Re: phonetic transcription of debian?

[Jutta Wrage]

Am Freitag, 25.03.05 um 16:43 Uhr schrieb Jens Seidel:
Correct, he refers to the second character of dEbian.
(Since the German E is pronounced similar to A in mAde, fAde, I was not
confused.)
That is not fully correct. A in "made" is "ei" in phonemes and not "e" 
like in Freddie (we would pronounce that like english speakers do) or 
Debbie, Debra, or Deborah.  Beside the "." I do not see anything that 
could be wrong. And I just believe that those writing up the 
pronunciation just know, how that Ian is pronounced. If the phonemes 
are wrong, all in my dicts must be wrong, too. ;-) In German Language 
most people pronounce Debian wrong (just as it would be pronounced as a 
german word) but it should be like it was written "Debien" with 
emphasized "De".

Maybe, there is a difference between oxford english and american 
english, I do not know. But for me the pronunciation  on the page 
sounds reasonable.

greetings
Jutta
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New Menubar for www.debian.org - increasing Accessibility

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!
As there was a request to make the quicknav at top of debian web pages 
more accessible, I have worked out two examples fot a new one without 
images and changable font size.

Please have a look at 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/menus/menubar.html and send 
comments to me or the list.

The first menu is the original one. the second one done some time ago, 
the last one from today with minimum of differences to current css. For 
me the third one looks line the current menu. But here the font size 
can be increased by the reader ant it has no images.

For those who are interested: CSS is inside the page.
greetings
Jutta
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Bug#308988: bad usage of anchor tags leads to ugly css hover effects

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!
Am 13.05.2005 um 18:05 schrieb Andreas Wuest:
Package: www.debian.org
Pages which have a table of contents like
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ or http://www.debian.org/support
use the anchor tag like e.g. in Introduction, i.e. the  element's content is
the title itself.
I know, that there is some bad usage of a tags on the debian pages. But 
if you look at the second URL, you will see that the headings _really_ 
are links to other pages with more information about the subject.

Beside that a-tags are closed by  in html.
I'd suppose either correct the pages or use
a[href]:visited { color: #800080; }
a[href]:link { color: #FF; }
a[href]:active { color: #FF; }
a[href]:hover {   color: #F000FF; }
Thanks for your report.
greetings
Jutta
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Bug#308988: bad usage of anchor tags leads to ugly css hover effects

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 17.05.2005 um 20:10 schrieb Andreas Wuest:
It is closed! It is a so called 'empty element'
(http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#h-4.6), which is closed by a trailing
'/' (after "intro").
Please see the html definition for HTML pages.
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/links.html#h-12.2:
Start tag: required, End tag: required
greetings
Jutta
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Lost pages - mainly czech

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Seems there are som wml files still missed in the cvs tree.

While looking which pages are build without navbar3 in my local tree, i 
discovered, that there are some old html pages left which are not any 
longer on www.d.o.


Here some examples:

security/2005/dsa-656.cs.html
security/2005/dsa-657.cs.html
security/2005/dsa-658.cs.html
security/2005/dsa-667.ja.html

If anybody wants to dive in a bit more I have put a ful list of pages 
not build with navbar3 on my web server.
URL: 
http://www.witch.debian.org/debian/diff/pages-without-navbar3-20050524


Only the CD pages are valid as they do not use the same navbar. The 
others seem no to build any longer (verified for the czech pages 
above).


greetings

Jutta

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Bug#310617: www.debian.org: security/2005/dsa-667.ja.html does not build

[Jutta Wrage]

Package: www.debian.org
Version: N/A; reported 2005-05-24
Severity: normal

The build page is empty. I am not sure about it, but seems these two
missing lines cause the problem:

# do not modify the following line
#include "$(ENGLISHDIR)/security/2005/dsa-667.data"

greetings

Jutta

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Re: Lost pages - mainly czech

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 24.05.2005 um 18:54 schrieb Luk Claes:


Only the CD pages are valid as they do not use the same navbar. The
others seem no to build any longer (verified for the czech pages 
above).


I can build Bugs/Reporting.en.html without any problem. Maybe I don't
understand the problem?


All pages else than those in the CD tree should use navbar3 in my local 
tree as I prepared the change of the navbar there.


For the pages in Bugs you are right: I get a build error there:
make[2]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target 
»../../english/Bugs/pseudo-pac

kages.description«,
  benötigt von »pseudo-packages.ca.html«, zu erstellen.  Schluss.

The other pages seem to be mostly lost or removed from cvs as searching 
build pages in the webwml tree results in a list that is different 
(html files that are as source in the tree and not installed).


Jutta

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Re: Lost pages - mainly czech

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 24.05.2005 um 18:42 schrieb Frank Lichtenheld:


Use remove_stale.pl to clean up your cvs checkout...


I'll do that later to give a chance to the translators to recover the 
obviously lost translated content.


Jutta

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Re: [Fwd: Why so difficult to get English?]

[Jutta Wrage]

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Making the links from one language all going to the same language as  
visited will not work, as we discussed before (a page may not be  
there) and it would make language negotiation senseless.


But I have another Idea:

What about a page in utf-8 which has some information in all  
languages on the same available? Especially how to get a page, if the  
browser settings differ by inserting "en" or index.en.html eg.


Beside that someone might have a look, if language names are  
everywhere available in their native form. If a link to English  
language is displayed in chinese or japanese translation, really  
nobody not speaking that languages, will find.


But seems most visitors get the problem solved themselves by setting  
up the browser correctly.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Please, would specify in the global packages list, from which group each package is related.

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!
Am Dienstag, 18.01.05 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb David Mandelberg:
Do you mean something like ?
I think his problem is knowing, if the package is in devel.
http://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages should list the section, 
maybe.

But when looking at that page I found another issue: The links to the 
packages are gone there. Seems, there is not longer shown the html page 
but the text list. The server delivers allpackages.de.txt instead of 
allpagages.de.html for me. Server misconfiguration?

Another idea: How about linking to a page, where users get information 
on searching locally on the disk for a package? I am sure that many 
people do not know about apt-cache, apt-file and other useful utilities.

greetings
Jutta
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Packackages.d.o - New Download Table on Package Pages

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!
I crossposted this to debian-accessibility as I especially want  
comments from there.

As the current download table looks really ugly in lynx, I have made an  
attempt to increase accessibility by changing the table. The order is  
now that all information about one architecture is in one table row  
instead of a column. In addition the form was removed and replaced by a  
download link. The links will _not_ work on that server as the cgi is  
not there, so please be not surprised.

I want you to view the page with any browser and, maybe, with screen  
reader or braille.

Here is the URL of the ACPI package page. But you may visit any other  
page there in stable:

http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/packages.debian.org/stable/admin/ 
apcd.html

For those using a graphical browser: The background colour of the table  
is taken from the menu color on the main page of debian.org.

For those using screen readers: I am not sure, if css is supported when  
using them. There are lots of css features for blind people. But I  
still do not know, who can test the Debian pages, if we implement such  
features.

Please comment to the lists or to me private, whatever you want.
greetings
Jutta
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Re: Please, would specify in the global packages list, from which group each package is related.

[Jutta Wrage]

Am Dienstag, 18.01.05 um 14:58 Uhr schrieb Frank Lichtenheld:
What a Accept header is you browser sending? Mine sends
Accept:  
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/ 
plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Mine does send nothing like that. It leaves it to the server to find  
the best one. And obviously apache thinks txt is better than html.

I tested that again in my local repository. Seems  after an upgrade of  
apache-common there the behavior of the server has changed. I am sure,  
I got the html file two weeks or something like that ago, and get the  
compressed text file there now, too.

I got a comment from someone else that it would be better to have  
different names for the text file and the html file.

Another thing I have seen while testing: If I compress the html pages,  
too, they are delivered and loaded faster, even in a local network.  
Maybe, there should be a link to a compressed html page, too? I am not  
sure about that.

greetings
Jutta
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cvs update hanging on ukrainian/po

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!
I am going to include the css cards in the web tree, but there are 
problems again on cvs update hanging on ukrainian/po

Could someone have a look into that?
Would be great, if nobody touched the devel/index.wml files next two 
days. I'll remove the tables there and send the patches after verifying 
that nothing will be broken.

Thanks in advance
Jutta
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Bug#293588: www.debian.org/events calendar files have the wrong extension

[Jutta Wrage]

reasign 293588 evolution
Thanks
The calendar files have correct extension according to RFC-2445 chapter 
3.10.
So it is evolutions fault, if it wants another extension.

Jutta
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dwww devel index pages in css layout - all languages

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!
Was a bit work to edit all languages, but here are the results to be 
seen:

http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/dwww2/devel/
language negotiation does not work quite well there. Here the list of 
changed pages:

index.da.html index.en.html index.fr.html  index.pl.html
index.de.html index.en-us.html  index.hu.html  index.pt.html
index.el.html index.es.html index.it.html  index.ru.html
index.en-gb.html  index.fi.html index.ja.html  index.sv.html
Do you want the diffs for the wml files send to the list?
greetings
Jutta
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Please apply new css version

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!
For next changes in packages.d.o and www.d.o there are new css entries.
Can someone apply them please?
I added some things for the download table and a hidden "skip menu" 
(accessibility) and replaced the spaces by tabs.

wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian.css (the whole file)
wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/dwww-css-20041215.diff 
(the diff)

Here the patches for the changed index pages at 
http://www.debian.org/devel/

wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/develindex.diff
There are single patch files for each language, too. The css is already 
prepared for that pages, so there is not need to wait with patching the 
devel index pages until the new css are on all mirrors.

