Re: Proposal for STDCXX

[Martin Sebor]

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-


...

There's at least one open implementation out there now: the GNU STL.
What differentiates the RW codebase from the GNU one?  If there are
bugs or performance, uh, deficiencies in the GNU one, why not submit
the changes to the gcc crowd?


GNU libstdc++ is a fine implementation of the standard but its
big limitation is its dependency on gcc. What differentiates
our implementation is its portability to all the other compilers
besides gcc, which on most platforms other than Linux is still
an inferior choice when compared to the native compiler.

Martin

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Re: Proposal for STDCXX

[Martin Sebor]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

At 03:43 PM 6/1/2005, Martin Sebor wrote:



GNU libstdc++ is a fine implementation of the standard but its
big limitation is its dependency on gcc. What differentiates
our implementation is its portability to all the other compilers
besides gcc, which on most platforms other than Linux is still
an inferior choice when compared to the native compiler.



Can you give us a sense of the 'currently' supported platforms
and compilers?  (Obviously, with this mission, the breadth of
these would grow with time as an ASF project.)


The C++ Standard Library project has been ported to the following
compilers and operating systems:

Como 4.2.4 through 4.3.3 on Solaris 7 through 9 (SPARC)
Compaq C++ 6.3 through 6.5 on Tru64 UNIX (Alpha)
EDG eccp 2.45.2 through 3.5 on Solaris 7 through 9 (SPARC) and
Linux (x86)
gcc 2.95.2 through 3.4.3 on HP-UX, Linux (x86, x86_64, IA64),
Solaris 7 through 10 (x86, SPARC), as well as Cygwin and Interix
HP aCC 3.33 through 3.63 on HP-UX 11.00 through 11.23 (PA-RISC)
HP aCC 5.50 through 6.01 on HP-UX 11.22 through 11.23 (IPF)
IBM VisualAge C++ 5.0 through 7.0 on AIX and Linux (PowerPC)
Intel C++ 7.0 through 8.1 on Linux and Windows (x86, x86_64, IA64)
MIPSpro 7.3 through 7.4 on IRIX64 (MIPS)
MSVC 6.0 through 7.1 on Windows (x86, x86_64, IA64)
SunPro 5.3 through 5.7 on Solaris 6 through 10 (x86, x86_64, SPARC)

Ports to other platforms such MVS, OS/390, Siemens Reliant/CDS++,
VMS, and z/OS have also been done, although they are not being
maintained on the development branch.

The tarball that's on our Web page(*) is a snapshot of the
development branch tested at the time on most (although not
all) of the platforms above.

(*) http://www.roguewave.com/opensource/

Martin

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CVS integration with Bugzilla

[Martin Sebor]

We're trying get a better understanding of the pros and cons of using
either Bugzilla or Jira as the bug tracking database for the stdcxx
project. One of the important features I look for in a bug tracking
database is the integration with CVS/Subversion in order to track
patches. From what I've seen, this appears to be implemented in Jira
and used by some Apache projects, but I have yet to find a project
that takes advantage of this ability in Bugzilla. Could someone
confirm whether this is possible with the Apache installation of
Bugzilla?

Thanks!
Martin

Here are a couple of examples of CVS/SVN integration with Bugzilla
and Jira:
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21165#c5
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOGCXX-70?page=vcs

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Re: SVN repository disappeared?

[Martin Sebor]

Heidi Buelow wrote:

Did anyone else notice that the svn repository seems to have
disappeared?



Yes, something bad seems to have happened to the SVN repos.
I haven't been able to get to svn since sometime between 10
and 11 this morning (US mountain time). Here's the error I've
been gettin since then:

$ svn ls http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/
svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/repos/asf/incubator'
svn:
Could not open the requested SVN filesystem

Martin

 


The directory http://svn.apache.org/repos/

is gone.  There is a newly created directory called
http://svn.apache.org/repository   but
the
stuff inside is different than what was in "repos."

 


Help?

 


Heidi.



 






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Re: SVN repository disappeared?

[Martin Sebor]

Simon Kitching wrote:

On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 17:04 -0600, Martin Sebor wrote:


Heidi Buelow wrote:


Did anyone else notice that the svn repository seems to have
disappeared?



Yes, something bad seems to have happened to the SVN repos.
I haven't been able to get to svn since sometime between 10
and 11 this morning (US mountain time). Here's the error I've
been gettin since then:

$ svn ls
svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/repos/asf/incubator'
svn:
Could not open the requested SVN filesystem



Subversion access is working fine for me (both web browsing and
command-line).


I can confirm that it's back now. That was very odd.

Martin

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Jul 27 23:46:19 2005

[Martin Sebor]

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
...


Resolved Issues

...

o All projects under incubation must use a STATUS file (or a
  status.xml file if the project prefers XML) that contains
  information the PMC needs about the project. This file must
  live at the root of the project cvs module
  (http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=504543)

...
>   -- Are they tracking progress in the file
>
>   incubator/projects/{project_name}/STATUS

There are two requirements for a status file: one mentioned in this
STATUS report as well as in the Ongoing Activities section of the
Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities%0D
and another mentioned in the Use of Apache Resources section of the
same document:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources

I looked for an example of what the STATUS file should look like
but I've only found one such file in the approximate location
(http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/beehive/STATUS).

Could someone clarify whether the STATUS file is in fact required
or whether a Web page with the same content is sufficient?

Thanks
Martin

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Re: [Fwd: Question about stdcxx development snapshots]

[Martin Sebor]

Leo Simons wrote:

So, ehm, one more time,

Could you peeps *please* stop using [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions
like this? Development at apache happens in public.
general@incubator.apache.org is the e-mail address to use for questions like
this. Please subscribe to it, read through some of its archives, and see how
"things are done". PMC mailing lists (and similarly PPMC mailing lists) are
for very sensitive issues only.


I apologize for using the wrong list(s). My only excuse is that we
CC'd stdcxx-dev on our original question but got no responses. I was
misled by the Releases section of the Incubation Policy document,
specifically this sentence:

  Podlings in Incubation SHALL NOT perform any releases of software
  without the explicit approval of the Incubator PMC.

into believing that [EMAIL PROTECTED] was the list where we
should turn with questions/requests regarding releases from the
incubator.

FWIW, I am subscribed to the incubator mailing list and have read
some (although obviously not all) of the past posts. I have been
using http://mail-archives.apache.org/ as the interface to browse
the archives. I don't see any way to search through them, though.
Is there a different page that I should use?

Thanks
Martin



Answering your question,

yes, any tarball or zipfile or other distribution you push out to users
falls under the policy referenced below. Apache is extremely proud and
protective of and confident in the quality of the software it releases, and
you should be too. Review is hence a necessary part of that process. You can
find examples of asking for approval in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
archives, for example the Derby project made a few releases under
incubation.

Hmm. I tend to consider "release early, release often" a good thing. Maybe
we'll change policy if it proves too cumbersome. But we'll stick with it
until that's actually the case :-)

Thanks!

Leo

On 01-08-2005 17:46, "Martin Sebor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Hi,

Could someone kindly clarify for us the process of obtaining
an approval to publish development snapshots of the stdcxx
podling? The details of what we'd like to do are in the email
below.

Thanks in advance!
Martin

 Original Message 
Subject: Question about stdcxx development snapshots
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:24:10 -0600
From: Amit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: stdcxx-dev@incubator.apache.org, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hello,

I have a question about providing development snapshot of source code to
stdcxx users.

What we would like to do is, make a snapshot of the initially
contributed stdcxx sources (revision 219596) available for download. (No
documentation in this tarball). Going forward, we would also like to
make snapshots available on a semi-regular basis (say once a month,
depending on how active the project will be).

This is to increase interest in the project for users who do not want to
pull code from SVN and just want to give stdcxx a test drive.


However according to incubation guidelines:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases%0
D
We may not do releases without permission (and review).


Will such development snapshot be considered a release or are we allowed
to provide this to users of stdcxx project?


Thanks

Amit Jindal
Rogue Wave Software, A QUOVADX(tm) Division






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searchable mailing list archives (was: Re: [Fwd: Question about stdcxx development snapshots])

[Martin Sebor]

Martin Sebor wrote:
...

FWIW, I am subscribed to the incubator mailing list and have read
some (although obviously not all) of the past posts. I have been
using http://mail-archives.apache.org/ as the interface to browse
the archives. I don't see any way to search through them, though.
Is there a different page that I should use?


Responding to myself:

Yes, there is. By accident I stumbled upon this searchable mailing
list archive:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Unfortunately, it's not listed on the ASF Mail Archives page that
I have been relying on (http://mail-archives.apache.org) or on the
Mailing Lists page (http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html).
Although to be fair, other searchable archives are listed on that
page.

Martin

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Re: committer account request

[Martin Sebor]

Martin Sebor wrote:
[...]

I'm trying to request a user account for [...] one our
committers who only recently faxed in his CLA (on 8/24 to be
exact). The instructions on the page below say to monitor the
file iclas.txt in the foundation/officers repository to see
whether the CLA has been recorded:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#newcommitter

I'm having trouble finding the file or the repository.

[...]

I wonder if this page has the same info as the iclas.txt file:
http://people.apache.org/~jim/committers.html#unlistedclas

Could someone please confirm?

Thanks
Martin

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Re: committer account request

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:

Martin Sebor wrote:


Martin Sebor wrote:
[...]


I'm trying to request a user account for [...] one our
committers who only recently faxed in his CLA (on 8/24 to be
exact). The instructions on the page below say to monitor the
file iclas.txt in the foundation/officers repository to see
whether the CLA has been recorded:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#newcommitter

I'm having trouble finding the file or the repository.



That page also says that only ASF members can view
that file.


Sorry for missing (or rather misreading) that.

FWIW, I didn't read the text as saying that *only* ASF members can
view the file but rather that PMC members should be able to view it
and if not, then an ASF member will definitely be able to. Since I
am a PPMC member (but not a PMC one), I was unclear about whether
I should expect to have the permissions to view it or not.




I wonder if this page has the same info as the iclas.txt file:
   http://people.apache.org/~jim/committers.html#unlistedclas

Could someone please confirm?



Yes, good discovery. It does. I will tweak the
pmc.html page.


Thanks, the tweak will definitely help!

Martin

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stdcxx snapshot

[Martin Sebor]

In an effort is to make it easier for people to download and experiment
with the stdcxx library and become interested in contributing to the
development of the podling, the stdcxx community voted on and approved
a proposal to make a stable snapshot of the stdcxx sources available
for download. Follow the links below to read the text of the proposal
and the result of the vote.

Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation Policy, we would now
like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to make the snapshot
available via a link from the stdcxx Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

Thanks
Martin

[VOTE] stdcxx 4.1.2 snapshot:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200508.mbox/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]
[VOTE RESULT] (was: Re: [VOTE] stdcxx 4.1.2 snapshot):
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200509.mbox/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]

Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases%0D

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questions about PPMCs

[Martin Sebor]

I have a few questions about PPMCs that I can't find answers to
in the documentation. Could someone help me with the answers?

1. Where do I get the member list for a given PPMC (such as stdcxx)?
2. Who can subscribe to a podling's ppmc mailing list? (If I'm one
   of the moderators of the list, how do I know who to accept and
   who I should reject? -- this is just a hypothetical question).
3. Is any subscriber to the -ppmc list also automatically a member
   of the PPMC?
4. Are the -ppmc lists archived, and if so, where?

Thanks
Martin

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Re: questions about PPMCs

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:

Leo Simons wrote:


Martin Sebor wrote:


I have a few questions about PPMCs that I can't find answers to
in the documentation. Could someone help me with the answers?

1. Where do I get the member list for a given PPMC (such as stdcxx)?


There is a facility for that kind of info that Ken Coar provides at
apache-server.com but I'm a little sketchy on the details. The other one
is to ask apmail at apache dot_goes_here org (there's some ezmlm
commands to enter, see

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/apmail/trunk/README

), but apmail is kinda busy so only ask if you've got a really good reason.



The facility that Leo refers to is noted in
https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/docs/resources.txt

There are notes in
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair

The official list of each PMC is in
https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/committee-info.txt
but i don't know about PPMCs sorry.


Thank you both for all the links, they will be handy at some point.
Right now, though, it's the PPMC info that I'm most interested in.
In particular, I would like to know who the members of the stdcxx
PPMC are.



Moderators can get the list of who is subscribed for
any list that they manage by sending to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Right. This is useful, but as Leo noted, the set of subscribers need
not be the same as (or even a superset of) the set of PPMC members.

[...]

