test them and tell me whether they found them useful
enough to be worth packaging... You may also find Steve Long's emerge
helper script useful. It's a bit more featureful than my stub scripts,
which are pretty much just bare emerge wrappers. I believe it can be
found in the
tal, who may be willing to take that latency as they
have better things to do with the space.
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above, please post anything further on the topic to the desktop list,
which I read as well, to keep the dev list from getting too cluttered.
Thanks.)
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appear to be in the Gentoo tree any longer, so that can
be eliminated from the list.
Even the one that's currently under gentoo, enews, arguably doesn't
belong there, since I see files from other overlays there, and some
overlays are independent and may be in fact ultimately targeted
Jeremy Olexa posted 495b81ab.3040...@gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:28:59 -0600:
> Fabio Rossi wrote:
>> On Wednesday 31 December 2008, Duncan wrote:
>>
>>> Except that... in theory, some or all of those apps could technically
>>> be us
_X86_64_32S against `client_errors' can not be
used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=238487
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Mike Auty posted 49614bad.6040...@gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:52:13 +:
> Duncan wrote:
>> Amarok2 - dev-db/mysql-community - ld: /usr/lib64/mysql/libmysqld.a
>> (client.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `client_errors' can not be
>> used w
a technical list (project is otherwise),
and I'm not a dev but learn a lot from those posts, which are after all
technical and you couldn't get more gentoo-dev topic-wise.
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'd be surprised if he doesn't take the idea and run with it as well, as
it's certainly convenient functionality to have and expose, and I can
think of all sorts of reasons it might come in handy and no reason not to
do it.
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"E
'm posting
because it seems it might help answer the "Does this affect actual
userspace behavior?" bit.
I can't help feeling a bit uncomfortable with the discussion here as it's
too much like a normally discouraged bug discussion on the main dev
list. So if people want to
base-pkgfoo, gpe-base/gpegames-pkgbar, etc?
That would closely parallel the kde-base/kdebase-cursors,
kde-base/kdenetwork-kfile-plugins scheme, with options such as
kde-base/konqueror (no upstream category name included) if desired.
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three package managers gets lost as well, maybe
it isn't him, and maybe it isn't me. Somewhere, the logic thread simply
got too difficult to follow and we're both lost.
So Luca, I'd appreciate it too if you tried again from this point in the
original stub-quoted above, a
using concrete version numbers/strings in his
examples, so there's no mistaking what he had in mind. Unfortunately,
without this concreteness I think it's just going to be yet another
argument in a circle, and I think/hope everybody's agreed there have been
enough of those on
with your proposal.
With Y alternative, it could be handled this way. " ?
We won't get anywhere with vague allusions to "what I want". ...
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Luca Barbato posted 4996d819.8080...@gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:41:29 +0100:
> Let try to clarify:
[picking this one to reply to, out of the two]
Thanks. That is much easier to follow. =:^)
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"Every nonfree
reason for removal on its own that it warranted comment,
is all.
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the proponents have a clear way forward, should they wish to
pursue it. Until they do, we might as well quit the discussion as it's
not accomplishing anything, no matter how good it could be or how much of
a block the failure to implement is on future improvements. The council
see
those involved.
At least, that very quickly becomes the case as soon as there's a useful
way to mass-package-unmask, mass-package-keyword, and package-set, and
the various projects already have working if not all that easy solutions
for the first two and sets are available in portage-2.2.
--
effective at both, as it used to be. But the internal
scheduler doesn't seem to understand that so keeps adding stuff to that
todo list as if it were!
So all you youngun's out there, pick it up while you can! Oh, and
[waving cane] GET OFF MY LAWN!!
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n was. There
are or likely will be others...
So yeah, a bump bug might be a bother, but it's worth taking the
pragmatic view and believing that the first one may well prevent others,
if it's dealt with properly.
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"Every nonfr
rom the ebuild info really
doesn't change the problem, leaving us precisely where we were before,
except that it may be useful as a component of one of the other
solutions, and has been proposed as such in a few of the suggested
variants.
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&q
time would serve as an intro period between the returning dev and new
ones that have come in since his retirement. So yeah, maybe a somewhat
abridged inboarding is appropriate for a returning dev, but eliminating
it entirely, as an extended dev-away, might be going too far.
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True. It may well be one component of a full solution, even if it
doesn't on its own provide a full solution.
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idered
worth it there. But devs that have been inactive for months or years,
and who have ignored contacts or even asked to be retired after the
contact? IMO that's needless risk, (almost) entirely down-side (with
"almost" in there only as a CYA on an otherwise absolute "entirel
atively lower chance but much higher damage
potential security breach, which every Gentoo user (aka Gentoo system
sysadmin) therefore has an interest in.