Would it be better to send such mails as these as bug report?
greetings
Jutta
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Bug#294823: www.debian.org: CSS changes for www.debian.org and packages.d.o

[Jutta Wrage]

Package: www.debian.org
Version: N/A; reported 2005-02-11
Severity: normal
Tags: patch

For next changes in packages.d.o and www.d.o there are new css entries.
Please remind, that the changes will make it possible to increase
accessibility.

I added some things for the download table and a hidden "skip menu"
(accessibility) and replaced the spaces by tabs.

wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian.css (the whole file)
wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/dwww-css-20041215.diff
(the diff)

Can someone apply them, please?

thanks

Jutta

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Bug#294825: www.debian.org: patches for removing table layout from devel/index.lang.html

[Jutta Wrage]

Package: www.debian.org
Version: N/A; reported 2005-02-11
Severity: normal
Tags: patch

Hi!

Last weekend I prepared patches to remove table layout from the devel
index pages. Using css for building the cards will increase
accessibility.

Could someone apply the patches to the wml files in CVS?

Here the patches for the changed index pages at
http://www.debian.org/devel/:

wget http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/develindex.diff

There are single patch files for each language, too. The css is already
prepared for that pages, so there is not need to wait with patching the
devel index pages until the new css are on all mirrors.

Thanks in advance

Jutta


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Bug#100188: Status, source and licence of http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 05.04.2012 um 20:32 schrieb David Prévot:

> Looking at #100188 made me aware of the Debian Dictionary [1] where
> some translations are already available. Do you know if the sources
> are available, what is the license, and who are the copyright holders
> of these documents?
> 
> 
> 1: http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/

The sources are available and also the program which can create web pages and 
analyse translations and create new source lists to add missing translations.

Might need some time for me to collect everything, if integration in debian web 
site is wanted.

Feel free to contact me directly, too.

regards

Jutta
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Help needed to get autogb run for chinese pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I am still searching for help on the "chinese does not build on ppc"  
problem.


Does anyone volunteer helping me to find out, why I get the error 56  
and build stops?


We have everything validating now except two license index  
translations (which will be gone when the translators update their  
pages) and the yaboot howto which is build by debian-doc, but there  
are several files in the chinese directory, which have to be changed  
to get valid chinese pages (see http://people.debian.org/~alfie/ 
validate/zh-tw).


Please contact me, if you think you have enough knowledge, to help me  
to get the chinese pages build on my computer, so that I can test  
changes.


greetings

Jutta


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Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I am planning, to split up the debian.css a bit, now that so many  
things are included already.


First step will be add a language CSS file for each language to add  
the correct quotes for -tags.


The files will be named using the language code of the html pages:  
debian-$lang.css and added to the header by the wml files in template.


I think, we also should split the main CSS in two parts next time:  
one for all pages and one for packages.debian.org (there are many  
things, used nowhere else).


For the quotes, I have done a completely new page on my web-site:

http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes.html

This page contains all quotation marks, I have found somewhere  
(mostly Wikipedia) for now. To do that, I had to remove the language  
from html header and I hope, that works for everyone.


German l10n group has already decided, which quotation mark  
alternative to take in a first step. For the other languages, I will  
add the first alternative, if there are more possibilities and you  
have no objections.


Jutta


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Re: Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 13.12.2005 um 10:30 schrieb Denis Barbier:


Please have a look at the current debian.css, French quotes have been
fixed this way.  Nested quotation marks for French look also wrong to
me, I will send a message to our mailing list to discuss it.


Can you please ask then to verify, that there are really browsers not  
showing the space between quotation mark and text in the test page?  
All of my browsers have no difficulties with it.



Anyway I do not understand why you spend time on finding those
quotation marks for all languages; this is translators' job, simply
put debian.css files under their directory and they will take care


Finding them might be a translators job, but implementing the css is  
not, if they do not want to. From my experience now the translators  
want something, that makes it easy to edit and translate. For myself  
I would not like to have to translate all the “ and others,  
too. And the must be translated to get correct quote signs in all  
languages.


I could have waited and ask the translators for their quotes. But why  
should I, when knowing that some of them will have difficutites too  
do that and answer in a year or so, if they are forced to search  
themselves? It is quite mire easy for the to look at an example page  
and say either "okay" or "not okay".


Beside most time of the research was finding a solution, that works  
with all the browsers as even those suggested for one of my browsers  
really sucks and I was tired, getting english straight quotes insted  
of German ones eg all the time. It is really a pity, that the example  
from CSS spec does not work in nearly all browsers.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 13.12.2005 um 08:47 schrieb Ognyan Kulev:

Second, consecutive closing quotes are reduced to one quote.  "a  
"b"" becomes "a "b". Unfortunately, AFAIK this rule can't be  
expressed with CSS.


Quite confusing. I wonder, how people find through that in books. Who  
knows, if quotation a ends there and not later? But for sure, that  
problem cannot be solved as far as I know.


I'll remove the Alternative 2 from the example page, btw.

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 13.12.2005 um 11:54 schrieb Keld J|rn Simonsen:

We could ensure that the characters needed are available easily on  
each
respecitve national keyboard. I am also involved in ISO keyboard  
standardisation
(SC35/WG1) and via that channel I got the info that the EU are  
asking for
a specific set of characters to be available for inputting for all  
public

service desks in the EU. I would like to look into that.


It is not only a keyboard problem. The German quotes e. g. are not  
part of latin1 or latin9. So the only way to display them correctly  
on iso-8859 pages is using CSS.


But when in Unicode enviroment, the quotes should be easily  
accessible. though.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 15.12.2005 um 19:24 schrieb Eddy Petrişor:


This is a „single quote".  This is „an outer quote containing «an
inner quote»" .

The alternative is to swap the two types of qoutes between themselves
( « „ " » - this is also correct).


You are mixing different sorts of quote for one level there, please  
have a look at


http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/screenshots/romainian-quotes.tiff

For all, who are not sure, how to write their quotes correctly, you  
can use the numbers in the first table cell to pooint to them on this  
page:


http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes-large.html

I assume, you meant the order 4-10-12-6 and as an alternative 10-4-6-12

greetings

Jutta

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Re: Help needed to get autogb run for chinese pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 17.12.2005 um 11:32 schrieb Wouter Verhelst:


-B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
+#B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
+B5TOGB = /usr/bin/autogb -i big5 -o gb


This is exactly the same, I have now all the time. But I get the  
strange error at build of the very first page already.


make[1]: Leaving directory `/bilder/dwww/webwml/chinese/po'
wml -q -D CUR_YEAR=2005 -o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:contact.zh- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - 
o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --prolog=./bin/ 
fix_big5.pl  contact.wml

* Converting: [zh_CN.GB2312], make: *** [contact.zh-hk.html] Fehler 56

Dist is Debian Sarge on Mac mini.
I installed zh-autoconvert, which is the only package containing autogb

I tried that on a clean checkout - only changing the Make.lang for  
chinese: same error.


greetings

Jutta

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Quotation marks - commit planned for language css in webwml

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I have already commited some css files, but miss feedback for several  
languages.


Commit of remaing css is planned tomorrow, if there are no objections.

Please have a look at

URL http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes.html
(css with unicode numbers of quotation marks is include in the file)

and

URL http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes-large.html

For the following languages I have no feedback (or missed it, sorry)  
and will commit the first alternative, if there is more than one:


Arabic
Armenian
Catalan
Chinese simplified (zh-cn)
Chinese hongkong (?) (zh-hk)
Chinese traditional (zh-tw)
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Esperanto
Farsi
Finnish
Greek
Hungarian
Indonesian
Italian
Japanese
Norwegian
Portuguese
Russian
Slovak
Slovene
Swedish
Turkish

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Quotation marks - commit planned for language css in webwml

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 20.12.2005 um 07:41 schrieb Bjørn Steensrud:


Norwegian


First alternative, but change inner quotes to U+2018 and U+2019
This is taken from the translator's guidelines for Skolelinux.


Added as alternative 3 and commited for no, nb, nn
Please verify the quotes in good (maybe older) books. I do not rely  
very much on html sources as they are wrong for German language very  
often, too. The problem is, that German quotes are not part of  
ISO-8859-1, which is silly at all.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Quotation marks - commit planned for language css in webwml

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 20.12.2005 um 10:36 schrieb Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo:

There is no 'Polish' on this list, and Polish quotation marks are  
wrong.

Both variants. First has wrong inner marks and second has wrong outer
marks.


I've found an older Mail about that, so the first change is commited  
already.



Polish quotation marks should be the same as Romanian.


I have added a third Alternative now. Can you ensure in your polish  
books, that this is the right one? Other sources tell, polish uses  
same quoation marks as Germany. Quite confusing.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: document error in..

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 21.12.2005 um 12:15 schrieb Matt Kraai:


The DSA-922 web page says that it affects the kernel-source-2.4.27


That is obviously wrong there and it is in the mail advisory, too.

Seems to be a copy and paste failure (?) from description in DSA-921,  
which is about kernel 2.4.27.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Splitting up debian.css for the web pages and include quotes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.12.2005 um 10:20 schrieb Keld J|rn Simonsen:


»text1 'text2'«

Alternate:

"text1 'text2'"

The source is Retskrivningsordbogen, 3rd edition 2001,
sections 64(1) and 64(4). Retskrivingsordbogen
is authoritive on Danish orthography.


