of Struts and Log4j. I would like
to donate the code as I think it will be benefit to the developers and users
community.
Thanks,
Stephen
-Original Message-
From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:15 AM
To: Stephen
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE
x27;s framework.
Regards,
Stephen
-Original Message-
From: Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Noel J. Bergman
Subject: RE: Questions about donating code
Hello,
Below is my proposal on DB project.
Background:
This proje
next Thursday.
+1
This is a really excellent idea.
Stephen.
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Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
From my point of view, "disclaimer" page would be enough and
the best "alternative".
+1
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of all newly accepted projects until a further
review indicates that the infrastructure, communications, and decision
making process have stabilized in a manner consistent with other
successful ASF projects. As such, the project has not been formally
endorsed by the ASF.
Stephen.
--
Stephen J
y the community. This
approach reflects a respect for the *decisions* of the community while
delivering the appropriate due-diligence by the responsible PMC.
Stephen.
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For additional
is not available
to the public - period - simple
(c) let the project publish what it wants providing it is
consitent with the license
Stephen.
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Mentor is always pre-proposed by the candidate
(so we don't need go hinting for it).
What do you think?
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Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
* I'd suggest the term "candidate" (as is used in
Roles_and_Responsibilities) or "project" (as in "incubating
[sub]project"),
or even the term "pod", rather than the diminutive "podlet" in describing
the "
sponsor
idea?
++1
Cheers, Steve.
Cheers,
Berin
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t in focus - cvs, lists, etc.
Stephen.
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process and is targeted towards someone who is thinking about
involvement in such a process. Policies are the set of rules that
provide the framework for consistency - its the rules that PMC and
incubator project participants are working under between comencement and
exit.
Cheers, S
about what names we use.
+1
In particular, I like calling the process description a "Process
Description" because that is exactly what it is.
+1
Steve.
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repository with multiple interfaces".
Roy's statement *does* encompass the scope of requirements that I see as
relevant.
Stephen.
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F
itiative and the relevance of
this initiative to areas I am concerned with. I also believe that the
question of scope is also rather relevant to ASF generally if near-term
needs are taken into consideration.
Stephen.
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---
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 21:47, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
Small note - some of the participants on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] are
discussing the actual requirements - which from my (and other) point(s)
of view go beyond a file-system http protocol cut
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 23:18, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason van Zyl wrote:
I have challenged you to give me a scenerio that I can't satisfy with
something like the current Maven repository. Instead you drone on ad
nauseum about the theoretical. Let
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 00:35, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason:
I must confess that I am intrigued by your approach to collaboration!
That's because you're at least as deficient as I am in the realm of
collaboration. Neither you or I are any great shining e
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 02:50 AM, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 01:08, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 00:35, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Jason:
I must confess that I am intrigued
ccountable
person is established (e.g. the individual is the Chair and the problem
is locating a new Mentor).
Cheers, Steve.
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For additiona
tor - etc. etc. I.e. think more about facilities to enable members
of the community to facilitate the exit of project under incubation.
Cheers, Steve.
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Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
...
> An important
aspect here is visibility of status and pending actions. This takes
me back to the discussion about using JIRA - that's the sort of
example where I could checkout open-actions on any incubator project
- and based
a couple of other Avalon committers that would want
get involved as well.
Stephen.
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||
| Magic by Merlin
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
"Depot"
+1
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| Magic by Merlin|
| Production
e to the proposal is
lengthy so would a span of a week from now be reasonable?
+1 .. its a reasonable proposition
Steve.
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||
| Magic by Merlin|
|
n open source because you make them happen.
Don't wait for the PMC to make a decision. Push for exit - make it
happen - get on with the prime objective.
Cheers, Stephen.
Jochen
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soon as possible, in order to avoid conflicts with
trademarks that are upcoming later?
Do whatever you can to clear the item off the agenda.
It's an obsticle to incubator exit - clear the obsticle using whatever
means that are available to you.
St
PMC in its role at the start and playing less of a
role as time goes on. But (IMO) you need someone to formally
bootstrap the PPMC and ensure everything is going properly.