4. Are the -ppmc lists archived, and if so, where?


yes (unless archiving is disabled, which is a Bad Thing). On
people.apache.org (aka minotaur) at

/home/apmail/private-arch

in "mbox" format.



http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#mail-archives


Noted, thanks :)

I don't have permissions to access the private-arch/ subdirectory
but, being a stdcxx-ppmc moderator, I can retrieve past messages
using the stdcxx-ppmc-thread.N ezmlm command. I suppose non-PPMC
subscribers should not (and will not) be able to view the archive
and that's fine.

Martin

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Re: stdcxx snapshot

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

Justin,

If you are satisfied that the prior issues have been addressed, and if you
will verify that the incubation release guidelines are followed (e.g.,
disclaimers in the right places), you have my +1 as well.


If my count is right with this vote there are 3 +1s in favor of the
request (in addition to Justin's and Bill's) and none opposed. What
is the next step?

Thanks
Martin

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[VOTE RESULT] (was: Re: stdcxx snapshot)

[Martin Sebor]

The result of the vote on the request to publish a stdcxx snapshot
is below:

+1 votes: 3

William A. Rowe, Jr. (binding):
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200509.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Justin Erenkrantz (binding):
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200509.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Noel J. Bergman (binding):
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200509.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

 0 votes: 0
-1 votes: 0

Since the request received the minimum of 3 required votes and no
vetoes, it is considered approved. Thanks everyone for their vote
of confidence!

Btw., I plan to put the tarball with the snapshot in
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/snapshots unless someone can
suggest a more appropriate location. Thanks in advance for any
pointers!

Martin

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Re: [VOTE RESULT]

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

Martin Sebor wrote:



I plan to put the tarball with the snapshot in
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/snapshots



They would go under /www/cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/stdcxx.


Thank you! I thought there was a better place but for the life of me
I couldn't find it. (I assume it's safe to just copy it there by hand
and it won't get overwritten by some automatic update process.)



And don't forget that you need to follow the release guidelines in terms of
notices and naming convention, as I noted in my earlier e-mail.


Yes, thanks for the reminder.

The name of the file will be:
   stdcxx-incubating-4.1.2-2005-07-19.tar.gz

The included README has the required disclaimer at the top:
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/incubator/stdcxx/trunk/etc/config/README?rev=240138

Martin

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Re: *** URGENT: Provide your Board Report *NOW* ***

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
[...]

Also, a number of projects have not updated their STATUS files.  Please do
so immediately.  If you do not know how, ask your Mentor.  If that doesn't
work, please notify the Incubator PMC.


Am I correct in assuming that the STATUS file is the same as the
status Web page? If not, could you please explain the relationship
between the two? See the post below for some details:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Also, I updated the stdcxx status page last week with the change
below but I don't believe I have permissions to update the site:
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site-author/projects/stdcxx.html?rev=315083&view=log

Thanks
Martin

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Nov 16 23:55:44 2005

[Martin Sebor]

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

APACHE INCUBATOR PROJECT STATUS:  -*-indented-text-*-
Last modified at [$Date: 2005-01-20 01:12:13 -0500 (Thu, 20 Jan 2005) $]


It has been pointed out a couple of times in the past (see the posts
below) that this status report is out of date. In an effort to prevent
this from causing confusion in the future I would like to propose that
the incubator status file not be posted here unless it is up to date
and unless it has changed since the last time it was posted. If everyone
agrees that this would be a helpful change, how do I go about making
this change?

Thanks
Martin

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/raw/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]/
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/raw/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]/

See also a related Jira issue:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Nov 16 23:55:44 2005

[Martin Sebor]

robert burrell donkin wrote:

On 11/17/05, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:


APACHE INCUBATOR PROJECT STATUS: -*-indented-text-*-
Last modified at [$Date: 2005-01-20 01:12:13 -0500 (Thu, 20 Jan


2005) $]


It has been pointed out a couple of times in the past (see the posts
below) that this status report is out of date. In an effort to prevent
this from causing confusion in the future I would like to propose that
the incubator status file not be posted here unless it is up to date
and unless it has changed since the last time it was posted.




i wonder whether one of ken's reasons for automating this posting was to
encourage folks to keep the status up-to-date.


I suspect you are right. The problem is that it is not being kept up
to date and that people such as myself who are new to this community
and trying to learn have been confused by it.



IMO it's better to fix the source of the confusion than to shoot the
messenger.


That certainly wasn't my goal :)


if you've found some errors in the status page then these
need to
be fixed. if you don't have the required karma then i'd recommend
submitting
a patch in JIRA.


I will be happy to put together a patch but being new here I'm afraid
I'm not sure that my proposed fix is correct. Let me post it here for
review before I put it in Jira. Comments are welcome!

Thanks
Martin
Index: /build/sebor/incubator/STATUS
===
--- /build/sebor/incubator/STATUS   (revision 345672)
+++ /build/sebor/incubator/STATUS   (working copy)
@@ -43,11 +43,11 @@
 o Coming up with a set of bylaws for the project
   (http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=517190)
 
-o All projects under incubation must use a STATUS file (or a
-  status.xml file if the project prefers XML) that contains
-  information the PMC needs about the project. This file must
-  live at the root of the project cvs module
-  (http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=504543)
+o All projects under incubation must maintain a status Web page that
+  contains information the PMC needs about the project. The page is
+  generated from a .html or .cwiki source file which resides in the
+  following Subversion subdirectory
+  
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/site-author/projects/
 
 o Projects under incubation should display appropriate "disclaimers"
   so that it is clear that they are, indeed, under incubation
@@ -80,10 +80,8 @@
 
   -- Who has been identified as the mentor for the incubation?
 
-  -- Are they tracking progress in the file
+  -- Are they tracking progress on the status Web page?
 
-  incubator/projects/{project_name}/STATUS
-
 Copyright:
 
   -- Have the papers that transfer rights to the ASF been received?

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Nov 16 23:55:44 2005

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:
[...]

The note that you have patched below is something
that is listed under the "Resolved Issues" section.
In my opinion that stuff should have been long ago
moved to another file because it is old resolved issues.
Those notes are not completely relevant now.


David, thanks for the feedback!

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. (Or maybe I just
misunderstand the purpose of the Resolved Issues section.) Are you
saying that the guidelines listed in the section may not be relevant
anymore, perhaps because they have been superseded by new ones? If
so, I would certainly agree that they should be removed. In addition,
I would argue that a better place for keeping track of Incubator
issues (both resolved and pending) is in Jira. The status file could
then simply include a couple of links to Jira queries, one for all
resolved issues and another for all pending issues:

  Pending issues: http://tinyurl.com/d3qwr
  Resolved issues: http://tinyurl.com/7d2c3



Lets backup a bit.

You have raised two completely separate issues in the
one email ...

1) The STATUS file for the Incubator project as a whole
is way out-of-date and is confusing.

2) The requirements for each incubating project to
declare their status, are misleading and confusing.

These should be treated as two separate email topics.


Perhaps. I presented (2) as evidence of (1).

In any case how do you suggest I change the patch? Remove the whole
Resolved Issues section?

Thanks
Martin

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Nov 16 23:55:44 2005

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:
[...]

You have raised two completely separate issues in the
one email ...

1) The STATUS file for the Incubator project as a whole
is way out-of-date and is confusing.

2) The requirements for each incubating project to
declare their status, are misleading and confusing.

These should be treated as two separate email topics.


Perhaps. I presented (2) as evidence of (1).

In any case how do you suggest I change the patch? Remove the whole
Resolved Issues section?



It is not up to me. As a group, we need definite
decisions on those two separate items, and then
clearly document them.


Okay. I created a new issue in Jira to keep track of (1):
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7.

(2) is already being tracked in an existing issue:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5.

Martin

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Re: Incubator Guidelines Documentation

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

Jean Anderson and Eddie O'Neil have volunteered to help redact our collected
wisdom into a coherent guide.  Cliff Schmidt will contribute on the legal/IP
side.  Henri Yandell has volunteered to review as a guinea pig.

Anyone who wishes to volunteer is welcomed.  We'll want to get input from
those who have gone through the process, those who are considering it, and
from other groups within the ASF, such as the PRC.


As someone who has been confused about some of the guidelines in the
past I am interested in participating in this effort :) Not sure if
I'll be able to help much except maybe by pointing out the confusing
bits or reviewing your work. If that's not the kind of help you're
looking for then feel free to ignore my response.



If there is sufficient interest, we can create a mailing list for managing
the process, else we can do it here.  Do we want a specific mailing list?


OTOH, if the majority of us are interested it might make sense to
simply have the discussion here. Either would work for me.

Martin

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Re: [doc] "How to graduate from the incubator" topic

[Martin Sebor]

Dain Sundstrom wrote:

On Dec 18, 2005, at 6:46 PM, Jean T. Anderson wrote:

[...]
Here's a starting checklist based on one I started last summer when  
Derby graduated:


[ ] Move svn repo
[ ] Request svn repository/karma move from incubator to new  
location.
***Who should make this request? One of the project's mentors?  
Anyone on the podling pmc?



A sample email would be helpful here.


Preferably in the form of a link to an actual email in the archive
(if this is archived and publicly accessible), or to a Jira issue
if done through Jira.

Martin

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Re: [doc] "How to graduate from the incubator" topic

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:
[...]

There are two separate issues in that item.

One is moving the SVN repository or asking
infra@ to move it.

The other is amending the svn-authorization files
to provide access to the newly-named repositories.
The project PMC chair or other mentor can do that
and there is no need to involve Infrastructure.


FWIW, I wonder if this, IMHO subtle, distinction might be a source
of confusion for people not familiar with the process. I suspect I
would be inclined to ask Infra to handle both tasks.



There are some notes for PMCs which might help
with this Incubator checklist:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html


Out of curiosity, what is the rationale for sending an email to
root when asking for a new account instead of opening an Infra
request in Jira?

Martin

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Re: [policy] bring in full code history on incubated project?

[Martin Sebor]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

Sorry to change the subject...

Can someone make a definitive statement on whether or not code  history 
is brought into our repo from elsewhere when a podling brings  code over?


I can't make a definitive statement but stdcxx didn't (although
I would have liked it to). It seems that requiring all project
to do so could cause problems for commercial projects since the
logs might contain confidential information.

Martin

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Re: [doc] [draft #2] "How to graduate from the incubator" topic

[Martin Sebor]

Jean T. Anderson wrote:
[...]

What did I miss? changes? corrections?

thanks,

 -jean

Incubator Graduation Check List
---

[...]

[ ] Project updates the STATUS file to reflect graduation


FWIW, references to the "STATUS file" have recently been replaced
by "project status" in response to INCUBATOR-5:
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5

It may not be a bad idea to do the same in this document and perhaps
also make the term "project status" a link pointing to its definition
in the Incubation Policy.

Martin

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Re: [doc] [draft #2] "How to graduate from the incubator" topic

[Martin Sebor]

Jean T. Anderson wrote:
[...]

Actually, the STATUS file was in the context of the repo move:

   [ ] Move svn repo from incubator to new location
  ...
   [ ] Project updates the STATUS file to reflect graduation

In other words, the STATUS file in the top level directory of the 
project's svn code repository. But!  I'm seeing that some, but not all 
asf projects have a file at (or near) the top of the repo named STATUS.


I spotted the same "discrepancy" myself a while back (I only found
one podling with a STATUS file -- Beehive). Eventually it turned out
that what was meant by the STATUS file was the podling's status Web
page.


I think that was just how the derby mentor started the derby project off 
and I was generalizing. Should I remove this reference to the project 
repo status file?


That sounds reasonable to me. As I understand from Noel and David's
responses to my query, a file named STATUS is not required to exist.



And doublechecking http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5 
against the updates to 
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html, it looks 
like the incubator status file is 
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/projectname.html . I had that on 
the list as this:


PPMC updates http://incubator.apache.org/projects/${PROJECT}.html 
with link to new website location.


I think I should update that to this instead:

PPMC updates http://incubator.apache.org/projects/projectname.html 
with graduation status and link to new website location.


I would go with what's already in the policy, if only for consistency.
(Even though I personally prefer ${PROJECT} -- it makes it clear even
to notoriously confused people like me that the name of the file is
NOT projectname.html ;-)

Martin

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Re: Corporations and the incubator

[Martin Sebor]

Dain Sundstrom wrote:
[...]
I suggest we add a "For corporations" section to the "Incubator  
Guidelines Documentation" which would contain things, like:


+1 so far. I agree that better, more detailed guidelines would help
organizations or communities not familiar with the process prevent
confusion and avoid misunderstanding.



Don't do a press release.  An incubating project is not officially  part 
of the ASF, and a press release will imply that the project is  part of 
the ASF.  This one really makes ASF members angry, so don't  go here.


-1

Press releases are a means for companies to announce noteworthy
events to the public. Certainly, donating a substantial code base
and committing to maintaining and typically also supporting that
code base free of charge while at the same time taking on the task
of building a diverse community around the donated project and
shepherding it through the incubation process is a noteworthy
event and can be a significant financial undertaking on the part
of the donating organization that the public has the right to know
about.