I corrected that not to use the typewriter quotes after calling to  
danmark. Hope everything is fine now.


many thanks

Jutta

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Re: Quotation marks - commit planned for language css in webwml

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.12.2005 um 15:21 schrieb Keld J|rn Simonsen:


I had one more look at the quotes page
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes.html


I changed the page a bit. Thanks for your review.

Note that the display problem can be there with _any_ of the quotes.  
If browser does not honour the css, it will show all the same quotes  
(typewriter ones) all over the page or maybe no chinese quotes or  
just no quotes. Safari 2 for example shows typewriter quotation marks  
with other css solutions. The CSS in the page seems to work with  
nearly any browser. but older versions and browsers not tested and  
not using khtml or gecko engine may handle the css different.


The CSS in the page is tested by me with nearly current versions of  
Safari, Omniweb, Firefox, Opera and Camino. Others tested with other  
browsers and beside those browsers mentioned in the page and the  
french quarter whitespace [1] no bug is reported until now.


[1] solved by replacing Unicode 2005 by 00A0.

greetings

Jutta

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Re: Quotation marks - commit planned for language css in webwml

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.12.2005 um 21:13 schrieb Richard Atterer:


Still, I feel slightly bad about the fact that after the changes are
committed, >80% of Internet users will _not_ see  as intended.  
FWIW, the

round corners of the current site don't show up on MSIE either. :-/


At first it is a fact that some pages used  instead of any ldquo  
and others before. And IE does not support those either. It behaves  
like links here, which is wrong. The rounded corners on the other  
hand do not show up in all browsers not using gecko engine. I added  
them later to make Mozilla users a bit happier and to have a bit  
nicer navbar for them.


When the first CSS was introduced, I asked a long time before, to  
see, if all pages go well on my homepage. And nobody complained. It  
took months for me to notice that IE showed the first page wrong.  
Nobody complained at all and now the issue is gone a long time.


We can try to make quotes themselves a special style. The other ways  
around IE bugs is just to make IE-Pages and remove most of the CSS,  
because IE is endlessly buggy. Or someone creates a Javascript that  
works around the IE Bugs and is not seen by any other browser.


greetings

Jutta

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quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.12.2005 um 21:13 schrieb Richard Atterer:


committed, >80% of Internet users will _not_ see  as intended.


I think. less than 80% of the dwww visitors will use a browser not  
available on linux _and_ not working well. An much less will visit  
many of the pages with quotations. But I have found a js solution now  
and need people reviewing and comment it.


http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes.ie.html might  
look same with IE and other browsers, if Script is enabled.


If you want to have pages, always looking the same with ie, someone  
will have to volunteer spending time and meeting me in IRC testing  
pages.


greetings

Jutta


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Bug#338484: www.debian.org: Still a missing locale

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 09.01.2006 um 15:09 schrieb Eduardo Trapani:


The attached list of locales was not right.  Even though eo_EO is not
supported by glibc, it was being used by the esperanto pages.


looks like adding a line

eo_EO.UTF-8 UTF-8

to /etc/locale.gen

and calling locale-gen afterwords just helps.

The eo_EO file is already on Sarge systems but dpkg-reconfigure does  
not show it.


greetings

Jutta

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Aural CSS

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I am thinking about introducing aural CSS at the Debian website. Now  
as far as I know, only EmacsSpeak does support aural CSS.


Do you think, it would make sense to support aural CSS?
Would anybody like to volunteer testing the pages with aural CSS?

Jutta


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Re: Aural CSS

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.01.2006 um 15:01 schrieb Holger Levsen:


As I had to look it up anyway, here is a quote from
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/aural.html


Can you please point out, what you want to tell us with the quotation?

Jutta

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Re: Aural CSS

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi Holger!

Am 22.01.2006 um 15:56 schrieb Holger Levsen:

From your original post I had no idea what aural CSS is. I thought  
others

might also wonder.


Ah, okay. Then let me give some examples, how aural CSS tells the  
reader how to speak something:


We have Acronyms and abbreviations in the page text. With aural CSS,  
it can be deined, if Those are spelled out or spoken like a word. A  
DAM (Debian Accounts Manager) would be spoken as a word normally  
while "HTML" is spelled out.


There also can be added pauses and different voices and loudness can  
be applied.


And you are really right here: If aural CSS gets used by web sites  
and people write articles about that, there is a better chance that  
browser and screen reader programmers implement it well.


greetings

Jutta


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Use acronym tags

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I commtted the acronyms.wm in templates a while ago.

It is now used by me the first time to remove a validation error in a  
page, where  was used together with ID.


How are the acronmys used?

To include an acronym into your source, there must be two things:
A line
#use wml::debian::acronyms
and the acronym tag itself, here 

This will expand to

LUG

We also could use abbr that way,, but there arre two problems:
- - there is no clear definition what the difference between both tags is
- - One non-Linux Browser which Debian people want to be supportet does  
not support 


Hint for using acronyms directly (if not used often enought to  
include in acronyms.wml):

- - use the form above
- - do not forget the lang attribute
- - never use Ids instead of title

If the dicts were included in debian main pages, it would also be  
possible to link to there, to show more information and linked  
translations.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: webmirror.wml diff

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 14.02.2006 um 23:37 schrieb Gerfried Fuchs:


 Should we supress the addition of width="102" height="60" to the HTML
output?


Please do not remove the size! It is needed to display the image  
correctly and the browser will try to calculate the size itself if  
not present. That will give serious problems with rendering and  
layout issues.


greetings

Jutta

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Comments needed: quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 28.12.2005 um 01:01 schrieb Jutta Wrage:

I think. less than 80% of the dwww visitors will use a browser not  
available on linux _and_ not working well. An much less will visit  
many of the pages with quotations. But I have found a js solution  
now and need people reviewing and comment it.


http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/quotes.ie.html might  
look same with IE and other browsers, if Script is enabled.


If you want to have pages, always looking the same with ie, someone  
will have to volunteer spending time and meeting me in IRC testing  
pages.


Can some people please give comments on the Javascript solution  
repairing IE?


Is it appropriate to include js for that one browser in the debian  
www? Other browsers will not load the scripts as they are not that  
buggy.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Comments needed: quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.02.2006 um 10:27 schrieb Richard Atterer:

However, I have a problem with including obfuscated-source  
JavaScript on

the Debian website! :-/


I have no other idea. The IE7 scripts repair IE HTML and CSS support.

Either we care IE and use it or we do not. I do not see any other  
alternatives.


Greetings

Jutta

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Re: Comments needed: quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.02.2006 um 12:55 schrieb MJ Ray:


Also, where is the source code to
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/js/IE7_0_9/ie7-core.js ?


The homepage of the scripts is at http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/

Uncompressed source code of the scripts is there, too.

You are right with "the browser must be repaired" - but I think M$  
will not give any cent for that comment. So there are only the two  
alternatives I mentioned for us.



greetings

Jutta

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Re: Comments needed: quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.02.2006 um 18:22 schrieb Jens Seidel:


Maybe it's an option to add a header or popup window or something
similar when this browser is used:


That might be better. Quotes are not the only HTML/CSS-thing, IE does  
not understand. So Richards suggestion helps with _one_ of the  
problems only.


Related to the quotes, there is only Links, I know, not to understand  
 tags. And the script wil not help there.


I really do not think, it is necessary to re-invent the ie7 scripts  
for Debian. And for sure, that would be needed to solve _all_  
problems with IE. Beside that I am not willingly to spend any time on  
looking for side effects of Javascript which is in the webwml tree  
for all browsers.That will make my work more difficult and time eating.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Comments needed: quotes with other browsers

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.02.2006 um 17:41 schrieb Richard Atterer:


/* MSIE 6 does not support CSS attribute selectors like [lang=de],


That is not only used for quotes... There are many more things, IE  
does not understand or just make totally wrong. All that is in the  
script, I included in the example page and teh website copy on my  
homepage.


If it was only the quotes, the solution would be easy, yes. - But it  
isn't.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: www.debain.de

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.02.2006 um 20:37 schrieb cmIP84:

Hallo, ich wollte mal fragen ob es möglich sei ein inoffiezielles  
Forum für Debian auf ihrer Seite zu verlinken , um ganz einfach  
Bezugsquellen wenn Fehler/Probleme im deutschsprachigen bereich  
aufkommen sollten so schnell und so gut wie möglich zubehen.
This mailing list (debian-www) is English only. Beside that Debian  
has already its own mailing list for german users (see http:// 
lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/). To have web forums was  
discussed before but not decided yet.


Die Sprache dieser Mailingliste (debian-www) ist english.  Im Übrigen  
hat Debian schon eine eigene Mailingliste für deutschsprachige Nutzer  
(http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/). Die Einrichtung von  
Web-Foren wurde bereits diskutiert, ist aber noch nicht entschieden.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Comments on usability issues of w.d.o

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 14.02.2006 um 13:19 schrieb NAGY Viktor:


"Select a server near you" form

"Select a website
mirror near you".


I think, that is a good idea, but may be e bit long in translations...

Therefore I think it's not the best solution to put it at the top  
of the

home page and _every_ sub page.


Users have different entry pages.


We'd rather put it in a separate page,
and could add additional information on the location of the mirror
sites and on the quality of connection to them.


Then that page could be added to the menu at the left. But there  
isn't a menu on all pages.