+1
Stephen.
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||
+1 on everything below (including the tinker's cuss).
Stephen.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Aaron Bannert wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 03:43:56PM +1100, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
I'm confused by what you are saying. Do you believe there should
be one person in an authoritative positio
ed as the
point-man. Someone from Apache ready to say "yes" - I'm available and
committed on both sides of the equation.
Cheers, Steve.
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||
| Magic by Merlin
y! A good test of maturity. If the mentor is doing
absolutely nothing and things are going well, then there is no need
for a mentor and quite possibly no need for the project to be in
incubation anymore.
Exactly!
Cheers, Steve.
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m confused as to what on earth oversite and assistance has to do
with liason?
Steve indicated that Noel was filling all three those roles.
Slow down Leo!
You putting words into my mouth that were not there to start with.
Cheers, Steve.
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Leo Simons wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Leo Simons wrote:
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Leo Simons wrote:
Absolutely! A good test of maturity. If the mentor is doing
absolutely nothing and things are going well, then there is no
need for a mentor and quite possibly no need for the project
Leo Simons wrote:
I propose we release MerlinDeveloper from incubation and allow avalon to
import the code.
Please place your votes:
[X] +1 -- yes
--
||
| Magic by Merlin|
| Production by Avalon
Leo Simons wrote:
I proposed we release MerlinDeveloper from incubation and allow avalon
to import the code. The Incubator PMC has voted. The results of the vote
are as follows:
+1 - 13 (of which 3 non-binding)
+0 - 0
-1 - 0
there's consensus; the vote passes. This concludes the incubation for
[X] +1 - The Geronimo project has met the requirements
for incubation and will be recommended to the
board for TLP status
[ ] -1 - The Geronimo project as not met the requirements
for incubation
--
|---|
| Magic by Merlin
Nicola - apparently you have the moral high ground on the subject of
"deescalation" . care to justify this or shall we let it drop?
Stephen.
--
|---|
| Magic by Merlin |
| Production
Nicola:
If you have a problem with my annoyance at your presumption to preach -
then present it here away from any particular project.
Stephen.
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Brian McCallister wrote:
As an innocent bystander of the flamewar that spawned this email:
Nicola commented on some technical changes, it started deteriorating
into shed painting, Nicola posted an email on de-escalating conflict in
technical discussions, then Stephen attacked Nicola directly
ile. I've suggested to Nicola
Ken that he start work on a web page to cover ideals, techniques and
scenarios.
-1
Sorry but Nicola Ken is not qualified. I'm sorry Nicola but you
instigated this and only you can fix it.
Stephen.
--
|
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I've suggested to Nicola Ken that he start work on a web page
to cover ideals, techniques and scenarios [related to community
building and conversation skills]
-1
Sorry but Nicola Ken is not qualified.
Your opinion is noted, but that is not your call to make. I asked him i
Sander Striker wrote:
From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 8:58 PM
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I'm quite confident that a good portion of the inhabitants of this
list doesn't care much about who is going to "win"
this flamefest.
+1
[X] Accept MyFaces into the Incubator
[ ] Reject MyFaces
--
|---|
| Magic by Merlin |
| Production by Avalon |
| |
| http://avalon.apache.org |
|
imagine that neither
general@ nor [EMAIL PROTECTED] are to be bothered with thread fallout debris
like this. It ain't fun nor educating to watch.
well, sometimes you have to deal with unpleasant things. that's life.
I think most of us are still perplexed as to why Stephen chose this list
it is appropriate I can move
the discussion to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - but frankly, I think it is more
appropriate that this issue is dealt with here. Either way, the
question of "mentor" responsibility and accountability will be raised.
Stephen.
--
|---|
|
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
unnecessary and unwarranted disruption of an incubator project
Let it go. No one other than you is characterizing it that way. Just
let
it go.
I let it go for three months and now I'm seeing the consequences on not
speaking up earlier
o me that he's talking about a very real dark-side of the ASF.
