To me, computer go programming means basic research for now, as I don't
believe the existing algorithms get you very far (I may be too
ambitious, but I cant help it..).
Thus, I would program in a way that let's me explore everything very
fast, without caring too much about performance. This is w
Give me a program that beats a dan level taking less
than a week to process.
I will code it in assembler if necesary to make it
efficient for a competition. (parallel if necesary)
The first part difficult.
The second one is just engineering.
20 minutes or 20 hours is the same in this problem.
h
Sylvain Gelly wrote:
You are totally right. For Yizao (one of the author of MoGo), who is a
good Go player, this gives a bad "style" to MoGo. As I don't know how to
play Go (beyond the rules :)), I don't see any style and I don't care :).
I forwarded this to other people in the computer-chess com
> Give me a program that beats a dan level taking less
> than a week to process.
>
> I will code it in assembler if necesary to make it
> efficient for a competition. (parallel if necesary)
>
> The first part difficult.
> The second one is just engineering.
>
> 20 minutes or 20 hours is the same
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 15:10 +0100, Chrilly wrote:
> Sylvain Gelly wrote:
> You are totally right. For Yizao (one of the author of MoGo), who is a
> good Go player, this gives a bad "style" to MoGo. As I don't know how to
> play Go (beyond the rules :)), I don't see any style and I don't care :).
>
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 06:11 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> > Give me a program that beats a dan level taking less
> > than a week to process.
I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at 9x9 if 1 week of
thinking time per move could be compressed enough to play a 30 minute
game.
- Don
>
> I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at
> 9x9 if 1 week of
> thinking time per move could be compressed enough to
> play a 30 minute
> game.
If you think so, go and try it! Its quite important to
know that.
You can play a game with some dan level at
http://itsyourturn.com/
__
> I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at
> 9x9 if 1 week of
> thinking time per move could be compressed enough to
> play a 30 minute
> game.
you could always get a dan player to volunteer for
such a game. he would promise not to spend more
than 1/2 hour on the game, and mogo would
I'm not sure sometimes if a person's arguement is for the truth or just
politics. I'm going to assume that it's for the truth. Feng Hsu may not know
much about chess, but he enlisted the help of one who does. His name is
Schaffer if I remeber correctly. He was decribed as a competitive chess pla
The results are at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/21/index.html.
Congratulations to AyaBot, and to SimpleBot!
Nick
--
Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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computer-go@computer-go.org
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On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 09:51 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> > I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at
> > 9x9 if 1 week of
> > thinking time per move could be compressed enough to
> > play a 30 minute
> > game.
>
> you could always get a dan player to volunteer for
> such a game. he wo
I'm not sure sometimes if a person's arguement is for the truth or just
politics. I'm going to assume that it's for the truth. Feng Hsu may not know
much about chess, but he enlisted the help of one who does. His name is
Schaffer if I remeber correctly. He was decribed as a competitive chess
pl
> The results are at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/21/index.html.
> Congratulations to AyaBot, and to SimpleBot!
Hello Nick,
thank you for the tournaments and the report.
I can answer for the behavior of MoGoBot19 on the open tournament. Yes it is
the same program as MoGoBot, running in a
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 13:57 -0500, Don Dailey wrote:
> In fact, in honor of Chrilly's laws I will call this "Don's law".
> "What really counts is how bad your bad moves are."
By the way, this principle is true in just about every aspect of life.
A few years ago I lived in Florida and played tenni
> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 09:51 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> > > I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at
> > > 9x9 if 1 week of
> > > thinking time per move could be compressed enough to
> > > play a 30 minute
> > > game.
> >
> > you could always get a dan player to volunteer for
> > suc
Sorry to be such a pest about the web site status, but the "finished"
link for December is wrong (see
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/future.html). A lesser cosmetic thing is
that next year is listed as 2006 again. While my participation in
January's tournament probably affects the timing very littl
On 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mogo would also have a memory problem. The UCT programs build trees in
> memory. My own program cannot think more than a few minutes without
> running out of memory - so even the experiment you propose cannot be
> done.
