Don't twist my post away from it's purpose... I am not making an IDE a pre-requisite for learning purposes.
The original poster was talking about getting Clojure usable by corporations... he was not talking about academic learning. Too bad he was not aware that there are other IDEs available other than the M..ft thing. Not even looking at the documented alternatives before saying anything is unprofessional at best in this regard. You can still code 30000 lines+ systems without an IDE (IDE can be as simple as VIM or this other popular text editor on MacOSX) but this approach has definitively limits. Just in case you have doubts I did a lot of these in the past before even VIM like editors became the norm. I would not revert back to these times. If some are saying they can do a lot without an IDE, fine, but that's pointless here, it seems that the main problem is the first contact with Clojure. It looks like it's rough and there's a need for some smoothness there. The main goal being to hide the Java gears as much as possible. This is the feedback I was trying to get. If .NET gears where not hidden on first contact, it would appear has bad as the JVM. With .NET, it's later in the learning process that this strikes you :)) At first it looks great (all these windows, ....). I was asking for some requirements... can we start here ? a) A need for a Windows based installer b) Startup scripts to hide java machinery, probably pre-tuned to hide all these horrible Java flags c) Update mode to keep the Clojure run time up to date with whatever version you may want (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, nightly build, ...) d) a) and c) Use available public repositories to get components. e) A need for installers on other platforms ? U*X, MacOs X ? Any value there ? Starting Clojure from command line on Windows is this satisfactory for everyone ? Maybe a helper to start CMD in a folder from a context menu would be of some help ? Anything else ? Luc P. On Mon, 2010-03-22 at 00:33 -0400, Douglas Philips wrote: > On 2010 Mar 21, at 11:52 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Luc Préfontaine > > <lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca > > > wrote: > > Yes we could have a complete package to run Clojure from the shell > > command line but how far could someone go with this > > to build a workable system without an IDE ? > > > > [...] > > > > Comments anyone ? > > > > > > I can get pretty far writing an application in Python with nothing > > more than good command line support and syntax highlighting in any > > text editor. Anything extra like completions, refactoring, etc, are > > just nice-to-haves. I don't see why an IDE is required for writing > > workable Clojure apps. > > +1 > > I use a Mac with MacPorts. Pulled down clojure and clojure-contrib > ports. > Only thing I had to do (and this was -not- easy to figure out), was > create a .clojure file that pointed > to the contrib jar. But that is how the clj wrapper in the clojure > port works. I suppose I could also > muck around with my class path, or do other things... > > There is a high Java tax on using clojure for those of us coming from > non-Java languages. > I'm willing to accept that I need to read the Java docs on how > strings, or, whatever, work. > > But getting clojure itself set up? Please, do -not- make "pre-existing > familiarity with an IDE" a prerequisite. There are enough learning > curves as it is. > > -Doug > > P.S. I used Emacs back when Gosling was writing his version of it at > CMU, before Java even existed, and now I use (g)vim. It's nice that > there are other IDEs working with clojure, but not so nice to assume > non-Java users are using some VisualStudio or other heavy-weight IDE. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE ME" as the subject.
