, 2006 2:12 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>
7 is printed in superscript, it would probably be okay.
-Original Message-
>From: "Rick Hansen (aka RickH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 8, 2006 1:01 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>
>No, the #7 notation is only val
u.org
>Subject: Chord naming conventions (was: triangle chord notation)
>
>Maybe this could contribute to the discussion regarding chord input
>syntax. Below is an excerpt of chord names which are currently supported
>by my software Harmony Navigator. Last year I've had a fruit
Michael J Millett wrote:
Key signatures don't count when using chord symbols.
Only for the naming of the root. There's a big difference between Ebmaj7
and D#maj7, so the root pitch should reflect its meaning within the
current key. This information is valuable when looking at chord
progres
We seem to be in agreement except for one concept: The idea of a
jazz/pop chord symbol being based on a melodic minor scale, or any
other scale for that matter, is irrelevant. There is no way for a
person reading the chords to guess what form of minor mode is being
invoked. Scores do not say up
le CmM7 in
>> Europe
>> they may call it Cm#7 in both cases the note stack is the same > b>.
>> Speaking it, it's called "the minor major seventh chord", check out
>> the song
>> "When You Wish Upon A Star" for an example.
>>
>
pon A Star" for an example.
Of course #7 makes no sense at all on major chords, because #7 is the
root!
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Maybe this could contribute to the discussion regarding chord input
syntax. Below is an excerpt of chord names which are currently supported
by my software Harmony Navigator. Last year I've had a fruitful
discussion on rec.music.theory with Joey Goldstein. I found his
suggested "standard" quite
the song
"When You Wish Upon A Star" for an example.
Of course #7 makes no sense at all on major chords, because #7 is the root!
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There is a b# note; but for all practical purposes no B#7 chord.
-Original Message-
>From: Stewart Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 4, 2006 3:36 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>> Academics poison the well when they
I agree very much with most everything you have stated.
http://www.malletjazz.com/lessons/cho_symb_les.html
-Original Message-
>From: eyolf ostrem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 4, 2006 4:59 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>O
akes sense but it should be a symbol set that can be
entered on a qwerty keyboard.
-Original Message-
>From: David Raleigh Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 4, 2006 2:39 PM
>To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>Subject: Re: triangle chord notation
>
>On Thu, 03 Aug 2006
> CM13 has the natural
> maj seventh and the 6th (or thirteenth, 9th optional, 11th omitted) b
> d a'> and are both CM13 chords with one omitting the ninth.
> C13 again is a dominant flatted seventh with 11th omitted, 9th optional,
> and
> 13th (or sixth) present depending on how your instrumen
aff is not what I want I add it
> to the exception list. But sometimes the exception lookup routine fails
> because it's not a 1 to 1 lookup with your source file. And that is the
> most frustrating "bug" that needs to be fixed.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
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code the notes
themselves, then override those to get the name I want. (makes me quicker
at identifying chords too as I play them)
Rick
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On Sun 06 August 2006 13:43, Johannes Schöpfer wrote:
> > the chords. The chord names should NOT be text markup with no musical
> > content, which would be the consequence of Johannes's suggestion.
>
> i don't want text markup chords.
Then perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. Sorry about that.
> the chords. The chord names should NOT be text markup with no musical
> content, which would be the consequence of Johannes's suggestion.
i don't want text markup chords.
> Rather, there should be more and better alternatives for display:
i agree, but i expect that therefore a more exact in
On Sun 06 August 2006 13:05, Cameron Horsburgh wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:40:08AM +0200, "Johannes Schöpfer" wrote:
> >... it is maybe not useful that lilypond plays the chords in the
> > midi-files. "band-in-a-box" is a program only for this reason and has
> > also problems to do it corre
On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:40:08AM +0200, "Johannes Schöpfer" wrote:
>... it is maybe not useful that lilypond plays the chords in the midi-files.
>"band-in-a-box" is a program only for this reason and has also problems to do
>it correctly.
