On Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 12:31:45AM -0500, Deidre L. Calarco wrote:
> > hmmm. then it would be that you don't have a concept of "gender"?
> > It seems to me that if one did not have a concept of gender then
> > the label "woman" or "man" would be meaningless.
>
> To me, "man" and "woman" are very
> sorry, this is a bit long and ramblely. Thanks to the list
> for providing such material to chew on.
>
> On Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 11:00:35PM -0500, Deidre L. Calarco wrote:
>> > should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm
>> > sure there's a better way.
>>
>> Why asso
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm not sure that classifying people further is the answer. Reclaiming
> 'person' - or some other gender-neutral identification - might be an
> answer. But having studied stereotyping, I don't think that's quite an
> answer either - people stereoty
srl wrote:
> Then a female breaks those assumptions, and some people don't know what to
> do with the situation because they have all these ideas about "women".
> Or a female doesn't look like females are "supposed" to--- maybe ze gets
> called "sir" half the time b/c ze's really butch. Maybe ze
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> srl wrote:
>
> > Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to
> > me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks
> > face could be talked about in terms of gender.
> >
> > For example: Male geeks often face pressure
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Nico Hailey wrote:
> >
> > So my question is more or less, Does
> > the origin (ie, actually *ism, cluelessness, trolling, etc) of the
> > *ist things which are said matter?
> >
> > I mean the effect on ppl seems the same (discomfort, getting defensive,
> > going int
sorry, this is a bit long and ramblely. Thanks to the list
for providing such material to chew on.
On Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 11:00:35PM -0500, Deidre L. Calarco wrote:
> > should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm
> > sure there's a better way.
>
> Why associate al
> But, yet, we persist in seeing geeky females and butches as "women"--- in
> the same category with Barbie, Cindy Crawford, and Ricki Lake. There's
> such a range of female genders, but we have so few words. That really
> should change. We persist in using this XOR model of woman/man, but I'm
>
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> srl wrote:
>
> > Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to
> > me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks
> > face could be talked about in terms of gender.
> >
> > For example: Male geeks o
> also more on topic, I was yakking with a bunch of my (male/man) geek
> friends, and one of them made a comment about how every geek needs
> a Vemla(sp, nerdy girl char from scobby doo) because she's smart
> and wears short skirts. (I hate it when /. invades my house.) I
> brought up any number
srl wrote:
> Talking about gender and sex as non-binary conditions seems useful to
> me--- that's why i suggest this. I think that a lot of the problems geeks
> face could be talked about in terms of gender.
>
> For example: Male geeks often face pressure because they aren't [usually]
> the "joc
Nico Hailey wrote:
>
> So my question is more or less, Does
> the origin (ie, actually *ism, cluelessness, trolling, etc) of the
> *ist things which are said matter?
>
> I mean the effect on ppl seems the same (discomfort, getting defensive,
> going into "educating" mode). My SO is frequently t
> A terminology suggestion: "gender" is usually acknowledged to be a social
> construction, whereas "sex" is usually the word for anatomy. So, for
> example, someone may have a "male" sex, but have the gender "man".
Ahh better terms, thank you. :o)
> Note that this isn't a one-to-one mapping; f
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Nicole Zimmerman wrote:
> It seemed pretty legit, discussing the genetics of the X and Y
> chromosomes that make us the physical gender we are ("mental" or
> psychological gender determined differently) having been around for much
> longer than was first assumed.
A terminolog
On Sun, Oct 31, 1999 at 11:10:09PM -0800, Nicole Zimmerman wrote:
> An interesting experience was brought up at the end: a male to female
> post-op was working as a computer programmer. After the operation, her
> salary decreased by $2000. My mouth definitely dropped open!
ah yes, the estrogen ta
> Being in aancient days" that as a biologists(bio or bo for short) some of it
> sounded pretrty shakey. Awful had to project bird behavior to humasnas and
> with pick your specoees. Chimps and Bobonanos are top faves d3epending on
> your views. Discovery channel stuff is ovtern biologically skewe
Nicole Zimmerman wrote:
> > > There was a great documentary on the TV/TS lifestyle on the Discovery
> > > channel (it just ended and I am sure it will be repeated).
> >
> > I'm going to have to make a point of watching it.
>
> According to my http://www.tvguide.com/listings it will be repeated
Kelly Lynn Martin wrote:
>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:12:31 -0800 (PST), Deirdre Saoirse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> >>An interesting experience was brought up at the end: a male to
> >>female post-op was working as a computer programmer. After the
> >>operation, her salary decreased by $2000. M
Nicole Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
> Couldn't find anything on the show, though.
Figures that I'd find it as soon as I sent out that last message!
http://www.discovery.com/sched/domestic/episode/39/30142013.html
Di
I love it when I send mail to myself ;o)
Original Message
From: Nicole Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Penguin Chaos
To: Nicole Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
> Couldn't find anything
> > There was a great documentary on the TV/TS lifestyle on the Discovery
> > channel (it just ended and I am sure it will be repeated).
>
> I'm going to have to make a point of watching it.
