Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Robert]

I just saw that The Rock is definitely off the ballot...

On 10/10/22 11:48 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Rory,

How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is 
indifferent to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares 
about himself. He doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees 
with him.


He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who 
disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during 
campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or 
against him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death 
threats from his followers. He's the least loyal person in office.


The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK 
Jr is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind 
control, microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than 
low. Anyone with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his 
supporters snap out of the hypnosis soon.


You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because 
he's a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality 
like trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by 
God, I don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some 
things like a normal person should.


2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  
wrote:


But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it 😊.

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. 
Not much.

Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Ye is still an option, right!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 3:52 AM, Robert  wrote:
> 
>  I just saw that The Rock is definitely off the ballot...
> 
> On 10/10/22 11:48 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> Rory,
>> 
>> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
>> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
>> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 
>> 
>> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who disobeys 
>> him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. One 
>> mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
>> targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's 
>> the least loyal person in office.
>> 
>> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
>> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is 
>> still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, 
>> microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with 
>> a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the 
>> hypnosis soon.
>> 
>> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's a 
>> decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers 
>> do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I don't praise 
>> him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a normal person 
>> should.
>> 
>> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  wrote:
>>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things 
>>> for it 😊.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Rory
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother under 
>>> the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
>>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>> 
>>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
>>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
>>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my 
>>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 
>>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs 
>>> in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper 
>>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly 
>>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. 
>>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off 
>>> the deep end.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large 
>>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by 
>>> groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil 
>>> fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving 
>>> towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It 
>>> isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible. 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more concentrated 
>>> in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is 
>>> targeted at a group that is different form you.  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at 
>>> school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.
>>> 
>>> If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial 
>>> issues in school then that does make sense.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Chuck McCown  
>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
>>> To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response. 
>>> 
>>> Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Chuck McCown via AF
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
>>> 
>>> To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> 
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling the 
sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rory,
> 
> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 
> 
> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who disobeys 
> him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. One 
> mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
> targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's 
> the least loyal person in office.
> 
> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched dozens 
> of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is still 
> alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, microchips 
> in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with a brain 
> sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the hypnosis 
> soon.
> 
> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's a 
> decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers 
> do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I don't praise 
> him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a normal person 
> should.
> 
> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway  wrote:
>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things for 
>> it 😊.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother under 
>> the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>> 
>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>> 
>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> 
>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my 
>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 
>> Model S and love both.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs in 
>> America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" 
>> on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly educated" 
>> some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You can be 
>> Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep 
>> end.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large 
>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by groups 
>> with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel 
>> energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving towards EVs 
>> a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't surprising 
>> that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more concentrated 
>> in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is 
>> targeted at a group that is different form you.  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:
>> 
>> Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at 
>> school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.
>> 
>> If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial 
>> issues in school then that does make sense.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Chuck McCown  
>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
>> To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response. 
>> 
>> Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Chuck McCown via AF
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
>> 
>> To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> 
>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The question was as follows:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little 
>> tim

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you
is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
anymore.

I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
how much of an evil person he is.

I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
trump.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling
> the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Rory,
>
> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to
> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>
> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against
> him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his
> followers. He's the least loyal person in office.
>
> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched
> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr
> is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control,
> microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone
> with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of
> the hypnosis soon.
>
> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's
> a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like
> trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I
> don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a
> normal person should.
>
> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things
>> for it 😊.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>>
>>
>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother
>> under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the
>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>
>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll
>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion.
>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed
>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs
>> in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper
>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult.
>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off
>> the deep end.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large
>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>>
>>
>>
>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by
>> groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil
>> fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
>> towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It
>> isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever
>> possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received 
at least one shot.  

So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those vaxxed, 
that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 60% of 
the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed add to 
that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was only 
10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have received 
at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is 
old, from one year ago:


I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers are 
probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  I 
don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that eventually 
will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all vaccines are 
experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an MRNA compound 
created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a good friend, anti 
vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  Has had it for 
most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually has covid.  

I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 




From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Chuck, 

The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of 
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you is 
believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at vaccine rates 
between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all kids are being 
groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that identify as a furry, 
that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and more. I've talked to enough 
anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe anymore.

I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or 
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump won 
or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag with a 
trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American that is. I 
can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see how much of an 
evil person he is.

I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are as 
low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have been 
indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about trump. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling 
the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.


  Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl  wrote:


 
Rory, 

How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to 
most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He 
doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. 

He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who 
disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. 
One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the 
targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's the 
least loyal person in office.

The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched 
dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is 
still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, 
microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with a 
brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the hypnosis 
soon.