If there is a perceived problem with these types of announcements
wouldn't a better approach be for the Apache PRC to anticipate and
proactively try to prevent them, perhaps by offering to help with
the press release? A set of guidelines describing what is and isn't
appropriate for such a press release would be helpful as well.



Don't "just" print some t-shirts with the ASF logo or the incubating  
project's logo.  See "Don't do a press release" for reasons.


-1

I see nothing wrong with printing T-shirts or other promotional
items as long as their design is approved by the ASF. Companies
need to be able to make use of their resources to promote the
donated projects in an honest effort to build a community around
them. It doesn't just help the project, it's also free advertising
for the ASF. Since the ASF gets to approve or reject a request
for the use of its trademarks I don't see any risk here.



Do move copyright notices from all source files to the NOTICE file.


+1

I'm not sure exactly what this means but I am certainly in favor
of documenting the process of copyright transfer even better than
it is now.



Do donate to the ASF :)


And they do -- their software :)

Martin

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Re: Corporations and the incubator

[Martin Sebor]

Steven Noels wrote:
[...]
IMHO, actually very _few_ companies issue PR around their ASF 
involvement, considering the fact that the ASF biosphere is one of a 
myriad of tiny (one-person), small (a few people), and then larger 
companies employing individuals which contribute to ASF projects, quite 
a few of them during company hours.


Doesn't that imply that there is no problem with press releases, then,
and thus no reason to prohibit donor companies from putting them out?

[...]


Are the companies not issuing PR lazy asses, or plain dumb? Not willing 
to inform the public?


I would be more inclined to think that they simply do not consider
it worthwhile. Donating a 100 KLOC project and the time of a handful
of developers may not be a big deal to a billion dollar company, but
it most likely is for a company that's fraction of the size. Especially
one that doesn't seek to derive significant immediate revenue from doing
so.

Martin

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Re: Corporations and the incubator

[Martin Sebor]

Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:

On Sat, 2005-12-24 at 13:00 -0700, Martin Sebor wrote:

Don't do a press release.  An incubating project is not officially  part 
of the ASF, and a press release will imply that the project is  part of 
the ASF.  This one really makes ASF members angry, so don't  go here.


-1

Press releases are a means for companies to announce noteworthy
events to the public. 


...

Don't "just" print some t-shirts with the ASF logo or the incubating  
project's logo.  See "Don't do a press release" for reasons.


-1

I see nothing wrong with printing T-shirts or other promotional
items as long as their design is approved by the ASF. 



I disagree on both counts - while going thru incubation it is important
to recognize that a project is *not* part of the ASF until it completes
incubation. If we allow people to do press releases, print t-shirts and
coffee mugs etc., then the rest of the world has no way to distinguish
between a real ASF project and an incubating one. 


I would be surprised if anyone made a decision of any consequence
based on what they saw on a T-shirt or a coffee mug :) I certainly
don't see that happening if the mug or T-shirt simply urges people
to check the project out and get involved in its development, and
when it carries the required disclaimer.



We don't allow code releases from the incubator except with carefully
minted words.


The requirements I know of are the word "incubating" in the name
of the tarball and the disclaimer at the top of the project's README.
With that and with the approval of the Incubator PMC, podlings are
permitted to do releases. So if that's good enough for the actual
code why not for the mug or T-shirt, especially when the approval
comes from the Board itself?


Given we can't do that with t-shirts,


Pardon my ignorance but how is that a given? I ask because I've read
two contradictory opinions. When asked informally, at least three
ASF members (one of them a Board member, and one of them our mentor)
responded favorably to our request to print T-shirts promoting the
STDCXX podling.


its best to just say
no. Press releases could have the disclaimer text- but the reality is
that when the story gets carried by various folks they drop that stuff-
the story simply isn't powerful enough with a disclaimer. So we end up
losing.


My concern is that by restricting how we can talk about new efforts
in the incubator and to whom, the ASF makes it exceedingly difficult
for podlings to build up communities around them. Since the ASF has
accepted the donated projects I would expect it to want to do its
best to help them succeed. Instead, my impression from discussions
such as this one is that there is an atmosphere of distrust of new
projects, especially those donated by third parties.

Martin

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Re: [VOTE] Changes to Incubator process(es)

[Martin Sebor]

Davanum Srinivas wrote:

Folks,

Let's VOTE for the following changes to incubator processes (majority
rules, no vetos). Anyone can vote, but only the PMC member vote's are
binding. If you want to bring up an issue, PLEASE DON'T hijack this
thread, but start a new one. As usual use +1/+0/-0/-1 notation.


Just to be perfectly clear, does PR below stand for Press Release
or any Public Relations in general (i.e., forms of announcements
other than a press release)?



[ ] - Any proposal should hit [EMAIL PROTECTED] first, No PR before that.

[ ] - Any PR should be vetted by PRC, No Excuses.

[ ] - Any new proposal should have 3 ASF Members / Officers as mentors
(without regard to affiliation)

[ ] - Any new proposal should list at least one person as a
infrastucture volunteer.

[ ] - A sponsoring PMC should hold their VOTE to sponsor a proposal or
IP Clearance 72 hours *AFTER* it is posted on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[ ] - Any existing committer from any Apache project should be able to
volunteer to work on the proposed project within the 72 hours. Any
later, it would be through regular karma process. (To promote
inclusion/diversification from day one)

[ ] - IP Clearance needs to be preceded by a proposal posted to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] as well

[ ] - IP Clearance has to be OK'ed by Incubator PMC VOTE (before code
gets checked in to a sponsoring project's SVN)

[ ] - Petition the Board to require Incubator PMC VOTE to begin
incubation process even for projects that other PMC's want to sponsor.

[ ] - Within 72 hours of a new project hitting the [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailing list, that any incubator PMC member can call for an advisory
vote and comment period if they see issues with what's been presented
by the sponsoring PMC.

PS: I added the latest suggestion from Bill as the last item.
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

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Re: [doc] "Getting Started in the Incubator" topic

[Martin Sebor]

Jean T. Anderson wrote:

Jean T. Anderson wrote:

Here's another starter installment for the "Incubator Guidelines 
Documentation" project Noel posted at
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200512.mbox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] 






I initialized a page for new committers here and will incorporate 
feedback as it gets posted:


  http://incubator.apache.org/guides/committer.html


Just a few minor nits :)

The name of the commits list is typically -commits (plural). I would
also suggest to prepend a hyphen to the generic names of the lists,
i.e.,

  "Subscribe to the -user, -dev, and -commits lists for your project."

In this sentence

  "Become aware of what else is going on in the Incubator by subscribing
  to the general at incubator.apache.org list."

the "general at incubator.apache.org" is a link but not the mailto:
kind implied by the text. I suggest to change the text so as not
to imply the mailto: kind of a link (along the same lines as the
community, infrastructure, and legal-discuss lists in the bullet
below). Ditto in the Questions section.

Btw., I'm curious if there is a recommended convention for the use
of email addresses on our Web pages: should they be obfuscated like
the one above or is it okay to use the actual email address?

Also, I noticed a typo here:
  http://incubator.apache.org/learn/newcommitters.html

"signicant" should read "significant."

Martin

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[VOTE] publish stdcxx 4.1.3

[Martin Sebor]

The stdcxx community voted on and has approved a proposal to release
stdcxx 4.1.3. Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation
Policy and with the endorsement of two of our mentors we would now
like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
tarball on the stdcxx Download page.

Please vote by 6 PM MDT Monday, 1/31.

Thanks
Martin

Proposal:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200601.mbox/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]

Vote result:
Re: [VOTE RESULT] (was: [VOTE] publish stdcxx 4.1.3, take 2)
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200601.mbox/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]

Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases

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Incubator PMC members

[Martin Sebor]

Is this list up to date?

http://incubator.apache.org/whoweare.html#PMC+%28Project+Management+Commitee%29

I assume Justin and Bill Rowe are both members but I don't their
names there.

Thanks
Martin

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Re: Incubator PMC members

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
[...]

Referential integrity.  :-\  The OFFICIAL LIST of PMC members for all PMCs
is maintained in the committers module.  If someone wants to write a script
that will keep the web site current with the official roster, fine.  Else it
will get updated when someone rememebers.


I assume the committers module is this file:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/committee-info.txt

May I suggest to include a link to the document on the page along
with a date when the names were last updated from the document?
That way readers will know where to get the most up to date info.

Martin

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Re: Incubator PMC members

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

Martin Sebor wrote:



https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/committee-info.txt
May I suggest to include a link to the document on the page along
with a date when the names were last updated from the document?



There are dates in the file.  Those without dates have been around since
before that policy was established.


I meant a date on the Web page with the date of the last time this
portion of the page was updated from the committee-info.txt.





That way readers will know where to get the most up to date info.



Since that is a private repository, how is a public link going to benefit
anyone who isn't a Committer?


I would have found it useful since I didn't know (or rather forgot)
about the committer module (I had to look up the term on Google to
find it. I suspect there might be others like me around here :)

Martin

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[VOTE RESULT] (was Re: [VOTE] publish stdcxx 4.1.3)

[Martin Sebor]

Here's is the result of the vote to release stdcxx 4.1.3:

+1 votes: 4

Davanum Srinivas (binding): http://tinyurl.com/a7j9e
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200601.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Jim Jagielski (binding): http://tinyurl.com/clr6p
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200601.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Justin Erenkrantz (binding): http://tinyurl.com/769cp
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200601.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Bill Rowe (binding): (see Justin's vote)

 0 votes: 0
-1 votes: 0

Since we have exceeded the required minimum of 3 votes with none
opposed the request is granted.

Thanks everyone for their vote!
Martin

Martin Sebor wrote:

The stdcxx community voted on and has approved a proposal to release
stdcxx 4.1.3. Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation
Policy and with the endorsement of two of our mentors we would now
like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
tarball on the stdcxx Download page.

Please vote by 6 PM MDT Monday, 1/31.

Thanks
Martin

Proposal:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200601.mbox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Vote result:
Re: [VOTE RESULT] (was: [VOTE] publish stdcxx 4.1.3, take 2)
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200601.mbox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases



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Re: [heads-up] docs: please commit any outstanding changes

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:

David Crossley wrote:


If anyone has any outstanding changes to project status reports
or to the main docs, then please commit those changes.

The conversion process will be commenced on Tuesday GMT.

Please speak up if you need us to hold-off for a while.



Okay, the conversion is finished now. See new instructions
for updating status reports and other documents.
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html


I'm a little distressed to see the conversion process has messed
up the formatting of the original HTML that I manually maintained
for readability. Specifically, many of the terminating tags (such
as ) are not indented as they ought to be and instead are in
column 1. I don't suppose there is an easy way to regenerate the
page so as to preserve more of the original formatting, is there?

Martin

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Re: SSH and SVN passwords

[Martin Sebor]

Could someone kindly describe (or point us to a document explaining)
how to reset a user password at people.apache.org?

The XMLBeans/C++ committers would like to start setting up the Web
site and working on the project but none of them apparently ever got
their user passwords from root. I assume they need to log in to their
account and run svnpasswd before they can commit anything.

Thanks!
Martin

Allen Brookes wrote:

I was told this didn't show up on the archives so I'm sending it again.

 


Allen

 


-Original Message-
From: Allen Brookes 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:12 AM

To: 'general@incubator.apache.org'
Subject: SSH and SVN passwords

 


Hi,

 


I am a newbie committer on the xmlbeanscxx project.  As far as I can
tell I never received passwords for SSH or SVN.  Can someone tell me how
to go about getting these?

 


Thanks,

Allen

 




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Re: SSH and SVN passwords

[Martin Sebor]

robert burrell donkin wrote:

On 2/1/06, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Could someone kindly describe (or point us to a document explaining)
how to reset a user password at people.apache.org?




i don't that this is documented anywhere (or indeed whether there's
concensus about the right way to do this).

but infrastructure workflow is handled through JIRA (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA) so creating an issue is
probably the best bet.


Thanks. I looked through the Jira categories/components but couldn't
find anything quite appropriate. But I'm sure it doesn't hurt to try
so we'll give it a whirl -- Allen, please go ahead an open an INFRA
request.

FWIW, Allen has been in contact with someone from the INFRA group
for some time now but so far hasn't gotten a clear answer, so if
someone from INFRA who's reading this could quickly help him out
he would very much appreciate it. To reiterate, his problem is
that has never received his ssh password from root.

Martin


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Re: SSH and SVN passwords

[Martin Sebor]

Martin Sebor wrote:

robert burrell donkin wrote:


On 2/1/06, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Could someone kindly describe (or point us to a document explaining)
how to reset a user password at people.apache.org?





i don't that this is documented anywhere (or indeed whether there's
concensus about the right way to do this).

but infrastructure workflow is handled through JIRA (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA) so creating an issue is
probably the best bet.



