think about the difference between putting flash or python on a machine compared to clojure. there's more of a system-level "path" feel to those things (even though each user can have their own environment). I mean, you can add a clj script to your path and get the same effect, but that's what's different. He's not talking about someone messing around with a language ... he's talking about trying to imagine that the language is now part of the system. Again, Fantom sort of has this feel. Part of the DEFAULT instructions is to mess with your path and get things going. Check out the Fantom website. Sooooooooo simple and straight forward and inviting.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Seth <seth.schroe...@gmail.com> wrote: > I hate to feed trolls, but this is a solid example of passive- > aggresive behavior. Also, ignoring plausible sounding, spell-checked > diatribes is bad. > > The installation of one or two jar files from a Maven repository is > par for the JVM course. Deployment? Works on any reasonable JVM out > there. Could the install/deploy behavior be improved? Sure, but try > targeting something less ubiquitous than "ant". Slackware more modern > than Ubuntu?? > > Contrasting Clojure with Flash on Ubuntu really takes the cake. Flash > has never had a good reputation outside of Windows. Also, either the > poster is running as root (!) or has somehow forgotten a very > important su/sudo between steps 2 and 3. Either way, no sysadmin has > to be convinced. > > Wresting with pigs is bad because you get dirty and the pig likes it. > > On Mar 21, 2:42 pm, Tim Johnson <t...@johnsons-web.com> wrote: > > I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my > own > > professional decision and my recommendation to the professional > organizations > > that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time. > > > > Before any of you think that I am a disgruntled newbie turned troll, know > > the following: > > > > 1)As soon as I see the copy of this email in my "clojure mailbox", I will > > unsubscribe from this mailing list, delete the clojure mailbox and I will > not > > be following up in any way. > > > > 2)In as much as clojure is a new programming language with a small but > > enthusiastic user base and a brilliant developer I confess to a certain > deja vu > > here. That would be rebol 10 years ago. Brilliantly conceived, > brilliantly > > designed by one of the best programmers on the planet. Never went > anywhere. > > I've used rebol for 10 years steadily and made a lot of money with it, > but > > there is almost 0 demand for rebol programmers out there. > > > > 3)Although I may be a noob with it comes to clojure and even more of a > noob > > when it comes to java, I have been a professional analyst and programmer > for 21 > > years and own my own company. Many seasoned programmers, analysts and > system > > adminstrators look at a new system as something to "employ". As a front > end for > > java, I do not consider clojure to be "employable". > > > > I think that clojure is brilliantly conceived and it is clear from what I > have > > read of Rich Hickey's words that his vision is right in the same channel > with > > mine, but that is not the problem. The fact that I respect the developer > and > > the product is the reason that I have taken this time to write this > email. > > > > The reason I choose NOT to employ clojure can be summed up in three > words. > > ------------------- > > Install and deploy. > > ------------------- > > > > I consider this to be clojure's fatal weakness. Certainly I can get > clojure up > > and running, but "selling" clojure to a sysadmin is going to be a problem > at > > this time. There was a time when PHP was NOT present on virtually all > webservers. > > PHP got it's "foot in the door" because it was very easy to deploy. > > > > Consider the two threads that I started up - one is titled "Web > programming in > > Clojure" - there's the good stuff. Generous reponse, lots of input. > > > > The other one is titled "Installation issues on slack 13.0 (ant?)". This > where > > it all falls apart. > > > > Sadly, this is like the first impression and we all know how lasting > first > > impressions are. In fact as you can see, the thread ended with no > resolution. > > I'm sorry to pick on "steve" but his response is a case study > > > > * Steve <stephen.a.lind...@gmail.com> [100320 05:24]: > > > > > Reading the getting started page on the website will get you further > > > still :http://clojure.org/getting_started > > > > Sadly inadequate! Check out the comparable kawa resources and > instructions for > > a better example. > > > > > If you do need ant then a more modern distro will make your life much > > > easier (eg. apt-get install ant). > > > > Again, so inadequate. I also use ubuntu. Have for years. apt-get is a > thing > > of beauty. When it works. And bye the way, slackware is much more modern > > when it comes to up-to-date build tools. So know I not only have to > "sell" > > clojure to the sysadmins, I have to sell them ubuntu too? Good luck with > > that! > > > > Here's how I installed the flash player on my system. > > 1)Downloaded install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz > > 2)Unzipped libflashplayer.so > > 3)Copied to /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.2/plugins/ > > > > Make clojure "install and deployment" like the example above and more of > us will > > EMPLOY clojure and 10 years from now there WILL be a market for clojure > > programmers. > > > > Goodby and good luck. > > -- > > Tim > > t...@johnsons-web.comhttp://www.akwebsoft.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<clojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+ > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE > ME" as the subject. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. 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