I was installing wheezy this morning on a second hard drive and I noted
that systemd named packages have crept their way into the wheezy default
installs. I'm presuming that they are compatibly named or part of a
systemd/system 5 shim since systemd is not actually running. I'm guessing
they did t
Just my 2 cents on the whole issue of UEFI and Grub...Everyone should
take the time to learn what UEFI is and how it works. The time and
headaches you save later are worth it.
1. Not all versions of UEFI are created equal. If you have never used
UEFI, I seriously suggest that you find out if yo
Funny thing. I hear a lot of complaining about systemd, and yes, i think
some of it is justified, but consider this...Rather than joining the
project and steering it in another direction, or creating patches to fix
what you do not like, everyone is just standing about complaining. Now
this is not
On Tuesday, February 03, 2015 01:04:10 AM Vlad wrote:
> GNOME and KDE are bloated, and DEs should not put requirements on anything,
> they are nothing more than GUI alternatives to the shell.
DE's are not the only piece of software I was referring to. In the short run,
they are certainly the mos
On Wed, 2015-02-04 at 14:57 +, BRM wrote:
>
>
> FYI - as a KDE user I've paid attention to KDE and systemd where I
> can.
> KDE goes far beyond Linux, so for them to only support systemd would
> be foolish.
> And they are certainly not only supporting systemd.
I am also a KDE user also.
On Sunday, February 08, 2015 12:00:01 PM dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
> From: Daniel Cegiełka
> To: bill.m.m...@gmail.com
> CC: Dng@lists.dyne.org
> Date: Today 04:01:42 AM
>
>
> "NOTE: I plan to finish development of LILO at 12/2015 because of some
> limitations (e.g. with BTFS, GPT,
> I use linux even without partition... with Grub 2 :) In this thread
> you can note that the Grub 2 does not have too many fans. In my
> opinion, the best choice is extlinux... but we discuss the same topic
> in two threads.
>
Apologies. I get the list in digest format, and clearly missed that
"John clearly states that he believes the problems are distinct from
systemd. While many here may not necessarily agree, I do agree that various
aspects of the system have become, if not complex, at least more opaque
than in the past.”
You're right. I think the problems, and frankly systemd as w
Hey, Steve! Sorry about the "tome" but it is an interesting and long-winded
subject.
“I agree that use of C has lessened, and that less of us understand C
today. I disagree that this is necessarily the cause of the problem.”
I'm afraid that is where we differ, Steve, at least in the overall pic
> Dear developpers and maintainers, please continue providing us with
> applications written in the language you prefer.
That is always an appreciated request, Diedler! =)
> I have personnal feelings about which languages are productive and
> produce bug-free software and which, in the con
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 09:27:57 AM Didier Kryn wrote:
> No no , T.J. , I don't think your emails are a nuisance. I was
> rather thinking of mine, having expressed all sorts of frustrations on
> this list while the good guys are silently doing the job we are all
> waiting for with great
If I might add my opinion to the discussion, I will be very clear in saying
that even attempting to stay somewhat in sync with Debian is a waste of
valuable time and effort, and deserves a resounding “No” vote.
I'm all for using Debian upstream to minimize effort for the first releases,
but if
> I think this is a good idea, even if only to keep me motivated I'll
> start.
Thanks for the update, Jude. It is appreciated.
I'll state from the outset this is entirely a suggestion. I think it may help
get outsiders involved, but the concepts are entirely subjective.
What I was really
> possible From:Luke Leighton
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Date: Today 01:44:25 PM
>
>
> i believe you may be severely underestimating the workload that the
> current debian maintainers handle. there are over 35,000 packages,
> and i believe something like 1,000 maintainers. there
>
> Systemd, to me, is a horror story. The more I read the scarier it gets.
>
> At the very beginning of the 219 Lennart announcement you find this:
> > Note that this version is not available in Fedora F22/F23 yet. The
> > linker on ARM segfaults. Since the i386 and x86_64 versions built
> > f
This was inevitable and expected. I'm not trying to be an "I told you so" but
I have mentioned this is a likely scenario before now. It's not the end of
the universe, however.