Thanks. I looked through the Jira categories/components but couldn't
find anything quite appropriate. But I'm sure it doesn't hurt to try
so we'll give it a whirl -- Allen, please go ahead an open an INFRA
request.


Allen, if you haven't done so yet, please open the INFRA request
in Jira as Robert suggested (I don't see it in Jira). You should
also vote on INFRA-443 that I just updated with the same request:
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-443

Martin

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Re: XmlBeans/C++

[Martin Sebor]

Michael Yoder wrote:
Or actually, as an XmlBeans/C+ committer, how 
would I log into my account?


Michael, as I said to you privately, I would suggest the following
strategy:

1. Vote on INFRA-443 that I recently updated with a request to have
   all your passwords re-sent:
   http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-443

2. Vote on INFRA-712 that Allen opened earlier today with the same
   request: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-712.

3. Send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] requesting to have your password
   re-sent to your Rogue Wave email address.

4. If none of this bears fruit, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking
   for help. This would not be appropriate as the first or second
   step but I believe it will be justified if you fail to get
   results any other way.

5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you get your password :)

Martin



Thanks,

Michael



-Original Message-
From: Michael Yoder 
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:44 AM

To: 'general@incubator.apache.org'
Subject: XmlBeans/C++


Hi,

I work for Rogue Wave Software, which is developing
XmlBeans/C++.

I would like to know how I can contribute to the
project.

Thanks,

Michael




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Re: [doc] podling software releases

[Martin Sebor]

Jean T. Anderson wrote:
This is a follow up on 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-14, which I opened to 
track this doc topic.

[...]

(2) Process details

I'd like to modify this sentence:

"Therefore, should a Podling decide it wishes to perform a release, the 
Podling SHALL formally request the Incubator PMC approve such a release."


And incorporate specific details from 
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200601.mbox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
:


"Therefore, should a Podling decide it wishes to perform a release, the 
Podling SHALL hold a vote on the Podling -dev list. If the majority of 
all votes is positive, then send a summary of that vote to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and formally request the Incubator PMC approve such a 
release. Three +1 Incubator PMC votes are required."


IMO, this is a big improvement :) It would be helpful to also
include a link to an examples of each such vote (i.e., on -dev
and general). I recall spending quite a bit of time searching
the archives for such example before the first stdcxx release.

Martin

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Re: [doc] podling software releases

[Martin Sebor]

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


[...]
"Therefore, should a Podling decide it wishes to perform a release, the 
Podling SHALL hold a vote on the Podling -dev list.



dev list or ppmc list?  Only PMC members' votes are binding for
full TLPs; I suggest having the vote on the dev list as mentioned
but only the PPMC members' votes being binding.


I thought every committer's vote counted as binding.

I also thought that not every committer was necessarily a PPMC member.

I'm afraid I'm still not clear on who is a PPMC member and exactly
how a podling's committer becomes one. Is every initial committer
automatically a PPMC member? It would be nice to formalize and
document this process as well.

For the record, this was discussed in the past but I don't think
anyone was able describe the process (and it seemed like there
wasn't one):

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200509.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Martin

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Re: [doc] podling software releases

[Martin Sebor]

Jean T. Anderson wrote:
[...]

it should be public vote, so on the public -dev list.  Here's a
suggested refinement:

"Therefore, should a Podling decide it wishes to perform a release, the
Podling SHALL hold a vote on the Podling's public -dev list and notify
the Podling's PPMC list that the vote has been called.


Hmm. This is different from what stdcxx has been practicing (we
never notified our PPMC since all PPMC members are committers and
the active ones participate on -dev). What would be the purpose
of this notification? OTOH, I could see that it might be important
for a podling to notify a sponsoring TLP's PMC. My understanding
is that only podlings on the TLP track have a PPMC and all others
use their sponsoring TLP project's PMC. Isn't that correct?


At least three +1
votes are required (see guidelines at
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html), and only the PPMC member
votes are binding.


IMO, the PPMC/committer question needs to be clarified. In fact,
if my understanding about TLPs and PMC/PPMCs is correct, this
could not be correct.

Without clarifying this I wouldn't know whose votes to count :)

Martin


If the majority of all votes is positive, then send a
summary of that vote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and formally request the
Incubator PMC approve such a release. Three +1 Incubator PMC votes are
required."

thanks for all the careful feedback,

-jean

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Re: [doc] podling software releases

[Martin Sebor]

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Good info, thanks! The relationship (committers == PPMC) seems
reasonable to me, especially in light of the current discussion
of releases.

Martin



Martin Sebor wrote:


I thought every committer's vote counted as binding.



Grey-area time here..  In projects where committers == PMC,
that's the case.  The confusion probably has its origins
in the HTTP server project back before there *was* an ASF
or PMCs.  There were just committers and non-committers.

Over time, and I'm sure Roy can/will give history and point
to a specific document, but the answer now is that because
of the structure and formal/legal incorporated nature of
the ASF, only PMCer votes are binding.  Projects that
treat non-PMCer's votes as binding are mistaken; Roy has
the chapter and verse.



I also thought that not every committer was necessarily a PPMC member.



Correct, and that's another area of confusion and contention.
Some people think that for TLP, committers should == PMC, and
for podlings committers should == PPMC.  But not everyone
feels that way.

Personally, I think that if you trust someone to the extent
of giving hir direct access to the repositories, you should
also trust hir to be part of the PMC (such as having a
binding vote, being able to vote on other potential
committers, et cetera).  To put it another way, s/he has
earned merit sufficient to get repository karma.  Why
should s/he have to earn *more* merit to be on the PMC?
And how would that merit be earned?
- --
#kenP-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist  http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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Re: Status page committed

[Martin Sebor]

Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

On 2/9/06, Allen Brookes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The xmlbeanscxx status page has been committed.  I'm told that
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html
  needs to be updated with
a link to our status page.  Can someone please do this or let me know who to
ask to get this done?



You should update it yourself.  See
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html for instructions.


This might be my fault -- I told Allen that only ASF members had
the required permissions to generate the site. If other committers
can do it too I can take care of generating it while Allen is on
vacation this week.

Martin


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Re: how to request new project resources

[Martin Sebor]

David Crossley wrote:
[...]

So how about this ...

For mail issues, send to apmail@ + Jira.
Use the provided template.

For svn creation, send to infrastructure@ + Jira
Use the provided template.

For account creation, send to root@ using separate
requests for each new committer. Follow the instructions
and template at http://www.apache.org/dev/#pmc


Wouldn't be simpler to open Jira issues (under the appropriate
category) for all types of requests?

Martin

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Re: ezmlm stripping Outlook attachments

[Martin Sebor]

Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:

On 8/7/07, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

We've had a number of complaints about ezmlm stripping plain text
attachments to posts such as patches sent by Microsoft Outlook.
Other mailers (e.g., Mozilla) don't have this problem.


IIRC this was a measure put in place by infrastructure after numerous
complaints about viruses being mailed to lists by outlook. ask on
infrastructure for a definitive answer.


Will do.

FWIW, after some experimenting we've figured out that Outlook
sends text attachments with extensions other than .txt with
MIME type of application/octet-stream, and encodes those with
the .txt extension in base64. So far no one on stdcxx-dev has
been able to figure out how to make it send them as plain/text.
People have been using other mailers to send to the list. Is
Outlook really this bad or are we overlooking something? Are
there any Outlook users here who have a better experience?




Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with it other
that to switch to a different mailer?


inline short text after the email body eg.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/james-server-dev/200708.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

longer text is better in JIRA


Right. That's been our approach.




More generally, is there
a document that describes the do's and don'ts of posting to
Apache lists?


some but they could do with some more work :-/

eg http://www.apache.org/dev/contrib-email-tips.html


Thanks! These are useful guidelines on the mailing list etiquette.



anyone interested in pulling together some better documentation?


I'd be happy to help by sharing/documenting our experiences but
before I try to impart our wisdom on the masses I'd like to hear
how others have dealt with the problem.

Martin

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Jira closure and resolution user and date tracking

[Martin Sebor]

In an effort to improve our scheduling processes stdcxx is trying
to find a better way to manage our issues. One feature that I think
would help us is the ability to search for issues resolved and/or
closed between given dates. Our Jira doesn't seem to provide the
feature out of the box, although there is a plugin that apparently
makes this possible.

Before I request that INFRA install this plugin I'm curious if
other projects have a similar need and if so, how they manage
without it.

The pugin is here:
http://confluence.atlassian.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=195827

Thanks
Martin

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Re: Jira closure and resolution user and date tracking

[Martin Sebor]

Marshall Schor wrote:

To search for issues resolved or closed between given dates, you can
come close by searching for issues with the filter set to resolved or
closed, and then use the "updated" fields to specify the date range.

Maybe this doesn't quite do what you want though - or does it?


Thanks. You're right, it doesn't do quite what we need because of
the potential for false positives. We also tried using the custom
Resolved field but as has just been pointed out to me on the Jira
forum, the database (most likely) needs to be reindexed before the
field can be used to query existing records. Perhaps we should
start by requesting that first.

Martin




-Marshall

Martin Sebor wrote:

In an effort to improve our scheduling processes stdcxx is trying
to find a better way to manage our issues. One feature that I think
would help us is the ability to search for issues resolved and/or
closed between given dates. Our Jira doesn't seem to provide the
feature out of the box, although there is a plugin that apparently
makes this possible.

Before I request that INFRA install this plugin I'm curious if
other projects have a similar need and if so, how they manage
without it.

The pugin is here:
http://confluence.atlassian.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=195827

Thanks
Martin

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Re: Jira closure and resolution user and date tracking

[Martin Sebor]

FYI: I've filed an INFRA request to reindex Jira to populate
the Resolved custom field for existing issues:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1366

Martin


Martin Sebor wrote:
> 
> Marshall Schor wrote:
>> To search for issues resolved or closed between given dates, you can
>> come close by searching for issues with the filter set to resolved or
>> closed, and then use the "updated" fields to specify the date range.
>> 
>> Maybe this doesn't quite do what you want though - or does it?
> 
> Thanks. You're right, it doesn't do quite what we need because of
> the potential for false positives. We also tried using the custom
> Resolved field but as has just been pointed out to me on the Jira
> forum, the database (most likely) needs to be reindexed before the
> field can be used to query existing records. Perhaps we should
> start by requesting that first.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>> 
>> -Marshall
>> 
>> Martin Sebor wrote:
>>> In an effort to improve our scheduling processes stdcxx is trying
>>> to find a better way to manage our issues. One feature that I think
>>> would help us is the ability to search for issues resolved and/or
>>> closed between given dates. Our Jira doesn't seem to provide the
>>> feature out of the box, although there is a plugin that apparently
>>> makes this possible.
>>>
>>> Before I request that INFRA install this plugin I'm curious if
>>> other projects have a similar need and if so, how they manage
>>> without it.
>>>
>>> The pugin is here:
>>> http://confluence.atlassian.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=195827
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Martin
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Jira-closure-and-resolution-user-and-date-tracking-tf4430953.html#a12760880
Sent from the Apache Incubator - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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[VOTE] graduate stdcxx to TLP

[Martin Sebor]

After over two years in the incubator, two releases under our belt
(one snapshot and one official release) and a third one coming,
the stdcxx community with the support of our mentors feel that we
are ready to propose to the Incubator PMC to graduate stdcxx to
a Top Level Project. See the following vote thread in the archives:

http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE--ready-to-graduate-tf4386148.html#a12504335

To that end we have prepared the resolution for the Board below
to be presented for consideration at the upcoming Board meeting.

We invite everyone to vote to approve this proposal.

Thank you.
Martin


Establish the Apache C++ Standard Library project:

   WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests
   of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to
   establish a Project, to be known as "Apache C++ Standard Library",
   a portable implementation of the C++ Standard library as specified
   in ISO/IEC 14882, International Standard for Programming Languages
   -- C++, for distribution at no charge to the public.

   NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
   (PMC), to be known as the Apache C++ Standard Library Project
   Management Committee, is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of
   the Foundation; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC be and hereby
   is charged with the creation and maintenance of "Apache C++
   Standard Library"; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
   Library" be and hereby is created, the person holding such office
   to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
   of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC, and to have primary
   responsibility for management of the projects within the scope
   of responsibility of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC; and be
   it further

   RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby
   are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache C++
   Standard Library PMC:

   *  Andrew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Anton Pevtsov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Amit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Eric Lemings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Heidi Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Farid Zaripov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Liviu Nicoara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Tim Triemstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  William A. Rowe, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Martin Sebor be
   appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
   Library, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
   of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
   death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
   or until a successor is appointed; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library Project be and
   hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
   Apache C++ Standard Library podling; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
   C++ Standard Library podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
   PMC are hereafter discharged.

