RE: Hello from a new MBP owner.

[M. Taylor]

Hello John and Welcome Aboard:

 

My name is Mark.  

 

Here are two resources that will help answer your questions about Mail:

 

1.

I just published a 9 minute podcast on how I use the Mail client in Lion.  

  Click
Here to Listen.

 

2.

I strongly suggest that you read the VoiceOver Getting Started User Guide:  

 
Click Here to View.

 

Mark

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Chilelli
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:27 PM
To: MacVisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Hello from a new MBP owner.

 

Well I'm a new MBP owner with lots to learn!  Using the mail program in
Lion..  Can someone please send me a  short list of VO commands for making
it easier to navigate in mail to open, close single and threaded messages,
or moving messages to mailboxes for saving and future reference?

 

Thank you folks much,

 

Johnny Chilelli

Erie, PA  

 

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strange behavior with Lion

[Shen]

So I came home today and thought I do some things on my MacBook Pro,
such as checking email and browse the internet.
The Mac booted up, I logged in, everything works fine except my volume
controls, F11 and F12 don't work. I checked everything and confirmed
that everything on my keyboard works. Even Fn plus F11 and F12 work
just fine. I thought perhaps it's my BlueTooth keyboard acting up.
Keep in mind this never happened with Snow Leopard.
I reached over to the built-in keyboard in my MacBook Pro. No dice!
F11 and F12 just refuse to work.
OK, I thought perhaps the machine needs a restart. Even though it has
just been booted up after being off the entire day. I'll give it the
benefit of the doubt.
I restarted my machine, got to the log in window, provided my
credentials, and logged in. After reaching the Desktop, I tried the
volume keys again. Still, they didn't work. This was the most puzzling
thing to me. Of all the things not to work, it's the volume controls.
I was able to use VO-M to open the status menu and check the system
volume. According to the status menu, the System volume is set to
100-percent. I know it's not because it would distort my speakers. I
tried using the arrow keys to adjust the volume in the status menu. It
wouldn't budge. It stayed at 100-percent. Is that weird or not?
OK, this time, I decided to give it the cold restart, turning it
completely off, then on.
After restarting a second time, my volume controls came back.
Before any of you question me whether I have a functioning keyboard or
not, let me end this message by tell ing you that this has never
happened before when I was running Snow Leopard. And come to think of
it, a similar incident happened last week, a couple of days after
installing Lion. But since I was in the process of rebooting,I didn't
bother to stop and investigate. That time, everything did not work
except for the volume buttons. After restarting, everything came back
to normal so I didn't think much of it.

So has anyone experienced this before?
Does anyone have any guesses whether this is just a glitch in Lion,
having upgraded from Snow Leopard? Will a clean install of Lion get
rid of these little annoyances?



-- 
Shen
goalb...@gmail.com

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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Shen]

I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, that 
you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. Then 
use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites bar.
To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press VO-Comma.
If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
press VO-Greater Than.

hth


On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

> Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
> 
> Teresa
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
> 
>> Hi Teresa,
>> 
>>  I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
>> bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one that 
>> drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so I 
>> picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
>> interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
>> shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
>> worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
>>> them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
>>> "area to drop may be hidden", or "item to be dragged no longer in view". 
>>> I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when not 
>>> in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
>>> 
>>> TiA,
>>> Teresa
>>> 
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Choosing a Mac Book Air

[Garth Humphreys]

Hi

I am trying to decide which Mac Book Air to buy.  I would love to hear the 
experiences of those of you who use the zoom feature with VO.  I have been 
trying the air out at our local Apple store and am trying to decide between 
the 11 inch and the 13 inch models.


Firstly, do you all think that it is important to get 4  Gb RAM or would 2 
Gb be fine with VO.  Keep in mind that the Air would primarily be used for 
email and browsing. At times I will be using the Air for skype and will want 
to be able to record the audio.


Next, how well does the Zoom feature work. The reason for asking is that I 
am trying to evaluate the value of spending an extra $100 or so for the 
extra screen realestate of the 13 inch.  My sight is poor enough that I 
would probably only use the screen to help get out of those tricky 
situations where seeing the screen makes it easier.  I hope this makes sence 
to some of you.


I would really value any imput. I understand that a lot of wat I have asked 
is quite qualitative and up to the individual however I would like to hear 
any opinions.


Any answers about my previous question on how to get out of Gmails web 
interface would also be helpful.


Thanks
Garth 


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RE: Auto log in for the Mac

[Frank Ventura]

I am still struggling with this issue. I have found options for
disabling auto login in the Accounts applet of system preferences but
all items appear to be dimmed. There is a radio button for auto log in
as well as check boxes for use voice over and show password hints. All
of which are dimmed as well. In security there is only one button that
is not dimmed.
Frank

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 7:59 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Auto log in for the Mac

It was in security I think, something about the automatic log in.
On Jul 3, 2011, at 12:05 PM, Missy Hoppe wrote:

> Hi! I had this problem for a while, but changed it somewhere under 
> system preferences. I wish I could remember exactly, but the 1 thing I

> remember clearly is that 1 setting was the opposite of what you'd
logically think it should be. I think you have to disable auto-login.
Anyway, mine doesn't do it any more. Good luck fixing the problem.
> Missy
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Auto log in for the Mac
> 
> Hi all, my Mac Book Pro just started doing something different after 
> the last round of updates. When powered on it used to immediately log
me in.
> Now when powered on it lands at the log on screen and asks me to log 
> on, even though I have the only account on this Mac. Any ideas how I 
> can fix this?
> Tia
> Frank
> 
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RE: Auto log in for the Mac

[Frank Ventura]

Mark, thanks I found it under accounts but everything appears to be
dimmed. Any thoughts anyone?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk
Baxter
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Auto log in for the Mac

Try Apple prefs, press the Account button, and I believe it's under
there.


 * Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 * AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969  * MSN:
burninghawk1...@hotmail.com  * My home page:
 * http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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RE: Auto log in for the Mac

[Frank Ventura]

Thanks, I can hear those controls but all say dimmed? Is there something
I have to do to enable them?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Miller
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:17 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac

Hi,

You need to go into System Preferences, Users (I can't remember exactly
what it's called, but it's something like that), and then look for
something that says Login Options. I believe it's under that section,
and you have to turn Automatic login off.
HTH
Daniel


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Missy Hoppe
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac

Hi! I had this problem for a while, but changed it somewhere under
system preferences. I wish I could remember exactly, but the 1 thing I
remember clearly is that 1 setting was the opposite of what you'd
logically think it should be. I think you have to disable auto-login.
Anyway, mine doesn't do it any more. Good luck fixing the problem.
Missy


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Auto log in for the Mac

Hi all, my Mac Book Pro just started doing something different after the
last round of updates. When powered on it used to immediately log me in.
Now when powered on it lands at the log on screen and asks me to log on,
even though I have the only account on this Mac. Any ideas how I can fix
this?
Tia
Frank

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Re: Auto log in for the Mac

[Daniel Montalvo]

You have to take the padlock into account. In all the preference
windows, towards the bottom of the screen, there's a checkbox that
says "Click here to prevent future changes" or something. Play with
this and tell us how it goes!

2011/7/28, Frank Ventura :
> Thanks, I can hear those controls but all say dimmed? Is there something
> I have to do to enable them?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Miller
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:17 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac
>
> Hi,
>
> You need to go into System Preferences, Users (I can't remember exactly
> what it's called, but it's something like that), and then look for
> something that says Login Options. I believe it's under that section,
> and you have to turn Automatic login off.
> HTH
> Daniel
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Missy Hoppe
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac
>
> Hi! I had this problem for a while, but changed it somewhere under
> system preferences. I wish I could remember exactly, but the 1 thing I
> remember clearly is that 1 setting was the opposite of what you'd
> logically think it should be. I think you have to disable auto-login.
> Anyway, mine doesn't do it any more. Good luck fixing the problem.
> Missy
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Auto log in for the Mac
>
> Hi all, my Mac Book Pro just started doing something different after the
> last round of updates. When powered on it used to immediately log me in.
> Now when powered on it lands at the log on screen and asks me to log on,
> even though I have the only account on this Mac. Any ideas how I can fix
> this?
> Tia
> Frank
>
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Re: Strange thing with folders

[Ricardo Walker]

So do I.  I believe columns is the best way to go for voiceover.  Its less 
chatty than list mode.  I often don't need to know the date and time the file 
or folder was created.  And just press left and right arrow to open or close 
folders seems simpler to me.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:02 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:

Hi Jeff and Allison:
I have my view set to columns.  When I open a folder, I do so by right 
arrowing, and the list behaves normally.  I don't know if this is helpful or 
not, but you might want to try column.  
Take care
Carolyn
On Jul 27, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Jeff Bishop wrote:

> I am also seeing this behavior. I hope someone has the solution.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allison Manzino
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:58 PM
> To: Mac Visionaries
> Subject: Strange thing with folders
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Every time i try to open a folder in documents the strangest thing happens.
> I open the folder with command O, but I have to hit shift VO M and go down
> to the view submenu  and enter on list to get the items in the folder to be
> displayed. Why is this? I just used to hit command O and it worked
> perfectly. Any ideas? Thank you for any assistance you can proide.
> Allison
> 
> My birds are winged blessings, they help me soar!
> 
> 
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Re: new member with several questions.

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

You can find a bunch of getting started information at icanworkthisthing.com

hth

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 1:39 AM, jim rawls wrote:

Thanks Christopher. We'll probably take it. Jim

From: Christopher Peppel
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: new member with several questions.

Hi Jim,

I took the one-on-one course at the Apple store and it was definitely worth it. 
 In the store I went to, the folks were very friendly and helpful.  It was 
probably the best money I spent.

Chris
On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:11 PM, jim rawls wrote:

> Hi All,
> My wife and I will be buying a mac pro computer in the next little while. I 
> am clueless about where to start to learn the mac with voice over. I have 
> been a jaws user on windows computer since the year 2000, but think it is 
> time to take the plunge and learn the mac with voice over. So, question. 
> Would it help us to get the one to one program offered at the Mac store with 
> our purchase?
> My wife is sighted, I am not.
> Second, where can I find the list of commands to use on the Mac?
> Thirdly, is the new lion commands up to learn?
> I can't think f any more things now, but no doubt will, so if you can give 
> this clueless potential user of the mac pro some hints on where to start, it 
> would be greatly appreciated.
> thanks for your help.
> Jim
> 
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Re: Choosing a Mac Book Air

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

first, I would recommend getting at least 4GB of RAM.  Lion requires at least 
2GB of RAM.  I would want some wiggle room.  I think Zoom can get you by for 
those situations where VO isn't getting the job done but, I think Zoom has been 
neglected a lot by Apple accessibility.  This might be do to a extremely small 
zoom community.  So I don't know how you would like using zoom 24/7.  Maybe 
some full time zoom users can chime in here?  As far as screen size, thats only 
a question you can answer.  Just go to your local Apple store and compare the 2 
screen sizes while using zoom.

hth

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Garth Humphreys wrote:

Hi

I am trying to decide which Mac Book Air to buy.  I would love to hear the 
experiences of those of you who use the zoom feature with VO.  I have been 
trying the air out at our local Apple store and am trying to decide between the 
11 inch and the 13 inch models.

Firstly, do you all think that it is important to get 4  Gb RAM or would 2 Gb 
be fine with VO.  Keep in mind that the Air would primarily be used for email 
and browsing. At times I will be using the Air for skype and will want to be 
able to record the audio.

Next, how well does the Zoom feature work. The reason for asking is that I am 
trying to evaluate the value of spending an extra $100 or so for the extra 
screen realestate of the 13 inch.  My sight is poor enough that I would 
probably only use the screen to help get out of those tricky situations where 
seeing the screen makes it easier.  I hope this makes sence to some of you.

I would really value any imput. I understand that a lot of wat I have asked is 
quite qualitative and up to the individual however I would like to hear any 
opinions.

Any answers about my previous question on how to get out of Gmails web 
interface would also be helpful.

Thanks
Garth 
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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I don't think this makes a difference at all.  As long as both the place where 
your marking and dragging are visible on the screen, cursor tracking doesn't 
matter.  I just turned cursor tracking off and was able to drag and drop a 
folder to the favorites bar.

hth

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shen wrote:

I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, that 
you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. Then 
use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites bar.
To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press VO-Comma.
If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
press VO-Greater Than.

hth


On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

> Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
> 
> Teresa
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
> 
>> Hi Teresa,
>> 
>>  I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
>> bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one that 
>> drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so I 
>> picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
>> interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
>> shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
>> worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
>>> them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
>>> "area to drop may be hidden", or "item to be dragged no longer in view". 
>>> I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when not 
>>> in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
>>> 
>>> TiA,
>>> Teresa
>>> 
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Re: Looking for a music creator program

[Ricardo Walker]

I don't know this for sure but I believe it does.  Why not have her try it out?

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 27, 2011, at 9:58 PM, Paul Henrichsen wrote:

Does garage band allow one to enter a score without hooking up a midi device? 
Cakewalk and scorewriter allowed one to do this using a mouse. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2011, at 12:40 PM, "Jeff Bishop"  wrote:

> Couldn't Garage Band do this maybe?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Henrichsen
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:38 PM
> To: Mac Visionaries Discussion List
> Subject: Looking for a music creator program
> 
> Hi, All. On the PC, my sighted wife used to use a version of Cakewalk a few
> years ago which allowed her to enter music one note at a time. I'm not a
> music reader, but i guess she could enter the staffs and create the entire
> choir song as if it were played on the piano. 
> She would use her mouse to do this.
> She could then save the mp3 so I could listen to it and learn my part. She
> could even drop the volume on the other parts so I could primarily hear the
> bass line.
> Is there anything like that on the Mac?
> I'd like to find something for as I know she enjoyed entering music.
> Since she is sighted, accessibility isn't an issue.
> Thanks.
> 
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Re: latest iPhone update?

[Donna Goodin]

Thanks, Chris.  I finally did take the plunge last night, and yes, all is well. 
*sigh of relief) :)
Cheers,
Donna

On Jul 27, 2011, at 10:57 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> It's ok.  I updated mine, and nothing blew up.  The only thing they did was 
> to patch a security bug they found, so, I'd say your I O S devices are fine 
> to update, just don't update Itunes, if you can help it.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:53 PM
> Subject: latest iPhone update?
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I just went to sync my phone and got a message that update 4.29 is 
>> available.  Given how underwhelmed I am with Lion, and the complete disaster 
>> that is the current version of iTunes, I'm reluctant to update. Has anyone 
>> tried it yet?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Lion DVD

[Hayri Tulumcu]

How can you remove snow leopard completely when it is only an upgrade DVD? For 
it fills the only 3.49GB!

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Re: new member with several questions.

