Hello Ronan,
> By the way, if someone has an idea about a sample application (simple,
> but not trivial) which could lead the tutorial, and show different
> aspects of the language, let me know !
> I was thinking about a more complete and idiomatic version of Vincent
> Foley's "Fetching web comic
Yes, or CodeMirror (maybe more lightweight ?)
2010/3/26 Mark Derricutt :
> I was thinking it might be interesting to see if we could integrate Bespin
> Embedded in labrepl, having a nice web based syntax highlighting editor
> thats consistent on platforms could be quite cool.
> --
> Pull me down u
I was thinking it might be interesting to see if we could integrate Bespin
Embedded in labrepl, having a nice web based syntax highlighting editor
thats consistent on platforms could be quite cool.
--
Pull me down under...
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Stuart Halloway
wrote:
> You also get t
Clojure can be used in so many different ways. I can't think of any
other language where I have so many varied "integration options". The
flexibility is confusing and frustrating, but I much prefer its
presence than absence. :) I'm glad I stuck with it.
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On 23 Mar 2010, at 19:53, Lee Spector wrote:
I'm intrigued by what I've read here about labrepl, but can someone
tell me if it's possible that the lein installation step will mess
up my existing setup in any way?
I don't think so. Unless you have an existing script called "lein" on
your m
I'm starring that post. Still haven't gotten Aquamacs working with
clojure. will try yet again tonight.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Carson wrote:
> I second Lee's thought -- my "work" as a grad student is AI research,
> not application development. I'm glad I discovered Incanter's packag
I second Lee's thought -- my "work" as a grad student is AI research,
not application development. I'm glad I discovered Incanter's package
(three lines of instructions [1]) that allows me to run a Swank server
that I can easily connect to from Emacs (and Slime from the Emacs end
can be easily ins
On 23 March 2010 23:11, Brian Hurt wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:07 AM, cageface wrote:
>
>> So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
>> tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
>> file that will find at least the core clojure ja
Labrepl (via leiningen) puts jars in a local lib directory. They
shouldn't collide with to break anything else.
Stu
Lein is a command line tool that you can use independently of your
environment. 99.9% sure you won't break anything by installing it.
Is this right Phil?
Sean
On Mar 23, 2:5
Lein is a command line tool that you can use independently of your
environment. 99.9% sure you won't break anything by installing it.
Is this right Phil?
Sean
On Mar 23, 2:53 pm, Lee Spector wrote:
> I like where this is going but I would suggest that there's a significant
> audience (includi
I like where this is going but I would suggest that there's a significant
audience (including me and most of my students) in what we might call category
A.01: Want to explore and even do some real work, but not necessarily work
involving deploying apps, connecting to databases, working with thi
On Mar 23, 11:09 am, Michael Kohl wrote:
> http://github.com/citizen428/ClojureX/archives/1.1.0
>
> Sorry, really not trying to pitch my project here, but the archive
> above basically contains what you are asking for.
Cool. Maybe we could link this and/or Stuart's labrepl from the
getting starte
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM, cageface wrote:
> So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
> tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
> file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own?
http://github.com/citizen428/Clo
I think it is important to be clear about the difference between:
(A) exploring Clojure (non trivially, including interesting Java
libraries)
(B) deploying Clojure into production.
I nominate the labrepl (http://github.com/relevance/labrepl) as a
solution for (A). It already includes inter
You also get this with the labrepl (http://github.com/relevance/
labrepl) which is free. Plus I am attempting (with a little help from
you all) to keep the labrepl working with various IDEs.
Stu
Stuart's book is by all accounts excellent, but I'm not sure we want
to be in the situation that
Stuart's book is by all accounts excellent, but I'm not sure we want
to be in the situation that Ruby once was in, where buying a book
(PragProg's Pickaxe book) was virtually a prerequisite for getting
started.
-Per
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Brian Hurt wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 a
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:07 AM, cageface wrote:
> So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
> tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
> file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own? I
> don't see how you're going
So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own? I
don't see how you're going to actually deploy any clojure apps, or
connect to a databas
On Mar 22, 9:40 pm, Michael Richter wrote:
> On 23 March 2010 00:13, Luc Préfontaine wrote:
>
> > I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
> > Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
> > Are these videos listed on the "Getting started" page ?
I think that he made a good point, despite his rantings.
As an experienced java developer, these are the steps I took while
setting my environment up and running.
- downloaded the jar, launched java -jar clojure.jar. I was able to
fiddle with the repl, but when it came to code something dependent
Maybe it'd be helpful to draw up several of the most common use-cases
and target those with instructions. There are programmers new to some
combination of Lisp/Clojure/Java either wanting to just get a taste of
Clojure, or wanting to get a IDE/text editor (of their choosing) going
to program in Cl
On 23 March 2010 00:13, Luc Préfontaine wrote:
> I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
> Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
> Are these videos listed on the "Getting started" page ?