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Re: [VOTE] graduate stdcxx to TLP

[Martin Sebor]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

I would like to see the legal stuff resolved first.  I don't believe
that we should release a project with existing copyright issues.  If
this were to mean that stdcxx graduation would wait until November's
Board meeting, I'd be comfortable with that.  How extensive is the
issue, and how long will it take to complete?



It's not a 'copyright issue' per se (as all the paperwork is in
place), but rather ensuring the license headers follow the currently
recommended template.  Many of our other projects don't follow the
templates - and, yes, this will be a blocker for a release - but I
don't think it needs to hold up graduation.


Is it just a matter of the current template versus an older one?  Is
everything properly under at least some form of the ASF license header?  It
seems that it should be a rather straightforward and mechanical item to
clear up.


I agree, and I believe these concerns have been addressed. The record
of changes made to resolve this issue can be found here (the specific
patches are referenced in the subtasks):
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-552

Martin

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Re: [VOTE] graduate stdcxx to TLP

[Martin Sebor]

Thank you all for your comments. I assume everyone's questions
so far have been satisfactorily answered and concerns addressed.
Below is the resolution updated as Bill suggested. In the absence
of further discussion I plan to close the vote at the end of the
business day tomorrow (US/Mountain time).

Martin

Establish the Apache C++ Standard Library project:

   WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests
   of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to
   establish a Project, to be known as "Apache C++ Standard Library",
   also known by the abbreviation Apache stdcxx, a portable
   implementation of the C++ Standard library as specified in ISO/IEC
   14882, International Standard for Programming Languages -- C++,
   for distribution at no charge to the public.

   NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
   (PMC), to be known as the Apache C++ Standard Library Project
   Management Committee, is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of
   the Foundation; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC be and hereby
   is charged with the creation and maintenance of "Apache C++
   Standard Library"; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
   Library" be and hereby is created, the person holding such office
   to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
   of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC, and to have primary
   responsibility for management of the projects within the scope
   of responsibility of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC; and be
   it further

   RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby
   are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache C++
   Standard Library PMC:

   *  Andrew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Anton Pevtsov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Amit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Eric Lemings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Heidi Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Farid Zaripov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Liviu Nicoara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  Tim Triemstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   *  William A. Rowe, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Martin Sebor be
   appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
   Library, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
   of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
   death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
   or until a successor is appointed; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library Project be and
   hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
   Apache C++ Standard Library podling; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
   C++ Standard Library podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
   PMC are hereafter discharged.

Martin Sebor wrote:

After over two years in the incubator, two releases under our belt
(one snapshot and one official release) and a third one coming,
the stdcxx community with the support of our mentors feel that we
are ready to propose to the Incubator PMC to graduate stdcxx to
a Top Level Project. See the following vote thread in the archives:

http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE--ready-to-graduate-tf4386148.html#a12504335

To that end we have prepared the resolution for the Board below
to be presented for consideration at the upcoming Board meeting.

We invite everyone to vote to approve this proposal.

Thank you.
Martin


Establish the Apache C++ Standard Library project:

   WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests
   of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to
   establish a Project, to be known as "Apache C++ Standard Library",
   a portable implementation of the C++ Standard library as specified
   in ISO/IEC 14882, International Standard for Programming Languages
   -- C++, for distribution at no charge to the public.

   NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
   (PMC), to be known as the Apache C++ Standard Library Project
   Management Committee, is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of
   the Foundation; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC be and hereby
   is charged with the creation and maintenance of "Apache C++
   Standard Library"; and be it further

   RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
   Library" be and hereby is created, the person holding such office
   to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
   of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC, and to have primary
   responsibility for managemen

[VOTE RESULT] graduate stdcxx to TLP

[Martin Sebor]

The vote to recommend stdcxx graduation and to forward the resolution
below to the Board at the next meeting passes with the following results:

+1 votes:
Bertrand Delacretaz
Craig L Russell
Justin Erenkrantz 
Leo Simons
Martijn Dashorst (non-binding)
Robert Burrell Donkin
Stefan Bodewig
William A. Rowe, Jr.

Thanks again!
Martin


Martin Sebor wrote:
> 
> Thank you all for your comments. I assume everyone's questions
> so far have been satisfactorily answered and concerns addressed.
> Below is the resolution updated as Bill suggested. In the absence
> of further discussion I plan to close the vote at the end of the
> business day tomorrow (US/Mountain time).
> 
> Martin
> 
> Establish the Apache C++ Standard Library project:
> 
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests
> of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to
> establish a Project, to be known as "Apache C++ Standard Library",
> also known by the abbreviation Apache stdcxx, a portable
> implementation of the C++ Standard library as specified in ISO/IEC
> 14882, International Standard for Programming Languages -- C++,
> for distribution at no charge to the public.
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
> (PMC), to be known as the Apache C++ Standard Library Project
> Management Committee, is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of
> the Foundation; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC be and hereby
> is charged with the creation and maintenance of "Apache C++
> Standard Library"; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
> Library" be and hereby is created, the person holding such office
> to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC, and to have primary
> responsibility for management of the projects within the scope
> of responsibility of the Apache C++ Standard Library PMC; and be
> it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby
> are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache C++
> Standard Library PMC:
> 
> *  Andrew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Anton Pevtsov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Amit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Eric Lemings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Heidi Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Farid Zaripov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Liviu Nicoara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  Tim Triemstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *  William A. Rowe, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Martin Sebor be
> appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache C++ Standard
> Library, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
> of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the Apache C++ Standard Library Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> Apache C++ Standard Library podling; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> C++ Standard Library podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> PMC are hereafter discharged.
> 
> Martin Sebor wrote:
>> After over two years in the incubator, two releases under our belt
>> (one snapshot and one official release) and a third one coming,
>> the stdcxx community with the support of our mentors feel that we
>> are ready to propose to the Incubator PMC to graduate stdcxx to
>> a Top Level Project. See the following vote thread in the archives:
>> 
>> http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE--ready-to-graduate-tf4386148.html#a12504335
>> 
>> To that end we have prepared the resolution for the Board below
>> to be presented for consideration at the upcoming Board meeting.
>> 
>> We invite everyone to vote to approve this proposal.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> Establish the Apache C++ Standard Library project:
>> 
>>WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests
>>of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to
>>establish a Project, to be known as "Apache C++ Standard Lib

Re: Graduation: how do we check "three or more independent committers" ?

[Martin Sebor]

Roland Weber wrote:

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

[...]

c) If yes, to what extent (along the lines of Matt's "more than 4
hours a workday" threshold)?


4 hours a day sounds like a very high threshold to me. I'm active
on my private time, and I often can't spend 4 hours a week.


FWIW, it's not clear to me at which point of a committer's
involvement on a podling should this rule apply. When they
are voted in? Just prior to graduation? Or is it meant to
be an average over their entire participation (IMO, this
would be more fair than either of the other two options
but probably impractical to calculate with much accuracy).

People's schedules change over time. There might be committers
who initially get involved on their own only to be moved into
a part time or even full time role working on the project by
their employer, and the other way around.

Martin


b and c sound like something that should better be merged into
a single question, but I guess we're not at that stage of the
discussion yet.

cheers,
  Roland


d) Which other committers do you have a "backchannel" with, i.e. who
do you regularly talk to outside of the project's mailing lists?

I think d) is also an important measure of independence, as it's hard
for people who meet for coffee every day to restate on the public
lists everything that happens on their backchannel.

-Bertrand

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[VOTE] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

The stdcxx community has just successfully closed a vote to release
stdcxx 4.2.0. In accordance with the Releases section of the Incubation
Policy we request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
tarball containing the release on the stdcxx Download page.

This vote will close in the usual 72 hours, on Friday, October 26 at
8PM MDT. See http://tinyurl.com/3cnwoj for the countdown.

Thanks
Martin

Vote result (contains links to the tarball and README containing the
required incubation artifacts):
http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE-RESULT--release-stdcxx-4.2.0-%28candidate-7%29-p13377405.html

Stdcxx Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

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Re: [VOTE] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

Has anyone had a chance to review this release? Did we miss something
that needs to be addressed in order to appove the request?

Thanks
Martin


Martin Sebor wrote:
> 
> The stdcxx community has just successfully closed a vote to release
> stdcxx 4.2.0. In accordance with the Releases section of the Incubation
> Policy we request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
> tarball containing the release on the stdcxx Download page.
> 
> This vote will close in the usual 72 hours, on Friday, October 26 at
> 8PM MDT. See http://tinyurl.com/3cnwoj for the countdown.
> 
> Thanks
> Martin
> 
> Vote result (contains links to the tarball and README containing the
> required incubation artifacts):
> http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE-RESULT--release-stdcxx-4.2.0-%28candidate-7%29-p13377405.html
> 
> Stdcxx Download page:
> http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

Thanks Bill and Thilo for your votes! We need two more binding votes to
approve the release. I extended the vote to 120 hours to give everyone
more time to download the tarball and check it out over the weekend. The
vote will close on Sunday, October 28 at 8:00PM US/Mountain time. See
the following page for the new countdown: http://tinyurl.com/2jfkf2


Martin Sebor wrote:
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to review this release? Did we miss something
> that needs to be addressed in order to appove the request?
> 
> Thanks
> Martin
> 
> 
> Martin Sebor wrote:
>> 
>> The stdcxx community has just successfully closed a vote to release
>> stdcxx 4.2.0. In accordance with the Releases section of the Incubation
>> Policy we request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
>> tarball containing the release on the stdcxx Download page.
>> 
>> This vote will close in the usual 72 hours, on Friday, October 26 at
>> 8PM MDT. See http://tinyurl.com/3cnwoj for the countdown.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Martin
>> 
>> Vote result (contains links to the tarball and README containing the
>> required incubation artifacts):
>> http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE-RESULT--release-stdcxx-4.2.0-%28candidate-7%29-p13377405.html
>> 
>> Stdcxx Download page:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

Thank you! We need one more binding vote to approve the release.

For conveniece, the link to the tarball is here:
http://people.apache.org/~sebor/stdcxx-4.2.0-rc-7/stdcxx-incubating-4.2.0.tar.gz

Martin


Matthieu Riou-5 wrote:
> 
> On 10/26/07, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks Bill and Thilo for your votes! We need two more binding votes to
>> approve the release. I extended the vote to 120 hours to give everyone
>> more time to download the tarball and check it out over the weekend. The
>> vote will close on Sunday, October 28 at 8:00PM US/Mountain time. See
>> the following page for the new countdown: http://tinyurl.com/2jfkf2
> 
> 
> The release file looks good to me, a random check didn't show any missing
> header and the LICENSE and NOTICE files are okay. Please next time include
> a
> direct link to the tarball in your general@ vote e-mail, it's really not a
> biggy but it's more convenient that way.
> 
> Here's my +1.
> 
> Matthieu
> 
> Martin Sebor wrote:
>> >
>> > Has anyone had a chance to review this release? Did we miss something
>> > that needs to be addressed in order to appove the request?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Martin
>> >
>> >
>> > Martin Sebor wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The stdcxx community has just successfully closed a vote to release
>> >> stdcxx 4.2.0. In accordance with the Releases section of the
>> Incubation
>> >> Policy we request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
>> >> tarball containing the release on the stdcxx Download page.
>> >>
>> >> This vote will close in the usual 72 hours, on Friday, October 26 at
>> >> 8PM MDT. See http://tinyurl.com/3cnwoj for the countdown.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Martin
>> >>
>> >> Vote result (contains links to the tarball and README containing the
>> >> required incubation artifacts):
>> >>
>> http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE-RESULT--release-stdcxx-4.2.0-%28candidate-7%29-p13377405.html
>> >>
>> >> Stdcxx Download page:
>> >> http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html
>> >>
>> >> -
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE--approve-stdcxx-4.2.0-release-tf4681976.html#a13436826
>> Sent from the Apache Incubator - General mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
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> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

Kevan Miller wrote:
> 
> +1. I'm not sure if my vote is binding or not.
> 

Thank you! Only votes of Incubator PMC members are binding.
Unless you are one we still need one more IPMC vote. Could
we have an IPMC member either confirm that Kevan's vote
counts or kindly check out the tarball and give us the last
binding yay?


Kevan Miller wrote:
> 
> I did not build (or test). However, RAT and brief of inspection of
> source looked good.
> 
> One comment -- I see that many source files contain Rogue Wave
> Software copyrights (e.g. src/access.h) and one source file contains
> an HP copyright (i.e. src/parisc/atomic.s). If at all possible, these
> copyrights should be removed from your source (by the copyright
> holder, of course) -- they are already in your NOTICE. Hmm. Although
> the HP copyright is 2002 in your source file and 1994 in your NOTICE
> file...
> 
> --kevan
> 

With the exception of src/parisc/atomic.s all of the rest of the files
that bear the HP copyright are from 1994 (the HP STL). I'll update
NOTICE.txt to on trunk reflect the atomic.s date of copyright.
My understanding of the HP license is that it must appear in all
files so we wouldn't be able to remove it without HP's permission.
I'll have to check with Rogue Wave legal to see what they think
about moving our copyright notices to just one file.