You can:
a) patch the affected code.
b) Use a shim that provides traps for both services without actually using
Syst
> Re: [Dng] KDE systemd lock-in
> From: Steve Litt
> LOL, for the first time in history, T.J. and I agree on something. I
> too said KDE would soon be in the systemd bot army.
Hopefully, we will have many more such civilised agreements and disagreements,
Steve! =) I look forward to them
> My philosopher as a free software author is this: The buck stops with
> me. If my software screws up, it's my fault and my responsibility to
> fix, regardless of the actual root cause is in code I wrote or a tool I
> use.
>
> If I were having problems with two different compilers treating my c
On Monday, February 23, 2015 04:46:34 PM you wrote:
> > My philosopher as a free software author is this: The buck stops with
> > me. If my software screws up, it's my fault and my responsibility to
> > fix, regardless of the actual root cause is in code I wrote or a tool I
> > use.
> >
> > If I w
> I'm just wondering how this is going to affect KDE apps. I have several KDE
> apps installed on my current system, and really like them. It would be a
> pity if I couldn't use them in the future, though some of them could easily
> be replaced with non-KDE equivalents.
I don't think you need t
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 10:26:49 AM dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
> Re: [Dng] Important changes in Linux 3.20 (4.0?)
> From: Isaac Dunham
> To: Hendrik Boom
> CC: dng@lists.dyne.org
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:40:06AM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 1
> From: Rob Owens
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>
> - Original Message -
>
> > From: "T.J. Duchene"
> >
> >
> >
> > Gnome already depends on systemd, but the apps do not.
>
> Not exactly true. My eyes were open to the
> [
> From: David Harrison
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>
> Last week I volunteered (was volunteered?) to contact the Xfce team and
> ask them whether systemd loomed on their horizon. Here is the report
> that was promised.
>
David, you are awesome! =) Thanks so much for taking the time
On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 13:11 -0800, Go Linux wrote:
> This excellent analysis of the systemd debacle was just posted over on FDN.
> Should be required reading IMO. Enjoy!
>
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371
>
> golinux
>
I must respectfully disagree. I find the a
On Tue, 2015-02-24 at 22:40 +0100, Oz Nahum Tiram wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
>
>
> I was getting desparate thinking there will be no alternative to
> systemd's logind.
>
> I also saw the consolekit was depreciated for quite a while. Alas! I
> was happy to
>
> find this just now:
>
> https://gi
Quite frankly, I would not overly concern myself with Lennart's
Poettering's opinion.
He has been quoted: "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I
probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets."
That's probably true in many ways. I've seen plenty of them, how
On Fri, 2015-02-27 at 18:13 +, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 01:56:56PM +, Matthew Melton wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> > >
> > > Just to support my point, Debian has a great logo, but this is what is
> > > currently happening to the users of Jessie, thanks to the
> > > systemd-nonsens
On Fri, 2015-02-27 at 23:38 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> Bottom line is this: If you make a modular system with thin interfaces
> and sane components, somebody will make a block diagram representing it,
> accurately, in its entirety.
>
> It could be argued that the email, sockets, and djb softwa
On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 21:03 +0100, Philip Lacroix wrote:
>
> I wouldn't call "personality clash" the case of a user having specific
> problems
> with systemd's networking tentacles on Debian Jessie, don't you think?
Actually, yes I would call it a personality problem, but only because I
have s
On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 18:11 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
> With all respect, T.J., those are merely programming languages--shell, C
> and C++ are also "hard to extract"--but none are trying to dictate
> policy.
I would not consider C in that group, as the system actually requires
the C library
On Sun, 2015-03-01 at 21:12 +0100, Philip Lacroix wrote:
> As other members have already pointed out, this is not a fair
> comparison.
Perhaps. The reasons I made the comparison are:
a) All of them have a dependency chain so interwoven and complex that
they become non-trivial to remove. You
Evening!
