What is a release?

2016-03-18 Thread Hal Murray
I think I have figured out part of the disconnect on some of the recent discussion. There are two types of releases. I'll call them "big" and "little". Does anybody have suggestions for better terms? A little release is no big deal. Every two weeks would be fine. It's just a useful handle

Re: What is a release?

2016-03-19 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > I believe a generally accepted term for a lile release is "point > release". I've often heard "major release" used as its opposite. I like it. Thanks. Will anybody talking about releases please remember to add the appropriate qualifier. I expect that a major rel

Re: Bug: deadlock from msyslog

2016-03-21 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > I just ported in the Classic fix "[Bug 2814] msyslog deadlock when > signaled." I think that'll do it for this one. Is there any software that will check signal handlers to see if they call (or call anything that calls) any non-signal-safe routines? I don't know if it'

Re: Bug: deadlock from msyslog

2016-03-21 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > Check out "man 7 signal", almost nothing is legal to call from within a > signal. You can't even open() of fopen() anything. About the best you can > do is write(STDERR,) and exit(). Right. I was wondering if there was any software that would check that. For ntpd, wri

./waf install hangs on FreeBSD 10.2-RELEASE-p14/amd64

2016-03-22 Thread Hal Murray
Has anybody seen this? Or hints on how to debug it? --- installing host --- Waf: Entering directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/ted3/host' Waf: Leaving directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/ted3/host' --- installing main --- Waf: Entering directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/ted3/main' ^C doesn't w

Re: ./waf install hangs on FreeBSD 10.2-RELEASE-p14/amd64

2016-03-22 Thread Hal Murray
> No idea try running python -v -v waf and see where it hangs? Thanks. > I'm thinking it's Python itself. Me too, but I need a bit more into before I can submit a bug report. # pylib/util.pyc matches pylib/util.py import util # precompiled from pylib/util.pyc # trying pylib/rtems_trace.so

Re: Snapshots are now available.

2016-03-23 Thread Hal Murray
Nice. Thanks. v...@darkbeer.org said: > Snapshots will appear here: > https://ftp.ntpsec.org/pub/snapshots/ How long will they stay around? My vote would be something like snapshots for point releases stay around forever and snapshots for non-releases stay around for a month or two after

Re: Cross-building.

2016-03-23 Thread Hal Murray
> I will be setting up MIPS as well. Do you have any wrong-endian systems in your collection? That would be high on my list. > Eventually the binaries will be archived and shipped to real ARM and MIPS > devices to run the testsuite and make sure the binaries work. I've been running on Raspbe

Re: Cross-building.

2016-03-23 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: >> Do you have any wrong-endian systems in your collection? >> That would be high on my list. > Got some examples? I'll see what I can do. I really want to keep all of > this low-heat and low-power I may be able to find some old boards. The best suggestion I have seen

Re: Version bump.

2016-03-24 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: > devel shouldn't be at 0.9.2 still as it has already been released. This > will make the snapshots easier to understand as users are always testing the > next release not the current. 0.9.3 isn't right either. It will look like the real 0.9.3 I think we need some cons

util/monitoring/ntploop{stat,watch}

2016-03-24 Thread Hal Murray
ntploopstat starts: ;# Poll NTP server using NTP mode 7 loopinfo request. ;# Log info and timestamp to file for processing by ntploopwatch. Should we drop them, or fix ntploopstat to use mode 6? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ deve

Re: Version bump.

2016-03-24 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: >> 0.9.3 isn't right either. It will look like the real 0.9.3 > I can change it to add a revision to the version number. But there is no > other way to denote the next version all the current changes go into 0.9.3 > so it is the correct number to use. I don't see how t

Re: util/monitoring/ntploop{stat,watch}

2016-03-25 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > I don't know enough about the tool's use cases to have an informed opinion. > Who uses it, and what are they looking for? I don't know.Nobody has reported that it doesn't work so I doubt if it gets a lot of use. I don't use it. I didn't even know it existed until

Re: Version bump.