Menu at left

I find it quite long. The readers might be annoyed because they  
have to
scroll for the navigation. We could hide the sub-items on the main  
page

and show them only after visiting a main item, or create dynamic
menus with layering technique.


We discussed already about the website structure. But that are just  
plans for now. Later it will be easy to have better navigation and  
sub main pages.


Some people need to work on an outline of the website which allows to  
get an overview and the possibility to reorder pages to get all that  
done.



Visit the Site Sponsor

If the mirror has no sponsor this link points to a completely empty
page. In this case the image shouldn't appear.


Hmm.. The pages are not created on demand. So a "no sponsor" page  
might be better in this case.



Search

"The Debian search engine has been disabled for now. We're working on
it." Are we really?  This message has been shown almost for a year  
(why

is the Last Modified date 2002 in the footer?) It's a shame on us.


So true, so true...


However, search with google is a viable solution. There's no need to
give the option for searching www, everybody searches www from google,


The option schould be removed. Two new options would be better:  
search lists.debian.org and search www.debian.org.



nobody does from d.w.o. I'd put a simple search entry field at the top
right corner of the pages (where everyone puts it),


Nobody puts direct google search at top of page. So I'd suggest to  
leave it where it is now until debian has its own search again.



which works with
google.  The current entry field at the bottom of the navigation menu
has several problems: lacks a label and a submit button and doesn't
work.


For sure the button schould be added there. But normally it just  
works on pressing return. Which browser?



Greetings

Jutta


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Bug#354432: www.debian.org: [debian-i18n] Incorrect Quote in paragraphs with different language

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 26.02.2006 um 10:42 schrieb Helge Kreutzmann:


for example in section "1: Was ist die GFDL?". The quote is in english
(starting with "The purpose of this License") but the german quote
signs are used.


I am working on blockquotes already. But there is time needed to  
collect the rules for all languages. And I am not sure, if it is  
possible to include all cascading rules without having css size explode.


German rule: Full quoted blocks (normally sentences, too) have to  
have the quotation marks of the language, the quotes block is in. In  
this case, the block is english and should have the english quotation  
marks around the block. Inside the block, english rules should count.


A compromise would be having english citations correctly quoted in  
all languages.


For German language a fix would be:

blockquote, class quote:German quotation marks around the block

blockquote, class quote, lang en: English quotation marks around the  
block

blockquote, class quote, lang en, quote: English quotation marks

Hm... I tried to find a fix already. But there is a selector problem.  
So "wontfix" is correct until all layout blockquote-tags are removed  
at the moment.


greetings

Jutta

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Blockquotes in web pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

First: I commited a new page with some notes about editing files. It  
is a draft currently and can be found at http://www.debian.org/devel/ 
website/htmlediting


Comments and additions are welcome.


Second: It was noted already a time ago, that the blockquote tag  
which is for longer citations is misused a lot. Now as noted in Bug  
#354432 there are problems with usages of  within blockquotes.


Further investigation showed up, that it is not possible to add a  
class "quote" to blockquotes containing real citations to solve that  
problem. None of the tried CSS selectors did work, if a language is  
added to the blockquote selector.


But the problem Helge noted out is to be solved, if all misused  
blockquotes are replaced by a centered div (class centerblock) and  
blockquote at its own (with and without lang attribute) can be used  
as selector for CSS.


There are 4030 occurences of blockquote in the web pages. These are  
spread over 659 source files. I created a list and changed some file  
not containing a citation already.


A list of files containig the blockquote tag is at http:// 
www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/blockquote.lst
Files already changed by me have "done" in the beginning of the line.  
Files which have citations in blockquote tag have a blockquote in the  
beginning of the line. The other files are ncot investigated until now.


Please have a look at the list and look, if there are any problems  
with the files already changed.
It also would be fine, if there are people to help to find those  
files to be marked as "blockquote", which means all blockquote  
occurences in these files contain a citation.


You may also feel free to include the author or source  of a citation  
in HTML tag , which is for this purpose.


Jutta

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Re: mirror size

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Am 27.02.2006 um 20:25 schrieb Adrian von Bidder:


which states 170G as mirror size.


I changed that for   - all languages.

Greetings

Jutta


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Re: Blockquotes in web pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 27.02.2006 um 22:57 schrieb Richard Atterer:


I have nothing to add to the content, so just a couple of small things
about the presentation:


Thanks. I have changed the page.

That's a lot. :-( Would it be possible to use WML to translate  


to a  on the fly while the HTML is generated? Or should this not
happen for all blockquote tags?


No, those blockquotes containing citations will remain. And no  
program can decide, if there is a citation or something else inside  
the blockquote. As you might have seen in the list, I tagged some  
lines already as real blockquotes.


There are 412 files left to examine right now.

greetings

Jutta

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Content negotiation - ICS Calendar files

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I noticed a probple with content negotiation on the event pages.

If I visit any link on http://www.nl.debian.org/events/2006/ I always  
get the ics file.


My browser has no preference prefering ICS instead of HTML, so it  
must be server side.


On my personal mirror for Debian web development, which has no  
special configuration, I get the HTML files.


Can anybody witrh access to one of the web servers please have a  
look, what may cause the ugly behaviour?


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Content negotiation - ICS Calendar files

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 04.03.2006 um 03:25 schrieb Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw):


That's strange, accessing the above link via Mozilla and
Mozilla Firefox (both from etch) show me the HTML. I tried using
www.nl, www.us, www.br, www.de and just www. All worked fine for
me.


That is because Firefox and Mozilla prefer text/HTML over ICS. The  
browser I used, where I can see the request, doen't negotiate such a  
preference. So the server decides.


Here is what Omniweb sends:

GET /debian/dwww/events/2006/0513-debianday HTTP/1.1|Accept:image/ 
gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, image/png, image/tiff,  
multipart/x-mixed-replace, */*;q=0.1

[..]
Camino sends:
GET /debian/dwww/events/2006/0309-cebit HTTP/1.1|Accept:text/ 
xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/ 
plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5


As you might see, Camino has page preferences, while Omniweb has not.  
Omniweb cares only about images and leaves it to the server to  
decide, what kind of pages to deliver.


So Omniweb sometimes gets and displays plain text insted of html from  
some servers, which is not a problem at all and wicht does not happen  
for Debian. But getting an ICS causes a download for either Safari or  
Omniweb and I cannot correct the URL in the URL field.


Okay, it is a bug in the browsers, too, that I cannot change that (as  
far as I know). But _no_ web server with normal web pages should  
prefer delivering ICS calendar files instead of HTML pages.


But seems, I can reproduce the behaviour on one server.

If I comment out the line

/etc/apache/mime.types:text/ 
calendarics icz


it works fine.

if I reorder the text/html and text/calendar lines nothing chages  
(wrong behaviour)
If I rename the text/calendar entry to something line text/aaa I get  
the html page
If I change the calendar line to get other file extensions I get the  
files with those extensions.


So it seems to be an Apache bug. It prefers calendar instead of html  
internally, maybe out of the alphabetically order. Something must  
tell Apache that an ics file has a higher media level.


If I follow the order at http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/content- 
negotiation.html it does not get to 8. (file size) as even a faked  
ics file larger than the html page is delivered with preference.


Using var files (Type-map) instead of MultiViews the problem could be  
solved easily by a preference:


URI: foo.jpeg
  Content-type: image/jpeg; qs=0.8

I Tried to find other solutions, but seems there is no way out  
currently but using var files or these:


1. either comment out the text/calendar line in the server  
configurations.
2. or renaming the ics file in the webwml tree to something like foo- 
calendar.lang.ics and make the links match.


any other ideas?

greetings

Jutta


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Quotation marks in title

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

The polish translators (and others already, maybe) have problems with  
quotation marks in page titles, which are used as .


I think, it might be a good idea to insert a bit code that converts q  
tag for titles eiter to " " or « ».


These marks will always be working for  the page title and the   
heading is correct for the current language. Advantage is that the  
tranlators have only one place to translate the heading.


Is that okay?

greetings

Jutta



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Re: Quotation marks in title

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 04.03.2006 um 19:43 schrieb Frans Pop:


On Saturday 04 March 2006 19:29, Jutta Wrage wrote:

I think, it might be a good idea to insert a bit code that converts q
tag for titles eiter to " " or « ».



Is that okay?


If you mean " " or « » depending on language used, I don't see why  
not.

Probably same for h2, h3, h4?


We cannot have typograhic correct quotation marks there but inside  
the headings (by css).


And  is not allowed for page title (which is defined in the   
of a html file and not in the body.


Therefor we need either titlles different from  id containing  
quotes or just an automatic replacment (easier to do if ASCII) of   
in page header.


Other solutions could be replacing with page charset, but that will  
not help as it is not possible to have correct quotes in all charsets  
- - that was already discussed as reason to use css to create the  
correct quotation marks.


greetings

Jutta



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Re: Error in debian.css

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 05.03.2006 um 12:29 schrieb Johan Haggi:


--- webwml/english/debian.css
+++ webwml/english/debian-with-patch.css
@@ -306,7 +306,6 @@
 #righthalfcol {
margin-left: 50%;
width: 50%;
-   overflow: hidden;
 }


I commented it out for now. Can you give me your firefox version?
And no, it does not really break anything to remove it, only less  
"nice".


greetings

Jutta


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Congrats to translators for valid pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I think, it is worth a not that the validation results of debian web  
pages get better and better. I noticed that when I did not work on it  
for some weeks. The number of new validation errors per days has  
decresed a lot.