You know - the side of Apache where certain individuals enjoy playing
with private lists, protected themselves while at same time spreading
lies, slander, and real fear. Mix this with the incu
> -Original Message-
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2005 3:55 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Apache Directory Developers List; Directory PPMC
> Subject: RE: [VOTE] Directory exiting Incubator
>
> Alex,
>
> Continue on your pa
. The question is: what should be done about
the apparent jboss prereq?
Migrate to Avalon Phoenix oir Merlin?
:-)
Cheers, Steve.
- Sam Ruby
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Cheers Steve.
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Sam Ruby wrote:
James is the only project that I recall that did it of their own
initiative.
Correction - Avalon was of its own iniative.
Cheers, Steve.
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Sam Ruby wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
James is the only project that I recall that did it of their own
initiative.
Correction - Avalon was of its own iniative.
Hearing that statement makes me feel VERY good. ;-)
Zutt - thinking back to the days of the reorg
whom is the ASF Member accountable?
Cheers, Steve.
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an exclusion of Apache
contributors - they needs to be some form of accountability by members
towards non-members on matters concerning incubation.
Stephen.
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Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
I am specific asking this in the context of the incubator policies. If
I understand correctly, the policies require project sponsorship by a
member and from what member only sheparding. While parhaps with best
intent - it is excluding
re detail. For example, if a Member undertakes such a
resonsibility, to whom is the member responsible and what would be the
scope of such a responsibility? The answers to these questions will go
a long way to addressing the subject of this thread.
Stephen.
p.s. Please keep in mind that I looking a
that
a podling can expect to be provided by the Sponsor, and the expectations
from the PMC towards the Sponsor.
Stephen.
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For additio
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Stephen,
I haven't read through your material, but unless I am wrong about what I
wrote last night, an ASF Officer also qualifies.
Berin Lautenbach suggested gathering and collating material from this
discussion on the Wiki. Some related pages are:
t few days - it
appears that this is *not* official policy. However, it does appear
that this is assumed policy in some quarters.
Stephen.
Hen
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week.
Stephen.
Phil Steitz wrote:
I have been following this thread with interest and have found the
discussion very informative. Thanks to all who have provided insight
for those of us with less knowledge and experience with the Apache way.
I have been a bit surprised by the lack of discussion
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
If there is interest, I could try and re-word the content I put
together on the Sponsor responsibilities such that the role of
Sponsor is more oriented towards evangalist/champion, complementing
the role of Shepard.
Absolutely! The
umentation, process,
policy, and accountability.
Stephen.
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Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her peers.
Umm,
... and the "standard member line&
PMC.
Cheers, Steve.
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ppliment" to a structural framework becomes a rational and pagmatic
concept that reflects, embrasses what I belive it means to be "an Apache
Member".
Stephen.
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Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
I said nothing about documentation, process, policy or accountability.
LOL
We certainly agree on this!
:-)
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t a Candidate shall document a stated exit objective and sites TLP or
sub-project options.
Stephen.
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ye for the potential pitfalls that may exist for
podlings).
But that's for tommorow.
Stephen.
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tities and facilitate the
introduction of a replacement Sponsor.
My impression is that we are actually aiming towards the same thing but
that what you thinking of as Sheperd is what I'm thinking of as
Sponsor. There are a few other little things but I thought it best to
get these two items cla
e *scope* of the eventual TLP is multi-platform and
multi-language. The words "will support" are a subject of inevitable
community development and contributions.
Stephen.
Phil
--- Noel
---
But
that isn't the case so I'll try my best to present the issues I see in
this email.
Zut ... Australia really is at the end of the earth relative to France!
(Zut translated into Australian is B* H***).
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Steve,
From: Stephen McConnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Small change in wording. "If Ted stops doing his role as Shepherd,
then I would see it as the responsibility of the XML Project PMC
Chair" to step in and find someone else."
Wooop - a compound correction to an otherwise perfect composition:
"If
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Stephen,
Actually, I think you had it right the first time. The XML Project PMC
should take the first responsibility to find someone where their
representative to stop doing his role.
Actually - I disagree.
If I say that the Board is responsible. What I am saying is
as to the action.