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Jim!
Well I suppose you could ask at your particular Apple store what there 
knowledge is and your other half would also be able to put it to good use if 
needed!
So as long as they [at the store] can fit you in I understand you can have 
quite a lot of 1 to 1 help!
And just one more thing!
If your particular store are not very knowledgable about vo then you signing up 
might help them learn!
Or you might find they are already quite good!
hth Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 06:39, jim rawls wrote:

> Thanks Christopher. We'll probably take it. Jim
> 
> From: Christopher Peppel
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:29 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: new member with several questions.
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I took the one-on-one course at the Apple store and it was definitely worth 
> it.  In the store I went to, the folks were very friendly and helpful.  It 
> was probably the best money I spent.
> 
> Chris
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:11 PM, jim rawls wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> My wife and I will be buying a mac pro computer in the next little while. I 
>> am clueless about where to start to learn the mac with voice over. I have 
>> been a jaws user on windows computer since the year2000, but think it is 
>> time to take the plunge and learn the mac with voice over. So, question. 
>> Would it help us to get the one to one program offered at the Mac store with 
>> our purchase?
>> My wife is sighted, I am not.
>> Second, where can I find the list of commands to use on the Mac?
>> Thirdly, is the new lion commands up to learn?
>> I can't think f any more things now, but no doubt will, so if you can give 
>> this clueless potential user of the mac pro some hints on where to start, it 
>> would be greatly appreciated.
>> thanks for your help.
>> Jim
>> 
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Boot Camp questions

[Vince Mistretta]

Sorry for the long post but here goes...

Well I finally did the deed - got W7HP on my iMac late 2009.  The
biggest problem was the fact the version of BC was 3.0 and very few of
the drivers worked with W7.  I tried to download the 3.1 update from
apple several times prior to starting this task but I always got the
3.2 update not the 3.1 update (version I have with this iMac is 3.0).
Having the ATI drivers loaded to a thumb drive worked well since the
screen didn't go black for long periods of time.

Once W7 came up and I got my network working, I ran Apple Update and
it pulled down the 3.1 version of boot camp.  Doing this with no
Narrator was a pain since my help had to come in and check on things
until after it all installed.  Narrator, once started did not speak
the warning screens asking if you want this program to update this
computer so got stuck there.  Once I got everything running - loaded
Jaws 12 and all came up fine and working well...

Now, it was late so my wife went to sleep so I have a question since
I'm not home now.  I tried researching this in the archives but can't
find any reference to exactly when to hold the Option key (Alt on a
Windows USB Keyboard) to get the boot options at startup.  Is it
before the iMac plays the startup noise or after and how long?  Then,
is the selection side by side or above and below each other on the
screen.  I've got OSX as my startup selection, but tried hitting
Option at several points and moved the selection (what I thought would
be the time to do it) but it still kept on bootting into OSX.  If I
change it in Startup Disk in SL, and restart it comes up in windows
and vice versa.

The other issue I'm having is the BT.  It's on and working.  I show
all the drivers in the Device Manager under W7, but can't seem to get
the keyboard and TrackPad found.  I did get the mouse connected it
seems.  Any ideas??

-- 
Vince Mistretta
My Tech / Programming mailbox

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voiceover bug

[chad baker]

hi has anyone experienced vo not going to menu bars
it will read just apple and nothing else
i tried turning vo off and on
also its slow typing with alex 
he needs a boost
thanks

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Re: Auto log in for the Mac

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
You have to go to the end of the preference pane. It will say "click the lock 
to make changes". Just vo-space on it, it will ask for your password, then 
you'll hear a sound, then the controls won't be dimmed anymore.
HTH,
Courtney
On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:38 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:

> Thanks, I can hear those controls but all say dimmed? Is there something
> I have to do to enable them?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Miller
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:17 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You need to go into System Preferences, Users (I can't remember exactly
> what it's called, but it's something like that), and then look for
> something that says Login Options. I believe it's under that section,
> and you have to turn Automatic login off.
> HTH
> Daniel
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Missy Hoppe
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Auto log in for the Mac
> 
> Hi! I had this problem for a while, but changed it somewhere under
> system preferences. I wish I could remember exactly, but the 1 thing I
> remember clearly is that 1 setting was the opposite of what you'd
> logically think it should be. I think you have to disable auto-login.
> Anyway, mine doesn't do it any more. Good luck fixing the problem.
> Missy
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Auto log in for the Mac
> 
> Hi all, my Mac Book Pro just started doing something different after the
> last round of updates. When powered on it used to immediately log me in.
> Now when powered on it lands at the log on screen and asks me to log on,
> even though I have the only account on this Mac. Any ideas how I can fix
> this?
> Tia
> Frank
> 
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Re: voiceover bug

[Cody]

I aven't had the issue where voiceover goes to the menu bar, but I sometimes 
get alex repeating apple apple apple apple apple for some reason…could this be 
because of the the mouse pointer? it can't be in my case, because the mouse 
pointer follows the voiceover cursor
On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:36 AM, chad baker wrote:

> hi has anyone experienced vo not going to menu bars
> it will read just apple and nothing else
> i tried turning vo off and on
> also its slow typing with alex 
> he needs a boost
> thanks
> 
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Re: Using gmail web interface

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Garth!
OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
under that options!
When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
like your profile!
You should find the sign out link there as well!
You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is set 
on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will select 
that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
vo+space on it!
hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:

> 
> 
> Garth
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Garth Humphreys 
>> Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
>> To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
>> Subject: Using gmail web interface
>> 
>> Hi 
>> 
>> I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been playing 
>> with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail account in store 
>> and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
>> 
>> The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu that 
>> dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not work out 
>> how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to log out for 
>> me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't work it out. As I 
>> don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very inexperienced at using the 
>> Mac.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Garth
> 
> 
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Re: Boot Camp questions

[Cody]

As soon as you hear the start up chime, hold down option for about 10 or 15 
seconds and then press right arrow then press enter.
On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:35 AM, Vince Mistretta wrote:

> Sorry for the long post but here goes...
> 
> Well I finally did the deed - got W7HP on my iMac late 2009.  The
> biggest problem was the fact the version of BC was 3.0 and very few of
> the drivers worked with W7.  I tried to download the 3.1 update from
> apple several times prior to starting this task but I always got the
> 3.2 update not the 3.1 update (version I have with this iMac is 3.0).
> Having the ATI drivers loaded to a thumb drive worked well since the
> screen didn't go black for long periods of time.
> 
> Once W7 came up and I got my network working, I ran Apple Update and
> it pulled down the 3.1 version of boot camp.  Doing this with no
> Narrator was a pain since my help had to come in and check on things
> until after it all installed.  Narrator, once started did not speak
> the warning screens asking if you want this program to update this
> computer so got stuck there.  Once I got everything running - loaded
> Jaws 12 and all came up fine and working well...
> 
> Now, it was late so my wife went to sleep so I have a question since
> I'm not home now.  I tried researching this in the archives but can't
> find any reference to exactly when to hold the Option key (Alt on a
> Windows USB Keyboard) to get the boot options at startup.  Is it
> before the iMac plays the startup noise or after and how long?  Then,
> is the selection side by side or above and below each other on the
> screen.  I've got OSX as my startup selection, but tried hitting
> Option at several points and moved the selection (what I thought would
> be the time to do it) but it still kept on bootting into OSX.  If I
> change it in Startup Disk in SL, and restart it comes up in windows
> and vice versa.
> 
> The other issue I'm having is the BT.  It's on and working.  I show
> all the drivers in the Device Manager under W7, but can't seem to get
> the keyboard and TrackPad found.  I did get the mouse connected it
> seems.  Any ideas??
> 
> -- 
> Vince Mistretta
> My Tech / Programming mailbox
> 
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Re: Lion DVD

[James Malone]

You need to run Disc Utility from the boot CD, select the HD your
partition for SL is on, then click erase.
HTH

On 7/28/11, Hayri Tulumcu  wrote:
> How can you remove snow leopard completely when it is only an upgrade DVD?
> For it fills the only 3.49GB!
>
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New mac and apple care pertection plan.

[matthew dyer at work]

Hi all.  I currently have a old mac  mini which is over 2 years old.  I 
have sl installed on it and it only has 1 gb of ram so can not install 
lion on it do to the specks of this machine.  I have possible 2 bad usb 
ports and even possibly a bad cd rom drive.  Any how If I were to get a 
new machine and assooming it was something like a mac book pro could my 
acp be transfered over to it or not.  I want to have something that has 
a screen since I woould have to pay extra for a display and addapter.  I 
am hoping I can maybe get someone to go in on it oor somethinng. I am 
not sure though.  Just wondered though.  Thanks.


Matthew


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Re: Using gmail web interface

[Garth Humphreys]

Hi Colin

Thanks for the response. I can understand your directions. I will try the VO + 
U option tomorrow when in store.  

When I tried it last time, I was able to find my name on the web interface. The 
Apple rep could see on screen that the sign out link came up on screen when I 
selected the link with my name however neither of us could get VO to then go to 
the sign out  link.   BTW I tried both VO+space and the quick nav up / down 
arrows to select the my name link.

Apart from this issue I found that it was really natural to be able to navigate 
the web with the track pad commander but there is also a lot that will take 
some getting use to.   

Thanks 
Garth

On 28/07/2011, at 10:40 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
wrote:

> Hi Garth!
> OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
> under that options!
> When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
> This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
> like your profile!
> You should find the sign out link there as well!
> You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is 
> set on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
> So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
> narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
> So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will 
> select that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
> There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
> your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
> vo+space on it!
> hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
> Colin
> 
> On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Garth
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>>> From: Garth Humphreys 
>>> Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
>>> To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
>>> Subject: Using gmail web interface
>>> 
>> 
>>> Hi 
>>> 
>>> I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been 
>>> playing with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail account 
>>> in store and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
>>> 
>>> The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu 
>>> that dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not work 
>>> out how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to log out 
>>> for me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't work it out. 
>>> As I don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very inexperienced at using 
>>> the Mac.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Garth
>> 
>> 
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Re: voiceover bug

[Bryan Jones]

Hello Chad,

I have been experiencing something similar to this since installing Lion. From 
time to time I will not be able to arrow right from the Apple menu, but I can 
always arrow left from there and work my way backwards. Can you give that a try 
and let me know what your results are?

Cheers,
Bryan

On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:36 AM, chad baker wrote:

> hi has anyone experienced vo not going to menu bars
> it will read just apple and nothing else
> i tried turning vo off and on
> also its slow typing with alex 
> he needs a boost
> thanks

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Re: voiceover bug

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
I've only gotten this problem once, but then I escaped out of the menu bar, and 
it worked fine ever since.
Courtney

On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:39 AM, Cody wrote:

> I aven't had the issue where voiceover goes to the menu bar, but I sometimes 
> get alex repeating apple apple apple apple apple for some reason…could this 
> be because of the the mouse pointer? it can't be in my case, because the 
> mouse pointer follows the voiceover cursor
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:36 AM, chad baker wrote:
> 
>> hi has anyone experienced vo not going to menu bars
>> it will read just apple and nothing else
>> i tried turning vo off and on
>> also its slow typing with alex 
>> he needs a boost
>> thanks
>> 
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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Teresa Cochran]

I think the problem I'm having is not knowing when something isn't visible. I 
will probably have to get my sighted husband to help me. The folder I want to 
move is at the very bottom of the list, about as far away from the favorites 
bar as possible. I get a consistent "not in view" message when I try to drag 
it, and I can't seem to move it anywhere else, either.

Thanks,
Teresa
On Jul 28, 2011, at 3:40 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't think this makes a difference at all.  As long as both the place 
> where your marking and dragging are visible on the screen, cursor tracking 
> doesn't matter.  I just turned cursor tracking off and was able to drag and 
> drop a folder to the favorites bar.
> 
> hth
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shen wrote:
> 
> I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, 
> that you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
> So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. Then 
> use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
> Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites 
> bar.
> To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press 
> VO-Comma.
> If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
> that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
> If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
> press VO-Greater Than.
> 
> hth
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
>> 
>> Teresa
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Teresa,
>>> 
>>> I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
>>> bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one that 
>>> drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so I 
>>> picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
>>> interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
>>> shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
>>> worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Eric Caron 
>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, all,
 
 I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
 them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
 "area to drop may be hidden", or "item to be dragged no longer in view". 
 I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when not 
 in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
 
 TiA,
 Teresa
 
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Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of 
Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain 
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two 
sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum 
Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers, 
except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.


What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a 
Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever 
stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that 
it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the 
13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't 
tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal 
price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under 
warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already 
have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. 
What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now 
this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called 
Apple and asked them.


Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: new member with several questions.

[jim rawls]

Well, my wife wants to get the one to one class, and I talked to one of the 3 
stores we have near us here in Southern California, and one store in particular 
said they would be willing to take me on, and they have a blind customer 
already. That's the store in Pasadena. Jim


From: Red.Falcon 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: new member with several questions.


Hi Jim! 
Well I suppose you could ask at your particular Apple store what there 
knowledge is and your other half would also be able to put it to good use if 
needed!
So as long as they [at the store] can fit you in I understand you can have 
quite a lot of 1 to 1 help!
And just one more thing!
If your particular store are not very knowledgable about vo then you signing up 
might help them learn!
Or you might find they are already quite good!
hth Colin


On 28 Jul 2011, at 06:39, jim rawls wrote:


  Thanks Christopher. We'll probably take it. Jim


  From: Christopher Peppel 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:29 PM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Subject: Re: new member with several questions.


  Hi Jim, 


  I took the one-on-one course at the Apple store and it was definitely worth 
it.  In the store I went to, the folks were very friendly and helpful.  It was 
probably the best money I spent.


  Chris

  On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:11 PM, jim rawls wrote:


Hi All,
My wife and I will be buying a mac pro computer in the next little while. I 
am clueless about where to start to learn the mac with voice over. I have been 
a jaws user on windows computer since the year 2000, but think it is time to 
take the plunge and learn the mac with voice over. So, question. Would it help 
us to get the one to one program offered at the Mac store with our purchase? 
My wife is sighted, I am not. 
Second, where can I find the list of commands to use on the Mac? 
Thirdly, is the new lion commands up to learn?
I can't think f any more things now, but no doubt will, so if you can give 
this clueless potential user of the mac pro some hints on where to start, it 
would be greatly appreciated. 
thanks for your help.
Jim


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RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Daniel Miller]

Hi Chris,

You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they could
possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only thing
you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level model
is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture solid
state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
dot 0 release is always perfect.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of
Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.

What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a
Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that
it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the
13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under
warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. 
What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now
this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
Apple and asked them.

Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: Choosing a Mac Book Air

[Bryan Jones]

Hello Garth,

I have a late 2010 11 inch macbook air and can give my opinions. I've never 
tried the 13 inch Air, so I won't give an opinion on it.
Regarding RAM: I think there are several good reasons to purchase it with 4 GB 
of RAM.
Reason one: Unlike most computers, RAM on the Air is not upgradable after 
you've purchased it. It is soldered to the system board and cannot be expanded. 
Perhaps an enterprising third party will come along with a method of upgrading 
RAM but as of yet this has not happened to the best of my knowledge.
Reason two: Lion's minimum RAM requirement is two GB. It's probably a good idea 
to have more than the minimum even if you only plan to do basic web surfing, 
email and skype..
Reason three: If you're considering the only model that comes with 2GB RAM, I 
assume that also means you're considering the 64 GB SSD that comes with that 
base model. Apple's retail price is US $100 to bump that base model up to 4GB. 
However, if you bypass the base model and go with the higher-level model, you 
will get both the additional 2 GB of RAM plus a 128 GB SSD for not a lot more 
money, especially if you shop around at vendors such as macmall and amazon 
where you can find better pricing. While I would normally also recommend 
looking at Apple's online refurb store, in this case I think the reported 
performance improvements of the newest Air probably outweigh the small price 
difference offered by purchasing a last-generation refurbished Air.

Regarding Zoom: I used Zoom extensively in the past when my vision was better, 
and I still use it sometimes with my 24 inch external monitor. For getting out 
of tricky situations, I find Zoom is fine on the 11 inch screen. Try it in the 
store and see what you think. You can zoom the heck out of most things. If 
you're like me and cannot see anything on a white background, you might want to 
also try reversing the video to white-on-black. The Zoom, color and contrast 
options can all be found and quickly toggled in the Universal Access panel of 
System Preferences. If you decide to attach an external monitor, you can do 
this through the new Thunderbolt port which actually doubles as a mini 
DisplayPort, thus allowing you to use Apple's variety of adapters to connect to 
VGA, DVI and I think HDMI displays.

HTH,
Bryan

On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Garth Humphreys wrote:
> I am trying to decide which Mac Book Air to buy.  I would love to hear the 
> experiences of those of you who use the zoom feature with VO.  I have been 
> trying the air out at our local Apple store and am trying to decide between 
> the 11 inch and the 13 inch models.
> 
> Firstly, do you all think that it is important to get 4  Gb RAM or would 2 Gb 
> be fine with VO.  Keep in mind that the Air would primarily be used for email 
> and browsing. At times I will be using the Air for skype and will want to be 
> able to record the audio.
> 
> Next, how well does the Zoom feature work. The reason for asking is that I am 
> trying to evaluate the value of spending an extra $100 or so for the extra 
> screen realestate of the 13 inch.  My sight is poor enough that I would 
> probably only use the screen to help get out of those tricky situations where 
> seeing the screen makes it easier.  I hope this makes sence to some of you.

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Re: Using gmail web interface

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Garth!
Well I think I can help with the quick nav thingy!
Instead of using the up down arrows try just the right one!
That should take you through each link until you get to the sign out one!
And I've got a track pad here so I'll just go and see what I can come up with! 
[ I need the practice!]
hth Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 14:19, Garth Humphreys wrote:

> Hi Colin
> 
> Thanks for the response. I can understand your directions. I will try the VO 
> + U option tomorrow when in store.  
> 
> When I tried it last time, I was able to find my name on the web interface. 
> The Apple rep could see on screen that the sign out link came up on screen 
> when I selected the link with my name however neither of us could get VO to 
> then go to the sign out  link.   BTW I tried both VO+space and the quick nav 
> up / down arrows to select the my name link.
> 
> Apart from this issue I found that it was really natural to be able to 
> navigate the web with the track pad commander but there is also a lot that 
> will take some getting use to.   
> 
> Thanks 
> Garth
> 
> On 28/07/2011, at 10:40 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Garth!
>> OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
>> under that options!
>> When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
>> This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
>> like your profile!
>> You should find the sign out link there as well!
>> You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is 
>> set on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
>> So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
>> narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
>> So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will 
>> select that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
>> There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
>> your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
>> vo+space on it!
>> hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
>> Colin
>> 
>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Garth
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
 From: Garth Humphreys 
 Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
 To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
 Subject: Using gmail web interface
 
 Hi 
 
 I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been 
 playing with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail account 
 in store and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
 
 The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu 
 that dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not work 
 out how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to log out 
 for me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't work it out. 
 As I don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very inexperienced at using 
 the Mac.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Garth
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Ronald McEwan]

Why do you believe that they will stop servicing your White macbook?  


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of 
> Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain 
> macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two 
> sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum 
> Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers, 
> except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.
> 
> What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a 
> Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever 
> stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that 
> it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the 
> 13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't 
> tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal 
> price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under 
> warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already 
> have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. 
> What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now 
> this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called 
> Apple and asked them.
> 
> Does anyone know?
> 
> Chris.
> 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. 
But it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's 
still being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get 
your MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.


Geoff.

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Re: strange behavior with Lion

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

It sounds to me more like a hardware issue than a software issue.  Those things 
are usually related but when taking everything you said/did, it sounds more 
like a hardware issue to me as it regained proper functionality after a 
Shutdown/Startup.  I would reset the PRAM though just to lear any software 
glitches stuck there.  If you're not familiar how to do this, simply restart 
your Mac and when the startup chime sounds, hold down the cmd key, the option 
key, the "r" key and the "p" key simultaneously.  Yes, it's a awkward 
combination but what I do is hold down the cmd-option with my left thumb and 
then the "r" with my left index finger and the "p" with my right pinky.  When 
you hold this down as the startup chime sounds, the screen will do some funny 
things then the startup chime will sound again.  Let the chime sound an extra 
three times past the initial one and then let go of them all.  Things should 
then startup normally.

Let me know if it continues and I'll give you a few other suggestions to help 
determine whether it's Lion or hardware.

Later…
 
On 2011-07-28, at 1:26 AM, Shen wrote:

> So I came home today and thought I do some things on my MacBook Pro,
> such as checking email and browse the internet.
> The Mac booted up, I logged in, everything works fine except my volume
> controls, F11 and F12 don't work. I checked everything and confirmed
> that everything on my keyboard works. Even Fn plus F11 and F12 work
> just fine. I thought perhaps it's my BlueTooth keyboard acting up.
> Keep in mind this never happened with Snow Leopard.
> I reached over to the built-in keyboard in my MacBook Pro. No dice!
> F11 and F12 just refuse to work.
> OK, I thought perhaps the machine needs a restart. Even though it has
> just been booted up after being off the entire day. I'll give it the
> benefit of the doubt.
> I restarted my machine, got to the log in window, provided my
> credentials, and logged in. After reaching the Desktop, I tried the
> volume keys again. Still, they didn't work. This was the most puzzling
> thing to me. Of all the things not to work, it's the volume controls.
> I was able to use VO-M to open the status menu and check the system
> volume. According to the status menu, the System volume is set to
> 100-percent. I know it's not because it would distort my speakers. I
> tried using the arrow keys to adjust the volume in the status menu. It
> wouldn't budge. It stayed at 100-percent. Is that weird or not?
> OK, this time, I decided to give it the cold restart, turning it
> completely off, then on.
> After restarting a second time, my volume controls came back.
> Before any of you question me whether I have a functioning keyboard or
> not, let me end this message by tell ing you that this has never
> happened before when I was running Snow Leopard. And come to think of
> it, a similar incident happened last week, a couple of days after
> installing Lion. But since I was in the process of rebooting,I didn't
> bother to stop and investigate. That time, everything did not work
> except for the volume buttons. After restarting, everything came back
> to normal so I didn't think much of it.
> 
> So has anyone experienced this before?
> Does anyone have any guesses whether this is just a glitch in Lion,
> having upgraded from Snow Leopard? Will a clean install of Lion get
> rid of these little annoyances?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Shen
> goalb...@gmail.com
> 
> -- 
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> 

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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Re: voiceover bug

[Tim Kilburn]

I used to have that happen in SL right after the "you need to plug your Mac in" 
dialog would appear.  I usually had to turn VO off then on again more than once 
and it would fix it.  If that still doesn't work, try restarting your Mac.

Later…

On 2011-07-28, at 6:36 AM, chad baker wrote:

> hi has anyone experienced vo not going to menu bars
> it will read just apple and nothing else
> i tried turning vo off and on
> also its slow typing with alex 
> he needs a boost
> thanks
> 
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> 

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

No optical drive, and not enough HD space are the two deal breakers for me. 
Plus the guy at my local Apple store said if the O S crashes I have to send 
it in for repair, as with no optical drive there is no way to restore the O 
S yourself.  When I pointed out a U S B  CD drive, he said in theory you'd 
think that would work, but it won't boot frm a U S B CD drive.  He said even 
going into open firmware and configuring things wouldn't do it.  Finally, he 
said no microphone nor eyesite web cam, which for me is enough major 
dealbreaker.


I dono if I trust the credibility of any of this, but if that all is true, 
then, gag me with a spoon!  Not only this, but $700 less than a MBP?  this 
guy told me that the two models of MBA's ran for $1200 each.


Again, I am not saying that I necessarily believe all of this, but if it's 
true, then, ee, gacks!


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel Miller" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.



Hi Chris,

You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they 
could

possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only 
thing

you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level 
model
is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture 
solid

state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
dot 0 release is always perfect.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release 
of

Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.

What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not 
a

Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say 
that
it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even 
the

13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something 
under

warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product.
What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, 
now

this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
Apple and asked them.

Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I didn't say they would stop servicing it.  I said, read my e-mail again 
please, that god forbid, if I ever had to get it replaced entirely as it was 
nonreparable.  Again, God forbid that day, but we have to face the reality, 
that it is technology, and technology can indeed! do some strange things 
when it wants to.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ronald McEwan" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.


Why do you believe that they will stop servicing your White macbook?


In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release 
of Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white 
plain macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either 
the two sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the 
Eluminum Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for 
newcomers, except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my 
question.


What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not 
a Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever 
stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say 
that it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not 
even the 13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need. 
So, don't tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're 
at equal price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for 
something under warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing 
the one we already have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit 
making a good product. What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the 
accessibility bugs in Lion, now this?  I hope my friend's assumption is 
incorrect, but he clamed he called Apple and asked them.


Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

In addition to jeff's comments, it's not worth speculating on what Apple may or 
may not do if your MacBook crashed.  Suggesting that they'll make you pay extra 
money for a Pro or make you accept a MBA as a replacement is inaccurate 
speculation.  Giving them a bad wrap for something that hasn't even happened or 
may not even be close to the truth is unfair.  Wait and see what they do if the 
situation arises then either comment or praise.

Later…

On 2011-07-28, at 8:32 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. But 
> it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's still being 
> manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get your MacBook 
> serviced for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Geoff.
> 
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> 

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Aa.  OK, so it's only now for educational purposes, ok, then that tells me, 
they should be able to replace it wstill if it be an absolute last resort. 
that's heartenning to know.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Geoff Shang" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.



Hi,

It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. 
But it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's 
still being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get 
your MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.


Geoff.

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RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Daniel Miller]

First of all, that guy's an idiot. The cheapest MBA runs for the same price
as the macbook. And yes, it has a microphone and camera. Also, each air
comes with a USB drive that contains your software for restore.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

No optical drive, and not enough HD space are the two deal breakers for me. 
Plus the guy at my local Apple store said if the O S crashes I have to send
it in for repair, as with no optical drive there is no way to restore the O
S yourself.  When I pointed out a U S B  CD drive, he said in theory you'd
think that would work, but it won't boot frm a U S B CD drive.  He said even
going into open firmware and configuring things wouldn't do it.  Finally, he
said no microphone nor eyesite web cam, which for me is enough major
dealbreaker.

I dono if I trust the credibility of any of this, but if that all is true,
then, gag me with a spoon!  Not only this, but $700 less than a MBP?  this
guy told me that the two models of MBA's ran for $1200 each.

Again, I am not saying that I necessarily believe all of this, but if it's
true, then, ee, gacks!

Chris.

- Original Message -
From: "Daniel Miller" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.


> Hi Chris,
>
> You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
> Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they 
> could
> possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
> though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
> as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only 
> thing
> you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
> of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
> be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level 
> model
> is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture 
> solid
> state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
> that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
> As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
> dot 0 release is always perfect.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
> Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
>
> OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release 
> of
> Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
> macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
> sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
> Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
> except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.
>
> What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not 
> a
> Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
> stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say 
> that
> it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even 
> the
> 13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
> tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
> price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something 
> under
> warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
> have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product.
> What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, 
> now
> this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
> Apple and asked them.
>
> Does anyone know?
>
> Chris.
>
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To the Moderators

[Ronald McEwan]

Hi, 

It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all.  I 
am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
accessibility but apple in general.  

I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted input 
from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I am 
considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  

Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 



In the Journey, 

Ron

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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I was having the same exact problem you were having with the last mailbox in my 
mailbox list until just now.  I pressed the zoom button and both the favorites 
bar and mailbox I wanted to drag were in in view I guess

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

I think the problem I'm having is not knowing when something isn't visible. I 
will probably have to get my sighted husband to help me. The folder I want to 
move is at the very bottom of the list, about as far away from the favorites 
bar as possible. I get a consistent "not in view" message when I try to drag 
it, and I can't seem to move it anywhere else, either.

Thanks,
Teresa
On Jul 28, 2011, at 3:40 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't think this makes a difference at all.  As long as both the place 
> where your marking and dragging are visible on the screen, cursor tracking 
> doesn't matter.  I just turned cursor tracking off and was able to drag and 
> drop a folder to the favorites bar.
> 
> hth
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shen wrote:
> 
> I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, 
> that you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
> So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. Then 
> use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
> Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites 
> bar.
> To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press 
> VO-Comma.
> If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
> that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
> If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
> press VO-Greater Than.
> 
> hth
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
>> 
>> Teresa
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Teresa,
>>> 
>>> I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
>>> bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one that 
>>> drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so I 
>>> picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
>>> interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
>>> shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
>>> worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Eric Caron 
>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, all,
 
 I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
 them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
 "area to drop may be hidden", or "item to be dragged no longer in view". 
 I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when not 
 in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
 
 TiA,
 Teresa
 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

how do you know they don't have some white macbooks in reserve just for the 
reason you stated?

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of 
Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain 
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two sizes 
of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum Macbook Pro.  
Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers, except the price 
will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.

What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a 
Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever stops 
working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that it did.  
I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the 13 inch 
model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't tell me I'd 
be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal price, or pay more 
to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under warranty, and 
furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already have.  It's not 
our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. What is Apple's deal 
lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now this?  I hope my 
friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called Apple and asked them.

Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Ricardo Walker]

I don't they would come out with a replacement for the white macbook.  They got 
rid of it because know was buying it.  So why would they make another one just 
like it.  I don't see why someone would want a white macbook over a macbook air.

