2016-01-02 23:37 GMT+01:00 Thomas Morley :
>
> Please look at the attached png and test the attached code.
> Tell me what isn't sufficient.
>
> Cheers,
> Harm
>
Hi Harm,
I just found your solution to the problem I had been having for a long time
– it helped tremendously, thank you!
Only proble
2016-01-03 0:16 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
> Thomas Morley writes:
>
>> If you do it 'before-line-breaking it works, yes, but can't be changed
>> 'after-line-breaking anymore ...
>>
>> No idea what's happening and why.
>
> Caching? I don't see you using unpure-pure containers. Anything else
> is
Hi Harm,
> Let me ensure you, my table has some nice bite marks more …
=(
> All this predefining markups down/above/parenthesized is way too
> tedious and error-prone and would need to be done for
> double-ottavation as well ...
> And \raise will break whenever you want to use another \fontsize
Thomas Morley writes:
> If you do it 'before-line-breaking it works, yes, but can't be changed
> 'after-line-breaking anymore ...
>
> No idea what's happening and why.
Caching? I don't see you using unpure-pure containers. Anything else
is only evaluated once.
--
David Kastrup
_
.
2016-01-02 17:16 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
>> Just wrote a bug-report:
>> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Overriding-OttavaBracket-text-fails-td185451.html
>
> Thanks!
>
> Can you help me with the #'stencil-align-dir-y replacement hack?
>
> In the snippet (below), I’ve got
Hi Harm,
> Just wrote a bug-report:
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Overriding-OttavaBracket-text-fails-td185451.html
Thanks!
Can you help me with the #'stencil-align-dir-y replacement hack?
In the snippet (below), I’ve got the basic 8va the way I want it, but can’t
seem to find the ri
2016-01-02 1:02 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
>> \alterBroken is a tool meant to facilitate addressing and tweaking
>> parts and properties of spanners. You may call it syntactic sugar ;)
>> It needs investigation why it fails with OttavaBracket.text
>
> And, my [admittedly non-exhausti
Hi Harm,
> In general, even a feature-request which is well-defined
> and short worded may involve a lot more then expected. ;)
For over twenty years, I was a programmer (of Java, a half-dozen other
languages, and several database scripting environments) with clients/users — so
I know that only
Hi Harm,
> \alterBroken is a tool meant to facilitate addressing and tweaking
> parts and properties of spanners. You may call it syntactic sugar ;)
> It needs investigation why it fails with OttavaBracket.text
And, my [admittedly non-exhaustive] testing has just shown,
OttavaBracket.shorten-pai
Hi David
> it's quite trivial to complete the "well-defined” task
> without doing anything remotely useful.
Well, at least I’ve answered the charge that I didn’t give a well-defined task.
Cheers,
Kieren.
Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.
2016-01-01 22:13 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi David,
>
>> To me it would appear that in this case by far the lion's share of the
>> work is digging through reference books (incidentally, I don't have any
>> of those),
Don't have any as well
>> devising a good plan for the desired behavior, c
Thomas Morley writes:
> 2016-01-01 22:30 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
>> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>
>> It is trivial to let OttavaBracket contain line-spanner-interface which
>> is just a label for a set of properties. What those properties do
>> depends on actual code, however.
2016-01-01 22:30 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>>> To me it would appear that in this case by far the lion's share of the
>>> work is digging through reference books (incidentally, I don't have any
>>> of those), devising a good plan for the desired behavio
2016-01-01 22:20 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi David N,
>
>> Strange that
>> \alterBroken text #'(() "") Staff.OttavaBracket
>> doesn't have an effect here (substitute this line for the call of \foo
>> above).
>
> Exactly. This discovery (which I made some days ago) further added to my
> frus
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> To me it would appear that in this case by far the lion's share of the
>> work is digging through reference books (incidentally, I don't have any
>> of those), devising a good plan for the desired behavior, checking with
>> the current behavior, figuring
Hi Harm,
> broken text isn't that hard
Thanks!
Through a combination of \translate, \with-dimensions, #’before- and
#’after-line-breaking, and your help, I'm getting close to recreating without
line-spanner-interface the OttavaBracket defaults that I had before [by
overriding #’stencil]; see
Hi David N,
> Strange that
> \alterBroken text #'(() "") Staff.OttavaBracket
> doesn't have an effect here (substitute this line for the call of \foo above).
Exactly. This discovery (which I made some days ago) further added to my
frustration about not being able to predict what is or is not lik
Hi Harm,
> I posted my findings, else I wrote "discussable ..."
>
> So, let's start discussion.