Thanks again.
Martin
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[VOTE RESULT] approve stdcxx 4.2.0 release

[Martin Sebor]

The request to release stdcxx 4.2.0 has reached the required
minimum of three binding +1 votes with no other votes recorded.

  Kevan Miller
  Matthieu Riou
  Thilo Goetz   (non-binding)
  William A. Rowe, Jr.

Thank you!
Martin

Martin Sebor wrote:

The stdcxx community has just successfully closed a vote to release
stdcxx 4.2.0. In accordance with the Releases section of the Incubation
Policy we request the permission of the Incubator PMC to publish the
tarball containing the release on the stdcxx Download page.

This vote will close in the usual 72 hours, on Friday, October 26 at
8PM MDT. See http://tinyurl.com/3cnwoj for the countdown.

Thanks
Martin

Vote result (contains links to the tarball and README containing the
required incubation artifacts):
http://www.nabble.com/-VOTE-RESULT--release-stdcxx-4.2.0-%28candidate-7%29-p13377405.html 



Stdcxx Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

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[ANNOUNCE] Apache C++ Standard Library 4.2.0 released

[Martin Sebor]

October 29, 2007 -- The Apache C++ Standard Library project is pleased
to announce that the official stdcxx 4.2.0 release is now available for
download from the following location:
http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/stdcxx/releases/

For additional details see the stdcxx Download page:
http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html#releases

The Apache C++ Standard Library is a full implementation of the C++
Standard Library conforming to the ISO/IEC 14882:2003 international
standard for the programming language C++.

4.2.0 is a "minor" release of the library that is source and backward
binary compatible with stdcxx 4.1.x. Programs linked with 4.1.x can
safely upgrade to 4.2.0 without needing to be recompiled. Forward
compatibility (i.e., the ability to "downgrade" programs linked with
stdcxx 4.2.0 to stdcxx 4.1.x) is not guaranteed.

This release of stdcxx supports a number of new platforms (for a full
list see the project README file) and contains a large number of bug
fixes and a number of improvements. For a complete list of issues
resolved in this release of the project see:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=12311754

Thanks to everyone who helped make this release possible!


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Re: [Fwd: ASF Board Meeting Summary - November 14, 2007]

[Martin Sebor]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

Congratulations from your mentors, Justin and I, well done guys!


Great! Thanks for all your help along the way! We look forward
to continuing to work with both of you on the stdcxx TLP in the
future.

Martin



 Original Message 
Subject: ASF Board Meeting Summary - November 14, 2007
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:34:54 -0500
From: Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The ASF board had their monthly meeting yesterday, in a nice
but echo-y room (Thanks to Concom for arranging the room)
here at ApacheCon US in Atlanta. It was held face-to-face with
all directors physically present.

At the meeting we voted on 2 resolutions, both of which
handily passed. As a result, we have 2 new TLPs:

  o The Apache C++ Standard Library Project
 - Incubator graduation
 - Martin Sebor PMC Chair

  o The Apache HttpComponents Project
 - Jakarta "graduation"
 - Erik Abele PMC Chair

Congrats to the PMCs and chairs.






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Re: [VOTE] Graduate FtpServer

[Martin Sebor]

Niall Pemberton wrote:

On Dec 13, 2007 5:46 AM, Niclas Hedhman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wednesday 12 December 2007 19:45, Niall Pemberton wrote:


I couldn't see a STATUS file in svn

You have mention this for the Yoko project as well, and I start to wonder who
of us two has misunderstood what the so called "status file" is.

http://incubator.apache.org/guides/sites.html says that the "status file" is
the http://incubator.apache.org/projects/{podlingname}.html and is what I
have always thought of it being.

You make a claim that a second one is required in
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/{podlingname}/STATUS or equivalent,
like has been done for Tuscany.
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/tuscany/STATUS


I make no claim about whether a STATUS file is required or not (I
don't know) - its just that for both this vote and Yoko I went looking
for information on whether the exit criteria had been met or not and I
found a STATUS file for Yoko. For both Yoko (in the STATUS file) and
FtpServer (on the website) the information was incomplete - so I asked
the question in the threads. I'd be happy with a statement in the vote
thread - but without this information I can't see how we can vote on
graduating a podiling.


I found the "status file" requirement confusing as well. You might
find this helpful: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5

Martin



Niall


Can someone authorative clarify the situation for me?


Cheers
--

Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer

I  live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I  work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug

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Re: REMINDER: *** Board Reports DUE! ***

[Martin Sebor]

Henri Yandell wrote:

I thought the incubated projects had been split into 3 groups, leaving
the Incubator to report every month but each project to report every
quarter?


That is my understanding as well, although I'm not clear on which
projects are in which group or what each group's reporting schedule
is.

I've been assuming that there would continue to be a reminder sent
out prior to the due date listing the projects whose reports were
expected to be filed. I missed Noel's note about the May page in
his April reminder.

Martin



Hen

On 5/13/06, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

C'mon, people.  EVERY MONTH we have a Board report due.  I even 
created the
May page a month in advance, and precisely ONE project has added 
ANYTHING.

Every other project listed on that page is LATE.

See: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2006

Please take care of this ASAP.

--- Noel


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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release

[Martin Sebor]

Bruce Snyder wrote:

On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'

Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?



I've found some information on the STATUS file but I think I'm missing
something because I can find info about the HTML status file, but
nothing on the STATUS file checked into the Subversion repo. I'm
trying to understand the redundancy and your query about
appropriateness. Below is what I have found:


FWIW, you might find helpful the issues below and the threads they
reference: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5, and
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7.

My understanding is that only one "STATUS file" is required and
that's your project's status web page; the term "STATUS file" is
a holdover from the early days of the incubator when a file with
that name did in fact exist and was required.

Martin



• The Incubator Process Description page states that with an upcoming
assessment it is generally a good idea to have your STATUS file right
up to-date 
(http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html#Review).


• The Incubation Policy page states that every project has an
incubation status file under
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/projectname.html
(http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources). 



Could you point out the docs on the difference between the two and the
appropriateness of the STATUS file?

Thanks!

Bruce



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Re: STATUS files in podling release

[Martin Sebor]

robert burrell donkin wrote:

On 5/27/06, Jeremy Boynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>

I had the same question relating to the Tuscany release. In general I
don't think it should as STATUS reflects the state of the project
rather than the code being distributed and technical matters can be
covered in some form of release notes (e.g. README). However, during
incubation, the state of the podling is more likely to be a material
factor for potential users so I would suggest that requiring it to be
included should be part of incubator policy.




+1

If others agree I'll volunteer to update the incubator site to reflect 
that.


I assume we are discussing the status HTML file generated from
each podling's XML template and not the XML itself, or some
third document. I.e., this file (to use stdcxx as an example):
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/stdcxx.html

FWIW, I see very little on these pages that's relevant (or even
terribly meaningful) to anyone but the incubator so I'm not sure
what the average user would get out of it.

In addition, isn't there material on these pages that projects
are normally not permitted to distribute (except without the
explicit permission of the board: e.g., the feather)? If it
became a requirement for podlings to distribute such material
how would it it affect this usual restriction, and what impact
would it have on third parties wanting to re-distribute these
releases? I.e., would it become necessary to remove all such
non-distributable material before re-distributing a tarball?
How would the third party know where to look?

If it is felt that it is important to distribute the status
with the release wouldn't it be easier to include a link
pointing at the status web page from within the podling's
README?

Martin

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Re: STATUS files in podling release

[Martin Sebor]

Hiram Chirino wrote:

On 5/30/06, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 5/27/06, Jeremy Boynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>> >
>>
>> I had the same question relating to the Tuscany release. In general I
>> don't think it should as STATUS reflects the state of the project
>> rather than the code being distributed and technical matters can be
>> covered in some form of release notes (e.g. README). However, during
>> incubation, the state of the podling is more likely to be a material
>> factor for potential users so I would suggest that requiring it to be
>> included should be part of incubator policy.
>
>
>
> +1
>
> If others agree I'll volunteer to update the incubator site to reflect
> that.

I assume we are discussing the status HTML file generated from
each podling's XML template and not the XML itself, or some
third document. I.e., this file (to use stdcxx as an example):
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/stdcxx.html



Actually.. I think the STATUS file that this thread was discussing was
a STATUS file checked into the root of the project's SVN directory.
For example:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/activemq/trunk/STATUS

I'm not sure but it may be that this format may have fallen out of
favor for the STATUS version that you described.


Yes, I believe that is the case. This STATUS file is not required
to exist anymore and from what I've seen most if not all podlings
have switched to the required HTML/XML document long time ago.

Martin


Part of the problem
is that incubation procedures change with time and someone that was
mentor at one time and comes back to the incubator with a project may
be using old procedures like maintaining STATUS files in the project
root directory.

In other words, even mentors may get a little of date with the latest
and greatest incubation procedures.  I'm not sure it's an easy thing
to solve.


FWIW, I see very little on these pages that's relevant (or even
terribly meaningful) to anyone but the incubator so I'm not sure
what the average user would get out of it.

In addition, isn't there material on these pages that projects
are normally not permitted to distribute (except without the
explicit permission of the board: e.g., the feather)? If it
became a requirement for podlings to distribute such material
how would it it affect this usual restriction, and what impact
would it have on third parties wanting to re-distribute these
releases? I.e., would it become necessary to remove all such
non-distributable material before re-distributing a tarball?
How would the third party know where to look?

If it is felt that it is important to distribute the status
with the release wouldn't it be easier to include a link
pointing at the status web page from within the podling's
README?

Martin

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Re: [STATUS] (incubator) Wed Jun 21 23:53:03 2006

[Martin Sebor]

Leo Simons wrote:

On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 11:53:04PM -0400, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:


APACHE INCUBATOR PROJECT STATUS:  -*-indented-text-*-
Last modified at [$Date: 2006-02-05 04:40:19 -0500 (Sun, 05 Feb 2006) $]


   ^^^

This file is not maintained and has not been maintained for a *long*
time. The last few edits were all me pointing to other places where
we do status tracking. If there are no objections I'll get rid of it
at some point (and ask Ken to disable the auto-mailer).


I have no objections but just to provide some background let
me point to a Jira issue (and an email thread referenced from
it) where this was discussed in the past:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7.

Martin

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Re: Branding of Incubator projects

[Martin Sebor]

Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
[...]

5. Until the Incubator PMC approves a podling proposal *and* the
podling initial drop code is in our source code repositories, a
project or any affiliated persons SHOULD NOT issue any 'press
releases' or affirmatively seek positive publicity (such as 'seeding
news stories') .


While I don't necessarily disagree with this guideline it doesn't
seem that it belongs here. Until a project is accepted no formal
relationship between the proposer and the ASF exists (right?), so
this guideline cannot be enforced or even expected to be known to
the proposing party. (It only seems to apply to the typically
narrow window between the acceptance of a project and the code
drop.)



6. The Apache PRC SHALL affirmatively and publicly respond to any such
inaccurate publicity surrounding podlings.


I'm not quite comfortable with the word inaccurate here. What
exactly does it refer to? (Assuming it's bullet 5, there doesn't
seem anything inaccurate about putting out a press release
announcing the proposal of a project, ill-advised though it
may be.)

This also seems like a catch 22. Until a proposal has been accepted
there is no podling to speak of, so the proposer can do whatever
they want (including put out a press release announcing it). And
I don't see anything wrong with doing that (although I suspect
that most companies will want to avoid any press until their
proposal has been accepted). I guess I'm missing the point of
this bullet (the ASF PRC can respond to any PR in any case).

Martin

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Re: Branding of Incubator projects

[Martin Sebor]

robert burrell donkin wrote:

On 6/29/06, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[...]

if this document doesn't work in it's current form, please post your
proposed improvements so we can all take a look (that goes for everyone BTW
:-)


I see no problem with the rest of the document. My only concern
or objection is with bullets 5 and 6. I would strike bullet 6
altogether (since it imposes a requirement on the PRC, not on
podlings), and reword bullet 5 like so:

  5. Any press releases or similar public announcements regarding
  new project proposals or newly accepted podlings are discouraged
  until the proposal has been accepted by the Incubator PMC *and*
  the project codebase has been imported into the ASF source code
  repository.

Martin

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Re: Branding of Incubator projects

[Martin Sebor]

sophitia que wrote:
[...]

I don't think it's unreasonable that we expect proposing parties to at
least browse and read parts of the incubator web site prior to a
submission.  Our obligation, as the incubator, would be to 1) ensure that
any official guidelines we develop are prominently and visibly displayed on
the incubator web site, 2) promote community and cultural processes that
reinforce these practices.