Just wanted to shout out that tonight I compiled the new XFCE 4.12
released yesterday. Like Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride: I hate
waiting...
There are some nice improvements in there, and I would definitely
recommend it over the version that Devuan is likely to inherit from
Debian
On 03/01/2015 05:56 PM, Tor Myklebust wrote:
The perl-base package pre-depends on libc6 and dpkg. And nothing else.
I was not referring to all the software that depends on them when using
Debian/Devuan. I've never believed that they make good choice for a
required component. Frankly, I've
On 03/02/2015 12:16 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
I was not referring to all the software that depends on them when
using Debian/Devuan.
*I was referring to all the software that depends on them when using
Debian/Devuan. *
Bad editing on my part. Mea Culpa
On 03/02/2015 01:01 AM, Dima Krasner wrote:
I wonder - is it possible to mix 4.12 components with 4.10 ones?
If yes, we could backport only user-visible parts (xfwm4, Thunar, xfce4-panel,
etc') to keep maintenance costs down.
My first response to that is probably "Sorry, but no." While the
On 03/02/2015 01:57 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
So the problem is not the language.
While I cited Perl and Python in particular, the gist of my rant was
about sloppy coding practices. I singled a few things out because I
personally feel that their communities can be regarded as some of the
worst off
On 03/02/2015 08:13 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 07:01:24AM -0500, Gravis wrote:
[cut]
Hi Gravis,
I appreciate that, but I personally can't see how the problems of
garbage collection in Java are related with good or bad programming
practices, or with a supposedly terribly long c
On 03/02/2015 09:11 AM, Tor Myklebust wrote:
I'm even more confused by your position than I was before.
I can see your point. I'll try to explain more concisely.
When I call something "overuse", I am referring to the ideas that an
interpreted language must be used as "glue" between two bi
On 03/02/2015 10:49 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
On
And as they have already explained above, this is exactly the reason
why some non-critical Debian system utilities (such as debconf or
adduser) are written in Perl or Python :) And they were so cool to
manage to reduce the dependencies of these packages
On 03/02/2015 11:05 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
If I were the king of all open source, and a programmer asked to write
a program in C, I would ask them to justify that. Will their
performance bottleneck be the code itself rather than the typist's
fingers? Will the time taken by their program material
Sorry stupid Mail program sent it before I finished. Keyboard seems to
be having a bad day.
On 03/02/2015 11:05 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
Because here's the thing. We all say we're great programmers, but
somehow, on lots of software, buffers get overrun. Pointers go errant.
Programs proceed a
Later on, we may still want to have a respin installer and/or liveCD
with Mate default and anyway Mate is simple to apt-get install.
With XFCE 4.12, just released any interest I had in Mate is now
diminished considerably. I've nothing against Mate personally, but
objectively speaking, XFCE
On 03/02/2015 05:33 PM, Tor Myklebust wrote:
This is indeed true, but it seems like a social problem rather than a
technical problem. People can, and will, write garbage software no
matter what tools they have. It might pay to let them do this with as
little pain as possible so they can go
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:25:23 +
KatolaZ wrote:
> Well, if you found that *for your particular tasks* C can replace Perl
> or Python, I believe you. But it's just not true that this should be
> the case for everybody else, in every possible use case.
>
What I have found is that many of the ar
On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:46:17 +0100
Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> Le 02/03/2015 23:43, T.J. Duchene a écrit :
> > We just see things differently. My first question would be: is
> > there are a justified reason NOT to use C?
>
> There is a very good reason, and
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 18:11:56 +0100
"Tom Collins" wrote:
> http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/03/02/1037248
> " VLC Media Player Gains Support For Logging To Systemd's Journal"
>
> Honestly, I am starting to suspect that userland will need to be
> entirely forked to stay away from systemd. I
On 03/03/2015 09:07 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
As time passed, they kept finding new uses for their scripting
language. Occasionally they would realize and existing module needed
major new functinoality, and it was easier to write the new version in
Scheme than to modify the old. Over two years o
On 03/03/2015 07:19 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
So what you're saying is that all languages are syntactic sugar over
assembly? :)
Not at all. C was designed specifically to allow code to be portable,
instead of assembly which is not.
