Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> How do we effectively leverage some of the more advanced Clojure-oriented webservers such as Aleph and Immutant? I've just posted about yada on another thread, a library for 'proper' handling of Ring requests, fully supporting async. Although yada is a separate library, it fully complements b

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Sven, I like this idea. Thanks. -Hari On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 11:46:35 AM UTC-7, Sven Richter wrote: > > Hi, > > I had a short chat with Dmitri (the owner of luminus) and we both agreed > that this is a good plan. I just don't have much time right now (family > things), but as soon as th

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I haven't used Luminus since before 2.0, so I guess it may have changed a lot since. At the time, I was disheartened by the amount of code generated. I will take another look when I get time. On Tue, 5 May 2015 at 14:06 Dmitri wrote: > Luminus uses a minimal amount of generated code. It complete

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I assume most people here would agree with this: "Nothing is merely a pull request; it is someone's valuable time spent in contemplation and action." At the same time, I assume most people who would use Clojure will also know something about Git, and I think this applies even to fairly new pr

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

One way to think about documentation is this: you've just written this great and useful library! You surely want it to be useful and people to actually use it, right? (See earlier in the thread about Pedestal.) Well, the only way you'll reach that goal is by having solid documentation that can

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

First of all, I apologize to the group for any unfriendliness in my response. (Which may be poisonous to this group’s culture, I don’t know. Unfortunately, many old frustrations of mine were triggered, when I felt my question was given an uncharitable interpretation.) The term “pull request

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

This is certainly true: "Docs are about empathy, which means discussions should show empathy." I am not sure what you mean by "That response does not respect people’s limited time." I think you mean that Pull Requests are often a waste of time, because you can not be certain if the Pull Request

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 11:12:58 PM UTC+2, Andy Fingerhut wrote: > > Maybe you are not aware of the history, but clojure-doc.org exists > specifically because someone who spoke out loudly and repeatedly against > CAs took the time to create it, and it _only_ requires a Github account and >

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 2:15:53 PM UTC-5, Andy Fingerhut wrote: > > First some facts, without any evaluation: > > There are only a handful of people in the world with authorization to edit > pages on clojure.org. I would guess maybe only 5. > 14 > Far more have authorization to edit th

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Fluid Dynamics wrote: > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 3:15:53 PM UTC-4, Andy Fingerhut wrote: >> >> >> The "rough edges" show up on a lot of things in the Clojure ecosystem. I >> know I suck at documentation which is why I moved clojure.java.jdbc’s >> documentation

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 9:15:53 PM UTC+2, Andy Fingerhut wrote: > > I am not 'in the know' on decisions regarding clojure.org. > > [...] > What I find more interesting than the portion of Sean Corfield's post that > you chose to quote, was this one (emphasis added by me): > To clarify, b

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 11:34:15 AM UTC-5, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On May 5, 2015, at 11:48 PM, Kristo Koert > wrote: > > My argument was that a more visually appealing homepage would leave a > better first impression and attract more new beginner developers to check > out clojure. (Ex. c

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 3:15:53 PM UTC-4, Andy Fingerhut wrote: > > > The "rough edges" show up on a lot of things in the Clojure ecosystem. I > know I suck at documentation which is why I moved clojure.java.jdbc’s > documentation out to > http://clojure-doc.org/articles/ecosystem/java_jdbc

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 6, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote: > What I find more interesting than the portion of Sean Corfield's post that > you chose to quote, was this one (emphasis added by me): Thank you Andy, yes, that was indeed my main point. The guides repo (behind clojure-doc.org

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

First some facts, without any evaluation: There are only a handful of people in the world with authorization to edit pages on clojure.org. I would guess maybe only 5. Far more have authorization to edit the wiki pages on dev.clojure.org -- hundreds, I think. A subset of those who have signed a

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Hi, I had a short chat with Dmitri (the owner of luminus) and we both agreed that this is a good plan. I just don't have much time right now (family things), but as soon as there is more I will develop a prototype, integrating the features of closp and closp-crud into luminus and make them ava