JMO

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Daniel Miller wrote:

Hi Chris,

You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they could
possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only thing
you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level model
is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture solid
state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
dot 0 release is always perfect.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of
Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.

What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a
Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that
it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the
13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under
warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. 
What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now
this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
Apple and asked them.

Does anyone know?

Chris.

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Re: Voice over lag and other lion issues

[Krister Ekstrom]

Ok, i may be naive to the point of stupidness here, but i hope and pray to God 
that we will be free from scripting on the VO platform. One of the reasons why 
i switched from PC to Mac was the fact that not only did we have to pay a 
horrible amount of money for screen readers and the like, but sometimes, we 
even had to pay a ridiculous sum of money just because we ourselves couldn't 
adapt the screen reader to work with our programs, because we needed to be 
programmers to do this. That left the field open for people who did scripts 
that sometimes worked and other times didn't but we had to pay them still. I do 
not want to see this on the Mac platform.
Of course it would be nice to have programs work the way we wanted it, but i 
don't want to pay 1.5 times more for the same app as my sighted collegues use, 
period.
/Krister

27 jul 2011 kl. 11:02 skrev Luca:

> 
> Hi,
> Some important things i cannot still do  with vo are wordprocessing
> (tables, items, titles, footnotes and so on), easy navigation in
> number (se t title row, column row , auto reading  info when you move
> from  cell to  cell ecc).
> There are also some very useful features in other screen reader  still
> not   implemented: continuous reading  with fast skipping of elements,
> for example.
> And what about  scripting? ok activities are a  step forward,  but
> still we are not there..
> 
> You wrote:
> I would also ask, what does voiceover not do that you need it to do? I
> would say it does most things the windows screen readers do, and in
> some ways does
> many of them better. On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Ricardo Walker
> wrote: - Nascondi testo citato- Mostra testo citato -> Hi, > In
> regards to the iWork stuff,
> 
> On 24 Lug, 20:49, Chris Snyder  wrote:
>> Well said. Apple will sort it out. Until then, I've reverted to Snow 
>> Leopard, and I'll keep it until some updates to Lion have come out. Using a 
>> March 2011 Macbook Pro 13 inch with the I5 processor, and I went from 37 
>> seconds to boot up in Snow Leopard, to 1 minute and 25 to boot up in Lion.
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On Jul 22, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Missy Hope wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Amen! Very well said! I agree 100 percent with everything in this message. 
>>> Bottom line, we're paying the price for pouncing
>>> on a new OS the day it came out. I'm sure that sooner or later, (hopefully 
>>> sooner), Apple will fix all of these issues.
>>> Good night, all!
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
>>> Gilland
>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:50 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Voice over lag and other lion issues
>>> Importance: High
>> 
>>> I wouldn't so much say that they are losing commitment, as much as I'd say,
>>> they seem to be getting very sloppy.  I mean, ok, here's my thing.  I
>>> totally am with all you all in saying everyone just chill.  the only reason
>>> I'm keeping my stance so strong on this is the fact that look at this.  I
>>> mean, this looks like we should still be running a beta with all these bugs.
>>> come on, lookit!  We have some beta testers on here, do we not?  Admit it,
>>> did you all see any of these bugs?  If not, then wow.  I apologize.  Really
>>> I do.  I'm then out of lign severely, and for that, I'm ashamed of myself,
>>> but, really, think about this for justa minute.  OK, you all can shoot me, I
>>> know you may want me to shut up, as does a few people who we won't mention,
>>> but, if they and all you others will please I beg you, just! for once, hear
>>> me out for a second.
>> 
>>> If you will, and will at least acknowledge me, then I'll perhaps shut up.
>> 
>>> Just let me have this for a sec.
>> 
>>> Look, let's addres this from a fact stand point rather than a Chris's
>>> opinion standpoint, ok?
>> 
>>> this way it's more fair.
>> 
>>> 1.  We all agree this is a new O S, right?
>> 
>>> 2.  We all agree that things are very buggy in many areas, right?  Uh dab
>>> dab dap? Holdit!  I'm not done, listen to me!  I'm still talking.  You'll
>>> get your chance.  I didn't ask you all if th3e problems can be addressed in
>>> a software update.  I'll address that in a second.  right now, we're just
>>> looking at the facts.  OK?  So I repeat:
>> 
>>> 2.  Is it not true, that we all agree that lots of things are buggy?  Yes,
>>> or no.
>> 
>>> 3.  Do we all agree that these are problems that should have probably been
>>> addressed at least to some extent during the beta cycle before the official
>>> release?  Yes or no>?
>> 
>>> 4.  Do we all agree that most of these bugs can be delt with and tollerated
>>> to some degree?
>> 
>>> OK then.
>> 
>>> I think we all agree on all the above, so why such hostility toward me and
>>> everyone else on list by some members.  Look, I feel you all's frustration,
>>> we just want things to work, but we also are getting frustrated at the

Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Joel Zimba]

Can't PC owner.  It's been beaten in to us for decades now.

Relax, that thing about putting the customer first... it's true.   It'll 
all be just fine.



On 7/28/2011 11:05 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

Hi,

how do you know they don't have some white macbooks in reserve just for the 
reason you stated?

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter&  Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of 
Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain 
macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two sizes 
of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum Macbook Pro.  
Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers, except the price 
will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.

What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a 
Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever stops 
working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that it did.  
I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the 13 inch 
model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't tell me I'd 
be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal price, or pay more 
to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under warranty, and 
furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already have.  It's not 
our falt that they decided to quit making a good product. What is Apple's deal 
lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now this?  I hope my 
friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called Apple and asked them.

Does anyone know?

Chris.



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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

Instead of listening to what someone told you, you might have been better 
served just to look on the Apple website.  The Macbook air starts at the same 
$1000 the white macbook did.  And its faster, does have a built in mic and web 
cam, and you can get up to a 250 GB ssd installed.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

No optical drive, and not enough HD space are the two deal breakers for me. 
Plus the guy at my local Apple store said if the O S crashes I have to send it 
in for repair, as with no optical drive there is no way to restore the O S 
yourself.  When I pointed out a U S B  CD drive, he said in theory you'd think 
that would work, but it won't boot frm a U S B CD drive.  He said even going 
into open firmware and configuring things wouldn't do it.  Finally, he said no 
microphone nor eyesite web cam, which for me is enough major dealbreaker.

I dono if I trust the credibility of any of this, but if that all is true, 
then, gag me with a spoon!  Not only this, but $700 less than a MBP?  this guy 
told me that the two models of MBA's ran for $1200 each.

Again, I am not saying that I necessarily believe all of this, but if it's 
true, then, ee, gacks!

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.


> Hi Chris,
> 
> You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
> Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they could
> possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
> though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
> as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only thing
> you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
> of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
> be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level model
> is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture solid
> state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
> that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
> As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
> dot 0 release is always perfect.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
> Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
> 
> OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of
> Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
> macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
> sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
> Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
> except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.
> 
> What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a
> Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
> stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that
> it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the
> 13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
> tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
> price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under
> warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
> have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product.
> What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now
> this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
> Apple and asked them.
> 
> Does anyone know?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> --
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: strange behavior with Lion

[carolyn Haas]

Hi Shen:
I did have this experience---However, mine was only during the process of 
installing Lion.  During that time, a very dreadful, poor-sounding voice with 
almost indiscernible speech would respond to my keystrokes.  I couldn't budge 
volume at that point either.  I was afraid Alex had been severely disfigured, 
and started wondering how I'd get Snow leopard back.  Fortunately, once the 
install was complete, and the computer restarted twice, Alex was back in good 
form, and the volume keys worked as usual.

At the time, I just assumed it had to do with install, and allowing for speech 
with minimal disruption to the system during installation.  
Beyond that, I'm clueless why volume should be acting out.

Carolyn
On Jul 28, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Shen wrote:

> So I came home today and thought I do some things on my MacBook Pro,
> such as checking email and browse the internet.
> The Mac booted up, I logged in, everything works fine except my volume
> controls, F11 and F12 don't work. I checked everything and confirmed
> that everything on my keyboard works. Even Fn plus F11 and F12 work
> just fine. I thought perhaps it's my BlueTooth keyboard acting up.
> Keep in mind this never happened with Snow Leopard.
> I reached over to the built-in keyboard in my MacBook Pro. No dice!
> F11 and F12 just refuse to work.
> OK, I thought perhaps the machine needs a restart. Even though it has
> just been booted up after being off the entire day. I'll give it the
> benefit of the doubt.
> I restarted my machine, got to the log in window, provided my
> credentials, and logged in. After reaching the Desktop, I tried the
> volume keys again. Still, they didn't work. This was the most puzzling
> thing to me. Of all the things not to work, it's the volume controls.
> I was able to use VO-M to open the status menu and check the system
> volume. According to the status menu, the System volume is set to
> 100-percent. I know it's not because it would distort my speakers. I
> tried using the arrow keys to adjust the volume in the status menu. It
> wouldn't budge. It stayed at 100-percent. Is that weird or not?
> OK, this time, I decided to give it the cold restart, turning it
> completely off, then on.
> After restarting a second time, my volume controls came back.
> Before any of you question me whether I have a functioning keyboard or
> not, let me end this message by tell ing you that this has never
> happened before when I was running Snow Leopard. And come to think of
> it, a similar incident happened last week, a couple of days after
> installing Lion. But since I was in the process of rebooting,I didn't
> bother to stop and investigate. That time, everything did not work
> except for the volume buttons. After restarting, everything came back
> to normal so I didn't think much of it.
> 
> So has anyone experienced this before?
> Does anyone have any guesses whether this is just a glitch in Lion,
> having upgraded from Snow Leopard? Will a clean install of Lion get
> rid of these little annoyances?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Shen
> goalb...@gmail.com
> 
> -- 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Bryan Jones]

I too am just about ready to unsubscribe. Lately the quantity of low-quality 
posts has increased dramatically which has the unfortunate side-effect of 
making it difficult to find the quality posts. I've actually added a mail rule 
to automatically send one particular high-volume poster's messages directly to 
the trash. Again, perhaps I'm just a grumpy old guy who is living in the past 
where there was a standard email list etiquette that was known, followed, and 
enforced by Mods and Members alike. Perhaps the new way of doing things is more 
akin to Facebook where some people need to tell the world every time they've 
passed wind, and other people need to thank them publicly for sharing. If that 
is going to be the new reality going forward on this list, I'd appreciate if 
the Mods would make that publicly known.

Cheers,
Bryan

On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all.  
> I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
> accessibility but apple in general.  
> 
> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted input 
> from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I am 
> considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
> 
> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 

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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Good Jesus H Christ guys!  Give me a break for god sake!  I wasn't 
speculating!  I asked what they would do, no more no less.


If all you all think I do is complain, maybe I should leave the list.  I'm 
trying to help and ask educated questions, but it seems it's not worth me 
waisting my time.



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Kilburn" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.


Hi,

In addition to jeff's comments, it's not worth speculating on what Apple may 
or may not do if your MacBook crashed.  Suggesting that they'll make you pay 
extra money for a Pro or make you accept a MBA as a replacement is 
inaccurate speculation.  Giving them a bad wrap for something that hasn't 
even happened or may not even be close to the truth is unfair.  Wait and see 
what they do if the situation arises then either comment or praise.


Later…

On 2011-07-28, at 8:32 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:


Hi,

It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. 
But it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's 
still being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get 
your MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.


Geoff.

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Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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Re: Using gmail web interface

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Garth!
Yes it's that annoying brit again! :]
Well I hope this is not to much info!
So I noticed you said about quick nav select [up\down] and that reminded me 
that you can select how quick nav navigates with up\right arrows together this 
will go through the same options that are listed under vo+u!
So if qn is on headers up\right arrows will change it to links!
>From then on if you down arrow you will go through each link and get to the 
>sign out link that way!
Of course up\left will take you through the options the other way!
Now for the track pad I found doing a 1 finger flick to the right also took me 
through each link and got me to the sign out link OK!
If this does not work on the Mac you are trying out it might be that the mouse 
cursor is not following the vo cursor in settings!
I'm new to the track pad myself so as yet do not know the right command to 
select an item using the track pad!
Hope this was not to boring and you are still awake!
Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 14:19, Garth Humphreys wrote:

> Hi Colin
> 
> Thanks for the response. I can understand your directions. I will try the VO 
> + U option tomorrow when in store.  
> 
> When I tried it last time, I was able to find my name on the web interface. 
> The Apple rep could see on screen that the sign out link came up on screen 
> when I selected the link with my name however neither of us could get VO to 
> then go to the sign out  link.   BTW I tried both VO+space and the quick nav 
> up / down arrows to select the my name link.
> 
> Apart from this issue I found that it was really natural to be able to 
> navigate the web with the track pad commander but there is also a lot that 
> will take some getting use to.   
> 
> Thanks 
> Garth
> 
> On 28/07/2011, at 10:40 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Garth!
>> OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
>> under that options!
>> When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
>> This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
>> like your profile!
>> You should find the sign out link there as well!
>> You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is 
>> set on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
>> So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
>> narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
>> So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will 
>> select that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
>> There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
>> your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
>> vo+space on it!
>> hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
>> Colin
>> 
>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Garth
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
 From: Garth Humphreys 
 Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
 To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
 Subject: Using gmail web interface
 
 Hi 
 
 I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been 
 playing with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail account 
 in store and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
 
 The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu 
 that dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not work 
 out how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to log out 
 for me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't work it out. 
 As I don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very inexperienced at using 
 the Mac.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Garth
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Daniel Miller]

Chris,

I'm not a moderator, but I feel I should ask you nicely to calm down. All
we're trying to do is give you informed suggestions as to what you could do
in the event that Apple for some reason won't service your computer.
I highly doubt they won't service it, seeing as it's still being sold to
schools and such, but you may want to look into calling them or checking the
website for that info.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:34 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

Good Jesus H Christ guys!  Give me a break for god sake!  I wasn't
speculating!  I asked what they would do, no more no less.

If all you all think I do is complain, maybe I should leave the list.  I'm
trying to help and ask educated questions, but it seems it's not worth me
waisting my time.


- Original Message -
From: "Tim Kilburn" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.


Hi,

In addition to jeff's comments, it's not worth speculating on what Apple may

or may not do if your MacBook crashed.  Suggesting that they'll make you pay

extra money for a Pro or make you accept a MBA as a replacement is 
inaccurate speculation.  Giving them a bad wrap for something that hasn't 
even happened or may not even be close to the truth is unfair.  Wait and see

what they do if the situation arises then either comment or praise.

Later.