I said "usually". What I mean is that many arguments in f
dea that GC languages are
better. I believe they create the worst kind of programmers: lazy.
t.j.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 01:39:55AM -0600, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> >
> > On 03/03/2015 09:07 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > >As
On 03/04/2015 01:25 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
I guess it is very likely that the first release of Devuan will use
>the re-branded Mozilla products.
>
>As far as I understood, the main reason for the re-branding is the
>Mozilla license that does not comply with DSFG
>(https://www.debian.org/social_
The only reason that I suggested Chromium is that it is *already* in the
Debian repository. For those concerned about security and maintenance,
that means that it is no worse than the rest of the software in Debian.
The reasons I have less respect for Firefox than I used to are really
simple.
I'm somewhat confused here. I'm not arguing against anyone expressing
opinions, but what does all this chatter about "big brother" and "I
don't trust Google" accomplish? We were talking about Chromium, not
Chrome. There is a HUGE difference.
If someone has issue with the code, it's open. G
> "Go look at the code, it's open" is a common "argument" i hear from
> pro-systemd advocates. Curious. About looking at the code: have you
> personally audited chrome's code, top to bottom, OpenBSD-style? 'Cos if you
> haven't - it is a big piece of software -, well your argument is moot
Nu
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2015/msg00031.html
>I think ^THIS is probably the biggest reason not to use Chromium.
>Never mind whether it's affiliated with Google or whether that makes it
untrustworthy.
>If you can't keep it updated for the full lifetime of the release,
>Iceweasel and Chromium are both updated to the upstream-supported version
periodically (when the current version is no longer supported).
>The amount of churn between versions and the number of versions means that
it would be very difficult to backport patches.
Yes, certainly. My point was the
-Original Message-
From: Nate Bargmann [mailto:n...@n0nb.us]
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 6:36 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] Plan for Devuan to use Mozilla products as is
Unfortunately, this sort of inconsistency toward their definition of
"stable" caused problems in oth
-Original Message-
From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:52 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets
Hi KatolaZ,
Naturally, my crystal ball is no better than anybody else's, but my
prediction is t
I'm assuming that in posting this, you are asking for opinions.
I believe that a form of recognized membership should be open to anyone that
someone plays a *significant* role. The reason for such is to make sure
that people feel part of the community and that they are appreciated. A
member shou
anyone really wants to do - I'm
sure you would rather be coding - but sometimes those sort of gestures are
important to others.
Thanks
t.j.
-Original Message-
From: Jaromil [mailto:jaro...@dyne.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 7:46 AM
To: T.J. Duchene
Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
-Original Message-
> On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote:
> > I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine'
> > repo with the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats.
>
From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com]
What would especially float my
this looks like
> a
> sustainable goal to begin with. But I understood this thread started with
> questioning the long term policy.
[T.J. Duchene] Nothing wrong with that. I'm just and only saying that if
Devuan's goal is to release Devuan 1.0, then the best and most reli
Hey Steve!
"Do you understand what mailing list this is?"
Yes. I do. I didn't start the discussion. I actually recommended
tabling it until after Devuan is released.
"Why in the *world* would we go to the substantial trouble of
depoetterizing Debian if we wanted systemd to sneak back in via some
From: T.J. Duchene [mailto:t.j.duch...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 2:25 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 75
Hey Steve!
"Do you understand what mailing list this is?"
Yes. I do. I didn't start the discussion. I actually recomme
Sorry about that bad Subject line, gentlemen. I used Gmail's web interface
last night and it totally screwed things up.
@Steve Litt, Numo, and Patrick:
Frankly everyone, without trying to be rude here - that is your prerogative
whether you like or hate Gnome, systemd or whatever. I support
> > >
> > True. This description of the project contains already a lot of
> > the ideas we are shaking on the list.