Beside the chinese pages (the build problem on my computer presists)  
that are not fully converted yet, we are down to less than 1 out of  
1 invalid pages which is less than 0.01 %.



Here the latest local validation result of last night:

Files   valid   invalid %invalid

 All files  21072   21070   2   0%


This does not mean to become lazy.

- - There are still problems for translators, if the initial page is  
not wellformed or has already errors in it.
- - Another problem might be translators working on machines wich have  
other charset definitions than their language pages are built in.

- - last not least there are still tidy warnings


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Quotation marks in title

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 06.03.2006 um 04:16 schrieb Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw):


I think, it might be a good idea to insert a bit code that converts q
tag for titles eiter to " " or « ».


Ok. :)


What this in basic.wml and header.wml:
- -  $(BARETITLE:*Debian -- )$(title)
+  $(BARETITLE:*Debian -- ){: [[s//"/g]] [[s/<\/q>/"/g]] $ 
(title) :}


I tried that for the polish page releases/sarge/index.pl.html and it  
works


Greetings

Jutta




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Re: Congrats to translators for valid pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 07.03.2006 um 01:06 schrieb Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw):



\o/ Whee! :-)


More Whe:

With the patch for  tags in titles we would be at ZERO not  
validating pages - But still the chinese pages left. :-(


I really would like someone helping me to get the chines pages build  
on my computer (PPC Machine).


greetings

Jutta

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Bug#215430: chinese pages don't build on non-i386

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

The final solution for this bug:

1. fix Bug#355842 for zh-autoconvert
2. remove binary chinese/bin/autogb from webwml cvs tree
3. patch chines/Make.lang:

Index: Make.lang
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/chinese/Make.lang,v
retrieving revision 1.39
diff -u -r1.39 Make.lang
- --- Make.lang   15 Aug 2005 02:21:38 -  1.39
+++ Make.lang   8 Mar 2006 09:13:46 -
@@ -16,7 +16,7 @@
U8TOB5 = $(BIN)/u8tob5
U8TOGB = $(BIN)/u8togb
# B5TOGB = ( cat - | $(B5TOU8) | $(U8TOGB) )
- -B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
+B5TOGB = /usr/bin/autogb -i big5 -o gb
TOCN = $(BIN)/tocn.pl
TOHK = $(BIN)/tohk.pl
TOTW = $(BIN)/totw.pl

greetings

Jutta

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intl/zh versus international/Chinese

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Now that I have a repaired autogb the chinese pages Build again and I  
got the first problem:


The line that makes a symlink from international/Chinese was removed  
from the Makfile years ago. But the pages there still build with  
links containing intl/zh. I cannot find anything creating the link  
and the links do not work on local build.


Links are build that way: Debian €€€å p¹º

CHINESE is in many .wmlrc files:

- -D CHINESE~intl/zh

If I am not missing something and the links working on debian website  
are due to an old existing symlink or a rewrite rule: How to solve  
the problem?


greetings

Jutta

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Patch for Chinese Debian web pages - Commit on sunday

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Okay, here we are with a big patch that addresses the folowwing issues:

1. Chinese Page in international did not use the same layout as the  
other pages
2. All links in international/Chinese pointed to not everywhere  
existing intl/zh directory

3. Chinese pages did not validate as HTML strict.

The cvs diff is at URL http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/ 
chinese-20060311.diff
The pages can be seen at URL http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/ 
international/Chinese/


The plan ist to commit the changes on sunday evening (UTC). Minor  
problems can be solved later, too, I think.


Please see also URL http://people.debian.org/~alfie/validate/ for the  
current validation errors.


greetings

Jutta




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Re: Congrats to translators for valid pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Here are the latest validation results with chinese pages (which  
still need cvs commit):


Files   valid   invalid %invalid
   validate-errors-banners  72  72  0   0%
  validate-errors-Bugs  121 121 0   0%
validate-errors-CD  243 243 0   0%
   validate-errors-consultants  973 973 0   0%
 validate-errors-devel  115211520   0%
   validate-errors-distrib  161 161 0   0%
   validate-errors-doc  144 144 0   0%
validate-errors-events  147314730   0%
validate-errors-international  452 452 0   0%
 validate-errors-intro  193 193 0   0%
 validate-errors-legal  20  20  0   0%
 validate-errors-logos  15  15  0   0%
  validate-errors-MailingLists  113 113 0   0%
validate-errors-mirror  99  99  0   0%
  validate-errors-misc  131 131 0   0%
  validate-errors-News  488848880   0%
  validate-errors-partners  48  48  0   0%
 validate-errors-ports  488 488 0   0%
  validate-errors-releases  446 446 0   0%
   validate-errors-rootdir  231 231 0   0%
  validate-errors-security  918791870   0%
 validate-errors-users  107010700   0%
  validate-errors-vote  342 342 0   0%
   validate-errors-y2k  32  32  0   0%

 All files  22094   22094   0   0%

In work:
Currently I am still working on the blockquotes
Sometimes I find time to fix some tidy issues

Some of the next steps:
- - - Finding colour scheme
- - - better solution for rtl languages to make layout switchable and  
lists still working

- - - completing documentation (CSS and HTML)
- - - menus for all pages which need them
- - - something like breadcrumbs
- - - more accessibility including hotkeys
- - - polishing tables (make schemes to pick from, so that they all fit  
to the page layout)
- - - look if we can make some more usage of wml features like the  
built in toc

- - - ...

Enough to do for the next year. ;-) People volunteering to help with  
the above list are very welcome. Help can be anything like helping  
with editing, submitting ideas, how to change things, tell, where the  
the problems for translators are, ...


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Patch for Chinese Debian web pages - Commit on sunday

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 11.03.2006 um 18:10 schrieb Jens Seidel:


Attention: Before you commit this you must be sure that the build host
www-master (runs Sarge) supports this. Does this work only with the  
bug fix

you requested so long? Do you have a test case?


It is not needed to submit the change of Make.lang. But somebody  
might look, if zh-autoconvert is installed on the build host, then  
the i386 binary in the webwml tree can be removed. Autogb from zh- 
autoconvert will run on i386 machnines. The problem ist only on ppc  
machines and maybe other non-i386 (missing correct exit code). But in  
my opinion the binary should be removed from the webwml tree as soon  
as possible. There is no source code for it available and therefore  
the binary should not be there and the build of pages depending on  
its existence/functionality.


It may be possible for an admin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to  
update
this package but it should not contain too many not yet well tested  
changes.


As said before: the normal package can be installed, but the patch to  
the Makefile can be applied later.



-Âà´«¡A½Ð¥ý q¾\¤¤¤å p¹ºªº\
+Âà´«¡A½Ð¥ý  
q¾\¤¤¤å p¹ºªº\


Since you replaced $(CHINESE) by $(HOME)/international/Chinese it  
may be possible to
remove the definition of CHINESE as well (didn't found it in your  
patch). Or

is it still used (grep -r CHINESE .)?


The definition is in the .wmlrc files in many languages. The diff is  
made only on chinese and the .wmlrc files can be changed _after_ the  
changes are submitted.


greetings

Jutta



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tidy-warnings, here name attributes

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

With now all pages valid HTML it might be time to get back to the  
tidy warnings.


Most of them are in devel/people.$lang.html.

I did not find any reference to them, so it migth be no problem to  
change the content of the attribute to something valid (in this case  
eliminating the whitespaces).


Does anybody know, if the anchors are referenced from somewhere  
outside? They would still point to the page but not to the name.


Same problem persists for CD/releases/index.


greetings

Jutta




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Re: Regarding debian support websites list

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 08.03.2006 um 17:40 schrieb gg gg234:


I am not sure who is responsible for editing this page.


There is nothing on the site about authors and a responsible person/ 
group. I visited some of the articles and what I found was just a  
collection copy and paste from other sources - eg. the Debian  
reference (which can be found in the newest version at http:// 
qref.sourceforge.net/).


So I am not sure (after looking into the page source), if it is not  
yet another hit-my-adds-page. Does anybody have more Information  
about that site?


greetgins

Jutta

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Bug#357171: www.debian.org: people.names contains invalid characters inside name attributes of anchors

[Jutta Wrage]

Package: www.debian.org
Severity: normal
Tags: patch


Tidy is not happy with the name attributes used in people.$lang.html.

Name attributes cannot begin with numbers and cannot contain several
characters.

As I did not find any reference to the anchors, I'd suggest to change
the name attributes to something valid. The aplied Patch fpr people.pl
deletes whitespaces and replaces other characters by Underscores.
In the begining a "MAINT_" is added to have no numbers or underscores
there.

I used tr because it is faster than other substituting.


Jutta


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-powerpc
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)
--- people.pl.orig  2006-03-15 23:45:45.049695336 +0100
+++ people.pl   2006-03-16 01:52:56.375432896 +0100
@@ -60,14 +60,20 @@
   my $userid = $People{$names}{email};
   $userid =~ s/@.*//;
   if (!$ppl_ref{lc($userid)}) {
- print "";
+ my $linkname = $userid;
+ $linkname = "MAINT_" . $linkname;
+ print "";
  $ppl_ref{lc($userid)} = 1;
   }
 }
if ($ppl_ref{lc($lastname)}) {
print "$lastname";
} else {
-  print "$lastname";
+ my $linkname = $lastname;
+ $linkname =~ tr/ //d;
+ $linkname =~ tr{/'+&\;#///}{_};
+ $linkname = "MAINT_" . $linkname;
+  print "$lastname";
$ppl_ref{lc($lastname)} = 1;
}
if ($lastname ne "Wookey") {

Trigger force rebuild - broken pages uk, sv and tr

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

How can we trigger a force rebuild for ukrainian, swedish and turkish?
There are broken html pages. Any knowledge about a problem on the  
build machine?