I agree. Listing these guidelines or recommendations in a document
(or a section of one) specifically designated for third parties
wishing to propose a project will be a big help. IMO, the section
named Entry To Incubation of the Incubation would be a good place.
The Branding Guidelines is where I would tend to look for guidance
after my proposal has been accepted but not necessarily until then.

Martin

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Re: piling on

[Martin Sebor]

Garrett Rooney wrote:

On 7/19/06, Ian Holsman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


are you referring to mentors as well?



Personally, yes, I feel this should apply to mentors as well.  While
there are cases where a mentor needs commit access for some sort of
procedural issues (maintaining STATUS files, helping to fix up
licensing issues, and whatnot), they should absolutely not have
general commit access to the codebase until they have earned it like
any other developer.


FWIW, one of the checkboxes on the status page says:

   Give all Mentors access to all incubator SVN modules (to be
   done by PMC chair).

so it seems they are required to have access whether the rest
of the committers like it or not.

Martin

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question about naming

[Martin Sebor]

The Naming section of the Branding Guidelines states (among other
things) that

  ...podling MUST be referred to as Apache "Podling-Name" AND mention
  that the project is under Incubation. Suitable mentions include:

  * Inclusion of the http://incubator.apache.org/"podling-name"; URL
  * Apache "Podling-Name" is currently undergoing Incubation at the
Apache Software Foundation.

See http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html#Naming

Is it intended that either of the two mentions (specifically just
the URL) satisfy this requirement? I.e., that something like this
be sufficient on a third party web page that discusses the project:

http://incubator.apache.org/podling-name";>
Apache Podling-Name


Thanks
Martin

PS Based on prior discussions on this list I suspect that the answer
to my question is "no" (and that the both mentions should be included)
but it seems that the text above could reasonably be interpreted so as
to require *at least one* of the two but not necessarily both.

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errors updating site

[Martin Sebor]

This is my first time using the new infrastructure to update
the site after updating the stdcxx status page. I'm running
into some errors that I could use help with. I'm using ant
1.6.2 and gcc 3.4.4 on Linux 2.6.9/EM64T.

First, I get the error below (and seems to either hang or
spin indefinetly after that.) Is gcc required in order to
run ant?

$ ant
/usr/bin/java: line 5: gcj: command not found
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

prepare-error:

docs:
   [anakia] Transforming into: /build/sebor/incubator/site-publish
   [anakia] Input:  projects/incubation-status-template.xml

Second, after setting up gcc/gcj and rerunning ant, I get the
attached output. Is the exception trace normal? if not, what
does it mean and how do I get around it?

Third, even though the ouptut says that the build was successful
and that files have been copied to site-publish, svn status on
the directory says nothing has changed.

Thanks
Martin

PS On a hunch, I also set up JDK 1.5.0 and reran ant. I got the
output below but the stdcxx.html file has still not changed.
The xml change I'm trying to push out is this:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=474420
The html is at:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=473601

$ ant
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

prepare-error:

docs:
   [anakia] Transforming into: /build/sebor/incubator/site-publish
   [anakia] Input:  projects/incubation-status-template.xml
   [anakia] Output: 
/build/sebor/incubator/site-publish/projects/incubation-status-template.html


BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 4 seconds

$ ant
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

prepare-error:

docs:
   [anakia] Transforming into: /build/sebor/incubator/site-publish
   [anakia] Input:  projects/incubation-status-template.xml
   [anakia] org.apache.velocity.exception.MethodInvocationException: Invocation 
of method 'selectNodes' in  class org.apache.velocity.anakia.AnakiaElement 
threw exception class java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError : while resolving class: 
antlr.collections.impl.BitSet
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTMethod.execute(java.lang.Object, 
org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTReference.execute(java.lang.Object, 
org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTReference.value(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter)
 (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTExpression.value(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter)
 (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTSetDirective.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.SimpleNode.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.directive.VelocimacroProxy.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer, org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.Node) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTDirective.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.SimpleNode.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.directive.VelocimacroProxy.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer, org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.Node) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.ASTDirective.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.runtime.parser.node.SimpleNode.render(org.apache.velocity.context.InternalContextAdapter,
 java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at 
org.apache.velocity.Template.merge(org.apache.velocity.context.Context, 
java.io.Writer) (Unknown Source)
   [anakia]at org.apache.velocity.anakia.AnakiaTask.process(java.io.File, 
java.lang.String, java.io.File, org.jdom.Document) (Unknown Source)
 [copy] Copying 10 files to /build/sebor/incubator/site-publish

BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 24 seconds

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Re: errors updating site

[Martin Sebor]

Yoav Shapira wrote:

Hi,

On 11/13/06, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


First, I get the error below (and seems to either hang or
spin indefinetly after that.) Is gcc required in order to
run ant?



gcc is not required and not used.  gcj is GNU Classpath Java, an
alternative Java binary that comes bundled with some linux
distributions as their default.  Where are you running this ant
command?


I checked out incubator/public/trunk/ on my local server and
ran ant in the "trunk" directory as recommended on the Web
page: http://tinyurl.com/y9683l.



When I run "java -version" on people.apache.org, it doesn't try to
invoke gcj, but instead give me Sun JDK 1.5.0_08, which is cool.  And
ant works fine as well.


Here's what I get when I run the command on my server:
$ java -version
java version "1.5.0_07"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_07-b03)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 1.5.0_07-b03, mixed mode)




Second, after setting up gcc/gcj and rerunning ant, I get the
attached output. Is the exception trace normal? if not, what
does it mean and how do I get around it?



Assuming you're talking about the antlr exception, no, it's not
normal.  I haven't seen it before when updating the Incubator site
myself, anyways.  It looks like there's a version incompatibility
between the (first) antlr on your runtime classpath and the one
expected by the Incubator site build.xml.


The exception went away after I set up the JDK. But the html
file still hasn't been updated. All I get is the output below.
Is there something else I'm missing?

$ ant
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

prepare-error:

docs:
   [anakia] Transforming into: /build/sebor/incubator/site-publish

BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 2 seconds

Martin

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Re: [Podlings] mailing list

[Martin Sebor]

Craig L Russell wrote:
[...]
I think it makes sense to automatically subscribe new committers in  
incubation projects to the general mailing list. They can unsubscribe  
if they are uninterested. This task might be one of the items done by  
the initial setup by the PPMC.


Out of curiosity, about what percentage of incubating projects'
committers are currently subscribed to the list? If more than 50%
I agree that might make sense, otherwise I would question whether
the effort of subscribing everyone just to have the majority of
them unsubscribe would be worth it.

Martin



Craig



Thanks,
Matthias

--
Matthias Wessendorf
http://tinyurl.com/fmywh

further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com

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Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!




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missing posts in archives

[Martin Sebor]

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the problem noted in
INFRA-1185 (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1185),
namely that not all posts appear in our browsable archives.

Also, do people use the Apache mbox browser or do they prefer
some other interface? If the latter, which one? I've used the
three below:

  http://www.nabble.com
  http://marc.theaimsgroup.com
  http://www.mail-archive.com

Does anyone have any comments they'd like to share on any
of these?

Thanks
Martin

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Re: missing posts in archives

[Martin Sebor]

Thanks! There is also the less severe problem with ezmlm stripping
attachments from some posts (see INFRA-1194). So far I haven't been
able to identify what causes them to be removed. Does anyone have
any ideas?

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1194

Martin

Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

On 3/13/07, Martin Sebor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the problem noted in
INFRA-1185 (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1185),
namely that not all posts appear in our browsable archives.


Weird.  I tossed the mod_mbox index for that month and recreated them.
Those messages appear now.  Thanks for pointing this out!

As an aside, if it persists, we may switch away from SDBM to BDB.
But, that'll mean a little bit of downtime for the archive as we
recreate all of the indexes.

Finally, I'm very much against archives that allow people to spam via
web pages.  Ugh!  -- justin

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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal

[Martin Sebor]

Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

Well,

incubator policy is able to contradict itself on one and the same page:


FWIW, the two statements aren't contradictory. "At least one"
doesn't imply "not all." The second requirement is simply a
strengthening of the first one ;-)

I do agree that the text could be worded better.

Martin



http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html

[...]
Acceptance By Incubator
[...]
* the Mentors, nominated by the Sponsor, who will guide the Candidate
through the Incubation Process. At least one nominated Mentor MUST be a
member of the Apache Software Foundation.

[...]

Roles Defined
 Mentor
[...]
A Mentor is a role undertaken by a permanent member of the Apache
Software Foundation and is chosen by the Sponsor to actively lead in the
discharge of their duties (listed above).

[...]

So what is it? A mentor must be a member or at least one mentor must be
a member? 


Confused
Henning



On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 13:57 +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:

On 4/4/07, Niclas Hedhman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wednesday 04 April 2007 02:01, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

As a mentor, I do obviously approve this process.

+1 (non-binding, as I am not an Incubator PMC member. As I understand,
if this proposal goes through, I do become one, don't I?)

AFAIK, you *must* be on the IPMC to be a mentor.

yes but prospective mentors need not be

AIUI mentors must be members and should be drafted onto the IPMC by
the proposal motion

- robert

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Re: Graduation T-Shirts

[Martin Sebor]

Craig L Russell wrote:

I have a slightly different view of this.

The phrase "I survived the Incubator" and "all I got was this lousy 
T-shirt" seem incongruous, and combining them doesn't quite work. "I 
survived..." stands alone.


I like it. It's funny.



And I agree with Noel that the survival meme isn't quite the 
self-deprecating message I'm looking for.


How about "Our project incubated at Apache and all I got was this lousy 
T-shirt"?


Not funny.

Martin



Craig

On May 12, 2007, at 2:39 AM, robert burrell donkin wrote:


On 5/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ["We Survived the Apache Incubator

is probably not a meme we want to perpetuate.  But I like the idea 
overall,

if we can come up with a more positive concept.


i like the self deprecating humour. the incubator is high ceremony so
i don't see there's much harm in a little bit of light relief after
graduation.

- robert

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Re: guides/graduation

[Martin Sebor]

Yoav Shapira wrote:

Hi,

On 5/14/07, Craig L Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

"The community mailing list is open to all Apache committers. This is
the right list for
questions about community and on community building. Subscriptions
should be from an Apache email address."

In my experience, the community mailing lists are open to everyone
and it's not particularly useful to request that subscriptions be
from an Apache email address.


I like the last sentence.  As a moderator for many ASF mailing lists,
having subscription requests from apache.org addresses make like a lot
easier.  Please don't remove that last sentence ;)  Since that
particular list is indeed open to the world, maybe a slight rephrasing
along the lines of "if you've got an Apache address, please use it to
subscribe" would be better.


I can see how posts from apache.org might make the job of moderator
of heavy list easier but shouldn't it be left up to each individual
project to decide if they want to tighten the subscription policy?

Martin

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Re: Questions raised by May report

[Martin Sebor]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

* I'm qurious about http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/#committers.
  Why some people are following CTR and others RTC?

quoting that page
"Stdcxx Committers are Developers with commit (or write) access to the stdcxx
codebase. Except where noted, all stdcxx committers follow the
Review-Then-Commit policy. The list of current committers in alphabetical order
is below:"

I think this is a misunderstanding, but perhaps worse.  The statement is that
except where there is C-T-R code bases, svn operates under R-T-C.  I don't
believe this was ment to apply to individuals, please correct me if I'm wrong.


We're discussing this as we speak (the commit policy comments
in the table are out of date). See:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stdcxx-dev/200705.mbox/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]

Martin

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Re: [VOTE] Change "Mentor" to "Mentors" in Incubator Policy

[Martin Sebor]

Out of curiosity, what form does the reporting to the Sponsor
and Incubator PMC take? If it's in writing and public, where
can the rest of the podling community see it?

Martin

Craig L Russell wrote:

Would this be ok?

Change

Mentors are chosen by the Sponsor to actively monitor the podling, guide 
the podling in the Apache Way, and report its status to the Sponsor and 
the Incubator PMC. All Mentors must be members of the Incubator PMC. A 
Mentor has responsibilities toward the Incubator PMC, the Sponsor, and 
the community of the assigned Podling.


to

A Podling has one or more Mentors, one of which MUST be an Apache 
Member. Mentors are chosen by the Sponsor to actively monitor the 
podling, guide the podling in the Apache Way, and report its status to 
the Sponsor and the Incubator PMC. All Mentors must be members of the 
Incubator PMC. A Mentor has responsibilities toward the Incubator PMC, 
the Sponsor, and the community of the assigned Podling.


If this works for you, I can post an updated patch and re-vote.