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:34:15 PM UTC+2, Sean Corfield wrote: > > The issue has been raised several times and is pretty much always shut > down by "those in charge". It was a huge struggle just to have the Getting > Started page updated to remove complexity and point at the wiki instead >

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

>Also, most of the time you do not need any complex "framework" to build a basic webservice with Clojure. True. Also, what is a basic web service? I have a friend who just got done with the 12 week crash-course in Rails that is offered by DevBootcamp in New York City. In 12 weeks he had to lea

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Yes, Sven Richter has started a project called closp-crud that does just that. However it is also pretty easy to use Korma or YeSQL directly, especially from Luminus. --Sven On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 1:15:20 PM UTC-4, larry google groups wrote: > > > Maybe I don't entirely understand what a w

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> Maybe I don't entirely understand what a web framework is, but it seems to me > like Immutant is an example of something that might fit into a lot of the buckets. I agree. Perhaps people feel that it lacks the auto-generation of scaffolding for CRUD? Though I imagine that would be easy to f

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 5, 2015, at 11:48 PM, Kristo Koert wrote: > My argument was that a more visually appealing homepage would leave a better > first impression and attract more new beginner developers to check out > clojure. (Ex. comparing haskell.org or scala-lang.org vs clojure.org). An > opinion was expr

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Hey Sven, It looks to me like you could really polish the +auth part and integrate most of that part of closp into Luminus. I'd be happy to help with that. Then you could make a +closp that depends on +auth and build the UI parts, etc. Having a working +auth with a default db configuration, poss

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Good points, puzzler. I'm in the last stages of getting an commerce site ready for production and my issues with getting authentication to work properly may force my company to switch to an inferior but easier to configure technology (i.e., abandon Clojure). Sven Richter's friend-ui/closp wo

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Projects like Pedestal do themselves a tremendous disservice with their poor front pages. It's probably an amazing project but it was very difficult to get a sense from the README.Md what it could actually do for me. Whoever owns the Pedestal project, please add a section to the top that is lit

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Colin, Indeed, there is no ready-made shopping cart for Clojure (from what I know). Recently I was making the personal project site, and was also seeking for that, with no luck. Until I have realized that the shopping cart is just two data tables and (optional) user auth system (buddy worked fo

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

A bit strange approach. Where are ring, compojure, or maybe .. om? Also, most of the time you do not need any complex "framework" to build a basic webservice with Clojure. Say, Luminus and Caribou are too complex for me, hence too restrictive. After writing sufficient amount of fairly good Cloju

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Recommended article for those who want a library accumulator, with 20% effective utility and 80% fat, also called framework: http://www.computer.org/cms/Computer.org/ComputingNow/issues/2015/04/mso2015020010.pdf On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Kristo Koert wrote: > I unfortunately agree on the d

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I unfortunately agree on the difficulty of entrance for newcomers to clojure and I'd like to add that I've been left feeling that this seem to not be a priority in the community. Once I discussed the visual asthetics of clojure.org on #clojure and although the tradeoff of easy data access and e

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Maybe I don't entirely understand what a web framework is, but it seems to me like Immutant is an example of something that might fit into a lot of the buckets. Could someone explain how that isn't the case? Thanks, -- Morgon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Justin Smith speaks the truth about Caribou. I'm also one of the team members, and although we did lose our funding, we're all still around and there are a number of active Caribou projects alive and well. It does have everything Justin says, and yes, it's imperfect, but it's also very easy to

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Wow, what a thread! As one of the authors and designers of Caribou, I have a couple of clarifications to offer. When the initial post compared contributors and commits, it picked our "caribou" repo, which, while extensive, holds no code, only our docs. The actual code is in caribou-core (persi

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

To be honest it's disquieting that some of use think that because the problem is "solved" elsewhere we can't do better : we can, and we should. I appreciate the effort that has been made since the dawn of PHP for simple website - but we seem to be stuck on "Rails" iterative period - by that I

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Colin's response is spot on. The Clojure ecosystem is a lot of fun, and is really good for solving complex problems, but I think it falls short for handling things that have already been solved in other less technically interesting ecosystems. Shopping carts and payment gateway integration, as