See:

http://people.debian.org/~alfie/validate/

It must have happened about two days ago, I think. But as the source  
files did not change the broken pages will not be rebuild automatically.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Various build errors (Was: Re: Problem with link)

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 13.03.2006 um 21:56 schrieb Jens Seidel:


2)
Another problem is in korean/doc/index.wml around line 85 since it  
is a mixture
of both Korean and English. I can remove the English part but I'm  
not sure

whether the file is fully translated.


I deleted the beginning of the english file in the middle of the  
korean file. Page builds and looks complete now but there are some  
english sentences in it.


greetings

Jutta

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Semantic HTML of devel/debian-installer/errata

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I am planning to change the errate page to make the list of known  
problems a definition list instead of an unordered list. Semantical  
it is a definitions list: term: error, definition: meaning of that  
error.


Any objections?

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Semantic HTML of devel/debian-installer/errata

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.03.2006 um 23:11 schrieb Frans Pop:


No (as also said on IRC).


Done

greetings

Jutta
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Mass editing and xhtml vs. HTML

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

As I have seen that a few pages use xhtml closing tags, a note about  
editing those files with vi and making mass changes (all languages  
for one page at the same time).


for example I want to take the  tag.

Sometimes it is necessary to replace it by somehting like ,   
or whatever to make a page which is not layouted by , $nbsp; and  
others. Replacing something like  and  is quite easy and  
quick using cw (change word) in vi(m). But if there are files in  
between using  this will not work. Time to edit files  
increases a lot.


You might think: heh, she can use just ":1,$s/old/new/g"
But that will not work as not all pages are equal and I may replace  
something not to be replaced and have a corrupted page then. So most  
times I have to walk with search through each file and just type  
"n ." or "n n" ..., but "n ." (find next and do the same) will not  
work if I cannot do the same replacement as in the file before, or  
the same search does not work.


This all makes me walk through the files much more often than it  
would be necesary with plain HTML tags. And there is a much more  
manual editing.


The other problem with xhtml ("_must_ be valid _before_ putting  
online") delivering as xml+xhmtl instead of text/HTML and so on have  
been noted out by me already a time ago. Beside that it would be a  
step backwords to move to xhtml transitional from HTML strict now and  
I do not see any plans and timelines for getting all pages in all  
languages move to xhtml.


So where is the sense of all this replacing  by  in only a  
few languages? Do you know, if those are still correct xhtml for  
later version? Or will you replace html by xhtml of same age in years?


All the efforts made by me in the last year to get HTML strict pages  
would have to be made for strict xhtml, too. But not many people  
cared about all those font settings and other things still coming up  
in new created pages.


My goals:
- - Having pages easy to translate/edit
- - having pages strict DTD using CSS
- - Acessibility

Therfore "strict" wins over "xhtml transitional"

Please take it as a wish to make my work easier and less time comsuming.

greetings

Jutta

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Re: Mass editing and xhtml vs. HTML

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 19.03.2006 um 19:13 schrieb Denis Barbier:


Please give examples, I did not understand your point at all.


One example ist the debien-installer/erata page

I converted the list to a definition list as it is one semantically.

Entries where:


Definition term here (known issue)
definition here


It is easy to replace all  by  and all  by , but it  
makes more work if some files have  instead as one cannot use  
"change word" there, which results in extra work for those files  
containing the  .  would not be valid.


repeat search in vim: n
repeat action: .
This still works on multiple files, if edited with */devel/debian- 
instealler/errata.wml eg. one action forward through all files, next  
backwords, next forward... until done. build, review and validate,  
commit.
This is quite fast and I edited a lot of files (2000?, more?) this  
way always having to spend more time, if these  and other xhtml  
tags where there in one of the files.


I think all languages should have the same markup beside a few  
language specific things.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: http://www.debian.de/News/2006/20060316.de.html ist broken

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Daniel is complaing about the missing german version of the news. It  
had an build error whch is repaired now. The page will be available  
in a few hours.


eine Deutsche Version (http://www.debian.de/News/ 
2006/20060316.de.html).


Danke für die Meldung. Beim Erstellen der Seite ist ein Fehler  
aufgetreten, der nun beseitigt ist. Die vermißte deutsche Version  
wird in ein paar Stunden verfügbar sein.


Gruß

Jutta


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Re: http://www.debian.de/News/2006/20060316.de.html ist broken

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 21.03.2006 um 09:04 schrieb Jens Seidel:

Nevertheless he also mentioned that Debian pages are now per  
default English.
I can confirm this and doubt that it's a problem with a languages  
setting
since it worked in the past. Was there any change on the server  
recently or

may this be caused by the simple build error?


The link points to page_name and not to page_name.de.html So, if the  
translation is not build, the news link from main page goes to  
english version. The main page is build first and at that time the  
source file for the news is found but nothing will now about the  
build error later. If a page is not new, the old version will be  
there still. In this case it was the very first revision of the  
translation, that did not build.


BTW: The de-lu in content negotiation should not be a problem.

greetings

Jutta

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Re: http://www.debian.de/News/2006/20060316.de.html ist broken

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 21.03.2006 um 21:52 schrieb Jens Seidel:


So it's a konqueror bug!? OK, I will report it soon ...


Isn't content negotiation configurable?
Whatever de-version I ask for, I always get the correct page. But  
maybe, it is another Konqueror-has-a-page-already-in-its-cache-problem.


HEAD -H "Accept-Language: de-at" http://www.debian.de
200 OK
Connection: close
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:28:04 GMT
Accept-Ranges: bytes
ETag: "256c03c-4242-c213ff00"
Server: Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) DAV/2
Vary: negotiate,accept-language
Content-Language: de-lu
Content-Length: 16962
Content-Location: index.de.html
Content-Type: text/html
Last-Modified: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:51:08 GMT
Client-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:28:04 GMT
Client-Peer: 141.76.2.5:80
Client-Response-Num: 1
TCN: choice

look, that you have something like this in your configuration:
Accept-Language: de, en;q=0.94
de-de would also work, as I get the correct page with Safari (which  
has only de-de)


You may try http://www.debian.de instead, maybe you can betray  
Knoqueror, if it thinks, the page in cach is okay.


greetings

Jutta


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Old page on search.debian.org

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.03.2006 um 08:58 schrieb Jens Seidel:

For you language problem: make a bug report. I have no clue, why it  
does not work as Safari and Omniweb (both using KHTML engine, too)  
work well.


PS: Jutta, http://search.debian.org/ still uses the old GIF header  
instead of
CSS. I know that this service is disabled but it is still reachable  
from
www.debian.org. I'm sure you know about this and it's not very  
important, just

a little bit inconsistent ...


Same for db.debian.org and lists.debian.org. Only that one  
responsible for nm.debian.org sent me a request to apply the changes.  
This might be a real problem, if we find a nice new layout. which  
cannot be applied to the pages/cgis still html transitional.


For search.debian.org and lists.debian.org I do not know where the  
repository is.


greetings

Jutta



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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 29.03.2006 um 11:15 schrieb Alexander Rødseth:


Happy to help, ;)


If you want to help get the cvs tree and make patches and examples.  
You can find more about helping at http://www.us.debian.org/devel/ 
website/. Feel free to make examples for adjusted css. You may also  
submit a working CSS stylesheet to this maling list, so that we could  
test it somewhere.


About the rounded corners: the are gecko-only and inserted to have  
the round corners from the old layout, which was using tables and  
images. Either they will be removed or replaced by CSS3-corners, when  
CSS3 is implemented in browsers. I am not sure, if people like me to  
remove them just now. ;-)




greetings

Jutta

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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 30.03.2006 um 16:37 schrieb Alexander Rødseth:

I felt the idea of making the rounded corners beautiful instead of  
ugly was a contribution in itself.


At first the corners are already CSS. I can play a bit with the  
border-radius. But more it not possible in my point of view, if we do  
not want static box sizes. Posting the link to layouts was not really  
helpful for me at all. Maybe, a new layout will not have rounded  
corners at all. But until ha new layout can be applied to all pages,  
there is other work to be done first.


I understand the culture of the meritocracy, where every suggestion  
are responded to with a "do it yourself",


That is not my thing normally. But your message was not really  
helpful at all. Maybe, the corners look more ugly on your computer  
than on my. Then a screenshot might have been helpful. Many people  
did not notice the switch to css instead of using table and fixed  
size images for the navbar. So it cannot be that worse. ;-)


If it was up to me, I would introduce CSS-corners right away, even  
if the fallback was square corners. Everything is better than  
jagged edges. :-)


I am really not sure, if gecko based browsers will display CSS3  
corners differnent from the current CSS corners with -moz-border- 
radius in the CSS.


Doing it the same way as the majority of pages with rounded corners  
(images in the corners, without jagged corners), is also a  
possibility.


Not an option, if you want to display the navbar well with font-sizes  
from very small up to extremely large.
For larger text boxes images are an option, for small ones like the  
blue ones in the navbar, not.