On 2011-07-28, at 8:32 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. 
> But it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's 
> still being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get 
> your MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.
>
> Geoff.
>
> -- 
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>

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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Re: To the Moderators

[carolyn Haas]

Hi Ron:
It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn  and one 
moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because according to 
Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the group was being 
moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of alleged complaints 
and the people who made them, a very positive, almost anything goes approach 
has been adopted.  
Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional  
ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer the 
same approach I do.:)


Take care

CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all.  
> I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
> accessibility but apple in general.  
> 
> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted input 
> from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I am 
> considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
> 
> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Journey, 
> 
> Ron
> 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Chris!
I'm not a mod either!
And I'm not religious but there might be users on the list that are and 
probably to polite to say something!
And if I get into trouble for this [so be it! ]
You might be angry or some other bad words but mind this is a international  
list and some of those people take there beliefs seriously so put your views 
across by all means but choose your words more carefully!
So now you can block me if you like!
Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:41, Daniel Miller wrote:

> Chris,
> 
> I'm not a moderator, but I feel I should ask you nicely to calm down. All
> we're trying to do is give you informed suggestions as to what you could do
> in the event that Apple for some reason won't service your computer.
> I highly doubt they won't service it, seeing as it's still being sold to
> schools and such, but you may want to look into calling them or checking the
> website for that info.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
> Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:34 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
> 
> Good Jesus H Christ guys!  Give me a break for god sake!  I wasn't
> speculating!  I asked what they would do, no more no less.
> 
> If all you all think I do is complain, maybe I should leave the list.  I'm
> trying to help and ask educated questions, but it seems it's not worth me
> waisting my time.
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Kilburn" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In addition to jeff's comments, it's not worth speculating on what Apple may
> 
> or may not do if your MacBook crashed.  Suggesting that they'll make you pay
> 
> extra money for a Pro or make you accept a MBA as a replacement is 
> inaccurate speculation.  Giving them a bad wrap for something that hasn't 
> even happened or may not even be close to the truth is unfair.  Wait and see
> 
> what they do if the situation arises then either comment or praise.
> 
> Later.
> 
> On 2011-07-28, at 8:32 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. 
>> But it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's 
>> still being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get 
>> your MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.
>> 
>> Geoff.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
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a question about an app for the IPhone

[Matt Dierckens]

Hi all.
The college that I am going to in september for radio broadcasting is asking us 
to purchase an app called ver recorder. Does anyone know if this is accessible? 
I emailed the support team and they had no idea what voice over was, so I tried 
to explain it to them. I just don't want to be wasting my money on an app that 
i can either get alternatives for or find a better solution.
Thanks in advance.
Matt

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a question about signitures

[Matt Dierckens]

I have a question about signatures. How would i go about creating one and 
making it my default signature? The dialog is a bit strange.
Thanks
Matt

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Re: a question about an app for the IPhone

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

What does Ver Recorder do?  Seeing I do a lot of stuff with Radio in 
general, maybe it would be worth me looking into.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Dierckens" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:02 PM
Subject: a question about an app for the IPhone


Hi all.
The college that I am going to in september for radio broadcasting is asking 
us to purchase an app called ver recorder. Does anyone know if this is 
accessible? I emailed the support team and they had no idea what voice over 
was, so I tried to explain it to them. I just don't want to be wasting my 
money on an app that i can either get alternatives for or find a better 
solution.

Thanks in advance.
Matt

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Re: a question about an app for the IPhone

[Matt Dierckens]

its for recording video and audio for on location broadcasting i think.
On 2011-07-28, at 12:07 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> What does Ver Recorder do?  Seeing I do a lot of stuff with Radio in general, 
> maybe it would be worth me looking into.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Matt Dierckens" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:02 PM
> Subject: a question about an app for the IPhone
> 
> 
> Hi all.
> The college that I am going to in september for radio broadcasting is asking 
> us to purchase an app called ver recorder. Does anyone know if this is 
> accessible? I emailed the support team and they had no idea what voice over 
> was, so I tried to explain it to them. I just don't want to be wasting my 
> money on an app that i can either get alternatives for or find a better 
> solution.
> Thanks in advance.
> Matt
> 
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Resolved strange problem with folders

[Allison Manzino]

Hi Carolyn,

Thank you for that, I am able to expand the folders by hitting right arrow. i 
didn't know that was possible. I'm so used to using command O. Thank you, 
Carolyn.

Allison

My birds are winged blessings, they help me soar!


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Re: a question about signitures

[Matthew Campbell]

Hey Matt.
What you have to do is select the account in the left table and then scroll 
over and hit the add button.
Next, you will be in a text box where you can type the name of the signature so 
call it what ever you want.
Finally, go over to the text field and type what you want the signature to say.
Let me know if this doesn't work because I just tried it my self.
Matthew Campbell.

On 2011-07-28, at 12:03 PM, Matt Dierckens wrote:

> I have a question about signatures. How would i go about creating one and 
> making it my default signature? The dialog is a bit strange.
> Thanks
> Matt
> 
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semi-pro list

[carolyn Haas]

Hello list members:
I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, a 
former moderator of the group.
When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were just 
too stringent, and pushing people away.
I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like to 
know if there's any others interested in such.

If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.

My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)

Take care, and thank you for reading.
Carolyn

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Re: a question about signitures

[Matt Dierckens]

Hi matt, it looks like it worked. Thanks much.

sent from my macbook pro

On 2011-07-28, at 12:12 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:

> Hey Matt.
> What you have to do is select the account in the left table and then scroll 
> over and hit the add button.
> Next, you will be in a text box where you can type the name of the signature 
> so call it what ever you want.
> Finally, go over to the text field and type what you want the signature to 
> say.
> Let me know if this doesn't work because I just tried it my self.
> Matthew Campbell.
> 
> On 2011-07-28, at 12:03 PM, Matt Dierckens wrote:
> 
>> I have a question about signatures. How would i go about creating one and 
>> making it my default signature? The dialog is a bit strange.
>> Thanks
>> Matt
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: semi-pro list

[Ray Foret Jr]

So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see the 
former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak frankly, 
it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I first came on 
board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people get very 
agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't respond 
immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world revolts around 
them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though it may perhaps 
seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are trying to get used to 
this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us like it and others have 
issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are running rather too high to 
suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  Why?  Simple.  I know that, 
eventually, this too shall pass and the list will return to normal.  At least, 
that sure better happen.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1



On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:

> Hello list members:
> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, a 
> former moderator of the group.
> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
> to know if there's any others interested in such.
> 
> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
> 
> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
> 
> Take care, and thank you for reading.
> Carolyn
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: semi-pro list

[Matt Dierckens]

That would be a good idea. I've only been on this list since april, it started 
out very great, and now it seems like some foks are just getting angry at one 
thing after another.
sent from my macbook pro

On 2011-07-28, at 12:16 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:

> Hello list members:
> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, a 
> former moderator of the group.
> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
> to know if there's any others interested in such.
> 
> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
> 
> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
> 
> Take care, and thank you for reading.
> Carolyn
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: semi-pro list

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Carolyn, the only reasobn your mail got through was because I do not know yet 
how to set filters up on the mac side of things, however, I need to clear up 
something.  I highly disagree with a lot of the things you've done when you 
were a mod, no doubt, but let's get something straight here, I don't know about 
others, but, me personally, I do, not, hate you!  I hate the way you handle the 
list, yes, but I do not, never have and never will! hate you as a person.  And 
if it came across as such hince your term, quote: hate mail, then I profusely 
apologize.  I never meant to come across that way, but I think all of us would 
agree we don't hate you, so please don't be so hard on yourself.  YOu tried.  
That's the important thing.  The fact you realized the moderation wasn't 
working, and vollenteered on your own part to step down took a lot of courage 
to do, and for that you should be commedned.  You saw it wasn't working, so in 
my view you did the right thing.

Though I am not interested in your new list, I had to say this, as you deserve 
to know you're at least not hated.  Hate is such a strong word.  I think truely 
the only persons I hate are my x-wife and maybe one person in my family.  LOL!  
As if anyone cared to know that.  :)

Take care, and God bless.

Chris.
On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:16 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:

> Hello list members:
> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, a 
> former moderator of the group.
> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
> to know if there's any others interested in such.
> 
> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
> 
> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
> 
> Take care, and thank you for reading.
> Carolyn
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: semi-pro list

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I agree with Ray.  The list will eventually return.

Also, Ray, I never suspected you were picking on me directly.  You said nothing 
in your mail to indicate such.  Don't worry about it, my friend, you took a 
stance in saying what you felt, and that's ok.  It's your right.  Even if you 
were picking on me, I would not have liked you doing so on list, but reality 
is, it's your right.

Chris.

On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:

> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people 
> get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't 
> respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world 
> revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though 
> it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are 
> trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us 
> like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are 
> running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  
> Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and the list will 
> return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
> 
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
> 
>> Hello list members:
>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>> a former moderator of the group.
>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
>> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
>> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>> 
>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>> 
>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>> 
>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>> Carolyn
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: semi-pro list

[Rose Morales]

Hi all,
I've been on this list for a long time, and though I've been very quiet, I've 
not neglected it. I've been watching this list pretty much every day. I've not 
said much because I have no questions to ask and nothing really to say. My 
belief is that if you have nothing upbuilding to say on a list, just don't say 
it. And I try to stick by that. But now I think it's time to chime in here, 
because I've seen a lot of negative posts lately. I'm hoping I can bring some 
balance.

Guys, I don't think Carolin intended to start a do you like or hate this list 
discussion. Even in the days of Jeff and Cara being the primary mods, they 
would suggest that feedback go to them. So I am not writing to contribute my 
own thoughts along this line. Yeah, there are negative things I could say too, 
but think about this. Are your negative comments really helping anyone? Sure 
you might find others who agree with you, but it's only causing division. If 
you guys have a problem with this list, do your part to be an example. Be what 
you want other list members to be like. When people join a list, they observe 
how others post and decide how they will proceed based on said posts. The more 
high quality posts there are here, the more likely it will be that other people 
will find themselves posting using the same conduct and standards. THe more 
high quality posts they see, the more they'll want to post and contribute.

I hope I've given you all some food for thought.
Rose

On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> I agree with Ray.  The list will eventually return.
> 
> Also, Ray, I never suspected you were picking on me directly.  You said 
> nothing in your mail to indicate such.  Don't worry about it, my friend, you 
> took a stance in saying what you felt, and that's ok.  It's your right.  Even 
> if you were picking on me, I would not have liked you doing so on list, but 
> reality is, it's your right.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> 
>> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
>> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
>> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
>> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people 
>> get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't 
>> respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world 
>> revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though 
>> it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are 
>> trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us 
>> like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are 
>> running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  
>> Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and the list 
>> will return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello list members:
>>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>>> a former moderator of the group.
>>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of 
>>> people had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations 
>>> were just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>>> 
>>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>>> 
>>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>>> 
>>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>>> Carolyn
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: semi-pro list

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Rose,

I couldn't have said things better had I wanted to!  Thanks for the comments.  
Greatly appreciate them.

Chris.

On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Rose Morales wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've been on this list for a long time, and though I've been very quiet, I've 
> not neglected it. I've been watching this list pretty much every day. I've 
> not said much because I have no questions to ask and nothing really to say. 
> My belief is that if you have nothing upbuilding to say on a list, just don't 
> say it. And I try to stick by that. But now I think it's time to chime in 
> here, because I've seen a lot of negative posts lately. I'm hoping I can 
> bring some balance.
> 
> Guys, I don't think Carolin intended to start a do you like or hate this list 
> discussion. Even in the days of Jeff and Cara being the primary mods, they 
> would suggest that feedback go to them. So I am not writing to contribute my 
> own thoughts along this line. Yeah, there are negative things I could say 
> too, but think about this. Are your negative comments really helping anyone? 
> Sure you might find others who agree with you, but it's only causing 
> division. If you guys have a problem with this list, do your part to be an 
> example. Be what you want other list members to be like. When people join a 
> list, they observe how others post and decide how they will proceed based on 
> said posts. The more high quality posts there are here, the more likely it 
> will be that other people will find themselves posting using the same conduct 
> and standards. THe more high quality posts they see, the more they'll want to 
> post and contribute.
> 
> I hope I've given you all some food for thought.
> Rose
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Ray.  The list will eventually return.
>> 
>> Also, Ray, I never suspected you were picking on me directly.  You said 
>> nothing in your mail to indicate such.  Don't worry about it, my friend, you 
>> took a stance in saying what you felt, and that's ok.  It's your right.  
>> Even if you were picking on me, I would not have liked you doing so on list, 
>> but reality is, it's your right.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>> 
>>> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
>>> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
>>> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
>>> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain 
>>> people get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) 
>>> doesn't respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the 
>>> world revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; 
>>> though it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us 
>>> are trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of 
>>> us like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions 
>>> are running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining 
>>> though.  Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and 
>>> the list will return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>> 
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>> 
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>> 
>>> Facebook:
>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
>>> 
 Hello list members:
 I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm 
 Carolyn, a former moderator of the group.
 When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of 
 people had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my 
 expectations were just too stringent, and pushing people away.
 I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
 starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would 
 like to know if there's any others interested in such.
 
 If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
 
 My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, 
 as I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
 
 Take care, and thank you for reading.
 Carolyn
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionarie

Re: semi-pro list

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
I'm just curious, what do you mean by "simi professional"?
Thanks, Courtney
On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:

> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people 
> get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't 
> respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world 
> revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though 
> it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are 
> trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us 
> like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are 
> running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  
> Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and the list will 
> return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
> 
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
> 
>> Hello list members:
>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>> a former moderator of the group.
>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
>> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
>> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>> 
>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>> 
>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>> 
>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>> Carolyn
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Voice over lag and other lion issues

[Massimo]

In data Giovedì 28 Luglio 2011 17.11.33, Krister Ekstrom 
 ha scritto:

Ok, i may be naive to the point of stupidness here, but i hope and pray to God 
that we will be free from scripting on the VO platform.


As you wish. What I need to have done is automatic reading of incoming 
messages in skype active chat window. Right now, if I want to read 
incoming chat messages, I need to move VO cursor, then I have to 
interact with the HTML content, then I have to move to the last message. 
In alternative, I have to unlink VO cursor from the  system focus and 
still I am not able to have incoming messages read automatically. I need 
to enter commands. I need to know if a paragraph contains footnotes and 
endnotes reference; and, if it does and if I want, I should be able to 
read the note's content without leaving the document text area. When in 
a spreadsheet, I need to define monitor cells on a document base; when 
navigating the cells, I need to know if a cell content is a constant or 
the result of a formula again without leaving the spreadsheet itself. 
JAWS, Orca, NVDA, Windows eyes to are scriptable. And it is a very 
powerfull feature. If you want to use that feature, well, it is there; 
if you do not want, just don't. If something is there, you can choose if 
you want to use it or not; if a feature is not available... Yes, I know, 
you can control VO using Apple Script. But there are some limitations 
and they are major limitations too.


