On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Corbin Bird wrote:
>
> ( PulseAudio is also being merged into systemd. Think about it. )
Unless the systemd developers have decided to stop targeting the
non-desktop use-case, this is pure delirium.
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:04 PM, lee wrote:
> Andrej Rode writes:
>>
>>> Or can you explain how unrecognisable names make things easier?
>>
>> Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem
>> with eth<0,10> switching names after boot. Everyone who had them
>> appreciates pred
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 12/19/2016 01:09 PM, Andrej Rode wrote:
>>
>> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
>
> It could be I found a bug. After a reboot it went from the normal
> enp0s1 (or whatever) to eno1677789 or s
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:
>>
>> You don't need to be convinced. It's sufficient that I know systemd
>> pretty well from the beginning when the Poettering fanboys of Arch Linux
>> forced this crap onto the Arch Linu
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am 20.12.2016 um 05:23 schrieb Andrej Rode:
>>
>> Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem
>> with eth<0,10> switching names after boot. Everyone who had them
>> appreciates predictable network interfaces.
>
> Everyon
On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote:
>
> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.
>From Kay Sievers in [1]:
Btw
On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> When people compare systemd unit files to init scripts, they usually
> mean *raw* (LSB?) sysvinit scripts (as IIUC Debian use{s,d}), with all
> of their ridiculous amounts of boilerplate.
The latest Debian init.d skeleton uses "#!/lib/init/in
I just updated Tatham's puzzles
& all my individual settings in the KDE menu were overwritten.
I'ld like to back them up to save labor the next time,
but I can't find where they're stored.
In ~/.config/menus/ there's a file applications-kmenuedit.menu ,
whose content corresponds to the layout o
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
>
> How does a file take up less than a single FS block? An inode has to be
> allocated _somewhere_, does it not?
>
So, the details are going to be filesystem-specific, but typically
inodes go into some kind of area of the disk reserved for
Neil Bothwick writes:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:48:29 +0100, lee wrote:
>
>> > You can't switch any two names because the udev rules are run singly,
>> > so at one point you will be trying to rename an interface with a name
>> > that is already in use.
>>
>> I mean more like renaming them on th
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:56:29PM +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am 21.12.2016 um 14:03 schrieb Rich Freeman:
> > I don't agree that you are "forced"
> > to use systemd. Maybe you might be forced to use a different browser
> > or fork your browser or patch it or stick with an old version and
> > bac
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:53:51AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> > On 12/20/2016 06:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >> We don't have some
> >> committee on high pick a winner and tell all the maintainers that they
> >> all have to move from su
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 10:06:00PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 21/12/2016 21:51, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:20 PM, wrote:
> >>
> >>> The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
> >>> (see "package.use"
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 02:04:05PM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:44 PM, wrote:
> > Corbin Bird [16-12-21 17:12]:
> > The first run of emerge tells me to add the systemd USE flag to dbus.
> > I did that and ran into to problems I reported.
>
> Ok, I think you left that b
On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:48:29 +0100, lee wrote:
> > You can't switch any two names because the udev rules are run singly,
> > so at one point you will be trying to rename an interface with a name
> > that is already in use.
>
> I mean more like renaming them on the fly --- or by having a
> confi
lee wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
> I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major
> computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had. Go back and
> read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully.
>
> Might I also add, it's more than just me that has pointed out that yo
Neil Bothwick writes:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 23:11:08 +0100, lee wrote:
>
>> >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them
>> >> already. They are not so hard to write and they only need to be
>> >> written once.
>> >
>> > It's too late by then, if eth0 and eth1 already exist,
Dale writes:
> lee wrote:
>> Dale writes:
>>
>>> lee wrote:
Dale writes:
> lee wrote:
>> Daniel Frey writes:
>>
>>> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
"Walter Dnes" writes:
> Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with o
Am 21.12.2016 um 20:31 schrieb Rich Freeman:
> OpenSource has nothing to do with whether something costs money. Not
> even RMS or ESR would agree with "For OpenSource you don't need to
> pay."
Ok, now we're getting a little bit closer again.