BTW: look at the page with the free layout, choose larger font  
setting in your browser and see how that  page breaks totally while  
the debian pages still are readable with large fonts. I invested  
several hours to find another solution for the navbar with the same  
look and feel as the old one with images. But everything did either  
not work at all or was totally broken with large fonts.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 30.03.2006 um 21:39 schrieb Florian Ludwig:

I just recognize that there are smooth round corners at http:// 
lists.debian.org/ already ...oO( or should i buy new glasses )


If you are reading the list regularly, you may have noticed, that  
lists.debian.org still using images in the navbar was marked as bug  
already. The font is not resizable by the visitor.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: help

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 30.03.2006 um 03:16 schrieb Matt Kraai:


I'd like to go for it,


Please do.


Forgot to anser yesterday:

1. ist it possible to include more than one week?
2. Is it possible to honour the warning the feed validator gives?  
Some clients may be confused.
3. In my point of view the feed should be included in the header of  
the weekly news pages. If everything is ready and the feed itself  
builds fine I can help including it into the page header.


Note: the feed is supposed to work for the translated weekly news, too.

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 31.03.2006 um 10:59 schrieb Alexander Rødseth:

Here's a page a just made about rounded corners, which includes a  
screenshot of how jagged the corners look at my computer:

http://www.pvv.org/~alexanro/rounded.html


1. Tables are for tabular data! Use semantic markup!
2. We have had such corners in a table layout, which took a lot of  
hours unpaid work to be removed.

3. your example goes totally jagged with large font setting.

You critizism is about a bit out of the way as nobody is payed her  
for several hundreds of hours a year.


I personally am convinced that having page working for _everyone_ is  
much more importand than image corners with invalid HTML. And no. if  
they would look that ugly you try to make us believe, someone would  
have noted out that a year ago already.


Not an option, if you want to display the navbar well with font- 
sizes from very small up to extremely large.
For larger text boxes images are an option, for small ones like  
the blue ones in the navbar, not.



Why isn't it an option?


Because the pages are for _everyone_ and have not to be broken for  
people with bad eyes.
If you do not understand, why breaking accessibility is not an  
option, I cannot do anything by that.


We have to care that 22,000 page work with the layout. That needs  
several hundred vountary work a year. So it might be enough for you:  
we will have another solution for the corners, if ther is one, which  
is really an option without breaking accessibility.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 31.03.2006 um 22:55 schrieb Florian Ludwig:


rounded corners could work nice with font large font settings.


With css that works well only with larger boxes. I have spend several  
days on searching a solution for the navbar last year, before I  
decided to take the current one. But


I think its good idea to give the debian website a new look. (this  
edges aren't relay important, aren't they?) Take a look at the  
"new" python website [1] for example. The design just look...  
"modern" - and.. yes.. the debian page looks much better with large  
fonts :p


Yes, python.org looks modern. But if I increase font size in my  
browser the content in the middle of the page goes behind the right  
box - hidden.


I have collected some ideas for Debian some time now. But nothing  
makes me believe "This is a Debian page". The major problem is the  
page head. On the other hand many people aske me: Why do you want to  
change that? It is nice now.


Perhaps it would be a good idea  to ask a bit around - for people  
for who this is done and ask them, what they like about the page  
and what they don't like at the page it is now.


That is the problem: some want a new design, some want it like it is.  
Major problems are in the usability (links, page menus...) But that  
cannot be solved with a new design.



ps. where can i find a up to date ToDo?


my personal next steps (in work):
- - http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/2006/03/msg00122.html
Debian wiki
- - http://wiki.debian.org/WebDesignToDo with a link for the packages  
ToDo list

Debian Website
- - http://www.debian.org/devel/website/todo

BTW: here a new example of a changed navbar:
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/dwww/index.de.html (navbar  
changed and Hx underlined)

compare with:
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/dwww/index.en.html (removed  
round corners)


Any css file with suggestions is saved and I have had put some online  
already (now removed due to a total clean-up in www directory for the  
moment).


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Visual problems on the front page

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 01.04.2006 um 01:27 schrieb Richard Atterer:


For example:
Rounded corners: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/


Works for boxes only, not usable for the buttons in the navbar


Graphical navbars: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/


This are usable nice as tabs (round corners only top, not at bottom.  
Can be used with changed design.


Hm, yes - but IMHO the lack of a good navigation menu on the Debian  
website
is a much more severe problem than whether some rounded corners are  
jagged

or not, or whether the design looks "cool".


That is the problem... And we still need an outline of the page  
structure (not that on the file system) to create a good navigation.  
Who volunteers to start with it?


Part of my academic research is about web usability. It /might/ be  
possible

for me to arrange a medium-scale usability evaluation (~60 student
participants) for the Debian website. This will result in a list of
problems which need to be fixed.


60 are not really representative. But they may give us ideas, what is  
needed. - Where the typical Debian user/admin is not a student, I think.


However, this kind of thing only makes sense once the obvious  
problems have

been fixed. Jutta is currently mostly alone with this immense task, so
progress is slow despite the large amount of time she invests in the
website.


Every help is welcome, help can also be investigating some oft the  
open problems, testing pages with different browsers, finding people  
who test the accessibiliy (especially comparing how the content is  
presented)...


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Debian Changelog Webpage/design - changelogs.debian.net

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 06.04.2006 um 00:27 schrieb Richard Mittendorfer:

"If you want a plain text changelog as opposed to the marked up  
version

that is now returned (for example, for program input) just ensure that
you set an Accepts: header that doesn't contain text/html and  
you'll get

text/plain output (without any markup)."

Sorry for the noise. :-)


No sorry needed. There is obviously a problem. I get the text/plain  
version with some browsers and the html version with some others. The  
text version is in the graphicals browsers as unreadable as in W3M  
(Joey Hess pointed it out). both versions seem te be send as text/html.


The accept-header for text/plain is text/plain and _not_ text html  
and the content is assumed to be delivered as text/plain, too.


So there are two things to do:

- - repair the HTML header
- - make the packground not scroll to be static in the browser window  
but be repeated or just left out.


Beside that, I have the impression, that debian-www people have no  
access to the machine or code. So there might be a contact address on  
the pages. Referring to the contact page at www.debian.org from  
changelogs.debian.net might be not very helpful. So the question: who  
feels responsible to redirect problems with www.debian.net or the  
wiki to the right persons?


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Misformatted Webpage

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 07.04.2006 um 16:50 schrieb Denzel Turner:



   I am a *nix Newbie and noticed your webpage:
http://packages.debian.org/stable/, was formatted incorrectly near the


Looks like your browser cannot handle the css correctly, if you see  
the rigth column below the left one, do you? But maybe, it is solved  
by a little changed in the CSS which will not hurt.

You may also use Firefox which is more standard compliant.

Please have a look at the page tomorrow again.

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Anchors in the Debian Organizational Page?

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 13.04.2006 um 09:35 schrieb Steve Kemp:


  I was going to file a bug report and make the changes
 myself until I looked at the source and saw that the
 page is heavily WML dependant.


I think there are already bug reports about missing page menus. For  
the organisation page it is fixed now.


Thanks for reporting.

Jutta

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Re: Proposed plan (and license) for the webpage relicensing

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 19.04.2006 um 13:12 schrieb Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña:


e) from here on access to the CVS of the website should be given after
   clearly stating (and getting and agreement) that any and all  
contributions
   to the CVS, unless specified otherwise with clear (c) statements  
in the

   code, will be (c) SPI and will be considered "work under contract"


No here, too. Many of us will really get in problems with a phrase  
"work under cantract".


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Proposed change to bugs.css for text-wrapping in blocks

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

Am 25.04.2006 um 06:32 schrieb Jeremy Seitz [foz]:


+pre {
+   white-space: pre; /* CSS2 */
+   white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; /* Mozilla */
+   white-space: -hp-pre-wrap; /* HP printers */
+   white-space: -o-pre-wrap; /* Opera 7 */
+   white-space: -pre-wrap; /* Opera 4-6 */
+   white-space: pre-wrap; /* CSS 2.1 */
+   white-space: pre-line; /* CSS 3 (and 2.1 as well, actually) */
+   word-wrap: break-word; /* IE */
+
+}


beside that is not valid [1], there is another problem:

In The first line you tell the browser not to wrap at box borders  
(which is the normal behaviour for  tag by design and meaning of  
). In the next lines you try to tell some browsers not to behave  
as assumed for  and the former statement "white-space: pre".


Using  in HTML means: print exactly as is and not different.  
This also means copy and paste program code poems or whatever will  
result in a nearly exact copy of the code original put into the HTML,  
if your browser and the editor handle pasting well. So using   
and telling the browser not to honour that at all by css is a  
contradiction in terms.


There might be another solution in presenting the bug reports, but  
using  and CSS telling the browser not to use  at all is  
not the right way, I think.


[1] See URL http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/wrap/wrap-pre.html  
for an example and the jigsaw valitation results for it at URL http:// 
jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http:// 
www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/wrap/wrap-pre.html



greetings

Jutta

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Bug#364913: www.debian.org: Vote-Pages should be build with more templates (easier translating/maintaining)

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 28.04.2006 um 18:32 schrieb Tobias Toedter:


 If you think this might be a
good idea, I could help Helge to set up some templates for the vote  
pages.


I've already contactet Helge as I have done the latest vote template  
changes. I will change the templates and existing pages as soon as  
have been able to talk to the secretary.