You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's 
a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers 
do. I hav

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
understand the word's meaning.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>
> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
> received at least one shot.
>
> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
> [image: image]
>
> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
> from telling parents by the school district.
>
> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
> denying he actually has covid.
>
> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>
> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
> Huffpo.
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> Chuck,
>
> The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number
> of people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill
> you is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
> vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
> kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
> identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
> more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
> anymore.
>
> I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
> "trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
> won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
> with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
> that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
> how much of an evil person he is.
>
> I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
> as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
> been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
> trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are
>> sampling the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rory,
>>
>> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent
>> to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
>> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>>
>> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
>> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
>> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against
>> him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his
>> followers. He's the least loyal person in office.
>>
>> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched
>> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr
>> is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so you are 
calling lent?!?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like 65 
bucks a turd. 
Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:

  If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't believe 
him, you are indoctrinated...


  On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:

I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide the 
nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his administration's 
policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the benefit. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

  Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



  But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things 
for it 😊.





  Rory



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



  Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother 
under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.

  Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
_republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

  The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily 
for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S 
and love both. 



  If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest 
IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper 
trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly 
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You 
can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the 
deep end.



  On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson 
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a 
large anti-EV contingent on the right:



- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed 
by groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil 
fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving towards 
EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't 
surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   



- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more 
concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when 
it is targeted at a group that is different form you.  



On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:

  Well the original description was “what is important to be taught 
at school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.

  If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on 
racial issues in school then that does make sense.





  From: Chuck McCown  
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



  I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” 
response.  

  Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  



  From: Chuck McCown via AF 

  Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: Chuck McCown 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



  The question was as follows:



  “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or 
too little time teaching about the following topics:”



  I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.  

  The source is as follows: 

  The American Family Survey 2022.  It conducted online to a match 
sample on gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022.  The sample size is 
3,000 and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%.  





  There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa.  Evergreen 
Sta

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing them 
to be reunited “  
If that was true then that is evil.  

I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated yes. 
 That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate 
NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are farmed 
out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you are 
describing to me...  

So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the white 
house.  And only on liberal news media.  


From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

  69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received 
at least one shot.  

  So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:


  I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

  In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers are 
probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  I 
don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that eventually 
will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all vaccines are 
experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an MRNA compound 
created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a good friend, anti 
vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  Has had it for 
most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually has covid.  

  I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

  He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 




  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Chuck, 

  The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of 
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you is 
believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at vaccine rates 
between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all kids are being 
groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that identify as a furry, 
that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and more. I've talked to enough 
anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe anymore.

  I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or 
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump won 
or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag with a 
trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American that is. I 
can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see how much of an 
evil person he is.

  I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are as 
low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have been 
indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about trump. 

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as bel

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Steve Jones]

i just wanted to show off my shitter.

Its sitting on a road in a subdivision in rural IL. If anybody needs to
drop a deuce.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so
> you are calling lent?!?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like
> 65 bucks a turd.
> Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
> It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:
>
>> If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't
>> believe him, you are indoctrinated...
>>
>> On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>
>> I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide
>> the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his
>> administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the
>> benefit.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things
>>> for it 😊.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother
>>> under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the
>>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>>
>>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll
>>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion.
>>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
>>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed
>>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest
>>> IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper
>>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
>>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult.
>>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off
>>> the deep end.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large
>>> anti-EV contingent on the right:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by
>>> groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is fossil
>>> fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
>>> towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It
>>> isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever
>>> possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more
>>> concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above,
>>> when it is targeted at a group that is different form you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at
>>> school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.
>>>
>>> If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial
>>> issues in school then that does make sense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
>>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <
>>> af@af.afmug.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little”
>>> response.
>>>
>>> Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The question was as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too
>>> little time teaching about the following topics:”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question.
>>>
>>> The

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Probably an appropriate destination for political threads...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 11:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

i just wanted to show off my shitter. 

Its sitting on a road in a subdivision in rural IL. If anybody needs to drop a 
deuce. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Gheeze Steve, I was expecting you to throw gasoline on the fire  so you 
are calling lent?!?

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:49 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  Heres a pic of my porta potty. Its use rate currently has a value of like 65 
bucks a turd. 
  Also, here is a pic of the water main we located for the water company.
  It was a fine Columbus day, as are many during the holiday season of lent.

  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 11:18 AM Robert  wrote:

If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't believe 
him, you are indoctrinated...


On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:

  I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide 
the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his administration's 
policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the benefit. 


  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.



From: AF  On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great 
things for it 😊.