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dly possible as it looks like "dead air" from the other end
when there's 2-3 participants and the discussion has usually long moved
on by the time the submission is ready, in larger groups.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord
I can
get, from a user, sometime *after* I should have known about it, as a
Gentoo user concerned enough to actually follow the dev list to *get*
such information. =:^(
So thanks. Dev or nodev, I'm glad there are folks like you around! =:^)
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k as there's no
active login, despite X and all its apps otherwise running normally.
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now, I'm rather confused on the
topic... but I guess having it so publicly demonstrated keeps me humble.
=:^) But if I'm confused and I spend quite some time on trying to keep
up with such things, what about the poor user that doesn't have that time
to spend?
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=:^) does have certain advantages as you pointed
out, when a specific string change is desired, regardless of context,
which may well change between versions.
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about it. So I only now filed the bug.
[2] [Xorg 1.5 Upgrade Guide] kernel evdev as well as xorg evdev driver
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264827
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264827
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"Every nonfree program has a lord,
t; is equivalent to "$1" "$2" ... [snip]
So they are treated differently within double-quotes (which were used)
and "$@" is NOT the same thing as "$*". But maybe I /did/ miss your
intended meaning. ??
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ing through the variable. thus the same behavior of the whole
> function is as if "$*" is used.
Makes sense now that your short form is expanded to explain the step I
missed. I /knew/ I must be missing the obvious as the simplest way to
take what you wrote was just /too/ obvious. Th
and could go a long way toward encouraging integration of something
similar to those patch scripts directly in portage, as well.
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in) may
well resolve itself over time as they seem to have been treated in
parallel to a large degree. I'm not sure of the status on Issue #3 (big-
picture map-out). Hopefully there has been some progress there as well.
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"Every nonfree
age
maintainer actually having to deal with those bugzilla entries. Like I
said, I have visions of confcache just thinking about it.
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for bug wranglers to use is certainly more user
friendly, and changing the formatting to put the familiar stuff all
together in one spot, preferably top of the output, would be wrangler
friendly as well. =:^)
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"Every nonfree program has a lo
rovided (due to -fPIC
requirements in the dynamic case only, see the recent headaches with
mysql and the library amarok needed from it), killing the static libs
means shorter merge times and can mean significantly less build script
complication. =:^)
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2
ficult or impossible mandates on an after all volunteer
work force, with all the practical ugliness that entails.
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ay be back if you see that some
of these issues have been addressed. Based on that, if indeed the
changes I am beginning to see continue, plan on that return, 'cause those
changes are coming. =:^)
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lone stop to
say thanks once in awhile. It's certainly not every dev (or user, as I
am) that either has the skills for that sort of thing, or even cares
about it, so the least we can do is give you a round of thanks for taking
on what most of us would prefer not even to have to think about
hed to this one.
So project leads? Who wants to be first? =:^)
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impractical for
development as snail mail. If so, I suppose it has left us old fogies
behind, but somehow, I don't believe it's gone /that/ far yet, nor can I
believe it will in the intermediate term future, at least. If it were,
after all, this list should be near deserted. It&#x
Mart Raudsepp posted 1241633816.25192.2.ca...@localhost,
excerpted below, on Wed, 06 May 2009 21:16:56 +0300:
> On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 17:25 +0000, Duncan wrote:
>> Christian Faulhammer posted:
>>
>> > recruiters do quite long IRC sessions with the applicant. Apart
, those considering running for council may wish to
pay special attention to the current series of project status updates as
well, with an eye toward any actions that may be needed to help out
particular projects, and/or revive/close/merge others.
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re's no reason that
can't be done via email, and throwing in some live commit feed action
might make it a bit interesting. =:^)
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"Marijn Schouten (hkBst)" posted
4a02a0e7.5050...@gentoo.org, excerpted below, on Thu, 07 May 2009
10:50:47 +0200:
> Duncan wrote:
>> Plus, as I said, with a pre-arrangement, it's possible to do email
>> reasonably close to real-time as well, close enough they&#x
Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> posted pan.2009.05.06.17.25...@cox.net,
excerpted below, on Wed, 06 May 2009 17:25:15 +:
> As others have occasionally noted, the assumption seems to be that
> developers "do" IRC. While it's certainly a useful thing for those that
&
Markos Chandras posted
200905081342.17562.hwoar...@gentoo.org, excerpted below, on Fri, 08 May
2009 13:42:13 +0300:
> On Friday 08 May 2009 12:19:28 Duncan wrote:
>> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> posted pan.2009.05.06.17.25...@cox.net,
>>[..] If a potential recruit is
uot;free" direct IP sip-calling
worldwide, and with email for code-samples...
Why stick with real-time text-only when there's real-time voice, with
email for file attachments and the like?
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a maste
how it applies to XPrint?
My shot:
Kings: The (old) King is dead. Long live the (new) King.
Xprint: (old) XPrint is dead. Long live (continued) XPrint(ing).