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

One way I could see this working is having a more opinionated profile like +site or something that sets up an app with authentication, logins, a default model and so on. I would definitely support merging the efforts on this front. Ping me by email, and we can try figure out the details. :) On

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Luminus uses a minimal amount of generated code. It completely embraces the composable library approach. The difference from rolling your own each time is that it provides some structure and it's a curated set of libraries that are known to work well together. On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 3:46:09

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 05.05.2015 03:02, Daniel Compton wrote: What this may look like for Clojure in 2015 is probably very different than what it looked like for Ruby in 2004. It may be a traditional framework, a lein template, a standard pattern of code, a set of conventions and loosely coupled protocols, pretty m

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:41:02 AM UTC-4, Sven Richter wrote: > One potential problem with this "web framework" as app template approach > is upgrade-ability. When 2.0 of your "framework" comes out, what happens > to an app generated from 1.0 that wants to benefit from the new > capabilities? >

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Hi Dmitri, When I was building closp I was taking luminus as the base for it with some minor adoptions. I just had a look at the website of luminus and saw the massive amount of work you put into the documentation again. If that sounds reasonable for you I'd like to try to move closp and closp-

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

>>Do the advantages you've pointed out apply to teamwork, though? That's supposed to be where frameworks make life easier. Frameworks make life easier for teamwork, sure—as long as everyone knows the framework and has the same (presumably correct =P) understanding of it. In practice here, everyone

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

The Clojure community has a knack for looking at things and distilling them to their essence. I think the discussion on whether Clojure needs a web framework is another opportunity for that. I don't think Clojure doesn't need a web framework, because Clojure is a programming language and doesn't n

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> My guess is that over the next 2-3 years we will see some clojure frameworks emerge but > they will not be like "traditional" frameworks. Or the space for "web framework" will always default to Rails. Clojure certainly has some great frameworks in other areas, such as distributed data pro

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> I read several comments about how easy it is to upgrade Rails. > Either things have been improving at the speed of light or I am > a complete idiot. My last upgrades from 2.x to 2.y have been > nightmares, dependency hell multiplied by an unknown factor > above 100... I strongly agree. I t

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

As others have pointed out the comparison isn't really valid. Luminus intentionally aims to leverage existing libraries that are maintained independently whenever possible. I've been doing web dev with Clojure for the past 4 years and overall I do prefer the approach of using composable librari

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> I've taken a couple of long lived Rails apps from Rails 1 to Rails 4 and while there have been breaking changes with > each major version change (and some minor versions) in general it's pretty easy to keep up with the latest > versions and there are copious docs (even whole ebooks in some ca

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

And Flask was inspired by Sinatra, IIRC. Also, the rails folks thought that Sinatra would be a joke and no one would take it seriously. They were surprised. Ditto with Merb, which was a similarly more modular, and became so popular that rails actually merged with it. Clojure's Noir used to be simi

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I certainly have some personality disorders, but I am not bipolar :) What am I ? Help ! :) Luc P. > > And never has this author proven that programmers with bipolar > personality are > > programming more LISP then other languages. > > It's a metaphor. The author is not actually diagnosing Li

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> Very interesting discussion going on here. As a beginner, what I'd like to see is not something > like Django or Rails, but something like Flask. Flask started off as a sort of joke -- a few Python programmers, responding to criticism of bloat in Django, said it should be possible to create a

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> Someone earlier in the thread wrote about how Ruby was the abstraction in contrast to PHP where libraries > were tied to a framework. I've never worked with Rails seriously, but I find it hard to believe that libraries > such as shopping carts intended for Rails will work out of the box with

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> While I agree that g vim's metrics aren't terribly meaningful, the conclusion he's arriving at is an important one. I think g vim's metrics have some impact with management. Certainly, its worth talking about. A few months ago I was talking to the woman at the New York Times who overseas th

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> And never has this author proven that programmers with bipolar personality are > programming more LISP then other languages. It's a metaphor. The author is not actually diagnosing Lisp programmers with bipolar disorder. The metaphor offers an image of a particular kind of student who starts

