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> On Fri 20 March 2015 08:56:47 Go Linux wrote: > > I support this idea. Put all the systemd stuff in a 'quarantine' > > repo with the appropriate 'use at your own risk' caveats. > From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com] What would especially float my boat, once there's a truly depoetterized Devuan, is to have the package manager warn me at 160 decibles if I decide to install something that pulls in any systemd code, because if there's a way to run without systemd code, that's how I want to run, even if it means someday I can no longer use Gnumeric or Gimp. Let me give an analogy that's absolutely offtopic here, I use it only as an analogy. Three years ago, I made a policy that no KDE library or software would ever exist on any of Troubleshooters.Com computers, any computers owned by Steve Litt, or any computers owned by family members who expected me to be their IT department. For the most part, I simply never install a package beginning with "k". But once in a while I install an excellent sounding package, only to see it starting to pull in KDE Krap, have to Ctrl+C out of it, and then go back and painstakingly remove everything my install put there. My life would have been easier if the package manager told me THIS PACKAGE HAS KDE REQUIREMENTS, PROCEED N/y. In the same way, I'd like a big old warning from any package that brought in systemd code of any kind, and that *is* ontopic here. I think a very simple way is to put all packages that pull in systemd code, directly or indirectly, in a "contaminated" repository, and have that repository not enabled by default. This way, everyone gets their choice of how much or how little poetterization they want, and nobody accidentally gets a smarmy, fast talking read headed bespecticled bug in their operating system. And once again, I'd like to state the opinion that getting anything working that will long term be systemd-encumbered should be a much lower priority than depoetterizing what we can. SteveT Gentlemen, if I might add my two cents before moving onward? In the general picture of the universe, everything opensource or not is classified as "use at your own risk." To be frank, Devuan has such a small team that the reality is that everyone is depending on upstream to get the kinks out. The only software that really receives a review by Devuan is the software that Devuan patches or creates from scratch. 99% percent of the Devuan 1.0 will have little to no actual code review other than what Debian or someone else provides. That said, Devuan does not have the manpower to review, or the inclination to support systemd software in any form. There are a few exceptions in the Debian upstream that actually require systemd, but only a scant few. Kick them to the curb, and be done with it. If Devuan has any singular goal, it should be to get rid of systemd entirely because of none of the developers want to support a questionable product. That has been made clear again and again to me, even in situations where I feel it is a bit extreme. That's fair enough. The OS can live without it, but systemd cannot live without the OS. Devuan can succeed without systemd support of any kind. Trying to maintain branches of systemd-ified software is a HUGE chore. Even if you intend to provide a replacement shim, it's still going to be a QA support problem that no one is going to want to do. Systemd is someone else's problem. I think that the conversation is really losing sight of that fact. If that means that KDE, Gnome, and whatever have to be tossed out of Devuan, then so be it. Just my two cents. t.j. _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