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Re: semi-pro list

[carolyn Haas]

Hey Ray:
Don't give me the shove-off quite yet, unless of course, it happens anyhow.:)

Clearly, the style of no management is preferable for some people.  But, I too 
long for a list related to things Apple, access, and not ego driven.

Take care

Carolyn
On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:

> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people 
> get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't 
> respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world 
> revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though 
> it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are 
> trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us 
> like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are 
> running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  
> Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and the list will 
> return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
> 
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
> 
>> Hello list members:
>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>> a former moderator of the group.
>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
>> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
>> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>> 
>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>> 
>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>> 
>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>> Carolyn
>> 
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Re: semi-pro list

[Ronald McEwan]

Chris, 

Here is how to set up filters but I serously doubt you will block her because 
that would mean you wouldn't have the chance to blast her again. 

Go into preferences and set up a rule to send any mail from a given user to 
trash. 



In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Carolyn, the only reasobn your mail got through was because I do not know yet 
> how to set filters up on the mac side of things, however, I need to clear up 
> something.  I highly disagree with a lot of the things you've done when you 
> were a mod, no doubt, but let's get something straight here, I don't know 
> about others, but, me personally, I do, not, hate you!  I hate the way you 
> handle the list, yes, but I do not, never have and never will! hate you as a 
> person.  And if it came across as such hince your term, quote: hate mail, 
> then I profusely apologize.  I never meant to come across that way, but I 
> think all of us would agree we don't hate you, so please don't be so hard on 
> yourself.  YOu tried.  That's the important thing.  The fact you realized the 
> moderation wasn't working, and vollenteered on your own part to step down 
> took a lot of courage to do, and for that you should be commedned.  You saw 
> it wasn't working, so in my view you did the right thing.
> 
> Though I am not interested in your new list, I had to say this, as you 
> deserve to know you're at least not hated.  Hate is such a strong word.  I 
> think truely the only persons I hate are my x-wife and maybe one person in my 
> family.  LOL!  As if anyone cared to know that.  :)
> 
> Take care, and God bless.
> 
> Chris.
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:16 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:
> 
>> Hello list members:
>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>> a former moderator of the group.
>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of people 
>> had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations were 
>> just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>> 
>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>> 
>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>> 
>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>> Carolyn
>> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi.

If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I can 
tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about anything 
unless its Mac related.

I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has as it 
was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other list.

Kawal. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:

> Hi Ron:
> It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn  and 
> one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
> according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
> group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of 
> alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, almost 
> anything goes approach has been adopted.  
> Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional  
> ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer 
> the same approach I do.:)
> 
> 
> Take care
> 
> CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all.  
>> I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
>> accessibility but apple in general.  
>> 
>> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted input 
>> from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I am 
>> considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
>> 
>> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In the Journey, 
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Ronald McEwan]

So do tell, what is the other list name. 


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I can 
> tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
> anything unless its Mac related.
> 
> I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has as 
> it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other list.
> 
> Kawal. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ron:
>> It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn  and 
>> one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
>> according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
>> group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of 
>> alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, almost 
>> anything goes approach has been adopted.  
>> Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional  
>> ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer 
>> the same approach I do.:)
>> 
>> 
>> Take care
>> 
>> CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, 
>>> 
>>> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all. 
>>>  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
>>> accessibility but apple in general.  
>>> 
>>> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
>>> input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I 
>>> am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
>>> 
>>> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the Journey, 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Mac Access UK.  I think that Anne Robertson is the moderator but I might be 
wrong.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 06:47 PM, Ronald McEwan  wrote:

> So do tell, what is the other list name. 
> 
> 
> In the Journey, 
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I can 
>> tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
>> anything unless its Mac related.
>> 
>> I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has as 
>> it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other list.
>> 
>> Kawal. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ron:
>>> It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn  and 
>>> one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
>>> according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
>>> group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of 
>>> alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, almost 
>>> anything goes approach has been adopted.  
>>> Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional 
>>>  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer 
>>> the same approach I do.:)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take care
>>> 
>>> CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, 
 
 It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
 free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do 
 with Mac accessibility but apple in general.  
 
 I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
 input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I 
 am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
 
 Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 
 
 
 
 In the Journey, 
 
 Ron
 
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 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

He's probably talking about Mac4theblind.  I'm on it, but I almost never 
post there.  Not because I can't do so, it's just I felt I really wasn't 
getting near the help on that list that I have and still am getting on this 
list.  I don't think that they're many members on the other list, actually. 
I know Sarah Alowami's there, and maybe like 10 or 20 others that regularly 
post.  Trust me, it's really not worth it in my personal opinion.  Again 
though, that's only my opinion.  If you'd like, Ronald, I can try to find 
the subscription info for you.  I make no guarantees.  I know a friend of 
mine had to help me with finding the sub info, but again, if you would like 
to subscribe, I'll be more than happy to try to figure out the address to do 
so.


Aside that list and the VIPhone list, those are the only lists I know of. 
Apparently there is also a maccessibility list, but I've never admittedly 
tried looking upo the info.


I'll bet you it's probably on

maccessibility.net
though.

You want me to take a look for ya?

Let me know.  glad to help, if I can.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ronald McEwan" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: To the Moderators


So do tell, what is the other list name.


In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:


Hi.

If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I 
can tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
anything unless its Mac related.


I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has 
as it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other 
list.


Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:


Hi Ron:
It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn 
and one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, 
because according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about 
how the group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those 
hundreds of alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very 
positive, almost anything goes approach has been adopted.
Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a 
semi-professional  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I 
guess most don't prefer the same approach I do.:)



Take care

CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:


Hi,

It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to 
do with Mac accessibility but apple in general.


I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, 
I am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.


Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.



In the Journey,

Ron

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Re: To the Moderators

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, that probably explains why I've never heard of the list, being I'm not 
from the UK.  LOL!  Like I say, it's ok, I get enough good resourceful help 
here, so no need to bother joining another list for now at least.  :)


Take care.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kawal Gucukoglu" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: To the Moderators


Mac Access UK.  I think that Anne Robertson is the moderator but I might be 
wrong.


Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 06:47 PM, Ronald McEwan  wrote:


So do tell, what is the other list name.


In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:


Hi.

If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I 
can tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
anything unless its Mac related.


I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has 
as it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other 
list.


Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:


Hi Ron:
It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn 
and one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, 
because according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about 
how the group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those 
hundreds of alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very 
positive, almost anything goes approach has been adopted.
Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a 
semi-professional  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I 
guess most don't prefer the same approach I do.:)



Take care

CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:


Hi,

It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to 
do with Mac accessibility but apple in general.


I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while. 
However, I am considering leaving the list because of its current 
direction.


Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.



In the Journey,

Ron

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[no subject]

[Ronald McEwan]

In the Journey, 

Ron

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Re: semi-pro list

[carolyn Haas]

Hi Courtney:
By semiprofessional, I mean a list where there is even and decent exchange of 
questions and resources, and ideas, and not the narcissistic ego-driven 
chest-pounding nonsense and blubbering about what everyone else is doing wrong. 
 I would like to haves a list Where people are treated with respect, and you 
don't have to read about the trouble someone went through to spoon feed you the 
fix for your problem, or how great someone thinks his own podcast is, or how 
badly someone think Apple is doing.  In short, stuff that matters to members 
one and mostly all.

That's my vision.

Carolyn 
On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Courtney Curran wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm just curious, what do you mean by "simi professional"?
> Thanks, Courtney
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> 
>> So sorry to see you leave us.  Indeed, let me go further.  I'm sorry to see 
>> the former quality of this list degenerated in to something that, to speak 
>> frankly, it has no business being.  It certainly was not this way when I 
>> first came on board.  To speak candidly, it would appear that certain people 
>> get very agitated when Apple, (or for that matter anybody else) doesn't 
>> respond immediately to them and solve all their problems like the world 
>> revolts around them.  No Chris, I'm not picking on you particularly; though 
>> it may perhaps seem otherwise.  Look, let's face facts.  We al of us are 
>> trying to get used to this new beast we find under our hoods.  Some of us 
>> like it and others have issues.  Frankly, it seems to me that emotions are 
>> running rather too high to suit the circumstances.  I'm remaining though.  
>> Why?  Simple.  I know that, eventually, this too shall pass and the list 
>> will return to normal.  At least, that sure better happen.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:16 AM, carolyn Haas wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello list members:
>>> I'm writing in response to some of the latest goings on here.  I'm Carolyn, 
>>> a former moderator of the group.
>>> When I was asked to back off, and then told summarily that hundred of 
>>> people had complained about my mod style, I decided perhaps my expectations 
>>> were just too stringent, and pushing people away.
>>> I can not continue to be on this list as it currently is.  I'm considering 
>>> starting a resource list for semi-professional interchange , and would like 
>>> to know if there's any others interested in such.
>>> 
>>> If I'm alone in this endeavor, at least I'll know for sure that I tried.
>>> 
>>> My email is chaas0...@gmail.com.  Please only interested people respond, as 
>>> I've had enough hate mail for one lifetime.:)
>>> 
>>> Take care, and thank you for reading.
>>> Carolyn
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[John Panarese]

As the owner of mac4theblind, just to clarify this misconception, the list 
is intended to be small and low traffic.  It gets the job done for those who 
are subscribed, and there is no pretenses made of it trying to be an 
alternative to any other list out there.  If it doesn't do the job for you, you 
are more than welcomed to unsubscribe or I can do it for you.

As other lists out there, there is the Mac VoiceOver list run through 

http://www.icanworthisthing.com

There is also,as mentioned, the Mac-access list.
http://www.mac-access.net

   There are probably others out there as well, but those come to mind off the 
top of my head.

   In time, though, as people become more familiar with Lion, this list will 
settle down and return more towards the helpful and smooth-running list we are 
used to being a part of.

Take Care

John Panarese
jpanar...@gmail.com



On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> He's probably talking about Mac4theblind.  I'm on it, but I almost never post 
> there.  Not because I can't do so, it's just I felt I really wasn't getting 
> near the help on that list that I have and still am getting on this list.  I 
> don't think that they're many members on the other list, actually. I know 
> Sarah Alowami's there, and maybe like 10 or 20 others that regularly post.  
> Trust me, it's really not worth it in my personal opinion.  Again though, 
> that's only my opinion.  If you'd like, Ronald, I can try to find the 
> subscription info for you.  I make no guarantees.  I know a friend of mine 
> had to help me with finding the sub info, but again, if you would like to 
> subscribe, I'll be more than happy to try to figure out the address to do so.
> 
> Aside that list and the VIPhone list, those are the only lists I know of. 
> Apparently there is also a maccessibility list, but I've never admittedly 
> tried looking upo the info.
> 
> I'll bet you it's probably on
> 
> maccessibility.net
> though.
> 
> You want me to take a look for ya?
> 
> Let me know.  glad to help, if I can.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Ronald McEwan" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: To the Moderators
> 
> 
> So do tell, what is the other list name.
> 
> 
> In the Journey,
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I can 
>> tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
>> anything unless its Mac related.
>> 
>> I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has as 
>> it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other list.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ron:
>>> It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn and 
>>> one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
>>> according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
>>> group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of 
>>> alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, almost 
>>> anything goes approach has been adopted.
>>> Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional 
>>>  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer 
>>> the same approach I do.:)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take care
>>> 
>>> CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
 free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do 
 with Mac accessibility but apple in general.
 
 I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
 input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I 
 am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.
 
 Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.
 
 
 
 In the Journey,
 
 Ron
 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message b

Re:

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Sorry Ron, your e-mail appears to be blank aside from your signature. 
Please try again.


Have a great day.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ronald McEwan" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 2:14 PM






In the Journey,

Ron

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Re: To the Moderators

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

John,

thanks for the info on these other lists.  I definitely will check them out.

I don't see any reason to unsub from the other list, but we'll discuss this 
off list if needed.  Just because I don['t post much, it is a resourceful 
list.  I just felt I didn't get very many replies aside from one member and 
I have his/her e-mail address and skype info, so it's not like I couldn't 
just call them or write them privately, which is what I've been doing.  I'm 
on Mac4theBlind, but I'm more of a lerker there, none the less.  Hope that's 
OK.  If not though, talk to me off list about it as there isn't a need to 
bore others with that personal part of the list, I'd not think.


Anyways, my e-mail address is:

clgillan...@gmail.com

If that doesn't work, then try me at:

cgilla...@carolina.rr.com

Either address should reach me just fine.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "John Panarese" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: To the Moderators


   As the owner of mac4theblind, just to clarify this misconception, the 
list is intended to be small and low traffic.  It gets the job done for 
those who are subscribed, and there is no pretenses made of it trying to be 
an alternative to any other list out there.  If it doesn't do the job for 
you, you are more than welcomed to unsubscribe or I can do it for you.


   As other lists out there, there is the Mac VoiceOver list run through

http://www.icanworthisthing.com

There is also,as mentioned, the Mac-access list.
http://www.mac-access.net

  There are probably others out there as well, but those come to mind off 
the top of my head.


  In time, though, as people become more familiar with Lion, this list will 
settle down and return more towards the helpful and smooth-running list we 
are used to being a part of.


Take Care

John Panarese
jpanar...@gmail.com



On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

He's probably talking about Mac4theblind.  I'm on it, but I almost never 
post there.  Not because I can't do so, it's just I felt I really wasn't 
getting near the help on that list that I have and still am getting on 
this list.  I don't think that they're many members on the other list, 
actually. I know Sarah Alowami's there, and maybe like 10 or 20 others 
that regularly post.  Trust me, it's really not worth it in my personal 
opinion.  Again though, that's only my opinion.  If you'd like, Ronald, I 
can try to find the subscription info for you.  I make no guarantees.  I 
know a friend of mine had to help me with finding the sub info, but again, 
if you would like to subscribe, I'll be more than happy to try to figure 
out the address to do so.


Aside that list and the VIPhone list, those are the only lists I know of. 
Apparently there is also a maccessibility list, but I've never admittedly 
tried looking upo the info.


I'll bet you it's probably on

maccessibility.net
though.

You want me to take a look for ya?

Let me know.  glad to help, if I can.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Ronald McEwan" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: To the Moderators


So do tell, what is the other list name.


In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:


Hi.

If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I 
can tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
anything unless its Mac related.


I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has 
as it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other 
list.


Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:


Hi Ron:
It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn 
and one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, 
because according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about 
how the group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those 
hundreds of alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very 
positive, almost anything goes approach has been adopted.
Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a 
semi-professional  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I 
guess most don't prefer the same approach I do.:)



Take care

CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:


Hi,

It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to 
do with Mac accessibility but apple in general.


I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while. 
However, I am considering leaving the list because of its current 
direction.


Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.



In the Journey,

Ron

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Re: new member with several questions.