> >
> > There are still concerns about the fact that some of the software
> > we use are big hairballs and enforce technical lock-ins. Eg. the Linux
> > kernel and the X-
[T.J. ] Hi Jude!
Wayland is basically just that--a complete rewrite of X, built around design
requirements that were not present when X11 was designed. Think of Wayland
as X12, and think of Xwayland as the X11 compatibility layer.
[T.J. ] Yes, I know. =)
Also, userspace mode se
From: Jude Nelson [mailto:jud...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 3:50 PM
To: T.J. Duchene
Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] FW: Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?
Technically, Wayland is the protocol definition, not the implementation
(i.e. think X11 vs
> -Original Message-
> From: Joerg Reisenweber [mailto:reisenwe...@web.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:33 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update and milestone
>
> On Tue 24 March 2015 22:17:20 Steve Litt wrote:
> > This systemd debacle increased
>
> Are you for real?
>
[T.J. ] Just to clear things up.
> If so:
>
> 1) Drepper maintained glibc, not gcc. These are two separate projects.
True. I always treat GCC and glibc as somewhat synonymous since they go
hand in hand. You can't have one without the other for all intent
KatolaZ,
[T.J. ] What I said was: " It should be important to note that a segfault
can be caused by any number of things, that can be unrelated to systemd
itself. I do grant you that systemd has its share of undesirables, but it
could be exposing a flaw in the lower libraries as well. A lot
Defaults are not necessarily caused by glibc itself
Defaults = Segfaults. Don't you just hate autocorrect?
T.J.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
> If something goes wrong somewhere and X11 segfaults (which I think does
> not happen more than once in a few decades, at least with the stable
version
> of Xorg), then we might complain and make a fuss, but in the end is not
that
> big deal. Having systemd as PID 1 segfaulting is a completely
> >
> > Bug#761658: Please do not default to using Google nameservers
> >
> > Marco tagged it as "wontfix". Seriously, if I didn´t configure a
> > nameserver I *mean* it. I don´t want it to just choose a Google
> > nameserver then, without even telling me.
[T.J. ] To be honest, I do not quite get
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Borowski [mailto:kilob...@angband.pl]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 9:41 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan
>
> On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 08:38:07PM -0500, T.J. Duchene w
> -Original Message-
> From: Franco Lanza [mailto:next...@nexlab.it]
> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 5:36 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: [Dng] What do you guys think about "Suggest" and "Recommends"
> dependency?
>
> Personally on debian i was using from date
>
> APT:Install-Rec
>
> Where i come from ISP's dynamic IP lease times are *very* long, you need to
> reboot the home router to get a new IP and even then you may get the
> same IP. It's not that dynamic, at all. Add that with data your browser
> provides, your *.google.com in|direct usage, etc... it's easy to correl
> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Steigerwald [mailto:mar...@lichtvoll.de]
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 3:36 AM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Another reason of why I am considering Devuan
>
> Please do not Cc me personally on your reply.
[T.J. ] Apologies. "Reply to a
,
> >
> > You're s demotivating! Systemd was never a problem, it's
> > wonderful, you're just a troll! Just go with the program and use it:
> > This is the 21st century, so we need a 21st century init system.
> > Systemd is modular, it's comprised of nothing but modules. I think Don
> > Armstro
> -Original Message-
> From: Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI [mailto:ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org]
> Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:34 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd
>
> On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 00:11:55 +0200
> toto titi wrote:
>
> -Original Message-
> From: toto titi [mailto:voidtothete...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:25 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: [Dng] systemd : the perfect Unix philosophy
>
> I love that one :
>
> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.directives.h
> -Original Message-
> From: neofu...@ww7.be [mailto:neofu...@ww7.be] On Behalf Of Neo
> Futur
> Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 11:10 PM
> To: T.J. Duchene
> Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!
>
> I m a gentoo and mageia
> -Original Message-
> From: Jaromil [mailto:jaro...@dyne.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 2:28 AM
> To: T.J. Duchene; dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd
>
> hi T.J.