Yes you are r
Hello,
> I'd be a bit more careful about the comparison with alpha-beta in
> section 2.3. I believe that iterative deepening of alpha-beta is very
> common. It can be argued that when iterative deepening is used, an
> early termination isn't very detrimental. [...]
> Alpha-Beta is for practical
Le Mardi 5 Décembre 2006 20:50, John Tromp a écrit :
> On 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Mogo would also have a memory problem. The UCT programs build trees
> > > in memory. My own program cannot think more than a few minutes
> > > without running out of memory - so
not to be overly critical here, but...
> Mogo would also have a memory problem.
then the proposed gendankenexperiment (if it could
run for a week in only a few minutes' time) doesn't
even make sense -- if it couldn't make use of all
of the extra time (compressed or otherwise), then
it can't make
On 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How long would it take Mogo to fill up 16GB of memory on a quad core
> opteron machine?
It depends on the speed of your opteron :). Perhaps something like 10
minutes.
I think stl vector implementation on my linux box takes much more me
On 12/5/06, House, Jason J. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry to be such a pest about the web site status, but the "finished"
link for December is wrong (see
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/future.html).
While we are at it, I suggest you remove the copy of kgsgtp.xhtml from
your webpages. It's wors
> > I'd be a bit more careful about the comparison with alpha-beta in
> > section 2.3. I believe that iterative deepening of alpha-beta is
very
> > common. It can be argued that when iterative deepening is used, an
> > early termination isn't very detrimental. [...]
> > Alpha-Beta is for practic
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 20:40 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 09:51 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> > > > I'll bet Mogo would give a dan level player fits at
> > > > 9x9 if 1 week of
> > > > thinking time per move could be compressed enough to
> > > > play a 30 minute
> > > >
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 12:09 -0800, steve uurtamo wrote:
> an i think that if you were to perform these
> experiments one at a time (i.e. give yourself
> 10x more time, and see if you can beat an 6kyu,
> then 100x more time and see if you can beat a 4kyu,
> etc.), many of which are reasonable (we al
Jason:
Thank you for pointing out these errors. I have fixed them now.
Sylvain:
Thank you for your explanation of MoGoBot19's play. I have added it to
the page.
I keep promising to hold a "slow" tournament soon, with 12 hours each
for each game. I would propose next week, with games on 1
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 21:15 +0100, John Tromp wrote:
> On 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > How long would it take Mogo to fill up 16GB of memory on a
> quad core
> > opteron machine?
>
> It depends on the speed of your op
Nick,
I would love to see such a tournament, but the UCT programs could not
take full advantage of the extra time. As you see, we run out of
memory after a minute or two!
- Don
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 20:48 +, Nick Wedd wrote:
> Jason:
> Thank you for pointing out these errors. I have fi
Sylvain,
You can extend this pretty easily by doing 2 or more simulations at a
time.
The trade-off is very good for doing this although not 100%.I HAVE
to do this for Lazarus because I have very little memory in my machine.
I believe I'm doing 8 simulations at a time in order to use about 1
In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Arend
Bayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
On 12/5/06, House, Jason J. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry to be such a pest about the web site status, but the "finished"
link for December is wrong (see
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/future.html).
While we are at it, I
Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but if I understand correctly, MoGo
primarily gets its strength in 9x9 go by improving upon the random
simulations by preferring "good" moves over purely random moves during
the random game. Yet I have two results that seem to indicate that it's
not really that sim
Hi,
>Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but if I understand correctly, MoGo
>primarily gets its strength in 9x9 go by improving upon the random
>simulations by preferring "good" moves over purely random moves during
>the random game. Yet I have two results that seem to indicate that it's
>not reall
Le Mardi 5 Décembre 2006 22:03, Don Dailey a écrit :
> Sylvain,
>
> You can extend this pretty easily by doing 2 or more simulations at a
> time.
>
> The trade-off is very good for doing this although not 100%.I HAVE
> to do this for Lazarus because I have very little memory in my machine.