>
> In the end the general question "How should OttavaBracket behave?"
> should be answered detailed.
> Part of it:
> Which properties should be user-settable?
> How should a (maybe broken) OttavaBrac
Hi David,
> To me it would appear that in this case by far the lion's share of the
> work is digging through reference books (incidentally, I don't have any
> of those), devising a good plan for the desired behavior, checking with
> the current behavior, figuring out where the differences are,
> c
Hi David,
> "particular" is not the same as "well-defined”.
> I can't even figure out what this is supposed to be about.
Feature Request: OttavaBracket should support line-spanner-interface.
Does that satisfy your definition of "well-defined”?
Thanks,
Kieren.
K
Thomas Morley writes:
> True.
> I posted my findings, else I wrote "discussable ..."
>
> So, let's start discussion.
>
> In the end the general question "How should OttavaBracket behave?"
> should be answered detailed.
> Part of it:
> Which properties should be user-settable?
> How should a (mayb
2016-01-01 19:23 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>
>> Hi Harm,
>>
>> Thank you so much for doing all this! Very informative and helpful.
>>
>>> I made some fundamental research about spanners with line-interface
>>> and those with additional line-spanner-interface.
>>> Code, p
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi Harm,
>
> Thank you so much for doing all this! Very informative and helpful.
>
>> I made some fundamental research about spanners with line-interface
>> and those with additional line-spanner-interface.
>> Code, pdf, log attached. Their behaviour is inconsistent, to
On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Morley
wrote:
> 2016-01-01 17:38 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan >:
> >
> > And my limited testing with \alterBroken seems to suggest that not all
> bits are user-settable (e.g., I still can’t seem to set the broken text
> without overriding the stencil).
>
> W
2016-01-01 17:38 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
>> P.S.: Up to now I found it impossible to override certain properties
>> of the first part of a broken OttavaBracket, like the length of the line.
>> Hairpin has the 'broken-bound-padding at least, but none of the
>> others, if I'm not mistaken.
>
>
Hi Harm,
Thank you so much for doing all this! Very informative and helpful.
> I made some fundamental research about spanners with line-interface
> and those with additional line-spanner-interface.
> Code, pdf, log attached. Their behaviour is inconsistent, to say the least.
=(
> Regarding def
2015-12-31 3:23 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
> Now that my custom ottavation function isn’t overriding the stencil, how do I
> adjust all of the parameters I had set in the “bound-details” version (e.g.,
> X, Y, padding, right-broken.X, etc.)?
>
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
>
> p.s. My origin
Hi Harm,
Now that my custom ottavation function isn’t overriding the stencil, how do I
adjust all of the parameters I had set in the “bound-details” version (e.g., X,
Y, padding, right-broken.X, etc.)?
Thanks,
Kieren.
p.s. My original function was simply extended from the example in the [curre
Hi Harm,
> I don't think OttavaBracket.bound-details does anything, I'd delete it.
It doesn’t any more, because the stencil is no longer being overridden:
SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.32"
\paper { ragged-right = ##f }
#(define eightva
#{
\markup
%% messing around with \with-dim
2015-12-30 15:21 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
> You win the interwebs for today! =)
>
> Although I’m only fractionally closer to understanding why certain Lilypond
> things work or don’t (I understand now that overriding the stencil may cause
> certain overrides to fail post-hoc; yo
2015-12-30 15:53 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
> Thomas Morley writes:
>
>> But the following works
>>
>> #(define eightva
>> #{
>> \markup
>> %% messing around with \with-dimensions, because OttavaBracket has no
>> %% possibility to set details.stencil-align-dir-y
>> %% :((
>>
Thomas Morley writes:
> But the following works
>
> #(define eightva
> #{
> \markup
> %% messing around with \with-dimensions, because OttavaBracket has no
> %% possibility to set details.stencil-align-dir-y
> %% :((
> \with-dimensions #'(0 . 4) #'(0 . 2.8)
> \
2015-12-30 15:24 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
> For a _simple_ ottavation you don't need to add:
>
> \ottava #1
>
> ^^
> delete it.
>
>
> … but then the note doesn’t get engraved correctly?
> (see attached screenshot)
>
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
>
>
You're right, my bad.
But the
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> \once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
>>
>> is not a working example. Pretty much everything is missing. Not even
>> the command itself is complete.
>
> If everyone is to include a complete compilable example every time
> they mention any Lily
Hi Harm,
> For a _simple_ ottavation you don't need to add:
>> \ottava #1
> ^^
> delete it.
… but then the note doesn’t get engraved correctly?
(see attached screenshot)
Thanks,
Kieren.
Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣
Hi Harm,
You win the interwebs for today! =)
Although I’m only fractionally closer to understanding why certain Lilypond
things work or don’t (I understand now that overriding the stencil may cause
certain overrides to fail post-hoc; your comment "Not sure why a direct
'text-override does not
2015-12-30 15:10 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
>> %% or simpler:
>>
>> {
>> \once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.shorten-pair = #'(-10 . -10)
>> \set Staff.ottavation = #eightva
>> c1^"text changed, 'shorten-pair applied"
>> }
>
> Hmmm… That doesn’t seem to actually change the tex
Hi Harm,
> %% or simpler:
>
> {
> \once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.shorten-pair = #'(-10 . -10)
> \set Staff.ottavation = #eightva
> c1^"text changed, 'shorten-pair applied"
> }
Hmmm… That doesn’t seem to actually change the text for me (see snippet,
below); it appears to revert to th
Hi David,
> \once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
>
> is not a working example. Pretty much everything is missing. Not even
> the command itself is complete.
If everyone is to include a complete compilable example every time they mention
any Lilypond grob of any sort in any post on t
Hi Harm,
Now *this* is a helpful and informative email! Thanks!
> The whole reason for exchanging the stencil seems to be getting sort
> of superscript of "va" in "8va" and to have the spanning line starting
> at top right edge.
I guess? (I am simply extending a function I found on the LSR or so
2015-12-30 14:34 GMT+01:00 Thomas Morley :
> 2015-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
>> Hi Harm,
>>
>>> Of course you should use Staff.OttavaBracket
>>
>> Curiously,
>>
>>\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
>>
>> [without the Staff context] works fine. (??)
>>
>>> but in `octU_si
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> Just imagine how frustrating it is to developers to never get a minimal
>> working example actually illustrating all the claims made about LilyPond
>
> What is missing from the example I sent?
\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
is not a wor
2015-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi Harm,
>
>> Of course you should use Staff.OttavaBracket
>
> Curiously,
>
>\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
>
> [without the Staff context] works fine. (??)
>
>> but in `octU_single’ OttavaBracket.stencil is set to ly:line-spanner::p
Hi David,
> Just imagine how frustrating it is to developers to never get a minimal
> working example actually illustrating all the claims made about LilyPond
What is missing from the example I sent?
I’ll be happy to fix it and resubmit.
Thanks,
Kieren.
Kieren M
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi Harm,
>
>> Of course you should use Staff.OttavaBracket
>
> Curiously,
>
>\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
>
> [without the Staff context] works fine. (??)
[...]
> It’s still quite confusing to me why
>
>\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offse
Hi Harm,
> Of course you should use Staff.OttavaBracket
Curiously,
\once \override OttavaBracket.extra-offset …
[without the Staff context] works fine. (??)
> but in `octU_single’ OttavaBracket.stencil is set to ly:line-spanner::print
> which doesn’t support 'shorten-pair, as far as I know.
2015-12-30 12:54 GMT+01:00 Kieren MacMillan :
> Hi David,
>
>> OttavaBracket is engraved at Staff level, here you override it at Voice
>> level. The Ottava_spanner_engraver never gets to see your override.
>
> But
>
> \once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.shorten-pair = #'(-10 . -10)
> \octU_si
Hi David,
> OttavaBracket is engraved at Staff level, here you override it at Voice
> level. The Ottava_spanner_engraver never gets to see your override.
But
\once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.shorten-pair = #'(-10 . -10)
\octU_single c''’'1
doesn’t work either.
Or maybe I’m misunderst
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> Unless you actually follow up with an example of what you are
>> actually doing which does not work as expected,
>> it will be impossible to tell just what you are doing wrong.
>
> SNIPPET BEGINS
> \version "2.19.32"
>
> eightva = \markup \italic \c
Hi David,
Thank you for the quick, detailed, and enlightening response.
> Those aren't tweaks. They are overrides.
My apologies for misused terminology.
> I'll assume that you are using a fairly recent version of LilyPond (2.19.28
> or later).
Yes.
> I haven't used the edition engraver yet b
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hello all,
>
> I don’t quite understand when a tweak will apply and when it won’t…
>
> For example, I have an ottavation function for “one-off” octave pops:
>
> octU_single = {
> \once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.stencil = #ly:line-spanner::print
> \once \override
Hello all,
I don’t quite understand when a tweak will apply and when it won’t…
For example, I have an ottavation function for “one-off” octave pops:
octU_single = {
\once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.stencil = #ly:line-spanner::print
\once \override Staff.OttavaBracket.bound-details =
#
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