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

I took it too. Thank God they had a blindemployee who usedVO. We worked 
together for a year.
On Jul 27, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Christopher Peppel wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> 
> I took the one-on-one course at the Apple store and it was definitely worth 
> it.  In the store I went to, the folks were very friendly and helpful.  It 
> was probably the best money I spent.
> 
> Chris
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:11 PM, jim rawls wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> My wife and I will be buying a mac pro computer in the next little while. I 
>> am clueless about where to start to learn the mac with voice over. I have 
>> been a jaws user on windows computer since the year 2000, but think it is 
>> time to take the plunge and learn the mac with voice over. So, question. 
>> Would it help us to get the one to one program offered at the Mac store with 
>> our purchase?
>> My wife is sighted, I am not.
>> Second, where can I find the list of commands to use on the Mac?
>> Thirdly, is the new lion commands up to learn?
>> I can't think f any more things now, but no doubt will, so if you can give 
>> this clueless potential user of the mac pro some hints on where to start, it 
>> would be greatly appreciated.
>> thanks for your help.
>> Jim
>> 
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> 
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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Teresa Cochran]

Wow, thanks, Ricardo! I actually ended up moving the folder to a visible spot, 
thence moving it eventually to the favorites bar. I'll try the zoom button next 
time.

Teresa
On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was having the same exact problem you were having with the last mailbox in 
> my mailbox list until just now.  I pressed the zoom button and both the 
> favorites bar and mailbox I wanted to drag were in in view I guess
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
> I think the problem I'm having is not knowing when something isn't visible. I 
> will probably have to get my sighted husband to help me. The folder I want to 
> move is at the very bottom of the list, about as far away from the favorites 
> bar as possible. I get a consistent "not in view" message when I try to drag 
> it, and I can't seem to move it anywhere else, either.
> 
> Thanks,
> Teresa
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 3:40 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't think this makes a difference at all.  As long as both the place 
>> where your marking and dragging are visible on the screen, cursor tracking 
>> doesn't matter.  I just turned cursor tracking off and was able to drag and 
>> drop a folder to the favorites bar.
>> 
>> hth
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rwalker...@gmail.com
>> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
>> www.mobileaccess.org
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Shen wrote:
>> 
>> I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, 
>> that you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
>> So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. 
>> Then use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
>> Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites 
>> bar.
>> To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press 
>> VO-Comma.
>> If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
>> that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
>> If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
>> press VO-Greater Than.
>> 
>> hth
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
>>> 
>>> Teresa
>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Teresa,
 
I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
 bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one 
 that drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so 
 I picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
 interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
 shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
 worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
 
 Eric Caron 
 On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
> them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
> "area to drop may be hidden", or "item to be dragged no longer in view". 
> I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when 
> not in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
> 
> TiA,
> Teresa
> 
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>>> 
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Logging in with the Sendspace wizard

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before but I've not managed 
to find anyone else with this problem.  We also checked out Chris' podcast 
and he didn't mention anything special about logging in.


We have the problem that we enter our details into the wizard's connect 
dialog but nothing happens when we press OK.  The only button that's not 
dimmed in the toolbar is Connect, and when we press it we get the connect 
dialog again and the same thing happens.


We are assuming that the edit fields are first username and then password, 
but the password field is not identified by VoiceOver as one and nothing 
seems to indicate that we've typed in it.


We are using the "mouse click in the edit field" technique to (hopefully) 
ensure that we're typing in the right field.


We're not seeing any errors or anything, it's just not working.

We're using Sendspace Wizard 1.2.15.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Geoff.

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List Moderator Message To Come Later Today

[M. Taylor]

Hello, All,

There have been some interesting posts to the lists and I will address them
later today.  

I am posting this short note so that you know that the lists mods are
reading the posts.

Make a joyful noise, Today, Ok?  

Mark

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A question about nuance voices in Lion

[Ben J Bloomgren]

Hi all,

I have successfully gotten the Nuance voices to work (like a charm if I may 
say) in Lion. It even gets the complex tone rules of Thai correct, which is 
quite a feat! I had one question about the CJK (Chinese, Japanese and Korean) 
voices. Does anyone have any experience to know whether there's a way for a 
blind person to know what character one's pulling from the list generated by 
the Pinyin input?

Please write me off list about this question, as I don't want to clutter the 
list of with technical stuff that's above the novice user's abilities...

It's a shame that I'm having to do this, as this list has been one of the best 
resources for me as a new Mac user. I never thought I'd ever use a mac, and 
yall have been my best resource. I hate to say this, but I am not going to 
stand for what has happened in the past while. There was an issue the other 
night where people's macbooks were running really hot due to a screw-up in the 
indexing of Spotlight in Lion. Chris did what I don't think I could ever do. He 
dug and dug and dug until he uprooted a fix that was buried way back in the 
Unix shell of the OS. He wrote the list to state the fix. Some people wrote 
saying that it was "ridiculous" to do what he suggested. I'm not going into the 
"he said, she said" stuff here, but I'm leaving the list because one of my best 
friends is continually being slandered on list when all he has done is to help 
with problems with the mac.

I'm sorry that I'm resorting to this, but there's nothing that can be said or 
done. Banning and moderation status won't do a blessed thing with this. Chris 
and I are both volunteering to leave the list. If you think that I'm just 
sticking up for "good ole Chrissy", you're mistaken. These opinions are mine. 
He happens to share them, but I'm writing on my own volition.

It's been a pleasure, and this is sad as heck that I'm having to take such 
drastic measures.

Best wishes for the best of futures in Christ,

Ben J Bloomgren

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Re: To the Moderators

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi Chris,

I'm a female.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Jul 2011, at 07:07 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"  
wrote:

> He's probably talking about Mac4theblind.  I'm on it, but I almost never post 
> there.  Not because I can't do so, it's just I felt I really wasn't getting 
> near the help on that list that I have and still am getting on this list.  I 
> don't think that they're many members on the other list, actually. I know 
> Sarah Alowami's there, and maybe like 10 or 20 others that regularly post.  
> Trust me, it's really not worth it in my personal opinion.  Again though, 
> that's only my opinion.  If you'd like, Ronald, I can try to find the 
> subscription info for you.  I make no guarantees.  I know a friend of mine 
> had to help me with finding the sub info, but again, if you would like to 
> subscribe, I'll be more than happy to try to figure out the address to do so.
> 
> Aside that list and the VIPhone list, those are the only lists I know of. 
> Apparently there is also a maccessibility list, but I've never admittedly 
> tried looking upo the info.
> 
> I'll bet you it's probably on
> 
> maccessibility.net
> though.
> 
> You want me to take a look for ya?
> 
> Let me know.  glad to help, if I can.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Ronald McEwan" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: To the Moderators
> 
> 
> So do tell, what is the other list name.
> 
> 
> In the Journey,
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I can 
>> tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
>> anything unless its Mac related.
>> 
>> I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed aproach it has as 
>> it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other list.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Ron:
>>> It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn and 
>>> one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
>>> according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
>>> group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds of 
>>> alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, almost 
>>> anything goes approach has been adopted.
>>> Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a semi-professional 
>>>  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I guess most don't prefer 
>>> the same approach I do.:)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take care
>>> 
>>> CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
 free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do 
 with Mac accessibility but apple in general.
 
 I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
 input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I 
 am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.
 
 Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.
 
 
 
 In the Journey,
 
 Ron
 
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[CJ Daniel]

Chris,

Are you always so reactionary, with every situation that confronts you?  I'm 
not trying to start anything.  However, in over a month of monitoring this list 
I've seen you screaming the sky is falling or in the face of other list members 
an inordinate amount of the time.  Again, I'm not trying to rattle your cage, 
but maybe if you'd settle down & reflect on how many times in life that most 
things work out, one way or another, you could just take a chill pill & quit 
being so precipitant & @ times down-right offensive.

Just a thought,

CJ


On Jul 28, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> No optical drive, and not enough HD space are the two deal breakers for me. 
> Plus the guy at my local Apple store said if the O S crashes I have to send 
> it in for repair, as with no optical drive there is no way to restore the O S 
> yourself.  When I pointed out a U S B  CD drive, he said in theory you'd 
> think that would work, but it won't boot frm a U S B CD drive.  He said even 
> going into open firmware and configuring things wouldn't do it.  Finally, he 
> said no microphone nor eyesite web cam, which for me is enough major 
> dealbreaker.
> 
> I dono if I trust the credibility of any of this, but if that all is true, 
> then, gag me with a spoon!  Not only this, but $700 less than a MBP?  this 
> guy told me that the two models of MBA's ran for $1200 each.
> 
> Again, I am not saying that I necessarily believe all of this, but if it's 
> true, then, ee, gacks!
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Daniel Miller" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:59 AM
> Subject: RE: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
> 
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> You're right about them not selling the white MacBook as of the release of
>> Lion. However, we don't know the reasons behind the decision, and they could
>> possibly come out with something that meets your needs. I'm confused,
>> though, what makes the MacBook Air unimpressive in your eyes? It runs just
>> as fast, if not faster than the MacBook Pros, for $700 less. The only thing
>> you don't get is a traditional hard drive, which will end up solving a lot
>> of drive failure problems anyway since there are no physical read heads to
>> be damaged. I admit, the amount of storage you get in the entry level model
>> is lesser than I'd want ideally, keep in mind the cost to manufacture solid
>> state storage is astronomical. You also don't get an optical drive, but
>> that's only $79.99 as an add-on.
>> As far as the Lion accessibility issues, give apple time to fix things. No
>> dot 0 release is always perfect.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
>> Gilland
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:41 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
>> 
>> OK, I have a friend who has just informed me that Apple as of the release of
>> Lion is no longer making, nor selling refurbished or not, the white plain
>> macbooks.  Now, all they're selling in the laptop style is either the two
>> sizes of Macbook Airs, or if you want a full laptop, then the Eluminum
>> Macbook Pro.  Not that this really per sey is a major issue for newcomers,
>> except the price will obviously be more, which leads me to my question.
>> 
>> What about people like myself?  I got my macbook back in April.  It's not a
>> Pro.  It's just a stocked white 13 inch.  So, God forbid that thing ever
>> stops working during my year warranty, but hypotheticly, let's just say that
>> it did.  I'm not in the least impressed with the Macbook airs.  Not even the
>> 13 inch model.  It's just not at all compreble for what I need.  So, don't
>> tell me I'd be either forced to get an air, seeing that they're at equal
>> price, or pay more to get a Pro.  Why should we pay more for something under
>> warranty, and furthermore, more for a product replacing the one we already
>> have.  It's not our falt that they decided to quit making a good product.
>> What is Apple's deal lately!  First it's the accessibility bugs in Lion, now
>> this?  I hope my friend's assumption is incorrect, but he clamed he called
>> Apple and asked them.
>> 
>> Does anyone know?
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Patrick Neazer]

Hello:

I might be stating the obvious ... it sounds like things have gotten a little 
out of hand. No sides being taken just a statement of the situation. 

If anyone agrees with that analysis it would seem the question on the table 
would be just what is going to be done going forward. If anyone disagrees with 
the analysis then hopefully they would agree that the current environment is 
unsustainable. Something has to give. 

That is all I wanted to say. Hopefully cool heads will prevail and comfort in 
the knowledge that this list is a reputable and secure place to acquire and 
share information can either be reestablished or continued ... depending upon 
how you see the situation.

Take good care and I wish you all enough.
On Jul 28, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a free-for-all.  
> I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to do with Mac 
> accessibility but apple in general.  
> 
> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted input 
> from those who have been in the apple arena for a while.  However, I am 
> considering leaving the list because of its current direction.  
> 
> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Journey, 
> 
> Ron
> 
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Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.

[CJ Daniel]

Please?

CJ

On Jul 28, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Good Jesus H Christ guys!  Give me a break for god sake!  I wasn't 
> speculating!  I asked what they would do, no more no less.
> 
> If all you all think I do is complain, maybe I should leave the list.  I'm 
> trying to help and ask educated questions, but it seems it's not worth me 
> waisting my time.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Tim Kilburn" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Apple may have done a number on themselves.
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In addition to jeff's comments, it's not worth speculating on what Apple may 
> or may not do if your MacBook crashed.  Suggesting that they'll make you pay 
> extra money for a Pro or make you accept a MBA as a replacement is inaccurate 
> speculation.  Giving them a bad wrap for something that hasn't even happened 
> or may not even be close to the truth is unfair.  Wait and see what they do 
> if the situation arises then either comment or praise.
> 
> Later…
> 
> On 2011-07-28, at 8:32 AM, Geoff Shang wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It's true that the MacBook is no longer being sold to regular consumers. But 
>> it's still being sold to educational institutions.  As such, it's still 
>> being manufactured.  So I'd expect it will still be possible to get your 
>> MacBook serviced for the foreseeable future.
>> 
>> Geoff.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
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Re: Lion DVD

[Hayri Tulumcu]

OK But what I meant was, if it is just an upgrade DVD, not the full DVD,
so it requires
well that Snow Leopard is on the same drive were you can install Lion?
- Original Message - 
From: "James Malone" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Lion DVD



You need to run Disc Utility from the boot CD, select the HD your
partition for SL is on, then click erase.
HTH

On 7/28/11, Hayri Tulumcu  wrote:
How can you remove snow leopard completely when it is only an upgrade 
DVD?

For it fills the only 3.49GB!

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Re: Choosing a Mac Book Air

[Garth Humphreys]

Thanks to both of you.

 I think my choice is now pretty clearly between the 11 inch with 4Gb and 128 
Gb SSD and the 13 inch with the same spec. There is a $100 price difference 
between the two at $1349 or $1449. The 13 also has a slightly faster processor 
and supposably better battery life.  I guess I will just keep playing with them 
in store.  The base model is only $1099 Australian but as I suspected, I 
shouldn't have been considering this one. 