2016-03-25 Thread Hal Murray
> So, ntpd 0.9.2-afceec0+ I'd put the + right after the 2: ntpd 0.9.2+afceec0 or ntpd 0.9.2+ if you build without git. My normal mode of operation is to have a master copy on one system, rsync to other systems dropping the .git directory to save space and time, and then build there. (.git is

Re: util/monitoring/ntploop{stat,watch}

2016-03-28 Thread Hal Murray
> How much effort is it to make it use mode 6? Probably not much. I'd guess a day or so, but that's mostly coming up to speed, and is obviously a rough/wild guess. It's written in perl. I don't know anything about perl nor do I have any desire to learn. -- These are my opinions. I hate sp

Re: util/monitoring/ntploop{stat,watch}

2016-03-28 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > Sanjeev, do you know Python? Would you like to take a crack at > re-implementing loopstats in Python? Plan B would be to drop it. The first step would be to figure out what it does. Probably the best approach would be to setup an old system to run it against a

Re: Monday checkin, please.

2016-03-28 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > Chris, Hal, Eric, everyone else: what have you been hacking on, and what > ntpsec codebase puzzles are you thinking about? No code shipped recently. The ^C fix for ntpq is the top of my list, but that's lots of small changes scattered all over the place and hard

Crypto - what algorithms to use?

2016-03-28 Thread Hal Murray
The current ntpd has a simple shared key setup to make sure the client is talking to the right server. The payload is not encrypted. This is authentication, not confidentiality. It uses MD5 or SHA1. Those are getting a bit old. We should probably update things. Is there a good list of what

NTS - Network TIme Security

2016-03-29 Thread Hal Murray
There is work in progress in the IETF on authenticated NTP. As far as I can tell, getting off the ground is a really hard problem. All the classical crypto work uses time to decide if the info you have is still valid and prevent replay attacks and things like that. I think we should have a w

Re: ntpsec versions

2016-03-29 Thread Hal Murray
The date string in the version printout is the date/time it was built, not the date of the last change in git. That gives you a useful string if you have a sequence of local edits that aren't committed yet. The git hash is there if you want the git info. You can find version.c in build/main/

Re: ntpsec versions

2016-03-29 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: > Can you elaborate on this please? Are you talking about rebuilding each > version.c for the respective tool it is meant for if a file for that tool > changes? Yes, If you are relinking ntpd, waf should recompile ntpd/version.c as part of this batch. It doesn't need t

Re: Version bump.

2016-03-30 Thread Hal Murray
dtpoi...@gmail.com said: > Folks also use odd numbers for development branches and adding a dot release > for new features. I think we should seriously consider the odd-even aproach. That solves most of the ambiguity problem. It uses the bottom bit of a numeric slot to indicate firm vs fuzz

Re: Is there a roster of contributors?

2016-03-30 Thread Hal Murray
dtpoi...@gmail.com said: > I am starting up a NTPsec instance of the suite of Synopsys development > testing tools - Coverity, Defensics and Protecode. Thanks. ... > Is there any interest in this level of integration and reporting? I think we should fix any problems. I don't think we should c

Re: Crypto - what algorithms to use?

2016-03-31 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > We should live with MD5/SHA1 in shared key protocol, for now, for reasons of > compatibility, but document that we know it's not the current best practice. I think we can add support for new algorithms and leave the old stuff. Maybe add a nasty message at startup

Re: ntpsec versions

2016-03-31 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: >> Speaking of version strings, the current string doesn't include >> the time zone. > We should configure it to be TZ=0 GMT The version string comes from the compiler's __DATE__ and __TIME__ I assume that's the local time. We Amar can tell the compiler which time

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-04-08 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: > My initial tests will be via PPS signals wired to the GPIO pins on RPIs. > This will only let me test one type of refclock driver. I should be able > to find something to test audio, too. Actually, that lets you test 4 different drivers. There is the ATOM driver for

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-04-08 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: > OK that's good news at least. I haven't looked into many of the refclock > drivers. Thanks for the info. Keep in mind that many of the drivers have sub-drivers or modes. The obvious example is the parse driver which is an umbrella for several drivers. The Palisade

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-04-08 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: > I wonder how will this will work using the PPS via GPIO system I'm working > on. Should be fine and it should be far, far more reliable than serial. Why do you think it will be more reliable? It's the same idea. Changing a signal on a pin generates an interrupt whi

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-04-08 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: [Serial vs GPIO] > Because modern serial ports can suck, so do serial cables. I wouldn't trust > anything other than a high-end serial card to handle the data it's not > something that's given much thought in modern motherboards. I haven't had any troubles with serial po