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> Yes, Play has overtaken Lift, not because it is necessarily better, but > because TypeSafe are pouring marketing dollars into it, as part of their > drive to encourage Enterprise uptake of Scala. They have a vested interest in > Play being very successful as it will drive more business for the

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

  On May 4, 2015 at 3:51:23 PM, Josh Kamau (joshnet2...@gmail.com(mailto:joshnet2...@gmail.com)) wrote: > Another challenge is: There are alot of abandoned libraries and few reach > 1.0. That makes selecting the libraries to compose abit difficult. I think this is a key source of trouble. The

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 4, 2015, at 4:10 PM, gvim wrote: > I've been pretty impressed with Scala's main framework, Play 2. There seems > to be a lot of momentum behind their Typesafe Reactive Platform and, like > Rails, plenty of resources to get new users up to speed. Yes, Play has overtaken Lift, not because

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 05/05/2015 00:03, Raoul Duke wrote: Can you elaborate? Lift got it right or was a disaster? oh! good question, sorry :-) i believe it got it far more right than wrong. I've been pretty impressed with Scala's main framework, Play 2. There seems to be a lot of momentum behind their Typesa

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> Can you elaborate? Lift got it right or was a disaster? oh! good question, sorry :-) i believe it got it far more right than wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 04/05/2015 23:49, Raoul Duke wrote: vulnerabilities that would not exist using an integrated framework. fwiw, web + security always makes me think of http://liftweb.net/ Can you elaborate? Lift got it right or was a disaster? gvim -- You received this message because you are subscribed

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

>> vulnerabilities that would not exist using an integrated framework. fwiw, web + security always makes me think of http://liftweb.net/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Not

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 04/05/2015 23:17, blake wrote: I went from Ruby to Clojure in short-order and while I struggled mightily with the functional aspect (after assiduously avoiding those concepts for years), I much prefer every aspect of Clojure web programming to Rails. The bible of rails programming is the Hart

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 04/05/2015 21:48, Robert Levy wrote: Another thing worth mentioning that I don't see already mentioned is the case for a web framework from a security perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBL59w7fXw4 Having a lot of different pieces without standard ways of putting them together can in

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I went from Ruby to Clojure in short-order and while I struggled mightily with the functional aspect (after assiduously avoiding those concepts for years), I much prefer every aspect of Clojure web programming to Rails. The bible of rails programming is the Hartl book. In the edition I read, befor

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Another challenge is: There are alot of abandoned libraries and few reach 1.0. That makes selecting the libraries to compose abit difficult. On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Gregg Reynolds wrote: > > On May 4, 2015 7:16 AM, "Eric MacAdie" wrote: > > > > I think what Clojure needs is a default. I

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I tend to agree with this Gregg. Either it's a solution in search of a need, or it's a legitimate need but no one has produced something compelling enough that a critical mass (or even a small contingent) has picked up on and said "yes, this feels like a significant improvement over à la carte pie

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 4, 2015 7:16 AM, "Eric MacAdie" wrote: > > I think what Clojure needs is a default. It doesn't matter if it is a "web framework" like Rails, or "libraries strung together" like Luminus. > What Clojure needs is, well nothing. What the market MAY need is an entrepreneur who will produce the

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 1:53:30 PM UTC-4, Josh Kamau wrote: > > Thanks Sean. that makes sense. I didnt want that map to be stored as one > cookie because it could potentially be big... (there is a 4kb limit per > cookie right?) . I will dig into it and check. If that works for me, then > all

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Yes, without a database, serializing data using JWS or JWE... I have done similar thing with buddy-auth stateless backend. It not uses sessions but the concept is the same. Cheers. Andrey 2015-05-04 20:17 GMT+02:00 Sean Corfield : > On May 4, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Josh Kamau wrote: > > @Sean, i w

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 4, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Josh Kamau wrote: > @Sean, i wanted totally stateless backend. Without a database? :) Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) --

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

@Sean, i wanted totally stateless backend. On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > On May 4, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Josh Kamau wrote: > > Thanks Sean. that makes sense. I didnt want that map to be stored as > one cookie because it could potentially be big... (there is a 4kb limit p