*
Steve.
(who is terribly slow and dull witted in these matters)
Stephen J. McConnell
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Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Stephen,
If we ever sit down in some hypothetical cafe, remind me to have a talk with
you about how to present an argument for best effect. :-)
Once I got past some of your phrasing, which I consider somewhat
injudiciously selected considering your likely audience
otential absuse
or neglect of said responsibilites by said PMC.
Cheers, Steve.
p.s. Who is someone terrible disappointed that you, an Australin
to-boot, removed the so carefully and selectively prepared phrase
"Incubator PMC meanderings" in you last wiki edit!
Will I
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Think of this entire process as the establishment of a set of imutable
procedures that will protect us from the breakdown of their system.
Things don't work that way, Stephen. People don't. Especially the kind of
people who participate here. This is not a
ve.
--- Noel
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Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I hope that the policies, procedures, responsibilities, and
ultimate accountabilities, will have a tangible and net-
positive impact on the overall development of the Apache Community.
:-)
That's it - no umbrella questions?
This is so dissapointing!
Steve!
--
St
ities of the Sponsoring
Entity". The content is basically describing responsibilities of the
Shepherd. It would read better if this section were removed and the
respective responsibilities integrated with the definition of Shepherd.
Steve.
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that is
another subject with a different set of concerns and should be
distinctly seperate from the policies and procedures of incubation.
Cheers, Steve.
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we need.
Cheers, Steve.
(I think. Grumble grumble, more work, mutter mutter :>)
LOL
:-P
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robert burrell donkin wrote:
is there anything to prevent gump builds being set up for incubating
projects?
(other than actually doing the work, of course ;)
Only the idea of using of getting JIRA settup here at Apache and using
it instead.
Stephen.
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Stephen McConnell wrote:
robert burrell donkin wrote:
is there anything to prevent gump builds being set up for incubating
projects?
(other than actually doing the work, of course ;)
Only the idea of using of getting JIRA settup here at Apache and using
it instead.
Retruaction
site is the 'official' documentation; the wiki pages
are for collaborative development, including stuf destined for the
Web site.]
Any reason why the IncubatorMussings document should not be referended
from ApacheIncubatorProjectPages ?
Steve.
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re to endorce the publication of any
artifact related to an incubated project.
Can anyone explain to me the error implied by these assumptions?
Stephen.
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an formal opinion on this subject?
Stephen.
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grounds can a release be published?
You cannot have one without the other.
Stephen.
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Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Stephen,
You will see from my last e-mail that I've lost
the plot somewhere, but some thoughts because I
can't resist.
:-)
I was looking at the same thing yesty, but from a slightly different angle.
I thought (maybe wrong???) that Incubation was
not about &q
y the Incubator is a loaded question.
Stephen.
Roy
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Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
My own theory is that this entire discussion is exceeding the bounds of
duristiction of the Incubator PMC.
why?
The incubator has a scope concerning "incubation". I hope the incubator
aims to to provide the role of
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Any reason why the IncubatorMussings document should not be
referended from ApacheIncubatorProjectPages ?
It is now.
Good work Berin!
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ew feature as distinct from offical Apache releases. I
will normally publish a snapshot release on non-Apache hardware -
whereas with PMC published content I try to follow Apache distribution
rules/guidelines as best as possible.
Stephen.
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Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
The incubator has a scope concerning "incubation". I hope the incubator
aims to to provide the role of gatekeeper together with a support
infrasture the accelerate the sucessful exit of incubated projects.
so f
robert burrell donkin wrote:
(sorry stephen i should have probably been clearer.)
i was looking for an official(ish) statement from roy or one of the
other senior (board level) ASF folks.
(i'm happy to take active steps to ensure that ASF policy is enforced
by the jakarta pmc - an
ndidate.
3. Incubator PMC hold the right to veto.
This would bring us to a unicameral solution while maintaining
appropriate checks and balances through the diligence of the Incubator.
Stephen.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
So we're yack yacking about the incubator (again). The incubator AFAI
dealing with new TLP
candidates.
Stephen.
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