Actually, this is something I really do like about Lily
> So if the given notes generated a name like "Em7add11add13"
> now, I would prefer to see "Em7(11 13)" (where the 11 and 13 are stacked
> vertically with one set of parenthesis).
it would be great if th input-syntax would be equal to the printed chordsymbols
in the output. there would be no ne
might like it.
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road" standard in this area to
date, albeit not academically perfect, players know what to hear when they
see a certain name. Classical notation less so.
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On Sat 05 August 2006 09:22, you wrote:
> > I'm tempted to suggest a sponsorship for a revision of the chord name
> > system - any takers?
>
> i would support it with some amount of money.
>
> here is a pdf i posted some time ago on the wrong list:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel
> I'm tempted to suggest a sponsorship for a revision of the chord name
> system - any takers?
i would support it with some amount of money.
here is a pdf i posted some time ago on the wrong list:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2006-07/pdfsOyxfTe7HO.pdf
are there any chordsymb
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:39:19 -0400
David Raleigh Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As I wrote years ago, the best thing to do is to adhere to that
> strictly limited symbol set, and always to base spelling on quick
> recognition rather than musical meaning, which is irrelevant in
> improvisation
Academics poison the well when they use the system for analysis, which is
a purpose for which it was never intended. Do not follow the
innovations suggested by academic articles. It leads to such abominations
as the flat13th chord or the B#7, which is better written C7, regardless
of a big fat b
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:10:48 +0200, Eyolf Ostrem wrote:
> On Thu 03 August 2006 22:35, Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
>> You'll hardly find a jazz fake book that does not use triangles
>> somewhere or always for M7, take a look at Aebersold, Hal Leonard, Sher,
>> etc.
>
> Agreed - but that's jazz
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:00:14 +0200, Johannes Schöpfer wrote:
>
>> >> The "o" with no slash for diminished and "+" for augmented 5th forms
>> are
>> >> widely accepted though.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Yes, but (a) the "o" can mean the diminished fifth only,
>> Not correctly. The circle always m
> >> The "o" with no slash for diminished and "+" for augmented 5th forms
> are
> >> widely accepted though.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, but (a) the "o" can mean the diminished fifth only,
> Not correctly. The circle always means fully diminished and the slashed
> circle means half diminished. I a
Eyolf Ostrem wrote:
On Thu 03 August 2006 22:35, Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
You'll hardly find a jazz fake book that does not use triangles somewhere
or always for M7, take a look at Aebersold, Hal Leonard, Sher, etc.
Agreed - but that's jazz. In the contexts that I use - classica
ad-hoc to begin with, since I use
std notation anyway I can name the whole inversion. The chord names staff
is just a comping guide for me.
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On Thu 03 August 2006 22:35, Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
> You'll hardly find a jazz fake book that does not use triangles somewhere
> or always for M7, take a look at Aebersold, Hal Leonard, Sher, etc.
Agreed - but that's jazz. In the contexts that I use - classical, rock, folk,
and ascii ta
minished and "+" for augmented 5th forms are
widely accepted though.
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On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:35:57 +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
> I don't have any opinion on my own, but looked into a fairly authoritative
> book in notation ("Noter" by B. Tyboni, if you happen to read Swedish),
> which says that the triangle is equivalent to "maj" and always implies a
> major sevent
On Wed 02 August 2006 22:20, Paul Scott wrote:
> What is everybody's opinion as to whether the triangle means major chord
> or means major seventh chord. I even saw documentation saying it meant
> (major) 6/9.
My opinion is that it's an abomination which should be avoided - not primarily
because
I don't have any opinion on my own, but looked into a
fairly authoritative book in notation ("Noter" by B. Tyboni,
if you happen to read Swedish), which says that the triangle
is equivalent to "maj" and always implies a major seventh.
/Mats
Paul Scott wrote:
What is everybody's opinion as to
What is everybody's opinion as to whether the triangle means major chord
or means major seventh chord. I even saw documentation saying it meant
(major) 6/9.
Paul Scott
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