IOW, tho XPrint is dead, printing in X continues (long may it be so).
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"Eve
on from seeing the
earlier rants against it. Such confusion makes for pretty strong
negative conditioning.
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ct? He's an exherbo dev, only here to criticize Gentoo
> and gloat over its perceived failings.
Guys, this isn't going anywhere useful. Please just stop it... or take
it offlist if you must continue.
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"Every nonfree progr
r than that, no preference.
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;d need to go thru the EAPI process to do it, not
simply add it to portage.
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xy-maint
projects, and the method of bringing in or justification for ignoring the
hundreds of existing m-needed packages while arguably creating more,
needs mapped out. Alternatively, bend the proposal into a status change
for one or all of the above, and call a debate on that.
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entoo lists seem to work fine.
You may also want to ask on gmane.discuss. I'm not subscribed
to .devhelp so can't help you directly on that, but perhaps one of the
gmane admins or other users can be of help on gmane.discuss, if no one
here has an immediate answer.
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lanation offlist.)
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bject at hand, because
while we're talking new versions of packages already in-tree here, the
subject at hand is packages that aren't in-tree in any form yet.
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Sven posted loom.20090514t182756-...@post.gmane.org,
excerpted below, on Thu, 14 May 2009 18:34:29 +:
> Duncan <1i5t5.duncan cox.net> writes:
>> FWIW, that'd not be a portage issue per se, but an EAPI issue, since it
>
> I see, very interesting! Sounds like a
ming a bump and new stabilization process, thus, effectively
requiring 60-days working minimum process time (30 no-bugs, 30 stable-
keywording).
[1] Bug #269691, kaffeine
plain:http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269691
secure: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269691
--
Duncan -
ed on the benchmarks,
which is really the first physical movement on the thing, and seems to me
to signal that they are tiring of the debate and want some concrete
numbers to finally put it to rest, approval or disproval. We'll see.
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overlays presumably targeted at eventual tree inclusion.
On the other, regardless of what Gentoo decides, PMs wishing widest
compatibility must be prepared for it anyway. If I'm not mistaken,
paludis has the widest deployment footprint both in practice and by goal
at this point, so nat
ately, it's a council judgment call, and we're actually getting
close!
Unfortunately, "close" is a relative term. =:^( Realistically?
I'm not sure it's going to resolve by the end of this council's term, but
provided the elections don't shake things up t
Nirbheek Chauhan posted
8b4c83ad0905160454h132e44fboecd75784934fe...@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on Sat, 16 May 2009 17:24:57 +0530:
> That's the question you should ask Duncan. Not me. I provided statistics
> to highlight and provide dramatic effect.
Wow, the number of
st, including the rest of the filename), setting the parameters for
further parsing, including of the filename version-string. That year or
two one-time wait could be avoided with a single one-time extension
change instead, if desired.
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"Every non
Ciaran McCreesh posted
20090517015039.2fa04...@snowmobile, excerpted below, on Sun, 17 May 2009
01:50:39 +0100:
> On Sun, 17 May 2009 00:35:45 + (UTC) Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>> As for ciaranm's argument that you're restricting changes to the
>
my understanding of council and QA policy, anyway. I'm open to
correction just as I tried to correct the parent, if needed.
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ich forum,
subject, date posted for thread origin, author, etc). I'd have tried
that if I knew where to look, but there's not enough info in the post as-
is to do so.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-762914.html
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"Every non
the title.
> My dev forums account can't access that subforum, nor the post.
The moderators subforum would explain it here. It would have been nice
to know that in the beginning, but maybe you (Jesús) didn't realize how
restricted that subforum was, or perhaps more likely did but just we
Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> posted pan.2009.05.19.23.18...@cox.net,
excerpted below, on Tue, 19 May 2009 23:18:21 +:
> The moderators subforum
[I see it's moved. Thanks.]
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a maste
hink it necessary.
.
[1] I still use sys-apps/moreutils.
The other one was www-plugins/swfdec-mozilla and its dep media-libs-
swfdec, which I had some trouble with and eventually unmerged in favor of
a couple of youtube downloaders, since youtube was what I mainly used
swfdec for anyway.
ying wait an hour, then let's get rid of the wait
24-hours thing. Otherwise, that's mixed messages to users and as Ciaran
points out, users get confused by such things.
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y) alarming to normal users, especially when a
brand spanking new upgrade is already emitting "deprecated" warnings.
Or should I file the bugs? It seems no one else has and maybe the
maintainers don't have the config for what they're maintaining, or
otherwise don't see
the deprecated warning tracker.
> Thanks...
... And to think of all the time I just spent looking for mdadm and lvm2
bugs and missed that one!
Thanks. I couldn't believe there weren't bugs on it at this late stage,
but I sure couldn't see 'em. CCed.