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On May 4, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Josh Kamau wrote: > Thanks Sean. that makes sense. I didnt want that map to be stored as one > cookie because it could potentially be big... (there is a 4kb limit per > cookie right?) . I will dig into it and check. If that works for me, then all > i need is compo

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Thanks Sean. that makes sense. I didnt want that map to be stored as one cookie because it could potentially be big... (there is a 4kb limit per cookie right?) . I will dig into it and check. If that works for me, then all i need is compojure, ring and the awesome ring-defaults middleware. No ne

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Not sure what you mean by "one flash value" — I’d expect you to have a map of "flash" scope data and that’s the way my FW/1 behaves: you assoc values into the "flash scope" and they’re restored on the next request. On May 4, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Josh Kamau wrote: > I am currently trying to "redir

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I am currently trying to "redirect-after-post" with validation errors. I have already cooked up my way of validating maps. However, i cant find a straight forward way for pushing the errors in a 'flash' and then read them in my template (am currently using freemarker.). I have seen the flash mid

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Cheers, and thanks :-) It's free, so feel... free to use it :-) On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Marcus Blankenship wrote: > Ok, honestly, this is super cool. Well done! > > On May 4, 2015, at 8:19 AM, Christopher Small > wrote: > > I've been enjoying this thread, but don't currently have the b

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Ok, honestly, this is super cool. Well done! On May 4, 2015, at 8:19 AM, Christopher Small wrote: > I've been enjoying this thread, but don't currently have the bandwidth to > read everyone's messages and figure out in my head what the distribution of > opinions is or who is on what side of t

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I've been enjoying this thread, but don't currently have the bandwidth to read everyone's messages and figure out in my head what the distribution of opinions is or who is on what side of this conversation. Fortunately, I built a tool for this! It's called pol.is, and it uses real time data visual

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

While I totally agree with you on the topic of composing things to solve a problem at hand I think you are talking about a different audience here than the audience such a "framework" is aiming for. You are talking about experienced developers that know how to solve problems, that know advantage

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

+1 This exactly the kind of exercises that needs to done as part of a product design. New potential needs have to be foreseen at this stage, not 18 months after a first release. This is why I hate frameworks, they assume some of these decisions and it's not always stated clearly. Someone has to d

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

My 2 cents: I don't think the biggest problem is that the community is fragmented as there is many options to choose, but that the attitude towards newcomers is bad. Let's say that I was learning clojure about 2 years ago and when I asked about which web framework should I use, people started rai

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 04/05/2015 15:24, Timothy Baldridge wrote: The thing that bugs me the most about these sort of conversations about "best practices" is that they often present a set of solutions without first analyzing the problem at hand. If I came to this mailing list and asked "I want to write a websever i

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

The thing that bugs me the most about these sort of conversations about "best practices" is that they often present a set of solutions without first analyzing the problem at hand. If I came to this mailing list and asked "I want to write a websever in Clojure..what should I use?". The response wou

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 04/05/2015 14:34, Ernie de Feria wrote: I would like to echo the sentiment expressed by several posters in this thread, but with a slight twist. A few years back I picked up Ruby and Ruby on Rails as the language/framework to create a website with moderate complexity and functionality. I did t

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I would like to echo the sentiment expressed by several posters in this thread, but with a slight twist. A few years back I picked up Ruby and Ruby on Rails as the language/framework to create a website with moderate complexity and functionality. I did this without any prior experience with the

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I thought about it and all that came to my mind that there simply won't be an upgrade path. Once you generated your code / templates / whatever you are done and up to yourself. Having a supported upgrade path might be 1. to much for one or two persons to handle 2. Incompatible to the "generate"

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Am Montag, 4. Mai 2015 14:09:35 UTC+2 schrieb Sean Johnson: > > > > On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:41:02 AM UTC-4, Sven Richter wrote: > > All in all this is basically the direction I want to go with closp and >> closp-crud. The intention is not to have a webframework, but to automatize >> steps t

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

I think what Clojure needs is a default. It doesn't matter if it is a "web framework" like Rails, or "libraries strung together" like Luminus. When a Ruby newbie asks how to make a web app, the default answer is to look at Rails. In Python, the default answer is Django. Compared to that, the defau