Rory



From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother 
under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.

Sent from my iPhone



  On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:

   the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the 
_republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?

  On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll 
reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. 
There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily 
for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S 
and love both. 



If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the 
lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan 
Klepper trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how 
"poorly educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the 
cult. You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone 
off the deep end.



On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson 
 wrote:

  My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a 
large anti-EV contingent on the right:



  - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being 
pushed by groups with an economic interest in an issue.  In this case it is 
fossil fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving 
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected.  It isn't 
surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible.   



  - Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals are more 
concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when 
it is targeted at a group that is different form you.  



  On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM  wrote:

Well the original description was “what is important to be 
taught at school”.  In that context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on 
racial issues in school then that does make sense.





From: Chuck McCown  
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too 
little” response.  

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.  



From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political



The question was as follows:



“Do you think schools today spend too much, t

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Bill Prince]

I don't see no steenking pictures.


bp


On 10/7/2022 9:34 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I've actually been working these days so havent had time to get out 
the old shit pot stir stick.
I did however rent my first porta shitter for a job and it got 
delivered to the site today. It smells so good in there, like a little 
slice of heaven by a corn field. So I got a jar of pickles for the 
work crew. May bring extra coffees and some tacos tommorrow


On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 9:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I think it's quiet because people left because of the brushfires.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
*Sent: *Friday, October 7, 2022 11:03:15 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Political

Been too quiet around here.  Thought I would try to ignite another
brushfire.
This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it.
Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school.
image

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
would allow them to be reunited:
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
I will dig out references to at least one of them.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing
> them to be reunited “
> If that was true then that is evil.
>
> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated
> yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.
>
> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>
> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
> what you are describing to me...
>
> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>
> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>
> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>
> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
> understand the word's meaning.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>
>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>> received at least one shot.
>>
>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>> [image: image]
>>
>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>
>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
>> denying he actually has covid.
>>
>> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
>> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
>> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
>> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>>
>> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
>> Huffpo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number
>> of people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill
>> you is believe

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Robert Andrews]

Not sure if he did a book, I was referring to his statement that he 
released...


On 10/11/22 09:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Haven’t read that one.  Ordering it now.
Yeah, the books that I have read that were written by his insiders all 
paint a uniform picture of him.  He does not seem able to absorb expert 
opinion and synthesize outputs from it.
I feel sorry for those generals that simply got brushed away when he 
didn’t like what they were telling him.  I know one general personally 
and he is one of the brightest persons I have ever met.  I presume you 
cannot become a general without having some brains.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:16 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't 
believe him, you are indoctrinated...


On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to 
divide the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his 
administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs 
the benefit.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it 😊.

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. 
Not much.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

*Sent:*Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

*To:*dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'Anim

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

As an FYI, I consider myself politically independent. Over my lifetime, I
have voted Republican more often than Democratic for president.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
> anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.
>
> The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
> would allow them to be reunited:
> https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy
>
> I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
> Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
> he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
> guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.
>
> P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy
> to look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
> oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
> I will dig out references to at least one of them.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever
>> allowing them to be reunited “
>> If that was true then that is evil.
>>
>> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were
>> separated yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?
>> No.
>>
>> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>>
>> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
>> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
>> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
>> what you are describing to me...
>>
>> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>>
>> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>>
>> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>>
>> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
>> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
>> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
>> understand the word's meaning.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>>
>>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>>> received at least one shot.
>>>
>>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>>
>>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>>> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
>>> denying he actually has covid.
>>>
>>> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
>>> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
>>> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
>>> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>>>
>>> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
>>> Huffpo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Actually NPR is about the only thing I listen to.  

I don’t doubt it happened.  I don’t doubt that any random us govt bureaucracy 
would have also screwed it up that bad.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending 
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that 
would allow them to be reunited: 
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what 
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he 
is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that 
is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to 
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). 
If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig 
out references to at least one of them. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing 
them to be reunited “  
  If that was true then that is evil.  

  I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated 
yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

  Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

  The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate 
NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are farmed 
out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you are 
describing to me...  

  So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

  This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

  Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

  Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the white 
house.  And only on liberal news media.  


  From: Chuck Macenski 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

  If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 


  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have 
received at least one shot.  

So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:


I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers 
are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  
I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that 
eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all 
vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an 
MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a 
good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  
Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually 
has covid.  

I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid 
enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of critical 
thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.  Who knows 
what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.  

He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or 
Huffpo. 




From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Call Sign Chaos

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Not sure if he did a book, I was referring to his statement that he
released...