--
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easier for those
Gentoo admins that would find such a thing useful. Whether they then
start making those profiles public and whether anyone else chooses to use
them is entirely up to the individual admins whose systems would be
affected.
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l of it together addressing a problem is a VERY hard task
as I'm sure CiaranM among others can vouch for. A much smaller PM or
switcher app project is by definition of the smaller size, also much
easier to steer and to get things actually done in.
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as the more practical approach... unless of course you /want/ to debate
it for /years/ before anything gets done. =:^\
Then as it proves its value, it'll ultimately become the de-facto
standard and be integrated into some future version of PMS or whatever.
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Ciaran McCreesh posted
20090528191457.21ab4...@snowcone, excerpted below, on Thu, 28 May 2009
19:14:57 +0100:
> No, it's entirely objective. GLEP 55 clearly shows how the filename
> based options are objectively better than anything else.
Now that's just being facetious.
-
he old way) or at minimum, a one-time change to extension
such that old PM versions don't even see the currently EAPI incompatible
changes.
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ng too, of course =:^).
But the possibility had been proposed before and I don't remember what
came of it, nor have I been following close enough to know if there's
another caveat somewhere that shoots down the eapi.eclass hack, or not.
I'm sure someone else will supply the reason it
, that looks to be where this is headed.
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how
> long, we still don't have LDEPENDs, nor do we have elibs which harring
> envisaged alongside eclasses and EAPI in the first place. "Broken
> process" afaic.
I'd tend to agree.
> Oh btw, -scm [sic] suffix doesn't add ANYTHING to the existing cvs.
> prefix t
itably
escaped trial will confirm it.
So either proposed solution has its caveat that users will ultimately
need to learn to deal with, but I still prefer the unambiguity of ::.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use
27;s more accurate to
say it's a bash-completion bug, while the shell itself works fine. Given
that, we'd probably be OK at least until the gentoo-bashcomp update, and
perhaps it could be worked around there.
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"Every nonfr
rk setting, and indeed, I
happily listen to incoming shoutcast streams all the time despite USE=-
network for this package.
This was a relatively new flag for this package, added in the fresh ~arch
version, and it certainly caused me some initial confusion, until I
actually examined the ebuild
f those.
euse -i
equery b euse
* Searching for euse ...
app-portage/gentoolkit-0.3.0_rc6 (/usr/bin/euse)
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l reinstall from stage tarball (assuming as
suppose I would be if I had been that out of it, that was still even
/using/ stage tarballs as it was then). Imagine people wondering what
happened to xfree86, among other things. I mean, talk about a time-
traveler getting confused by the future!
--
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e done with the signoff of a backup maintainer and/or the supporting
project as well, in the hopefully unusual case that the maintainer that
did the conversion goes MIA when a security bug comes up to press the
matter, so there's always someone else that understands the situation
well
table and I'm sure I'm not an exception in that regard, so
anything that would lose us that valuable testing buffer had better have
a VERY good reason.
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ense route would seem much
more effective at doing what he seems to want to do.
.
[1] I wrote (and revised...) an earlier reply coming to about the same
conclusion, but decided the SNR wasn't high enough to send and the
revisions weren't helping, so I sent it to /dev/null.
--
Du
t that didn't get cleaned
up properly for whatever reason. Since you don't have that dir, you
shouldn't have to worry about it.
Here's some wikipedia links that should serve as beginning points for
further research, if you're curious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thr
x27;s enough of it here, where people get to think about what
they write before they post (whether they actually /do/ or not...). I
don't need more of that sort of stuff in my life. I wasn't there and
don't know, and don't care to know, the details. And my life remains
much s
admin to decide to use
that to store their own ebuilds directly in the tree.
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uses
portage, as there are two other Gentoo-pms (package management spec)
compatible package managers in the tree, paludis and pkgcore. But
portage is still the official Gentoo package manager, and support for the
others can always be added later, if desired.
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ly toward one external entity as suggested here isn't a
good thing at all IMO.
But if that's what gets voted in, well, I guess the devs have spoken, as
I suppose they have if all those candidates now get ranked below
reopen_nominations.
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who /are/ devs, voted
in a non-dev, they'd know what they were doing. Since under the current
system there's no such approval required for proxies, I'd say it's only
fair that they be required to be devs, thus minimizing any controversy
over their status, and votes they may take.)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
d proxy still trying to get up to
speed on what he's supposed to be voting on, as they'd presumably be as
prepared as would the regular voting council member, AND the problem of
non-dev as proxy, since they'd at minimum have been approved by the
council as a whole, if not voted
ber
it's a Gentoo dev list and those of us who are not Gentoo devs are
guests), just keep the comments Gentoo related and don't stray
elsewhere, /particularly/ politics (or religion... etc), even if it's as
parallels or analogies.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msg
many slashes after the http:, konqueror gave
me a no-such-host error):
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
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