Testing - leap seconds

2016-04-11 Thread Hal Murray
While you are setting up a testing environment, you might keep in mind how to test leap seconds. We will test kernels too while we are at it. There is a tangle of code that doesn't get used very often, including the GPS leap-pending area. I think the key part of automating things will be havi

Finding abusive NTP clients

2016-04-15 Thread Hal Murray
I just pushed a tweak to ntpq's mrulist command to provide more info if the average interval between requests is tiny. Anybody running a pool server might like to try it out. It now looks like this: ntpq> hostnames no ntpq> mru mincount=1000 sort=avgint Ctrl-C will stop MRU retrieval and disp

Re: Finding abusive NTP clients

2016-04-16 Thread Hal Murray
gha...@gmail.com said: > lstint avgint rstr r m v count rport remote address > == > 0 0.01 1f0 L 3 4 32250 123 27.126.220.102 > 0 0.02 1f0 L 3 4 35659 123 27.126.220.105 > 0 0.02 1f0 L 3 4 3

Re: Raspberry Pi HOWTO progress

2016-04-26 Thread Hal Murray
dtpoi...@gmail.com said: > I WANT THIS! > Warming up the credit card... My list: $39.95 Pi-3 https://www.adafruit.com/products/3055 $7.95 5V 2.4A Power supply https://www.adafruit.com/products/1995 $7.95 Pi-3 Case https://www.adafruit.com/products/2258 $19.95 MicroSD 1

Pi HOWTO

2016-04-27 Thread Hal Murray
I think there are two interesting variables: the HAT and the case. There is a 3rd minor variable of Pi-3 vs Pi-2 vs B+ I think you should write up something that works and put the rest of the options in an appendix. (or something like that) You can add a few references to the appendix at th

Re: Pi HOWTO

2016-04-27 Thread Hal Murray
> Hm. Remind me what that case us? I should out it in the draft. https://www.adafruit.com/products/2258 You should get one to play with. You have to put the Pi in first, then install the HAT. When installing the Pi, I find it easiest to use a small screwdriver from underneath to bend the hoo

Re: on the NTP security issues and fixes

2016-04-29 Thread Hal Murray
Summary here: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Main/SecurityNotice#April_2016_NTP_4_2_8p7_S ecurity -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.org http://lists.ntpsec.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
[I'm scanning old mail looking for something else.] v...@darkbeer.org said: > Does anyone here have any reference clocks they're not using? I'm looking > for different clocks to test as many of the refclock drivers as possible. What's your current collection? > I should be able to find some

Re: eport from the 20160501 F2

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
> A from-scratch proven and verified C implementation of "simple NTP broadcast > client" will be written. Lead on that project will be Daniel. Could you say a bit more? How "simple"? What does "verified" mean? What are you expecting in the way of timekeeping accuracy and/or glitch avoidance

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
v...@darkbeer.org said: >> What's your current collection? > I don't have any right now other than the various GPS chips and boards on > the way to run off of GPIO connections. You should probably get a couple of the USB "mice" or hockey puck style units. They run $25-$50 each. Most speak NM

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > The audio drivers are near the top of the list of things I'd like to remove. > I strongly suspect they're both obsolete and broken, and they're surrounded > ny a lot of poorly-documented cruft like tg.c that could stand to go. My vote would be to carry them along until w

Re: RaspbPi HOWTO

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > Accordingly, I'll be extending the breadth of the HOWTO to cover more > hardware - not just two additional HATs but the Odroid C2 as well and > probably the BeagleBone Black later. Could you please say a bit more about that area? There are a lot of small Pi-like ARM boa

Re: RaspbPi HOWTO

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
cbwie...@gmail.com said: > The GPS Hat should just work. The GPS Hat will also provide an RTC for both > the ODroid and the RPi. Is there really a RTC on a GPS HAT? Which one? The battery is to keep the RTC equivalent inside the GPS chip going. It's the difference between cold start and war

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > Please, no GPS-18s. The Garmin Binary protocol is a mess and the chip is > over 10 years old with a weak sensitivity, no GLONASS, etc. Many better GPS > LVC solutions. The GPS-18x is only 5 years old. 1/2 :) It speaks NMEA so you don't have to mess with the binary st

Re: regarding excising PLL

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > At the F2F this weekend, ESR brought up that you think we may be able to > excise the PLL code from NTPsec. > Can you expand on that, please? It's more complicated that a simple excise. My knowledge may be buggy. It's not clear that any of this makes Eric's job