>
Let's see if I can get this across without profan
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:03 AM, cageface wrote:
> Perhaps it would be useful to at least included a ready-to-go clj
> shell/batch script in the default distribution?
Thanks to some awesome work by contributors, I think the one in
ClojureX became fairly good over time:
http://github.com/citizen
On 23 Mar 2010, at 02:31, Lee Spector wrote:
Someone else mentioned that maybe part of the problem is that there
are several different "simple" ways to get started, and this may
have been part of my own problem.
What we have currently is lots of individuals who have figured out a
good sol
I agree with Sean on the near-orthogonality of sysadmin skills and the skills
needed to get a lot of Clojure as a language. I have precious few of the former
but not of the latter. And just today I had a very capable undergrad student
with programming experience in a couple of languages (but
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:03 PM, cageface wrote:
>
> On the other hand, if you go to the "getting started" pages of Jruby,
> Groovy they're actually far more daunting (IMO) than Clojure's:
> http://groovy.codehaus.org/Tutorial+1+-+Getting+started
> http://kenai.com/projects/jruby/pages/GettingStar
On Mar 22, 1:10 am, Luc Préfontaine
wrote:
> An IDE becomes a necessity as the complexity of your software is
> increasing.
>
> Now what's a complex piece of software ?
>
> Presently we have 12 components in production some being several
> thousand lines covering three languages (Java, Ruby and Cl
On Mar 22, 2:48 pm, Sean Devlin wrote:
> There are a ton of people who are ready for dabbling with Clojure but
> aren't ready for production systems. You'd be surprised how linearly
> independent system administration skills and software development
> skills really are. They aren't quite orthogo
There are a ton of people who are ready for dabbling with Clojure but
aren't ready for production systems. You'd be surprised how linearly
independent system administration skills and software development
skills really are. They aren't quite orthogonal, but it's amazingly
close.
On Mar 22, 5:36
I'll certainly agree that it should be as easy as possible to get
started in Clojure, but I really don't think that the kind of people
that can't use anything without a windows installer are going to get
very far with Clojure in any case.
I mean, if it's too much to install java, unzip a file and
On Mar 22, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Luc Préfontaine wrote:
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these videos listed on the "Getting started" page ?
They are now:
http://clojure.org/getting_started
Hmm... maybe something like this?
http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/
Or this?
http://www.openoffice.org/
Sean
On Mar 22, 12:39 pm, Lee Spector wrote:
> Yes, yes and yes: The videos are great, and all of the information is out
> there, but it was hard for me to find as I first waded in. And
Yes, yes and yes: The videos are great, and all of the information is out
there, but it was hard for me to find as I first waded in. And getting contrib
to work was one of my first problems. BTW I'd also like to reinforce that
although full IDEs aren't necessary to begin -- and besides they're
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these videos listed on the "Getting started" page ?
What about using contrib ? That would be the first "classpath" problem a
newcomer would face.
It looks to
I have to say that while I'm sorry that we didn't snag the original
poster
as a Clojure user, he has actually done us a real favor. The most
important
customer is the pissed off customer who tells you why he is pissed
off. You
don't have to take everything he says to heart, but it is always worth
l
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:26 AM, cej38 wrote:
> I am a physicist by training and practice, this means that I am an
> expert on Fortran 95. To say my exposure to Java is minimal would be
> generous. And until last year when I heard about Clojure from a
> friend, I thought LISP was a speech imped
think about the difference between putting flash or python on a machine
compared to clojure. there's more of a system-level "path" feel to those
things (even though each user can have their own environment). I mean, you
can add a clj script to your path and get the same effect, but that's what's
FWIW Michael it was your ClojureX was what got me going best in the beginning,
but on Mac OS X, not Windows. Getting a minimal clojure-aware editing setup was
a little harder -- the emacs-setup stuff you had in an earlier version of
ClojureX got me started there too, but I had to do some other
Luc,
Windows users should be good to go. Clojurebox, Enclojure & CCW are
ready for use for any Java dev with some experience. As for the
installation process, pick you poison:
http://vimeo.com/tag:install_clojure
Sorry to self-post,
Sean
On Mar 22, 7:31 am, Luc Préfontaine
wrote:
> Is my firs
> In my opinion, atleast in the GNU/Linux world, it should be left to
> distributors to do this job. On Debian for instance, one just need to
> do `apt-get install clojure clojure-contrib' to get clojure installed.
It's equally simple on the Mac with Homebrew [1]:
$ brew install clojure clojure-c
On Mon 22/03/10 11:31 , "LucPréfontaine" lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca sent:
> Is my first impression right or wrong ?
> Is Clojure harder to setup from Windows for beginners ?