>
> On 6 April 2015 01:37:23 CE
>
> What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
> continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically
born
> to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince us that
> systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and *necessary*? I don't want to
Anyone wants to contact me is certainly welcome to do so off of the Devuan
list, on any subject they please.
I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I believe that it is in Devuan's best
interest that I leave. By removing myself from the list, legitimate
conversation can continue. I'm still interest
On 2015-04-15 19:01, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 06:39:29PM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> > >
> > > systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd.
> >
> > Yes, but cause of you have things that depend
>Also, if one really, really, really needs a systemd burdened software,
>he could always run it in a Docker container.
Hey, Steve! Good to hear from you!
Now that is a very good point. Unfortunately, running systemd inside of
Docker container requires a privileged container and does
>This is the exact situation in which I'm glad for containers and VMs.
>Use all the systemd you want, but keep it in a Biosafety level 4
>containment facility.
I'd use a VM. I suspect a container or chroot would not be sufficient. =)
All jokes aside, this would be why I am watching the systembs
With respect, Edward, I can't imagine why you are taking the "long way
around" in regards to systemd XFCE 4.12 can be compiled without systemd to
my knowledge. That would eliminate any concerns.
T.J.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://
> -Original Message-
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of David Hare
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:12 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development
>
> While we're waiting for vdev (that does look like the way t
> -Original Message-
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
> Reurich
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:58 PM
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: [Dng] Devuan - Fork or Derivative (or perhaps both)
>
> Hi
>
> I wonder if Devuan should rebrand its relationship t
Unfortunately this seems to be a growing trend following the Microsoft playbook
of acquisition, suppression, and extinction on various Linux communities and
mailing lists I've been privy to as of recent.
Fewer and fewer distributions have avoided systemd but discussion into
alternatives i
I am reposting this with apologies to all concerned. Outlook mangled the
message text. The top few paragraphs were not my own. They belong to James
P.
>Unfortunately this seems to be a growing trend following the Microsoft
playbook of acquisition, suppressi
>
> I think that has already happened for quite some time. The latest udev
> package outside systemd source in Debian is 175-7.2 according to
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/udev. In Debian jessie it is provided by
> systemd package as shown on https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/systemd. I am
> still
> I think the fact that I pointed out clearly shows that there is very good
> technical reason to exclude udev, unless you are willing to be the maintainer
> of udev outside systemd source tree in Devuan.
[T.J. ] Please understand that I very much respect your position, and I agree
with you that
You both made good points. I've been around a while, so I'll just speak my
mind. If that bothers anyone, please "plug your ears."
I've used Unix before Linux existed, and after. I've seen ideas come and
go. Systemd is absolutely nothing new, nor is the community reaction to it
even surprising.
I thought it was already settled and decided by the VUA that Devuan Jessie
will use udev. I agree with this stance, for the same reason as T.J. points
out--udev is production-ready, whereas vdev is not. It's the pragmatic
thing to do--I only have a handful of hours per week to work on vdev, so
> Hello T.J.,
>
> I didn't mean to express anything related to "put up or shut up".
Actually, I am someone who would pat you on the back if you did. Talk is
cheap, and quite frankly, I when dealing with Linux fans I often hear a lot of
talk and see very little. I feel you handled it with
>
> People are working _now_ on eudev as a replacement for udev until vdev is
> finished. It might even be a good replacement for udev already for the
> devuan jessie release.
[T.J. ] That's very interesting and information I did not know. You have to
admit that actual development details re
>
> I am impressed by the moral clarity and impassionate manner of the
> subscribers on this list today: You mentioned system-rescuec-d and did not
> cause a flame war.
>
> Arnt
I'd like to think that we set differences aside when some needs help.
___
> After more digging, what did the problem turn out to be?
>
>
> policykit-1. Yup, during my upgrade, I snagged policykit-1 from
> Devuan. It broke things.
>
> I apt-get remove'd policykit-1, and lookit that, my Reboot/Shutdown
> buttons are back. I didn't even have to restart XFCE.
>
>
1 - 100 of 201 matches
Mail list logo