Re: RaspbPi HOWTO

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
>> There are a lot of small Pi-like ARM boards. How did you pick the Odroid C2? > I heard reports that it's HAT-compatible. That makes it low-hanging fruit. Sounds like a good reason. I think I saw some comments about the Pi being flaky with a list of better boards. If I find it again I'll a

Re: Pi HOWTO

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > Given the geometry it looks like it will handle a single HAT with the lid > on, though. The Adafruit GPS HAT fits fine with the lid on. I think you can get the antenna cable out through the slot they left for a ribbon cable to hit the 40 pin GPIO connector. But I've

Re: RaspbPi HOWTO

2016-05-03 Thread Hal Murray
> Conveniently, the build doesn't require either USB or WiFi. On a Pi, the Ethernet is on USB. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.org http://lists.ntpsec.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Pi HOWTO

2016-05-04 Thread Hal Murray
> There is a case like that from GeauxRobot available through Amazon. ... Thanks. That's the one I was thinking about. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.org http://lists.ntpsec.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-04 Thread Hal Murray
> and still USB 1.1: That's unlikely to change. It's a hack that lets them use thinner cable. The signaling is slower so they don't need as much shielding to pass EMI. Compare the size of the cable on a typical USB GPS mouse with a typical real USB cable. -- These are my opinions. I hate s

Re: RaspbPi HOWTO

2016-05-04 Thread Hal Murray
bellyac...@gmail.com said: > Reply to self. Nevermind, simply apt-get install rpi-update on the Jessie > Lite image. Does anybody understand rpi-update? Why is an extra program required rather than being packaged so that the typical apt-get update+upgrade updates those files? What is the re

Re: Reference clocks.

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: >> Do you have suggestions for better "LVC" gear? > GR-801T: > http://www.navisys.com.tw/products/GPS&GNSS_%20receivers/flyer/GR-801_flyer= > -150703.pdf > Or the GR-801R has real RS-232 levels. ... Have you been able to order small quantities? I tried their order page. T

Re: TESTFRAME

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > It would certainly simplify some ugly code if we knew that kernel receive > timestamps are both standardized and actually implemented all across our > target range. There are socket options SO_TIMESTAMP, SO_TIMESTAMPNS, SO_TIMESTAMPING and SCM_ variants. They add a tim

Re: New 0.5 draft of the SemPiTernal HOWTO

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > Now I get to figure out how to install NTPsec to autostart on boot. > Curiously, though Raspbian uses systemd, the control files in the stock ntp > package are clearly System V init scripts. Er, systemd does the right thing > with those? I think so. Try "service ntp re

Re: eport from the 20160501 F2

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
dfoxfra...@gmail.com said: > >> The diag dump "nameless horror" shall be removed from NTPsec. >> What is that? I don't recognize the term. > Support for the ntpq saveconfig command. The term is a joke from the meeting > because it took five minutes before any of us could remember what it was > ca

Re: eport from the 20160501 F2

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
[Context is "simple NTP broadcast client"] > The primary target audience is IoT devices. Expect nothing impressive in > terms of timekeeping precision. I like the idea of a small/simple implementation. There are 2 parts to a ntp client. One is getting the time right. The other is calibrating

GPSD/JSON driver

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > 46GPSD NG client protocol > I suggest avoiding #46. Why? I thought the party line was that json was the preferred way to talk to gpsd. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.org ht

Re: [gpsd-dev] New 0.5 draft of the SemPiTernal HOWTO

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
fr...@nicholasfamilycentral.com said: > dhcpcd will merge DHCP supplied NTP servers at the > bottom of a ntp.conf. This has not caused me any issues (on Gentoo). NTP > generally does the right things and uses all the NTP > servers in the config & will decide the local server, with PPS is the > b

Re: New 0.5 draft of the SemPiTernal HOWTO

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > I'm not sure I understand this comment. Are you saying that a dhcpd hpook > modifies /etc/ntp.conf? Yes. If your dhcp server provides NTP servers, somebody copies /etc/ntp.conf over and appends server lines for the ones from dhcp. The startup script then passes in th