> Would an installer (.msi) help by hiding Java related details and
> providing some basic scripts to run it ?
I think the
> I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on all
> supported platforms.
I also agree. The best setup experience I've had so far is using
NetBeans with the Enclojure plugin.
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Note that I didn't propose an installer except for OS X and Windows.
Only a DWIM shell script.
-Per
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan
wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Per Vognsen wrote:
>> good example of a Java developer-oriented application with a good
>> ou
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Per Vognsen wrote:
> good example of a Java developer-oriented application with a good
> out-of-box experience on all platforms. Shell scripts for UNIX and
> installers for Windows and OS X would go a long way towards improving
> that for Clojure.
In my opinion, a
Don't twist my post away from it's purpose...
I am not making an IDE a pre-requisite for learning purposes.
The original poster was talking about getting Clojure usable by
corporations... he was not talking about
academic learning. Too bad he was not aware that there are other IDEs
available othe
I'd agree with that, I've setup Clojure on Linux, Mac and Windows and I found
Windows the most difficult. Granted, I virtually never use Windows, but it
felt like I was fighting it by being at the command line, but had no choice but
to be there.
On 22 Mar 2010, at 11:31, Luc Préfontaine wrote:
I use OS X and had only minor trouble getting Clojure to run the first
time. But even minor trouble still has a disproportionate effect on
someone's first impression. The out-of-box experience matters for
everything and programming languages are no exception. Eclipse is a
good example of a Java dev
Haven't tried setting it up on windows, but an msi that hid the java
details would be a nice plus, provided hat the abstraction never
leaked (i.e. that you could do all the basic clojure operations
without having to stop and edit or bypass the scripts).
martin
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Luc
Is my first impression right or wrong ?
Is Clojure harder to setup from Windows for beginners ?
Would an installer (.msi) help by hiding Java related details and
providing some basic scripts to run it ?
Luc P.
On Mon, 2010-03-22 at 16:48 +0530, Martin DeMello wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Joel Westerberg
wrote:
>
> Every time I've started up with a clojure project I've had to spend a few
> hours fiddling with the environment, not that I don't do that with other
> languages, but it would be nice with an officially sanctioned solution for
> setting up
On 2010 Mar 21, at 11:52 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Luc Préfontaine > wrote:
Yes we could have a complete package to run Clojure from the shell
command line but how far could someone go with this
to build a workable system without an IDE ?
[...]
Comments any
To add the perspective of a true newbie to this dogpile, I'm going to have
to say that the OP was just plain wrong. He made a major mistake -- wanting
to compile clojure for himself on a platform that's not exactly friendly to
Java development in the first place (Slackware, not Linux in general) -
This is definitely flamebait. However, he has a point. Perhaps we
should make it clear on the Getting Started page that deploying Java
is a prerequisite to deploying Clojure, and include links to resources
on how to do that for the platform you are on. It's presently unclear
to anyone without a
I love clojure but I think it's unnecessary it doesn't ship with a simple
clj and a clj.bat script out of the box, yeah it's easy to run it with jvm,
but who want to type
java -server -Djava.ext.dirs=./lib:/opt/bin/lib -cp
~/.emacs.d/lisp-packages/swank-clojure jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.lang.Rep
I'm happy that this guy self eliminated himself from clojure
community. But experience tells me not to be so sure. His kind tends
to come back and unfortunately is very persistent.
If downloading couple of jar files and dropping them into the
classpath is too much for him, then he is definitelly
Tim Johnson wrote:
I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time.
[snip]
I agree that Tim was a bit over-reacting;
Hello all,
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Tim Johnson wrote:
> I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
> professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
> that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time.
>
An IDE becomes a necessity as the complexity of your software is
increasing.
Now what's a complex piece of software ?
Presently we have 12 components in production some being several
thousand lines covering three languages (Java, Ruby and Clojure).
4 others components are in progress. Add to this
I am a physicist by training and practice, this means that I am an
expert on Fortran 95. To say my exposure to Java is minimal would be
generous. And until last year when I heard about Clojure from a
friend, I thought LISP was a speech impediment.
Setting up Clojure was a MAJOR problem for me, w
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Luc Préfontaine <
lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> wrote:
>
> Yes we could have a complete package to run Clojure from the shell command
> line but how far could someone go with this
> to build a workable system without an IDE ?
>
[...]
> Comments anyone ?
>
>
I ca
He's illiterate about Java, he's older than me and has less experience
so finding how to run a jar file is probably
as remote as traveling to Alpha Centauri :))) (Don't we have something
like Google to find these answers ?)
Most of his recent experience seems to be in Visual Basic and mainstream
I hate to feed trolls, but this is a solid example of passive-
aggresive behavior. Also, ignoring plausible sounding, spell-checked
diatribes is bad.