> I
But as a chess programmer, I disagree with your statement about orders
of magnitude. If your chess program is 30% faster than mine, all else
being equal, you have a measurably stronger chess program and you will
probably win even a fairly short match. In a highly competitive chess
tourname
> > So that I can follow this discussion, how would be the "kgs level" of
> > this player (it is the only level I have access to when looking at the
> > results of game)?
>
> Wouldn't it be 1 dan on KGS?
I don't know because some seem to say that the KGS level is not the "true"
level? If so, MoGo
Hello,
> Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but if I understand correctly, MoGo
> primarily gets its strength in 9x9 go by improving upon the random
> simulations by preferring "good" moves over purely random moves during
> the random game.
It is not exactly that. The claim is that the improvement com
On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 00:04 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > So that I can follow this discussion, how would be the "kgs level" of
> > > this player (it is the only level I have access to when looking at the
> > > results of game)?
> >
> > Wouldn't it be 1 dan on KGS?
> I don't know because so
Le Mardi 5 Décembre 2006 21:55, Don Dailey a écrit :
> Nick,
>
> I would love to see such a tournament, but the UCT programs could not
> take full advantage of the extra time. As you see, we run out of
> memory after a minute or two!
At least we have to make changes to remove from memory a lot
Le Mardi 5 Décembre 2006 21:15, John Tromp a écrit :
> On 12/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > How long would it take Mogo to fill up 16GB of memory on a quad core
> > > opteron machine?
> >
> > It depends on the speed of your opteron :). Perhaps something like 10
> > minutes
hi Sylvain,
This could be very interesting!
If by anyway I can have an user account on this machine, I can try to
compile
MoGo and launch it on KGS so that you can easily play, and everyone can
watch
the games.
What do you think?
The machine is a central component of the Linux supercomputer
> I think stl vector implementation on my linux box takes much more memory than
> necessary (I mean using a memory pool, and a big time against memory
> tradeoff), so perhaps being carefull, with 16 GB we could reach 20 minutes.
The STL vector is fairly efficient, especially if you are using
res
On Tue December 5 2006 13:31, Don Dailey wrote:
> On CGOS, gnugu_3.7.4 is rated 1720. MoGo is is in the 2100-2200,
> presumably it's save to assume it is significantly stronger.
>
> But if we can assign an ELO rating to Gnugo 3.7.4, then we can add 300
> or 400 to get Mogo's current ELO rating.
> The machine is a central component of the Linux supercomputer cluster at
> CWI,
> where I used to work. Access is limited to CWI users I'm afraid:-(
Ok I understand.
> Can you compile it on any other Linux machine with an up to date gcc -O3
> -static -m64 ?
I will try and send it to you. We'll
Le mercredi 6 décembre 2006 00:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> > > So that I can follow this discussion, how would be the "kgs level" of
> > > this player (it is the only level I have access to when looking at the
> > > results of game)?
> >
> > Wouldn't it be 1 dan on KGS?
> I don't know because
2006/12/5, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I speak from experience. I know exactly how these things work. The
match would begin, the human would probably be outplaying the computer
and then make some error. The computer would win and everyone would
cry it shouldn't have happened.The com
Hi John,
Why can't you just play it live on KGS? This is much more exciting.
We would have no way to know if you were taking back moves or anything.
(Although I believe you to be an honest person I still like to see for
myself :-)
- Don
On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 00:37 +0100, John Tromp wrote:
>
On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 02:24 +0100, Andrés Domínguez wrote:
> 2006/12/5, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > I speak from experience. I know exactly how these things work. The
> > match would begin, the human would probably be outplaying the computer
> > and then make some error. The comput
hi Don,
Why can't you just play it live on KGS? This is much more exciting.
We would have no way to know if you were taking back moves or anything.
(Although I believe you to be an honest person I still like to see for
myself :-)
If Sylvain provides me with a Mogo version that can connect t
This is an echo of my experience with SlugGo, and SlugGo has no MC
component. This is just part of trying to program Go, whatever the
algorithm.
Cheers,
David
On 5, Dec 2006, at 1:32 PM, Richard Lorentz wrote:
confusing to me is that we've tried some simple improvements to the
random
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