Refclock cleanup

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > I think we are mostly in agreement. Short term we need #20, long term it is > cruft. I'm not sure I'd call it "cruft", but I'll be happy to use it as a test case if/when we come up with the great refclock cleanup. > In the very long term, I'd like to see the gpsd NMEA

Re: Refclock cleanup

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > gpsd can generate a huge amout of raw logging. Seeing the subsystem you > want take hacks like this: > gpsd -nND 9 /dev/ttyS0 |& egrep '(PPS|NTP}' I don't call that stuff "logging". It's debugging cruft. By logging, I mean stuff you can feed to gnuplot. Things l

systemd

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
Another worm for the collection... When starting ntpd, sometimes you want to run a script to tweak things, like change the baud rate or enable/disable some sentences or setup /dev/pps0. In the old world, you could put code in /etc/sysconfig/ntpd and it would get run. systemd doesn't run that

Re: Raspberry Pi NTP config with fudge factors

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
> Please help me understand what's missing. There isn't a clean way to handle NMEA plus PPS. Is it one device or two? On one hand, you would like to treat them as a pair so if the NMEA says "no good", you can skip the PPS stuff. On the other hand, you would like to handle them as 2 separate d

gpsd-lite

2016-05-05 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > This seems like a non-problem to me. The people picky enough to want the > lite version are clueful enough to build it themselves. Especially/only if you provide a good recipe someplace where they are likely to find it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. _

Re: on the NTP security issues and fixes

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > But, more important things to do. Old teclo rule of thumb: fix bugs first, > then add features. Maybe fix #48. It's too late of "fix" #48. g...@rellim.com said: > Plus the socket is extensible, whereas the SHM is currently very twitchy, > any change and binaries no lo

Re: [gpsd-dev] New 0.5 draft of the SemPiTernal HOWTO

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
fr...@nicholasfamilycentral.com said: > Would refclockd be a part of NTP? If so, I’d be ok with that. I just have > no need for GPSd on a pure time server. I use "refclockd" as a tag to describe a great cleanup. I haven't seen a serious proposal so there aren't any details to discuss. Mov

Re: Raspberry Pi NTP config with fudge factors

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > It sounds like this has implications for how I should write the HOWTO > recipe. Are you saying that with refclock 20 the source can get marked as a > falseticker if it loses PPS for a while? You are missing a critical idea. The NMEA and JSON drivers can be setup to use

SHM

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
> Are we presently using the old one? Where is documentation for the new one? Do the old and new SHM schemes share the same name space? If gpsd uses old, can a ntpd using new talk to it? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing

Re: SHM

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > Works for me, the folks worried about socket jitter need convincing. I do > not think socket jitter is a problem. Who is worried about socket jitter? SHM works by polling. That's horrible delay and there is no way to correct for it. -- These are my opinions. I ha

Re: on the NTP security issues and fixes

2016-05-06 Thread Hal Murray
dfoxfra...@gmail.com said: > Mark, you're now "GO" from me for tagging a release, Please hang on a bit. Looks like reading the leap file is broken. More soon, I hope. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.o

Fixes pushed, leap files working again

2016-05-07 Thread Hal Murray
Time to restart testing. The git tag for 0.9.2 has an extra character on it. It's a right double-quote. 0.9.2” < HMS_PRE_AC_214A_AUDIO NTP_4_0_94 NTP_4_0_94b ... Amar: Does your testing include actually running the new code? If so, can we get a leap file on that system and verify th

Re: ntpd 1PPS binding considered awful

2016-05-09 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > 1. The HOWTO recipe will switch to the gpsd+ntpsd method. It's easier >for kit-builders to understand. I think that won't turn on the kernel PLL logic. This seems like a good opportunity for an experiment. What do you have in the way of a place to stand while can

Future drivers

2016-05-09 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > My intention is to officially deprecate refclocks 20 and 48 in favor of 28 > (SHM), explaining that the way 1PPS and in-band information is mingled > produces bad behavior on 1PPS dropouts. Actual deprecation will wait on > confirmation from Gary's tests. Why did you p

Re: ntpd 1PPS binding considered awful

2016-05-09 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: >> I think that won't turn on the kernel PLL logic. > That...sounds like a very good point. What *does* turn on the kernel PLL > logic? Including refclock 22 in the build and config? I know it can be set by NMEA and ATOM. Poking around, grep for kernel in docs/driver*tx

Testing ntpd and/or timing from gpsd

2016-05-10 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: >> This seems like a good opportunity for an experiment. What do you have in >> the way of a place to stand while can monitor other NTP servers? > The Pi might be it. I have it set up to monitor four pool servers with > noselect. I get output like this: Begin rant...