The installation of one or two jar files from a Maven repository is
par for the JVM course. Deployment? Works on any reasonable JVM out
there. Could
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Mike K wrote:
> > I would appreciate any feedback.
>
> According to the readme it requires bash or zsh. Any plans to support
> windows (without cygwin or other unix emulation)?
>
> I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on all
> supported
On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Mark Derricutt wrote:
Thanks for the pointer to MCLIDE! That looks really nice! Any
idea if a 64bit build is in the works? For some reason I feel
dirty about having to install Rosetta :)
MCLIDE 2.0 will have that cutting edge you're craving for and
definitel
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Antony Blakey wrote:
>
> On 22/03/2010, at 9:28 AM, e wrote:
>
> > And don't get me started on trying to get emacs or vi all hooked up on my
> mac. I've never succeeded.
>
> I'm about to use Clojure commercially, but it's been a frustrating exercise
> getting setu
To be successful however Clojure needs to adopt 'mainstream' values
- introduce just one 'different' thing i.e. the language, rather
than expecting people to adopt both the language, and a different
development environment / toolchain e.g. leiningen etc (which IMO is
classic NIH).
I think
On 22/03/2010, at 9:28 AM, e wrote:
> And don't get me started on trying to get emacs or vi all hooked up on my
> mac. I've never succeeded.
I'm about to use Clojure commercially, but it's been a frustrating exercise
getting setup. I've ended up using LaClojure on IntelliJ, but that wasn't
t
> I would appreciate any feedback.
According to the readme it requires bash or zsh. Any plans to support
windows (without cygwin or other unix emulation)?
I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on all
supported platforms.
Mike
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On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:42:12 -0800
Tim Johnson wrote:
> Here's how I installed the flash player on my system.
> 1)Downloaded install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz
> 2)Unzipped libflashplayer.so
> 3)Copied to /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.2/plugins/
Here's how I installed the Clojure REPL on my system.
1)
there's a positive reason to say all that stuff as if to say, " and it's not
that I'm a slouch. I have been able to succeed with other technology."
I've personally had tons of trouble getting going with clojure, and I use
java all the time. I think the ideas in clojure are awesome, and I like th
Thanks for the pointer to MCLIDE! That looks really nice! Any idea if a
64bit build is in the works? For some reason I feel dirty about having to
install Rosetta :)
--
Pull me down under...
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Lee Spector wrote:
> I'm sure that this can and will be overcome, in
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Stuart Sierra
wrote:
> I agree that the Clojure first-run experience is too rough. Both
> Scala and JRuby, for example, are complete packages that you can
> download, unzip, install, and run -- on any platform -- without
> knowing anything about Java.
>
> Clojure
It certainly does seem strange coming from the Java world, where ear
files and deployment descriptors can be intimidating. The idea that
adding a couple jar files and the source tree to
the classpath is 'too hard' makes me wonder what language he was
coming from.
I was asked to give a simple 'hand
I have some sympathy with some of what Tim wrote, although I think that I'll be
working in and enjoying Clojure for some time to come (really -- I'm finding it
to be fantastic in many ways -- including the community). I'm not sure I agree
with or even understand all of Tim's complaints, but as
I agree that the Clojure first-run experience is too rough. Both
Scala and JRuby, for example, are complete packages that you can
download, unzip, install, and run -- on any platform -- without
knowing anything about Java.
Clojure needs to provide the same experience, even if it only matters
for
What a strange reason to dismiss Clojure. And also strange to refuse
any further input.
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But if he had never been in the Java mindset it wouldn't be obvious to
him that
there is nothing to be gained by compiling your own java code.
Platform independence,
bytecode etc means that a jar file of the stable build is the optimum
solution. That is so
obvious to us we forget that its a revolut
Yeah,
too bad he removed his entry, 'cause as you said, installing clojure
isn't harder than installing anything java based. I don't know of a
sysadmin nowadays which had not to deal with java stuff in a way or
another ? And ant is around the place *for years*. So more input from
him may have help
Reading his post I got the impression he was a bit of an egocentric (a
bit more information about himself than was relevant), those sorts
tend to overreact.
However I can imagine the whole just bung the jar file on your
classpath thing wouldn't make much sense for a java newbie. It may
highlight
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Fogus wrote:
> > 1)As soon as I see the copy of this email in my "clojure mailbox", I will
> > unsubscribe from this mailing list, delete the clojure mailbox and I will
> not
> > be following up in any way.
>
> Really? This is not c.l.l and it's not likely that t
> 1)As soon as I see the copy of this email in my "clojure mailbox", I will
> unsubscribe from this mailing list, delete the clojure mailbox and I will not
> be following up in any way.
Really? This is not c.l.l and it's not likely that this thread would
have devolved into flaming or worse. It's
I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time.
Before any of you think that I am a disgruntled newbie turned troll, kn
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