Any help on the issue is welcome, though.

greetings

Jutta



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Re: Copyright files not locatable

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 17.05.2006 um 08:58 schrieb Tushar Mathew:


We had downloaded a number of packages but
found their copyright files missing.Some of the packages that we came
across are listed below.



libpisock8 0.11.8-10


As you are referring to Sarge packages, I looked for some random  
copyright files missed by you. Looks like you are in error. Here an  
example:


dpkg -c /var/cache/apt/archives/libpisock8_0.11.8-10_powerpc.deb
[...]
- -rw-r--r-- root/root   464 2004-06-06 17:44:26 ./usr/share/doc/ 
libpisock8/copyright

[...]

The package is installed, which results in:
ls -al /usr/share/doc/libpisock8/copyright
- -rw-r--r--  1 root root 464 2004-06-06 17:44 /usr/share/doc/ 
libpisock8/copyright


So I cannot see any problem at all, while I am not sure, what you  
downloaded from which ressource and how you discovered that there  
might be copyright files missing.


BTW: This mailing list is about Debian Web pages and not about  
package development. If you discover problems with packages, please  
refer to the Debian bug tracking system and give some more  
information in the bug report. The bug tracking system is linked  
directly from the debian homepage and can be found at http:// 
www.debian.org/Bugs/. But in this case I cannot see a bug at all.



greetings

Jutta

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Forgot to update translation revisions (version bump)

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

I am sorry, to have forgotten to bump versions on the latest commits.  
Is there a quick way to find the source files else than walking  
manually through my latest commits? - Something like searching for  
outdated translationns and comparing them to my commits?


What a mess, I am really sorry about that.

greetings

Jutta


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Re: Suggestions For The Website

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 24.06.2006 um 11:29 schrieb Richard Atterer:


Instead of this:

  a:hover { color: #F000FF; }
  a:visited { color: #800080; }

the CSS should be like this:

  :link:hover { color: #F000FF; }
  :visited:hover { color: #800080; }


I reverted that change, becaus it causes other problems. nad the  
first form we are using now is the suggested way to do things.


If you want the place where the link goes to highlighted or not is a  
personal view. Many people do not see it as a problem at all. But  
making ugly CSS not working on all the other pages/Code is not the  
way to resolve a "problem" for a few users.


For the web page code:

We will nevder have well formed code on automatically created web  
pages, which collect several files to make one page. The code in the  
source files should be readable though. But kailander is not  
referring to the source.


greetings

Jutta


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Re: Suggestions For The Website

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 24.06.2006 um 23:26 schrieb kailander:

Now:


http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/redirect.pl";>






Valid HTML

Your suggestion:

http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/ 
redirect.pl">

  
  
  Select a server near you


Not valid HTML.

input elements that are hidden should be directly inside the form,  
not inside an element of the form

input tag should end with " /" like that 


The page header says "HTML 4.01" which uses exactly our code.

If you suggest changes, please note, that we will not do any changes,  
that make the pages not validate any longer. If IE does not display  
the HTML corectly, please submit a bug report to the browser  
manufacturer.




just like  and 
i suggest to put   instead of blank space


Her the spaces are not necessary at all. It depends on browsers, how  
they display it. a   increases the pages size for nothing and  
makes code more unreadable in my eyes.






Unfortunately Jutta, who has been doing most of the CSS changes  
lately,

doesn't test on MSIE at all. :-/


That is not correct completely any longer. And beside that I test in  
many other browsers, not mentioned here. Most important rendering  
engines are KHTML and Gecko engine as they are used on Unix and Linux  
machines most times. Beside that, it is important that the web pages  
display fine in Lynx and other common text browsers. Whatever changes  
are done, these browsers have to work fine.


This means: Finding a workaround for IE (I suggested to include the  
IE7 Javascript for repairing pages for IE), cannot mean breaking  
pages for other browsers at all. So testing a change in IE means ti  
have a look, if pages are still valid and work in all other browsers.


Blindly applying changes suggested by somebody will break the pages.  
In the case above we will get 22,000 validation errors.



But if i tested it on both of them, why dont you make the necessary  
changes ?

Besides, you wrote on the "How is www.debian.org made" the following :


Hope you understand now.


How not to help

[Q] I want to put fancy web feature into www.debian.org, may I?



[A] No. We want www.debian.org to be as accessible as possible, so

* no browser specific "extensions".
* no relying on images only. Images may be used to clarify, but  
the information on www.debian.org must remain accessible via a text- 
only web browser, like lynx.


Well, if a feature like #outer>#inner in the css doesn't work in  
iexplore, doesn't it mean that it is a browser specific "extension" ?


No. It is valid CSS and any browser should know, what it means. If  
not, we can find another valid way, maybe.


Anyway, i am very glad that i can participate in the development of  
this website.


Please read the pages about how to get the cvs tree and try to work  
with it. On the other hand you may accept, that there are some rules  
for the pages. We are not doing pages for W? users only, but mainly  
for Debian Users and any changes must be tested, before applying.


If you find changes, that are valid, please post the diffs to the  
list, so that we can have a look at them and apply them, maybe.


Greetings

Jutta

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Re: Suggestions For The Website

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 26.06.2006 um 12:55 schrieb NAGY Viktor:

I think that the current solution is typographically a mess. It's  
not just
the mixed upper and lower cased words, it's the bulk list of words  
written
in different alphabets.  I propose to insert separators (bullets or  
bars)

between the language names.


You are right. There should be a better solution. I was already  
thinking af working on that, before. If nodody else comes out with a  
nice example I will try to make one next weeks, I think.


For those, who do not know, how to make CSS for it: A picture would  
be okay as an example, too.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: RSS Feed for DWN?

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 26.06.2006 um 20:58 schrieb Martin Schulze:


http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/dwn.de.rdf
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/dwn.en.rdf
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/dwn.fr.rdf
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/dwn.it.rdf
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/dwn.zh.rdf


Obviously it was changed a bit since march. Can we have the anchors  
(#1, #2 and so on) in the dwn? Not the jumps go to the page only.


Thought of something like *. [1]

[1] Note: names and ids cannot have a number at the beginning and  
they have to be unique in one page.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: Suggestions For The Website

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 26.06.2006 um 12:58 schrieb kailander:


Is not valid HTML
I am sure its valid xhtml, and since you want to smoothly change to  
xhtml, and follow all the recommendations, whats the problem?


Can you please point us to the source for that information? "I am  
sure" is not enough. The XHTML definition is mostly covered by the  
HTML 4 rec. THis means that differences are liste in xthml1 rec and  
forms are not listed there as ther is not difference between both, if  
you do not include xml.


The pages are deliverd as text/html and have HTML in page head. That  
means, the _must_ be _valid_ HTML 4.01.


And about xhtml validation using validator.w3.org, please read the  
note there. You have to use an xml validator to validate xhtml.


The debian pages have currently

* Upper case tags on many pages
* missing end tags, where that is not allowed when moving xhtml

They are nearly all valid and display fine in browsers. If there  
really is something wrong in displaying we will change that if we can  
reproduce it and there is a solution. Having all or nearly all pages  
out of more than 22,000 is really a hard job, but we got it. And we  
won't like to change that.


So please tell me any reason why we should use something, that make  
the pages invalid? I have spend hundreds of hours to make them all  
valid last year. And all the others helped, to get the breakthrough  
moving from transitional to strict with CSS.




greetings

Jutta

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Access-keys in Debian pages

[Jutta Wrage]

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Hi!

At Linuxtag I talked to some people engages in Linux accessibility.

Including the access-keys from IBM-rocommendation seems not to be the  
right way. One of the blind people (who noted out that the pages now  
are much better than one and a half year ago) told me either not to  
use access-keays at all or to use numbers only and not letters.  
Letters can conflict with their software keys anf make the system  
unusable for them,


Maybe, we should put the idea back for a while?

greetings

Jutta


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Debian Dictionary

[Jutta Wrage]

Hi!

On the Debian Webpages I found this:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/dictionary/index.html

It seems to be seven years old but still empty.


For the D-W women I have made a little Perls-Script, that is creating 
three sorts of Debian related dictionaries:


- DWARD - arcronym dict
- bilingual dictionaries with Terms from dward and others
- monolingual debian-glossaries with explanations
(everything als dictd file and Webpage)

You may try a start at 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/dward.var
You may also try 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/dward.de.html for the German 
version, as it is filled a bit more with links (more content in source 
files). You also may look around in that directory as there is no 
index.html.


Is this something for debian-www? It would not be a problem to create 
html fitting into the Debian website, if someone loads everything up 
and tells me how the pages (or parts) have to look like.


BTW: I am not a DD.

cu

Jutta
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Outdated page was: Debian Dictionary

[Jutta Wrage]

Am Montag, 20.09.04 um 21:57 Uhr schrieb Jutta Wrage:


On the Debian Webpages I found this:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/dictionary/index.html

It seems to be seven years old but still empty.


As nobody answered to my question, I try again. Maybe my first mail was 
overlooked.


I contacted the address on the empty dict page some weeks ago and got 
no answer.
So as it die debian-www related, I think here is the right place to 
discuss. Or must I file a bug against the Web page first?


As there is only this empty dictionary on the Debian Web site, I 
created a dictionary, which could be used on Debian pages.


You may try a start at 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/dward.var
You may also try 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian-women/dward.de.html for the 
German version, as it is filled a bit more with links (more content in 
source files). You also may look around in that directory as there is 
no index.html.


greetings

Jutta

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