On Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 12:31:45AM -0500, Deidre L. Calarco wrote:
> > hmmm. then it would be that you don't have a concept of "gender"?
> > It seems to me that if one did not have a concept of gender then
> > the label "woman" or "man" would be meaningless.
>
> To me, "man" and "woman" are very closely associated with sex-specific
> physical characteristics. Beyond that, men and women are (in my opinion)
> much more alike than different, and have huge, overlapping sets of talents,
> interests, preferences, etc. Isn't that how most people define them?
To me, male, female and intersexed are for the unalterable physical sex one was
born as and carries the genes for. Man and Woman are for what one identifies
with and/or presents as. The definitions of Man and Woman seem to vary
from culture to culture, so I see these as somewhat artificial constructs
society imposes.
As far as most people, I think that many people still have ideas
about women are better at "X" and men are better at "Y".
> Question: Is gender a cultural construct, encompassing other's reactions,
> attempted socialization and personal reactions to it? Does the concept have
> any meaning outside of that? If it's just a social construct, then it's
> flexible. We can choose ways of dealing with other people's - and our own -
> conceptions of gender. We can play with it or try to ignore it. We can
> live our inner lives mostly outside of it.
I belive that gender is definitely a cultural construct. I mean, find
any sociology 101 book and it tell you that what is considered womanly
for X culture is considered manly for Y culture and for Z culture is
neutral. Playing with it or ignoring it is where it gets fun.
> > Would it be meaningless
> > to be on a discussion list aimed at one "gender"?
>
> It doesn't seem meaningless to me. Female people in the computer industry
> tend to be marginalized, and we share the same (attempted) socialization.
> It's fun to talk with other women who are into computers and have thought
> about and experienced some of the same things I have.
I was talking with some of my FTM geek friends about ID'ing with
women-born-women geeks. He and I both shared stories of having to
fight the "boys" for time on the machines at school (during the
mid eighties, when small schools were lucky to have 4 apple ]['s),
and of having not been allowed to do all sorts of young-geek things
with other young-geeks /because/ of female socialization. Much
like some of the conversations I've had with women-born-women geeks.
One of the things I admire about female-socialized geeks is that
they've overcome and/or challenged the marginalization. Which is
one of the reasons why I think, in our present culture, it /is/
meaningful to have discussion lists aimed at one gender.
nico
--
ND Hailey www.demona.com
"You don't hardly know yourself, girl, till you find yourself
doing things you never imagined." --Dorothy Allison
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