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:41:02 AM UTC-4, Sven Richter wrote: All in all this is basically the direction I want to go with closp and > closp-crud. The intention is not to have a webframework, but to automatize > steps that need to be done manually otherwise. > One potential problem with thi

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

This is something that I'm currently working on: https://github.com/funcool/catacumba It is still in alpha, but it has the same philosophy that you have mention. Cheers. Andrey 2015-05-04 12:06 GMT+02:00 John Louis Del Rosario : > Very interesting discussion going on here. As a beginner, what I'

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Very interesting discussion going on here. As a beginner, what I'd like to see is not something like Django or Rails, but something like Flask. Where someone can just (require 'someframework) and it works. Maybe it could have thin wrappers over compojure, etc., since it will need to be opinionat

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Note that the shopping cart is just one specific example from my current itch that needs scratching - it's a very common one, but I'm sure there are plenty more reusable component types that people expect these days. One problem I see with the composition approach (which I'm a huge fan of in gener

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

So, what I gather from this discussion are the following points. Clojure "needs" a "webframework" that is - fully documented - easy for beginners to use - opinionated about the libraries - structured - composable - has something nice like django's admin backend - a vibrant community support - a s

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Also Coils (https://github.com/zubairq/coils) On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 10:43:53 PM UTC+2, g vim wrote: > > I recently did some research into web frameworks on Github. Here's what > I found: > > > FRAMEWORK LANG CONTRIBUTORS COMMITS > > LuminusClojure

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Sven Richter wrote: > Reading through all the discussion I don't get which features you are > actually missing. I love luminus and did a lot with it, however, for me it > was missing some standard stuff, that's why I put together closp, which is > just another lei

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

> > I recently did some research into web frameworks on Github. Here's what I > found > I've noticed that you didn't include pedestal (https://github.com/pedestal/pedestal). I don't have personal experience with it, but I think it is aimed at providing framework-like functionality with a Cloj

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

Sven Richter wrote: For the rest I agree with what is mostly said here, the beauty of clojure lies in the nature of small composable building blocks and the same goes for frameworks, so, basically it's all there, one just has to put it together. If composable building blocks are superior to f

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 4:18:26 PM UTC-7, James Reeves wrote: > > On 4 May 2015 at 00:02, gvim > wrote: >> >> I posted some figures at the beginning of this thread where I was >> comparing frameworks, not components. A framework is more than the sum of >> it's components so I don't think compar

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 4 May 2015 at 00:51, Jason Whitlark wrote: > > While I agree that g vim's metrics aren't terribly meaningful, the > conclusion he's arriving at is an important one. I've heavily used Clojure > in production for years, and there have been a number of times where having > to hand assemble everyt

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 4 May 2015 at 00:02, gvim wrote: > > I posted some figures at the beginning of this thread where I was > comparing frameworks, not components. A framework is more than the sum of > it's components so I don't think comparing Ring and Compojure to Phoenix or > Play is relevant. Clojure frameworks

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

If it is more than the sum of its components, what does it add? What are you missing that couldn't be done in a component or template, that other languages have because they have frameworks? On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 1:02:56 AM UTC+2, g vim wrote: > > On 03/05/2015 23:55, James Reeves wrote: >

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 03/05/2015 23:55, James Reeves wrote: On 3 May 2015 at 23:36, gvim mailto:gvi...@gmail.com>> wrote: Yes, I do program in Clojure. Exclusively at the moment as I'm currently free to work on my own startup project. I'm using Luminus and enjoy it so I didn't start this thread out of

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 3 May 2015 at 23:36, gvim wrote: > Yes, I do program in Clojure. Exclusively at the moment as I'm currently > free to work on my own startup project. I'm using Luminus and enjoy it so I > didn't start this thread out of dissatisfaction with Luminus itself but > more from a sense of frustration

Re: Clojure needs a web framework with more momentum

On 03/05/2015 19:01, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote: I would recommend watching the video "Simple made easy" by Rich Hickey: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy . By watching this video, I realized there is no sense writing frameworks in Clojure. Not because the video says so, but beca

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