On 10/11/22 09:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Haven’t read that one.  Ordering it now.
Yeah, the books that I have read that were written by his insiders all 
paint a uniform picture of him.  He does not seem able to absorb expert 
opinion and synthesize outputs from it.
I feel sorry for those generals that simply got brushed away when he didn’t 
like what they were telling him.  I know one general personally and he is 
one of the brightest persons I have ever met.  I presume you cannot become 
a general without having some brains.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:16 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't 
believe him, you are indoctrinated...


On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to divide 
the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his 
administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs the 
benefit.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it 😊.

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. Not 
much.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I hate partisan politics.  
I have some litmus issues:

I want to be able to buy a gun if I want.
I don’t think it is OK to kill a late term baby for convenience.
I am OK with guest workers, the more the merrier.  
I am OK with using public lands to bury fiber and drill oil wells.  

I am not OK with defunding police, or being called a racist just because of the 
level of my melanin.  

People have told me I am a libertarian.  Perhaps.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 12:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

As an FYI, I consider myself politically independent. Over my lifetime, I have 
voted Republican more often than Democratic for president. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

  There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending 
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

  The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that 
would allow them to be reunited: 
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

  I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what 
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he 
is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that 
is a more favorable way to look at it.

  P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to 
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). 
If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig 
out references to at least one of them. 


  On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing 
them to be reunited “  
If that was true then that is evil.  

I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated 
yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to 
upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are 
farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you 
are describing to me...  

So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the 
white house.  And only on liberal news media.  


From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 


On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

  Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

  69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have 
received at least one shot.  

  So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those 
vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 
60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed 
add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was 
only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have 
received at least one shot.  That is not a large percentage of anti vax  to me. 
 This is old, from one year ago:


  I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce 
subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.  
Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk about 
things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long play 
grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are rare but 
they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.  She is 
forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling 
parents by the school district.  

  In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers 
are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority.  
I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects that 
eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey, all 
vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say when an 
MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...  I have a 
good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it.  
Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and denying he ac

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

[Nate Burke]

I changed the RB4011 to a RB2009, and tried downgrading the RB4011 to 
ROS6.49.6 from ROS7.5 and it's doing the exact same thing.  I've tried 
setting up an EoIP Tunnel across the F425, and changed the Router ID in 
OSPF.  Still doing the exact same thing.  As soon as I enable the F425 
link, the Entire route table will flap between the Powerbridge and the 
F425 even though the powerbridge is a cost of 20 higher than the F425.  
If I disable the F425, everything is stable over the Powerbridge.  Not 
sure what else to try.


On 10/6/2022 4:22 PM, Robert Haas wrote:

Make sure you haven't duplicated your router id.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

I have a site with a RB4011 connected via an old M5 Powerbridge, and an EPMP 
PTP425.  The 4011 is running ROSv7, everything else is on ROSv6. Connecting to 
a CCR1036 and CCR1009 on the other ends of the radios.

Everything was working perfectly for several months until a storm came through, 
and now the F425 OSPF Session will not stay stable. The OSPF Weights are set to 
prefer the F425 link.  The OSPF neighbor never goes down, Adjacency/state never 
change, but the RB4011 will update it's entire routing table about every 5 
seconds and flap back and forth between the Powerbridge and the F425.  The 
remote routers never update the route to the 4011, it is stable over the F425.  
If I disable the
F425 neighbor, everything is stable over the powerbridge.  If I disable the 
Powerbridge neighbor, the router will lose connectivity for a second every 10 
or 15 seconds, like it loses it's routing table.

There is no packet loss across the F425 link, and it will Tik to Tik bw test at 
100MB sync no problem and no packet loss.  I've even tried changing ports on 
the 4011, plugging the F425 into a completely separate OSPF router on the 
remote end.  I've also put the traffic through a VLAN on the F425 to see if the 
F425 was doing something weird with the packets.  The F425 radios on both ends 
have been power cycled.  I've also updated ROS to the latest 7beta, and no 
change.

I'd think this is an issue with ROSv7/6 since the routing table keeps updating, 
but the powerbridge link is always fine, so it feels like something with the 
F425.  Especially since it happened after a storm.
But at the same time, how could a failure of the F425 be affecting OSPF?  When 
I do OSPF Logging on the 4011, nothing is looking out of the ordinary.  I guess 
I could try physically changing the 4011, but I've never had a failure like 
that before.