All the rest... I have neither time nor energy to answ
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> Doesn't it strike you as curious
Not really. :)
> 10s of harmless unit files (text), each less than one fs block?
>
Setting aside the core of this issue (which everybody has already gone
on about ad nauseum, myself included), I figured
On 21/12/2016 21:51, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:20 PM, wrote:
>>
>>> The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
>>> (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
>>> # required by kde-plasma/
On 21/12/2016 21:46, Rich Freeman wrote:
> I suggest ignoring this for the moment and see if the info above
> resolves your systemd issues. I'm not sure why kwin has the
> dependency that it does, but it looks to me like it is set up as a
> hard dependency that you can't avoid without modifying t
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:20 PM, wrote:
>
>> The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
>> (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
>> # required by kde-plasma/kwin-5.8.3::gentoo
>> # required by kde-plasma/p
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:20 PM, wrote:
>
> emerge -t --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y --tree --keep-going
> --backtrack=30 --exclude media-video/nvidia-settings --exclude
> app-misc/screen --exclude app-misc/ytree --exclude dev-python/sip --exclude
> app-shells/bash @world -v
>
> These
On 21/12/2016 21:20, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> Rich Freeman [16-12-21 20:12]:
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:44 PM, wrote:
>>> Corbin Bird [16-12-21 17:12]:
>>> The first run of emerge tells me to add the systemd USE flag to dbus.
>>> I did that and ran into to problems I reported.
>>
>> Ok, I
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Heiko Baums wrote:
>
> And this again. You know the difference between OpenSource and ClosedSource?
>
> You pay for ClosedSource. For OpenSource you don't need to pay. But I
> have neither time nor energy to explain you the philosophy (before
> Poetterix) of OpenSo
Rich Freeman [16-12-21 20:12]:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:44 PM, wrote:
> > Corbin Bird [16-12-21 17:12]:
> > The first run of emerge tells me to add the systemd USE flag to dbus.
> > I did that and ran into to problems I reported.
>
> Ok, I think you left that bit out...
>
> And this is why
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:44 PM, wrote:
> Corbin Bird [16-12-21 17:12]:
> The first run of emerge tells me to add the systemd USE flag to dbus.
> I did that and ran into to problems I reported.
Ok, I think you left that bit out...
And this is why it is helpful to understand why portage is doin
Am 21.12.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Rich Freeman:
> udev and systemd operate based on text configuration files that are
> declarative in nature.
Seldom laughed as much.
Heiko Baums
Am 21.12.2016 um 14:03 schrieb Rich Freeman:
> I don't agree that you are "forced"
> to use systemd. Maybe you might be forced to use a different browser
> or fork your browser or patch it or stick with an old version and
> backport security fixes if you want to use it without systemd some
> day.
Corbin Bird [16-12-21 17:12]:
>
> On 12/20/2016 10:25 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The master portage spakes again.
> > And the novice was *not* enlightened...
> >
> >
> > Total: 17 packages (11 upgrades, 4 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size
> > of downloads: 25097 KiB
> >
On 21/12/2016 11:05, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 19:24:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> Looks like a reasonably straightforward set of blockers. Your core
>> problem seems to be that portage wants to install kmail:4 but if I read
>> you correctly earlier in the thread, you want to inst
On 12/21/2016 08:28 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Corbin Bird wrote:
>> The old manual method of configuration is extremely flexible, you can
>> get the "who-knows-where-it-came-from-component" to work. The new
>> "automagic" of udev / systemd forget it. At least
On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 07:53:33 -0600, Corbin Bird wrote:
> The ability to separate "udev" code from "systemd" code is going away
> very soon.
> ( by design, on purpose, etc. )
> So if you want to run "udev" ... you going to be running "systemd". No
> choice.
> ( PulseAudio is also being merged into
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Corbin Bird wrote:
>
> The old manual method of configuration is extremely flexible, you can
> get the "who-knows-where-it-came-from-component" to work. The new
> "automagic" of udev / systemd forget it. At least with script based
> init systems I could change
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Corbin Bird wrote:
>
> On 12/21/2016 06:59 AM, Matthias Hanft wrote:
>> Corbin Bird wrote:
>>> The "sys-fs/eudev" package is the Gentoo fork of "sys-fs/udev" for
>>> people who don't want systemd.
