I call bull on all immigration issues. Congress has the power to create/change laws and set quotas at any time. They can change bad laws if they really care about issues. There is no benefit in a politician actually solving problems. It doesn’t create perceived problem to then run around and raise money for their war chest. How is it that lame ducks can still fund raise and why the hell do people contribute to that fund? If you are worried about them being illegals then legalize what they are doing. If there are no Americans to do all these jobs, then legalize those who will do the work so they can come to the country legally. The same politicians who are complaining and throwing mud at the others are the same ones who have the power to change the laws. If they all believe their cause is just and things are so bad, then they should be able to pass laws that will override a veto.
Again I call BS on ALL politicians from both parties that say they want to do something about the problem. I wonder if they make them legal the politicians are worried that they will be able to get in and become part of the social security system and be eligible when they retire? Can the US afford that? Maybe right now they have to pay in but can’t be part of the system or build up a retirement? Maybe the system is more broke than they are letting on? Maybe right now SS is just a legal Ponzi scheme and they don’t want or can’t afford to take on new liabilities like people who will eventually want to collect a retirement after paying in all those years? I don’t know but I certainly don’t understand why the politicians who gripe about what is being done can’t come together and legislate a solution…….. They do wield the power, do they even teach that is schools anymore? They need to bring back school house rock or something to teach this basic stuff….. Brian From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Macenski Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 2:28 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point. The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that would allow them to be reunited: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I guess that is a more favorable way to look at it. P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind, I will dig out references to at least one of them. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: This is the part I have trouble with: “with no intention of ever allowing them to be reunited “ If that was true then that is evil. I just have a hard time that ever happened like that. They were separated yes. That there was an intention of a permanent separation? No. Who wanted to make the separation permanent? And why? The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to upstate NW last week. Those kids are separated from their parents. They are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area. Sounds like what you are describing to me... So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it? This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”. Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK. ??? Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!! But only when republicans are in the white house. And only on liberal news media. From: Chuck Macenski Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not understand the word's meaning. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left. 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have received at least one shot. So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would be 60% of the conservatives. And that means all libs were vaxed. Libs not vaxed add to that 60% number. In polls separating blues and red vax rates there was only 10% difference between them. So probably 65-70% of conservatives have received at least one shot. That is not a large percentage of anti vax to me. This is old, from one year ago: image I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools. Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children. To even talk about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids. So yes, a long play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts. They are rare but they are happening. One of my daughters teaches jr high science. She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented from telling parents by the school district. In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation? 4th? 3rd? Anti vaxers are probably second deviation. So, yeah, not really fringe but in a minority. I don’t get them at all. They are all about latent side effects that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine. Hey, all vaccines are experimental and have side effects. Wonder what they say when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday... I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about dead from it. Has had it for most of the year. Still and anti vaxxer and denying he actually has covid. I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants. He seems incapable of critical thinking. But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum. Who knows what he really thinks. He plays for the ratings. He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or Huffpo. From: Darin Steffl Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political Chuck, The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe anymore. I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or "trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see how much of an evil person he is. I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about trump. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below. You are sampling the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote: Rory, How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him. He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his followers. He's the least loyal person in office. The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control, microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of the hypnosis soon. You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a normal person should. 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote: But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things for it 😊. Rory From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump. He would toss his mother under the bus. I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. Not much. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the _republican_ party is what sets them apart. Does AOC vilify Biden? On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote: The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both. If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end. On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right: - A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an issue. In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is a trillion dollar industry. The world is moving towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the industry expected. It isn't surprising that wrenches are thrown into the works whenever possible. - Most current EVs are expensive. Money and liberals are more concentrated in urban areas. It is easy to believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a group that is different form you. On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Well the original description was “what is important to be taught at school”. In that context, the chart made no sense at all. If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little time is spent on racial issues in school then that does make sense. From: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political I left out an important detail, that graphic was the “too little” response. Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News. From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political The question was as follows: “Do you think schools today spend too much, the right amount or too little time teaching about the following topics:” I don’t consider that an ultra inflammatory question. The source is as follows: The American Family Survey 2022. It conducted online to a match sample on gender, race, age and education Aug. 8-15, 2022. The sample size is 3,000 and the overall margin of error is +- 1.9%. There is an ultra liberal college up near Olympia Wa. Evergreen State College. They actually have a faction that teaches that you cannot trust science because it teaches concepts that are counter to postmodernism. The extreme left has embraced a fiction that does not stand up to scientific scrutiny. So the extreme left and the extreme right both don’t trust science, but for different reasons. So an ultra liberal might also say, we reject the science of statistics and samples and surveys because they just make up imaginary numbers... right Error! Filename not specified.‘' In other words, if you don’t believe the results of a survey (or an election, which really is also a survey) you just reject it out of hand, don’t believe it, it is flawed... ??? From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2022 11:57 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: 'Chuck McCown' Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Political Interesting. I would think nearly 99% of people would think “Math” and “Science” should be taught in school, so there must be some kind of relative ranking to come up with those percentages. I don’t believe for a minute that only a bare majority of any political party thinks science is important. I’d also guess there was some colorful to the phrasing of the survey questions. If they asked “Should students be taught to respect people of all races” the percentages would be high across the board. You’d have to phrase it in some inflammatory way to get that spread. Anyway it’s cute, but I have questions about the methodology used to come up with those numbers. I wonder if the methodology is “let’s make up an imaginary number”. -Adam From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, October 07, 2022 12:03 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political Been too quiet around here. Thought I would try to ignite another brushfire. This graphic explains America and what is wrong with it. Asked of all Americans what is important to be taught at school. Error! 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