Mainly I just want to vent that I'm probably missing something stupid, I just 
haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Brian Webster]

I call bull on all immigration issues. Congress has the power to create/change 
laws and set quotas at any time. They can change bad laws if they really care 
about issues. There is no benefit in a politician actually solving problems. It 
doesn’t create perceived problem to then run around and raise money for their 
war chest. How is it that lame ducks can still fund raise and why the hell do 
people contribute to that fund? If you are worried about them being illegals 
then legalize what they are doing. If there are no Americans to do all these 
jobs, then legalize those who will do the work so they can come to the country 
legally. The same politicians who are complaining and throwing mud at the 
others are the same ones who have the power to change the laws. If they all 
believe their cause is just and things are so bad, then they should be able to 
pass laws that will override a veto.

 

Again I call BS on ALL politicians from both parties that say they want to do 
something about the problem. I wonder if they make them legal the politicians 
are worried that they will be able to get in and become part of the social 
security system and be eligible when they retire? Can the US afford that? Maybe 
right now they have to pay in but can’t be part of the system or build up a 
retirement? Maybe the system is more broke than they are letting on? Maybe 
right now SS is just a legal Ponzi scheme and they don’t want or can’t afford 
to take on new liabilities like people who will eventually want to collect a 
retirement after paying in all those years? I don’t know but I certainly don’t 
understand why the politicians who gripe about what is being done can’t come 
together and legislate a solution…….. They do wield the power, do they even 
teach that is schools anymore? They need to bring back school house rock or 
something to teach this basic stuff…..

 

Brian

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Macenski
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 2:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

 

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending 
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that 
would allow them to be reunited: 
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what 
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he 
is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that 
is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to 
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). 
If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig 
out references to at least one of them. 

 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing them 
to be reunited “  

If that was true then that is evil.  

 

I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated yes. 
 That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.  

 

Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?  

 

The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate 
NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They are farmed 
out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like what you are 
describing to me...  

 

So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?  

 

This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.  

 

Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???

 

Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the white 
house.  And only on liberal news media.  

 

 

From: Chuck Macenski 

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

 

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no 
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand 
the word's meaning. 

 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.  

 

69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received 
at least one shot.  

 

So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those vaxxed, 
that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 60% of 
the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not vaxed add to 
that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was only 
10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of conservatives have received 
at least one shot.  That is not a large 

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

[Darin Steffl]

You've confirmed you don't have the same loopback and router ID on both
sides? This behavior sounds like that's the issue. They need to be
different.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 5:25 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I changed the RB4011 to a RB2009, and tried downgrading the RB4011 to
> ROS6.49.6 from ROS7.5 and it's doing the exact same thing.  I've tried
> setting up an EoIP Tunnel across the F425, and changed the Router ID in
> OSPF.  Still doing the exact same thing.  As soon as I enable the F425
> link, the Entire route table will flap between the Powerbridge and the
> F425 even though the powerbridge is a cost of 20 higher than the F425.
> If I disable the F425, everything is stable over the Powerbridge.  Not
> sure what else to try.
>
> On 10/6/2022 4:22 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
> > Make sure you haven't duplicated your router id.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:58 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out
> >
> > I have a site with a RB4011 connected via an old M5 Powerbridge, and an
> EPMP PTP425.  The 4011 is running ROSv7, everything else is on ROSv6.
> Connecting to a CCR1036 and CCR1009 on the other ends of the radios.
> >
> > Everything was working perfectly for several months until a storm came
> through, and now the F425 OSPF Session will not stay stable. The OSPF
> Weights are set to prefer the F425 link.  The OSPF neighbor never goes
> down, Adjacency/state never change, but the RB4011 will update it's entire
> routing table about every 5 seconds and flap back and forth between the
> Powerbridge and the F425.  The remote routers never update the route to the
> 4011, it is stable over the F425.  If I disable the
> > F425 neighbor, everything is stable over the powerbridge.  If I disable
> the Powerbridge neighbor, the router will lose connectivity for a second
> every 10 or 15 seconds, like it loses it's routing table.
> >
> > There is no packet loss across the F425 link, and it will Tik to Tik bw
> test at 100MB sync no problem and no packet loss.  I've even tried changing
> ports on the 4011, plugging the F425 into a completely separate OSPF router
> on the remote end.  I've also put the traffic through a VLAN on the F425 to
> see if the F425 was doing something weird with the packets.  The F425
> radios on both ends have been power cycled.  I've also updated ROS to the
> latest 7beta, and no change.
> >
> > I'd think this is an issue with ROSv7/6 since the routing table keeps
> updating, but the powerbridge link is always fine, so it feels like
> something with the F425.  Especially since it happened after a storm.
> > But at the same time, how could a failure of the F425 be affecting
> OSPF?  When I do OSPF Logging on the 4011, nothing is looking out of the
> ordinary.  I guess I could try physically changing the 4011, but I've never
> had a failure like that before.
> >
> > Mainly I just want to vent that I'm probably missing something stupid, I
> just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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