Craig

On May 21, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:


On 5/21/07, Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

There is, afaik, still some people who think that having
more than one Mentor is unwise (the old saw is more than
one mentor means no mentors)... If a podling wishes
to have just 1, we should honor that, I think.

Therefore I would think some sort of statement such
as "The term 'Mentor' is not designed to be either
singular or plural, and can either mean a single Mentor
or a group of Mentors" or some such thing...

I'm not ready to vote on it yet...


Ditto to Jim's comments - multiple mentors are nice, but should not be
a requirement.  -- justin

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Re: PPMC guidance on new committers

[Martin Sebor]

Craig L Russell wrote:
[...]
So IMHO, best practice for podlings is to hold a [DISCUSS] Joe Bleau for 
committer on the PPMC private list, followed by a [VOTE] on the PPMC 
private list, and then a formal [VOTE] on the private incubator PMC list 
with references to the discussion and vote of the PPMC. [Only the final 
vote is binding.]


How could a PPMC participate in a vote on the Incubator PMC's private
list? Even if the PPMC's private list were CC'd on the initial vote
there would be no way for the PPMC members to know whether they were
being CC'd on all the relevant discussions and given sufficient
opportunity to address any concerns.

Martin

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Re: PPMC guidance on new committers

[Martin Sebor]

Craig L Russell wrote:

Hi Martin,

On May 30, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Martin Sebor wrote:


Craig L Russell wrote:
[...]
So IMHO, best practice for podlings is to hold a [DISCUSS] Joe Bleau 
for committer on the PPMC private list, followed by a [VOTE] on the 
PPMC private list, and then a formal [VOTE] on the private incubator 
PMC list with references to the discussion and vote of the PPMC. 
[Only the final vote is binding.]


How could a PPMC participate in a vote on the Incubator PMC's private
list?


It cannot, and I don't believe I implied that this would be the case. 
The idea is that the PPMC, with the help of the Mentors, conducts a 
discussion and a vote just as they would if they were a TLP PMC. What 
we're trying to do in the incubator is to give the PPMC the opportunity 
to act like a PMC and this committer discussion and vote is one of the 
most important things to learn.


How could they learn anything when some of the most important decisions
were made behind closed doors (i.e., on the Incubator private list?)




Even if the PPMC's private list were CC'd on the initial vote
there would be no way for the PPMC members to know whether they were
being CC'd on all the relevant discussions and given sufficient
opportunity to address any concerns.


I guess this would be the responsibility of the Mentors to carry any 
feedback from the incubator PMC vote. During the incubator PMC vote, the 
Mentors will be active in responding to any concerns of the incubator PMC.


That sounds backwards. Aren't each podling's mentors supposed to
represent the Incubator PMC on the podling's PPMC? Doesn't the PMC
trust the mentors to adequately represent them? It seems to me that
if a mentor has reason to be concerned about a committer vote they
can bring it up on the Incubator PMC list. Otherwise there should
be no reason to involve it. If there are Incubator PMC members who
are concerned about a podling's ability to make these type of
decisions despite the oversight of its mentors they have the option
of subscribing to the PPMC list or even becoming mentors themselves.
Otherwise, it would be hard to argue that they have the insight
necessary to make these types of fundamental decisions for the PPMC.

Martin

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Re: Podling Committer policy

[Martin Sebor]

FWIW, the process outlined below fully addresses my concerns
I had with the original change.

Martin

ant elder wrote:
[...]

How about changing it so;

(1) incubator-private is notified that discussion of a new committer is
starting on the poddling's private list so IPMCers can participate in that
discussion;

(2) when the actual vote happens the incubator is notified again so they 
can

participate on the poddlings mailing list (ie not voting /discussing on
incubator-private where the poddling PPMC can't see whats going on);

(3) the IPMC peoples votes are done by lazy consensus so as long as there
are enough poddling PPMC votes the vote passes whether or not there are 3
binding IPMC votes

(4) the same (1) (2) (3) for a new PPMC member (maybe (3) should be dropped
for a new PPMC member?)

  ...ant




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Re: STDCXX progress to graduation

[Martin Sebor]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

[...]

things are as quiet as expected for a mature implementation of
a reference standard.

Any concern that because of the maturity, it could stagnate and lose community?


Not at this time.  Because it is widely deployed, there will be a long
term demand.  Because it's transparent to the developer, and in debugging
their apps they can drill right into flaws within stdcxx, I suspect we
will see bug feedback folks turn patchers turn contributors turn project
members for years, as long as C++ is a widely adopted language.


I have little to add to Bill and Justin's encouraging comments,
except that the C++ standard is currently being revised and a new,
significantly extended one is close to being completed, and is
expected to be ratified in the 2010 timeframe. Many new features
have already been added to the standard and more still are in
the works. We are looking forward to fully implementing all of
the new components after the upcoming 4.2 release of stdcxx. We
expect to attract even more users to the project with this
milestone release, and to grow the community of contributors in
the coming months to help us with the implementation of the many
new features. Graduating from the incubator will be a crucial
step in reaching these goals and ensuring an wider adoption
of the project.

Martin

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Re: STDCXX progress to graduation

[Martin Sebor]

Leo Simons wrote:

On Jun 22, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

I think the community, as-is, can manage itself for now.

...

I believe stdcxx is a nice, small,
healthy little community doing what the committers are interested in -
producing a world-class STL implementation under the ALv2 with our
community principles behind it.

...

I took 'a stroll' and I believe that too; not so worried about the 'for 
now'.


I also believe/hope the status file might need an update or perhaps two:

  In progress
   Check and make sure that the files that have been donated have
 been updated to reflect the new ASF copyright.

I'd hope that was finished a while ago :-)


It got started but we never did go through all the files to check
that we didn't miss any (which we of course did). I just finished
a sweep through our sources and updated those that still needed
it. The record of the changes is here:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-457

I also updated the status file with this information.

Martin

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Re: STDCXX progress to graduation

[Martin Sebor]

Leo Simons wrote:

On Jun 23, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Martin Sebor wrote:

Leo Simons wrote:

I also believe/hope the status file might need an update or perhaps two:
  In progress
   Check and make sure that the files that have been donated have
 been updated to reflect the new ASF copyright.
I'd hope that was finished a while ago :-)


It got started but we never did go through all the files to check
that we didn't miss any (which we of course did).


:-(


I just finished
a sweep through our sources and updated those that still needed
it. The record of the changes is here:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-457


So, does this mean that there's files in any of the tarballs listed at

  http://incubator.apache.org/stdcxx/download.html

that have an incorrect license header?


Incorrect might be too strong a word. IMO, "different" would
describe it better.



If so, you should be thinking about what to do with those releases -- 
like do a branch where you fix the headers and release new 4.1.2.2, 
4.1.3.2 versions to replace them, or simply pull the 4.1.x releases and 
get 4.2 out quickly, or decide there really can't possibly be any 
problems for the users but add a warning to be safe, or successfully 
argue there's nothing that needs to be done, or whatever.


I'd like to argue that nothing needs to be done :)

The files are all licensed under the ASL, it's just that the text
is subtly (but in my layman opinion not substantively) different
from the most recent text at
http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html



I think you're blessed with mentors that can offer some very expertish 
insights into how to deal with things like this :-)


We couldn't agree more.

Martin

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Re: [doc] [VOTE] Promote http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

[Martin Sebor]

+1

This will be helpful. Thanks for putting it together!

Martin

robert burrell donkin wrote:

we've been working on
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html for a while now and
i think it's good enough now to be promoted from draft status and
added to the documentation indexes. status doesn't really mean
anything officially. the document will still be CTR. it's not policy,
just guidance. hopefully, it'll continue to be patched as time goes
on.

but i think it's useful to have a vote as a final sign-off and test
that we feel collectively that it's good enough. it also gives folks
who haven't been following it's development closely a chance to review
something that's reasonably finished.

here's my +1

- robert

[ ] +1 Good enough
[ ] +0
[ ] -0
[ ] -1 Flawed

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ezmlm stripping Outlook attachments

[Martin Sebor]

Hi,

We've had a number of complaints about ezmlm stripping plain text
attachments to posts such as patches sent by Microsoft Outlook.
Other mailers (e.g., Mozilla) don't have this problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with it other
that to switch to a different mailer? More generally, is there
a document that describes the do's and don'ts of posting to
Apache lists?

Thanks
Martin


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[jira] Created: (INCUBATOR-5) status file requirement unclear

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

status file requirement unclear
---

 Key: INCUBATOR-5
 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5
 Project: Incubator
Type: Improvement
 Environment: all
Reporter: Martin Sebor


The Incubation Policy mentions two requirements for a status file:

http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities%0D
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources

While all podlings have a status Web page, none appears to provide a STATUS 
file in the expected location, even though the latter is mentioned more 
prominently in the policy and reiterated in the weekly Incubator status report 
-- see below:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

It's not clear which of these two files is actually required. This is a request 
to clarify the policy on this question.

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[jira] Commented: (INCUBATOR-5) status file requirement unclear

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5?page=comments#action_12357903 
] 

Martin Sebor commented on INCUBATOR-5:
--

See also:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200510.mbox/raw/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]/
and:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200510.mbox/raw/[EMAIL
 PROTECTED]/

> status file requirement unclear
> ---
>
>  Key: INCUBATOR-5
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5
>  Project: Incubator
> Type: Improvement
>  Environment: all
> Reporter: Martin Sebor

>
> The Incubation Policy mentions two requirements for a status file:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities%0D
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources
> While all podlings have a status Web page, none appears to provide a STATUS 
> file in the expected location, even though the latter is mentioned more 
> prominently in the policy and reiterated in the weekly Incubator status 
> report -- see below:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> It's not clear which of these two files is actually required. This is a 
> request to clarify the policy on this question.

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[jira] Commented: (INCUBATOR-5) status file requirement unclear

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5?page=comments#action_12357905 
] 

Martin Sebor commented on INCUBATOR-5:
--

Note that the Ongoing Activities link mentioned in the issue description has 
changed. It is now:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities

> status file requirement unclear
> ---
>
>  Key: INCUBATOR-5
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5
>  Project: Incubator
> Type: Improvement
>  Environment: all
> Reporter: Martin Sebor

>
> The Incubation Policy mentions two requirements for a status file:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities%0D
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources
> While all podlings have a status Web page, none appears to provide a STATUS 
> file in the expected location, even though the latter is mentioned more 
> prominently in the policy and reiterated in the weekly Incubator status 
> report -- see below:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> It's not clear which of these two files is actually required. This is a 
> request to clarify the policy on this question.

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[jira] Created: (INCUBATOR-7) STATUS file out of date, confusing

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

STATUS file out of date, confusing
--

 Key: INCUBATOR-7
 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7
 Project: Incubator
Type: Bug
 Environment: all
Reporter: Martin Sebor


The STATUS file (http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/STATUS) 
posted to general@incubator.apache.org once a week is out of date and 
confusing. See this thread for details:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

A tentative patch for the problems pointed out in the post above is here:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

In addition, in his response (below) to this thread, David Crossley identifies 
two specific issues that should be addressed:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

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[jira] Commented: (INCUBATOR-7) STATUS file out of date, confusing

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7?page=comments#action_12359051 
] 

Martin Sebor commented on INCUBATOR-7:
--

David, thanks for clarifying the STATUS file! Since it's up to date now I'm 
fine with you closing the issue (but feel free to keep it open if you think 
it's helfpul).

> STATUS file out of date, confusing
> --
>
>  Key: INCUBATOR-7
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7
>  Project: Incubator
> Type: Bug
>  Environment: all
> Reporter: Martin Sebor

>
> The STATUS file 
> (http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/STATUS) posted to 
> general@incubator.apache.org once a week is out of date and confusing. See 
> this thread for details:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> A tentative patch for the problems pointed out in the post above is here:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> In addition, in his response (below) to this thread, David Crossley 
> identifies two specific issues that should be addressed:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200511.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]

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[jira] Commented: (INCUBATOR-5) status file requirement unclear

[Martin Sebor (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5?page=comments#action_12359056 
] 

Martin Sebor commented on INCUBATOR-5:
--

Yes, I believe you're referring to this post:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200510.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Thanks for patching the policy page!

Please feel free to go ahead and close this issue (I would do it myself but I 
don't seem to have the right permissions).

> status file requirement unclear
> ---
>
>  Key: INCUBATOR-5
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5
>  Project: Incubator
> Type: Improvement
>  Environment: all
> Reporter: Martin Sebor

>
> The Incubation Policy mentions two requirements for a status file:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Ongoing+Activities%0D
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources
> While all podlings have a status Web page, none appears to provide a STATUS 
> file in the expected location, even though the latter is mentioned more 
> prominently in the policy and reiterated in the weekly Incubator status 
> report -- see below:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200507.mbox/[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> It's not clear which of these two files is actually required. This is a 
> request to clarify the policy on this question.

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