Garth

On 29/07/2011, at 12:05 AM, Bryan Jones  wrote:

> Hello Garth,
> 
> I have a late 2010 11 inch macbook air and can give my opinions. I've never 
> tried the 13 inch Air, so I won't give an opinion on it.
> Regarding RAM: I think there are several good reasons to purchase it with 4 
> GB of RAM.
> Reason one: Unlike most computers, RAM on the Air is not upgradable after 
> you've purchased it. It is soldered to the system board and cannot be 
> expanded. Perhaps an enterprising third party will come along with a method 
> of upgrading RAM but as of yet this has not happened to the best of my 
> knowledge.
> Reason two: Lion's minimum RAM requirement is two GB. It's probably a good 
> idea to have more than the minimum even if you only plan to do basic web 
> surfing, email and skype..
> Reason three: If you're considering the only model that comes with 2GB RAM, I 
> assume that also means you're considering the 64 GB SSD that comes with that 
> base model. Apple's retail price is US $100 to bump that base model up to 
> 4GB. However, if you bypass the base model and go with the higher-level 
> model, you will get both the additional 2 GB of RAM plus a 128 GB SSD for not 
> a lot more money, especially if you shop around at vendors such as macmall 
> and amazon where you can find better pricing. While I would normally also 
> recommend looking at Apple's online refurb store, in this case I think the 
> reported performance improvements of the newest Air probably outweigh the 
> small price difference offered by purchasing a last-generation refurbished 
> Air.
> 
> Regarding Zoom: I used Zoom extensively in the past when my vision was 
> better, and I still use it sometimes with my 24 inch external monitor. For 
> getting out of tricky situations, I find Zoom is fine on the 11 inch screen. 
> Try it in the store and see what you think. You can zoom the heck out of most 
> things. If you're like me and cannot see anything on a white background, you 
> might want to also try reversing the video to white-on-black. The Zoom, color 
> and contrast options can all be found and quickly toggled in the Universal 
> Access panel of System Preferences. If you decide to attach an external 
> monitor, you can do this through the new Thunderbolt port which actually 
> doubles as a mini DisplayPort, thus allowing you to use Apple's variety of 
> adapters to connect to VGA, DVI and I think HDMI displays.
> 
> HTH,
> Bryan
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>> I am trying to decide which Mac Book Air to buy.  I would love to hear the 
>> experiences of those of you who use the zoom feature with VO.  I have been 
>> trying the air out at our local Apple store and am trying to decide between 
>> the 11 inch and the 13 inch models.
>> 
>> Firstly, do you all think that it is important to get 4  Gb RAM or would 2 
>> Gb be fine with VO.  Keep in mind that the Air would primarily be used for 
>> email and browsing. At times I will be using the Air for skype and will want 
>> to be able to record the audio.
>> 
>> Next, how well does the Zoom feature work. The reason for asking is that I 
>> am trying to evaluate the value of spending an extra $100 or so for the 
>> extra screen realestate of the 13 inch.  My sight is poor enough that I 
>> would probably only use the screen to help get out of those tricky 
>> situations where seeing the screen makes it easier.  I hope this makes sence 
>> to some of you.
> 
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Re: To the Moderators

[Red.Falcon]

Hi Chris!
If your still here!
And you've not put a block on my post's!
So I found out your a Christian OK that's fine by me!
But all I referring to was that there are other people from other countries and 
they might not like the way people say things [and this is not aimed directly 
at you]
But I still stand by watching how people phrase things!
It's no skin off my nose and I'm thicked skinned!
But to give you an idea of my thoughts about you!
As far as Mac [ keeping it list relevant] you would wipe the floor with me I'm 
just a beginner compared to you and many on this list also can put me in my 
place!
So I have no problem with your helpful comments and suggestions but you do not 
need all that other stuff!
As it seems to me your quite good with language [unlike me] and therefore could 
put your views across without all that other stuff!
As for a laid back list I've got no problem with that [i like a laugh to]
So if you think you still can contribute then stay!
Colin

On 28 Jul 2011, at 19:09, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> OK, that probably explains why I've never heard of the list, being I'm not 
> from the UK.  LOL!  Like I say, it's ok, I get enough good resourceful help 
> here, so no need to bother joining another list for now at least.  :)
> 
> Take care.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Kawal Gucukoglu" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: To the Moderators
> 
> 
> Mac Access UK.  I think that Anne Robertson is the moderator but I might be 
> wrong.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 28 Jul 2011, at 06:47 PM, Ronald McEwan  wrote:
> 
>> So do tell, what is the other list name.
>> 
>> 
>> In the Journey,
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> If you like strictness, you should subscribe to the other Mac list and I 
>>> can tell you that there are so many guide lines, you can't not talk about 
>>> anything unless its Mac related.
>>> 
>>> I quit that list and am glad for this list and the relaxed approach it has 
>>> as it was stuffy before so I came off it.  Its much better than the other 
>>> list.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:52 PM, carolyn Haas  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Ron:
 It is very much like a free for all.  There is one owner, Cara, Quinn and 
 one moderator, Mark Taylor.  There are no guidelines in place, because 
 according to Mark Taylor there were hundreds of complaints about how the 
 group was being moderated.  Therefore, in the interest of those hundreds 
 of alleged complaints and the people who made them, a very positive, 
 almost anything goes approach has been adopted.
 Personally, I would prefer a more guided approach, with a 
 semi-professional  ambiance/.  But, I'm just a list member now, and I 
 guess most don't prefer the same approach I do.:)
 
 
 Take care
 
 CarolynOn Jul 28, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
 
> Hi,
> 
> It is becoming evident to me that this list has turned into a 
> free-for-all.  I am reading more and more mails that don't have much to 
> do with Mac accessibility but apple in general.
> 
> I bought my first Mac in February and joined the list because I wanted 
> input from those who have been in the apple arena for a while. However, I 
> am considering leaving the list because of its current direction.
> 
> Please post the guidelines and let me know if I am mistakenin any way.
> 
> 
> 
> In the Journey,
> 
> Ron
> 
> -- 
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>>> 
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Re: Using gmail web interface

[Garth Humphreys]

Sorry if I wasn't clear Colin, When I said I used the up and down arrows as 
well as VO + space, I meant that I tried both options to select the initial 
link. On both occasions the menu with sign out came up on the screen but we 
were then unable to get VO focus to go to it.  I will try again today, maybe 
the page was just acting a bit weird that day. Other links on the page that act 
like menus were working normally so we;'ll see how it goes today. Thanks for 
the input and assistance. It is appreciated.


Garth

On 29/07/2011, at 12:13 AM, "Red.Falcon"  
wrote:

> Hi Garth!
> Well I think I can help with the quick nav thingy!
> Instead of using the up down arrows try just the right one!
> That should take you through each link until you get to the sign out one!
> And I've got a track pad here so I'll just go and see what I can come up 
> with! [ I need the practice!]
> hth Colin
> 
> On 28 Jul 2011, at 14:19, Garth Humphreys wrote:
> 
>> Hi Colin
>> 
>> Thanks for the response. I can understand your directions. I will try the VO 
>> + U option tomorrow when in store.  
>> 
>> When I tried it last time, I was able to find my name on the web interface. 
>> The Apple rep could see on screen that the sign out link came up on screen 
>> when I selected the link with my name however neither of us could get VO to 
>> then go to the sign out  link.   BTW I tried both VO+space and the quick nav 
>> up / down arrows to select the my name link.
>> 
>> Apart from this issue I found that it was really natural to be able to 
>> navigate the web with the track pad commander but there is also a lot that 
>> will take some getting use to.   
>> 
>> Thanks 
>> Garth
>> 
>> On 28/07/2011, at 10:40 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Garth!
>>> OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
>>> under that options!
>>> When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
>>> This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
>>> like your profile!
>>> You should find the sign out link there as well!
>>> You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is 
>>> set on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
>>> So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
>>> narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
>>> So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will 
>>> select that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
>>> There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
>>> your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
>>> vo+space on it!
>>> hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
>>> Colin
>>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>>> 
 
 
 Garth
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
> From: Garth Humphreys 
> Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
> To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
> Subject: Using gmail web interface
> 
 
> Hi 
> 
> I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been 
> playing with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail 
> account in store and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
> 
> The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu 
> that dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not 
> work out how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to 
> log out for me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't 
> work it out. As I don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very 
> inexperienced at using the Mac.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Garth
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 

Re: Using gmail web interface

[Garth Humphreys]

Lol, It was not too boring but I probably wasn't still awake.  I am fairly 
familiar with how the web rota works as I use a iPad and have one of the Apple 
Blue Tooth keyboards that I use with it.  I'll give it another go and hopefully 
be able to get some assistance in store if unable to sign out.  I have a bit of 
a fear that I will leave the store without properly signing out of my gmail 
account :)  

Garth

On 29/07/2011, at 1:40 AM, "Red.Falcon"  
wrote:

> Hi Garth!
> Yes it's that annoying brit again! :]
> Well I hope this is not to much info!
> So I noticed you said about quick nav select [up\down] and that reminded me 
> that you can select how quick nav navigates with up\right arrows together 
> this will go through the same options that are listed under vo+u!
> So if qn is on headers up\right arrows will change it to links!
> From then on if you down arrow you will go through each link and get to the 
> sign out link that way!
> Of course up\left will take you through the options the other way!
> Now for the track pad I found doing a 1 finger flick to the right also took 
> me through each link and got me to the sign out link OK!
> If this does not work on the Mac you are trying out it might be that the 
> mouse cursor is not following the vo cursor in settings!
> I'm new to the track pad myself so as yet do not know the right command to 
> select an item using the track pad!
> Hope this was not to boring and you are still awake!
> Colin
> 
> On 28 Jul 2011, at 14:19, Garth Humphreys wrote:
> 
>> Hi Colin
>> 
>> Thanks for the response. I can understand your directions. I will try the VO 
>> + U option tomorrow when in store.  
>> 
>> When I tried it last time, I was able to find my name on the web interface. 
>> The Apple rep could see on screen that the sign out link came up on screen 
>> when I selected the link with my name however neither of us could get VO to 
>> then go to the sign out  link.   BTW I tried both VO+space and the quick nav 
>> up / down arrows to select the my name link.
>> 
>> Apart from this issue I found that it was really natural to be able to 
>> navigate the web with the track pad commander but there is also a lot that 
>> will take some getting use to.   
>> 
>> Thanks 
>> Garth
>> 
>> On 28/07/2011, at 10:40 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Garth!
>>> OK when on the gmail screen and it should say something like your email and 
>>> under that options!
>>> When sitting on your email link just press vo+space!
>>> This should bring you to where you can check your settings and other things 
>>> like your profile!
>>> You should find the sign out link there as well!
>>> You could also use the web rota open with [vo+u and depending on what it is 
>>> set on like headers for example you can right arrow until it says links!
>>> So sitting on the table of links if then you type s and i the choice's will 
>>> narrow down to just a few options one of which should be sign out!
>>> So down arrow to that link on the list and press vo+space and that will 
>>> select that link and vo+space and then you will be signed out!
>>> There is also if you do not want to try the rota just yet after pressing on 
>>> your email just arrow until you get to that sign out link and once again 
>>> vo+space on it!
>>> hopefully this was not to confusing and it works for you!
>>> Colin
>>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 01:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>>> 
 
 
 Garth
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
> From: Garth Humphreys 
> Date: 28 July 2011 10:12:23 AM AEST
> To: "viph...@googlegroups.com" 
> Subject: Using gmail web interface
> 
 
> Hi 
> 
> I still have not taken the plunge and bought a Mac however have been 
> playing with one at our local Apple store.  I logged into my gmail 
> account in store and found that I couldn't work out how to log out.
> 
> The apple rep in store was helping me and advised that there was a menu 
> that dropped down under my name which allows log out but we could not 
> work out how to get to it with VO on. In the end I just got the rep to 
> log out for me. I am sure this is very easy to do but I just couldn't 
> work it out. As I don't even have a Mac yet, I am obviously very 
> inexperienced at using the Mac.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Garth
 
 
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 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscri

Apple to the core episode 3

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi folks,

In this episode, I show off some new features in voiceover found in Lion like 
activities and drag and drop.  I also show how to use the favorites bar in 
Mail.  You can listen at

http://goo.gl/Lm1Up

hth

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

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Re: Choosing a Mac Book Air

[Ricardo Walker]

Good luck.  I'm sure you will pick the machine that best suits your needs.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:56 PM, Garth Humphreys wrote:

Thanks to both of you.

I think my choice is now pretty clearly between the 11 inch with 4Gb and 128 Gb 
SSD and the 13 inch with the same spec. There is a $100 price difference 
between the two at $1349 or $1449. The 13 also has a slightly faster processor 
and supposably better battery life.  I guess I will just keep playing with them 
in store.  The base model is only $1099 Australian but as I suspected, I 
shouldn't have been considering this one. 

Garth

On 29/07/2011, at 12:05 AM, Bryan Jones  wrote:

> Hello Garth,
> 
> I have a late 2010 11 inch macbook air and can give my opinions. I've never 
> tried the 13 inch Air, so I won't give an opinion on it.
> Regarding RAM: I think there are several good reasons to purchase it with 4 
> GB of RAM.
> Reason one: Unlike most computers, RAM on the Air is not upgradable after 
> you've purchased it. It is soldered to the system board and cannot be 
> expanded. Perhaps an enterprising third party will come along with a method 
> of upgrading RAM but as of yet this has not happened to the best of my 
> knowledge.
> Reason two: Lion's minimum RAM requirement is two GB. It's probably a good 
> idea to have more than the minimum even if you only plan to do basic web 
> surfing, email and skype..
> Reason three: If you're considering the only model that comes with 2GB RAM, I 
> assume that also means you're considering the 64 GB SSD that comes with that 
> base model. Apple's retail price is US $100 to bump that base model up to 
> 4GB. However, if you bypass the base model and go with the higher-level 
> model, you will get both the additional 2 GB of RAM plus a 128 GB SSD for not 
> a lot more money, especially if you shop around at vendors such as macmall 
> and amazon where you can find better pricing. While I would normally also 
> recommend looking at Apple's online refurb store, in this case I think the 
> reported performance improvements of the newest Air probably outweigh the 
> small price difference offered by purchasing a last-generation refurbished 
> Air.
> 
> Regarding Zoom: I used Zoom extensively in the past when my vision was 
> better, and I still use it sometimes with my 24 inch external monitor. For 
> getting out of tricky situations, I find Zoom is fine on the 11 inch screen. 
> Try it in the store and see what you think. You can zoom the heck out of most 
> things. If you're like me and cannot see anything on a white background, you 
> might want to also try reversing the video to white-on-black. The Zoom, color 
> and contrast options can all be found and quickly toggled in the Universal 
> Access panel of System Preferences. If you decide to attach an external 
> monitor, you can do this through the new Thunderbolt port which actually 
> doubles as a mini DisplayPort, thus allowing you to use Apple's variety of 
> adapters to connect to VGA, DVI and I think HDMI displays.
> 
> HTH,
> Bryan
> 
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>> I am trying to decide which Mac Book Air to buy.  I would love to hear the 
>> experiences of those of you who use the zoom feature with VO.  I have been 
>> trying the air out at our local Apple store and am trying to decide between 
>> the 11 inch and the 13 inch models.
>> 
>> Firstly, do you all think that it is important to get 4  Gb RAM or would 2 
>> Gb be fine with VO.  Keep in mind that the Air would primarily be used for 
>> email and browsing. At times I will be using the Air for skype and will want 
>> to be able to record the audio.
>> 
>> Next, how well does the Zoom feature work. The reason for asking is that I 
>> am trying to evaluate the value of spending an extra $100 or so for the 
>> extra screen realestate of the 13 inch.  My sight is poor enough that I 
>> would probably only use the screen to help get out of those tricky 
>> situations where seeing the screen makes it easier.  I hope this makes sence 
>> to some of you.
> 
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