According to my http://www.tvguide.com/listings it will be repeated
tonight at 2:00 AM PST. It is called
On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:12:31 -0800 (PST), Deirdre Saoirse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>An interesting experience was brought up at the end: a male to
>>female post-op was working as a computer programmer. After the
>>operation, her salary decreased by $2000. My mouth definitely
>>dropped open!
>T
On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Nicole Zimmerman wrote:
> There was a great documentary on the TV/TS lifestyle on the Discovery
> channel (it just ended and I am sure it will be repeated).
I'm going to have to make a point of watching it.
> An interesting experience was brought up at the end: a male to fe
> Kelly (who understands alienation better than anyone has any right
> to...)
There was a great documentary on the TV/TS lifestyle on the Discovery
channel (it just ended and I am sure it will be repeated).
An interesting experience was brought up at the end: a male to female
post-op was working
> ** Original Subject: Re: [issues] alienation (was: Places, issues, etc)
> ** Original Sender: "Deidre L. Calarco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ** Original Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:29:06 -0500
> ** Original Message follows...
>
> > There is a curious thing
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:46:32 -0500 (EST), Cat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>I have the power ... if *GraySkull*!!! Ha, ha. I loved He-man and
>She-ra when I was little, although I like She-ra better because se
>was a girl. What was BattleCat's name when he wasn't BattleCat? And
>what was it that
>When I was 9-12 years old (late 70's, early 80's),..
>Maybe the social consequences for being a geek are worse for women than for
>men. The male geeks were pretty marginalized in high school, but beyond
>that they found this whole male-centered geek culture waiting for them...
>The women ki
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Cat wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Di Gregory wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > I ended up being a Transformer for Halloween (Voltron, specifically :),
> > > and ended up being teased even more.. this is probably when I started
> >
> > Hey! Voltron wasn't a transformer... Transformers
On Thu, Nov 04, 1999 at 11:34:25AM -0800, Amber Fechko wrote:
>
> This reminds me of myself. :) When I was younger, I absolutely
> /loved/ the Transformers, both the comic books and the TV series. I'd get
> up to watch it with my brother.. all the while being teased by both my
> parents and my
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Di Gregory wrote:
>
>
> > I ended up being a Transformer for Halloween (Voltron, specifically :),
> > and ended up being teased even more.. this is probably when I started
>
> Hey! Voltron wasn't a transformer... Transformers I thought were kind of
> dumb because they were
> I ended up being a Transformer for Halloween (Voltron, specifically :),
> and ended up being teased even more.. this is probably when I started
Hey! Voltron wasn't a transformer... Transformers I thought were kind of
dumb because they were easy to figure out how it transformed. Voltron was
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Deidre L. Calarco wrote:
> When I was 9-12 years old (late 70's, early 80's), I used to love comic
> books, especially Batman. I got teased mercilessly about it by my parents
> and their friends. Finally, I stopped reading them. I still liked them, but
> people had made i
At 09:56 AM 11/04/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>
>When I was 9-12 years old (late 70's, early 80's),..
>Maybe the social consequences for being a geek are worse for women than for
>men. The male geeks were pretty marginalized in high school, but beyond
>that they found this whole male-centered geek
> There is a curious thing about electronic communication for me. One is that,
> for some unknown reason it became ingrained in my head as very informal.. Ask
> Sherry Turtle. :) For example my zine writing often ends up too formal, in an
> environment where informality is treasured. My record rev
Kelly Lynn Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:07:27 -0500, Steve Kudlak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> >In fact I am one of the sloppiest English writers known Especially
> >when I am tired. SPell corrector what's that? So have fun and
> >enjoy. Even if it turns into surrealistic poetry at t
On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:07:27 -0500, Steve Kudlak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>In fact I am one of the sloppiest English writers known Especially
>when I am tired. SPell corrector what's that? So have fun and
>enjoy. Even if it turns into surrealistic poetry at times!!!.
Ever consider that this mig
J B wrote:
> >I'm new to this list, and have been lurking for a week or so. This >is my
> >first post, though. I'm not a native English speaker (I'm a >Swedish
> >speaking Finn, just like Linus :-) so please forgive me if I >abuse your
> >language ;-)
>
> Welcome! Don't worry about abusing the
> I was talking with some of my FTM geek friends about ID'ing with
> women-born-women geeks. He and I both shared stories of having to
> fight the "boys" for time on the machines at school (during the
> mid eighties, when small schools were lucky to have 4 apple ]['s),
> and of having not been all
>I'm new to this list, and have been lurking for a week or so. This >is my
>first post, though. I'm not a native English speaker (I'm a >Swedish
>speaking Finn, just like Linus :-) so please forgive me if I >abuse your
>language ;-)
Welcome! Don't worry about abusing the language...there ar
Hi everybody!
I'm new to this list, and have been lurking for a week or so. This is my
first post, though. I'm not a native English speaker (I'm a Swedish
speaking Finn, just like Linus :-) so please forgive me if I abuse your
language ;-)
I really enjoy reading the views on female geek issues,
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