Re: Testing ntpd and/or timing from gpsd

2016-05-10 Thread Hal Murray
fr...@nicholasfamilycentral.com said: > These serial level converters *might* (I don’t think so, from my research) > introduce some timing delays. Those more knowledgable about electronics > might want to chime in about how a MAX232 or equivalent chip will/won’t > affect timing for PPS. The

Re: Security and standalone Stratum 1.

2016-05-11 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > Gary E. Miller : >> 5. Disallow internal system to seek NTP from other sources >> beyond your edge routers. > But now I learn that we apparently can't do that, because (according to > Gary) a Stratum 1 requires a minimum of three good chimers for the > source-selection alg

Re: Testing ntpd and/or timing from gpsd

2016-05-12 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > Easy to use, but in practice I have not found the RasPi ethernet to perform > any worse than a GigE port on a motherboard. Most of the GigE chips have the option to batch interrupts. That's good for throughput since it reduces the CPU load due to interrupts but bad for

Re: Testing ntpd and/or timing from gpsd

2016-05-12 Thread Hal Murray
> I turn off the EEE in my switches. EEE can cause me troubles. I haven't seen any problems, but maybe I haven't looked in the right place. My switches aren't smart enough to have the disable option (or any other options). -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. __

How big is time_t? Alignment?

2016-05-13 Thread Hal Murray
I was looking at the SHM layout, counting the size by hand. The goal was to add a compile time sanity check. I was off by 16 bytes. :) The first 8 were 2 time_t-s that I counted as 4 bytes each rather than 8. The other 8 were invisible padding so both of the time_t-s would be on 8 byte bou

Re: How big is time_t? Alignment?

2016-05-13 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > I recommend the following paranoia checking regarding the shm buffer: - do > not use time_t or ints directly, but cast to the "Exact width" integer types > defined in stdint.h > see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_data_types#Fixed-width_integer_types - > add an 8

Re: How big is time_t? Alignment?

2016-05-13 Thread Hal Murray
> And we can push changes to ntpsec and gpsd to use exact width integer types. I don't think so. Suppose we change time_t to int64_t. That will work on almost all systems, but breaks gpsd<=>ntpd classic on systems that are still using 32 bit time_t. > It may still make sense to do some int w

Re: Proposal for discussion - remove all Windows-port cruft

2016-05-13 Thread Hal Murray
> How much window porting cruft is there? ports/winnt and libisc/win32 They are essentially abandoned off to the side. They aren't getting in the way other than clutter and false hits if you use grep -r. The build stuff gets two hits on "Windows", both in comments and a few hits on "win32" w

Warnings from FreeBSD on Raspberry Pi

2016-05-13 Thread Hal Murray
It's interesting that none of these have showed up before. ../../libisc/netaddr.c:145:3: warning: variable 'i' is incremented both in the l oop header and in the loop body [-Wfor-loop-analysis] ../../libntp/systime.c:460:37: warning: variable 'tvlast' is uninitialized when used here [-Wuninitial

Re: I can haz Navisys GPS USB pucks, gr601w and gr701w

2016-05-14 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: > I like the PR aspect. Does NTPsec advertise itself in any way over NTP > protocol? Like a version number or something? In general, exposing version info is considered a security risk. If the ntpq stuff isn't restricted with noquery, you can get the version string with

Re: I can haz Navisys GPS USB pucks, gr601w and gr701w

2016-05-14 Thread Hal Murray
> Hmm, maybe this should say ntpsec, instead of ntpd: We decided to keep the same program names when it made sense. The version numbering is different. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ devel mailing list devel@ntpsec.org http://lists.n

Re: prep for 0.0.3 release, on 2016-05-17, at OSCON

2016-05-14 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > It is looking like its time for the next release. Baring a stop, I will tag > it 0.9.3 and release on Tuesday, 2016-05-17, during OSCON. A while ago, we had a discussion about the version number/string for releases vs working versions between releases. I don't r