>> Ehm... I still use "sys-fs/udev" (not eudev) without systemd.
>>
On 12/21/2016 06:59 AM, Matthias Hanft wrote:
> Corbin Bird wrote:
>> The "sys-fs/eudev" package is the Gentoo fork of "sys-fs/udev" for
>> people who don't want systemd.
> Ehm... I still use "sys-fs/udev" (not eudev) without systemd.
> No problems so far. Do I have to worry?
>
> -Matt
>
>
It is
meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> sys-apps/systemd required by (virtual/tmpfiles [...]
Probably this is your problem:
You have apparently stabilized the testing virtual/tmpfiles
(or some other package which requires it).
virtual/tmpfiles depends (unless you use systemd) on the unstable
sys-apps/op
On 12/21/2016 06:09 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> Regarding the controversy about systemd etc.
>
> The problem isn't that systemd is available, or that there exist a
> company named Red Had or that there exist a developer named Lennart
> Poettering that develops programs.
>
> The problem is that
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Matthias Hanft wrote:
> Corbin Bird wrote:
>>
>> The "sys-fs/eudev" package is the Gentoo fork of "sys-fs/udev" for
>> people who don't want systemd.
>
> Ehm... I still use "sys-fs/udev" (not eudev) without systemd.
> No problems so far. Do I have to worry?
>
Nope
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:09 AM, wrote:
>
> The problem is that an ever increasing amount of programs list systemd
> or some of its libs as a depenancy. So it is getting harder and harder
> to opt out.
>
> The situation is similar to the one with udev and variants. Some
> programs list udev as a
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 9:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> systemd is primarily a political project, not a technical one.
>
>> What political benefit do I gain from using and maintaining systemd?
>
Corbin Bird wrote:
>
> The "sys-fs/eudev" package is the Gentoo fork of "sys-fs/udev" for
> people who don't want systemd.
Ehm... I still use "sys-fs/udev" (not eudev) without systemd.
No problems so far. Do I have to worry?
-Matt
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 06:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> We don't have some
>> committee on high pick a winner and tell all the maintainers that they
>> all have to move from supporting x to supporting y.
>
> Fair points across the board but this st
On 12/20/2016 10:25 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The master portage spakes again.
> And the novice was *not* enlightened...
>
>
> Total: 17 packages (11 upgrades, 4 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size of
> downloads: 25097 KiB
> Conflict: 4 blocks (4 unsatisfied)
>
> * Error: The
On 12/20/2016 9:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> systemd is primarily a political project, not a technical one.
> What political benefit do I gain from using and maintaining systemd?
Interesting that you snipped the rest of his comment - or
Regarding the controversy about systemd etc.
The problem isn't that systemd is available, or that there exist a
company named Red Had or that there exist a developer named Lennart
Poettering that develops programs.
The problem is that an ever increasing amount of programs list systemd
or some o
Neil Bothwick:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 23:11:08 +0100, lee wrote:
> > >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them
> > >> already. They are not so hard to write and they only need to be
> > >> written once.
> > > It's too late by then, if eth0 and eth1 already exist, you cannot
On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 05:25:20 +0100, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
> I have no systemd installed...my Linux is running good ole openrc...
> Why all these systemd blockers?
I have just updated a couple of openrc systems and there was no attempt
to pull in the spawn of the devil[tm] - I'm fairly sure t
On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 19:24:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Looks like a reasonably straightforward set of blockers. Your core
> problem seems to be that portage wants to install kmail:4 but if I read
> you correctly earlier in the thread, you want to install kmail-16.12.0.
>
> Correct?
Yes, and I'd a
On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 02:41:15 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
> 161221 Walter Dnes wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 05:25:20AM +0100, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote
> >> sys-apps/systemd:0= required by (sys-apps/dbus-1.10.12:0/0::gentoo,
> >> ebuild scheduled for merge) I have no systemd installed...my L
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