Re: Proposal for discussion - remove all Windows-port cruft

2016-05-15 Thread Hal Murray
gha...@gmail.com said: > In any case, while I can imagine the client-side and monitoring code running > through the shim, how likely is it that Gary and Hal (and Dr Mills) PLL code > would survive being machine-translated to a non-POSIX kernel? There are 2 interesting parts to the kernel. The im

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
[pool limit of 100 ms] e...@thyrsus.com said: > That's weird. Why would they have a precision requirement *above* RFC5905's > "A few tens of milliseconds"? You'd think they'd want it to be below that. If you want time in the range of 10s of ms, you need to select the servers you use. With so

Re: NTP Pool (was Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up)

2016-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
cbwie...@gmail.com said: > BTW, I was getting within 5ms using generic ublox-7 puck (no PPS) on an old > laptop. USB PPS (GR-601W) was reliably under 1ms. uBlox is reasonably good. I'm seeing 25 ms peak-peak on the serial port. The MT3339 in the Adafruit GPS HAT is all over the place. Looks l

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
fr...@nicholasfamilycentral.com said: > Please see this page: > https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=141195 Thanks. I was wondering why I didn't know about that problem. > A new firmware package has been released to both rpi-update branches - > master and next. In time it wi

Re: 20160520 - Latest Pi firmware & no serial ports

2016-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
fr...@nicholasfamilycentral.com said: > I have a solution, and it's non-intuitive. The link I sent above > clearly states that "enable_uart=1" is if you want a > UART console. However, it appears that with the latest firmware, > **without** the "enable_uart=1" option, NO UARTs are > created/init

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
[I've changed some fancy single quotes to my normal ascii single quote. Searching for copied text may not workright.] I think it needs an introductory paragraph with a date-stamp explaining that the PI-3 is new and still under active development and don't be surprised if/when things break. >

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-21 Thread Hal Murray
> Why GPSD? > If you are already familar with ntpd and wonder why this recipe uses gpsd > through SHM rather than ntpd's native refclock 20 GPS driver, the > answer is this: when refclock 20 is configured to use 1PPS, it mixes in-band > time data with 1PPS in a way that causes it to behave badly,

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-21 Thread Hal Murray
e...@thyrsus.com said: > I didn't have any particular accuracy goal in mind. It just seemed odd to > pick a threshold that would make pool sources unlikelly to vonistently meet > the RFC 5905 target. I think you are misreading the RF C. I can't find any place that uses the word "target". Her

Re: Draft Stratum 1 Microserver HOWTO is up

2016-05-21 Thread Hal Murray
Big picture, only half thought out... Please consider breaking this into several modular chunks. The idea is that the chunks might be useful on their own and/or referenced by other HOWTOs. The examples that come to mind are setting up a similar system to use a GR-701W and how to find the IP A

HOWTO - using other servers

2016-05-22 Thread Hal Murray
> I understand you, and I want us to be good citizens, but reality seems to be > backing us into a corner here. Gary has strongly advised against using > general pool servers. His reasons seem cogent, especially if our Pis are > going to be used, as intended, to *feed* the pool. We don't want our

PPS over USB

2016-05-23 Thread Hal Murray
g...@rellim.com said: >> PPS over USB will be more accurate with a fudge factor. > Gack, no. The USB delay is much less than the sample interval on the USB > 1.1 bus. I don't understand what you are trying to say. PPS over USB will be off on average of 1/2 the polling interval. It's easy to

Re: PPS over USB

2016-05-23 Thread Hal Murray
dan-...@drown.org said: > Here's 7 days worth of data: > https://dan.drown.org/rpi/usb-vs-gpio-pps.html Interesting graphs. Thanks. What sort of setup were you using? I assume the HAT graph was using data from a system using the HAT to set the time. Was the USB graph using the USB-PPS for

We need a release checklist

2016-05-23 Thread Hal Murray
fallenpega...@gmail.com said: > There should be a tag in gitlab. If there is not, it is my mistake, and I > will fix it this evening. ..m k...@roeckx.be said: > There are also no releases on ftp://ftp.ntpsec.org/pub/releases/, 0.9.1 is > the latest. I'll make a file if people feed me ideas.

Monitoring NTP servers

2016-05-23 Thread Hal Murray
cbwie...@gmail.com said: > One thing I'm trying to develop is a method to track multiple system > simultaneously. I'm thinking of a monitor system with its own time base > using NTP to query state from each of the test systems. > I may write the first version in Python wrapping ntpdig. You obv

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